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(Slate)   "Existing law permits the police to shoot criminals who pose an imminent threat to others; if police can gun down hostage takers and rampaging shooters, why can't they drone them down too?"   (slate.com) divider line 126
    More: Obvious, imminent threat, international humanitarian law, hostage takers, territories of the United States, legal principles, UNITED STATES AND CHINA, international laws, arms control agreements  
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3720 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-16 09:24:09 AM  
I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess
 
2013-05-16 09:33:09 AM  
You want to deploy Ben Stein to conduct a monologue against criminals?
 
2013-05-16 10:06:30 AM  
Two Words:  Collateral Damage.

They are already dangerous enough with their sidearms and rifles (reference the L.A. hunt for Dorner where they shot up those two ladies and another guy a block away, none of them were even driving the same make, model, or color of truck).  You want to give them drones and trust them from altitude?  Plus, even if they do everything right, if the missile goes off target in a dense urban area, I wouldn't want to be around.
 
2013-05-16 10:07:13 AM  

xenophon10k: You want to deploy Ben Stein to conduct a monologue against criminals?


I want to record an album of Ben Stein interviewing Kissinger and sell it as the cure for insomnia
 
2013-05-16 10:11:07 AM  
Well, as they said in Ghostbusters and in the LAPD, "Let's split up."  "Good idea.  That way we can do more damage."
 
2013-05-16 10:14:27 AM  

I_C_Weener: Well, as they said in Ghostbusters and in the LAPD, "Let's split up."  "Good idea.  That way we can do more damage."



Ha!
 
2013-05-16 10:22:54 AM  

zedster: I want to record an album of Ben Stein interviewing Kissinger and sell it as the cure for insomnia


Or use next time we have a hostage situation. Never understood trying to keep them awake, tired people make mistakes and you don't want someone with explosives and fire arms to make mistakes.
 
2013-05-16 10:34:11 AM  
xirdalium.net
Not all drones fly.

Sleep tight.
 
2013-05-16 10:40:35 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: zedster: I want to record an album of Ben Stein interviewing Kissinger and sell it as the cure for insomnia

Or use next time we have a hostage situation. Never understood trying to keep them awake, tired people make mistakes and you don't want someone with explosives and fire arms to make mistakes.


I think that would be a clear 4th amendment violation as well as the Geneva Convention and a few interstellar peace treaties
 
2013-05-16 10:48:19 AM  
Are we going to continue to drone on and on about this?
 
2013-05-16 10:49:44 AM  
Good idea.  Let's completely remove the element of a trained professional capable of evaluating the situation up close and adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances, and increase the destructive capability and chance for collateral damage.

It just makes soooooo much sense.
 
2013-05-16 10:51:09 AM  
Hostage taking?

That's a dronin'!
 
2013-05-16 10:52:05 AM  
Slate(tm) with Eric Posner(r) brought to you by these fine sponsors:
bestuff.com
 
2013-05-16 10:52:38 AM  
I AM a bit shocked that news agencies aren't using them to collect video.  You can keep 'em up in the air for beans compared to what it costs to put News Chopper 11 up in the air.
 
2013-05-16 10:53:08 AM  
I wonder what the penalty would be for shooting down a police drone.
 
2013-05-16 10:53:52 AM  

pantojar: Are we going to continue to drone on and on about this?


At least get the joke right, it's supposed to go some thing like:

"Gosh, seems like all you people talk about are drones these days. You just go on and on and on and on about them. It's like the only thing you talk about and it just so boring, this constant buzz about the things. People just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on  and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about drones."
 
2013-05-16 10:53:57 AM  
Rand Paul explained this for like 13 hours. The jist of his argument. He said they can blow you up for robbing a liquor store. Case closed.
 
2013-05-16 10:54:32 AM  
You know maybe we need to just stop with all these drones. Maybe we need to work on bio-engineering an organism that has the thinking capacity of a human and put Cybernetics to be a soldier. This Life Form could then be networked into Nodes and commanded remotely.

If only we had some snappy name for them.
 
2013-05-16 10:54:44 AM  

Jacob_Roberson: Slate(tm) with Eric Posner(r) brought to you by these fine sponsors:
[bestuff.com image 210x210]


You have 20 seconds to comply.

assets2.ignimgs.com
 
2013-05-16 10:55:40 AM  

El Morro: Good idea.  Let's completely remove the element of a trained professional capable of evaluating the situation up close and adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances, and increase the destructive capability and chance for collateral damage.

It just makes soooooo much sense.


Relax there, chief.  We haven't activated Skynet yet.  There's a trained professional in the loop.
 
2013-05-16 11:02:43 AM  

Ring of Fire: Rand Paul explained this for like 13 hours. The jist of his argument. He said they can blow you up for robbing a liquor store. Case closed.


Almost half correct.
 
2013-05-16 11:04:56 AM  

El Morro: Good idea.  Let's completely remove the element of a trained professional capable of evaluating the situation up close and adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances, and increase the destructive capability and chance for collateral damage.

It just makes soooooo much sense.


Are you kidding, trained professionals on the ground to evaluate? It was all those cops in Watertown who shot up the boat even though that Marathon suspect not only didn't shoot at the cops but didn't even have a gun.
 
2013-05-16 11:05:11 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess


I insist you watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU
 
2013-05-16 11:05:23 AM  
Because a machine can't make decisions, and can't see the whole scene as well as a trained person.

Because a joystick jockey is not someone I want enforcing laws. Will the speaker insult their mother then the drone come over and tebag them?
 
2013-05-16 11:05:45 AM  

zedster: I think that would be a clear 4th amendment violation as well as the Geneva Convention and a few interstellar peace treaties


They ain't prisoners
 
2013-05-16 11:08:20 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: zedster: I want to record an album of Ben Stein interviewing Kissinger and sell it as the cure for insomnia

Or use next time we have a hostage situation. Never understood trying to keep them awake, tired people make mistakes and you don't want someone with explosives and fire arms to make mistakes.


You have a good point.

Wouldn't be interesting if some state or city passed a law giving a "time out" to any tense hostage situation? If the bad guys agree to not mess/get all rapey with the hostages, everyone just stands down for 12 hours and gets some shuteye. And an unarmed caterer serves a hot meal for everyone.

Gives the bad guys time to think things through and calm down.... gives them a chance to get to talking with the hostages and start seeing them as people instead of objects.

I know, I know, this sounds incredibly stupid and naive. It's just a rough concept and needs a lot of work. One problem is that it would require an incredible amount of an obsolete concept known as "personal honor" on the part of everyone.
 
2013-05-16 11:08:48 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess


As somebody who builds robots for a living.... i can tell you with absolute certainty that a robot can identify a human from far away, and accurately calculate velocity to shoot them, and do it faster than your brain can even register that there is a threat.  We just dont at the moment because of the stigma.
 
2013-05-16 11:09:57 AM  

skinink: Are you kidding, trained professionals on the ground to evaluate? It was all those cops in Watertown who shot up the boat even though that Marathon suspect not only didn't shoot at the cops but didn't even have a gun.


and each other...  There were no less than 3 friendly fire incidents that night.
 
2013-05-16 11:09:59 AM  
Don't worry, they're under human control.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-16 11:11:19 AM  
Ah Fark threads, where cops can are trained professionals, jackbooted thugs, high school dropouts, pillars of our community, and the only people we can trust with firearms all in one day.
 
2013-05-16 11:11:47 AM  

spentshells: IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess

I insist you watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU


That video takes a few liberties with reality.
 
2013-05-16 11:14:12 AM  

PreMortem: Ring of Fire: Rand Paul explained this for like 13 hours. The jist of his argument. He said they can blow you up for robbing a liquor store. Case closed.

Almost half correct.


I'm aware
Rand Paul spoke for 13 hours about drones.
Rand Paul believes you can be blown up with a drone for robbing a liquor store.
These are facts however together they are not.
 
2013-05-16 11:19:24 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess


AFAIK they've had similar technology in tanks for about a gazillion years. Not a tank guy but those guys can hit vehicle sized targets at a couple of miles out - the targeting systems are insanely good...
 
2013-05-16 11:24:31 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: Because a machine can't make decisions, and can't see the whole scene as well as a trained person.

Because a joystick jockey is not someone I want enforcing laws. Will the speaker insult their mother then the drone come over and tebag them?


Dollars to donuts, a drone cop would be smarter at least.
 
2013-05-16 11:24:52 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Wouldn't be interesting if some state or city passed a law giving a "time out" to any tense hostage situation? If the bad guys agree to not mess/get all rapey with the hostages, everyone just stands down for 12 hours and gets some shuteye. And an unarmed caterer serves a hot meal for everyone.

Gives the bad guys time to think things through and calm down.... gives them a chance to get to talking with the hostages and start seeing them as people instead of objects.

I know, I know, this sounds incredibly stupid and naive. It's just a rough concept and needs a lot of work. One problem is that it would require an incredible amount of an obsolete concept known as "personal honor" on the part of everyone.


I'm not sure about the idea of time out, I beat my children.
 
2013-05-16 11:26:37 AM  

ZeroPly: IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess

AFAIK they've had similar technology in tanks for about a gazillion years. Not a tank guy but those guys can hit vehicle sized targets at a couple of miles out - the targeting systems are insanely good...




These are $12.

www.fiberopticproducts.com

/Sleep tight.
 
2013-05-16 11:30:07 AM  

spentshells: I insist you watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU


That's some scary ass shiat

Alonjar: As somebody who builds robots for a living.... i can tell you with absolute certainty that a robot can identify a human from far away, and accurately calculate velocity to shoot them, and do it faster than your brain can even register that there is a threat. We just dont at the moment because of the stigma.


Give it time
 
2013-05-16 11:30:46 AM  
www.buzzpatrol.com
 
2013-05-16 11:35:47 AM  
Because you're a stupid asshole who doesn't understand how UAVs work, so you're afraid of them?

We're never going to fire a missile at any criminal in the US, ever.  Not from any platform.
 
2013-05-16 11:36:27 AM  
Years ago, a husband/wife bank robbing `team' led the cops out of town, down through the bluffs, on gravel roads, emerging in a cloud of dust out on the river bottoms.  No shortage of waist high corn, HP cruisers and nowhere to hide.

That Bonnie & Clyde's getaway car was a `78 Datsun B-210 hatchback didn't discourage them a bit firing up at the helicopter, that had just appeared, with an old SKS.  Cops holed the roof of car and the occupants, from copter, with a .223 Ranch Rifle and that was that.

/can imagine elected officials will be clamoring for these `tax saving' `tools' (cops? A pilot+shooter+8 officers in 4 cruisers- replaced by automation? what's not to campaign on???)
//drones over `empty' stretches of I40/80 `snapshot' the speeders (everyone) and pull `em over at every `County Line'
 
2013-05-16 11:36:31 AM  

Alonjar: IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess

As somebody who builds robots for a living.... i can tell you with absolute certainty that a robot can identify a human from far away, and accurately calculate velocity to shoot them, and do it faster than your brain can even register that there is a threat.  We just dont at the moment because of the stigma.


Also, when they grab you in their metal claws, you can't break free, because they're made of metal, and robots are strong.
 
2013-05-16 11:39:52 AM  

PanicMan: Because you're a stupid asshole who doesn't understand how UAVs work, so you're afraid of them?

We're never going to fire a missile at any criminal in the US, ever.  Not from any platform.


What if we hardwire in some directives, like "serve the public trust," "protect the innocent," "uphold the law," and "classified?"
 
2013-05-16 11:42:15 AM  
shoots the hostage
www.90smovies.net
hot
 
2013-05-16 11:42:34 AM  

PanicMan: Because you're a stupid asshole who doesn't understand how UAVs work, so you're afraid of them?

We're never going to fire a missile at any criminal in the US, ever.  Not from any platform.



The people will beg for it.
 
2013-05-16 11:45:43 AM  

spentshells: IdBeCrazyIf: I think we are a long ways away from that honestly since the current weapon technology for drones involves using an 18lb thermobaric warhead with a kill radius of 100 to 200 yards terrain dependent.

....although, there is a company which just released a new smart rifle that can assist in hitting a target down range at 500 yards. It's pretty amazing, you pull the trigger to laser sight the target and then adjust as necessary for wind, etc.. then this is the cool part, you pull the trigger but the gun doesn't actually fire until it's in that sweet spot.

Soooo expect those to be attached to a drone soon I guess

I insist you watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU


That requires targets that are deaf, blind, paralyzed, and with gasoline for blood. That's entirely unrealistic.  Not to mention unsafe for the operator and neither effective or suitable for any real world scenario.
 
2013-05-16 11:49:44 AM  

PanicMan: Because you're a stupid asshole who doesn't understand how UAVs work, so you're afraid of them?

We're never going to fire a missile at any criminal in the US, ever.  Not from any platform.


I'd not recommend the term 'never' in this case. Has a bad tendency to not be quite so absolute as one might think.
 
2013-05-16 11:50:10 AM  

El Morro: Good idea.  Let's completely remove the element of a trained professional capable of evaluating the situation up close and adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances, and increase the destructive capability and chance for collateral damage.

It just makes soooooo much sense.


Or to play Devil's Advocate you could say - lets take the decision to shoot someone outs of the hands of someone that could be dead if they choose not to fire and are wrong, whereas the drone operator can let someone go without shooting if there is any question they are not a current threat and not risk dying themselves - only members of the public can end up dead that would be dead anyway if there was no drone around to stop the attacker anyway.
 
2013-05-16 11:56:35 AM  
Phew. Good thing Holder changed the word immenent to mean any time in the next few years.
 
2013-05-16 12:03:33 PM  
TFA: "if police can gun down hostage takers and rampaging shooters, why can't they drone them down too?"

1. Because it's pretty hard to hack a cop but hacked drones are already a thing.
2. Because drones are operated by people who aren't immediately present, following orders that go up a chain of command and back down. Miscommunication is a thing. Drones flawlessly targeting something other than what the spotter requested be targeted, is already a thing.
3. Drones don't really miss. A bunch of panicked LAPD officers can light up a couple of wrong pickup trucks and somehow, by the grace of the FSM, not manage to actually *kill* anyone. But add a drone to those situations and you'd have had three corpses an overwhelming number of times.
4. Drones don't really miss, continued. When missing isn't a concern, cops lose the incentive to actually talk people down and seek non-violent resolutions. They'll reach for the remote trigger in situations they wouldn't risk their own aim. So more people are going to be shot and killed by police officers, period. And cops already don't have a great track record of appropriately choosing when to dispense deadly force.
5. Because every time we extend edge-case capability to cops, they normalize the use of edge case capability.
6. drones are particularly worse than most of the swat-ification of US police departments, because they'll be inexpensive. So rather than expensive set-pieces rolled out in appropriate times, they'll simply be *everywhere, all the time*. Drones that launch themselves from police vehicles at every traffic stop, giving every cop an eye-in-the-sky and an armed and remotely operated partner, isn't a stretch of the imagination. They'll be far cheaper than the car itself, let alone a flesh-and-blood partner. There's no reason it *wouldn't* happen, if we allow the capability.
 
2013-05-16 12:05:42 PM  
I don't understand how they can keep all these drones from crashing into each other because there are so many flying around up there. The sky is thick with drones. They are blocking the sun there are so many drones.

/Based on media hype
//I have yet to see one
 
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