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(Rolling Stone)   The oil markets are rigged and Europe is actually doing something about it   (rollingstone.com) divider line 120
    More: Hero, European Commission, Europe, raid, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, oil companies, Libor, financial markets, Office of Fair Trading  
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20164 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 1:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 04:32:09 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: The parties involved should be disciplined, and the process itself should be reformed, but the actual net gain/loss to society was pretty immaterial.



Just like bank robbery. The loss is covered by insurance, and the coverers of the policies will individually be out only a couple of cents, so who cares?
 
2013-05-15 04:33:20 PM
Sorry, not coverers... subscribers.
 
2013-05-15 04:40:05 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: However, given that this was written in Rolling Stone we can safely assume that it is complete nonsense.


They were quoting The Guardian

You

shiat

sorcerer.
 
2013-05-15 05:07:54 PM

attila the hun's space age techno-babble: PunGent: LessO2: Only wish electric cars had more range and would be more affordable.   Would love to tell Big Oil to suck it.

Big Coal isn't exactly unhappy about the prospect either :)

Timothy Mitchell argues the way coal is produced and transported led to the creation of truly democratic states, while the way oil is produced and transported has enabled new forms of authoritarianism - so go big coal I guess  :) http://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Democracy-Political-Power-Age/dp/1781681 1 63/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368203156&sr=1-1&keywords=carbon+de mocracy


Huh...never heard that argument before.

Good book?
 
2013-05-15 05:09:01 PM

Hobodeluxe: God-is-a-Taco: Why yes, it's national treasure Matt Taibbi.
I'll never understand the Rolling Stone thing.

the "thing" is the major news outlets are all owned by Wall st and Big Business. they don't bother investigating or reporting on such things until they're full blown public spectacle and then they get a small blurb while we move on to what Honey Boo Boo's mom is wearing at her wedding.

EVERYTHING IS RIGGED includes public information


If everything is rigged, why is the AP acting so butthurt over what they should expect by now?

/maybe it's all part of the show
 
2013-05-15 05:13:00 PM

Shazam999: Go move there then. Europe is hardly a panacea of anything at all.


Wow, it's almost like various countries do some things better than others, and some things worse than others.  In fact, I bet some countries in Europe do things differently from other countries in Europe. . . nah.  That would make life too complicated for you to understand, so it must not be true.
 
2013-05-15 05:38:42 PM

rogue49: ...because there "may" be some reason why oil is above $90/barrel when it was under $50 for years.

despite the glut of resources and more gas efficiency


/things that make you say, hmm...


Pfft, like anything's going to come of this. Kudos to whoever took this plunge, but nothing's going to change yet.

/Hopefully I'm wrong, but still.
 
2013-05-15 06:02:49 PM

dv-ous: imfallen_angel: Next to be looked into should be the taxes on gas, which consist of 75% (or more) of the prices, supposed to be for road maintenance and such....

The roads are so bad that I feel that I'm always going through an obstacle course every day.

One particular pothole was so bad that even at low speed, with passengers, I ended up touching the ground with the axel, and that was trying to go around it.

75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x874]


Turkey govt really gobble  gobble gobbles those fuel taxes
 
2013-05-15 07:01:56 PM

Bennie Crabtree: Europe has a much longer and mucgh more effective history of revolution than the USA,


How are you defining "effective"?
 
2013-05-15 07:32:58 PM

stuffy: And just like in the US after all the hoopla, nothing will have changed.


Indeed. Theater, nothing more.

/ make billions, get fined millions, no one goes to jail... why the fark shouldn't they do it?
 
2013-05-15 07:41:38 PM
When markets are left to police themselves ... they're cordoned off to everybody else.
 
2013-05-15 07:42:40 PM

CygnusDarius: Yup, I know where this is headed.

Then, oil becomes so scarce that we're suddenly fighting off the Chinese that are trying to get Alaska, and then get the US annexes Canada.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 770x512]

/Good thing my cushy job in Vault-Tec has me covered


img405.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-15 08:03:39 PM
Yes, regardless of what libertardians think, unregulated industries ALWAYS end up screwing people over.
 
2013-05-15 08:53:27 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Lord Oakeshott, former Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, said the alleged rigging of oil prices was "as serious as rigging Libor"

Well that's not saying much.  Rigging libor, which consisted of banks underestimating their own borrowing costs (with a wink and a nod of regulators) during the financial crisis, and traders in other times nudging it up or down a basis point to improve their own bottom lines relative to other traders, wasn't remotely as serious as finance illiterates (like Lord Oakeshott apparently) think it was.  For every saver who gained or lost a few dollars in interest based on 'rigging', there was a borrower who gained or lost those dollars.   If you had an adjustable rate loan during the financial crisis, you benefited from the 'rigging'.  Conversely, if you were in derivative position that would benefit from rates going up, you lost.   The parties involved should be disciplined, and the process itself should be reformed, but the actual net gain/loss to society was pretty immaterial.

Oil companies illegally rigging prices would, in fact, be a serious deal.  However, given that this was written in Rolling Stone we can safely assume that it is complete nonsense.


Wow...I knew you liked sucking the corporate cock, but you're flat-out wrong about both Libor and Rolling Stone.
 
2013-05-15 09:13:13 PM
Am I the only one that the noticed the article said nothing specific? Other than a raid, why am I supposed to be mad?
 
2013-05-15 09:51:10 PM

PunGent: attila the hun's space age techno-babble: PunGent: LessO2: Only wish electric cars had more range and would be more affordable.   Would love to tell Big Oil to suck it.

Big Coal isn't exactly unhappy about the prospect either :)

Timothy Mitchell argues the way coal is produced and transported led to the creation of truly democratic states, while the way oil is produced and transported has enabled new forms of authoritarianism - so go big coal I guess  :) http://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Democracy-Political-Power-Age/dp/1781681 1 63/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368203156&sr=1-1&keywords=carbon+de mocracy

Huh...never heard that argument before.

Good book?


Yeah, great book. With coal, he argues workers had the ability to cut the flow of global energy at multiple points, which gave them far more leverage than ever before. He argues Winston Churchill was key to replacing coal with oil in the Royal Navy because he feared that workers strikes could cripple the war effort during and just after WWI. Since oil requires far fewer workers to extract, oil companies had to make far fewer concessions to the working class. Instead, they made concessions to the nationalist governments that controlled the oil (at least after the 40s), which were often deeply unpopular and authoritarian.
 
2013-05-15 11:17:03 PM

Lando Lincoln: Yeah, nothing's gonna happen. They might get fined billions of dollars, but that's nothing to them and it will continue to be business as usual.

Hey, I've got an idea: let's stop burning oil as soon as we can.


No they will simply move onto the next scam.

 These people need to be put into prison...at the very least.
 
2013-05-16 01:12:50 AM
Rush Limburger will beg to differ.
 
2013-05-16 09:56:19 AM

attila the hun's space age techno-babble: PunGent: attila the hun's space age techno-babble: PunGent: LessO2: Only wish electric cars had more range and would be more affordable.   Would love to tell Big Oil to suck it.

Big Coal isn't exactly unhappy about the prospect either :)

Timothy Mitchell argues the way coal is produced and transported led to the creation of truly democratic states, while the way oil is produced and transported has enabled new forms of authoritarianism - so go big coal I guess  :) http://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Democracy-Political-Power-Age/dp/1781681 1 63/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368203156&sr=1-1&keywords=carbon+de mocracy

Huh...never heard that argument before.

Good book?

Yeah, great book. With coal, he argues workers had the ability to cut the flow of global energy at multiple points, which gave them far more leverage than ever before. He argues Winston Churchill was key to replacing coal with oil in the Royal Navy because he feared that workers strikes could cripple the war effort during and just after WWI. Since oil requires far fewer workers to extract, oil companies had to make far fewer concessions to the working class. Instead, they made concessions to the nationalist governments that controlled the oil (at least after the 40s), which were often deeply unpopular and authoritarian.


Interesting, I'll have to check it out.  But I hope the author acknowledges it's not the ONLY argument for switching from coal to oil for ships...energy density is very important, especially for naval vessels.
 
2013-05-16 11:22:07 AM
Having worked for 2 of those 3 oil companies... I can say, they should be able to find plenty of proof... Considering they found it before, fined them a small amount, and the company promised to clean up its act.

And didn't.
 
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