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(International Business Times)   Columbia University has finally decided that its "whites-only" scholarship is a bad idea   (ibtimes.com) divider line 162
    More: Obvious, Columbia University, scholarships, white people, Trust  
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10348 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 2:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-05-15 02:42:32 PM  
16 votes:
Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?
2013-05-15 02:41:40 PM  
12 votes:
Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.
2013-05-15 02:43:32 PM  
10 votes:
But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.
2013-05-15 12:40:36 PM  
9 votes:
Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?
2013-05-15 02:44:18 PM  
7 votes:

Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".


Which is a stupid argument... Pendulums are supposed to swing both ways.  A minority group should have no right to complain about whitey getting his own scholarship if they get to have one for their particular group.
2013-05-15 03:11:29 PM  
6 votes:

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?
2013-05-15 02:55:13 PM  
6 votes:
Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.
2013-05-15 02:45:18 PM  
6 votes:
As a white man, I thank God for the Internet, without which I'd have no idea how unfair life is to me
2013-05-15 02:44:33 PM  
6 votes:
There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?
2013-05-15 03:21:02 PM  
5 votes:

Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better


I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping
2013-05-15 03:16:59 PM  
4 votes:
I think I finally get it;

Racism for Whites = Pariah
Racism for Blacks = Acceptable/tolerable
Racism for Asians = Once acceptable but they assimilated too quickly so it's now almost as bad as being a racist white.
Racism for Hispanics = Acceptable if they vote Democratic, Pariah if they vote Republican.
2013-05-15 03:04:11 PM  
4 votes:
It's only racist when white people do it.
2013-05-15 02:52:16 PM  
4 votes:
Many scholarships are supported by a private backer or two, often the estate of some rich person. If that person/group/estate want to make a fund to help students of some kind (be they majority or minority), I feel they should be allowed.

While I understand that statistically many groups are disadvantaged over others, and in the service of trying to "equalizing" everyone it is "better" to target disadvantaged persons, that does not mean you should not be allowed to help out people of a traditionally/statistically advantaged group.


All the same, I think scholarships should be based on need and merit only, myself.

/white male who received scholarships due to coming from poor family and having good grades
//just because some white men are the richest and most powerful does not mean all whites and males are rich and powerful.
2013-05-15 02:51:01 PM  
4 votes:
In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?
2013-05-15 02:50:43 PM  
4 votes:

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted. These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.


Isn't that interesting because, according to the TFA, Columbia is claiming in court that "Columbia University is now prohibited by law and University policy from discriminating on the basis of race." So, I guess Columbia has now judicially admitted that it violates the law, assuming it is handing out those scholarships that you listed.
2013-05-15 05:32:55 PM  
3 votes:

Bumblefark: the money is in the banana stand: The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships.

The people who get worked up about reverse racism are entitled white folks with a persecution complex afraid that the darkies might ever benefit from the color of their skin. They're pretty much cool with the advantages that come to them by way of their own skin color (or at least deliberately unaware of them), because...that like totally doesn't count, since that's done in a mostly unspoken way. And besides, "OMG racism was solved YEARS ago! I don't/refuse to see it, therefore it doesn't exist! LALALALALALALALA...fingers in my ears!"


My problem is that as long as we keep trying to balance things out by putting our thumbs on the scales, we're never going to reach the goal (I would hope it's the goal) of a colorblind society. At some point everyone needs to get over their entitlement and butthurt and be willing to move forward, and that just can't happen as long as we're still clinging to the pseudo-scientific BS we call 'race' as a political football.
2013-05-15 05:20:28 PM  
3 votes:

Magorn: Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU and where you start out in life?


Great-grandparents my ass, you don't even need that long to get out of the institutionalized discrimination.

Is it really so impossible for you to understand, that if your grandparents immigrated here with absolutely nothing, worked their asses off and made their kids go to school, that in a single generation you could have access to anything and everything?

Do you know how many stories there are of people growing up with nothing, working hard and ultimately becoming successful?  Do you know who the current POTUS is?

How long are you gonna whine?  My great-grandma experienced racism, therefore I deserve special treatment?  How about no.  Work harder jack-ass.
2013-05-15 04:01:46 PM  
3 votes:

Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


I have some GREAT news for you!  I just did a highly scientific study of pulling up Google, entering the phrase "percent women in ______  school " and quickly substituted "law" "medical" and "journalism."  Looks like women are currently over represented in journalism school and roughly equally represented in medical and law school.  When I substituted simply "college" the numbers jumped even higher.  Apparently MEN are now underrepresented in US colleges and it may be time for us to start getting some of that exclusive, no womenz allowed, free money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?pagewanted=a ll &_r=0

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/aug/18/women-dominate-j-school-enr ol lment/

Anyway, I think we can safely do away with these silly, "women only" scholarships.  Don't you?
2013-05-15 03:08:25 PM  
3 votes:

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.


Reverse discrimination? Nope I wouldnt call it that.
just plain old hypocrisy. Its 2013 nobody going to college had to sit at the back of the bus
2013-05-15 03:07:04 PM  
3 votes:

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.


So you failed history? Tell us, why should someone whose family was not in America have to "pay" for the sins of those in the past?
2013-05-15 03:04:57 PM  
3 votes:

Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?
2013-05-15 03:00:03 PM  
3 votes:

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?
2013-05-15 02:48:00 PM  
3 votes:
So when I was in college is was okay for me to be ineligible for certain scholarships because I'm not black, hispanic or native american?
2013-05-15 01:28:21 PM  
3 votes:
Both black people in Iowa are celebrating the end of this injustice.
2013-05-16 02:03:27 AM  
2 votes:

Bumblefark: I'm not sure you've got a very tight grasp on what the nature of the problem is. Racial attitudes really aren't the issue. True bigots are pretty few and far between these days. I think we're just about as enlightened as we're going to get.

The problem is something sociologists call "cumulative disadvantage." Basically, really small differences in how we treat people tend to snowball over time. Across a single lifetime, the effects can produce wildly divergent outcomes in terms of opportunities and quality of life. Across generations, those snowballs turn into mountains. Screaming, "but I'm an INNOCENT, I wasn't even HERE when the first snowflake fell" -- yeah, that's true. You are morally unsullied. Want a cookie for that? Or, are you capable of putting that aside, and thinking about what might be best for the health of a society.

Because: a healthy society, we are not. Come down to my neck of the woods. I'll show a city so insidiously segregated in terms of race, it would have made the Jim Crow enthusiasts wet their pants to think such a thing could be possible without ever having to put on a pointy hood in the middle of the night...


Doesn't your argument basically provide for "African-American only scholarships are racist against Latinos" and/or "Latino only scholarships are racist against African-Americans?" Why not just use economic need. If the cumulative disadvantage is as massive as you say it is (which it very well could be), wouldn't that reflect that just as accurately? Why not use disadvantage instead of perceived disadvantage? My point is that race-based distribution of anything breeds bigotry. You're just asking for "he took my job," "she took my education" attitudes to become the norm. I'd rather see the culture even out than ping-pong between who resents who this decade.

As for racial segregation in an urban environment... if you've got 10 minutes: Link
2013-05-16 01:30:48 AM  
2 votes:

Highroller48: Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!


You know there actually a lot of disadvantaged white people.  You don't have to think to hard to think of an area overflowing with white trash in America, that is to say an area full of poor white kids who are the product of poor white uneducated parents.  The kind of families where no one's ever gone to college, where scholastic achievement is mocked and belittled.

Sure, their whiteness might give them a little advantage in life, if they can overcome the base disadvantage they've got, including the prejudice other white people have against white trash.

It's really insulting to a kid to say to them "Okay, you come from an illiterate family where no one in the last fifty years has held a proper job, with five brothers and sisters who all dropped out of high school, and a drunk daddy who alternately beat and raped you and yet still managed to graduate high school with good enough grades to get into college, and if you can't get some help you'll have to give up and work a pole, but you're white, so you're privileged, so fark you."

Needs-based grants aimed at underprivileged white kids shouldn't raise eyebrows.
2013-05-15 09:19:03 PM  
2 votes:

Bumblefark: super_grass: Bumblefark: super_grass: Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.

There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

[freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com image 405x271]

Why, yes, I *do* think the goal posts look better back there.

Nice jerb.

/should I explain why that chart doesn't prove what you think it does?

Are you implying that policies don't have side-effects that are not written down? There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

By the way, passive aggressive dismissal of contradictory data isn't going to prove you any more right either. If you think there's more to the argument, explain it through instead of being wry.

The exchange you stepped into was about the existence or non-existence of quota systems. I interpreted your remark as an attempt to preempt that, maybe because you knew how that argument was going to have to play out. Clearly, I over-read. Dick move on my part.

Yes, of course there is a difference between practice and policy. I just don't think it is all that great of one. So, t ...


Read about Grutter vs. Boelinger. Pretty crazy. Perfect SAT score got them 4 points. Being black got you 20, out of a 150 point acceptance scale I believe.

Being white is actually a huge handicap in this country. All businesses, colleges have affirmative action policies either explicitly or implicitly. Being a white male even worse. I think white males should stop working, collect welfare, let everyone else shoulder the burden for a while.
2013-05-15 07:21:47 PM  
2 votes:

Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.


There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com
2013-05-15 06:56:58 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: In the long run, and in an ideal world where people actually change their attitudes based on scorning, and that scorning actually 'happens'...Maybe you'd be right.

But we have a world where Republican would-be nominees for the Presidency do everything shy of calling him a 'ni**er' on national TV and nothing ever happens to him. Where the Republican nominee puts on TANNER to appear browner so as to appeal to Hispanics and his party and companions don't scorn him over it.

We live in a world where racism exists, alive and well and barely veiled most of the time. And simply having people call them 'dumb racists' doesn't work when they don't 'care' what us liberal bleeding heart idiots think of them. They take pride in scorning 'us' for our beliefs in equality.

So, no. Simply scorning them verbally doesn't work. At all.

So, find me a solution that 'works'.


Is your generation more or less racist than your parents'? Is the generation after yours more or less racist than yours? Sweeping cultural changes take time. I realize that doesn't help the people in the mean-time, but pretending there's anything that's going to lead to a solution now is reckless. And honestly, going, "it's your job to make up for what white people" when your ancestors weren't even in the US until the 50s... you see how that could create a creeping adversarial feeling where none would have existed otherwise?

I'm not saying that telling of some racist douche is going to fix them. I'm saying if the general consensus of society is "that's not acceptable" will eventually fade it out. No, I have no idea how many generations it'll take, but I still think it'll succeed quicker than a constant us v. them mentality.
2013-05-15 06:26:02 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?

I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.

What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.

Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.

You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.

Being white is awesome.  Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.


Being white is never a cause for being pulled over? As a white person who has been cuffed and put in the back of a police car not once but twice for being in the ghetto after dark, that's bullshiat.

White people are never arrested on vague descriptions? As someone whose neighbor and good friend was arrested for rape because he fit the description (5'10" scraggly white guy) of the perp and was out on his porch at the wrong time - that's bullshiat.

And as someone who has not gotten jobs for my political beliefs (you're not a good fit) and personal appearance (your hair is too long), the idea that whites can't be passed over for bullshiat reasons is itself bullshiat.

Note that I'm NOT saying that black people can't experience these things. And I'm NOT saying that when black people do experience racism it is somehow unimportant because I have also experienced racism.

I'm saying that your strawman that white people have perfect lives where they never experience the sharp end of discrimination is just that - a strawman composed of bullshiat.
2013-05-15 06:01:28 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.


I don't have anything against that.  I just dislike that your solution is racist.

I got no beef with helping out inner city school kids.  But you're only helping out the minorities who went to inner city schools.

Give me a form of discrimination and I will happily detail you how I would like to see it addressed.  But there isn't a single one that we should address with another form of discrimination.  You see, I have this dream...
2013-05-15 05:53:03 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?

People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others.  And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.


And then the very instant that stops, balance is achieved, everything has been corrected, then we can abolish the concept of race?

Sorry, I think there are too many people who will abuse any system that officially condones any kind of racial favoritism and actively work to perpetuate it; regardless of the purity of your intentions.

I think we'll get to a more just society a lot faster in with a lot less conflict if we just do our best to eliminate any recognition of any race except 'human', teach children of all colors that melanin levels don't have any more significance than how much sunscreen they'll need, and let all flavors of racism die out.
2013-05-15 05:39:06 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.


Wow.  While I await your citations on that first claim, it seems you're implying black people do get pulled over because they vaguely resemble a suspect.  I'd really like to know how often that occurs.  I mean, does every black person everywhere get pulled over?  Do they get pulled over multiple times?  How often do black people get pulled over merely for being black?

Infernalist: Being white is awesome. Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.


Ah, yeah, that's a great idea.  I'll look to Chris Rock for some valuable information.  Seems reliable.

Infernalist: Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.


I don't get it.  Again, you're saying because some individuals are racist for whites, we need to enact racist laws against whites to counteract those individuals.  Somehow that doesn't make sense to me yet seems great to you.  It's one of those "two wrongs don't make a right" sorta deals.

Infernalist: You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.


Hehe yeah, or like when white people used to apply to the University of Michigan, the minorities started with a 20 point bonus.  It's like the white people were already at third base!  Of course, that practice was deemed bad.  Not the racist bit, just the giving it an exact number bit.
2013-05-15 05:29:35 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?


That's a great point.  But you've lost yourself.  That great point directly contradicts your argument.  We're arguing against using race.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, do african-americans need an african americans-only scholarship?
2013-05-15 05:04:26 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise. Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?" The answer, of course, is yes. Justice requires it. An important part of equal treatment under the law is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated. You don't get to go "yeah that was wrong, my bad, I'll just stop doing that. So we're cool now, right?" You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.


First off, you are comparing apples to elephants. A more accurate way to compare your two scenarios is to punish Ariel Castro's (imaginary) grandchildren because of a crime he a committed.

Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?
2013-05-15 05:02:38 PM  
2 votes:
I see this is the thread where losers who made poor life decisions blame PC for keeping them down. Cool
2013-05-15 04:41:37 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were ...


How do you know how I, or anyone started out in life?  If my great great great grandfather was the biggest slave owner in Virginia, and my great grandfather was a World War 1 war profiteer who was grand wizard of the KKK, and my grandfather invested his inheritance in stocks that skyrocketed while personally discriminating whenever possible, and my father knocked up his high school girlfriend who secretly gave me up to an orphanage, then what farking advantage do I have?  None of the supposed benefits and advantages that my racist ancestors accrued to me  Yet racial preferences would potentially put a black kid whose father is a doctor ahead of me in line for a spot in college.  If we are helping the disadvantaged, shouldn't we look at their current state in life rather than the average state of their "race"?  A white kid raised in poverty in a single parent household is no better off than a black kid raised in poverty in a single parent household.
2013-05-15 04:34:15 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?


There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay
2013-05-15 04:16:27 PM  
2 votes:
FTA: "We do not feel we are justified in depriving some of our students of the benefits of restricted grants simply because they are not available to everyone," he said, according to the Post.


So we should abolish this then, right?

multivu.prnewswire.com
2013-05-15 03:57:52 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"


...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?
2013-05-15 03:57:14 PM  
2 votes:
You know what. This bothers me. You would think scholarships shouldbbe doled out on academic merit, not the color of ones skin.

"B buh muh oppressed races."

Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships. Cause that would be white, and that's apparently bad.

Goddamn these people for making me even share a centimeters worth of ideological similarity to some stormfront asshat.
2013-05-15 03:50:36 PM  
2 votes:

randomjsa: I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.


But if everyone has to play by the same rules, only the superior people will rise to the top!
2013-05-15 03:44:50 PM  
2 votes:

Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


In north america women are most definatley not discriminated against in school. Nor in court.
2013-05-15 03:38:53 PM  
2 votes:

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


why do black people get to complain about white people demanding equality?
2013-05-15 03:36:23 PM  
2 votes:
How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?
2013-05-15 03:33:17 PM  
2 votes:
Scholarships at the post secondary level that intend to alter demographics are ridiculous.  The issues that cause specific demographics to choose different lines of study happen much earlier in a child's life.  If you want to appreciably alter the demographics in particular lines of study the scholarship money would be better spent on initiatives to introduce underrepresented demographics to those fields of study are an earlier time.

As an example scholarships for women in engineering are quite common because women are underrepresented in engineering. Women are underrepresented because girls are not taught math and science as well as boys. There is a cultural bias against girls who excel at math and science. This bias either turns girls away or causes teachers to spend less time assisting them with difficult concepts.

If a young woman is deciding what to study in university she's not going to pick a subject that she has done poorly at (because of these factors) simply because it has a scholarship for women.  If that money had been spent educating her or in getting her interested in math and science she might decide to give it a go.
2013-05-15 03:33:17 PM  
2 votes:
Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.
2013-05-15 03:32:59 PM  
2 votes:
Oh lawdy, too much white libertarian neckbeard butthurt in this thread.
2013-05-15 03:20:42 PM  
2 votes:

tlars699: Joe Blowme: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

By then they will have agreed they are racist

Wouldn't that be nice? Then they could use the trusts collectively to reduce tuition for everybody to go to school, based on merit.


THE HELL YOU SAY!!! Judging people based on character and not skin color? Why would you even suggest such a thing? Where do you get these crazy ideas?
2013-05-15 03:19:11 PM  
2 votes:
Getting pretty stormfronty in here.
2013-05-15 03:13:45 PM  
2 votes:

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.
2013-05-15 03:08:08 PM  
2 votes:

Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.


It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?
2013-05-15 03:04:18 PM  
2 votes:

Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


...and by "deep South" do you mean Iowa or New York? -- because the scholarship in question is for Iowans going to a school in New York.

I'm not saying that there was no discrimination in the north, but bringing the South into the discussion is a complete red herring.
2013-05-15 03:02:26 PM  
2 votes:
America: where political correctness is a bigger problem than racial inequality.

/few people realize how many victims political correctness claims every year
2013-05-15 02:59:28 PM  
2 votes:

Joe Blowme: Bullseyed: The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.

No they were not, here they are


http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/20110902racescholarships.pdf
2013-05-15 02:57:38 PM  
2 votes:

Bullseyed: The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.


No they were not, here they are
2013-05-15 02:55:14 PM  
2 votes:
When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports.

There may be something wrong with your country when a half-million dollar trust set up decades prior cannot put a student through school. Shameful.
2013-05-15 02:54:46 PM  
2 votes:
Columbia should just hand out the scholarship to whomever they want and if anyone objects simply cite Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948)  which basically said that there was nothing that stopped private parties from MAKING racially restrictive covenants on real estate (a clause in a home sale agreement stipulating that the house couldn't be re-sold to a non-white person), but for the courts to ENFORCE them would require the court to violate the 14th amendment and so they would not even hear lawsuits arising from violations of those clauses
2013-05-15 02:54:34 PM  
2 votes:
The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.
2013-05-15 02:54:10 PM  
2 votes:

UrukHaiGuyz: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Well in that case call me Picasso.



Really? You didn't go with Jacksoff Pollack?
2013-05-15 02:52:35 PM  
2 votes:

Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?


Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.
2013-05-15 02:50:52 PM  
2 votes:
What if they called it a "Historically White Scholarship", is that OK? Can they do that?
2013-05-15 02:49:11 PM  
2 votes:
Wonder if she has any descendants.  Have read about similar scholarships / endowments in the past.  When the universities try to change them, the descendants claim breach of contract and try to grab the money.
2013-05-15 02:45:22 PM  
2 votes:

thurstonxhowell: abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.

Do they? Do you know for sure that Columbia offers race-specific scholarships to black people, or do you just assume that they do?


I see that's been covered. My bad.
2013-05-15 02:08:35 PM  
2 votes:

dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?


That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".
2013-05-15 12:43:35 PM  
2 votes:
Heck, I would have gotten rid of it just based on the Iowa thing.
2013-05-16 04:37:35 PM  
1 votes:

Bumblefark: /Somebody suggested it that racial quotas were the law. I suggested that no such law exists, and (facetiously) asked them to point one out to me.


You suggested no such law exists.  I agreed with you and said, it's not a law, it's a policy.

Bumblefark: pointing out admissions forms collect racial information


No no, I didn't say admissions forms collect racial information.  I said admissions decisions utilize racial quotas.  See the connection there?  Of course you do but you can't admit it or the troll will end.

Bumblefark: But, yeah...clearly, I'm the one who's trolling.


Hanlon's razor rarely applies on Fark.com.  But it is possible you were just too stupid to see that connection.
2013-05-16 09:51:25 AM  
1 votes:

titwrench: UrukHaiGuyz: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Well in that case call me Picasso.


Really? You didn't go with Jacksoff Pollack?


Vincent Hand Gogh
2013-05-16 07:41:53 AM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: JohnnyRebel88: F it.  If they are allowed to have "minority" scholarships, they should be allowed to have a "whites only" one.  May I remind you that this is a free country, and since Columbia is a private institution, they should be to do whatever they want.

However, the most most logical act would not give aide to people because of the color of their skin, gender, religious beliefs nor sexual orientation, it should be given to a person with the best vision for a better tomorrow and actually deserve the grant or scholarship.

Truly, spoken like someone living in an ideal world.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.  We live in a world where people get rejected for things that they've earned/deserve because of their skin/ethnicity/religion/sex.

So, until we achieve that ideal world, we have to somehow make up for the assholes in the system who don't like treating people equally.

If you want to blame someone, blame Bob in Human Relations who won't hire a black man/woman.


Having represented a white client who was railroaded out of his job by two black women from HR...who perjured themselves, by the way...I'm gonna say "no".

/joke was on them, he got a better job, and his former company folded within a year
//that's what happens when you let race...ANY race...trump performance
2013-05-16 06:31:23 AM  
1 votes:

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.



So what your sayig is the approx. $16 Trillion in war on poverty spending over decades coupled with the additional decades of speical treatment under the law ("Affirmative" action, set asides and quotas) has not been enough to overcome a culture based on thugism (rap), where striving for academic achievement is regraded as acting white (why not acting Asian?), the cult of victimization and welfare and continued special treament is not only regarded as an entitlement but a now a multi-generational career choice.
2013-05-16 06:21:52 AM  
1 votes:

Highroller48: Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!



What poor disadvantaged white people might look like:

4.bp.blogspot.com
2013-05-16 06:14:02 AM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Elegy: Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.

It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?

Because it's to get underrepresented groups into colleges, which is why Asians don't get them either.

If whites were underrepresented then they should have scholarships. That's the logic to it.




But why are they underrepresented? Do they lack the same academic qualifications and if so why should they be admitted if they fai to me the requirements.

Women certainly are not underrepresented on college campuses why should they get special scholarships based on gender?
2013-05-16 01:01:50 AM  
1 votes:

rewind2846: ProfessorOhki:
Funny, I heard both, "keep hands on the steering wheel when pulled over, don't reach for registration until asked" and "don't obscure your face in a bank" as a kid. Maybe it just a matter of having parents who don't want you to end up in potentially dangerous and wholly avoidable situations?

Store, not bank. Bank is obvious, no matter what shade you are. I told him about a little experiment I and three of my shipmates tried when I was in my early 20's and in the Navy. Two black guys, an Filipino and a white guy from Georgia who couldn't believe that racism was still prevalent in the mid 80's.
We all went down to the mall in Norfolk, Virginia dressed in jeans and jackets and tshirts and athletic shoes, and I handed him my new digital watch. It had a stopwatch function, and I told him to start it when I entered a store chosen at random and stop it when the first employee came up to me and asked "may I help you?" (code for "I'm watching your ass").

I walked into the store. The employee came up to me, as promised, and asked "may I help you". I said "no thank you" and left. Total time = 17 seconds. Didn't even have time to pick up anything.
The Filipino walked into the same store. His time was almost three minutes.
The other black guy walked in, as soon as he picked an item up the employee popped the question. Time = 36 seconds.
Then the white guy strolled in. Looked around, up and down the aisles, picked stuff up, put it down, looked around some more. No employees. He had to go find one. Total time = 5 minutes 22 seconds.
If we had wanted to steal that store blind, all I and the other black guy would have to do was walk around the store and make noise, with the Filipno as a backup diversion, while the white guy took everything that wasn't nailed down.

Now I realize the plural of anecdote is not data. but if you ask any of the black people, especially black males that frequent FARK, you will get similar stories. There's a difference between "dangerous a ...


I don't disbelieve it at all and it's depressing. But I am sort of curious to explore both halves of the equation. If the numbers were exactly reversed, what would your feeling about the results have been? "There's no bias," "they're more suspicious of white people," or "they're more eager to wait on white people?"

There's plenty of racial bias in the country; not going to deny that for one second. I just can't accept that Infernalist's White Man's Burdenesque "someone has to help them!" type sentiment is the way to do something about it. I feel like the next generation or two is going to mix this old crap up; there's something to be said for growing up constantly interacting with a much more diverse group than you would have growing up otherwise. Yeah sure, the Internet's a farking racist place, but it's brand of hard-to-silence communication... I've got some hope for the future. That's sort of why all racially targeted scholarships rub me the wrong way, it feels like the biases of the old guard being pushed onto kids who had no say in any of it. Admittedly, I've been lucky enough to not really have to deal with issues like that personally, but I can't really speak from any perspective besides my own.
2013-05-15 10:30:43 PM  
1 votes:

Bumblefark: As for the second part...wow, really? You honestly believe being white is a handicap. Sorry...I should probably have some sort of witty rejoined for that, but I don't.


i sure as hell do, i've watched more jobs and fellowships and what not that i wanted handed to little asian chicks than i can count on two hands. i got a shiatload of real tight education and it's basically worthless since white 'isn't cool' right now. crap, man, even some of the hiring managers were pissed they had to choose the 'other' candidate and sent me half-explanations outta their hotmail/gmail accounts saying that. now i'm still pro diversity and prolly wouldn't levy the same discrimination now, against, minorities if i was a hiring manager at this point, but a few more punches in the nose and i might very well make a directly racist decision in a business setting and that's not right, man, it's come to that point, you know? - - i really wish i was trolling with this one.

grr.

still pro-ethnic diversity. still pro-gay.
2013-05-15 08:08:10 PM  
1 votes:

Mr.Man: When I see black CEO's running the world i'll get upset. This is a non story.


It used to be "president" and "free world".

Time are-a-changin.
2013-05-15 07:52:40 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others.


At least you admit it.  We're not gonna get any further on this, I know.
2013-05-15 07:36:41 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: Mattyb710: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but your post is forcing me to reply.

Are you actually making that argument that because a certain group of people have been discriminated against in the past that it is acceptable for them to discriminate against others now?

YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise.  Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"   The answer, of course, is yes.  Justice requires it.   An important part of equal treatment under the law  is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated.   You don't get to ...


Bad logic.  In one case a specific person committed a crime, will be convicted in a court, and sentenced for "fark you forever, asshole" prison. In the other case, you are automatically punishing an entire group of people because of something their ancestors may or may not have done.
2013-05-15 07:08:03 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


Oh? Here's a challenge: Find a scholarship for caucasions only that pays more than half their tuition as long as their GPA stays above 2.8. No other real restrictions.
2013-05-15 06:59:21 PM  
1 votes:

Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?


That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.
2013-05-15 06:54:42 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Until the guy behind catches up?  Yeah, that 'is' fair.


The metaphor is simplistic. How do you measure "catching up?"

Infernalist: If you're angry, blame our older generations for being retarded.


I do. You, however, seem much happier to blame, and punish, a 17-year-old college applicant who had nothing to do with the problem. Not to mention happily handicapping our country's development and competitiveness against the rest of the world by denying opportunities to more qualified applicants because it "feels good" and it's "doing something."
2013-05-15 06:53:41 PM  
1 votes:

keepitcherry: Reading through this thread is hilarious. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THOSE POOR OPPRESSED WHITE AMERICAN MALES!?


The poorest, least healthy people in the country, at the time of the WWI draft, were poor Appalachian whites.
2013-05-15 06:52:55 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: So, find me a solution that 'works'.


How is your favored solution working? As far as I can tell it's not.

Meanwhile; how long did we try desegregation and equal rights before we jumped back into favoring institutional racism again? Maybe a year?
2013-05-15 06:36:57 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.


That's a stupid metaphor and LBJ was a douchebag of epic proportions.

There is no contest, there is no "half-way point", and there is no undoing the past. The situation can't be forced into fairness at this point.
2013-05-15 06:35:30 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: JesseL: Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.

FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?

I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.


Much better to then shackle someone else's legs and call it "fair."
2013-05-15 06:31:57 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.


Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!
2013-05-15 06:30:18 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: We spent 100 years after the Civil War 'hoping' that the examples set by the abolitionists and men like Abraham Lincoln would convince the racists to...lighten up.

That didn't work out. Active effort is what caused the Civil Rights movement to succeed, by meeting that institutional racism head-on. Not by having some white people just 'treat everyone the same'. By insisting and 'demanding' that even racists had to treat people equally.

That process 'race blindness' will NEVER work as long as there are active racists who simply refuse to abandon their race-based views and their actions to discriminate because of those views. And we can't let their actions be the only actions influencing that struggle.


I've bolded the important part of your post. I've also italicized the key part of that part. You're right, it wasn't just by having white people treat everyone the same, it was by the civil rights movement treating the racist white people as equals and giving them no more authority than they would anyone else. It's not a matter of 'making' other people treat you as a equal, it's a matter treating them as if they're not even in a position to make such a choice.

Planck was talking about science, but the sentiment works just as well for social issues, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

If you make it X vs. Y, you're making it worse for everyone and keeping racism around for longer. If you go, "people who judge based on race are backwards arseholes," society irons itself out in a few generations. Nope, but we're Americans - we figure if one side just yells juuuust louder enough than the other side their opinion will become the cultural conscience tomorrow. Disdain for racists is a much more powerful tool in the long run than, "X gets a bonus because history." I mean, unless your goal is to alienate people and maintain the status quo of racial tension. if that's what you're out for, good job.

If you want to level the playing field, strip the names, race, gender off the scholarships and and do it based on economic need. If a black kid has been at a disadvantage all his life, his economic standing would reflect that, would it not? By taking that approach you catch anyone who was a victim of a hard life coming from systematic discrimination AND those who were the victim of a hard life steaming from pretty much every other cause. Given two identical GPAs, you cannot go, "well the white kid must have worked less for it," but the kids who's household income is $8k a year? I don't care what color that kid is, they did a hell of a job graduating.

/rant
2013-05-15 06:25:45 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.


FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?
2013-05-15 06:14:43 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Oh, the 'solutions' to that discrimination and racism already exist. They have had these solutions for years, the only problem is, people find a way to get around them, bypass them, ignore them.

Don't like black people? Refuse to hire them because they lack enough experience. Or they're overqualified. Or the position's already filled.

Don't want certain races in your apartments? Tell them that they don't make enough to qualify. Or their references didn't check out.

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore. It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others. I'm pretty sure that most minorities don't 'like' having to rely on Affirmative Action and would much rather make their way in the world on their own merits, but too many people exist in this country that would simply ignore those merits and reward other less deserving men because of irrational hatred based on race.

And as long as those racists exist, then I see the need for that balancing hand to try and minimize their impact.


And you still don't see that racism begets more racism?

If existing racists have to keep quiet and operate subtly that's bad, but at least they're not spreading their ideas and if they try they can be subject to shame and ridicule. Eventually there will be very few of them left.

If institutional racism continues to exist, it's a constant reminder that people can be treated differently based on their skin color. That guarantees that it will continue to feed entitlement, resentment, and the notion that our skin makes us different.
2013-05-15 05:56:04 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.

What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.

I'm pretending like the problem doesn't exist?  That's what whitewashing means, after all.

I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.

But, whatever, this is fark.


The way in which you are advocating we "actively try and negate its impact" simply gives the racists more ammunition. If we actually treated every single person the same, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or anything else, eventually more and more people would think the same way.

There will always be racist douchebags in the world. We can't fight them by using a form of racism ourselves. That's plain idiotic.
2013-05-15 05:55:40 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: I'm a big ol' white boy, and I've lived a good portion of my life in the south and in 'every' job that I've had an opportunity to witness the hiring process behind the scenes, it's always been a case of the hiring person's prejudices.

One of them wouldn't hire black people. At all. And joked about it to me, cause..well, I'm white, and I guess she thought it was 'safe' to laugh about it with me.

A few of them wouldn't hire Hispanics. Same deal.

One of them wouldn't hire someone he 'thought' was a lesbian. Don't know if she was or not, but that was his motivation.

It always came down to the interview process.

That ingrained racism still exists, boys and girls. And no one can say otherwise, no matter what color the President is.


I hope you told them all what shiatbags they are.

That would do a whole lot more than any continuing institutionalized racism.
2013-05-15 05:53:01 PM  
1 votes:

lennavan: tlars699: ......... When the inner city public schools get the same funding/available resources that suburban public schools do, you might have a point.

...........  If there were no white kids at inner city public schools, you would have a point.

I'm okay with increasing funding to inner city schools.  Hell, I'm even okay with changing standards for kids who come from inner city schools.  But why are you excluding the white kids who grew up in poverty and went to inner city schools?

When you can answer that, you might have a point.


There are a lot of majority-white areas that are steeped in poverty too. I would know, I grew up in one. And because of it, I am a little farking tired of being told "how good I have had it" by other white people who were born with a silver spoon stuck in their ass. Not all of us have mommy and daddy taking care of our every need.
2013-05-15 05:48:58 PM  
1 votes:

jigger: Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?

Do you really think people should be treated equally?

And "you" was the generic "you," the same way you used "you."


Yes, I do. I think giving someone a "helping hand" just because they were born black, or asian, or white, is no better than declining to give a helping hand to everyone who isn't black, or asian, or white. It's just another form of discrimination

.

Infernalist: People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others. And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.


All races have the same rights under the law. In fact, we have laws in place to specifically punish those who would discriminate based on race. Except when it comes to scholarships it seems everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate based on race.
2013-05-15 05:48:27 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically. But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.


Only an idiot with the brain of a dead flash light battery would say this. If being born white "automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages", then the white supremacist are right and you should take your white people hating, disingenuous nincompoopery and STFU.
2013-05-15 05:47:37 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.


What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.
2013-05-15 05:41:29 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: ......... When the inner city public schools get the same funding/available resources that suburban public schools do, you might have a point.


...........  If there were no white kids at inner city public schools, you would have a point.

I'm okay with increasing funding to inner city schools.  Hell, I'm even okay with changing standards for kids who come from inner city schools.  But why are you excluding the white kids who grew up in poverty and went to inner city schools?

When you can answer that, you might have a point.
2013-05-15 05:38:36 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Because society and the bureaucracy is full of people who routinely treat people differently because of race.


Can you really fix that by forcing society and bureaucracy to treat people differently because of race?
2013-05-15 05:26:28 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?


I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.
2013-05-15 05:25:39 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: No, you misunderstand me.  The social whole is 'The Man'.  That's the consumerist based capitalist culture where what you 'have' is more important than what you are or who you are.  That's the 'culture' that most White American clings to.  There are a few from other minority races who buy into that culture, but nothing to the degree that white America does.


Again, I've got to know what world you're living in. Most Americans are consumers and live in a consumerist based culture no matter what color they are.
2013-05-15 05:13:13 PM  
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted. These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you

...


Wait, because I'm against using race in decisions, I'm a mouth-breather?

Wow.  You know, I had a dream.  It is deeply rooted in the American Dream.  I had a dream that one day we will live in a nation where my children will be judged by the color of their skin, not by the content of their character.  Turns out, if they apply for these scholarships, they can realize that dream!
2013-05-15 05:09:05 PM  
1 votes:

The Third Man: endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.

True, but he had a better mustache, so that's got to count for something.  And I suppose he wasn't actively trying to kill them all, just wasn't particularly upset if they died in horrible ways.

/But you wonder:  how would a Hitler Scholarship be received?
//Also:  Rhodes is one of the few people you can compare to Hitler without Godwining the thread


You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. I don't like to Godwin, but I felt it was justified in this case. Thank you for your support.
2013-05-15 05:01:49 PM  
1 votes:

I Browse: jigger:

Oops.

By asking others to stop whining, I'm actually whining myself. Got it.


No, you were whining about other people whining.
2013-05-15 05:01:14 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.


What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?
2013-05-15 04:54:32 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"


Actually it couldn't be re-phrased that way, since the white kids being discriminated against didn't do anything to somehow deserve "justice" being taken out on them. Nice relevance fallacy, though - you even managed to sprinkle in some appeal to emotion. I'll know to look for dishonesty from you in the future.
2013-05-15 04:51:21 PM  
1 votes:

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?


That, Detective, is the right question.
2013-05-15 04:47:00 PM  
1 votes:

Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.


The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.
2013-05-15 04:44:45 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?


You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too
2013-05-15 04:33:57 PM  
1 votes:
Complaining about political correctness = the white man's victim card.
2013-05-15 04:29:59 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.


No one disagrees with that.  What we disagree is how long those advantages ought to last.  When your family goes back multiple generations more than the families that you're currently demanding the advantage from, the newer arrivals aren't generally eager to continue paying for the crimes of people who just happened to share their skin tones, especially if you're descended from one of the many groups that were treated as bad or worse.

//Mix of slavic and Irish, personally, and only four generations from immigrants
///Father paid his way through college and medical school shoveling coal in an iron forge and with my mom's job as a grocery clerk
2013-05-15 04:22:10 PM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: To be fair, whites are a minority in Colombia.

Wrong.  Those space shuttles were filled with white people.


Well yeah, but they're black now...
2013-05-15 04:15:35 PM  
1 votes:

SirEattonHogg: Yeah, America is so unequal to white folks what with all those minority companies and executives who refuse to hire white people and those restricted social clubs and the white seating in the back of the bus.


So, you've identified certain groups who are not allowed to advocate for equality or call out injustice when they see it, because of the color of their skin. That says a lot about you.
2013-05-15 04:15:25 PM  
1 votes:
Joe Blowme:

[www.inquisitr.com image 500x375]

I like your style. Accuse me of racism, and when I ask you to justify that accusation, hit me with a Welcome to Fark meme.

sharecovers.com
2013-05-15 04:11:29 PM  
1 votes:
BigNumber12:


As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.

How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?
2013-05-15 04:10:58 PM  
1 votes:
ITT: P.C. Nazis defending racism when it's against whites?
2013-05-15 04:10:57 PM  
1 votes:
F it.  If they are allowed to have "minority" scholarships, they should be allowed to have a "whites only" one.  May I remind you that this is a free country, and since Columbia is a private institution, they should be to do whatever they want.

However, the most most logical act would not give aide to people because of the color of their skin, gender, religious beliefs nor sexual orientation, it should be given to a person with the best vision for a better tomorrow and actually deserve the grant or scholarship.
2013-05-15 04:07:25 PM  
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


Since white folks are a minority in Hawaii (24.7%), you wouldn't have trouble with that state having white-only scholarships, I assume?

Besides, given the rate at which the average American is likely to be multi-racial, anything race-based is pretty ridiculous. Or do you think the scholarships should do a priority queue based on how not-white you are? The girl who's 7/8ths white gets priority over the girl who's half white? Going to go all out with DNA tests or should they just send in a photo for you to judge?
2013-05-15 04:05:56 PM  
1 votes:

rewind2846: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.


Contrary to popular belief, assholes come in all colors
2013-05-15 04:05:06 PM  
1 votes:

utah dude: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.


I read an editorial on SFgate one time that said almost exactly that. Written by a youngish white guy. I wish I'd bookmarked it. Really sad to see people who've been brainwashed to hate and advocate so fervently against themselves and anyone who looks like them. I don't know of anything like it anywhere else in the world.
2013-05-15 04:01:28 PM  
1 votes:

Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.


"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.
2013-05-15 03:56:18 PM  
1 votes:

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.



As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.
2013-05-15 03:56:05 PM  
1 votes:

MindStalker: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

Ugh. In general new immigrant blacks don't need help, the problem is poverty, and the biggest determination of poverty in this culture is race, though poor comes in all stripes, more and more aid is being shifted to income based rather than race. That said, the reasons for the rampant black poverty has a lot to do with intentionally policies from civil war till the 1980s on.


Bullshiat. It has everything to do with culture and how you are raised as a child. Just because you are poor does not give you a free pass to be a degenerate. It is not everyone else's fault that you are impoverished. Rampant "black poverty" has more to do with the fact they are a part of a culture where working and education are not respected, and the only thing to be respected is money and power. How you obtain those two things does not matter, it is all about the status. This is the polar opposite of the Asian culture which by and large respects work and education. Then you have the Hispanic culture which respects working, but not so much education. Call me a racist for stereotyping and generalizing, I don't care. THAT is the problem, not poverty. I will say that poverty provides additional challenges, but then so does coming from a background of wealth. For the most part, the kids that were born with a silver spoon in their mouths didn't turn out so well...
2013-05-15 03:55:35 PM  
1 votes:

lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?


I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU  and where you start out in life?
2013-05-15 03:53:17 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: Dear people with your panties in a bunch,

WHITE is not an ethnicity. There ARE scholarships for ethnicites that have white people:

Here is an example of one of Irish Americans:
http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/

So shut up.


Two scholarships (now one, since Columbia is trying to give this one the axe) =/= the plethora of minority scholarships available to non-white students

Also, if "white" is not an ethnicity, then how is "black" an ethnicity?
2013-05-15 03:48:03 PM  
1 votes:
I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.
2013-05-15 03:47:37 PM  
1 votes:

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


But it's OK when black people whine about things, right? RIGHT???
2013-05-15 03:46:05 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but your post is forcing me to reply.

Are you actually making that argument that because a certain group of people have been discriminated against in the past that it is acceptable for them to discriminate against others now?
2013-05-15 03:44:12 PM  
1 votes:

The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.


What a black Rhodes scholar might look like.
www.history.com
2013-05-15 03:41:24 PM  
1 votes:

Silly_Sot: Columbia doesn't have any "blacks only" scholarships, right? They do?


No.  Columbia does not administer any "blacks only" scholarships.  That's the issue here: Columbia cannot legally administer a scholarship that restricts its awards based on race.

If an outside organization wants to administer such scholarships, that's up to them; they can restrict the grants to blacks or whites or women or anyone they want to.  And, they can also restrict the award to Columbia students.  But, COLUMBIA CANNOT DO SO ITSELF.
2013-05-15 03:40:05 PM  
1 votes:
Dear people with your panties in a bunch,

WHITE is not an ethnicity. There ARE scholarships for ethnicites that have white people:

Here is an example of one of Irish Americans:
http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/

So shut up.
2013-05-15 03:34:35 PM  
1 votes:
So, that means they're going to ban all the "blacks only" scholarships, all the "hispanics only" scholarships, etc., right? What? Hypocrisy is moral so long as it's LEFTIST hypocrisy? Never mind, then.
2013-05-15 03:30:10 PM  
1 votes:
xmasbaby:

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

Yes he is.,
2013-05-15 03:29:21 PM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


In the yogurt. No one will see it coming.
2013-05-15 03:28:02 PM  
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.


Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?
2013-05-15 03:25:54 PM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: give me doughnuts: Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.

You should see China.  That place is not even 1% Caucasian.  It's full of blacks.



Interestingly, Mrs. jshine is Chinese; my family is originally from Northern Europe (mostly German, some English & Polish), but if we hold our arms side-by-side and simply look at skin tone, she's slightly whiter than I am.
2013-05-15 03:24:55 PM  
1 votes:

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better

I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping


Like how it has been studied that despite identical resumes, resumes with black-sounding names get called back much less than white sounding names?

Oh look, you are trying to imply that I am the racist here by saying I stereotype. Reminds me of all the Republicans that have called the Democrats as the "true racist" in this country. Ain't going to work on me, pal.
2013-05-15 03:21:48 PM  
1 votes:

HailRobonia: exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

What about veterinary theology?


I don't believe in Dog
2013-05-15 03:21:09 PM  
1 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Or poop on it, or pee.

Do all three and it's called multimedia and it gets shown on world tour.


I wish you were wrong.
2013-05-15 03:17:16 PM  
1 votes:
As someone who holds degrees from both Iowa and Columbia, I'm getting a kick out of...
2013-05-15 03:16:04 PM  
1 votes:

dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?


a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.
2013-05-15 03:13:53 PM  
1 votes:
Subby, linking to autoplaying videos is a bad idea too.
2013-05-15 03:13:41 PM  
1 votes:

Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".


Some animals are more equal than others. Doubleplusgood of you to realize that.
2013-05-15 03:13:06 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?


By then they will have agreed they are racist
2013-05-15 03:10:52 PM  
1 votes:

Girl Pants: Many scholarships are supported by a private backer or two, often the estate of some rich person. If that person/group/estate want to make a fund to help students of some kind (be they majority or minority), I feel they should be allowed.

While I understand that statistically many groups are disadvantaged over others, and in the service of trying to "equalizing" everyone it is "better" to target disadvantaged persons, that does not mean you should not be allowed to help out people of a traditionally/statistically advantaged group.


All the same, I think scholarships should be based on need and merit only, myself.

/white male who received scholarships due to coming from poor family and having good grades
//just because some white men are the richest and most powerful does not mean all whites and males are rich and powerful.


Lucky you, I paid my way in full even after making the dean's list twice. If I were a little less white... it would of been free.
2013-05-15 03:09:14 PM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.


Knifing?
2013-05-15 03:09:10 PM  
1 votes:
couldn't help but notice this along the bottom of tfa:

s1.ibtimes.com

how has that not shown up on Fark already? or did I just miss it?
2013-05-15 03:08:11 PM  
1 votes:

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


I was done school about 10 years ago.  But on principle I find it sad that it's perfectly ok for a minority group to have a targeted scholarship while a Caucasian group can't have the same.
2013-05-15 03:06:46 PM  
1 votes:
Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?
2013-05-15 03:06:31 PM  
1 votes:
But the UNCF is still ok discrimination right?
2013-05-15 03:06:12 PM  
1 votes:

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


Its possible that this scholorship is an endowment that is controlled by the university, so the university is responsible for deciding recipients. Where these other scholorships are all independantly run and the university is not a deciding body, they just accept the money.
2013-05-15 03:02:56 PM  
1 votes:

Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.


Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.
2013-05-15 03:02:49 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


I'd totally buy that argument except for all of the other race-specific programs.
2013-05-15 03:02:29 PM  
1 votes:

Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.


Not sexism when its against men either.

white guys. Its ok to stick it to them.
2013-05-15 03:02:00 PM  
1 votes:

jfivealive: cfroelic: In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?

Black people are so mad!  But then again, you would be too if your pants never fit!


I'd guess a lot of Farkers have a problem getting their pants to fit...
2013-05-15 03:00:29 PM  
1 votes:

Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.


Yet they still have Afirmative action.... tripple fail?
2013-05-15 03:00:27 PM  
1 votes:
This is great news. Of course we should not offer a scholarship based on color. Very racist to give a scholarship based on color.
2013-05-15 02:59:50 PM  
1 votes:
Another example of my continued persecution at the hands of blacks.  Who will emancipate me?
2013-05-15 02:59:19 PM  
1 votes:

special20: I would be ticked off if somebody messed with my bequeathed scholarship fund, and how I dictated it be doled out. If for instance I am offering a scholarship to only  a select group of people with larger than normal genitalia, I would bloody well expect every applicant to show their undercarriage to the people I trusted with that fund. Those who do not meet the specific criteria, are just shiat out of luck and will have to beg for money elsewhere.

Also, when you find a better school, the scholarship finding gets done for you, and nobody splits hairs over the qualifications - because there are so damn many.


I'm pretty sure that the woman in question is dead.  This isn't the first time this has come up; what to you do when a scholarship/endowment's purpose is 100 years out of date?  How much leeway can an university have in re-purposing the money, or does it become an unexpected windfall for relatives 100 years down the line?
2013-05-15 02:58:52 PM  
1 votes:

titwrench: UrukHaiGuyz: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Well in that case call me Picasso.


Really? You didn't go with Jacksoff Pollack?


Well my first thought was de Pooning, but I thought I'd try for the wider audience.

/everyone's a critic
//but I like your style
2013-05-15 02:57:21 PM  
1 votes:
Why didn't they play the race card? Oh right, they're white.
2013-05-15 02:54:21 PM  
1 votes:
I would be ticked off if somebody messed with my bequeathed scholarship fund, and how I dictated it be doled out. If for instance I am offering a scholarship to only  a select group of people with larger than normal genitalia, I would bloody well expect every applicant to show their undercarriage to the people I trusted with that fund. Those who do not meet the specific criteria, are just shiat out of luck and will have to beg for money elsewhere.

Also, when you find a better school, the scholarship finding gets done for you, and nobody splits hairs over the qualifications - because there are so damn many.
2013-05-15 02:46:21 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder how it would have played out if a black student applied for a "whites only" scholarship (or vice versa)? AFAIK, there's not much legal or scientific basis for defining race, so would they just let it go? Would some bureaucrat get the job of saying "I can't prove anything about your race, but I am reasonably confident that you are disqualified by your melanin levels"?
2013-05-15 02:01:56 PM  
1 votes:

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


Iowa probably isn't losing lawyers and doctors like they are engineers.

Full disclosure: I'm from Iowa and an engineer. No, I don't live there anymore.
2013-05-15 12:47:26 PM  
1 votes:
potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.
 
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