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(IGN)   Nintendo: That's a nice "Let's Play" video you have up there on YouTube. It would be a shame if someone were to insert ads with all the revenue going directly to us   (ign.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, YouTube, Nintendo  
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4747 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 May 2013 at 12:49 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



121 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-05-16 12:56:20 PM  
Is THIS a scandal?
 
2013-05-16 12:57:48 PM  
I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.
 
2013-05-16 01:00:31 PM  
Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-16 01:00:32 PM  
I don't understand this ads in youtube concept. Everyone is smart enough to use adblock plus, right?
 
2013-05-16 01:01:57 PM  

FutureWars: I don't understand this ads in youtube concept. Everyone is smart enough to use adblock plus, right?


That was my response. "YouTube has ads?"
 
2013-05-16 01:02:05 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


I'll throw one on every now and then for background noise when I'm doing something else.  Usuaully with a game that I'm interested in but not interested enough to buy.
 
2013-05-16 01:02:38 PM  

Inigo: Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

[i.imgur.com image 500x345]


I'm okay with this.
 
2013-05-16 01:06:05 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


They have their uses but not many. For example, yesterday's Crusader kings 2 thread reminded me that I wanted to give it another try, but I am just too dumb to understand the game without having my hand held or watching someone play it.

Or, like my buddy who is too pussy to actually PLAY amnesia so he just watches others play it LOL
 
2013-05-16 01:10:46 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


I don't understand it myself, but I love Let's Plays. I wish I could explain it to you, but I just find other people playing games to be interesting/funny. There's a lot of crap out there, though, there's no denying it. Good let's players make it interesting, bad let's players are just "here's something you could do yourself, lulz."
 
2013-05-16 01:15:41 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


I had an ex who did this. I didn't understand it then, but I thank her for many assists while playing BioShock and RE5.
 
2013-05-16 01:16:13 PM  

master of unlocking: FutureWars: I don't understand this ads in youtube concept. Everyone is smart enough to use adblock plus, right?

That was my response. "YouTube has ads?"


You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that
 
2013-05-16 01:18:58 PM  
Yes, yes it does.
 
2013-05-16 01:19:12 PM  

Theaetetus: Inigo: Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

[i.imgur.com image 500x345]

I'm okay with this.


Then there won't be videos featuring Nintendo games, at least on the bigger channels. The bigger channels are jobs for people, it's how they make a living. They'll just avoid Nintendo games. I mean, if that's what Nintendo is going for, it makes sense. It's just kind of strange, because a lot of video game producers either don't care or actively encourage it, since Let's Plays don't usually have negative impacts on game sales and sometimes have positive impacts. Valve and Blizzard I know specifically allow it. Notch (Minecraft) does, as well (Amusingly, one of the Youtube networks, Machinima, tried to get Notch to give them a cut of game sales because their videos helped Minecraft get a bigger audience. Notch laughed in their face).
 
2013-05-16 01:21:46 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


Some reasons for watching lets plays:
a) seeing if a game is worth playing in the first place by watching someone else play (since you can't rely on publicity/reviews, and no one makes demos any more)
b) seeing how to get through a part you're stuck on, or easter eggs you missed
c) seeing a game not available on a platform you own
d) humorous/informative commentary

I've ended up buying a couple of games after watching lets plays, particularly Dark Souls.
 
2013-05-16 01:23:19 PM  

Theaetetus: Inigo: Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

[i.imgur.com image 500x345]

I'm okay with this.



It's a lose-lose scenario  for Nintendo though. The creators of current videos will just remove the original and chop it up into smaller chunks that fall below Nintendo's threshold. People are already used to "lets play" videos being in sets, so they aren't going to be particularly turned off by making larger sets of shorter clips.

So now Nintendo won't get the revenue, and they lost goodwill towards people who were actually playing their games and increasing awareness.
 
2013-05-16 01:26:40 PM  
Reason #74235671 why Big N sucks.

/Did you know that Sega and NEC ENDORSE both emulation and ROMs, so long as the game is not available on physical media for a current console? (Sonic and Phantasy Star are the exceptions, however.)
//MS has even pulled a Sega fandom move: Build a functionally 100% working XBox emulator and MS will BUY IT from you and pay you a royalty on it.
 
2013-05-16 01:26:58 PM  
For people that don't understand, even non-painters watched Bob Ross paint.
 
2013-05-16 01:29:54 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Some reasons for watching lets plays:
a) seeing if a game is worth playing in the first place by watching someone else play (since you can't rely on publicity/reviews, and no one makes demos any more)
b) seeing how to get through a part you're stuck on, or easter eggs you missed
c) seeing a game not available on a platform you own
d) humorous/informative commentary

I've ended up buying a couple of games after watching lets plays, particularly Dark Souls.


Dark Souls 2 can't come out fast enough.  I'm sitting in a complete black hole of gaming atm waiting for something to hold my attention.
 
2013-05-16 01:32:54 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: I've ended up buying a couple of games after watching lets plays, particularly Dark Souls.


Dark Souls is an awesome game. Unfortunately, the last software update for PS3 made all the soul markers (and your green soul thingy from when you die) on my screen disappear, which sort of breaks the game.

/got halfway through Blighttown before I read that the Rusted Iron Ring makes the swamp at the bottom much easier
//now I have to backtrack back up to the Firelink Shrine, which is proving more difficult than you'd think
///stupid monsters standing at the top of ladders and narrow walkways...
 
2013-05-16 01:35:21 PM  

IrateShadow: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

I'll throw one on every now and then for background noise when I'm doing something else.  Usuaully with a game that I'm interested in but not interested enough to buy.


I prefer Longplays to Let's Plays. I also use them for background noise as a means of drowning out my tinnitus.
 
2013-05-16 01:38:15 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


Because I can't buy and play every game that releases, and sometimes, I find out about games i'd never have otherwise played because I saw them on a lets play / livestream/etc.

You also have things like speedruns and competitive play that can be fun to watch.
 
2013-05-16 01:39:53 PM  

Trollin4Colon: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

They have their uses but not many. For example, yesterday's Crusader kings 2 thread reminded me that I wanted to give it another try, but I am just too dumb to understand the game without having my hand held or watching someone play it.

Or, like my buddy who is too pussy to actually PLAY amnesia so he just watches others play it LOL


I watch the Crusader Kings and Victoria2 ones, as they are grand strategy games (i.e. they make Civ V look like a game of Risk).  With a good LP'er, a video is like ann unfolding Tv show with the host explaining the 'how and why' different events are unfolding and whats happening around you that a starting playing would easily overlook.

  Also watching some LP's of roguelikes are fun, especially when you see the players imminent death coming and see their reaction to it
 
2013-05-16 01:40:31 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


All I know is that I missed my calling.

There's a small amount of coin some of these people are making.
 
2013-05-16 01:45:28 PM  

star_topology: There's a small amount of coin some of these people are making.


Not only that, but now the top Lp'ers get free invites to Gaming conventions, free games to play and also free travel to gaming headquarters to check out soon-to-be-released games.  Paradox just flew a bunch of Lp'ers to Stockholm, put them up in a swanky hotel and pitted them all against each other in a match of Europa Universalis IV.  Sometimes even the game developers will join them on the video and do co-commentary
 
2013-05-16 01:46:00 PM  
www.youtube.com/retsupurae

Slowbeef and Diabetus from somethingawful riff on terrible (for various reasons) let's plays.  Enjoy.
 
2013-05-16 01:50:07 PM  
Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-16 01:55:04 PM  

xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that


I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.
 
2013-05-16 01:56:52 PM  
I see that Nintendo is trying its best to catch up to Sony and Microsoft in the "let's piss off our customers" category.
 
2013-05-16 02:03:14 PM  

hammer85: Tyrone Slothrop: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Some reasons for watching lets plays:
a) seeing if a game is worth playing in the first place by watching someone else play (since you can't rely on publicity/reviews, and no one makes demos any more)
b) seeing how to get through a part you're stuck on, or easter eggs you missed
c) seeing a game not available on a platform you own
d) humorous/informative commentary

I've ended up buying a couple of games after watching lets plays, particularly Dark Souls.

Dark Souls 2 can't come out fast enough.  I'm sitting in a complete black hole of gaming atm waiting for something to hold my attention.


Try dragons dogma. The story is the worst ive ever seen in a game. I mean so bad, you could get more cohesive plot from a farking NES game, but the rest of the game is a blast and very well done. Kinda feels like Dark Souls lite(well, ultra-lite if im going to try to make that comparison) to a extent

germ78: Tyrone Slothrop: I've ended up buying a couple of games after watching lets plays, particularly Dark Souls.

Dark Souls is an awesome game. Unfortunately, the last software update for PS3 made all the soul markers (and your green soul thingy from when you die) on my screen disappear, which sort of breaks the game.

/got halfway through Blighttown before I read that the Rusted Iron Ring makes the swamp at the bottom much easier
//now I have to backtrack back up to the Firelink Shrine, which is proving more difficult than you'd think
///stupid monsters standing at the top of ladders and narrow walkways...


My poor gf is playing it through for the first time and she keeps having to turn off the internet every half hour or so cause some parts of that game are just impossible to play with the flickering (Queelag, Im looking in your direction)
 
2013-05-16 02:09:24 PM  
star_topology:

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]


How he got popular is one of the greatest mysteries of our time.
 
2013-05-16 02:15:48 PM  

star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]


Who?
 
2013-05-16 02:16:37 PM  

Antimatter: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Because I can't buy and play every game that releases, and sometimes, I find out about games i'd never have otherwise played because I saw them on a lets play / livestream/etc.

You also have things like speedruns and competitive play that can be fun to watch.


The Kaizo Mario levels are also a blast to watch. Some of the craziest death sequences imaginable.

Trollin4Colon: My poor gf is playing it through for the first time and she keeps having to turn off the internet every half hour or so cause some parts of that game are just impossible to play with the flickering (Queelag, Im looking in your direction)


I'll try playing offline and see if that helps with the disappearing souls.
 
2013-05-16 02:17:48 PM  

germ78: Antimatter: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Because I can't buy and play every game that releases, and sometimes, I find out about games i'd never have otherwise played because I saw them on a lets play / livestream/etc.

You also have things like speedruns and competitive play that can be fun to watch.

The Kaizo Mario levels are also a blast to watch. Some of the craziest death sequences imaginable.

Trollin4Colon: My poor gf is playing it through for the first time and she keeps having to turn off the internet every half hour or so cause some parts of that game are just impossible to play with the flickering (Queelag, Im looking in your direction)

I'll try playing offline and see if that helps with the disappearing souls.


It fixes it completely. For some reason its a online only bug.
 
2013-05-16 02:20:51 PM  

PsyLord: I see that Nintendo is trying its best to catch up to Sony and Microsoft in the "let's piss off our customers" category.


Neither sony or MS is this anal about it I don't think.  Hell, Sony built streaming and video recording into the ps4, and I suspect MS is doing something similar.
 
2013-05-16 02:20:59 PM  

ReverendJasen: xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that

I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.


I'm on Chrome with AdBlock only.  No ads.
 
2013-05-16 02:23:29 PM  
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable compromise that results in both parties going home happy.
 
2013-05-16 02:29:29 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Theaetetus: Inigo: Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

[i.imgur.com image 500x345]

I'm okay with this.


It's a lose-lose scenario  for Nintendo though. The creators of current videos will just remove the original and chop it up into smaller chunks that fall below Nintendo's threshold. People are already used to "lets play" videos being in sets, so they aren't going to be particularly turned off by making larger sets of shorter clips.

So now Nintendo won't get the revenue, and they lost goodwill towards people who were actually playing their games and increasing awareness.


To me, an analagous situation is an art textbook. Sure, you may need the artwork to comment on, but the artists don't get to demand the entire profit margin from the book. A good LP will have commentary (Gamegrumps and TBFP). Time and effort is definitely put in to make the LP good, and not everyone can do a good LP. All Nintendo is doing is making sure that LPs are not Nintendo, since nobody is going to make any money off of it. Why use your time and channel space on something that somebody else is getting paid for when there are Microsoft, PC, and Sony titles right there?
 
2013-05-16 02:38:27 PM  

ignacio: That sounds like a perfectly reasonable compromise that results in both parties going home happy.


I don't see how "You do the work, we'll take the ad revenue" is a reasonable compromise.  Though I guess this is still better than the shiat Sega was pulling a month or two ago.
 
2013-05-16 02:38:27 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


Because the appeal of video games is to find answers and solutions for overcoming interactive systems.  Unfortunately, that requires you actually understand how they work, and as we're finding out, only a small percentage of video game players are actually capable of doing this.  For those who can't, then there's really no difference between playing them and watching others play them.  Therefore, e-Sports.  Therefore, Let's Play videos.  Therefore, "interactive entertainment".
 
2013-05-16 02:40:07 PM  

Antimatter: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Because I can't buy and play every game that releases, and sometimes, I find out about games i'd never have otherwise played because I saw them on a lets play / livestream/etc.

You also have things like speedruns and competitive play that can be fun to watch.


I like watching speedruns and Tool assisted speedruns. Not a fan of let's plays, though. I'd rather watch as is game footage instead of listening to people talk.

Watching Megaman videos now makes me want to play some NES megaman.
 
2013-05-16 02:45:41 PM  

NeverDrunk23: Antimatter: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Because I can't buy and play every game that releases, and sometimes, I find out about games i'd never have otherwise played because I saw them on a lets play / livestream/etc.

You also have things like speedruns and competitive play that can be fun to watch.

I like watching speedruns and Tool assisted speedruns. Not a fan of let's plays, though. I'd rather watch as is game footage instead of listening to people talk.

Watching Megaman videos now makes me want to play some NES megaman.


I don't like the recorded ones, but watching lives ones can be nice at times.  Fell in love with minecraft after watching Cliantrogamer and some others play, while Xcom: enemy Unknown went from unknown to a must buy after watching a few people play.

Ditto for stuff like super meat boy and VVVVVV.  For classic games, folks like Romscout, CarlSagan, Trihex, or others is just awe inspiring at times.

For fighting games, rarely do I long enjoy playing them, but watching skilled players play live is a thing of beauty.
 
2013-05-16 03:10:57 PM  

ReverendJasen: xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that

I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.


Adblock Plus blocks youtube video ads. Works fine for me. You're either doing it wrong or need to update ABP.
 
2013-05-16 03:18:04 PM  

Dimensio: star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]

Who?


That's PewDiePie.  He's a Swedish video game commentator and his schtick is overly-dramatic reactions to scary moments in games.  His Amnesia series was absolutely unwatchable because of him.  Also he uses homophobic language in his videos.  His videos aren't about the games at all; they're about him reacting to the games.  Tolerable for about a minute, and then it's just painful.

I'm absolutely fascinated as to how that wreck became popular.
 
2013-05-16 03:22:42 PM  
They're not going after or shutting down videos. They're monetizing the videos that people are monetizing.

"As part of our on-going push to ensure Nintendo content is shared across social media channels in an appropriate and safe way, we became a YouTube partner and as such in February 2013 we registered our copyright content in the YouTube database. For most fan videos this will not result in any changes, however, for those videos featuring Nintendo-owned content, such as images or audio of a certain length, adverts will now appear at the beginning, next to or at the end of the clips. We continually want our fans to enjoy sharing Nintendo content on YouTube, and that is why, unlike other entertainment companies, we have chosen not to block people using our intellectual property.

For more information please visit http://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright/faq.html "


This is fairly common on Youtube. Microsoft did the same with Halo 4 videos.
 
2013-05-16 03:24:28 PM  
Conflicted. On the one hand, someone who makes a movie or piece of static art has the right to collect any ad revenue generated from unauthorized showings of it. On the other hand, if someone were to make a tool that someone else were to use to create art (such as a piano or a paintbrush,) they would have no claim to any ad revenue generated from the art. Is a Nintendo game the art or the tool? It's kind of grey.
 
2013-05-16 03:35:47 PM  

Tommy Moo: Conflicted. On the one hand, someone who makes a movie or piece of static art has the right to collect any ad revenue generated from unauthorized showings of it. On the other hand, if someone were to make a tool that someone else were to use to create art (such as a piano or a paintbrush,) they would have no claim to any ad revenue generated from the art. Is a Nintendo game the art or the tool? It's kind of grey.


The question that you're getting it is the issue of transformative work. A hotly contested issue, and one that sort've sucks with an automated system like ContentID. Are there LPs that are gameplay and nothing else? Yes. Are there LPs that are (in my opinion) worthy of monetization because they add something to the game or are generally value added? Yes. Is Nintendo a hamfisted giant for smashing both groups for what amounts to chump change, PR blow, and Advertisement suicide? Yes.
 
2013-05-16 03:37:18 PM  

Tommy Moo: On the other hand, if someone were to make a tool that someone else were to use to create art (such as a piano or a paintbrush,) they would have no claim to any ad revenue generated from the art. Is a Nintendo game the art or the tool? It's kind of grey.


http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Williams_Electronics_v._Artic_Internatio na l 

This was settled about thirty or so years ago when Arctic International bootlegged Williams Electronics' Defender, and when Arctic got sued, they claimed that the game could not be copyrighted because the on-screen actions were not "fixed", and that the copyright (to some degree) was actually held by the player, who was the one actually creating the fixed expression on the screen.  Arctic got their ass kicked and set all of the necessary precedent for the means by which games are fixed, tangible works, with the copyrights for the game assets (no matter their manipulation) held by the game creator.  This was the argument that Blizzard used to settle the matter of South Korean StarCraft, since the game assets are all copyrighted, irrespective of the differences in the individual playthroughs.
 
2013-05-16 03:38:39 PM  
Oh, and read into it if you're interested.  Can't answer any responses until I get back tonight.  Sorry.
 
2013-05-16 03:48:25 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Tommy Moo: On the other hand, if someone were to make a tool that someone else were to use to create art (such as a piano or a paintbrush,) they would have no claim to any ad revenue generated from the art. Is a Nintendo game the art or the tool? It's kind of grey.

http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Williams_Electronics_v._Artic_Internatio na l 

This was settled about thirty or so years ago when Arctic International bootlegged Williams Electronics' Defender, and when Arctic got sued, they claimed that the game could not be copyrighted because the on-screen actions were not "fixed", and that the copyright (to some degree) was actually held by the player, who was the one actually creating the fixed expression on the screen.  Arctic got their ass kicked and set all of the necessary precedent for the means by which games are fixed, tangible works, with the copyrights for the game assets (no matter their manipulation) held by the game creator.  This was the argument that Blizzard used to settle the matter of South Korean StarCraft, since the game assets are all copyrighted, irrespective of the differences in the individual playthroughs.


I don't think the game's copyright is under question, but more if the addition of commentary, as well as removing the interactive element from the game constitutes a transformative work, and consequently,the issue of fair use.
 
2013-05-16 03:53:16 PM  
Wow, they must REALLY be hurting from the Wii U's flop.
 
2013-05-16 04:08:55 PM  

taxandspend: Antimatter: PsyLord: I see that Nintendo is trying its best to catch up to Sony and Microsoft in the "let's piss off our customers" category.

Neither sony or MS is this anal about it I don't think.  Hell, Sony built streaming and video recording into the ps4, and I suspect MS is doing something similar.

And who, right now, is to say that both Sony and MS won't be making money off your run through uploads?


Nothing like that has been announced as of yet.  Outside of requireing XBLG or PSPlus at least.
 
2013-05-16 04:12:00 PM  

ReverendJasen: xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that

I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.


I'm running Adblock and Noscript in Chrome, and I never see ads of any kind on YouTube.  It's been this way for so long that when I watch YouTube videos on a different computer I get confused when an ad starts to play.
 
2013-05-16 04:13:48 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


I have a few times, just because I couldn't grasp HOW IN THE LIVING FARK people solo Platinum maps on Mass Effect 3's multi-player.  I usually get my ass kicked on Gold, with a good team of four players.
 
2013-05-16 04:15:40 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


Since many games these days don't offer a demo and you can't get Steam refunds, I tend to watch a few lets play videos before actually buying the game.

/well you can get Steam refunds if you manage to catch the publisher on a good day or just get lucky
 
2013-05-16 04:23:23 PM  

ReverendJasen: xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that

I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.


Go to Filter Prefs in Adblock Plus and uncheck the box at the bottom that says "Allow some non-intrusive advertising".  It installs with that turned on and I assume you just didn't know that was there because only an idiot would willingly leave it checked on.
 
2013-05-16 04:24:52 PM  

ReverendJasen: xanadian: You play a video, you oftentimes get a 15-second, 30-second or (ugh) 4-plus-minute "ad" at the beginning of it.

Not sure Adblock blocks that

I'm on Firefox with Adlbock+, Noscript, and Ghostery... I still see the embedded video ads.  So I'd say that's a negatory.


Can you cite a video with ads? I've got those three, plus more, and I don't recall having seen an ad any time recently.

/gets momentarily confused when I use another's computer and see ads all over the place
 
2013-05-16 04:50:37 PM  

IrateShadow: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

I'll throw one on every now and then for background noise when I'm doing something else.  Usuaully with a game that I'm interested in but not interested enough to buy.


They're great background noise, they've convinced me to pick up games I wouldn't normally have been interested in trying out myself, and sometimes I learn something new about a game I've played a million times myself.
 
2013-05-16 04:51:29 PM  
In other news, Nintendo game sales drop precipitously, as no one can tolerate their ads and the gameplay itself can no longer be viewed in "over the shoulder" mode on YouTube.

See, Nintendo, with your track record, it's a friggin' gamble to buy your games - we don't trust your misleading ads, so we have to see actual gameplay to make that "buy or skip" decision. Now that you've hampered that latter exposure, it's going to be even harder to convince us to buy your games. Your ads certainly aren't cutting it.
 
2013-05-16 05:05:07 PM  
Are they going to do this with tool-assisted speedruns, too?
 
2013-05-16 05:08:03 PM  

GavinTheAlmighty: Dimensio: star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]

Who?

That's PewDiePie.  He's a Swedish video game commentator and his schtick is overly-dramatic reactions to scary moments in games.  His Amnesia series was absolutely unwatchable because of him.  Also he uses homophobic language in his videos.  His videos aren't about the games at all; they're about him reacting to the games.  Tolerable for about a minute, and then it's just painful.

I'm absolutely fascinated as to how that wreck became popular.


Don't forget about his seeming obsession with rape jokes.


Anyway, here's pretty much all you need to know about that twerp, courtesy of the Retsupurae folks that was mentioned above


Adults react to PewDiePie  NSFW language and speaker warning.
 
2013-05-16 05:16:22 PM  
Anyway, I enjoy Let's Plays when they are done well.  It was actually through a couple Let's Plays that I discovered a few indie games that I ended up really enjoying that I probably wouldn't have found out otherwise such as Cave Story and La-Mulana.  Unfortunately, good ones seem to be the exception as there are a lot of terrible Let's Plays out there.
 
2013-05-16 05:27:16 PM  
ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

Depends on who is playing.

Take all of what Tyrone Slothrop said and add

* Watching someone at a ridiculously high skill level play, AKA "Holy fark, how the hell does he/she do that?"

// devil may cry speedruns in dante must die mode make me go WTF and feel humbled.
 
2013-05-16 05:44:44 PM  

star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]


You hit all my video game youtube subscriptions in one post!

Though I also subscribe to Josh Jepson.
 
2013-05-16 05:50:16 PM  

Myria: Are they going to do this with tool-assisted speedruns, too?


They have an automated system that will target any videos with Nintendo content of a certain length. That means any and all types of content will get hit, including reviews and such.

The one issue I have is that Nintendo has actually promoted monetized videos in the past without saying anything, and now they suddenly start attacking those people's livelihood.
 
2013-05-16 05:58:58 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


BRONZE LEAGUE HEROES

/I don't actually play SC2, but just listening to the announcer lose his shiat about 2/3rds of the way through was hilarious.
//I also got way better at the Total War series after reading the really, really good user's AAR's.  Just things like "If you put your back to a mountain, you get the high ground on the random map" or "If you can't stop the Mongols, pull back, gift the border cities to the Pope, and watch hilarity ensue"
///And we can't forget the sublime joy that is Reginald Cuthbert in F:NV.
////Heck, I picked up ME1 after seeing the Spoiler Warning Let's Play and I've got about 1200 hours across all 3 games at this point.
 
2013-05-16 06:05:21 PM  
For old games that have been creatively hacked/modded watching a video of someone playing can be fun, like watching Sonic run through what are supposed to be solid barriers and things like that.
 
2013-05-16 06:15:24 PM  
If someone makes a living by posting LP's then they need to go get a real job. This sort of stuff is supposed to be just a damn hobby, not what puts bread on the table. I have no sympathy for people who aren't getting paid for these because they shouldn't have been getting paid in the first place.
 
2013-05-16 06:18:41 PM  
I've been enjoying Achievement Hunter's Let's Play of Minecraft. You'd think it would be boring, but it is quite funny.

The best is the Rage Quit video of the Surgery Simulator 2013. (The original one, not the steam verson.)
 
2013-05-16 06:21:31 PM  
For those of you who have never seen a "Let's Play" video, allow me to spell it out for you:

1. "Hey guys!"
2. "Today... um... we're... uh... going... er... to play... urmmm... [game title]"
3. Watch somebody else play a video game you could be playing yourself.
4. Forced humor and intentional overreaction.
5. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um.
6. "Thanks for watching! Make sure to, uh, like, comment and, ummmm, subscribe."
 
2013-05-16 06:28:57 PM  
y'all have been watching some pretty shiatty LPs
 
2013-05-16 06:29:30 PM  
I am not into the "Let's Play!" videos, but I do enjoy a subset of them, the "glitch" videos.

There's a couple of Sweedish (or....Norwegian? I might be racist.) guys who do a series called "I Broke _____" where they play games incorrectly and yell at each other in bad English. It's endlessly entertaining.

I actually bought "Hitman: Absolution" based on their video, oddly enough.
 
2013-05-16 06:38:07 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-16 06:41:21 PM  

kenshin5435: If someone makes a living by posting LP's then they need to go get a real job. This sort of stuff is supposed to be just a damn hobby, not what puts bread on the table. I have no sympathy for people who aren't getting paid for these because they shouldn't have been getting paid in the first place.


i2.ytimg.com
 
2013-05-16 06:46:59 PM  
Guys, I've been hiding a secret for many years now and it's brought me immeasurable shame.  I've never told anybody this in real life because I know I'd lose friends and relationships over it.  But, I am one of the people who occasionally watches video clips online of people playing video games.  God, I can't believe I even mustered up the courage to type that out, I'm literally shaking so much I've had to pause numerous times mid-sentence.

For me, it's a natural thing and I can only suppress the urge for so long.  Usually it's older games.   Games for systems I no longer own or games that were released on systems I never owned to begin with.  Some of them bring back fond memories, some of them are just neat.  A few weeks ago, I watched some vids of 3DO games, and some game play videos of a few NES games, then I got into a Gauntlet tangent and watched videos of gameplay from multiple systems just to compare and contrast.

I feel like finally admitting this to the world is a first step.  In time, I may grow to accept this unforgivable character flaw -- who knows I might even find others I'm comfortable confiding in.  But for now, I'm simply learning how to live with this heavy, wretched burden on my shoulders.
 
2013-05-16 07:02:26 PM  
Ninten-

cdn4.www.babble.com
 
2013-05-16 07:05:05 PM  
there are several games that are helpful for LPs, none of which are Nintendo's.  I love Civ 5 LPs as it's a good complex game where other people's strategies are worth the time.
 
2013-05-16 07:05:41 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun?

Yeah, I just can't understand why Baseball is so popular on TV. Don't people know they could be playing this game themselves? How is that fun?
 
2013-05-16 07:05:46 PM  
So let me see if i have this right:EA, Ubisoft and other publishers: Hey we want the ad revenue for these videos using our ipGaming public: *silence*Nintendo:Hey we want the ad revenue for these videos using our ipGaming public: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! !
 
2013-05-16 07:28:10 PM  
The only good LPs are those where the dude doing it is wicked funny or wicked good at the game. However 99% of LPs are neither.
 
2013-05-16 07:33:50 PM  
Youtube actually hosts all their own advertising videos on their own site. There's literally no way to block them.

On the plus side, there's no evil hackery involved either.
 
2013-05-16 07:37:08 PM  

superwombatman: www.youtube.com/retsupurae

Slowbeef and Diabetus from somethingawful riff on terrible (for various reasons) let's plays.  Enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/user/PsychedelicSA
One of my favourite lets players. I really dig his accent.
'Give me back my camera you.... 'ORRIBLE game!"
 
2013-05-16 07:49:24 PM  

TheZorker: Youtube actually hosts all their own advertising videos on their own site. There's literally no way to block them.

On the plus side, there's no evil hackery involved either.


Could you link to a video with ads? I can't remember the last time I saw an ad...
 
2013-05-16 07:57:22 PM  
...and then the major LP'ers stop making let's plays of Nintendo titles, get snarky on their sites and pages ("well, I  would do a let's play of this Nintendo game, but they want to screw me out of my page revenue so I think I'll just do this indie title that's much better and not made by Fascists..."), and Nintendo ends up with some of the worse press this side of the Sim City debacle. It's not like the LP'ers super-aggressively protect their channels and revenue sources, after all (see, SOPA).

I don't think they've thought their cunning plan all the way through.
 
2013-05-16 08:11:43 PM  

that bosnian sniper: the major LP'ers


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-16 09:43:32 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


I watch Game Grumps when I'm taking a dump, and a few videos in case I need help/tutorials in things like Kerbal Space Program. It's entertainment, just like anything else, really.
 
2013-05-16 09:56:22 PM  

Ravengirl: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun?
Yeah, I just can't understand why Baseball is so popular on TV. Don't people know they could be playing this game themselves? How is that fun?


Me neither. Watching sports is boring, too.
 
2013-05-16 10:33:11 PM  

Mentalpatient87: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.

I watch Game Grumps when I'm taking a dump, and a few videos in case I need help/tutorials in things like Kerbal Space Program. It's entertainment, just like anything else, really.


I watched some lets play videos for dark souls after about 30 deaths to the Capra Demon and the six month hiatus I took as a result. Beat it on the first try after that. They are useful sometimes.
 
2013-05-16 10:35:40 PM  
This is news because Nintendo is being real hard asses about the issue and they don't want the vids blocked, they just want a piece of the pie.

I already have 1 gameplay video (Family Guy Online) on my channel that Youtube refused to monetize because Fox had a problem with it. The game was cancelled before it even got out of Beta and they  still wouldn't let me monetize it.

Here is the link if anyone wants to see it http://youtu.be/_uo8D61oUKI

I have gameplay vids from other games that were monetized without a problem.
 
2013-05-16 10:49:22 PM  
fark off Nintendo.
 
2013-05-16 10:50:08 PM  
There is no way this would stand up in court. That would be like Dodge claiming they own the rights to any video I upload of me driving my car.
 
2013-05-16 11:04:02 PM  

ReapTheChaos: There is no way this would stand up in court. That would be like Dodge claiming they own the rights to any video I upload of me driving my car.


What exactly is illegal about a copyright holder enforcing their copyright? Fair use only protects up to a point, and I'm pretty sure that very point is the moment when money begins to change hands. Fair use does not protect you for profiting off of someone else's intellectual property.

As for Dodge, they probably could do that if you made videos specifically about driving your dodge and only about driving your dodge and driving other dodges, mentioning and showing off their brand and logo prominently throughout each video, and tried to make money off it.
 
2013-05-16 11:12:46 PM  
I love watching LPs of older games like side scrollers to see how other people play and find new ways to play a game. I also like watching ones of the more story drivin games as it can be like a long movie especially if im about to play a games sequel and need a refresher on the previous games. Then there are games like Metal Gear which i love the story, but hate the gameplay.
 
2013-05-16 11:21:56 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Ravengirl: ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun?
Yeah, I just can't understand why Baseball is so popular on TV. Don't people know they could be playing this game themselves? How is that fun?

Me neither. Watching sports is boring, too.


About the only game footage of which I watch regularly any more is SC2, but that's for commentary, keeping an eye on the metagame, and picking up new strategies and build orders. Other than that, I used to watch Minecraft videos (it's fun seeing what other people make), and the odd "humorous commentary" video that is  actuallyfunny (a genuine rarity on Youtube, I greely grant).
 
2013-05-16 11:45:49 PM  

Codenamechaz: ReapTheChaos: There is no way this would stand up in court. That would be like Dodge claiming they own the rights to any video I upload of me driving my car.

What exactly is illegal about a copyright holder enforcing their copyright? Fair use only protects up to a point, and I'm pretty sure that very point is the moment when money begins to change hands. Fair use does not protect you for profiting off of someone else's intellectual property.

As for Dodge, they probably could do that if you made videos specifically about driving your dodge and only about driving your dodge and driving other dodges, mentioning and showing off their brand and logo prominently throughout each video, and tried to make money off it.


Wrong. Commercialness is only one prong of the Fair use test. LPs could be, in some respects, transformative and/or commentary, and protected by Fair use. Unfortunately it's only an affirmative defense, so you'd have to actually go to court to prove it.

17 U.S.C. § 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
 
2013-05-17 01:24:41 AM  

Kinek: Codenamechaz: ReapTheChaos: There is no way this would stand up in court. That would be like Dodge claiming they own the rights to any video I upload of me driving my car.

What exactly is illegal about a copyright holder enforcing their copyright? Fair use only protects up to a point, and I'm pretty sure that very point is the moment when money begins to change hands. Fair use does not protect you for profiting off of someone else's intellectual property.

As for Dodge, they probably could do that if you made videos specifically about driving your dodge and only about driving your dodge and driving other dodges, mentioning and showing off their brand and logo prominently throughout each video, and tried to make money off it.

Wrong. Commercialness is only one prong of the Fair use test. LPs could be, in some respects, transformative and/or commentary, and protected by Fair use. Unfortunately it's only an affirmative defense, so you'd have to actually go to court to prove it.

17 U.S.C. § 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


Using what you've provided, let me lay it out like this.
A good chunk of popular "lets play"-er:
1. Take payment from Youtube's ad services for -
2. Putting on display for the world to see-
3. The entirety of someone else's copyrighted work, often split into portions due to video size, which -
4. Depending on the quality of the product, could negatively impact any future sales, especially if it's a new product.
 
2013-05-17 01:26:34 AM  

Kinek: I don't think the game's copyright is under question, but more if the addition of commentary, as well as removing the interactive element from the game constitutes a transformative work, and consequently,the issue of fair use.


As far as I know, the issue was publicly settled when Blizzard Entertainment asserted that the Korean e-Sports Players Association was infringing on their copyright by holding professional StarCraft tournaments without their consent or paying royalties.  Their game code, their assets, their copyright.  In the end, KeSPA wanted no part of that legal fight, and that's saying something, because it would have been a foreign company in a Korean court arguing that a pseudo-governmental entity was in violation of their rights.  That's the mother of all home court advantage and KeSPA backed down.
 
2013-05-17 02:34:38 AM  
There are ads on youtube?
 
2013-05-17 02:38:55 AM  

Theaetetus: Inigo: Nintendo does not want to block videos containing content that it owns from appearing on Youtube (as many film and music publishers have), but it wants to place ads at the beginning and the end of videos featuring Nintendo games, such as Let's Plays, with that revenue going to Nintendo as opposed to the creator of the video.

[i.imgur.com image 500x345]

I'm okay with this.


I'm not.  As far as I'm concerned, the game itself becomes a tool used by the player/recorder.  I don't really consider it any different than someone buying a car and posting a video of their test drive.
 
2013-05-17 03:40:46 AM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


You get to see the game being played without having to bother.

I do this for games, like Duck Tales, where I want to see the final boss because I could never do it as a kid by virtue of not owning the cartridge.

Or, the other variety is when really funny people just comment on the game. Those are actually better and usually go about 20 minutes each. It's usually funnier than network scripted shows.
 
2013-05-17 05:56:25 AM  
I heard 2 people discussing the last Zelda game over by the water cooler this week - I assume Nintendo wants to sue the crap out of them for infringing on their copyright?

I give it 5 years before the 'Synposis' sections of wikipedia pages on TV / Film / Games all go because of over-reaching stuff like this.
 
2013-05-17 08:14:23 AM  

Keshire: For people that don't understand, even non-painters watched Bob Ross paint.


I don't know what it is, but watching him paint is so...soothing while at the same time mindblowing.  Like, how in the hell did he make that tree, and then I have to rewind it so I can pay attention this time, and I still don't get it!
 
2013-05-17 08:51:36 AM  

taxandspend: Kinek: 17 U.S.C. § 107

Looking at that, there are arguments for both sides. LP's can say their video's are a work of commentary protected under this.
Nintendo can say that LP's show too much of the copyrighted work, harm the potential market for the copyrighted work and are commercial in nature so they are not covered by this.


And that's just the issue. Some of them are certainly transformative. None of the LPs will go to court, but all of them are getting punished. From the high commentary LPs like Game Grumps, Robbaz, and TBFP, to the low commentary LPs. The problem is that Fair use is an affirmative defense, and any possibility of arguing is snuffed out by the all reaching Revenue hammer that is content ID.
 
2013-05-17 08:56:19 AM  

Codenamechaz: Kinek: Codenamechaz: ReapTheChaos: There is no way this would stand up in court. That would be like Dodge claiming they own the rights to any video I upload of me driving my car.

What exactly is illegal about a copyright holder enforcing their copyright? Fair use only protects up to a point, and I'm pretty sure that very point is the moment when money begins to change hands. Fair use does not protect you for profiting off of someone else's intellectual property.

As for Dodge, they probably could do that if you made videos specifically about driving your dodge and only about driving your dodge and driving other dodges, mentioning and showing off their brand and logo prominently throughout each video, and tried to make money off it.

Wrong. Commercialness is only one prong of the Fair use test. LPs could be, in some respects, transformative and/or commentary, and protected by Fair use. Unfortunately it's only an affirmative defense, so you'd have to actually go to court to prove it.

17 U.S.C. § 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Using what you've provided, let me lay it out like this.
A good chunk of popular "let ...


Alright, My Prongs.

1) Commercial
2) The copyrighted work is a game, while the displayed copy is a video, removing key interactive elements. In good LPs, commentary is added, giving rise to the argument of transformation.
3) Again, the game portion has been removed from the copy, rendering it non-competitive with the origiunal product.
4) Does not compete with the original product, unless Games are considered essentially movies. Do you consider games to be movies?
 
2013-05-17 08:56:59 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Kinek: I don't think the game's copyright is under question, but more if the addition of commentary, as well as removing the interactive element from the game constitutes a transformative work, and consequently,the issue of fair use.

As far as I know, the issue was publicly settled when Blizzard Entertainment asserted that the Korean e-Sports Players Association was infringing on their copyright by holding professional StarCraft tournaments without their consent or paying royalties.  Their game code, their assets, their copyright.  In the end, KeSPA wanted no part of that legal fight, and that's saying something, because it would have been a foreign company in a Korean court arguing that a pseudo-governmental entity was in violation of their rights.  That's the mother of all home court advantage and KeSPA backed down.


So it hasn't been settled in court. Good to know.
 
2013-05-17 09:00:00 AM  

broadsword: I heard 2 people discussing the last Zelda game over by the water cooler this week - I assume Nintendo wants to sue the crap out of them for infringing on their copyright?

I give it 5 years before the 'Synposis' sections of wikipedia pages on TV / Film / Games all go because of over-reaching stuff like this.


I sometimes read these rather than watching a movie or playing a game. I guess that that's lost sales, and yes, Nintendo and every media company should not allow synopsis or commentary of any type.
 
2013-05-17 09:15:54 AM  

Luminaro: star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]

You hit all my video game youtube subscriptions in one post!

Though I also subscribe to Josh Jepson.


His DKC:R LP with Superjeenius is one of my favorites.  So many lulz.
 
2013-05-17 10:24:03 AM  
Kinek: Alright, My Prongs.
1) Commercial
2) The copyrighted work is a game, while the displayed copy is a video, removing key interactive elements. In good LPs, commentary is added, giving rise to the argument of transformation.
3) Again, the game portion has been removed from the copy, rendering it non-competitive with the origiunal product.
4) Does not compete with the original product, unless Games are considered essentially movies. Do you consider games to be movies?

 
See, the problem is that Fair use stops at 1. You cannot make a commercial product from someone else's copyrighted work without that copyright holder's permission to use their intellectual property. That's where things like licensing comes from. However, instead of just suing people, as is their right, many companies just have Youtube remove the videos. Now instead of removing them, the companies are just having the ad revenue go to them.
 It's possible it could be argued that they perform an informative service in documenting the quality of the product, but that's a gray area at best that hasn't been tested in a court of law, and once it's pointed out that they're taking money without paying the copyright holder, they're in trouble.


On top of that, changing the product from interactive to video doesn't change the fact that you're displaying the product in its entirety. Sure, the person viewing it isn't actively controlling the events, but you're taking away the need for the person to spend money on the product to obtain that experience, commentary or not. It's much in the same way people make movies from books. Turning letters into a motion picture doesn't suddenly make it free and okay to do so. The people who made the Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc etc had to get licenses and permissions from the owners of the copyrights to be able to do that without getting their asses sued off.
 
2013-05-17 11:15:12 AM  

Codenamechaz: Kinek: Alright, My Prongs.
1) Commercial
2) The copyrighted work is a game, while the displayed copy is a video, removing key interactive elements. In good LPs, commentary is added, giving rise to the argument of transformation.
3) Again, the game portion has been removed from the copy, rendering it non-competitive with the origiunal product.
4) Does not compete with the original product, unless Games are considered essentially movies. Do you consider games to be movies?
 
See, the problem is that Fair use stops at 1. You cannot make a commercial product from someone else's copyrighted work without that copyright holder's permission to use their intellectual property. That's where things like licensing comes from. However, instead of just suing people, as is their right, many companies just have Youtube remove the videos. Now instead of removing them, the companies are just having the ad revenue go to them.
 It's possible it could be argued that they perform an informative service in documenting the quality of the product, but that's a gray area at best that hasn't been tested in a court of law, and once it's pointed out that they're taking money without paying the copyright holder, they're in trouble.


On top of that, changing the product from interactive to video doesn't change the fact that you're displaying the product in its entirety. Sure, the person viewing it isn't actively controlling the events, but you're taking away the need for the person to spend money on the product to obtain that experience, commentary or not. It's much in the same way people make movies from books. Turning letters into a motion picture doesn't suddenly make it free and okay to do so. The people who made the Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc etc had to get licenses and permissions from the owners of the copyrights to be able to do that without getting their asses sued off.


Wrong.

Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. says that fair use can be commercial.
 
2013-05-17 11:31:45 AM  

Kinek: So it hasn't been settled in court. Good to know.


http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Baron_v._Taito

On appeal, Taito sought to overturn the district court's ruling regarding Red Baron's right to publicly perform the Double Dragon game. Taito argued that the first sale doctrine, although essential to the discussion of Taito's "right to distribute," has a separate and distinct application regarding the right to perform publicly.In reviewing Taito's argument, the court determined that "the first sale doctrine has no application to the rights of the owner of a copyright guaranteed by §106, except the right of distribution. In support of this, the relied on Columbia Pictures Indus., Inc. v. Aveco, Inc.,[1] which stated, "The rights protected by copyright are divisible and the waiver of one does not necessarily waive any of the others. . . . It therefore cannot protect one is infringing rights by the public performance of the copyrighted work."

Since the court previously determined that Red Baron's use of Double Dragon constituted a "public performance" due to the nature of the screen sequence and public accessibility of the arcade, the appellate court found that the district court erred in dismissing Taito's copyright infringement claim relating to public performance. Consequently the court reversed the lower court ruling and remanded the case for further proceedings consistent with the views expressed on appeal.


You will lose and you will lose bad, whether you simply lose your court case or spend everything you own in the process of losing your court case.  There is no fair use, unless you're going to argue that Allen v. Academic Games League of America trumps everything, in which the non-commercial, non-spectator use of a board game for tournament use did not constitute a "performance" under the Copyright Act, and that somehow applies to the commercial use of video game material for use in "Let's Plays", which are public performances of the game in every sense of the world.  Michael Nelson released RiffTrax as commentaries completely separate from the actual movies for a reason, and in the case of the incident I mentioned above, that was their entire business model, i.e. "they became functionally irrelevant the second that they allowed the game companies to assert the right of public display over their games".  It was absolutely in all of their interests to defend that court case and they did not.  They did not for a reason.  (And yes, I am aware that I am dancing back and forth between Korean and American law, but I've heard or seen nothing which suggests the result is going to be any different.)
 
2013-05-17 11:42:43 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Kinek: So it hasn't been settled in court. Good to know.

http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Baron_v._Taito

On appeal, Taito sought to overturn the district court's ruling regarding Red Baron's right to publicly perform the Double Dragon game. Taito argued that the first sale doctrine, although essential to the discussion of Taito's "right to distribute," has a separate and distinct application regarding the right to perform publicly.In reviewing Taito's argument, the court determined that "the first sale doctrine has no application to the rights of the owner of a copyright guaranteed by §106, except the right of distribution. In support of this, the relied on Columbia Pictures Indus., Inc. v. Aveco, Inc.,[1] which stated, "The rights protected by copyright are divisible and the waiver of one does not necessarily waive any of the others. . . . It therefore cannot protect one is infringing rights by the public performance of the copyrighted work."

Since the court previously determined that Red Baron's use of Double Dragon constituted a "public performance" due to the nature of the screen sequence and public accessibility of the arcade, the appellate court found that the district court erred in dismissing Taito's copyright infringement claim relating to public performance. Consequently the court reversed the lower court ruling and remanded the case for further proceedings consistent with the views expressed on appeal.

You will lose and you will lose bad, whether you simply lose your court case or spend everything you own in the process of losing your court case.  There is no fair use, unless you're going to argue that Allen v. Academic Games League of America trumps everything, in which the non-commercial, non-spectator use of a board game for tournament use did not constitute a "performance" under the Copyright Act, and that somehow applies to the commercial use of video game material for use in "Let's Plays", which are public performances of the game in every sense ...


The Taito case, while similar, shares exactly the opposite problem as the Rifftrax argument, and why I believe you could argue non-competitive nature.

The Taito case was concerned with the illegal distribution of the game itself. That is, you received the entire work. Both interactivity and the performance. This is not an argument about fixed versus non-fixed nature of games. Also, I'm curious as to how the case resolved, your link did not mention the final decision.

The Rifftrax comparison on the other hand is not fair due to the non-interactive nature of Movies. The performance of a movie is the entirety of the product, and by supplying the entirety of the product, there's not a whole lot of room to argue.

I suppose the argument comes down to this. Is viewing a game a substitute for playing the game? What is the nature of the game? And how transformative is the commentary?
 
2013-05-17 12:13:40 PM  
For those of you who see ads, first step is stop using Internet Explorer. Always gotta check the basics ("Is the device plugged in?"). Next, get AdBlock (the symbol is a hand in an octagon, not ABP in an octagon). You won't see ads again. On YouTube that is, Blip vieos now run 90 second "please turn your adblock off" soundless ads.

That being said, watching other people play games can be itself like art. Seeing the world from someone else's perspective, especially someone funny, can be greatly entertaining. The "I Broke __" series on YT was something I just recently discovered and I love it. Same entertainment value holds true for Game Grumps, Achievement Hunter (Rooster Teeth, Let's Play), and Speed Runs Live. It's all about finding those people that make you laugh or help you learn about a subject you're interested in.
 
2013-05-17 12:27:13 PM  

Kinek: Also, I'm curious as to how the case resolved, your link did not mention the final decision.


So far as I know, that was the finality of the case.

Kinek: I suppose the argument comes down to this. Is viewing a game a substitute for playing the game? What is the nature of the game? And how transformative is the commentary?


It's an argument which may apply to analysis of game mechanics and systems, an argument which fundamentally expands the nature of the work, and that's not something which will apply to the average playthrough of the game.  I imagine someone is going to test the waters on professional video game tournaments and do it soon, and you'll find out your answer really quickly.
 
2013-05-17 01:44:59 PM  
Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc doesn't protect fair use for commercial purposes.It protects the commercial use parody, which is completely different from what let's plays do.


On top of that, you never addressed everything else I pointed out was wrong with your argument
 
2013-05-17 02:15:52 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Kinek: Also, I'm curious as to how the case resolved, your link did not mention the final decision.

So far as I know, that was the finality of the case.

Kinek: I suppose the argument comes down to this. Is viewing a game a substitute for playing the game? What is the nature of the game? And how transformative is the commentary?

It's an argument which may apply to analysis of game mechanics and systems, an argument which fundamentally expands the nature of the work, and that's not something which will apply to the average playthrough of the game.  I imagine someone is going to test the waters on professional video game tournaments and do it soon, and you'll find out your answer really quickly.


Consequently the court reversed the lower court ruling and remanded the case for further proceedings consistent with the views expressed on appeal.

So it was argued that first sale exhaustion of the physical product was distinct from the performance of the game. Taito can't argue the physical sale of the board, but can fight the performance of the game (Which would be interesting to revisit after the Kirtsaenger decision). You've allowed divisibility, that's all. I can't seem to find the lower courts second ruling which is important to your point.

I'm interested to see the professional e-sports circuit fight over this. The problem here is not that Nintendo shouldn't get a piece of the pie, but that they've now claimed the entire goddamned pie. THat's probably why Korea dropped the case, not because they'd lose, but because there was an advantageous licensing agreement. Not so here. I mean, if we're going to make real world analogies, this would be football equipment manufactorers demanding an entire team's profits and getting it without due review.
 
2013-05-17 02:21:01 PM  

Codenamechaz: Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc doesn't protect fair use for commercial purposes.It protects the commercial use parody, which is completely different from what let's plays do.


On top of that, you never addressed everything else I pointed out was wrong with your argument


What you said:

Codenamechaz: See, the problem is that Fair use stops at 1.


What Wikipedia says:

Producers or creators of parodies of a copyrighted work have been sued for infringement by the targets of their ridicule, even though such use may be protected as fair use.In Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music Inc[20] the Supreme Court recognized parody as a potential fair use, even when done for profit.

Parody is a subset of Fair use. Parody of commercial work has been allowed. Fair use for commercial purposes is allowed. QED:
 
2013-05-17 03:21:31 PM  
I concede to your victory over my choice of words. However Dr. Seuss Enterprises v. Penguin Books shows that parody is not completely protected by fair use doctrine. And my earlier point still stands that let's plays are not protected under fair use
 
2013-05-17 04:13:32 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I really don't understand this whole "watching other people play games" thing. How is that fun? The point of games is to play them yourself, not watch them being played.


It's fun listening to them, especially if it's two or more people commenting while playing. Plus the Let's Players who go in-depth with the game and show all of the side-stuff and secrets helps people who are playing along or need to find something or get past a troublesome spot. And some games that were obscure or looked down on have become more popular and mainstream when people Let's Play them.
 
2013-05-17 04:24:44 PM  

kenshin5435: If someone makes a living by posting LP's then they need to go get a real job. This sort of stuff is supposed to be just a damn hobby, not what puts bread on the table. I have no sympathy for people who aren't getting paid for these because they shouldn't have been getting paid in the first place.


Wow, someone's angry. Tell us more about your irrational hatred of people who don't make a living the way you think they should.
 
2013-05-17 04:31:10 PM  

Well I use Mac/Linux...: Luminaro: star_topology: Of course, there are guys out there with a good schtick like James Rolfe (AVGN) and maybe even Toby Turner to a degree who seems to know what he's doing. Personally, I'll listen to Totalbiscuit, and watch anything Jesse Cox does, he cracks me up. GameGrumps (JonTron) as well. They are good time killers.

and then there's this guy...
[img.photobucket.com image 400x266]

You hit all my video game youtube subscriptions in one post!

Though I also subscribe to Josh Jepson.

His DKC:R LP with Superjeenius is one of my favorites.  So many lulz.


"Blanabas!"
 
2013-05-17 07:05:44 PM  
As someone who watches a heap of shows on YouTube that I otherwise would never have access to, at least not without a great deal of hassle (shows like "Qi", "never mind the buzzcocks", etc), my whole thought was that hopefully other copyright holders do the same. These channels are often under threat of shutting down, and if this is a viable compromise that allows this stuff stay up, as a fan, I'm for it.

I can't speak for the people who put the effort of regularly posting these episodes, so I can't say ad revenue is or isn't thier primary motivation for doing so, this just stood out for me as a way of keeping thier channels threat-free.
 
2013-05-17 07:42:27 PM  

Kinek: broadsword: I heard 2 people discussing the last Zelda game over by the water cooler this week - I assume Nintendo wants to sue the crap out of them for infringing on their copyright?

I give it 5 years before the 'Synposis' sections of wikipedia pages on TV / Film / Games all go because of over-reaching stuff like this.

I sometimes read these rather than watching a movie or playing a game. I guess that that's lost sales, and yes, Nintendo and every media company should not allow synopsis or commentary of any type.


I get understand the reasoning behind that idea, but I've always thought this is the exact middle-point / grey area on this sort of thing. On one hand you have a discussion (online, group of people) and on the other you have a content holder saying that it's copyright infringement for saying/revealing something.

I've never saw that there's actually a winner in this (maybe a 'common sense' winner and a 'technically right' winner) but it really comes down to either the public/masses gets the win or the content holders. Personally I think the masses should win, mainly because if you give in to the content holders they'll keep pushing to get 'wins' on something else (eg. "I want a nickel everytime someone says 'Dr Octopus'"). If you give into the consumers and expand/entrench fair use more, the masses go on about their day and the market evolves to fit.
 
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