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(International Business Times)   Columbia University has finally decided that its "whites-only" scholarship is a bad idea   (ibtimes.com) divider line 505
    More: Obvious, Columbia University, scholarships, white people, Trust  
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10385 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 2:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 04:44:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparen ...


Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?
 
2013-05-15 04:44:45 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?


You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too
 
2013-05-15 04:45:05 PM  

I want your skull: Great. Now white people are going to have to start pretending they're black so they can get a scholarship.
[i.imgur.com image 720x453]


Damn you!!!!
 
2013-05-15 04:46:29 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


In other words, baristas.

/Because all of the engineers are Asian! LOL
 
2013-05-15 04:46:58 PM  
images.pushsquare.com

The school in question

/what's wrong with being sexy?

 
2013-05-15 04:47:00 PM  

Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.


The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.
 
2013-05-15 04:47:04 PM  
teenage mutant ninja rapist:

Reverse discrimination? Nope I wouldnt call it that.
just plain old hypocrisy. Its 2013 nobody going to college had to sit at the back of the bus


Really? I graduated from college in 2012. I'm 51, and was born in the deep south, north carolina to be exact, in 1962. I'm sure there are more like me, and some older as well. "Nobody" is a pretty definitive word... I suggest you do some research first.

Also, I'm sure the college students you speak of (those just below drinking age in your stereotype) have parents and grandparent who can tell them first hand what it was like, as my father (in his 70's) has told me. Better than a history book, and much more complex, I assure you.
 
2013-05-15 04:47:57 PM  

rewind2846: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.


Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)
 
2013-05-15 04:50:07 PM  

I Browse: How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?


Sounds good.

I Browse: I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


Oops.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:02 PM  

Magorn: Columbia should just hand out the scholarship to whomever they want and if anyone objects simply cite Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948)  which basically said that there was nothing that stopped private parties from MAKING racially restrictive covenants on real estate (a clause in a home sale agreement stipulating that the house couldn't be re-sold to a non-white person), but for the courts to ENFORCE them would require the court to violate the 14th amendment and so they would not even hear lawsuits arising from violations of those clauses


That's what I thought. Racist provisions in contracts are automatically null and void, even between private parties with no government sponsorship. Racist contractual terms can be ignored, because if some asshat wants to sue to enforce them they have nowhere to go. Just pretend it doesn't say anything about whites-only.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:21 PM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?


That, Detective, is the right question.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:25 PM  

give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?


One of my direct ancestors from scotland was shipped over here as an indentured servant in the colonial period. He had to fight for the Brits because his master was a loyalist. The story goes that he was able to escape to the colonial side when the war turned and the brit sympathizers were run out of town.

/indentured servitude was pretty much slavery for white people.
/csb
 
2013-05-15 04:51:35 PM  

jigger: I Browse: How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?

Sounds good.

I Browse: I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.

Oops.


Whineception.

/Bwooooong
 
2013-05-15 04:52:01 PM  

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


Because white people never need help paying for college. And why should they? Everybody knows that tuition is cheap as hell these days. And it isn't "reverse-racism." It is just racism.
 
2013-05-15 04:52:04 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I want your skull: Great. Now white people are going to have to start pretending they're black so they can get a scholarship.
[i.imgur.com image 720x453]

Damn you!!!!


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-15 04:53:08 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too


No, you're grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.
 
2013-05-15 04:53:30 PM  

hasty ambush: tlars699: Yes. Change them to "Single Parent"- talk about the least support system on any effing campus. Non Trad support, MY ASS.

That single parent thing is, with a few exception, largely preventable on an individual level and even if it is not there is no reason for a special support system for them.  They are a big enough pain in the ass in the military do we need to cater to them in the private sector to.


1. College is the private sector?
2. Women based groups were all super supportive of everyone, except pregnant chicks/single fathers trying to better themselves.
3. They are not largely preventable with abusive farkwads- notsoCSB
4. Oh noes! They're everywhere! Do you have to raise a kid by yourself? No? Do you have to help babysit the kid? No? Then eat a bowl of badger knuckles.
 
2013-05-15 04:53:57 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too

No, you're not grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


FTFM.  stupid internet, not reading my mind properly.
 
2013-05-15 04:54:32 PM  

Magorn: Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"


Actually it couldn't be re-phrased that way, since the white kids being discriminated against didn't do anything to somehow deserve "justice" being taken out on them. Nice relevance fallacy, though - you even managed to sprinkle in some appeal to emotion. I'll know to look for dishonesty from you in the future.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:38 PM  

MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.


Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:42 PM  

Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?
 
2013-05-15 04:57:00 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.

The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.


You make some very good points.  I'd argue that racial preferences in such things as college admissions (to the extent they exist) magnify the negative impact on race relations because of the number of people who percieve that they, personally, have been disadvantaged via racial preference.  What I mean by that is granting one member of a select group a preference in admissions may displace one non-member who otherwise would otherwise have been admitted if it weren't based on preference but on merit alone.  But there are 1,000 non-members who might think "hey, if it weren't for affirmative action, I would have gotten in".  In other words, 999 white people think they got screwed over by a policy preferential to blacks, when they wouldn't have gotten in anyway.
 
2013-05-15 04:59:32 PM  
jigger:

Oops.

By asking others to stop whining, I'm actually whining myself. Got it.
 
2013-05-15 05:00:53 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?


Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.
 
2013-05-15 05:01:14 PM  

Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.


What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?
 
2013-05-15 05:01:48 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: the money is in the banana stand: Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.

The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.

You make some very good points.  I'd argue that racial preferences in such things as college admissions (to the extent they exist) magnify the negative impact on race relations because of the number of people who percieve that they, personally, have been disadvantaged via racial preference.  What I mean by that is granting one member of a select group a preference in admissions may displace one non-member who otherwise would otherwise have been admitted if it weren't based on pre ...


I like your males assuming it's because of a black dude, rather than a white chick. lol
 
2013-05-15 05:01:49 PM  

I Browse: jigger:

Oops.

By asking others to stop whining, I'm actually whining myself. Got it.


No, you were whining about other people whining.
 
2013-05-15 05:01:55 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU  and where you start out in life?


How about great great great grandparents(might be even one more generation)? So after 7 generations you still can't do something for yourself? Damn.
 
2013-05-15 05:02:31 PM  

badaboom: Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.

So you failed history? Tell us, why should someone whose family was not in America have to "pay" for the sins of those in the past?


No one is asking you to "pay", what they are asking you to do is realize that you have those advantages and quitcherb*chin. As a white male (if that is what you are) you are still at the top of the socioeconomic ladder just about everywhere. Lowest unemployment rates, lowest underemployment rates, highest incomes, etc etc etc. The whining I get from white males is usually due to the fact that nowadays they can't have 100% of everything, and have to settle for 99% instead.

Boo-farking-hoo. Welcome to the new world.
 
2013-05-15 05:02:38 PM  
I see this is the thread where losers who made poor life decisions blame PC for keeping them down. Cool
 
2013-05-15 05:03:49 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?

Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.


I don't know what world you're living in where white people "for the most part" say fark you to differently colored people. Or where all white people (and no people of no other color) are "The Man".
 
2013-05-15 05:04:26 PM  

Magorn: YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise. Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?" The answer, of course, is yes. Justice requires it. An important part of equal treatment under the law is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated. You don't get to go "yeah that was wrong, my bad, I'll just stop doing that. So we're cool now, right?" You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.


First off, you are comparing apples to elephants. A more accurate way to compare your two scenarios is to punish Ariel Castro's (imaginary) grandchildren because of a crime he a committed.

Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?
 
2013-05-15 05:04:43 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

OMG, who did that to them?



James II, Charles I,  and Oliver Cromwell.
 
2013-05-15 05:06:58 PM  

Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?


Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?
 
2013-05-15 05:07:33 PM  

Infernalist: rewind2846: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

To some people, a world where the non-caucasian population is larger than the caucasian population is a world where white people are a minority.


I already referenced that... it will be a "long time", but, not that long.... Latinos are expected to be the majority in the U.S. sometime by the 2040's.     As I asked... are any scholarships specifically for Latinos a "bad" or illegal thing then at that point?
 
2013-05-15 05:09:05 PM  

The Third Man: endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.

True, but he had a better mustache, so that's got to count for something.  And I suppose he wasn't actively trying to kill them all, just wasn't particularly upset if they died in horrible ways.

/But you wonder:  how would a Hitler Scholarship be received?
//Also:  Rhodes is one of the few people you can compare to Hitler without Godwining the thread


You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. I don't like to Godwin, but I felt it was justified in this case. Thank you for your support.
 
2013-05-15 05:09:29 PM  

give me doughnuts: HotWingConspiracy: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

OMG, who did that to them?


James II, Charles I,  and Oliver Cromwell.



Forgot link.
 
2013-05-15 05:10:32 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.

What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?


Well, let's compare the two, shall we?

1) American born Tyrone.  He was born into a poverty stricken neighborhood in south central LA.  Rundown school, no jobs once he hits 15 or so, no real chance of getting to college since his grades suck because the teachers are more concerned with surviving the day than inspiring him to learn.  To him, America sucks.  He's done with school, no college, no job, so his choices are to live at home with mom on welfare, or go deal drugs or something illegal to make enough money to be on his own.  He's a willing participant in an urban culture that disdains education, hard work and playing things straight.  His most likely outcome will be prison or death or prison and then death.

2) Nigerian born Jamal.  He was born into a poverty stricken village in Niger.  No chance at college for anyone, no chance for anything really, but unlike most of his companions, he has the drive to succeed.  Enough to leave his country of birth and travel across the world to a nation completely and utterly alien to his own.  Since he's got the grades to get into college, he gets the grants he needs, thanks to black-only scholarships.  His mere presence in America is a testament of what he'll do to succeed.

You see, most Nigerians are more like Tyrone.  They don't try hard enough to survive.  But, Jamal, simply by GETTING HERE, has proven that he has more internal fortitude than most urban kids.

Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

But then, if all of us had to start off in a different country and had to immigrate to America in order to partake in its bounties, I suspect we'd be considerably below our 330 million population.
 
2013-05-15 05:13:13 PM  

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted. These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you

...


Wait, because I'm against using race in decisions, I'm a mouth-breather?

Wow.  You know, I had a dream.  It is deeply rooted in the American Dream.  I had a dream that one day we will live in a nation where my children will be judged by the color of their skin, not by the content of their character.  Turns out, if they apply for these scholarships, they can realize that dream!
 
2013-05-15 05:14:55 PM  
tlars699:
It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)


More than a century. And even when (if) that ever happens, we must still ask the question - "who will still hold the power, money and control?"
Numbers don't mean everything.

Besides, let's just assume this "catastrophic" event happens in the next 200 years or so... since hispanic populations are growing the quickest, let's assume they will be the first to outnumber whites (blacks 13%, asians 10%, non-hispanic whites 36%, hispanics 37%, others 5% in 2213 using numbers pulled out of my ass).
Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?
 
2013-05-15 05:16:38 PM  

rewind2846: Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?


tatsuma and bevets, mainly.
 
2013-05-15 05:17:29 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?

Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.

I don't know what world you're living in where white people "for the most part" say fark you to differently colored people. Or where all white people (and no people of no other color) are "The Man".


No, you misunderstand me.  The social whole is 'The Man'.  That's the consumerist based capitalist culture where what you 'have' is more important than what you are or who you are.  That's the 'culture' that most White American clings to.  There are a few from other minority races who buy into that culture, but nothing to the degree that white America does.

And yeah, historically, American culture has thumbed its nose at minority concerns and told them to go shove it.  Not in words, but in actions.

It's the way our society 'demands' illegal immigrant labor in order to sustain low cost for food, but actively punishes illegal immigrants when they catch them.

It's the way our society demands illegal drugs from foreign sources and then actively wages war on those same sources.

It's the way that we've systematically ignored black concerns and problems for nearly a hundred years after the Civil War until the Civil Rights movement succeeded.
 
2013-05-15 05:18:56 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.

What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?

Well, let's compare the two, shall we?

1) American born Tyrone.  He was born into a poverty stricken neighborhood in south central LA.  Rundown school, no jobs once he hits 15 or so, no real chance of getting to college since his grades suck because the teachers are more concerned with surviving the day than inspiring him to learn.  To him, America sucks.  He's done with school, no college, no job, so his choices are to live at home with mom on welfare, or go deal drugs or something illegal to make enough money to be on his own.  He's a willing participant in an urban culture that disdains education, hard work and playing things straight.  His most likely outcome will be prison or death or prison and then death.

2) Nigerian born Jamal.  He was born into a poverty stricken village in Niger.  No chance at college for anyone, no chance for anything really, but unlike most of his companions, he has the drive to succeed.  Enough t ...


My thought process to your post: "Why is it okay for black immigrants to count and get black only scholarships, since American Whiteys didn't keep down their ancestors and waaaaaaaaaaiit.... <.< yeah I'm done here.

We do give them hella aid for their countries, though- through both public and private means.
 
2013-05-15 05:20:28 PM  

Magorn: Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU and where you start out in life?


Great-grandparents my ass, you don't even need that long to get out of the institutionalized discrimination.

Is it really so impossible for you to understand, that if your grandparents immigrated here with absolutely nothing, worked their asses off and made their kids go to school, that in a single generation you could have access to anything and everything?

Do you know how many stories there are of people growing up with nothing, working hard and ultimately becoming successful?  Do you know who the current POTUS is?

How long are you gonna whine?  My great-grandma experienced racism, therefore I deserve special treatment?  How about no.  Work harder jack-ass.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:03 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too

No, you're grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


I can't find any published definition of 'majority' that matches what you're going with there. That word seems to universally mean >50% of the whole. It's entirely possible to have a whole that consists entirely of minorities.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:42 PM  

Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?


Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:46 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships.


The people who get worked up about reverse racism are entitled white folks with a persecution complex afraid that the darkies might ever benefit from the color of their skin. They're pretty much cool with the advantages that come to them by way of their own skin color (or at least deliberately unaware of them), because...that like totally doesn't count, since that's done in a mostly unspoken way. And besides, "OMG racism was solved YEARS ago! I don't/refuse to see it, therefore it doesn't exist! LALALALALALALALA...fingers in my ears!"
 
2013-05-15 05:25:38 PM  
I assume that Columbia will track down the heirs and give it back?
 
2013-05-15 05:25:39 PM  

Infernalist: No, you misunderstand me.  The social whole is 'The Man'.  That's the consumerist based capitalist culture where what you 'have' is more important than what you are or who you are.  That's the 'culture' that most White American clings to.  There are a few from other minority races who buy into that culture, but nothing to the degree that white America does.


Again, I've got to know what world you're living in. Most Americans are consumers and live in a consumerist based culture no matter what color they are.
 
2013-05-15 05:25:44 PM  

rewind2846: tlars699:
It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)

More than a century. And even when (if) that ever happens, we must still ask the question - "who will still hold the power, money and control?"
Numbers don't mean everything.

Besides, let's just assume this "catastrophic" event happens in the next 200 years or so... since hispanic populations are growing the quickest, let's assume they will be the first to outnumber whites (blacks 13%, asians 10%, non-hispanic whites 36%, hispanics 37%, others 5% in 2213 using numbers pulled out of my ass).
Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?


1. 'Catastrophic' is your word, not mine. Note my original question was intentionally neutral in both wording and tone.
2. I have previously posted that I can't wait until we all look Brazilian and race no longer matters, and that I would prefer need/merit based selection. So, afraid? Me? What?
3. Logistically, a significant number of the other Columbian scholarships are based on minority status in our country. What would they do to ensure the money goes to the intended folk who need the advantage? Change the wording back to race specifics? Disband the scholarships as they are doing now for the whitey one?
4. The largest share of money and power would be held by the 1%. Who tend to be greedy, and that's how they get there. Who cares what race they are?
 
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