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(Rolling Stone)   The oil markets are rigged and Europe is actually doing something about it   (rollingstone.com) divider line 120
    More: Hero, European Commission, Europe, raid, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, oil companies, Libor, financial markets, Office of Fair Trading  
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20169 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 1:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 02:19:36 PM

meanyogurt: It's almost as if there was a large populous country with a growing demand for the stuff...http://au.businessinsider.com/no-chinese-hard-landing-2013-5


As taken from your link - people should be very, very concerned with this growth. Unless you're investing in oil futures/oil companies, this is going to really negatively impact US transportation fuel prices in the coming years.
static.businessinsider.com
Affordable, off-the-shelf solutions to avoid this are available in showrooms and stores today.
 
2013-05-15 02:20:14 PM
www.duramaxforum.com

/Sorry
 
2013-05-15 02:21:42 PM

Charlie Chingas: Walker: Is this the final countdown?

No, this is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o2ufv_c0xI


No, this is and will always be the final Final Countdown.

/there are NO good versions of that gawdawful song
 
2013-05-15 02:23:20 PM
Meh ... even at $6-7/gallon, gas is cheap ... and I'll still be running my V8 :)

In fact, please bring back the high gas prices of summer 2008 ... I miss how empty the roads become and how my commute is so much less stressful as well.

badges.fuelly.com
 
2013-05-15 02:27:13 PM

dv-ous: 75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)


There's the basic tax of the gas, which is what your graphic shows.

But then they had other taxes (federal taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, transit tax, good and service taxes, then provincial taxes).

Here's a quick search that shows a perspective... maybe not 75%, but damn high enough to have a serious impact... and it varies greatly from Province to Province.

http://www.bcgasprices.com/can_tax_info.aspx

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx
 
2013-05-15 02:28:59 PM
As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.
 
2013-05-15 02:30:08 PM

imfallen_angel: dv-ous: 75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

There's the basic tax of the gas, which is what your graphic shows.

But then they had other taxes (federal taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, transit tax, good and service taxes, then provincial taxes).

Here's a quick search that shows a perspective... maybe not 75%, but damn high enough to have a serious impact... and it varies greatly from Province to Province.

http://www.bcgasprices.com/can_tax_info.aspx

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx


You chart shows, in the highest province/area in Canada, that tax only accounts for 71c per gallon.  Uh, last time I checked, gas was trending here in cheap, old America at $3.80/gallon, which means that 71/380 = ~19% of the cost ...

You missed it by a factor of nearly 4 ... :facepalm:

ayearofholidays.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-15 02:30:32 PM
Yea, good luck with that Europe.
 
2013-05-15 02:32:34 PM

Elzar: As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.


i1.cpcache.com
 
2013-05-15 02:36:46 PM
i.imgur.com

The only news here is that someone in the Government is investigating it.

I did hear on the news this morning that the U.S. is rising to #2 in oil production... too bad we don't do something to restrict exports because it doesn't matter one fark until we do.
 
2013-05-15 02:36:55 PM

dkimball: Doesn't OPEC set "basic" pricing?


Not directly.  They manipulate pricing by controlling the supply/production.
 
2013-05-15 02:37:30 PM
Hope the EU fines them to oblivion. That might maybe make my govt. finally consider thorium.
 
2013-05-15 02:38:01 PM

Elzar: As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.


I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of getting to work not smelling like Chewbacca's armpits.
 
2013-05-15 02:38:01 PM

dragonchild: iheartscotch: I've always wondered why we don't have price controls on oil and gas. We are, more or less, a captive market.

Because the best long-interest is to control them by making them high, driving innovation.  Making gasoline $8/gallon by imposing a huge tax and using the tax to invest in infrastructure would be a huge boon to society -- AFTER about a decade of serious pain, so no politician could even jokingly suggest it without being blacklisted from office.  People suggest controls to make energy artificially cheap, but that only encourages waste.

And hell if we're a captive market.  The people complaining the loudest about fuel prices use way more than they need and scoff at any attempts to reduce consumption as part of the liberal "let's all move back into caves" agenda.  Hell, I live in an uber-liberal state that uses a lot of heating oil, which impacts gasoline prices.  The same people biatching about how oil prices are killing them think turning the thermostat below 70F is prison camp treatment, and half the vehicles on the road are full-size SUVs.


Load of crap, Europe has imposed high taxes for a very long time and it has led to nothing. Nothing beyond total government implication and control will change the situation.
 
2013-05-15 02:40:56 PM

stuffy: And just like in the US after all the hoopla, nothing will have changed.


Europe has a much longer and mucgh more effective history of revolution than the USA, and most of the states in the EU have a much more diverse and dynamic party system. Also, the nationalism in the members states of the EU is still very strong, so even if England and Germany resist change, other states can psuh them around. There are all the necessary reasons for change to happen.
 
2013-05-15 02:42:05 PM
Article is about 50% correct.

The Saudis have been jacking the price of oil for years, by shoveling money under the table to terrorist groups, and no one does anything about it.

The press doesn't report it for $ome rea$on or another.
 
2013-05-15 02:42:07 PM

seadoo2006: imfallen_angel: dv-ous: 75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

There's the basic tax of the gas, which is what your graphic shows.

But then they had other taxes (federal taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, transit tax, good and service taxes, then provincial taxes).

Here's a quick search that shows a perspective... maybe not 75%, but damn high enough to have a serious impact... and it varies greatly from Province to Province.

http://www.bcgasprices.com/can_tax_info.aspx

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx

You chart shows, in the highest province/area in Canada, that tax only accounts for 71c per gallon.  Uh, last time I checked, gas was trending here in cheap, old America at $3.80/gallon, which means that 71/380 = ~19% of the cost ...

You missed it by a factor of nearly 4 ... :facepalm:

[ayearofholidays.files.wordpress.com image 600x423]


psstt.. that's per litre...not gallons.

You might need to recalculate things.
 
2013-05-15 02:42:59 PM
Most markets are rigged

/ftfy
 
2013-05-15 02:44:21 PM

Dr Dreidel: Elzar: As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of getting to work not smelling like Chewbacca's armpits.


Your corporate campus doesn't have showers? What kind of blue-collar shiathole do you work in?
 
2013-05-15 02:45:53 PM

dv-ous: imfallen_angel: Next to be looked into should be the taxes on gas, which consist of 75% (or more) of the prices, supposed to be for road maintenance and such....

The roads are so bad that I feel that I'm always going through an obstacle course every day.

One particular pothole was so bad that even at low speed, with passengers, I ended up touching the ground with the axel, and that was trying to go around it.

75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x874]


Mexico pays you to buy gas? Cool!
 
2013-05-15 02:46:23 PM

Lando Lincoln: Yeah, nothing's gonna happen. They might get fined billions of dollars, but that's nothing to them and it will continue to be business as usual.

Hey, I've got an idea: let's stop burning oil as soon as we can.


Yes because all the people involved will go wash the feet of lepers becuase they can no longer make money in oil.
 
2013-05-15 02:46:23 PM

imfallen_angel: seadoo2006: imfallen_angel: dv-ous: 75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

There's the basic tax of the gas, which is what your graphic shows.

But then they had other taxes (federal taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, transit tax, good and service taxes, then provincial taxes).

Here's a quick search that shows a perspective... maybe not 75%, but damn high enough to have a serious impact... and it varies greatly from Province to Province.

http://www.bcgasprices.com/can_tax_info.aspx

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx

You chart shows, in the highest province/area in Canada, that tax only accounts for 71c per gallon.  Uh, last time I checked, gas was trending here in cheap, old America at $3.80/gallon, which means that 71/380 = ~19% of the cost ...

You missed it by a factor of nearly 4 ... :facepalm:

[ayearofholidays.files.wordpress.com image 600x423]

psstt.. that's per litre...not gallons.

You might need to recalculate things.


Ah shiat ...

kellsmurthwaite.files.wordpress.com

I retract what I said, haha.
 
2013-05-15 02:50:21 PM

imfallen_angel: Next to be looked into should be the taxes on gas, which consist of 75% (or more) of the prices, supposed to be for road maintenance and such....

The roads are so bad that I feel that I'm always going through an obstacle course every day.

One particular pothole was so bad that even at low speed, with passengers, I ended up touching the ground with the axel, and that was trying to go around it.


You must live in Ontario. You are right. the pot holes are so bad that the other day I hit one and my hub cap bounced right off.
 
2013-05-15 02:51:52 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Why yes, it's national treasure Matt Taibbi.
I'll never understand the Rolling Stone thing.


For a certain type of journalist, "Hunter S. Thompson's old gig" is a powerful draw.

Taibbi fills that niche rather well.
 
2013-05-15 02:54:28 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Why yes, it's national treasure Matt Taibbi.
I'll never understand the Rolling Stone thing.


You don't understand actual reporting? You trust only Fox? What?
 
2013-05-15 02:56:50 PM

Elzar: Dr Dreidel: Elzar: As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of getting to work not smelling like Chewbacca's armpits.

Your corporate campus doesn't have showers? What kind of blue-collar shiathole do you work in?


An office building in Crystal City, down the block from the Pentagon? (One of two, actually, and AFAIK, neither has a gym.)

// I was snarking on you - a bit of light joshing, based on the runners I knew from other jobs
// I work with lots of military folk, some of whom run on their lunch hours - I assume there's a shower somewhere, as the LT doesn't generally smell like the ass-end of a Taco Bell grease trap
 
2013-05-15 03:00:11 PM

Astorix: imfallen_angel: Next to be looked into should be the taxes on gas, which consist of 75% (or more) of the prices, supposed to be for road maintenance and such....

The roads are so bad that I feel that I'm always going through an obstacle course every day.

One particular pothole was so bad that even at low speed, with passengers, I ended up touching the ground with the axel, and that was trying to go around it.

You must live in Ontario. You are right. the pot holes are so bad that the other day I hit one and my hub cap bounced right off.


Capital area.... so I cross from side to side every day.

Both side are almost just as bad in some areas but the Quebec side it's more pronounced as in potholes are everywhere. At least in Ottawa, it's more localized.
 
2013-05-15 03:00:20 PM
But remember, these are job creators here in the United States, who need tax cuts to somehow keep their prices down.  There's no way this rent-seeking behavior could have catastrophic net-costs to an energy dependent economy, right?  It's not like oil price is a fundamental component of inflation in this country.  At all.
 
2013-05-15 03:01:52 PM

LessO2: Only wish electric cars had more range and would be more affordable.   Would love to tell Big Oil to suck it.


They'll get there. Electrics are a lot more accessible today than they were 5 years ago, and I'd bet they'll make similar progress (or better) in the next 5 years.
 
2013-05-15 03:02:16 PM
I think I know a part of this one.

Why is oil $90 instead of $50? Because smart producers know they can get $90 and sell less per year therefore making their limited resource last longer at that higher price.

What I don't get is the push for natural gas drilling right now. It's an over supplied product and industry should be focused on increasing demand. Unless I'm just reading it wrong and they know something I don't.
 
2013-05-15 03:03:18 PM

Pick: It's supply and demand. Remember that, Citizen. Now run along, and go about your business.


Why do Europeans hate the Free Market?
 
2013-05-15 03:03:57 PM
Lord Oakeshott, former Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, said the alleged rigging of oil prices was "as serious as rigging Libor"

Well that's not saying much.  Rigging libor, which consisted of banks underestimating their own borrowing costs (with a wink and a nod of regulators) during the financial crisis, and traders in other times nudging it up or down a basis point to improve their own bottom lines relative to other traders, wasn't remotely as serious as finance illiterates (like Lord Oakeshott apparently) think it was.  For every saver who gained or lost a few dollars in interest based on 'rigging', there was a borrower who gained or lost those dollars.   If you had an adjustable rate loan during the financial crisis, you benefited from the 'rigging'.  Conversely, if you were in derivative position that would benefit from rates going up, you lost.   The parties involved should be disciplined, and the process itself should be reformed, but the actual net gain/loss to society was pretty immaterial.

Oil companies illegally rigging prices would, in fact, be a serious deal.  However, given that this was written in Rolling Stone we can safely assume that it is complete nonsense.
 
2013-05-15 03:10:25 PM

Elzar: As a run commuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty Prius drivers and your ridiculous carbon footprints. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.


As a telecommuter all I can do is look down my nose at you poor shiatty runners and your ridiculous carbon footprints of running shoe manufacturers. I hope big oil continues to fark all of you in the ass - you deserve it for your wanton destruction of mother earth.

Just so you can see what an ass you sound like.
 
2013-05-15 03:12:43 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: God-is-a-Taco: Why yes, it's national treasure Matt Taibbi.
I'll never understand the Rolling Stone thing.

You don't understand actual reporting? You trust only Fox? What?


What I meant was that it's a rather odd choice of avenue for real journalism.
Although, I suppose I'm implying that he had a choice, it could just be that the other news organizations don't want anyone questioning their shareholders.
 
2013-05-15 03:16:31 PM
cdn.hark.com

/So it's a *profit* deal!!!
 
2013-05-15 03:17:27 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Lord Oakeshott, former Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, said the alleged rigging of oil prices was "as serious as rigging Libor"

Well that's not saying much.  Rigging libor, which consisted of banks underestimating their own borrowing costs (with a wink and a nod of regulators) during the financial crisis, and traders in other times nudging it up or down a basis point to improve their own bottom lines relative to other traders, wasn't remotely as serious as finance illiterates (like Lord Oakeshott apparently) think it was.  For every saver who gained or lost a few dollars in interest based on 'rigging', there was a borrower who gained or lost those dollars.   If you had an adjustable rate loan during the financial crisis, you benefited from the 'rigging'.  Conversely, if you were in derivative position that would benefit from rates going up, you lost.   The parties involved should be disciplined, and the process itself should be reformed, but the actual net gain/loss to society was pretty immaterial.

Oil companies illegally rigging prices would, in fact, be a serious deal.  However, given that this was written in Rolling Stone we can safely assume that it is complete nonsense.


Yeah, we all need to get our news from Fox, that way we can be demonstrably more wrong about the news than anyone else. Or, we could listen to booger-eating trolls like you with internet GEDs in economics.
 
2013-05-15 03:25:28 PM

Cubicle Jockey: Oh god... the Tom Friedman Article Generator he linked to in one of his earlier articles is farking GENIUS.

http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/


I LOL'd.
 
2013-05-15 03:31:25 PM
RIGGER, please.
 
2013-05-15 03:31:57 PM
Oil companies are vertically oriented. From exploration to the pump. Why did anyone think that the oil oligarchy wouldn't collude to fix prices? The member companies' very structures means they are trying to fix prices.
 
2013-05-15 03:32:01 PM
I hear Chase may have need of upper management if it doesn't work out robbing the people of Europe blind.
 
2013-05-15 03:44:31 PM
Yup, I know where this is headed.

Then, oil becomes so scarce that we're suddenly fighting off the Chinese that are trying to get Alaska, and then get the US annexes Canada.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

/Good thing my cushy job in Vault-Tec has me covered
 
2013-05-15 03:54:37 PM

seadoo2006: imfallen_angel: seadoo2006: imfallen_angel: dv-ous: 75%? Are you sure about that? (I mean, you live in Canada according to your profile.)

There's the basic tax of the gas, which is what your graphic shows.

But then they had other taxes (federal taxes, sale taxes, excise taxes, transit tax, good and service taxes, then provincial taxes).

Here's a quick search that shows a perspective... maybe not 75%, but damn high enough to have a serious impact... and it varies greatly from Province to Province.

http://www.bcgasprices.com/can_tax_info.aspx

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx

You chart shows, in the highest province/area in Canada, that tax only accounts for 71c per gallon.  Uh, last time I checked, gas was trending here in cheap, old America at $3.80/gallon, which means that 71/380 = ~19% of the cost ...

You missed it by a factor of nearly 4 ... :facepalm:

[ayearofholidays.files.wordpress.com image 600x423]

psstt.. that's per litre...not gallons.

You might need to recalculate things.

Ah shiat ...

[kellsmurthwaite.files.wordpress.com image 210x234]

I retract what I said, haha.


You didn't happen to work on a NASA project to Mars a while back, did you?
 
2013-05-15 03:56:04 PM

iheartscotch: I've always wondered why we don't have price controls on oil and gas. We are, more or less, a captive market.

I mean, we've got price controls in agriculture and many other areas; but, not in the most important area to the economy.


Price controls to keep prices LOW inevitably results in shortages.

Agriculture has price controls to keep them high.
 
2013-05-15 03:58:20 PM

TenJed_77: Load of crap, Europe has imposed high taxes for a very long time and it has led to nothing.


America isn't Europe, and as an American I'm reminded of it constantly.
 
2013-05-15 04:00:34 PM

wildcardjack: I think I know a part of this one.

Why is oil $90 instead of $50? Because smart producers know they can get $90 and sell less per year therefore making their limited resource last longer at that higher price.

What I don't get is the push for natural gas drilling right now. It's an over supplied product and industry should be focused on increasing demand. Unless I'm just reading it wrong and they know something I don't.


They are focusing on increasing demand - NG power plants are being built like crazy right now.

Thing is, they take time to build.  It's not like they come from China in pretty boxes after some doof in a turtleneck announces them a month before.
 
2013-05-15 04:06:01 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Why yes, it's national treasure Matt Taibbi.
I'll never understand the Rolling Stone thing.


the "thing" is the major news outlets are all owned by Wall st and Big Business. they don't bother investigating or reporting on such things until they're full blown public spectacle and then they get a small blurb while we move on to what Honey Boo Boo's mom is wearing at her wedding.

EVERYTHING IS RIGGED includes public information
 
2013-05-15 04:06:51 PM

que.guero: As someone who just paid $6.27 a gallon today, I am getting a kick out of all these replies.


That came with a blow, right?
 
2013-05-15 04:08:49 PM

dragonchild: TenJed_77: Load of crap, Europe has imposed high taxes for a very long time and it has led to nothing.

America isn't Europe, and as an American I'm reminded of it constantly.


Go move there then.  Europe is hardly a panacea of anything at all.  Hey, maybe those Germans can start killing everybody else again while you're there.
 
2013-05-15 04:14:36 PM
From the first article...
"Moreover, it's increasingly clear that both the criminal justice system and the civil courts may be impotent to stop them, even when they do get caught working together to game the system."
-=-
 Because they hold all the money that makes the world go around, they will crash the system if you fark with them.
So I say...

imageshack.us
 
rka
2013-05-15 04:20:09 PM

lilbjorn: Don't expect to see this in America, where Congress is a wholly-own subsidiary of the oil industry.


Yeah, it's not like BP and Royal Dutch Shell have any deep seated ties to European governments...at all.
 
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