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(Ars Technica)   Newegg saves e-commerce from the grip of trolls - again   (arstechnica.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, Alcatel-Lucent, newegg, Intuit, Zappos, e-commerces, QVC, Bell Labs  
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22995 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2013 at 12:44 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-16 12:43:09 PM  
Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.
 
2013-05-16 12:46:23 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


I came here to say the same thing.
 
2013-05-16 12:48:40 PM  
there are so many words...
 
2013-05-16 12:49:04 PM  
<i>"Successful defendants have their litigation managed by people who care," said Cheng. "For me, it's easy. I believe in Newegg, I care about Newegg. Alcatel Lucent, meanwhile, they drag out some random VP-who happens to be a decorated Navy veteran, who happens to be handsome and has a beautiful wife and kids-but the guy didn't know what patents were being asserted. What a joke.

"Shareholders of public companies that engage in patent trolling should ask themselves if they're really well-served by their management teams," Cheng added. "Are they properly monetizing their R&D? Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents. If I was a shareholder, I would take a hard look as to whether their management was competent."</i>

Ha. Utter smackdown
 
2013-05-16 12:49:39 PM  
Oh fark...you and your html buttons
 
2013-05-16 12:51:24 PM  
Alcatel's products are also utter shiat.

I worked for a major international for quite a few years, and we had an Alcatel PABX phone system. It regularly crashed and had to be rebooted -- killing everybody's calls in the process, and taking their phones offline. It also had a rather nasty bug in that when a single extension passed a threshold for a certain number of voicemails, all the voicemails to every single phone in both our buildings would vanish.

According to our facilities manager, Alcatel had sent engineers from their corporate HQ in France to look at the thing numerous times, replacing every single hardware component, making custom builds of firmware just for us, and so on -- yet to my knowledge they never figured out either problem in the numerous years I was with the company.
 
2013-05-16 12:52:06 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


They always get my business.
 
2013-05-16 12:53:31 PM  

braedan: there are so many words...


static.neatoshop.com
"Good Luck we are all counting on you." seems oddly appropriate.
/Hotlinking from the sidebar, is that wrong?
 
2013-05-16 12:54:01 PM  
Can we burn trolls at the stake?
 
2013-05-16 12:54:51 PM  
The good news is, we won this case on every point. The bad news is, we're running out of lawsuits. There are fewer trolls for us to fight. I've spent a lot of time over the last seven years figuring out what to do with these guys. There are strategies I think would be really neat and effective that I literally can't execute. I can't make good law because I don't have any appellate cases left.

www.s9.com

I know that feel, bro.
 
2013-05-16 12:55:46 PM  
Bell Labs was a national treasure.    It has always fascinated me that there was such a strong civic ethic at Bell that they would plow millions (probably billions in CY dollars) into blue-sky research... a lot of which benefited them, obviously, but even more of which has proven to benefit society at large.

Alcatel-Lucent seem like cockroaches scurrying around the Metropolitan Museum by comparison.
 
2013-05-16 12:56:13 PM  
NewEgg's headquarters are the next block over from where I am sitting right now, at the desk in the building where I work.

Kinda feel like walking over there on my lunch break and hugging some folks.
 
2013-05-16 12:56:36 PM  

squibbits: BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.

I came here to say the same thing.

 
2013-05-16 12:56:45 PM  
www.solidsignal.com
 
2013-05-16 12:57:11 PM  
I hold a patent on overzealous usage of the hero tag, so I'm getting a kickback out of these replies.
 
2013-05-16 12:58:04 PM  
Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?
 
2013-05-16 12:59:26 PM  
somebody should patent "patent trolling" that way if anyone does sue and manages to make a buck, they can sue them and take a portion back
 
2013-05-16 01:00:57 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?


Newegg.com is a computer parts and software vendor. Like amazon only more focused with better reviews.
 
2013-05-16 01:01:04 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


Newegg is an awesome company and when I first started shopping for PC parts no one could beat Neweggs prices on anything, all of my local computer shops were just too expensive. But lately I've been shopping at Amazon for computer stuff, the prices are just too good and with Amazon Prime the shipping is usually free 2 day delivery. Newegg still has the bigger selection though.
 
2013-05-16 01:01:29 PM  
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
  To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
  Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
  And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
  And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
  To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
  We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
  But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
  You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
  For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
  You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
  No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
  And the nation that plays it is lost!"

 - Rudyard Kipling
 
2013-05-16 01:02:05 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?


A farking fantastic online electronics retailer.  Just type in their name +.com and there you go.

They were already awesome before fighting online trolls, this type of stuff just makes me continue to give them business.
 
2013-05-16 01:02:34 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?


NewEgg.com.

// it's dot-com!

EddyKilowatt: Bell Labs was a national treasure. It has always fascinated me that there was such a strong civic ethic at Bell that they would plow millions (probably billions in CY dollars) into blue-sky research... a lot of which benefited them, obviously, but even more of which has proven to benefit society at large.


Google does this - they actually allow their employees to dedicate up to 25% of their working hours to blue-sky stuff like that. IIRC, it's how we ended up with Maps, Reader, Mail and more than one other "in-the-pipe" tech.

Patents are supposed to be used for furthering innovation - (again IIRC) just sitting on a patent long enough can invalidate it, or maybe it's only when the holder actively prevents anything from happening with it.

// not a lawyer
 
2013-05-16 01:02:47 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I hold a patent on overzealous usage of the hero tag, so I'm getting a kickback out of these replies.


Lucky.  I'm applying for a patent for the incorrect usage of literal versus figurative speech, but all this paperwork is literally killing me.
 
2013-05-16 01:03:14 PM  
And once again, "because I said so" fails utterly.

Thanks, Newegg. I will continue to patronize your store.
 
2013-05-16 01:03:38 PM  
Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.
 
2013-05-16 01:06:17 PM  

Walker: BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.

They always get my business.


This. It's always a pleasure doing business with Newegg.
 
2013-05-16 01:08:00 PM  

TheSelphie: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

A farking fantastic online electronics retailer.  Just type in their name +.com and there you go.

They were already awesome before fighting online trolls, this type of stuff just makes me continue to give them business.


Newegg isn't going to give you a reach-around.

They are a good business (and a sometime corporate White Knight), but they are still a business. I have spent plenty of money there, but have recently found their pricing to be a little on the high side. Microcenter and Frys will generally beat them on price.
 
2013-05-16 01:09:17 PM  

you are a puppet: Shareholders of public companies that engage in patent trolling should ask themselves if they're really well-served by their management teams," Cheng added. "Are they properly monetizing their R&D? Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents. If I was a shareholder, I would take a hard look as to whether their management was competent."

Ha. Utter smackdown


Yeah, you know how I know he's a great litigator? It's not that he won this case--I have no idea if that was difficult. It's the care with which he's carefully sharpened these little knives he keeps sticking in the backs of his already-defeated opponent.

Any other lawyer would already be buying Alcatel's CEO a consolatory round of drinks at the country club now. This guy was up late the night AFTER the trial, making sure he had five different ways of saying "fark you" for every interview question he might be asked.

He might have done more damage in the short term just by shiatting all over their stock price than by dinking their business model.
 
2013-05-16 01:12:36 PM  
Its been a few weeks since I bought something from Newegg, this is a good reason to buy something from them stat! hmm so many choices. Last time I bought a 64 GB USB 3.0 thumbdrive for $30. Maybe I should get a 4 TB drive just for kicks.
 
2013-05-16 01:13:09 PM  
Shame that more companies are able or willing to fight trolls like this.
 
2013-05-16 01:14:16 PM  

madgonad: TheSelphie: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

A farking fantastic online electronics retailer.  Just type in their name +.com and there you go.

They were already awesome before fighting online trolls, this type of stuff just makes me continue to give them business.

Newegg isn't going to give you a reach-around.

They are a good business (and a sometime corporate White Knight), but they are still a business. I have spent plenty of money there, but have recently found their pricing to be a little on the high side. Microcenter and Frys will generally beat them on price.


Unfortunately we don't have Microcenter or Fry's locally.  I mostly buy videogames from them (they often have great sales on preorders), my husband sometimes buys computer parts from them.  We're definitely not hardcore shoppers there but we give them regular business.
 
2013-05-16 01:15:24 PM  
I buy a ton of stuff from NewEgg. Great company with good policies.
 
2013-05-16 01:15:33 PM  
Newegg : Patent Trolls :: Young USA : Barbary Pirates
 
2013-05-16 01:16:03 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


^ THIS

Ftfa: "The bad news is, we're running out of lawsuits. There are fewer trolls for us to fight."

I'm gonna just find electronics to blow money on.
 
2013-05-16 01:19:26 PM  
fark year!
Go NewEgg! I have been buying PC equipment from them for probably a decade. You know, I think I will order that hard drive from them today.
 
2013-05-16 01:21:56 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?


www.newegg.com

Go buy a flash drive or something. :)
 
2013-05-16 01:22:35 PM  

madgonad: TheSelphie: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

A farking fantastic online electronics retailer.  Just type in their name +.com and there you go.

They were already awesome before fighting online trolls, this type of stuff just makes me continue to give them business.

Newegg isn't going to give you a reach-around.

They are a good business (and a sometime corporate White Knight), but they are still a business. I have spent plenty of money there, but have recently found their pricing to be a little on the high side. Microcenter and Frys will generally beat them on price.


Microcenter has a bricks and mortar store a few blocks from my house, which I visit pretty frequently.... but their website SUCKS. Newegg does not have a store near me, but their website is AWESOME. I end up splitting my business between the two.

Microcenter's prices are usually the best, but when they don't have something I want in their store Newegg is the online store I get it from and they have some good sales too. Amazon Prime I use for all my non-computer purchases, like stuff for my garden. It's awesome to get a wheelbarrow delivered in 1-2 days and not pay shipping.
 
2013-05-16 01:24:49 PM  
This box may contain AWESOME!


DeathCipris: fark year!
Go NewEgg! I have been buying PC equipment from them for probably a decade. You know, I think I will order that hard drive from them today.


Ditto. And I love the fact that for 99% of the items I order, I receive them the following day!
 
2013-05-16 01:25:31 PM  
There must be a special circle of hell for patent trolls. In a perfect world, they would land there after passing on. Then, they'd be confronted with a team of hell's best lawyers, bringing suit against them for violating a method patent on being happy and pain-free and treating them accordingly...

//lost a tiny business to a web patent troll, still a little bitter. They bring no value to the world.
 
2013-05-16 01:25:37 PM  
I don't know why I read articles like this even when they have a happy ending. Just knowing this type of douche baggery is going on makes me wish death on the entire legal system.
 
2013-05-16 01:26:55 PM  
Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.
 
2013-05-16 01:29:38 PM  
The article doesn't mention what the '131 patent was invalid over, but fortunately, all of the trial documents are up on PACER. It looks like the piece of prior art used was the X Window System, as described in the Xlib Programming Manual for Version 11, Vol. 1.

Interestingly (particularly with the CLS Bank case that was just decided), patent eligibility under 35 USC 101 didn't seem to be an issue at trial. Which is surprising, 'cause I can't believe those claims would pass muster under the CLS analysis.

For reference, the claims that were asserted were 1 and 5:

1. A method of operating a host processor communicating with a terminal device, said method comprising the steps of

assigning an identifier to a respective one of a plurality of input object types, and

transmitting said identifier and its respective input object type to said device, wherein said plurality of object types includes at least two of the object types choice, entry, text, and image.


5. A method of operating a host processor communicating with a terminal device, said method comprising the steps of

assigning an identifier to a respective one of a plurality of predefined presentation data types, said host being the originator of said identifier and said presentation data types,

transmitting said identifier and its respective presentation data type to said device, and

further transmitting to said device at least a first datum, and

providing at said device a second datum that is a function of said first datum.
 
2013-05-16 01:29:40 PM  

mongbiohazard: madgonad: TheSelphie: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

A farking fantastic online electronics retailer.  Just type in their name +.com and there you go.

They were already awesome before fighting online trolls, this type of stuff just makes me continue to give them business.

Newegg isn't going to give you a reach-around.

They are a good business (and a sometime corporate White Knight), but they are still a business. I have spent plenty of money there, but have recently found their pricing to be a little on the high side. Microcenter and Frys will generally beat them on price.

Microcenter has a bricks and mortar store a few blocks from my house, which I visit pretty frequently.... but their website SUCKS. Newegg does not have a store near me, but their website is AWESOME. I end up splitting my business between the two.

Microcenter's prices are usually the best, but when they don't have something I want in their store Newegg is the online store I get it from and they have some good sales too. Amazon Prime I use for all my non-computer purchases, like stuff for my garden. It's awesome to get a wheelbarrow delivered in 1-2 days and not pay shipping.


Microcenter's website does its job - it tells me when to hoof it into the store. Newgg's is outstanding, but while inventory is quite good their pricing tends to run higher. Amazon is kind of a fall-back for me. They depend too much on partners (with high prices) for computer gear.
 
2013-05-16 01:29:45 PM  
Hey Corporate America-- this is an example of a company DOING IT RIGHT.
Hey patent trolls-- go suck a bag of dicks and find a new line of work, scumbags.
 
2013-05-16 01:32:15 PM  
I opened a preferred account there a few years ago. Got my ASUS Transformer a few months back.
 
2013-05-16 01:33:13 PM  

mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.


I bought some plastic OXO kitchen containers from them a few years ago, and when it arrived, 2 of the 7 were completely shattered in the box. Called them up, and they straight up refunded my money and I got to keep the other 5. I ended up throwing them all away because they were terrible, but I didn't expect to get them for free at at all. They've had 95% of my computer parts business since I was 14.
 
2013-05-16 01:33:40 PM  
Used to order from Newegg all the time, until I got Amazon Prime. May have to start giving Newegg business again.
 
2013-05-16 01:34:07 PM  

gweilo8888: Alcatel's products are also utter shiat.

I worked for a major international for quite a few years, and we had an Alcatel PABX phone system. It regularly crashed and had to be rebooted -- killing everybody's calls in the process, and taking their phones offline. It also had a rather nasty bug in that when a single extension passed a threshold for a certain number of voicemails, all the voicemails to every single phone in both our buildings would vanish.

According to our facilities manager, Alcatel had sent engineers from their corporate HQ in France to look at the thing numerous times, replacing every single hardware component, making custom builds of firmware just for us, and so on -- yet to my knowledge they never figured out either problem in the numerous years I was with the company.


That's actually a patent of theirs; they are using to sue any company where the phone system crashes.
 
2013-05-16 01:35:09 PM  

The Flexecutioner: [www.solidsignal.com image 850x170]


This...and they will be getting my business soon.
 
2013-05-16 01:35:44 PM  

Random Discord: This box may contain AWESOME!


DeathCipris: fark year!
Go NewEgg! I have been buying PC equipment from them for probably a decade. You know, I think I will order that hard drive from them today.

Ditto. And I love the fact that for 99% of the items I order, I receive them the following day!


I think they use matter transport shipping or some craziness.
 
2013-05-16 01:37:51 PM  

Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.


Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.
 
2013-05-16 01:43:54 PM  
I usually shop prices on what I need, but I think that will stop.  I'm willing to spend a few extra bucks at Newegg.  Good on them for not falling into the "just pay them" trap.  I can't believe QVC didn't fight.  As much as I don't like them, QVC is HUGE.
 
2013-05-16 01:43:57 PM  

Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.


That LT Win modem was a POS...I replaced it with a US Robotics 56k modem. Loved that thing and it worked like a damn champ.
 
2013-05-16 01:45:38 PM  
So, just me wondering....   So, now that someone has litigated against this, do these other companies stop payments to the troll company (I assume they just didn't write a big fat check, they are on some sort of "payment schedule" with the troll company), knowing that they have case law in their favor now (which was their worry before I am thinking, a big "unknown" legal wise).

Just wondering how wide this case casts the net... I am sure it stops the trolls from going forward with more lawsuits, but, does it also help the companies that didn't want to fight earlier?
 
2013-05-16 01:48:46 PM  
Go NewEgg!

Now, 2 questions:

1.  Why a trial in East Texas, of all places?  I'm assuming friendlier filing rules there?
2.  Alcatel's no shell company.  How the heck to they get so deep into patent trolling without the SEC looking into it?
 
2013-05-16 01:49:33 PM  

dletter: So, just me wondering....   So, now that someone has litigated against this, do these other companies stop payments to the troll company (I assume they just didn't write a big fat check, they are on some sort of "payment schedule" with the troll company), knowing that they have case law in their favor now (which was their worry before I am thinking, a big "unknown" legal wise).

Just wondering how wide this case casts the net... I am sure it stops the trolls from going forward with more lawsuits, but, does it also help the companies that didn't want to fight earlier?


Depends entirely on their settlement agreements. They can include a clause that you get to stop future payments if the patent is invalidated; include a clause that you get some money refunded if the patent is invalidated; or could even include a clause that requires you to keep paying even if the patent is invalidated. It's all negotiable.
 
2013-05-16 01:51:59 PM  
I'd love to support them, but they still think I owe them money on a hard drive I never received back in 2005. Whether it means anything to them or not, they have lost thousands of dollars from me in the last 8 years over a $79 dispute. Sorry Newegg.
 
2013-05-16 01:52:21 PM  

Rickenbacker: I usually shop prices on what I need, but I think that will stop.  I'm willing to spend a few extra bucks at Newegg.  Good on them for not falling into the "just pay them" trap.  I can't believe QVC didn't fight.  As much as I don't like them, QVC is HUGE.


Someone with more knownledge than me can back me up on this, but, my guess is it primarily comes down to....

QVC is part of Liberty Media, which is a public company.   NewEgg is a private company.

Public companies have to worry about shareholders, so, everything comes down to dollars and cents... it will be cheaper in the next 10 years to just give them some money than fight it in court, so, cave.   NewEgg likely had "cool" people at the top who said "Screw them, even if we lose 25% of our company net profit, I don't want the trolls to win".

Honestly... if you care about this kind of stuff, knowing which companies are Public vs. Private is a pretty good want to funnel who you do business with, especially if you hear good things about how they operate, such as this, and knowing how they treat employees, etc.   Once you go public, it is all about shareholder value.
 
2013-05-16 01:53:58 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: 1.  Why a trial in East Texas, of all places?  I'm assuming friendlier filing rules there?


Somewhat friendlier filing rules, in terms of costs and such, but more importantly, nothing else happens in east Texas, so there are no federal criminal cases in queue that the patent suits would have to wait for. So, it became a "rocket docket" where you could go to trial and potentially be done within a year. That's important for trolls, because they have no revenue other than settlements or judgements, so they don't want to be tied up waiting for years.

The juries are also marginally friendlier to plaintiffs - though some of that is because the plaintiffs all have local Texas lawyers, while the defendants usually have out-of-state New Yawk City?! lawyers or the like.
More importantly, it's a place where there aren't any defendants... It's not like suing Apple in Cupertino, or Microsoft in Redmond, where the jury members will likely have friends who work for the defendant, will have nice schools paid by local property taxes from the defendant, etc. So maybe it's less that the jury isn't pro-plaintiff, but that they're not pro-defendant.

2.  Alcatel's no shell company.  How the heck to they get so deep into patent trolling without the SEC looking into it?

There's nothing illegal about asserting your patent rights. The SEC wouldn't blink an eye.
 
2013-05-16 01:55:32 PM  
Now can someone sue Amazon.com for charging for Prime free shipping then forcing customers to spend $25 to buy most of what they want as Add-On items.

You know why I quit ordering more than one item at a time from Amazon? Because two or more items meant insufficient packing materials and thus incredibly damaged goods. EVERY FARKING ORDER. Like a plastic jar of powdered pickling spices pouring all over my electronics items. So don't blame me and others like me that quit buying huge orders at a time from Amazon.com only to see a jumbled mess of broken, damaged items.

Yeah, and spending time repackaging, calling Amazon.com customer service to arrange pickup of damaged items, then waiting a few days for the new items to appear and for the old items to be picked up (the record was 5 days of a driver showing up and leaving without picking up returning items) isn't fun.

Additionally, Amazon.com has apparently decided to avoid overhead by cutting inventories and just stocking items for other sellers. GREAT IDEA! That way, when I order something from Amazon.com, some putz in Florida hands Amazon.com some item I have no way of tracing its storage, pull date, etc. Then Amazon.com FULFILLS the order by under-packing the box and sending it out to me WITH NO WAY FOR ME TO TRACK THE ITEM. The last 5 orders I placed with Amazon.com all came back with "We're sorry. We are unable to provide tracking information at this time." Yeah, the 90's called. Tracking information is a absolute necessity for some and pretty much a requirement for proper customer care.

So, in sum, Quintillius Varus, give me back my Amazon.com!

i500.listal.com

In other words, I'm buying a lot more from Newegg.com and Walmart.com lately.
 
2013-05-16 01:59:14 PM  

mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.


Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.
 
2013-05-16 01:59:27 PM  

dletter: QVC is part of Liberty Media, which is a public company.   NewEgg is a private company.


Likely a huge part of it.

Defending a big patent lawsuit can cost between 1-3 million, sometimes much more. Sometimes, it's a pure economic decision that says "we can pay out $20k per month for the next four years, or we can pay $150k per month to our attorneys for the next year, plus potentially another $50k per month for the next four years and a big chunk of money for back payments if we're found liable."

For a really small company (not that NewEgg is one), it can actually be significantly cheaper to settle because the troll may only want to have a few licensees they can point to to then go after the big guys. So your tiny garage-based company with your $200k in revenue per year may end up with a $1k/month license fee, provided you keep it secret.
 
2013-05-16 02:00:23 PM  
Theaetetus:

2.  Alcatel's no shell company.  How the heck to they get so deep into patent trolling without the SEC looking into it?

There's nothing illegal about asserting your patent rights. The SEC wouldn't blink an eye.


I get that they legally got the patents from Bell Labs, but in most cases, they can't even prove what (if any) infringement actually took place.  They're essentially using their patents for extortion.  You'd like tot hink the SEC would not like that...but then again, it's the SEC we're talking about.
 
2013-05-16 02:01:04 PM  

madgonad: Newegg isn't going to give you a reach-around.

They are a good business (and a sometime corporate White Knight), but they are still a business. I have spent plenty of money there, but have recently found their pricing to be a little on the high side.


The rest of us are more than happy to spend an extra few dollars to support Newegg, knowing they behave like they do in cases like these. In the end, their legal team is helping all of us with lower prices and more innovation. Would you rather kick $5 to Newegg now or spend $10 more on everything forever because everyone bent and spread for a patent troll and the consumer -- hey, that's us -- gets to backfill that loss?

Then again, that's also the argument for comprehensive national healthcare. And you see how well that went over.

At the end of the day, money's only money. Doing good is better.
 
2013-05-16 02:03:31 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Now can someone sue Amazon.com for charging for Prime free shipping then forcing customers to spend $25 to buy most of what they want as Add-On items.

You know why I quit ordering more than one item at a time from Amazon? Because two or more items meant insufficient packing materials and thus incredibly damaged goods. EVERY FARKING ORDER. Like a plastic jar of powdered pickling spices pouring all over my electronics items. So don't blame me and others like me that quit buying huge orders at a time from Amazon.com only to see a jumbled mess of broken, damaged items.

Yeah, and spending time repackaging, calling Amazon.com customer service to arrange pickup of damaged items, then waiting a few days for the new items to appear and for the old items to be picked up (the record was 5 days of a driver showing up and leaving without picking up returning items) isn't fun.

Additionally, Amazon.com has apparently decided to avoid overhead by cutting inventories and just stocking items for other sellers. GREAT IDEA! That way, when I order something from Amazon.com, some putz in Florida hands Amazon.com some item I have no way of tracing its storage, pull date, etc. Then Amazon.com FULFILLS the order by under-packing the box and sending it out to me WITH NO WAY FOR ME TO TRACK THE ITEM. The last 5 orders I placed with Amazon.com all came back with "We're sorry. We are unable to provide tracking information at this time." Yeah, the 90's called. Tracking information is a absolute necessity for some and pretty much a requirement for proper customer care.

So, in sum, Quintillius Varus, give me back my Amazon.com!

[i500.listal.com image 350x258]

In other words, I'm buying a lot more from Newegg.com and Walmart.com lately.


I stopped supporting those asshats over at Amazon the moment I found out they were backing this bassackwards Internet Sales Tax bill. fark you, Amazon. I will take my money elsewhere, even if I have to spend more.
 
2013-05-16 02:04:34 PM  

italie: I'd love to support them, but they still think I owe them money on a hard drive I never received back in 2005. Whether it means anything to them or not, they have lost thousands of dollars from me in the last 8 years over a $79 dispute. Sorry Newegg.


Oh come on now...tell us the story
 
2013-05-16 02:06:33 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.

Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.


Newegg.com once in a while sells these things for $28.

static1.fatwalletcdn.com

I love mine--it didn't come with the lid holder or a ring--but for $28 I wouldn't be heart-broken if I dropped it or it went up in flames. I use the thing on the patio mostly anyways.
 
2013-05-16 02:08:46 PM  
Go newegg. Man I haven't thought about modems for a long time. US robotics made a solid 56K external that I had hooked up to my router till DSL came. It took so long to get one song. But you didn't get sued back then. Oh the piles of useless tech I probably have in a bin someplace in the attic.
 
2013-05-16 02:10:07 PM  

Endive Wombat: italie: I'd love to support them, but they still think I owe them money on a hard drive I never received back in 2005. Whether it means anything to them or not, they have lost thousands of dollars from me in the last 8 years over a $79 dispute. Sorry Newegg.

Oh come on now...tell us the story


I think he probably already did.... sounds like he bought a hard drive for $79, he never got it, so he disputed the charge on his card, NewEgg says "No, you definitely have the drive"... guy hasn't bought anything from them since.

My only question there is, was there no tracking on the package?   If it was tracked via UPS/FedEx, then, he'd have to sign for it... unless it is suggested it was left on a doorstep or something, and someone stole it.  But, if you request for them (FedEx, UPS) to just leave the package "somewhere" public (ie, at the front door), you are basically responsible at that point I think for any theft(?) issues.   That isn't FedEx's fault, nor certainly New Eggs.
 
2013-05-16 02:11:36 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-16 02:13:23 PM  

Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.


CSB time: I worked at Hayes for 14 years. Toward the end, we were using both Rockwell and Lucent chipsets for the modems. In general, the Lucent ones were LESS buggy. But the Win Modem was a total POS in so very many ways. In all cases, though, we did a lot of custom firmware to work around issues where possible and to implement additional features. But I remember having to test many modems due to "upgrades" in the basic chipset.


/QA Manager was the last title I had there
//Hayes modems were pricey but damn good...until near the end when things were spiraling down the drain
///Best company I ever worked for, particularly in the early years.
 
2013-05-16 02:15:09 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Like a plastic jar of powdered pickling spices pouring all over my electronics items. So don't blame me


You do understand there is an option while ordering to have them in separate boxes.
 
Skr
2013-05-16 02:16:22 PM  
That lawyer Mr. Cheng sounds like a really awesome guy. Glad Newegg didn't capitulate. Really enjoy using their service already.
 
2013-05-16 02:19:50 PM  
Good on newegg for litigating, as it is in fact the only way lots of these crusty old pre-KSR patents will get tossed.

Not sure if Alcatel counts as an actual troll here, but have no problem seeing them go down.
 
2013-05-16 02:21:20 PM  
Anytime someone says, "How about jack shiat and go fark yourself," to a patent troll, we all win.
 
2013-05-16 02:21:56 PM  

Choestoe: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

CSB time: I worked at Hayes for 14 years. Toward the end, we were using both Rockwell and Lucent chipsets for the modems. In general, the Lucent ones were LESS buggy. But the Win Modem was a total POS in so very many ways. In all cases, though, we did a lot of custom firmware to work around issues where possible and to implement additional features. But I remember having to test many modems due to "upgrades" in the basic chipset.


/QA Manager was the last title I had there
//Hayes modems were pricey but damn good...until near the end when things were spiraling down the drain
///Best company I ever worked for, particularly in the early years.


Did two contracts there.
Dennis was truly an innovator and his Ex Wife is truly SPECIAL.
Anything DSL related pretty much evolved from that company.
 
2013-05-16 02:22:03 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: TheShavingofOccam123: Like a plastic jar of powdered pickling spices pouring all over my electronics items. So don't blame me

You do understand there is an option while ordering to have them in separate boxes.


Yes. Yes, I do.


BUT WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR A COMPANY THAT PRIDES ITSELF ON CUSTOMER SERVICE TO PROPERLY PACKAGE ITEMS TOGETHER?  I WOULD LIKE ALL OF MY ITEMS IN ONCE BOX.

Sorry I flared.

The worst Amazon.com experience I had was the boxed assortment of bagged food items. Some warehouse employee had spent a few weeks removing a bag from the torn-open box, eating the all the contents, then wadding the empty bag up and shoving it back into the box. He had eaten about 6 or 7 bags and was still working on the 8th when the box was shipped to me. He thoughtfully included the half-eaten bag in the box.

/Then there was the worm in my bottle of wine club cabernet...
 
2013-05-16 02:22:12 PM  
between newegg and monoprice i never have to leave the house for electronic/computer needs
 
2013-05-16 02:23:14 PM  
@dletter... (Quote button fail on android)Basically never received the first drive. They immediately shipped a second which I did get. They also billed the second to me. I called to fix the whole "I paid for two drives but got one" and it got ugly. After 2 weeks of arguing my point I reversed the charges on one of the drives. They battled with my CC for six month, eventually banning my name and address from ordering. I didn't even know I was banned until placing a $1500 order some months later.
 
2013-05-16 02:27:43 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Theaetetus:

2.  Alcatel's no shell company.  How the heck to they get so deep into patent trolling without the SEC looking into it?

There's nothing illegal about asserting your patent rights. The SEC wouldn't blink an eye.

I get that they legally got the patents from Bell Labs, but in most cases, they can't even prove what (if any) infringement actually took place.  They're essentially using their patents for extortion.  You'd like tot hink the SEC would not like that...but then again, it's the SEC we're talking about.


No, they were able to get past summary judgement motions to trial. To defeat a motion for summary judgement, the plaintiff has to show that they've provided enough proof that a reasonable jury  could find that infringement took place. Now, that's a relatively low bar, but it's still a real one. Technically, a jury could reasonably have believed their experts and found NewEgg to infringe. And yes, I know the article has a quote referring to some Alcatel VP who couldn't name the patents or technologies in suit, but forget the quote cherry picking, and realize that there were months and months of motions and filings back and forth.

And so, for an analogy to more familiar territory, it's like you've got enough evidence to bring charges, but (as it turns out), not enough to convince the jury to convict. Does that mean you engaged in extortion when you brought the charges or if you offered a plea bargain? No... you had a reasonable possibility of winning.
 
Ant
2013-05-16 02:28:53 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Satanic_Hamster: mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.

Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.

Newegg.com once in a while sells these things for $28.

[static1.fatwalletcdn.com image 200x200]

I love mine--it didn't come with the lid holder or a ring--but for $28 I wouldn't be heart-broken if I dropped it or it went up in flames. I use the thing on the patio mostly anyways.


What is that?
 
2013-05-16 02:29:00 PM  
Newegg customer for almost 10 years now, never had a problem with them, RMA'ed a few items over the years with no issues whatsoever.

Well played Newegg, well played.
 
2013-05-16 02:30:32 PM  
"yeah, but, yo, like, ya ahnnah, see, I patented this, like" "paper cup", see?  And like, all dese muthaf*ckas are, like, selling Kool Aid in MY cup and I need PAID!"  "Go home, dolt."  yay.
 
2013-05-16 02:31:30 PM  
As an aside, it actually is a little surprising that the jury found non-infringement. A parameterized HTTP POST request could read on that first claim.
 
2013-05-16 02:35:48 PM  
As someone who uses newegg.com exclusively when it comes to buying computer parts online, I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2013-05-16 02:36:03 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Princess Ryans Knickers: TheShavingofOccam123: Like a plastic jar of powdered pickling spices pouring all over my electronics items. So don't blame me

You do understand there is an option while ordering to have them in separate boxes.

Yes. Yes, I do.


BUT WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR A COMPANY THAT PRIDES ITSELF ON CUSTOMER SERVICE TO PROPERLY PACKAGE ITEMS TOGETHER?  I WOULD LIKE ALL OF MY ITEMS IN ONCE BOX.

Sorry I flared.

The worst Amazon.com experience I had was the boxed assortment of bagged food items. Some warehouse employee had spent a few weeks removing a bag from the torn-open box, eating the all the contents, then wadding the empty bag up and shoving it back into the box. He had eaten about 6 or 7 bags and was still working on the 8th when the box was shipped to me. He thoughtfully included the half-eaten bag in the box.

/Then there was the worm in my bottle of wine club cabernet...


Counter ancedotal point.

I have never had an issue with amazon shipping. And I get on average two packages a week for the past three years.
 
2013-05-16 02:37:02 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: In other words, I'm buying a lot more from Newegg.com and Walmart.com lately.


I was totally on board until that was said.  As awful as both of those businesses are I just refuse to give walmart money.  I bought a Prime membership back in January cuz it came with a discount on a new xbox bundle.  it was pretty much for the Instant video stuff cuz i just dont buy a lot of stuff to save more than $80 in shipping.  now 5 months later there is no way in hell i'll re-up with them for $80 for a piss-poor selection of titles.  but the free shipping has come in handy a couple times but at best saved me $20.  lesson learned, yada yada yada but im never supplanting amazon (or anyone else) for walamart.  ever.
 
2013-05-16 02:37:58 PM  

Ant: TheShavingofOccam123: Satanic_Hamster: mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.

Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.

Newegg.com once in a while sells these things for $28.

[static1.fatwalletcdn.com image 200x200]

I love mine--it didn't come with the lid holder or a ring--but for $28 I wouldn't be heart-broken if I dropped it or it went up in flames. I use the thing on the patio mostly anyways.

What is that?


It's a Rosewill Convection oven. Has a heat lamp inside along with a fan. Does something very well; others not so much. But if I can cook outside and not stink the house up for $28, I'm in.
 
2013-05-16 02:38:17 PM  

The Flexecutioner: [www.solidsignal.com image 850x170]


Those should be eggs instead of stars.
 
2013-05-16 02:41:38 PM  

Another Government Employee: Choestoe: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

CSB time: I worked at Hayes for 14 years. Toward the end, we were using both Rockwell and Lucent chipsets for the modems. In general, the Lucent ones were LESS buggy. But the Win Modem was a total POS in so very many ways. In all cases, though, we did a lot of custom firmware to work around issues where possible and to implement additional features. But I remember having to test many modems due to "upgrades" in the basic chipset.


/QA Manager was the last title I had there
//Hayes modems were pricey but damn good...until near the end when things were spiraling down the drain
///Best company I ever worked for, particularly in the early years.

Did two contracts there.
Dennis was truly an innovator and his Ex Wife is truly SPECIAL.
Anything DSL related pretty much evolved from that company.


Heh - which ex-wife? Both cost him a pile of money, but in different ways...
 
2013-05-16 02:41:43 PM  

The Flexecutioner: TheShavingofOccam123: In other words, I'm buying a lot more from Newegg.com and Walmart.com lately.

I was totally on board until that was said.  As awful as both of those businesses are I just refuse to give walmart money.  I bought a Prime membership back in January cuz it came with a discount on a new xbox bundle.  it was pretty much for the Instant video stuff cuz i just dont buy a lot of stuff to save more than $80 in shipping.  now 5 months later there is no way in hell i'll re-up with them for $80 for a piss-poor selection of titles.  but the free shipping has come in handy a couple times but at best saved me $20.  lesson learned, yada yada yada but im never supplanting amazon (or anyone else) for walamart.  ever.


I hear you about Walmart. They have a bad habit of "processing" orders then letting customers know a few days later, they never had the item in stock.

My most recent experiences with Walmart.com have been far better than my earlier experiences. And they don't charge me $80 a year so I can buy $25 worth of stuff just to buy the things I need. (Haven't actually done that; bought at other online retailers instead.) Won't be re-Priming when mine expires. Unless I figure video is worth it then but it isn't right now.
 
2013-05-16 02:49:40 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: The Flexecutioner: TheShavingofOccam123: In other words, I'm buying a lot more from Newegg.com and Walmart.com lately.

I was totally on board until that was said.  As awful as both of those businesses are I just refuse to give walmart money.  I bought a Prime membership back in January cuz it came with a discount on a new xbox bundle.  it was pretty much for the Instant video stuff cuz i just dont buy a lot of stuff to save more than $80 in shipping.  now 5 months later there is no way in hell i'll re-up with them for $80 for a piss-poor selection of titles.  but the free shipping has come in handy a couple times but at best saved me $20.  lesson learned, yada yada yada but im never supplanting amazon (or anyone else) for walamart.  ever.

I hear you about Walmart. They have a bad habit of "processing" orders then letting customers know a few days later, they never had the item in stock.

My most recent experiences with Walmart.com have been far better than my earlier experiences. And they don't charge me $80 a year so I can buy $25 worth of stuff just to buy the things I need. (Haven't actually done that; bought at other online retailers instead.) Won't be re-Priming when mine expires. Unless I figure video is worth it then but it isn't right now.


There were some rumblings that they might drop it from $80 but it would have to be about half that for me to justify it and it couldn't have some major changes for price drop.  A lot of video services are really showing them they have better selection and they kind of know that.  But they are also jumping into Original Content territory to see if it can work.  Time will tell, i guess.
 
2013-05-16 02:50:11 PM  

Theaetetus: As an aside, it actually is a little surprising that the jury found non-infringement. A parameterized HTTP POST request could read on that first claim.


I am SHOCKED that you agree with the trolls. Absolutely flabbergasted.
 
2013-05-16 02:55:16 PM  
Those of you who prefer amazon over newegg due to prime shipping should check into shoprunner.com. It offers a similar deal for newegg and other online sellers. The best part is they've often had free membership promos over the last few years - currently most Amex cards will get you a free year.

Nothing against amazon, I use them often too. But newegg is great, and I wasn't even aware they were fighting (and winning) the good fight on this stuff.
 
2013-05-16 03:03:44 PM  

DeathCipris: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

www.newegg.com

Go buy a flash drive or something. :)


I'm going to be rebuilding an old laptop soon (my first time doing it solo) and I will definitely be browsing for the few parts I need at newegg.
 
2013-05-16 03:10:20 PM  

umad: Theaetetus: As an aside, it actually is a little surprising that the jury found non-infringement. A parameterized HTTP POST request could read on that first claim.

I am SHOCKED that you agree with the trolls. Absolutely flabbergasted.


I am SHOCKED that you're illiterate:

Theaetetus: The article doesn't mention what the '131 patent was invalid over, but fortunately, all of the trial documents are up on PACER. It looks like the piece of prior art used was the X Window System, as described in the Xlib Programming Manual for Version 11, Vol. 1.

Interestingly (particularly with the CLS Bank case that was just decided), patent eligibility under 35 USC 101 didn't seem to be an issue at trial. Which is surprising, 'cause I can't believe those claims would pass muster under the CLS analysis.


Oh, wait, no I'm not. I've come to expect it from you.

But, just in case anyone else is confused, let's break it down in a simple analogy.
Say I have a patent that claims "1. A method for living, comprising: breathing."  You infringe it, don't you? You're breathing, right?
Yes, of course you do. That said, it's absolutely invalid. There's prior art going back hundreds of millions of years for one.

Now, let's apply that to this situation. The claims here recite assigning an identifier to an object, and transmitting that identifier and the object. Like, say, transmitting a POST request with "?text=here%20is%20some%20text." Or "?pagenumber=2". There's a good chance that NewEgg, along with almost every marginally interactive website in the world, does that. Thing is, sending an identifier and an object has been done for decades, which is why, for example, the X Windows system included it. So the patent is so broad that you can't help but infringe, but it's also so broad that there's tons of prior art predating it and it's invalid.

Got it, umad? Because it's farking simple, much like you.
 
2013-05-16 03:13:35 PM  

Theaetetus: So the patent is so broad that you can't help but infringe, but it's also so broad that there's tons of prior art predating it and it's invalid.


So you're surprised that they found non-infringement, as opposed to up and invalidating it totally?

I can see that, especially given your explanation.
 
2013-05-16 03:15:31 PM  
I got to the 2nd sentence and saw it was about French people. That was enough.

Cute article. People from France trying to do something smart and all techy.

/hope ftw!
 
2013-05-16 03:15:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Theaetetus: So the patent is so broad that you can't help but infringe, but it's also so broad that there's tons of prior art predating it and it's invalid.

So you're surprised that they found non-infringement,

as opposed to up and invalidating it totally?

I can see that, especially given your explanation.


No, they invalidated it totally. I'm surprised that, given that, they also found non-infringement. Basically "this method is so common and well known that everyone has been doing it for decades,  and NewEgg doesn't do it" is a logically odd outcome.
 
2013-05-16 03:17:05 PM  
This is great news.

Also, newegg is great. They've been my go to for computer hardware for years.
 
2013-05-16 03:21:17 PM  

Theaetetus: No, they invalidated it totally. I'm surprised that, given that, they also found non-infringement. Basically "this method is so common and well known that everyone has been doing it for decades, and NewEgg doesn't do it" is a logically odd outcome.


That is weird. I know the law is allowed to be logically weird, but this seems like a special kind of weird.

If you cited this as precedent, couldn't opposing counsel then also cite it as an argument against because of the logically inconsistent findings? (Would the judge's head explode?) I don't know how to think up a hypothetical here, just wondering.
 
2013-05-16 03:22:16 PM  

Choestoe: Another Government Employee: Choestoe: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

CSB time: I worked at Hayes for 14 years. Toward the end, we were using both Rockwell and Lucent chipsets for the modems. In general, the Lucent ones were LESS buggy. But the Win Modem was a total POS in so very many ways. In all cases, though, we did a lot of custom firmware to work around issues where possible and to implement additional features. But I remember having to test many modems due to "upgrades" in the basic chipset.


/QA Manager was the last title I had there
//Hayes modems were pricey but damn good...until near the end when things were spiraling down the drain
///Best company I ever worked for, particularly in the early years.

Did two contracts there.
Dennis was truly an innovator and his Ex Wife is truly SPECIAL.
Anything DSL related pretty much evolved from that company.

Heh - which ex-wife? Both cost him a pile of money, but in different ways...


Melinda.

She killed the company.

Yeah, Ming did cost him some dough, though.
 
2013-05-16 03:22:42 PM  

gweilo8888: Alcatel's products are also utter shiat.


Amen brother (or sister).  At work I get to work on Cisco's, Juniper's, and ALU 7750 routers.  Of the 3 , the ALU box has the crappiest OS I have ever seen.  I admit I'm a Cisco guy, and I like the Juniper stuff too, but when I see an order to work on the ALU box I just know it's going to be a fight.
 
2013-05-16 03:23:53 PM  
They're getting my business one way or the other.

I just ordered a network card from them and it showed up 15 hours after I placed the order. I've never had online service like that.

On top of that I noticed that I ordered the wrong part once it got here. It was totally my fault but they're taking the return and waving the restocking fee even though I already opened the package.

I've ordered other stuff from them and I've never had cause to complain.

Newegg rocks.
 
2013-05-16 03:30:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Theaetetus: No, they invalidated it totally. I'm surprised that, given that, they also found non-infringement. Basically "this method is so common and well known that everyone has been doing it for decades, and NewEgg doesn't do it" is a logically odd outcome.

That is weird. I know the law is allowed to be logically weird, but this seems like a special kind of weird.

If you cited this as precedent, couldn't opposing counsel then also cite it as an argument against because of the logically inconsistent findings? (Would the judge's head explode?) I don't know how to think up a hypothetical here, just wondering.


Nope... it's non-precedential for one, and the result comes out with NewEgg winning either way, so I'm not sure why you'd even try to cite it. You could try the Samsung appeal of "the inconsistency indicates the jury didn't understand the instructions", but it wouldn't change the outcome, since the patents were found invalid.
If anything, it points to a flaw in the Texas jury verdict form... In most other jurisdictions, the jury is asked  first if the patents are valid, and  then asked "if the answer to the previous question was yes, then does the defendant infringe?"  For some odd reason, this form put them in reverse order, and didn't include the linking bit.
 
2013-05-16 03:30:52 PM  
For those Newegg fans that want to celebrate with Newegg by buying something from the site, I might suggest this NAS.  I bought it last year, RAIDed two 2TB drives, and it's f-ing sweet!

It has it's on little O/S, apps to make it a home cloud, etc.  I plugged it into my ASUS router, and simplified media access for my wife.  She watches movies on it from the Xbox and Roku and her Nexus 7.  Now she loves it.

(Newegg, you can send the check payable to "FinFangFark")

/And I love Lee Cheng's quotes...talk about a boot to the ass after the fact.
 
2013-05-16 03:41:26 PM  

Theaetetus: You could try the Samsung appeal of "the inconsistency indicates the jury didn't understand the instructions", but it wouldn't change the outcome, since the patents were found invalid.


That mostly answers it.

// not that you asked, but my favorite episode of L&O was where Jack ends up separately trying two defendants for firing the same gun in the same murder (ADA Harmon handles the other case)
// IIRC, one of the defendants is Big Pete
// speaking of weird law/precedent
 
2013-05-16 03:47:04 PM  
what the hell happened to Lucent, they used to make great stuff
 
2013-05-16 03:47:24 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Satanic_Hamster: mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.

Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.

Newegg.com once in a while sells these things for $28.

I love mine--it didn't come with the lid holder or a ring--but for $28 I wouldn't be heart-broken if I dropped it or it went up in flames. I use the thing on the patio mostly anyways.


What is it?
 
2013-05-16 03:47:53 PM  

DeathCipris: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

That LT Win modem was a POS...I replaced it with a US Robotics 56k modem. Loved that thing and it worked like a damn champ.


Smartest thing US Robotics did was ensuring basically any semi-major BBS you dialed into was using their gear. IIRC they were practically giving the things away to BBS owners.

I worked for Motorola back in the day, and got to play with some damned cool gear there. The Motorola 3265 was a hot little number, incredibly configurable and easily my favorite of all the modems I ever used. And some of the stuff from well before my time -- but still supported -- was awesome. I remember one of the industrial modems was about the size of three or four shoe boxes, and full of wire-wrap circuit boards.

/Bet I'm the only one here who remembers the E-Tech Bullet Modem -- mediocre performance but it looked like a Ferrari alongside everybody else's extruded aluminum housings.
 
2013-05-16 03:53:13 PM  
"Mark Fleming is phenomenal, a great lawyer," said Lee Cheng, Newegg's chief legal officer, in an interview with Ars. "I heard him argue. But even he can't make bad facts go away."

What a polite way to say "Hey Mark, how does my ass taste?"
 
2013-05-16 03:54:43 PM  
This just won the egg my business for the foreseeable future...

"The bad news is, we're running out of lawsuits. There are fewer trolls for us to fight."
 
2013-05-16 03:56:15 PM  

Sim Tree: TheShavingofOccam123: Satanic_Hamster: mongbiohazard: Oh yeah, and many years ago I had a problem with a CPU I bought from Newegg. When I opened the package it was chipped. It took exactly one phone call - and 0 arguing - to get them to ship me out a new one, which I received before the one I was returning even had a chance to make it back to them. I've bought lots of stuff from them since then, and referred many people to their website.

Newegg is excellent on returns / handling defective products.  Bought a few laptop last December, came with a dead pixel, they had a return slip to me that evening.  Full refund including shipping, didn't have to pay for return shipping, got the new laptop two days later.

Newegg.com once in a while sells these things for $28.

I love mine--it didn't come with the lid holder or a ring--but for $28 I wouldn't be heart-broken if I dropped it or it went up in flames. I use the thing on the patio mostly anyways.

What is it?


It's a convection oven. Bright light, big bowl, powerful fan. But it keeps the house clear of really disgusting food odors.
 
2013-05-16 04:00:14 PM  

Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.


Practical Peripherals and US Robotics
 
2013-05-16 04:05:00 PM  

Another Government Employee: Choestoe: Another Government Employee: Choestoe: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

CSB time: I worked at Hayes for 14 years. Toward the end, we were using both Rockwell and Lucent chipsets for the modems. In general, the Lucent ones were LESS buggy. But the Win Modem was a total POS in so very many ways. In all cases, though, we did a lot of custom firmware to work around issues where possible and to implement additional features. But I remember having to test many modems due to "upgrades" in the basic chipset.


/QA Manager was the last title I had there
//Hayes modems were pricey but damn good...until near the end when things were spiraling down the drain
///Best company I ever worked for, particularly in the early years.

Did two contracts there.
Dennis was truly an innovator and his Ex Wife is truly SPECIAL.
Anything DSL related pretty much evolved from that company.

Heh - which ex-wife? Both cost him a pile of money, but in different ways...

Melinda.

She killed the company.

Yeah, Ming did cost him some dough, though.


Both share  lot of blame, but there were many other poor decisions thrown in there. I often thought someone should have written a book - it could have been a best seller. But just to name a few:

1. The conversion from the Vax to a LAN system for internal email and data storage fiasco
2. The Please database
3. LANStep <shudder>
4. Totally botching the JIT transition in the warehouse.
5. Did I mention LANStep?
6. The fiasco with the merger with the company in MD whose name I have totally forgotten
7. Oh yeah...LANStep

The whole DSL and Cable modem stuff was handled poory from the business end. But yes, a LOT of DSL and Cable modem tech came out of Hayes ultimately. And got used by others.
 
2013-05-16 04:07:34 PM  

inglixthemad: Rwa2play: Red_Fox: Lucent has sucked ever since the LT Win modem.

Wow! That takes me back a bit but yeah, remember buying that thing at CompUSA and returned it the next day because it couldn't do squat.  Got myself a Hayes modem instead and used it until I got broadband.

Practical Peripherals and US Robotics


Hayes owned Practical Peripherals hte last few years of its life. Why? Wait for it....

Patent issues. The  "Escape code with Guard Time" patent. To this day i can't decide if Hayes was patent trolling before it was fashionable, or was just protecting its invention. Mainly because the invention was fairly simple. Not that it matters one whit now.
 
2013-05-16 04:17:21 PM  

dletter: Public companies have to worry about shareholders, so, everything comes down to dollars and cents... it will be cheaper in the next 10 years to just give them some money than fight it in court, so, cave.


Trolls carefully calibrate their demands so that it's cheaper to cave than litigate.

Recently the porn-piracy-troll Prenda Law got smacked down (this was on Fark), and fined by the judge an amount calculated to be just less than the cost of litigating an appeal. (He explicitly said that's where the amount came from).
 
2013-05-16 04:24:22 PM  
I've been contemplating where to buy a NUC, I think this article just made my decision.
 
2013-05-16 04:29:15 PM  
Alcatel Lucent, meanwhile, they drag out some random VP-who happens to be a decorated Navy veteran, who happens to be handsome and has a beautiful wife and kids-but the guy didn't know what patents were being asserted. What a joke.

....Otherwise know as the Republican enemy of the U.S.A.
 
2013-05-16 04:41:08 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


This, however I've done business with them for many years now. I'll sometimes go with Tiger Direct if they're considerably cheaper, but I think I'll just stick with Newegg now. Anyone who's willing to fight these idiot trolls has earned my money.
 
2013-05-16 05:09:49 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: dletter: Public companies have to worry about shareholders, so, everything comes down to dollars and cents... it will be cheaper in the next 10 years to just give them some money than fight it in court, so, cave.

Trolls carefully calibrate their demands so that it's cheaper to cave than litigate.

Recently the porn-piracy-troll Prenda Law got smacked down (this was on Fark), and fined by the judge an amount calculated to be just less than the cost of litigating an appeal. (He explicitly said that's where the amount came from).


I concur... but, my point was that a private company with ownership at the top that goes "F.U., I don't care if it costs me a lot of money, I'm going to fight you" is much different than a public company that just goes to the accounting dept. and says "What is the cheapest way to get rid of this?".   The private company will fight it even if it is not in their monetary favor, just because.
 
2013-05-16 05:17:16 PM  

BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.


This. Sometimes Amazon is a few bucks cheaper but I buy from Newegg unless the difference is pretty significant. I'm delighted that someone who is actually capable of standing up to patent trolls (ie not some small business) is doing so for once.
 
2013-05-16 06:31:08 PM  
I built a new computer from parts about a month ago.  i5, 8 gig memory, Radion HD 7950 graphics, an 120 gig SSD boot drive, 1TB HDD, a high end wireless card, water cooling, etc.  A nice gaming system.  Parts and the OS ran about $1350 total, if I remember right.  Newegg didn't carry the case I wanted, but they got all the rest of my business, in part because I've read stories like this one before.
 
2013-05-16 07:41:11 PM  

Walker: BKITU: Well, they're getting my business for the foreseeable future.

They always get my business.




Treasure Chest Computer Systems.

Before that.
farm4.static.flickr.com
That magazine used to be 3 times fatter.
 
2013-05-16 07:59:16 PM  
Go egg
 
2013-05-16 08:38:08 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Mike Chewbacca: Who the hell is NewEgg and how can I give them my money as a big thank you for doing this?

NewEgg.com.

// it's dot-com!

EddyKilowatt: Bell Labs was a national treasure. It has always fascinated me that there was such a strong civic ethic at Bell that they would plow millions (probably billions in CY dollars) into blue-sky research... a lot of which benefited them, obviously, but even more of which has proven to benefit society at large.

Google does this - they actually allow their employees to dedicate up to 25% of their working hours to blue-sky stuff like that. IIRC, it's how we ended up with Maps, Reader, Mail and more than one other "in-the-pipe" tech.

Patents are supposed to be used for furthering innovation - (again IIRC) just sitting on a patent long enough can invalidate it, or maybe it's only when the holder actively prevents anything from happening with it.

// not a lawyer


That would be a brilliant way to stop patent trolls. Put out the idea of the patent or its invalidated.
 
2013-05-16 08:39:11 PM  
wow, Computer Shopper brings back memories.  That phone book was a good 2-3 hours of me pouring over ads.
 
2013-05-16 08:47:58 PM  
Newegg has the WORST customer service. Will never give them my personal or my company's business again.
 
2013-05-16 08:54:53 PM  

twfeline: Newegg has the WORST customer service. Will never give them my personal or my company's business again.


And yet, most people seem to disagree with you.

Maybe you're just the worst customer.
 
2013-05-16 09:42:55 PM  

Theaetetus: Dr Dreidel: Theaetetus: No, they invalidated it totally. I'm surprised that, given that, they also found non-infringement. Basically "this method is so common and well known that everyone has been doing it for decades, and NewEgg doesn't do it" is a logically odd outcome.

That is weird. I know the law is allowed to be logically weird, but this seems like a special kind of weird.

If you cited this as precedent, couldn't opposing counsel then also cite it as an argument against because of the logically inconsistent findings? (Would the judge's head explode?) I don't know how to think up a hypothetical here, just wondering.

Nope... it's non-precedential for one, and the result comes out with NewEgg winning either way, so I'm not sure why you'd even try to cite it. You could try the Samsung appeal of "the inconsistency indicates the jury didn't understand the instructions", but it wouldn't change the outcome, since the patents were found invalid.
If anything, it points to a flaw in the Texas jury verdict form... In most other jurisdictions, the jury is asked  first if the patents are valid, and  then asked "if the answer to the previous question was yes, then does the defendant infringe?"  For some odd reason, this form put them in reverse order, and didn't include the linking bit.


I don't see that this is logically impossible. If the patent is invalid because someone did it before, and you are not currently doing it. Both things can be true simultaneously: Someone else did it in the past, just not you.
 
2013-05-16 09:59:30 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: That magazine used to be 3 times fatter.


The first computer I ever bought came out of an ad in Computer Shopper.

16 MHz 386sx. It may have had a whole 1GB of memory. It had a SoundBlaster and (I think) a Tseng Labs video card. And it came with a 14-inch Sony Trinitron CRT monitor.

/Ah, memories.
 
2013-05-16 10:14:57 PM  
I needed a new 3TB hard drive, and I'd normally go straight to Amazon to get it, but I bought from NewEgg instead.  Kudos!!
 
2013-05-16 10:16:07 PM  

twfeline: Newegg has the WORST customer service. Will never give them my personal or my company's business again.


I've bought a ton of stuff from them over maybe 5 years at work, 100% reliable and fast.. I've returned stuff, called their billing, called their shipping, and gotten a few favors like when I've been over my 30 days. I'll always check Newegg first, and I'll pay a couple bucks more with them if I have to versus a site I've never used before. I don't need to deal with their customer service much, but I can't think of a single time I've felt they screwed me, even on accident.
 
2013-05-16 10:20:02 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Maybe you're just the worst customer.


or a troll.. geez
 
2013-05-16 10:21:03 PM  

Sczi: twfeline: Newegg has the WORST customer service. Will never give them my personal or my company's business again.

I've bought a ton of stuff from them over maybe 5 years at work, 100% reliable and fast.. I've returned stuff, called their billing, called their shipping, and gotten a few favors like when I've been over my 30 days. I'll always check Newegg first, and I'll pay a couple bucks more with them if I have to versus a site I've never used before. I don't need to deal with their customer service much, but I can't think of a single time I've felt they screwed me, even on accident.


Eh.  You know how some people are.  THEY didn't get their problem resolved once to their satisfaction, that means that company has the WORST customer service of ALL TIME OF ANY COMPANY.

Doesn't matter if they were being unreasonable or were wrong to start with.  Nope.  The customer is always right and it's the responsibility of the company to make them happy no matter what!
 
2013-05-16 10:23:09 PM  

Sczi: Satanic_Hamster: Maybe you're just the worst customer.

or a troll.. geez


Trolls ARE the worst customers.
 
2013-05-16 10:54:35 PM  
NewEgg is a California company so as a CA resident I have to pay sales tax whenever I buy something from them.

I still buy just about everything from them when I'm building a PC.  Even with the contribution to Governor Moonbeam (I'm not being deprecating, I voted for the guy) their prices are still usually better than everyone else, and even when not their customer service makes it worth the extra few bucks.
 
2013-05-16 11:14:46 PM  

The Flexecutioner: wow, Computer Shopper brings back memories.  That phone book was a good 2-3 hours of me pouring over ads.


And it made an amazing doorstop (well, two or three) when you were done with it.
 
2013-05-16 11:51:12 PM  

Sim Tree: Theaetetus: Dr Dreidel: Theaetetus: No, they invalidated it totally. I'm surprised that, given that, they also found non-infringement. Basically "this method is so common and well known that everyone has been doing it for decades, and NewEgg doesn't do it" is a logically odd outcome.

That is weird. I know the law is allowed to be logically weird, but this seems like a special kind of weird.

If you cited this as precedent, couldn't opposing counsel then also cite it as an argument against because of the logically inconsistent findings? (Would the judge's head explode?) I don't know how to think up a hypothetical here, just wondering.

Nope... it's non-precedential for one, and the result comes out with NewEgg winning either way, so I'm not sure why you'd even try to cite it. You could try the Samsung appeal of "the inconsistency indicates the jury didn't understand the instructions", but it wouldn't change the outcome, since the patents were found invalid.
If anything, it points to a flaw in the Texas jury verdict form... In most other jurisdictions, the jury is asked  first if the patents are valid, and  then asked "if the answer to the previous question was yes, then does the defendant infringe?"  For some odd reason, this form put them in reverse order, and didn't include the linking bit.

I don't see that this is logically impossible. If the patent is invalid because someone did it before, and you are not currently doing it. Both things can be true simultaneously: Someone else did it in the past, just not you.


No, it's not impossible... just unlikely, specifically in this case because of how broad the patent claim is. Like, under one reading, Fark would infringe it, as would almost every other website (Zombo.com excepted). Like I said, if I had a patent claiming "sending a signal from one computer to another," it would be invalid over tons of prior art. You could also claim that you didn't do it, and that's not impossible if you're Ted Kaczynski... but if you're not living in a shack in the woods, you probably do do it.
 
2013-05-17 02:03:50 AM  

Cybernetic: StoPPeRmobile: That magazine used to be 3 times fatter.

The first computer I ever bought came out of an ad in Computer Shopper.

16 MHz 386sx. It may have had a whole 1GB of memory. It had a SoundBlaster and (I think) a Tseng Labs video card. And it came with a 14-inch Sony Trinitron CRT monitor.

/Ah, memories.


I suspect you mean 1 MB.  A 386SX had only 24 address lines and could address only 16 MB of memory.
 
2013-05-17 04:46:17 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Cybernetic: StoPPeRmobile: That magazine used to be 3 times fatter.

The first computer I ever bought came out of an ad in Computer Shopper.

16 MHz 386sx. It may have had a whole 1GB of memory. It had a SoundBlaster and (I think) a Tseng Labs video card. And it came with a 14-inch Sony Trinitron CRT monitor.

/Ah, memories.

I suspect you mean 1 MB.  A 386SX had only 24 address lines and could address only 16 MB of memory.


MB. I had a SX, alias crippled-bus 386
 
2013-05-17 11:44:29 PM  

Random Discord: Ditto. And I love the fact that for 99% of the items I order, I receive them the following day!


newegg's shipping is awesome. i've ordered late in the day (like dinner time late) and had it delivered to work the next day. now that's from memphis to new orleans and then delivered. which in just over 12 hours is pretty impressive.

all my current computers were built from parts from newegg. and most of the older ones too :)
 
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