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(Opposing Views)   Gym members in Miami Beach learn the hard way that armed bounty hunters have more rights than police under Florida law   (opposingviews.com) divider line 89
    More: Scary, Florida law, gyms, Miami Beach Police Department  
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14456 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2013 at 7:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-16 07:08:12 AM  
Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million immigrants.
 
2013-05-16 07:09:24 AM  
images.starpulse.com
Seems legit.
 
2013-05-16 07:11:32 AM  

Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million immigrants.


You know who else didn't need warrants?
 
2013-05-16 07:12:14 AM  
I often wonder how laws like this even happen and then I remember it's Florida.
 
2013-05-16 07:12:51 AM  
Did anyone see that Dog has a new show on CMT or whatever you call that Country Music Channel thing?

WTF?
 
2013-05-16 07:13:07 AM  
Corporations are people, friends.
 
2013-05-16 07:13:18 AM  
Seems Like you could get them on trespassing charges. I'm assuming the gym is a membership only establishment, and if they're not members there violating the rules and not leaving when asked makes it trespassing. charge them.

Did they catch the guy?
 
2013-05-16 07:13:51 AM  
Well,  Kibbler...that escalated quickly.  And for what reason?

But this story's kind of weird.  My understanding is that the  bonded's private property can be entered by the bounty hunters, but not a third party.  Hell, anyone could go anywhere as long as they're "bounty hunters", if that were the case.  "Looking for a fugitive, ma'am.  Don't bother putting your clothes back on.  I'll just wait riiiiiight here for him to get back, because I've heard he sleeps here sometimes."
 
2013-05-16 07:14:59 AM  
Where is George Zimmerman when you need him?
 
2013-05-16 07:18:49 AM  

labman: Seems Like you could get them on trespassing charges. I'm assuming the gym is a membership only establishment, and if they're not members there violating the rules and not leaving when asked makes it trespassing. charge them.

Did they catch the guy?


Article says no.
 
2013-05-16 07:19:54 AM  
...but you are require to have a Florida tag.
 
2013-05-16 07:20:16 AM  
thing is, if a bounty hunter gets shot, noone really cares....
 
2013-05-16 07:21:17 AM  

largedon: I often wonder how laws like this even happen and then I remember it's Florida.


Err, bounty hunter "laws" like this are not restricted to Florida...

/yes, I saw the Law and Order episode
 
2013-05-16 07:21:35 AM  
The government doesn't have rights.

/pedant
 
2013-05-16 07:23:18 AM  
I'm surprised that there wasn't a shootout in the locker room. I would think at least one gym member would feel threatened enough to draw and fire.
 
2013-05-16 07:23:54 AM  
You know what REALLY would have been AWESOME?
If the gym members stood their ground, whipped out guns and shot them all in the head.

Imagine the HUMOR of a bunch of dead bounty hunters (with a couple dead gym rats).
"But we are bounty hunters!! We are special!!!"
 
2013-05-16 07:24:42 AM  

PunGent: largedon: I often wonder how laws like this even happen and then I remember it's Florida.

Err, bounty hunter "laws" like this are not restricted to Florida...

/yes, I saw the Law and Order episode


Why the fark do we still have bounty hunters?
Other than the government is cheap and lazy?
 
2013-05-16 07:26:23 AM  

Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million  illegal immigrants.
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com


a key word was missing.
 
2013-05-16 07:26:56 AM  
Am I in before Bobba Fett?
 
2013-05-16 07:27:40 AM  
Bounty hunters are like fratboys, harmless and cowardly by themselves but trouble when it's three or more.
 
2013-05-16 07:29:04 AM  

dstanley: I'm surprised that there wasn't a shootout in the locker room. I would think at least one gym member would feel threatened enough to draw and fire.


What are you talking about? These were armed and threatening men in body armor, not a real threat like an unarmed boy walking along the road.
 
2013-05-16 07:41:52 AM  

Hoarseman: dstanley: I'm surprised that there wasn't a shootout in the locker room. I would think at least one gym member would feel threatened enough to draw and fire.

What are you talking about? These were armed and threatening men in body armor, not a real threat like an unarmed boy walking along the road.


Sarcasm noted... But he was wearing a hoodie and eating skittles. A hoodie!!
 
2013-05-16 07:43:38 AM  

namatad: PunGent: largedon: I often wonder how laws like this even happen and then I remember it's Florida.

Err, bounty hunter "laws" like this are not restricted to Florida...

/yes, I saw the Law and Order episode

Why the fark do we still have bounty hunters?
Other than the government is cheap and lazy?


They are employees of the bail bondsman. If someone "skips" on their bail, they will generally have a warrant issued for their arrest and can be picked up by law enforcement. The bail bondsman wants to grab the fugitive so that the bail surety is not forfeited and seized. For them it is about money. The rules vary from state to state.
 
2013-05-16 07:44:13 AM  
Yea it would have been nice if they got shot and the police just said "meh, that will happen"
 
2013-05-16 07:45:39 AM  
You people do not live in a first world country....
 
2013-05-16 07:46:44 AM  

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million  illegal immigrants.
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 240x164]

a key word was missing.


People aren't illegal.
 
2013-05-16 07:50:12 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Yea it would have been nice if they got shot and the police just said "meh, that will happen"


It would certainly help to get your cardio going at the gym.
 
2013-05-16 07:52:36 AM  

dr_blasto: It would certainly help to get your cardio going at the gym.


It's a new workout on the Insanity program!
 
2013-05-16 07:55:53 AM  
However, the David Barton Gym did release a statement condemning the bail bondsmen: "They simply ignored our normal security measures, including the building security guard on duty. We feel that they put our members and staff at risk needlessly.

Then have them arrested for trespassing.
 
2013-05-16 07:56:44 AM  
I'm pretty sure that both the bounty hunters and the cop are wrong. The bail agreement gives the bail bondsman or his agent the right to enter the private residence of the person who has been bailed out without a warrant. It also gives them the right to take that person into custody if they jump bail. Otherwise, bounty hunters are subject to every other law a private citizen is. They certainly have no special privileges with regard to third parties.
 
2013-05-16 07:57:21 AM  

thetubameister: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million  illegal immigrants.
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 240x164]

a key word was missing.

People aren't illegal.


But their immigration status can be.

Nobody says they are illegal *PEOPLE*.  They say they are illegal *IMMIGRANTS*.

That's a major difference.
 
2013-05-16 07:58:12 AM  
what kind of farking gym was that? is that was passes in Florida? look a lot more like a sex club.
 
2013-05-16 07:59:53 AM  

Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million immigrants.


I was thinking bounty hunters and florida castle doctrine coupled with their extreme "self defense" laws.


stevarooni: But this story's kind of weird. My understanding is that the bonded's private property can be entered by the bounty hunters, but not a third party. Hell, anyone could go anywhere as long as they're "bounty hunters", if that were the case. "Looking for a fugitive, ma'am. Don't bother putting your clothes back on. I'll just wait riiiiiight here for him to get back, because I've heard he sleeps here sometimes


Yeah this doesn't sound right to me, but it is florida.
 
2013-05-16 08:01:43 AM  
Someone should have called the police and said that a bunch of armed terrorists have taken over the building. Then sat back and watched the ensuring hilarity.
 
2013-05-16 08:03:07 AM  
uh oh
graphics8.nytimes.com
Worst exploitative show ever.
 
2013-05-16 08:04:21 AM  

bigwf2007: I'm pretty sure that both the bounty hunters and the cop are wrong. The bail agreement gives the bail bondsman or his agent the right to enter the private residence of the person who has been bailed out without a warrant. It also gives them the right to take that person into custody if they jump bail. Otherwise, bounty hunters are subject to every other law a private citizen is. They certainly have no special privileges with regard to third parties.


This.  I checked Florida's statutes and nothing in them authorizes this sort of thing.  Hunters also need a bench warrant signed by a judge before they can arrest a fugitive.  They can't just decide the guy might skip bail and knock down his door.

These cowboys are in a heap of trouble if the gym or any affected member cares to go after them.  So is the bondsman who hired them.
 
2013-05-16 08:11:46 AM  

ongbok: uh oh
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x384]
Worst exploitative show ever.


Those are men, baby.
 
2013-05-16 08:17:21 AM  

PunGent: largedon: I often wonder how laws like this even happen and then I remember it's Florida.

Err, bounty hunter "laws" like this are not restricted to Florida...

/yes, I saw the Law and Order episode


Yeah, it's a state-by-state thing.

Bounty Hunters can't do that in Kentucky, for example.

In case anybody didn't know how bounty hunting works in the US, it's based on a 19th century Supreme Court ruling (Taylor v. Taintor, 83 U.S. 366 (1872)) relating to bail bonds and custody.

Basically when somebody is arrested for a crime, they are given the opportunity to pay bail and be released until their trial.  If they can't pay, they can have a bail bondsman put up the money for them, by paying the bondsman directly.  If they show up on time to trial, they get their bond back, if they flee, the bondsman is out the money.

Legally, a person released under this deal is technically in the custody of the bondsman from the moment of their release.  The Supreme Court gave very broad powers to this arrangement for the custody to be enforced.  Bounty hunters (or "bail enforcement agents" or "fugitive retrieval agents" as they like to be called) are agents hired by the bondsmen to recover fugitives that have fled and have made the bondsman liable for their large bail bond.

In a state where bail bonds are not allowed, like Kentucky, this deal cannot exist and that custody is not recognized under the law (IANAL, but that's what I've always been told and have never seen bounty hunters working in this state legally).  They are a fugitive with a warrant for their failure to appear (plus their initial charge), but bounty hunters don't get blank checks to do crap like this.
 
2013-05-16 08:18:36 AM  

vudukungfu: ongbok: uh oh
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x384]
Worst exploitative show ever.

Those are men, baby.


Yeah.  A big ol' banana hammock full of THIS.
 
2013-05-16 08:22:04 AM  
"Bounty Hunters, we don't need their scum."

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-16 08:24:22 AM  
"As always, we are indebted to our wonderful staff who maintained calm and did what they could without incurring further incident to themselves or our members.

Remember you said that when the eagle flies chum.
 
2013-05-16 08:25:34 AM  

stevarooni: Well,  Kibbler...that escalated quickly.  And for what reason?

But this story's kind of weird.  My understanding is that the  bonded's private property can be entered by the bounty hunters, but not a third party.  Hell, anyone could go anywhere as long as they're "bounty hunters", if that were the case.  "Looking for a fugitive, ma'am.  Don't bother putting your clothes back on.  I'll just wait riiiiiight here for him to get back, because I've heard he sleeps here sometimes."


No, they are misunderstanding the difference between a police officer being restricted, and a bounty hunter being a private citizen.  A bounty hunter still can't FORCE you to let them anywhere, any more than any other private citizen.  A police officer has restrictions about when they need a warrant, but a bounty hunter can just ask for permission, or as noted above, be granted permission to search the among place the bonded person agreed to allow them access to with their bail bond agreement.
 
2013-05-16 08:29:46 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: bigwf2007: I'm pretty sure that both the bounty hunters and the cop are wrong. The bail agreement gives the bail bondsman or his agent the right to enter the private residence of the person who has been bailed out without a warrant. It also gives them the right to take that person into custody if they jump bail. Otherwise, bounty hunters are subject to every other law a private citizen is. They certainly have no special privileges with regard to third parties.

This.  I checked Florida's statutes and nothing in them authorizes this sort of thing.  Hunters also need a bench warrant signed by a judge before they can arrest a fugitive.  They can't just decide the guy might skip bail and knock down his door.

These cowboys are in a heap of trouble if the gym or any affected member cares to go after them.  So is the bondsman who hired them.


Everything in the article including the interviewed police officer disagrees with that assessment. They specifically mentioned the right to enter third party establishments without a warrant to arrest fugitives, did they just make that up? No one said they "just decided" he might skip bail, either. The pissed off gym member was also told by police that no crime was committed. Apparently the entire police force of Miami Beach is somehow misinformed about this issue, according to your cursory internet search.
 
2013-05-16 08:30:39 AM  

phrawgh: [images.starpulse.com image 450x312]
Seems legit.


You got get right with Jesus, brah.

/Hit 'em babe

//WTF, seriously?  I'd be heeling a turd down the shower drain after that incidient
 
2013-05-16 08:45:18 AM  
TV is actually actively destroying our society at this point.
 
2013-05-16 08:55:59 AM  

dittybopper: thetubameister: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million  illegal immigrants.
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 240x164]

a key word was missing.

People aren't illegal.

But their immigration status can be.

Nobody says they are illegal *PEOPLE*.  They say they are illegal *IMMIGRANTS*.

That's a major difference.


I see that you are another of those bigots who behaves as though people who are in htis country illegally are criminals.
 
2013-05-16 08:57:59 AM  
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This means that any law that allows bounty hunters or anyone else to violate this right should be ruled unconstitutional. Am I wrong? Where the hell is the ACLU on this?
 
2013-05-16 09:07:24 AM  
They simply ignored our normal security measures, including the building security guard on duty.

t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-16 09:07:35 AM  

Boddhisatva: Where the hell is the ACLU on this?


They had to be at the gym in 26 minutes.
 
2013-05-16 09:31:57 AM  

Dimensio: dittybopper: thetubameister: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Kibbler: Now imagine the intersection of this (bounty hunters don't need warrants), and the right wing dream of deporting 11 million  illegal immigrants.
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 240x164]

a key word was missing.

People aren't illegal.

But their immigration status can be.

Nobody says they are illegal *PEOPLE*.  They say they are illegal *IMMIGRANTS*.

That's a major difference.

I see that you are another of those bigots who behaves as though people who are in htis country illegally are criminals.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_8_of_the_United_States_Code

If an act you commit can result in fines, imprisonment, or both, then I'm going to lean toward considering that act "criminal", although I never got my GED in law or anything, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to look like an idiot in this argument.
 
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