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(International Business Times)   Columbia University has finally decided that its "whites-only" scholarship is a bad idea   (ibtimes.com) divider line 505
    More: Obvious, Columbia University, scholarships, white people, Trust  
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10342 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 2:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 12:40:36 PM  
Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?
 
2013-05-15 12:43:35 PM  
Heck, I would have gotten rid of it just based on the Iowa thing.
 
2013-05-15 12:47:26 PM  
potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.
 
2013-05-15 01:28:21 PM  
Both black people in Iowa are celebrating the end of this injustice.
 
2013-05-15 01:48:43 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


I say, let JPMorgan have the $800k, and apply the 45% gift tax to it.
 
2013-05-15 02:01:56 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


Iowa probably isn't losing lawyers and doctors like they are engineers.

Full disclosure: I'm from Iowa and an engineer. No, I don't live there anymore.
 
2013-05-15 02:03:36 PM  
Well, it is the "Foundation For The Rhythmically Impaired Scholars Program"...not exactly "whites-only"....but probably.
 
2013-05-15 02:07:04 PM  
In its current incarnation, the "whites-only" scholarship contains several prohibitive clauses. Only white men and women hailing from Iowa are eligible for the grant. In addition, potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery or theology, and must move back to Iowa for at least two years after graduating, The Daily News reports.

The funny thing is Iowa is one of the whitest states in the union. Making it an "Iowan only" scholarship pretty much already made it "whites-only."
 
2013-05-15 02:08:35 PM  

dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?


That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".
 
2013-05-15 02:21:45 PM  
Great.  Next you'll be telling me they're handing out math scholarships to chicks.
 
2013-05-15 02:31:35 PM  
Do they even have black people in Iowa?
 
2013-05-15 02:39:27 PM  
Wendy's Chili: "Do they even have black people in Iowa?"

www.bestcareanywhere.net
 
2013-05-15 02:41:40 PM  
Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.
 
2013-05-15 02:42:08 PM  

JerseyTim: Heck, I would have gotten rid of it just based on the Iowa thing.


In addition, potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery or theology, and must move back to Iowa for at least two years after graduating.

cf2s1.cbncdn.com
 
2013-05-15 02:42:32 PM  
Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?
 
2013-05-15 02:43:13 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?


A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.
 
2013-05-15 02:43:32 PM  
But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.
 
2013-05-15 02:44:18 PM  

Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".


Which is a stupid argument... Pendulums are supposed to swing both ways.  A minority group should have no right to complain about whitey getting his own scholarship if they get to have one for their particular group.
 
2013-05-15 02:44:33 PM  
There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?
 
2013-05-15 02:44:34 PM  
Was a man named Booker involved? I didn't know game marketing could extend so far.
 
2013-05-15 02:44:46 PM  

abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.


Do they? Do you know for sure that Columbia offers race-specific scholarships to black people, or do you just assume that they do?
 
2013-05-15 02:45:18 PM  
As a white man, I thank God for the Internet, without which I'd have no idea how unfair life is to me
 
2013-05-15 02:45:22 PM  

thurstonxhowell: abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.

Do they? Do you know for sure that Columbia offers race-specific scholarships to black people, or do you just assume that they do?


I see that's been covered. My bad.
 
2013-05-15 02:46:21 PM  
I wonder how it would have played out if a black student applied for a "whites only" scholarship (or vice versa)? AFAIK, there's not much legal or scientific basis for defining race, so would they just let it go? Would some bureaucrat get the job of saying "I can't prove anything about your race, but I am reasonably confident that you are disqualified by your melanin levels"?
 
2013-05-15 02:47:13 PM  
We need to stop Comstock when he was born...
 
2013-05-15 02:48:00 PM  
So when I was in college is was okay for me to be ineligible for certain scholarships because I'm not black, hispanic or native american?
 
2013-05-15 02:48:39 PM  
I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.
 
2013-05-15 02:49:11 PM  
Wonder if she has any descendants.  Have read about similar scholarships / endowments in the past.  When the universities try to change them, the descendants claim breach of contract and try to grab the money.
 
2013-05-15 02:50:43 PM  

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted. These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.


Isn't that interesting because, according to the TFA, Columbia is claiming in court that "Columbia University is now prohibited by law and University policy from discriminating on the basis of race." So, I guess Columbia has now judicially admitted that it violates the law, assuming it is handing out those scholarships that you listed.
 
2013-05-15 02:50:50 PM  
 
2013-05-15 02:50:52 PM  
What if they called it a "Historically White Scholarship", is that OK? Can they do that?
 
2013-05-15 02:51:01 PM  
In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?
 
2013-05-15 02:51:56 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


You say that like its a bad thing
 
2013-05-15 02:52:12 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


Well in that case call me Picasso.
 
2013-05-15 02:52:16 PM  
Many scholarships are supported by a private backer or two, often the estate of some rich person. If that person/group/estate want to make a fund to help students of some kind (be they majority or minority), I feel they should be allowed.

While I understand that statistically many groups are disadvantaged over others, and in the service of trying to "equalizing" everyone it is "better" to target disadvantaged persons, that does not mean you should not be allowed to help out people of a traditionally/statistically advantaged group.


All the same, I think scholarships should be based on need and merit only, myself.

/white male who received scholarships due to coming from poor family and having good grades
//just because some white men are the richest and most powerful does not mean all whites and males are rich and powerful.
 
2013-05-15 02:52:35 PM  

Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?


Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.
 
2013-05-15 02:53:51 PM  

cfroelic: In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?


Back in 1920, there was only one black man in Iowa.  Steve.

But Lydia C. Roberts didn't want to be rude and make an "Anyone but Steve" scholarship, so she had to go a little more vague/broad and go white's only.
 
2013-05-15 02:54:01 PM  

cfroelic: In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?


Black people are so mad!  But then again, you would be too if your pants never fit!
 
2013-05-15 02:54:10 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Well in that case call me Picasso.



Really? You didn't go with Jacksoff Pollack?
 
2013-05-15 02:54:21 PM  
I would be ticked off if somebody messed with my bequeathed scholarship fund, and how I dictated it be doled out. If for instance I am offering a scholarship to only  a select group of people with larger than normal genitalia, I would bloody well expect every applicant to show their undercarriage to the people I trusted with that fund. Those who do not meet the specific criteria, are just shiat out of luck and will have to beg for money elsewhere.

Also, when you find a better school, the scholarship finding gets done for you, and nobody splits hairs over the qualifications - because there are so damn many.
 
2013-05-15 02:54:34 PM  
The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.
 
2013-05-15 02:54:46 PM  
Columbia should just hand out the scholarship to whomever they want and if anyone objects simply cite Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948)  which basically said that there was nothing that stopped private parties from MAKING racially restrictive covenants on real estate (a clause in a home sale agreement stipulating that the house couldn't be re-sold to a non-white person), but for the courts to ENFORCE them would require the court to violate the 14th amendment and so they would not even hear lawsuits arising from violations of those clauses
 
2013-05-15 02:55:03 PM  
"Columbia University is now prohibited by law and University policy from discriminating on the basis of race."

Now that it's 2013, they mean.
Now that they've been caught.
 
2013-05-15 02:55:13 PM  
Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.
 
2013-05-15 02:55:14 PM  
When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports.

There may be something wrong with your country when a half-million dollar trust set up decades prior cannot put a student through school. Shameful.
 
2013-05-15 02:55:34 PM  

Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.


Only for assholes.
 
2013-05-15 02:55:56 PM  

Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.


That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.
 
2013-05-15 02:57:21 PM  
Why didn't they play the race card? Oh right, they're white.
 
2013-05-15 02:57:38 PM  

Bullseyed: The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.


No they were not, here they are
 
2013-05-15 02:58:52 PM  

titwrench: UrukHaiGuyz: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Well in that case call me Picasso.


Really? You didn't go with Jacksoff Pollack?


Well my first thought was de Pooning, but I thought I'd try for the wider audience.

/everyone's a critic
//but I like your style
 
2013-05-15 02:59:07 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Do they even have people in Idaho?
 
2013-05-15 02:59:19 PM  

special20: I would be ticked off if somebody messed with my bequeathed scholarship fund, and how I dictated it be doled out. If for instance I am offering a scholarship to only  a select group of people with larger than normal genitalia, I would bloody well expect every applicant to show their undercarriage to the people I trusted with that fund. Those who do not meet the specific criteria, are just shiat out of luck and will have to beg for money elsewhere.

Also, when you find a better school, the scholarship finding gets done for you, and nobody splits hairs over the qualifications - because there are so damn many.


I'm pretty sure that the woman in question is dead.  This isn't the first time this has come up; what to you do when a scholarship/endowment's purpose is 100 years out of date?  How much leeway can an university have in re-purposing the money, or does it become an unexpected windfall for relatives 100 years down the line?
 
2013-05-15 02:59:28 PM  

Joe Blowme: Bullseyed: The millions of various black only and mexican only scholarships were unavailable for comment.

No they were not, here they are


http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/20110902racescholarships.pdf
 
2013-05-15 02:59:50 PM  
Another example of my continued persecution at the hands of blacks.  Who will emancipate me?
 
2013-05-15 03:00:00 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.



Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.
 
2013-05-15 03:00:03 PM  

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?
 
2013-05-15 03:00:27 PM  
This is great news. Of course we should not offer a scholarship based on color. Very racist to give a scholarship based on color.
 
2013-05-15 03:00:29 PM  

Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.


Yet they still have Afirmative action.... tripple fail?
 
2013-05-15 03:00:57 PM  
I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.
 
2013-05-15 03:01:10 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?


Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.
 
2013-05-15 03:01:28 PM  

Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.


THIS.  We can't even talk about how the Jews are destroying America anymore.  Now, we have to "support Israel".

www.veteranstoday.com

Just look at this libbo kowtowing to the PC POLICE!
 
2013-05-15 03:02:00 PM  

jfivealive: cfroelic: In 1920, there were probably very few if any African Americans in Iowa.  The intent of the restriction to caucasians is perfectly clear:  They didn't want Indians to get any money.  Why does everyone assume it's there because of blacks?

Black people are so mad!  But then again, you would be too if your pants never fit!


I'd guess a lot of Farkers have a problem getting their pants to fit...
 
2013-05-15 03:02:26 PM  
America: where political correctness is a bigger problem than racial inequality.

/few people realize how many victims political correctness claims every year
 
2013-05-15 03:02:29 PM  

Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.


Not sexism when its against men either.

white guys. Its ok to stick it to them.
 
2013-05-15 03:02:34 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Well in that case call me Picasso.


Crooked member, eh?
 
2013-05-15 03:02:49 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


I'd totally buy that argument except for all of the other race-specific programs.
 
2013-05-15 03:02:56 PM  

Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.


Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.
 
2013-05-15 03:04:11 PM  
It's only racist when white people do it.
 
2013-05-15 03:04:15 PM  

What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.


But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.
 
2013-05-15 03:04:18 PM  

Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


...and by "deep South" do you mean Iowa or New York? -- because the scholarship in question is for Iowans going to a school in New York.

I'm not saying that there was no discrimination in the north, but bringing the South into the discussion is a complete red herring.
 
2013-05-15 03:04:57 PM  

Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?
 
2013-05-15 03:05:11 PM  

The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.


Hence Rhodesia, the African Whitey-ville country.
 
2013-05-15 03:06:00 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Not sexism when its against men either.

white guys. Its ok to stick it to them.


~3.5% of them anyway
 
2013-05-15 03:06:12 PM  

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


Its possible that this scholorship is an endowment that is controlled by the university, so the university is responsible for deciding recipients. Where these other scholorships are all independantly run and the university is not a deciding body, they just accept the money.
 
2013-05-15 03:06:29 PM  

Joe Blowme: Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.

Yet they still have AfFirmative aAction.... tripple triple fail?


Hmm, triple typing fail.... some sort of meta-commentary?
 
2013-05-15 03:06:31 PM  
But the UNCF is still ok discrimination right?
 
2013-05-15 03:06:46 PM  
Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?
 
2013-05-15 03:07:04 PM  

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.


So you failed history? Tell us, why should someone whose family was not in America have to "pay" for the sins of those in the past?
 
2013-05-15 03:07:29 PM  
So Farbongo would only get half a scholarship?


/ziing
 
2013-05-15 03:08:08 PM  

Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.


It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?
 
2013-05-15 03:08:11 PM  

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


I was done school about 10 years ago.  But on principle I find it sad that it's perfectly ok for a minority group to have a targeted scholarship while a Caucasian group can't have the same.
 
2013-05-15 03:08:19 PM  

MindStalker: Its possible that this scholorship is an endowment that is controlled by the university, so the university is responsible for deciding recipients. Where these other scholorships are all independantly run and the university is not a deciding body, they just accept the money.


They're just following orders?
That defense didn't work very well.
 
2013-05-15 03:08:25 PM  

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.


Reverse discrimination? Nope I wouldnt call it that.
just plain old hypocrisy. Its 2013 nobody going to college had to sit at the back of the bus
 
2013-05-15 03:09:10 PM  
couldn't help but notice this along the bottom of tfa:

s1.ibtimes.com

how has that not shown up on Fark already? or did I just miss it?
 
2013-05-15 03:09:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.


You hold her like a long barreled rifle.
 
2013-05-15 03:09:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.


Knifing?
 
2013-05-15 03:09:17 PM  

awalkingecho: UrukHaiGuyz: Well in that case call me Picasso.

Crooked member, eh?


Coulda been worse, at least it's not Van Gone.
 
2013-05-15 03:09:34 PM  

jshine: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

...and by "deep South" do you mean Iowa or New York? -- because the scholarship in question is for Iowans going to a school in New York.

I'm not saying that there was no discrimination in the north, but bringing the South into the discussion is a complete red herring.


Iowa has a "Beat Whitey Night" at the state fair so they are at least trying to make up for some of it.
 
2013-05-15 03:09:36 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: special20: I would be ticked off if somebody messed with my bequeathed scholarship fund, and how I dictated it be doled out. If for instance I am offering a scholarship to only  a select group of people with larger than normal genitalia, I would bloody well expect every applicant to show their undercarriage to the people I trusted with that fund. Those who do not meet the specific criteria, are just shiat out of luck and will have to beg for money elsewhere.

Also, when you find a better school, the scholarship finding gets done for you, and nobody splits hairs over the qualifications - because there are so damn many.

I'm pretty sure that the woman in question is dead.  This isn't the first time this has come up; what to you do when a scholarship/endowment's purpose is 100 years out of date?  How much leeway can an university have in re-purposing the money, or does it become an unexpected windfall for relatives 100 years down the line?


She is likely dead, but likely shocked to learn that because she stipulated race in her scholarship fund, that she has to blow the devil for eternity - as well as hear how the university is going to (clutch your pearls) New York City to get things de-whitified. Shocked. Having the vapors, I'm sure.
 
2013-05-15 03:10:05 PM  

give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?


OMG, who did that to them?
 
2013-05-15 03:10:52 PM  

Girl Pants: Many scholarships are supported by a private backer or two, often the estate of some rich person. If that person/group/estate want to make a fund to help students of some kind (be they majority or minority), I feel they should be allowed.

While I understand that statistically many groups are disadvantaged over others, and in the service of trying to "equalizing" everyone it is "better" to target disadvantaged persons, that does not mean you should not be allowed to help out people of a traditionally/statistically advantaged group.


All the same, I think scholarships should be based on need and merit only, myself.

/white male who received scholarships due to coming from poor family and having good grades
//just because some white men are the richest and most powerful does not mean all whites and males are rich and powerful.


Lucky you, I paid my way in full even after making the dean's list twice. If I were a little less white... it would of been free.
 
2013-05-15 03:11:29 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?
 
2013-05-15 03:12:20 PM  

MindStalker: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

Its possible that this scholorship is an endowment that is controlled by the university, so the university is responsible for deciding recipients. Where these other scholorships are all independantly run and the university is not a deciding body, they just accept the money.



Could be.  My comment isn't really meant toward the legal side but rather the ethical side.
 
2013-05-15 03:12:30 PM  

mrlewish: So Farbongo would only get half a scholarship?

/ziing



Maybe, but the other half of him would get half of a different scholarship, so it'd all work out.
 
2013-05-15 03:12:34 PM  

The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.


Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.
 
2013-05-15 03:13:04 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

OMG, who did that to them?


WASPs. 

That's all that was left of them. The poor souls.
 
2013-05-15 03:13:06 PM  

tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?


By then they will have agreed they are racist
 
2013-05-15 03:13:14 PM  

boarch: Girl Pants: Many scholarships are supported by a private backer or two, often the estate of some rich person. If that person/group/estate want to make a fund to help students of some kind (be they majority or minority), I feel they should be allowed.

While I understand that statistically many groups are disadvantaged over others, and in the service of trying to "equalizing" everyone it is "better" to target disadvantaged persons, that does not mean you should not be allowed to help out people of a traditionally/statistically advantaged group.


All the same, I think scholarships should be based on need and merit only, myself.

/white male who received scholarships due to coming from poor family and having good grades
//just because some white men are the richest and most powerful does not mean all whites and males are rich and powerful.

Lucky you, I paid my way in full even after making the dean's list twice. If I were a little less white... it would of been free.


Are you sure you didn't attend collage instead?

/I keed
//*would have
///pet peeve
 
2013-05-15 03:13:41 PM  

Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".


Some animals are more equal than others. Doubleplusgood of you to realize that.
 
2013-05-15 03:13:45 PM  

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.
 
2013-05-15 03:13:53 PM  
Subby, linking to autoplaying videos is a bad idea too.
 
2013-05-15 03:13:59 PM  

give me doughnuts: MindStalker: Its possible that this scholorship is an endowment that is controlled by the university, so the university is responsible for deciding recipients. Where these other scholorships are all independantly run and the university is not a deciding body, they just accept the money.

They're just following orders?
That defense didn't work very well.


??? Universities will generally accept scholarships from the KKK, they don't care as long as your tuition is paid. This scholarship is managed by Columbia, so they are suing themselves to get the stipulating rules which were set in 1920 changed by a judge.
 
2013-05-15 03:14:16 PM  

lennavan: Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship. Everyone else should be on equal footing. Deal?


No way. We could have given up the 40 acres and a mule when we had the chance, but noooooo.
 
2013-05-15 03:14:23 PM  

Joe Blowme: jshine: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

...and by "deep South" do you mean Iowa or New York? -- because the scholarship in question is for Iowans going to a school in New York.

I'm not saying that there was no discrimination in the north, but bringing the South into the discussion is a complete red herring.

Iowa has a "Beat Whitey Night" at the state fair so they are at least trying to make up for some of it.



Yay, more opportunity to dust off the hate crime laws.  That's always a hoot.
 
2013-05-15 03:15:08 PM  

endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.


Didn't he?
 
2013-05-15 03:15:30 PM  

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.


*do have it better
 
2013-05-15 03:15:46 PM  

Joe Blowme: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

By then they will have agreed they are racist


Wouldn't that be nice? Then they could use the trusts collectively to reduce tuition for everybody to go to school, based on merit.
 
2013-05-15 03:15:46 PM  

give me doughnuts: Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.


You should see China.  That place is not even 1% Caucasian.  It's full of blacks.
 
2013-05-15 03:16:00 PM  

Mose: Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.

Knifing?


Stabbing
 
2013-05-15 03:16:04 PM  

dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?


a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.
 
2013-05-15 03:16:59 PM  
I think I finally get it;

Racism for Whites = Pariah
Racism for Blacks = Acceptable/tolerable
Racism for Asians = Once acceptable but they assimilated too quickly so it's now almost as bad as being a racist white.
Racism for Hispanics = Acceptable if they vote Democratic, Pariah if they vote Republican.
 
2013-05-15 03:17:16 PM  
As someone who holds degrees from both Iowa and Columbia, I'm getting a kick out of...
 
2013-05-15 03:17:31 PM  

jshine: Joe Blowme: jshine: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

...and by "deep South" do you mean Iowa or New York? -- because the scholarship in question is for Iowans going to a school in New York.

I'm not saying that there was no discrimination in the north, but bringing the South into the discussion is a complete red herring.

Iowa has a "Beat Whitey Night" at the state fair so they are at least trying to make up for some of it.


Yay, more opportunity to dust off the hate crime laws.  That's always a hoot.


No, no, no, its a Beat Whitey Night, no hate crime there.... maybe a stern warning.
 
2013-05-15 03:17:48 PM  

abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.


Yep.

Once got bluntly told by the black president/owner of a company that (paraphrased) "personality and technical qualifications (both excellent) aside, you would not be liked by some of our black employees, therefore sorry about that, no job for you."

Didn't "shake and cry" about it, just went out to the next job interview.
 
2013-05-15 03:18:43 PM  

ReverendJynxed: endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.

Didn't he?


Understatement of the last thousand years
 
2013-05-15 03:18:47 PM  

utah dude: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.


play.esea.net
 
2013-05-15 03:19:11 PM  
Getting pretty stormfronty in here.
 
2013-05-15 03:19:26 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology


What about veterinary theology?
 
2013-05-15 03:19:51 PM  

special20: She is likely dead, but likely shocked to learn that because she stipulated race in her scholarship fund, that she has to blow the devil for eternity - as well as hear how the university is going to (clutch your pearls) New York City to get things de-whitified. Shocked. Having the vapors, I'm sure.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-15 03:19:58 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


Or poop on it, or pee.

Do all three and it's called multimedia and it gets shown on world tour.
 
2013-05-15 03:20:12 PM  

JesseL: I wonder how it would have played out if a black student applied for a "whites only" scholarship (or vice versa)? AFAIK, there's not much legal or scientific basis for defining race, so would they just let it go? Would some bureaucrat get the job of saying "I can't prove anything about your race, but I am reasonably confident that you are disqualified by your melanin levels"?


Well, I know of another group that discriminates based on midichlorian levels.
 
2013-05-15 03:20:42 PM  

tlars699: Joe Blowme: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

By then they will have agreed they are racist

Wouldn't that be nice? Then they could use the trusts collectively to reduce tuition for everybody to go to school, based on merit.


THE HELL YOU SAY!!! Judging people based on character and not skin color? Why would you even suggest such a thing? Where do you get these crazy ideas?
 
2013-05-15 03:21:02 PM  

Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better


I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping
 
2013-05-15 03:21:09 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Or poop on it, or pee.

Do all three and it's called multimedia and it gets shown on world tour.


I wish you were wrong.
 
2013-05-15 03:21:29 PM  

give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?


I take it you have a limited knowlege of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant
 
2013-05-15 03:21:48 PM  

HailRobonia: exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

What about veterinary theology?


I don't believe in Dog
 
2013-05-15 03:22:13 PM  

utah dude: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.


How can just one person be diverse? Also, rich and white don't need labels since they're already readily apparent.

/liberals all talk like dis, mah dizzle! Ya herrrrd?
 
2013-05-15 03:22:34 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.

I was done school about 10 years ago.  But on principle I find it sad that it's perfectly ok for a minority group to have a targeted scholarship while a Caucasian group can't have the same.


It's not so much "OK", as it is not furthering an ongoing injustice.  I certainly can agree to "sad" though.  I won't contest "sad."
 
2013-05-15 03:23:10 PM  
"When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports. "

THE HELL YOU SAY!!

how farking much is a one year scholarship?  50k?  farking fark thats stupid
 
2013-05-15 03:24:02 PM  

Elegy: Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.

It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?


Because it's to get underrepresented groups into colleges, which is why Asians don't get them either.

If whites were underrepresented then they should have scholarships. That's the logic to it.
 
2013-05-15 03:24:24 PM  

Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better


O_O Cynical, aren't we?

Minority means one thing, and numbers fluctuate, especially given cultural propensities to procreate. Also, multiracial kids are on the rise, and will all look Brazilian, so then what?
 
2013-05-15 03:24:55 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better

I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping


Like how it has been studied that despite identical resumes, resumes with black-sounding names get called back much less than white sounding names?

Oh look, you are trying to imply that I am the racist here by saying I stereotype. Reminds me of all the Republicans that have called the Democrats as the "true racist" in this country. Ain't going to work on me, pal.
 
2013-05-15 03:25:30 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: utah dude: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.

How can just one person be diverse? Also, rich and white don't need labels since they're already readily apparent.

/liberals all talk like dis, mah dizzle! Ya herrrrd?


FTFM, already
 
2013-05-15 03:25:48 PM  

lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?


I'm not sure about those, but I know a white guy who got an NAACP scholarship.
 
2013-05-15 03:25:54 PM  

Rapmaster2000: give me doughnuts: Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.

You should see China.  That place is not even 1% Caucasian.  It's full of blacks.



Interestingly, Mrs. jshine is Chinese; my family is originally from Northern Europe (mostly German, some English & Polish), but if we hold our arms side-by-side and simply look at skin tone, she's slightly whiter than I am.
 
2013-05-15 03:26:41 PM  

Joe Blowme: tlars699: Joe Blowme: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

By then they will have agreed they are racist

Wouldn't that be nice? Then they could use the trusts collectively to reduce tuition for everybody to go to school, based on merit.

THE HELL YOU SAY!!! Judging people based on character and not skin color? Why would you even suggest such a thing? Where do you get these crazy ideas?


I lurk here. Where else do you think? My libtard publik education, Comrade?
 
2013-05-15 03:26:52 PM  

kvinesknows: "When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports. "

THE HELL YOU SAY!!

how farking much is a one year scholarship?  50k?  farking fark thats stupid


And in 1997 apparently...
 
2013-05-15 03:27:38 PM  

vygramul: I'm not sure about those, but I know a white guy who got an NAACP scholarship.


Did they know he was white when they awarded him the scholarship?

/I'm pretty sure this was a (bad) movie
 
2013-05-15 03:27:45 PM  
I'm sure JPMorgan Chase will be happy to change the scholarship.  From $22,000/yr to $0/yr.  In fact, apparently they've already started doing that.

/bend over & pucker up, CU
 
2013-05-15 03:28:02 PM  

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.


Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?
 
2013-05-15 03:29:21 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


In the yogurt. No one will see it coming.
 
2013-05-15 03:29:25 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.

Or poop on it, or pee.

Do all three and it's called multimedia and it gets shown on world tour.


Ironically linked article:

http://www.ibtimes.com/introducing-skywhale-canberra-australias-cont ro versial-300k-centenary-balloon-photos-1256431
 
2013-05-15 03:29:41 PM  
FTA: "Circumstances have so changed from the time when the Trust was established," making it "impossible" to comply with the scholarship's requirements


What?  It's impossible to be white?
 
2013-05-15 03:30:03 PM  

OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

I take it you have a limited knowlege of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant


From your link:  Not all were sent willingly. Several instances of  kidnapping for transportation to the Americas are recorded and this falls more clearly into the bracket of "white slave". Whilst these white slaves were often indentured in the same way as their willing counterparts it is an important distinction to make. An illustrative example of such a kidnap story is that of (1730-1799).
n the 17th century, nearly two-thirds of settlers to the Americas from theBritish Isles came as indentured servants. Given the high death rate, many servants did not live to the end of their terms.
 
2013-05-15 03:30:10 PM  
xmasbaby:

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

Yes he is.,
 
2013-05-15 03:30:15 PM  

Mr Guy: Hence Rhodesia, the African Whitey-ville country.


I think the census considered Egyptians to be white, too.
 
2013-05-15 03:31:31 PM  

kvinesknows: "When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports. "

THE HELL YOU SAY!!

how farking much is a one year scholarship?  50k?  farking fark thats stupid


http://sfs.columbia.edu/tuition-rates-and-fees
I believe these rates are per semester. But yes, tuition is expensive. For comparison the state college there's tuition is about $2,700 per semester.
 
2013-05-15 03:31:54 PM  
Just wondering.... when latino's make up over 50% of the U.S., which is supposed to happen around the 2040's, are all of the Latino only scholarship's at that point then wrong?
 
2013-05-15 03:32:40 PM  

jshine: kvinesknows: "When the scholarship was last offered in 1997, it amounted to $22,000 per year, last than half of a full year's tuition, The Daily News reports. "

THE HELL YOU SAY!!

how farking much is a one year scholarship?  50k?  farking fark thats stupid

And in 1997 apparently...


so...80K per year now?
 
2013-05-15 03:32:59 PM  
Oh lawdy, too much white libertarian neckbeard butthurt in this thread.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:10 PM  

xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?


It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:11 PM  
I congratulate my alma mater on trying to remedy the situation.

Columbia is about as diverse a school as you can possibly get. The area around campus is vibrant and multi-racial, in a relatively safe part of Manhattan. CU's community outreach programs are everywhere in NYC, they do a lot of good work. And, of course, they have some of the smartest minds in the world there, being Ivy League and all.

And there's the added bonus of being close to Barnard.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:17 PM  
Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:17 PM  
Scholarships at the post secondary level that intend to alter demographics are ridiculous.  The issues that cause specific demographics to choose different lines of study happen much earlier in a child's life.  If you want to appreciably alter the demographics in particular lines of study the scholarship money would be better spent on initiatives to introduce underrepresented demographics to those fields of study are an earlier time.

As an example scholarships for women in engineering are quite common because women are underrepresented in engineering. Women are underrepresented because girls are not taught math and science as well as boys. There is a cultural bias against girls who excel at math and science. This bias either turns girls away or causes teachers to spend less time assisting them with difficult concepts.

If a young woman is deciding what to study in university she's not going to pick a subject that she has done poorly at (because of these factors) simply because it has a scholarship for women.  If that money had been spent educating her or in getting her interested in math and science she might decide to give it a go.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:50 PM  
That's it! I'm going to start a Miss Meatsack_01 beauty pageant. Non-meatsacks need not apply.
 
2013-05-15 03:34:12 PM  

Corvus: Elegy: Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.

It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?

Because it's to get underrepresented groups into colleges, which is why Asians don't get them either.

If whites were underrepresented then they should have scholarships. That's the logic to it.


Asian-American students don't have grants and scholarships available to them specifically based on their race?

That's news to me.

It's probably news to the APIASF as well.
 
2013-05-15 03:34:35 PM  
So, that means they're going to ban all the "blacks only" scholarships, all the "hispanics only" scholarships, etc., right? What? Hypocrisy is moral so long as it's LEFTIST hypocrisy? Never mind, then.
 
2013-05-15 03:35:34 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Back in 1920, there was only one black man in Iowa. Steve.

But Lydia C. Roberts didn't want to be rude and make an "Anyone but Steve" scholarship, so she had to go a little more vague/broad and go white's only.


marieclairvoyant.com
 
2013-05-15 03:36:23 PM  
How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?
 
2013-05-15 03:36:34 PM  

Elegy: Corvus: Elegy: Highroller48: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

That, and the whole "IT'S ILLEGAL" thing, which I'm sure had nothing at all to do with the decision to stop awarding it.

Double-fail.

It's legal to award minority students grants based on race, but illegal to distribute a grant specifically for whites based on their race?

I-I.... don't understand. Can you explain it to me?

Because it's to get underrepresented groups into colleges, which is why Asians don't get them either.

If whites were underrepresented then they should have scholarships. That's the logic to it.

Asian-American students don't have grants and scholarships available to them specifically based on their race?

That's news to me.

It's probably news to the APIASF as well.



And here are Irish-american scholorships:

http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/
 
2013-05-15 03:37:06 PM  

vudukungfu: "Columbia University is now prohibited by law and University policy from discriminating on the basis of race."

Now that it's 2013, they mean.
Now that they've been caught.


Because they have ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER SCHOLARSHIPS handed out on race. Columbia doesn't have any "blacks only" scholarships, right? They do?

That's okay. Liberal hypocrisy is always moral.
 
2013-05-15 03:37:13 PM  

boarch: Lucky you, I paid my way in full even after making the dean's list twice. If I were a little less white... it would of been free.


You sound "aggie"
 
2013-05-15 03:37:21 PM  

jshine: Rapmaster2000: give me doughnuts: Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.

You should see China.  That place is not even 1% Caucasian.  It's full of blacks.


Interestingly, Mrs. jshine is Chinese; my family is originally from Northern Europe (mostly German, some English & Polish), but if we hold our arms side-by-side and simply look at skin tone, she's slightly whiter than I am.


Ya but only until she is exposed to sunlight. The Korean GF is pretty white as well (skin tone) but an hour in the sun and she is dark mocha
 
2013-05-15 03:38:53 PM  

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


why do black people get to complain about white people demanding equality?
 
2013-05-15 03:39:04 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: I was done school about 10 years ago.


You probably shouldn't have stopped after junior high. You might want to look into taking some night school classes.
 
2013-05-15 03:39:47 PM  
I wonder when BET television will finally catch up to this idea.
 
2013-05-15 03:39:53 PM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?


Ugh. In general new immigrant blacks don't need help, the problem is poverty, and the biggest determination of poverty in this culture is race, though poor comes in all stripes, more and more aid is being shifted to income based rather than race. That said, the reasons for the rampant black poverty has a lot to do with intentionally policies from civil war till the 1980s on.
 
2013-05-15 03:39:55 PM  

Silly_Sot: Liberal hypocrisy is always moral.


You DO realize that Columbia University is a liberal bastion, right?
 
2013-05-15 03:40:00 PM  

endmile: Mose: Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.

Knifing?

Stabbing


Pole vaulting?
 
2013-05-15 03:40:05 PM  
Dear people with your panties in a bunch,

WHITE is not an ethnicity. There ARE scholarships for ethnicites that have white people:

Here is an example of one of Irish Americans:
http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/

So shut up.
 
2013-05-15 03:40:08 PM  

Fallout Boy: teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better

I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping

Like how it has been studied that despite identical resumes, resumes with black-sounding names get called back much less than white sounding names?

Oh look, you are trying to imply that I am the racist here by saying I stereotype. Reminds me of all the Republicans that have called the Democrats as the "true racist" in this country. Ain't going to work on me, pal.


I think your puting words in my mouth, pal.
What exactly do you mean by a white sounding name? Are you implying a black dude cant be named peter or john.

what are the odds of getting a call back if your a white person who had hippie parents that named you starshine?

besides kunta kinte sounds horrible over a pa system.

I would also say there is a difference between being a racist and stereotyping people.
 
2013-05-15 03:40:46 PM  

tlars699: OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

I take it you have a limited knowlege of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant

From your link:  Not all were sent willingly. Several instances of  kidnapping for transportation to the Americas are recorded and this falls more clearly into the bracket of "white slave". Whilst these white slaves were often indentured in the same way as their willing counterparts it is an important distinction to make. An illustrative example of such a kidnap story is that of (1730-1799).
n the 17th century, nearly two-thirds of settlers to the Americas from theBritish Isles came as indentured servants. Given the high death rate, many servants did not live to the end of their terms.



So like this?
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian -h ercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/
 
2013-05-15 03:40:51 PM  

endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.


True, but he had a better mustache, so that's got to count for something.  And I suppose he wasn't actively trying to kill them all, just wasn't particularly upset if they died in horrible ways.

/But you wonder:  how would a Hitler Scholarship be received?
//Also:  Rhodes is one of the few people you can compare to Hitler without Godwining the thread
 
2013-05-15 03:41:01 PM  

I Browse: why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"


There is.

It's called E!
 
2013-05-15 03:41:24 PM  

Silly_Sot: Columbia doesn't have any "blacks only" scholarships, right? They do?


No.  Columbia does not administer any "blacks only" scholarships.  That's the issue here: Columbia cannot legally administer a scholarship that restricts its awards based on race.

If an outside organization wants to administer such scholarships, that's up to them; they can restrict the grants to blacks or whites or women or anyone they want to.  And, they can also restrict the award to Columbia students.  But, COLUMBIA CANNOT DO SO ITSELF.
 
2013-05-15 03:41:43 PM  

special20: endmile: Mose: Satanic_Hamster: What in The: Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

But you can't scissor with only one leg.  That doesn't even make sense.

Knifing?

Stabbing

Pole vaulting?


Letter opening?
 
2013-05-15 03:41:45 PM  

give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?


Worse than slaves actually..indentured servant.  Indentured servants got to be free after a specifed period, slaves did not.  Therefore you had no econimic incentive to keep them alive longer than their indentures.  So you gave them the jobs too dangerous for a slave to do.  This was also true when they started flooding the country during the Potato Famine, you had even less economic investment in a day laborer when the supply of available hands was nearly inexhuastible.  That's why an old canal building song includes the line:  "They died by the hundreds/with no sign to mark where.  Save the brass in the pockets/ of the Entreprenuers"

BUT  despite the fact that they too were persecuted by the KKK at one time, and bore the full brunt of nativist hatred, the Irish, mostly by virtue of the fact that they quickly were not a "minority" in this country, manage to seize poltical and institutional power very quickly and don;t really ahve the history fo disenfranchisement and legal powerlessness that blacks faced.  and YES discrimination was in many ways are virulent in the North as the South, but in the South it was legally enshrined in a way it simply ws not in the north.    In the north blacks at least had access to both the education (public school were not segregated) economic opportunity, and voting power to better thier situation.   the same is not true fo the south.
 
2013-05-15 03:41:51 PM  

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc

  the truth my ears will start bleeding.

FTFY

/you sound racist
 
2013-05-15 03:42:34 PM  
By the way I am against ethnic based scholar ships too (because I feel looking at their economic background would work better) however you guys sound like idiots with you "Why do black people get all the brakes!!" and having no clue what you are talking about.
 
2013-05-15 03:42:40 PM  
kvinesknows:

why do black people get to complain about white people demanding equality?


I'm not complaining. That's the point. You want your own stuff? Cool with me. Have at it.
 
2013-05-15 03:43:37 PM  

Iceberg659: Oh lawdy, too much white libertarian neckbeard butthurt in this thread.


I grant you that most assistance to colored folk is currently needed-white men are the majority in management, etc. and I expect all "minority" things to be disbanded, once race is no longer a minority/majority issue. And that people get equal support everywhere, based on need and merit.

But this is in IOWA. Y'know, poor white country, where all they export is corn? And the bylaws written in the 1920's could be changed, but instead they're dismantling the whole thing, preventing a poor guy from getting a scholarship where it wasn't hurting anyone- as tons of scholarships are extended to everyone else, due to exclusion rules.
 
2013-05-15 03:43:44 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: "...you would not be liked by some of our black employees, therefore sorry about that, no job for you."


It was the AB tattoo on your neck, right?
 
2013-05-15 03:44:12 PM  

The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.


What a black Rhodes scholar might look like.
www.history.com
 
2013-05-15 03:44:34 PM  

mainstreet62: I congratulate my alma mater on trying to remedy the situation.

Columbia is about as diverse a school as you can possibly get. The area around campus is vibrant and multi-racial


In other words, it's a slum.
 
2013-05-15 03:44:39 PM  
www.danzigner.com
 
2013-05-15 03:44:50 PM  

Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


In north america women are most definatley not discriminated against in school. Nor in court.
 
2013-05-15 03:45:21 PM  

jshine: Rapmaster2000: give me doughnuts: Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Sorry, but no. Iowa is 88.7% caucasian, and Idaho is only 84%.

Only Maine, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia are more white than Iowa.

You should see China.  That place is not even 1% Caucasian.  It's full of blacks.


Interestingly, Mrs. jshine is Chinese; my family is originally from Northern Europe (mostly German, some English & Polish), but if we hold our arms side-by-side and simply look at skin tone, she's slightly whiter than I am.


static.tvtropes.org
That's because as our Foundingest Father said, Germans are a swarthy people.  Now, if you were a true white person like the people of England then you would be lighter.

www.bitterwallet.com

Now, this is an example of proper WASP bloodlines.  If you threw some German in their blood then they would be no better than common Spaniards.  *shudder*
 
2013-05-15 03:45:41 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-15 03:46:05 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?


I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but your post is forcing me to reply.

Are you actually making that argument that because a certain group of people have been discriminated against in the past that it is acceptable for them to discriminate against others now?
 
2013-05-15 03:46:15 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Having the vapors, I'm sure.

upload.wikimedia.org

Then she turned Japanese. Awesome.
 
2013-05-15 03:46:48 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fallout Boy: teenage mutant ninja rapist: Fallout Boy: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

*do have it better

I gotta say your wrong. Just being white does not automatically mean that you have things any better or worse than anyone else.

but continue stereotyping

Like how it has been studied that despite identical resumes, resumes with black-sounding names get called back much less than white sounding names?

Oh look, you are trying to imply that I am the racist here by saying I stereotype. Reminds me of all the Republicans that have called the Democrats as the "true racist" in this country. Ain't going to work on me, pal.

I think your puting words in my mouth, pal.
What exactly do you mean by a white sou ...


Try harderer.
 
2013-05-15 03:47:11 PM  

abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.


Liberal doublethink.
 
2013-05-15 03:47:37 PM  

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


But it's OK when black people whine about things, right? RIGHT???
 
2013-05-15 03:47:54 PM  
Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker:

Regardless of content, it's always funny when you post in these threads.
 
2013-05-15 03:48:03 PM  
I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.
 
2013-05-15 03:48:17 PM  
I applied for a minority scholarship in college, it was for anybody living "in the foothills of Appalachia", so, it was basically a "poor white trash" scholarship.
 
2013-05-15 03:48:47 PM  
I was a little surprised to see that this is only now being reconstructed. Lots of old scholarships, endowments, foundations, etc. have similar language. In general (and certainly in NY State), if a trust/fund such as this contains language that violates public policy, that language is either disregarded or the trustee files a motion with the proper court to strike the language or rewrite the language to conform with public policy.

I've seen and dealt with this a number of times over the years; fixing it is a non-event.

Ultimately, this isn't really news.
 
2013-05-15 03:50:03 PM  

Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


This is currently illegal, and easier to have evidence of poor treatment.

Work place practices are exploiting current loopholes, and forcing you to comply with a corporate reporting system, which is biased against you, the (former) employee, anyway.
Protip: When a corporate line says they want to record you, you ask to record them in return. Otherwise, expect to be doctored on tape.
 
2013-05-15 03:50:36 PM  

randomjsa: I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.


But if everyone has to play by the same rules, only the superior people will rise to the top!
 
2013-05-15 03:52:40 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Now, this is an example of proper WASP bloodlines.  If you threw some German in their blood then they would be no better than common Spaniards.  *shudder*


No better than common Spaniards you say!?  How discourteous to make such a comparison!
 
2013-05-15 03:53:16 PM  
Well I, for one, am glad that 'someone' has taken the time to offer up a whites-only scholarship.

God knows, those folk need all the help they can get in getting into college.
 
2013-05-15 03:53:17 PM  

Corvus: Dear people with your panties in a bunch,

WHITE is not an ethnicity. There ARE scholarships for ethnicites that have white people:

Here is an example of one of Irish Americans:
http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/

So shut up.


Two scholarships (now one, since Columbia is trying to give this one the axe) =/= the plethora of minority scholarships available to non-white students

Also, if "white" is not an ethnicity, then how is "black" an ethnicity?
 
2013-05-15 03:53:18 PM  
To be fair, whites are a minority in Colombia.
 
2013-05-15 03:53:21 PM  

BigNumber12: Representative of the unwashed masses: I was done school about 10 years ago.

You probably shouldn't have stopped after junior high. You might want to look into taking some night school classes.


api.ning.com
 
2013-05-15 03:53:35 PM  

tlars699: Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

This is currently illegal, and easier to have evidence of poor treatment.

Work place practices are exploiting current loopholes, and forcing you to comply ...


I was not referring to systematic, institutionalized discrimination.
 
2013-05-15 03:53:52 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


What on Earth was Jackson Pollock doing on his canvases?.
 
2013-05-15 03:54:24 PM  
Joe Blowme:

FTFY

/you sound racist


Oh do I? What specifically did I write that sounded racist to you? And just so we're clear, I mean the dictionary definition of racism.
 
2013-05-15 03:54:53 PM  

I Browse: kvinesknows:

why do black people get to complain about white people demanding equality?


I'm not complaining. That's the point. You want your own stuff? Cool with me. Have at it.


I was promised bleeding ears.......
 
2013-05-15 03:55:30 PM  

randomjsa: I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.


Throw in getting rid of racial profiling that disproportionately targets minorities, and you've got a deal.

Of course, you have to deal with the fact that you're restricting the freedom of people to set up gifts that are, by definition, restricted (that is, they're not public gifts -- kind of like the difference between a place of public accommodation and a private club).  If someone wants to set up a fund to defray the educational costs for albino Mexicans, why do you care?  The reason this scholarship has to be changed isn't that it was set up to benefit white students exclusively, it's that it's financed by a grant made to the University that the University has to administer.  And, they can't legally do that.  But, if an outside group wanted to set up a whites-only scholarship, that would be perfectly legal.
 
2013-05-15 03:55:35 PM  

lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?


I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU  and where you start out in life?
 
2013-05-15 03:56:05 PM  

MindStalker: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

Ugh. In general new immigrant blacks don't need help, the problem is poverty, and the biggest determination of poverty in this culture is race, though poor comes in all stripes, more and more aid is being shifted to income based rather than race. That said, the reasons for the rampant black poverty has a lot to do with intentionally policies from civil war till the 1980s on.


Bullshiat. It has everything to do with culture and how you are raised as a child. Just because you are poor does not give you a free pass to be a degenerate. It is not everyone else's fault that you are impoverished. Rampant "black poverty" has more to do with the fact they are a part of a culture where working and education are not respected, and the only thing to be respected is money and power. How you obtain those two things does not matter, it is all about the status. This is the polar opposite of the Asian culture which by and large respects work and education. Then you have the Hispanic culture which respects working, but not so much education. Call me a racist for stereotyping and generalizing, I don't care. THAT is the problem, not poverty. I will say that poverty provides additional challenges, but then so does coming from a background of wealth. For the most part, the kids that were born with a silver spoon in their mouths didn't turn out so well...
 
2013-05-15 03:56:18 PM  

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.



As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.
 
2013-05-15 03:56:29 PM  

OgreMagi: vygramul: I'm not sure about those, but I know a white guy who got an NAACP scholarship.

Did they know he was white when they awarded him the scholarship?

/I'm pretty sure this was a (bad) movie


Yes. Apparently, they have to give out the money. It's one of those things you can do as a student: apply for all scholarships, and sometimes, you can get unexpected ones as a result.
 
2013-05-15 03:56:42 PM  

ImperialHazman: tlars699: OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

I take it you have a limited knowlege of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant


From your link:  Not all were sent willingly. Several instances of  kidnapping for transportation to the Americas are recorded and this falls more clearly into the bracket of "white slave". Whilst these white slaves were often indentured in the same way as their willing counterparts it is an important distinction to make. An illustrative example of such a kidnap story is that of (1730-1799).
n the 17th century, nearly two-thirds of settlers to the Americas from theBritish Isles came as indentured servants. Given the high death rate, many servants did not live to the end of their terms.


So like this?
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian -h ercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/


Yes? I know of them, and I agree- I quoted from the wikipedia article presented as an argument against the idea that there were Irish slaves in America.
 
2013-05-15 03:57:00 PM  

Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".


This(nert)
 
2013-05-15 03:57:14 PM  
You know what. This bothers me. You would think scholarships shouldbbe doled out on academic merit, not the color of ones skin.

"B buh muh oppressed races."

Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships. Cause that would be white, and that's apparently bad.

Goddamn these people for making me even share a centimeters worth of ideological similarity to some stormfront asshat.
 
2013-05-15 03:57:41 PM  
I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?


I like that LBJ quote.  It seems like something he'd say.

Secondly, we're still not free of institutionalized racism.
 
2013-05-15 03:57:52 PM  

Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"


...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?
 
2013-05-15 03:58:09 PM  
Scholarships should apply to exactly what the person said they should apply to, otherwise you're subverting their charity with your own desires.

The money will still be going to people that need the help, it just so happens they're white.
Unless there's a "use this education to kill minorities" qualifier in the fine print, why should it matter?
 
2013-05-15 03:58:10 PM  
Gosh, I didn't realize that America was such an unfair country for whites.

Thank de lawd for Fark.com
 
2013-05-15 03:58:20 PM  

I Browse: Joe Blowme:

FTFY

/you sound racist

Oh do I? What specifically did I write that sounded racist to you? And just so we're clear, I mean the dictionary definition of racism.


www.inquisitr.com
 
2013-05-15 03:58:48 PM  

TheGregiss: You know what. This bothers me. You would think scholarships shouldbbe doled out on academic merit, not the color of ones skin.

"B buh muh oppressed races."

Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships. Cause that would be white, and that's apparently bad.

Goddamn these people for making me even share a centimeters worth of ideological similarity to some stormfront asshat.


Umm....Just up thread is a guy talking about an Irish-only scholarship.  just an fyi.
 
2013-05-15 03:59:28 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Gosh, I didn't realize that America was such an unfair country for whites.

Thank de lawd for Fark.com


Have you tried being white lately? You should try it sometime, you might be in for a surprise.
 
2013-05-15 03:59:55 PM  

Corvus: Dear people with your panties in a bunch,

WHITE is not an ethnicity. There ARE scholarships for ethnicites that have white people:

Here is an example of one of Irish Americans:
http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/

So shut up.


Funny: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people. 

Also, what about the mutts from all over Europe? Should they be able to apply to every single one of the scholarships, provided they have the genealogy mapped out?

Not that I disagree with your point, I just don't like the argument you presented supporting it.
 
2013-05-15 04:00:13 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: To be fair, whites are a minority in Colombia.


Wrong.  Those space shuttles were filled with white people.
 
2013-05-15 04:00:52 PM  

TheGregiss: Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships.


You probably should've read the thread before posting:

http://www.scholarship-programs.net/irish-americans/
 
2013-05-15 04:01:28 PM  

Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.


"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.
 
2013-05-15 04:01:46 PM  

Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


I have some GREAT news for you!  I just did a highly scientific study of pulling up Google, entering the phrase "percent women in ______  school " and quickly substituted "law" "medical" and "journalism."  Looks like women are currently over represented in journalism school and roughly equally represented in medical and law school.  When I substituted simply "college" the numbers jumped even higher.  Apparently MEN are now underrepresented in US colleges and it may be time for us to start getting some of that exclusive, no womenz allowed, free money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?pagewanted=a ll &_r=0

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/aug/18/women-dominate-j-school-enr ol lment/

Anyway, I think we can safely do away with these silly, "women only" scholarships.  Don't you?
 
2013-05-15 04:03:06 PM  

jshine: Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?


Are Irish people generally discriminated against in society on the same scale as Hispanics and African Americans?

If so, then...yeah, get those pro-Irish statutes out there and enforced.

If not, then....lol
 
2013-05-15 04:03:36 PM  

Infernalist: TheGregiss: You know what. This bothers me. You would think scholarships shouldbbe doled out on academic merit, not the color of ones skin.

"B buh muh oppressed races."

Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships. Cause that would be white, and that's apparently bad.

Goddamn these people for making me even share a centimeters worth of ideological similarity to some stormfront asshat.

Umm....Just up thread is a guy talking about an Irish-only scholarship.  just an fyi.


Well hot damn. Lemme look at up. My point still kind of stands though. Scholarships based on race and not academic prowess (you should have to wrestle a bear with math) are stupid.
 
2013-05-15 04:03:46 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


This could be the hip new breakfast spot featuring egg white omelots. I want in on the ground floor.
 
2013-05-15 04:04:01 PM  

tlars699: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people.


White is a race.  Hispanic is an ethnicity that can be of any race.  You can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, an Asian Hispanic and so forth.  Seriously.  On any government form, race and ethnicity are going to be two separate questions.  Example:

www.pewhispanic.org
 
2013-05-15 04:04:45 PM  

Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?


My guess is the reason it hasn't been given since 1997 is that they can't find anyone to admit from Iowa who meets the other requirements of "not seeking a useful degree" and "required to move back to Iowa" and "Oh by the way it only pays half".  So they just couldn't find that one white journalism student from Iowa who has a hankering for writing a weekly farm column but they still want to use the money for something.
 
2013-05-15 04:04:52 PM  
BigNumber12  As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal withnon-white"whining" about equality.


Yeah, America is so unequal to white folks what with all those minority companies and executives who refuse to hire white people and those restricted social clubs and the white seating in the back of the bus.

Me and the other Asian folks are laughing all the way to the bank about how we're sticking it to the round eyes.
 
2013-05-15 04:05:06 PM  

utah dude: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

a modern, diverse liberal would say: don't you get it dawg? that's not cool anymore. for even saying this i've already labeled you as a rich, white, racist and have made sure you and all your children will never get any scholarships/fellowships/admittance privileges. white is out. it's old, it's dead. it's tired. you're a racist for even being white and you owe non-whites for 100-200 years of economic discrimination. it's time to pay up.


I read an editorial on SFgate one time that said almost exactly that. Written by a youngish white guy. I wish I'd bookmarked it. Really sad to see people who've been brainwashed to hate and advocate so fervently against themselves and anyone who looks like them. I don't know of anything like it anywhere else in the world.
 
2013-05-15 04:05:56 PM  

rewind2846: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.


Contrary to popular belief, assholes come in all colors
 
2013-05-15 04:06:20 PM  

eraser8: tlars699: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people.

White is a race.  Hispanic is an ethnicity that can be of any race.  You can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, an Asian Hispanic and so forth.  Seriously.  On any government form, race and ethnicity are going to be two separate questions.  Example:

[www.pewhispanic.org image 276x367]


Technically, Caucasian/European would work the same way if people care about it that much.  Instead of selecting White/Caucasian, you could put Irish European or French European or English European or whatever.
 
2013-05-15 04:07:25 PM  

Fallout Boy: It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.


Since white folks are a minority in Hawaii (24.7%), you wouldn't have trouble with that state having white-only scholarships, I assume?

Besides, given the rate at which the average American is likely to be multi-racial, anything race-based is pretty ridiculous. Or do you think the scholarships should do a priority queue based on how not-white you are? The girl who's 7/8ths white gets priority over the girl who's half white? Going to go all out with DNA tests or should they just send in a photo for you to judge?
 
2013-05-15 04:07:35 PM  

Joe Blowme: rewind2846: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.

Contrary to popular belief, assholes come in all colors


Until you add bleach into the equation.
 
2013-05-15 04:09:07 PM  
Judging by many of the comments in here my bleeding heart doesn't bleed enough for honkeys. Sorry I'm not "above" others who have been held back and continue to experience a lower quality of life being helped at the expense of those who perpetrate the offenses.If you want this stuff to disappear then do more to help bridge the gap and don't be afraid to address the issues of those within your own race. If not, just take your "logical consistency" and shove it because you're too lazy to deal with reality.
 
2013-05-15 04:09:23 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Fallout Boy: It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

Since white folks are a minority in Hawaii (24.7%), you wouldn't have trouble with that state having white-only scholarships, I assume?

Besides, given the rate at which the average American is likely to be multi-racial, anything race-based is pretty ridiculous. Or do you think the scholarships should do a priority queue based on how not-white you are? The girl who's 7/8ths white gets priority over the girl who's half white? Going to go all out with DNA tests or should they just send in a photo for you to judge?


It bears repeating that there are whole states in the Union where the white population tops 90%.
 
2013-05-15 04:09:32 PM  

Infernalist: jshine: Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?

Are Irish people generally discriminated against in society on the same scale as Hispanics and African Americans?

If so, then...yeah, get those pro-Irish statutes out there and enforced.

If not, then....lol


THIS!  We call them white now!

Back before this PC POLICE malarkey, Irishmen weren't considered on par with genteel men due to their inferior Irish stock.

They even pretend that Italians and Slavs are white now.  It makes me sick!  What's next?  Are we to pretend that New Mexicans are white?
 
2013-05-15 04:09:59 PM  

Joe Blowme: rewind2846: Brick-House: Elegy: There was nothing wrong with this. Why did Columbia cave in to pressure?

Its called political correctness which is really farkin up this country.

"Political correctness" is code for "I'm a white man and I can't get everything I want anymore, nor can I act like an asshole like my father did because I have to be accountable".

It's not correct to be an asshole.

Contrary to popular belief, assholes come in all colors


i789.photobucket.com

Example A.
 
2013-05-15 04:10:57 PM  
F it.  If they are allowed to have "minority" scholarships, they should be allowed to have a "whites only" one.  May I remind you that this is a free country, and since Columbia is a private institution, they should be to do whatever they want.

However, the most most logical act would not give aide to people because of the color of their skin, gender, religious beliefs nor sexual orientation, it should be given to a person with the best vision for a better tomorrow and actually deserve the grant or scholarship.
 
2013-05-15 04:10:58 PM  
ITT: P.C. Nazis defending racism when it's against whites?
 
2013-05-15 04:11:19 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Fallout Boy: It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

Since white folks are a minority in Hawaii (24.7%), you wouldn't have trouble with that state having white-only scholarships, I assume?

Besides, given the rate at which the average American is likely to be multi-racial, anything race-based is pretty ridiculous. Or do you think the scholarships should do a priority queue based on how not-white you are? The girl who's 7/8ths white gets priority over the girl who's half white? Going to go all out with DNA tests or should they just send in a photo for you to judge?


My buddy in school got a minority scholarship for being a white student at a predominantly black public college in the University of North Carolina school system.
 
2013-05-15 04:11:29 PM  
BigNumber12:


As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.

How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?
 
2013-05-15 04:12:09 PM  

Fallout Boy: tlars699: Fallout Boy: 
Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

Crap, I deleted your last post-quote. I see, and concur... Y'know on second thought, I would think that your argument would still stand, as far as inner city schools get crap for assistance until the neighborhood gets gentrified and more people can afford to pay property taxes where the school exists.

Regardless, I can't wait for the whole "I'm Black, he's White, and we all look like Native Americans, so who cares anymore?!" day. :)
That will be an awesome day.
 
2013-05-15 04:12:55 PM  

I Browse: BigNumber12:

As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.

How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?



I could get behind that.  This whole topic is one big clusterfark.
 
2013-05-15 04:13:16 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Infernalist: jshine: Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?

Are Irish people generally discriminated against in society on the same scale as Hispanics and African Americans?

If so, then...yeah, get those pro-Irish statutes out there and enforced.

If not, then....lol

THIS!  We call them white now!

Back before this PC POLICE malarkey, Irishmen weren't considered on par with genteel men due to their inferior Irish stock.

They even pretend that Italians and Slavs are white now.  It makes me sick!  What's next?  Are we to pretend that New Mexicans are white?


Well, if the "out of africa" theory proves true, we are all africans
 
2013-05-15 04:14:22 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Fallout Boy: It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

Since white folks are a minority in Hawaii (24.7%), you wouldn't have trouble with that state having white-only scholarships, I assume?

Besides, given the rate at which the average American is likely to be multi-racial, anything race-based is pretty ridiculous. Or do you think the scholarships should do a priority queue based on how not-white you are? The girl who's 7/8ths white gets priority over the girl who's half white? Going to go all out with DNA tests or should they just send in a photo for you to judge?

It bears repeating that there are whole states in the Union where the white population tops 90%.


I should have worded that as "increase in the rate at which."
 
2013-05-15 04:14:41 PM  

JohnnyRebel88: F it.  If they are allowed to have "minority" scholarships, they should be allowed to have a "whites only" one.  May I remind you that this is a free country, and since Columbia is a private institution, they should be to do whatever they want.

However, the most most logical act would not give aide to people because of the color of their skin, gender, religious beliefs nor sexual orientation, it should be given to a person with the best vision for a better tomorrow and actually deserve the grant or scholarship.


Truly, spoken like someone living in an ideal world.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.  We live in a world where people get rejected for things that they've earned/deserve because of their skin/ethnicity/religion/sex.

So, until we achieve that ideal world, we have to somehow make up for the assholes in the system who don't like treating people equally.

If you want to blame someone, blame Bob in Human Relations who won't hire a black man/woman.
 
2013-05-15 04:15:25 PM  
Joe Blowme:

[www.inquisitr.com image 500x375]

I like your style. Accuse me of racism, and when I ask you to justify that accusation, hit me with a Welcome to Fark meme.

sharecovers.com
 
2013-05-15 04:15:35 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Yeah, America is so unequal to white folks what with all those minority companies and executives who refuse to hire white people and those restricted social clubs and the white seating in the back of the bus.


So, you've identified certain groups who are not allowed to advocate for equality or call out injustice when they see it, because of the color of their skin. That says a lot about you.
 
2013-05-15 04:16:27 PM  
FTA: "We do not feel we are justified in depriving some of our students of the benefits of restricted grants simply because they are not available to everyone," he said, according to the Post.


So we should abolish this then, right?

multivu.prnewswire.com
 
2013-05-15 04:16:46 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".

Which is a stupid argument... Pendulums are supposed to swing both ways.  A minority group should have no right to complain about whitey getting his own scholarship if they get to have one for their particular group.


It will be ok for whitey to have his own scholarship in 2050 when whitey is the minority?
 
2013-05-15 04:18:09 PM  

I Browse: BigNumber12:


As long as equality is being actively eroded, you get to put up with our "whining." Deal with it the same way you already seem to deal with non-white "whining" about equality.

How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?



Good luck with that :-)
 
2013-05-15 04:19:07 PM  

xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: xmasbaby: Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you also think that higher tax rates for the rich is class-warfare and class discrimination. Listen, our civilization have many measures to balance the inherent inequality in our society, and since we will never live in a post-racial world, granting scholarship to minorities is one of them. White people does not have it better than minorities, accept your genetic lottery and stop whining like an ungrateful brat.

Just to be clear, and end this once and for all... are you saying that using a person's race and/or gender is or isn't an acceptable way to award academic scholarships?

It is acceptable. And since it is painfully obvious where you are going with this, no, it is not racism when all you are trying to do is to even out the imbalanced playing field to begin. Let me know when we live in a world where minorities and women aren't discriminated in the school and work place. I won't be holding my breath.

I have some GREAT news for you!  I just did a highly scientific study of pulling up Google, entering the phrase "percent women in ______  school " and quick ...


Yes. Change them to "Single Parent"- talk about the least support system on any effing campus. Non Trad support, MY ASS.
 
2013-05-15 04:19:15 PM  
Great. Now white people are going to have to start pretending they're black so they can get a scholarship.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-15 04:19:43 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: Representative of the unwashed masses: Donnchadha: dj_bigbird: Does Columbia have scholarships for African-American students? Hispanic?

That's not "discriminating based on race", that's "empowering a minority".

Which is a stupid argument... Pendulums are supposed to swing both ways.  A minority group should have no right to complain about whitey getting his own scholarship if they get to have one for their particular group.

It will be ok for whitey to have his own scholarship in 2050 when whitey is the minority?


If he were a minority, then sure.

But, he won't be.  Despite the hysterical fears of a few, the Caucasian population in this country will 'never' be a minority.

Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.
 
2013-05-15 04:20:38 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've always wanted to open a restaurant named "Whites Only", and have everything inside be white. Walls, table cloths, etc.

Then on opening night I'd only invite non-whites.

I think I planned on masturbating on something too, it was an art project. You have to masturbate or it's not art.


That's pretty funny.

JesseL: I wonder how it would have played out if a black student applied for a "whites only" scholarship (or vice versa)?


I'm sure this has been covered in the thread, but:

www.annalsofamericus.com
Is intrigued by your idea and would like to subs yadda yadda
 
2013-05-15 04:20:42 PM  

Mattyb710: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but your post is forcing me to reply.

Are you actually making that argument that because a certain group of people have been discriminated against in the past that it is acceptable for them to discriminate against others now?


YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise.  Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"   The answer, of course, is yes.  Justice requires it.   An important part of equal treatment under the law  is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated.   You don't get to go "yeah that was wrong, my bad, I'll just stop doing that. So we're cool now, right?"  You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.
 
2013-05-15 04:21:35 PM  
I'm going to create a scholarship for Dungeons and Dragons playing fans of Gabriel-era Genesis who like to drink lots of milk.
 
2013-05-15 04:22:10 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: To be fair, whites are a minority in Colombia.

Wrong.  Those space shuttles were filled with white people.


Well yeah, but they're black now...
 
2013-05-15 04:22:57 PM  

Joe Blowme: Rapmaster2000: Infernalist: jshine: Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?

Are Irish people generally discriminated against in society on the same scale as Hispanics and African Americans?

If so, then...yeah, get those pro-Irish statutes out there and enforced.

If not, then....lol

THIS!  We call them white now!

Back before this PC POLICE malarkey, Irishmen weren't considered on par with genteel men due to their inferior Irish stock.

They even pretend that Italians and Slavs are white now.  It makes me sick!  What's next?  Are we to pretend that New Mexicans are white?

Well, if the "out of africa" theory proves true, we are all africans


Nonsense!  God placed all races in their proper location.  Ask yourself this?  How could the races have "evolved" to look they way they do, when the world is only 6000 years old?  Have you seen a Chinaman evolve to be white because he lives in a white territory like Montana?  Have you, sir?

No, you have not.  I'd like to hear the Miscengenators and Darwinists answer that one!
 
2013-05-15 04:22:58 PM  
Eh, I can't find a real problem with scholarships for whites only considering how many asinine scholarships with insane requirements like height, weight, left handedness, race, gender, sexual preference, hobbies locality, etc. etc. etc.  Land of the free, home of people just throwing money away on students for arbitrary reasons other than grades and need.
 
2013-05-15 04:23:24 PM  

WhippingBoy: I'm going to create a scholarship for Dungeons and Dragons playing fans of Gabriel-era Genesis who like to drink lots of milk.


...chocolate milk?
 
2013-05-15 04:23:48 PM  

eraser8: tlars699: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people.

White is a race.  Hispanic is an ethnicity that can be of any race.  You can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, an Asian Hispanic and so forth.  Seriously.  On any government form, race and ethnicity are going to be two separate questions.  Example:

[www.pewhispanic.org image 276x367]


Okay, granted. Now, the question remains that the poster I replied to saying, White is not an ethnicity, and does not deserve their own scholarships- does this person still have a point? If they do, then why not based on race? Poor people abound in the white community; could we have a scholarship that caters to them specifically?
 
2013-05-15 04:24:26 PM  

TheGregiss: You know what. This bothers me. You would think scholarships shouldbbe doled out on academic merit, not the color of ones skin.

"B buh muh oppressed races."

Oh blow me, Im of Irish descent, they were enslaved and kicked around pretty much forever but we don't have people of irish heritage only scholarships. Cause that would be white, and that's apparently bad.

Goddamn these people for making me even share a centimeters worth of ideological similarity to some stormfront asshat.


Ever consider that maybe you're more racist then you'd like to admit?

CSB:
Former co-worker once told me about a girl from London he dated back in the 60's.
"Oh Humberto, I really think it's quite barbaric how you Yanks treat the Blacks here in the States.  It's just simply atrocious."
"You won't get any argument out of me on that, but what about how the Irish have been treated by the British?
"Oh, you don't understand, Humberto.  The Irish are stupid."
 
2013-05-15 04:24:26 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

A hell of a lot more than in Idaho.


Dunno...we had them up in Moscow, ID, when I was growing up.

Had to. That football ain't gonna run itself...

/Vandals!
 
2013-05-15 04:25:17 PM  
TO THERED-HEADEDLEAGUE:
On account of the bequest of the late Ezekiah Hopkins, of Lebanon, Pennsylvania, U. S. A., there is now another vacancy open which entitles a member of the League to a salary of £4 a week for purely nominal services. All red-headed men who are sound in body and mind, and above the age of twenty-one years, are eligible. Apply in person on Monday, at eleven o'clock, to Duncan Ross, at the offices of the League, 7 Pope's Court, Fleet Street.
 
2013-05-15 04:25:49 PM  

tlars699: eraser8: tlars699: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people.

White is a race.  Hispanic is an ethnicity that can be of any race.  You can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, an Asian Hispanic and so forth.  Seriously.  On any government form, race and ethnicity are going to be two separate questions.  Example:

[www.pewhispanic.org image 276x367]

Okay, granted. Now, the question remains that the poster I replied to saying, White is not an ethnicity, and does not deserve their own scholarships- does this person still have a point? If they do, then why not based on race? Poor people abound in the white community; could we have a scholarship that caters to them specifically?


Sure, you can label it based on their region of origin.

Like, from my perspective, you could have a Scholarship that could only be given to someone from the Piney Woods region of East Texas.  Mostly white(not completely), very poor on average, and they could use a hand in getting their kids into college.

Targeting poor communities for scholarships is a well-established tradition, you know.
 
2013-05-15 04:25:56 PM  

randomjsa: I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.


Cool can we get rid of scholarships based on sports too and make it completely academic based and give admittance only based on merit not on ability to pay or if you parents donated money or went to the school?
 
2013-05-15 04:25:59 PM  

Infernalist: It bears repeating that there are whole states in the Union where the white population tops 90%.


You know, and with an active advertising campaign, Maine might be able to convince more black people to move there. They could even double their black population. That way Steve could have a friend!
 
2013-05-15 04:26:45 PM  

WhippingBoy: TO THERED-HEADEDLEAGUE:
On account of the bequest of the late Ezekiah Hopkins, of Lebanon, Pennsylvania, U. S. A., there is now another vacancy open which entitles a member of the League to a salary of £4 a week for purely nominal services. All red-headed men who are sound in body and mind, and above the age of twenty-one years, are eligible. Apply in person on Monday, at eleven o'clock, to Duncan Ross, at the offices of the League, 7 Pope's Court, Fleet Street.


That shop owner was the most naive idiot of all time.
 
2013-05-15 04:28:44 PM  

jshine: Magorn: I'll just quote LBJ on this one: "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

...so, because the Irish were once discriminated against, we need to maintain pro-Irish affirmative action policies indefinitely?


No, because as i said in detail above, the Irish quickly became a majority rather than a minority, and because they weren't systemically disenfranchised they were able to use that status to right those wrongs on thier own (Tammany Hall, the ranks of the NYPD, NYFD, CPD and FD, the Boston PD and FD etc etc provided them with more than enough "affirmative action" to redress any past slights)   Same thing with blacks: Once we reach a point where they've been NOT discriminated against legally for as long as they WERE discriminated against legally, say 150-200 years,  I'm all good with ending every affirmative action program of any kind.
 
2013-05-15 04:29:13 PM  

Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.


It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.
 
2013-05-15 04:29:24 PM  

I Browse: Joe Blowme:

[www.inquisitr.com image 500x375]

I like your style. Accuse me of racism, and when I ask you to justify that accusation, hit me with a Welcome to Fark meme.


It's wrong that I searched up the thread and hoped you were a racist, so I could slam you for it.  When I discovered you were just tired of the privileged whining about how there aren't systems in place to address the societal imbalances that don't exist against them.

It was hardly an edgy position you were taking, and you still got hit with the "how dare you complain about my complaints" type bullshiat that just confirms how incredibly blind to privilege a lot of people are.
 
2013-05-15 04:29:59 PM  

Magorn: You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.


No one disagrees with that.  What we disagree is how long those advantages ought to last.  When your family goes back multiple generations more than the families that you're currently demanding the advantage from, the newer arrivals aren't generally eager to continue paying for the crimes of people who just happened to share their skin tones, especially if you're descended from one of the many groups that were treated as bad or worse.

//Mix of slavic and Irish, personally, and only four generations from immigrants
///Father paid his way through college and medical school shoveling coal in an iron forge and with my mom's job as a grocery clerk
 
2013-05-15 04:30:06 PM  

mike_the_engineer: So we should abolish this then, right?


You don't actually have to be black to get one of their scholarships.
 
2013-05-15 04:31:07 PM  

This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.


So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?
 
2013-05-15 04:32:39 PM  

eraser8: mike_the_engineer: So we should abolish this then, right?

You don't actually have to be black to get one of their scholarships.


That said, white south-africans who move to the US applying for "african-american" scholarships leads to some really confused expressions.
 
2013-05-15 04:33:06 PM  
 Meh, I've come  across enough grants that I didn't qualify for based on me being  white (first two pages of entries on CC website) that I'm kinda suprised this one exsist, And that anyone has their panties  in a wad over it.

Hypnozombie
 
2013-05-15 04:33:57 PM  
Complaining about political correctness = the white man's victim card.
 
2013-05-15 04:34:15 PM  

Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?


There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay
 
2013-05-15 04:35:16 PM  

Latinwolf: Complaining about political correctness = the white man's victim card.


Kill all the white man
 
2013-05-15 04:36:25 PM  
BigNumber12  Sir Eatton HoggYeah, America is so unequal to white folks what with all those minority companies and executives who refuse to hire white people and those restricted social clubs and the white seating in the back of the bus.

So, you've identified certain groups who are not allowed to advocate for equality or call out injustice when they see it, because of the color of their skin. That says a lot about you.


The idea that an elimination of a race-based scholarship offered by the respected university (as opposed to a private scholarship which might be acceptable) is some kind of injustice for whites is nonsense.

Any other issues or complaints you wish to note that are so unfair to whites?  The existence of BET perhaps?
 
2013-05-15 04:36:56 PM  

The Third Man: endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.

True, but he had a better mustache, so that's got to count for something.  And I suppose he wasn't actively trying to kill them all, just wasn't particularly upset if they died in horrible ways.

/But you wonder:  how would a Hitler Scholarship be received?
//Also:  Rhodes is one of the few people you can compare to Hitler without Godwining the thread


He wasn't racist, he just hated his parents for naming him Cecil.
 
2013-05-15 04:37:08 PM  
ikanreed:

It's wrong that I searched up the thread and hoped you were a racist, so I could slam you for it.  When I discovered you were just tired of the privileged whining about how there aren't systems in place to address the societal imbalances that don't exist against them.

It was hardly an edgy position you were taking, and you still got hit with the "how dare you complain about my complaints" type bullshiat that just confirms how incredibly blind to privilege a lot of people are.



Thank you. You stated my position a lot more eloquently than I did.
 
2013-05-15 04:37:39 PM  

Infernalist: tlars699: eraser8: tlars699: the gov't seems to think that white is a race & different ethnicity than "Hispanic"/Latin American people.

White is a race.  Hispanic is an ethnicity that can be of any race.  You can be a white Hispanic, a black Hispanic, an Asian Hispanic and so forth.  Seriously.  On any government form, race and ethnicity are going to be two separate questions.  Example:

[www.pewhispanic.org image 276x367]

Okay, granted. Now, the question remains that the poster I replied to saying, White is not an ethnicity, and does not deserve their own scholarships- does this person still have a point? If they do, then why not based on race? Poor people abound in the white community; could we have a scholarship that caters to them specifically?

Sure, you can label it based on their region of origin.

Like, from my perspective, you could have a Scholarship that could only be given to someone from the Piney Woods region of East Texas.  Mostly white(not completely), very poor on average, and they could use a hand in getting their kids into college.

Targeting poor communities for scholarships is a well-established tradition, you know.


Huh. I did not know. That's pretty cool actually, as then *anyone* from that community could go to school, provided they lived in the area and fulfilled grade requirements.
 
2013-05-15 04:37:46 PM  
I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.
 
2013-05-15 04:38:01 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Gosh, I didn't realize that America was such an unfair country for whites men.

Thank de lawd for Fark.com


FTFY.
 
2013-05-15 04:38:04 PM  

tlars699: Poor people abound in the white community; could we have a scholarship that caters to them specifically?


Hell, you could have a scholarship that caters to  rich white people.  There'd be nothing illegal about it.  The problem in this case isn't that the scholarship is exclusively for white students; the problem is that Columbia can't administer the scholarship under the conditions set forth in the grant.  That is, the University itself can't discriminate based on race.  And, yes, that would extend to scholarships for blacks or Hispanics.

Outside groups are perfectly free to set up scholarships for Columbia students that are racially restrictive.  And, that includes scholarships that are exclusively for whites.
 
2013-05-15 04:38:34 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay


But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?
 
2013-05-15 04:38:46 PM  

tlars699: Yes. Change them to "Single Parent"- talk about the least support system on any effing campus. Non Trad support, MY ASS.


That single parent thing is, with a few exception, largely preventable on an individual level and even if it is not there is no reason for a special support system for them.  They are a big enough pain in the ass in the military do we need to cater to them in the private sector to.
 
2013-05-15 04:39:37 PM  

tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?


Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.
 
2013-05-15 04:39:50 PM  

I Browse: Black guy here. Keep the damn scholarship. In fact...let white people have "whites only" restaurants, country clubs, proms, churches, and whatever else they want. I honestly don't care.

But please, for the love of God, stop with the "B-b-but...it's okay for BLACKS! And LATINOS! And ASIANS! HARUMPH! And oh yeah, why is there a B.E.T. but no W.E.T.??"

I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


Keep it up men! We've got em on the ropes!
 
2013-05-15 04:41:03 PM  
First we allow women in 1983. Now minorities can get financial aid?!

Alma Mater's really gone to shiat
 
2013-05-15 04:41:37 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were ...


How do you know how I, or anyone started out in life?  If my great great great grandfather was the biggest slave owner in Virginia, and my great grandfather was a World War 1 war profiteer who was grand wizard of the KKK, and my grandfather invested his inheritance in stocks that skyrocketed while personally discriminating whenever possible, and my father knocked up his high school girlfriend who secretly gave me up to an orphanage, then what farking advantage do I have?  None of the supposed benefits and advantages that my racist ancestors accrued to me  Yet racial preferences would potentially put a black kid whose father is a doctor ahead of me in line for a spot in college.  If we are helping the disadvantaged, shouldn't we look at their current state in life rather than the average state of their "race"?  A white kid raised in poverty in a single parent household is no better off than a black kid raised in poverty in a single parent household.
 
2013-05-15 04:42:27 PM  

rewind2846: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.


To some people, a world where the non-caucasian population is larger than the caucasian population is a world where white people are a minority.
 
2013-05-15 04:44:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparen ...


Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?
 
2013-05-15 04:44:45 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?


You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too
 
2013-05-15 04:45:05 PM  

I want your skull: Great. Now white people are going to have to start pretending they're black so they can get a scholarship.
[i.imgur.com image 720x453]


Damn you!!!!
 
2013-05-15 04:46:29 PM  

exick: potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery, or theology

So, this lady wanted no lawyers or doctors moving back to Iowa; just engineers and baristas, apparently.


In other words, baristas.

/Because all of the engineers are Asian! LOL
 
2013-05-15 04:46:58 PM  
images.pushsquare.com

The school in question

/what's wrong with being sexy?

 
2013-05-15 04:47:00 PM  

Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.


The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.
 
2013-05-15 04:47:04 PM  
teenage mutant ninja rapist:

Reverse discrimination? Nope I wouldnt call it that.
just plain old hypocrisy. Its 2013 nobody going to college had to sit at the back of the bus


Really? I graduated from college in 2012. I'm 51, and was born in the deep south, north carolina to be exact, in 1962. I'm sure there are more like me, and some older as well. "Nobody" is a pretty definitive word... I suggest you do some research first.

Also, I'm sure the college students you speak of (those just below drinking age in your stereotype) have parents and grandparent who can tell them first hand what it was like, as my father (in his 70's) has told me. Better than a history book, and much more complex, I assure you.
 
2013-05-15 04:47:57 PM  

rewind2846: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.


Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)
 
2013-05-15 04:50:07 PM  

I Browse: How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?


Sounds good.

I Browse: I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.


Oops.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:02 PM  

Magorn: Columbia should just hand out the scholarship to whomever they want and if anyone objects simply cite Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948)  which basically said that there was nothing that stopped private parties from MAKING racially restrictive covenants on real estate (a clause in a home sale agreement stipulating that the house couldn't be re-sold to a non-white person), but for the courts to ENFORCE them would require the court to violate the 14th amendment and so they would not even hear lawsuits arising from violations of those clauses


That's what I thought. Racist provisions in contracts are automatically null and void, even between private parties with no government sponsorship. Racist contractual terms can be ignored, because if some asshat wants to sue to enforce them they have nowhere to go. Just pretend it doesn't say anything about whites-only.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:21 PM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?


That, Detective, is the right question.
 
2013-05-15 04:51:25 PM  

give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?


One of my direct ancestors from scotland was shipped over here as an indentured servant in the colonial period. He had to fight for the Brits because his master was a loyalist. The story goes that he was able to escape to the colonial side when the war turned and the brit sympathizers were run out of town.

/indentured servitude was pretty much slavery for white people.
/csb
 
2013-05-15 04:51:35 PM  

jigger: I Browse: How about no whining at all...from anyone? Too much to ask?

Sounds good.

I Browse: I can't take it anymore. If I have to listen to one more white person whine about reverse racism and double standards and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and UNCF, etc...my ears will start bleeding.

Oops.


Whineception.

/Bwooooong
 
2013-05-15 04:52:01 PM  

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


Because white people never need help paying for college. And why should they? Everybody knows that tuition is cheap as hell these days. And it isn't "reverse-racism." It is just racism.
 
2013-05-15 04:52:04 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I want your skull: Great. Now white people are going to have to start pretending they're black so they can get a scholarship.
[i.imgur.com image 720x453]

Damn you!!!!


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-15 04:53:08 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too


No, you're grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.
 
2013-05-15 04:53:30 PM  

hasty ambush: tlars699: Yes. Change them to "Single Parent"- talk about the least support system on any effing campus. Non Trad support, MY ASS.

That single parent thing is, with a few exception, largely preventable on an individual level and even if it is not there is no reason for a special support system for them.  They are a big enough pain in the ass in the military do we need to cater to them in the private sector to.


1. College is the private sector?
2. Women based groups were all super supportive of everyone, except pregnant chicks/single fathers trying to better themselves.
3. They are not largely preventable with abusive farkwads- notsoCSB
4. Oh noes! They're everywhere! Do you have to raise a kid by yourself? No? Do you have to help babysit the kid? No? Then eat a bowl of badger knuckles.
 
2013-05-15 04:53:57 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too

No, you're not grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


FTFM.  stupid internet, not reading my mind properly.
 
2013-05-15 04:54:32 PM  

Magorn: Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"


Actually it couldn't be re-phrased that way, since the white kids being discriminated against didn't do anything to somehow deserve "justice" being taken out on them. Nice relevance fallacy, though - you even managed to sprinkle in some appeal to emotion. I'll know to look for dishonesty from you in the future.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:38 PM  

MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.


Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:42 PM  

Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?
 
2013-05-15 04:57:00 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.

The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.


You make some very good points.  I'd argue that racial preferences in such things as college admissions (to the extent they exist) magnify the negative impact on race relations because of the number of people who percieve that they, personally, have been disadvantaged via racial preference.  What I mean by that is granting one member of a select group a preference in admissions may displace one non-member who otherwise would otherwise have been admitted if it weren't based on preference but on merit alone.  But there are 1,000 non-members who might think "hey, if it weren't for affirmative action, I would have gotten in".  In other words, 999 white people think they got screwed over by a policy preferential to blacks, when they wouldn't have gotten in anyway.
 
2013-05-15 04:59:32 PM  
jigger:

Oops.

By asking others to stop whining, I'm actually whining myself. Got it.
 
2013-05-15 05:00:53 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?


Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.
 
2013-05-15 05:01:14 PM  

Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.


What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?
 
2013-05-15 05:01:48 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: the money is in the banana stand: Bumblefark: I'd take people who get worked up in knot about "reverse racism" a lot more seriously if they ever had anything to say about...you know, the problem with racism as it actually exists in the US.

/if you seriously don't understand what's wrong with a "whites only" anything, you're a moral retard.

The problem with actual overt racism and true racist thoughts bred from ignorance is more or less not existent today. Racism, in its most common form today is simple prejudice born not from ignorance but from experience. I would wager that few people truly believe skin color makes you inferior/superior, but rather identify race so closely with culture now that prejudice or contempt of certain ideologies and behavior gets mistaken for racism. The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships. The double standard is what is frustrating for people, and until that double standard is dissolved, true progress cannot be made. Make not mistake, people may have shed their physical shackles, but as long as you use the race card when foul play does not exist, you are perpetuating the problem as you are now a slave to those with your "best interest at heart."

I am not dismissing that there exists true racism still in America, and such instances should be corrected - however, keeping the double standard in place is no advantageous to that cause.

You make some very good points.  I'd argue that racial preferences in such things as college admissions (to the extent they exist) magnify the negative impact on race relations because of the number of people who percieve that they, personally, have been disadvantaged via racial preference.  What I mean by that is granting one member of a select group a preference in admissions may displace one non-member who otherwise would otherwise have been admitted if it weren't based on pre ...


I like your males assuming it's because of a black dude, rather than a white chick. lol
 
2013-05-15 05:01:49 PM  

I Browse: jigger:

Oops.

By asking others to stop whining, I'm actually whining myself. Got it.


No, you were whining about other people whining.
 
2013-05-15 05:01:55 PM  

Magorn: lennavan: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Fair enough, all black college kids applying for scholarships who had to sit at the back of the bus, or use the back door at a lunch counter, or who was deprived the right to vote should get a scholarship.  Everyone else should be on equal footing.  Deal?

I'll just quote LBJ on this one:  "If you make one contestant start running a race in leg irons and then suddenly remove them at the half-way point, you have not suddenly made the contest fair"

Counter-offer: once minorities have been free of institutionalized and legal discrimination for a full 200 years (half the time they experienced it)  We'll call it even and ban ANY discrimination on the bais of Race, Mkay?

Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU  and where you start out in life?


How about great great great grandparents(might be even one more generation)? So after 7 generations you still can't do something for yourself? Damn.
 
2013-05-15 05:02:31 PM  

badaboom: Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.

So you failed history? Tell us, why should someone whose family was not in America have to "pay" for the sins of those in the past?


No one is asking you to "pay", what they are asking you to do is realize that you have those advantages and quitcherb*chin. As a white male (if that is what you are) you are still at the top of the socioeconomic ladder just about everywhere. Lowest unemployment rates, lowest underemployment rates, highest incomes, etc etc etc. The whining I get from white males is usually due to the fact that nowadays they can't have 100% of everything, and have to settle for 99% instead.

Boo-farking-hoo. Welcome to the new world.
 
2013-05-15 05:02:38 PM  
I see this is the thread where losers who made poor life decisions blame PC for keeping them down. Cool
 
2013-05-15 05:03:49 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?

Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.


I don't know what world you're living in where white people "for the most part" say fark you to differently colored people. Or where all white people (and no people of no other color) are "The Man".
 
2013-05-15 05:04:26 PM  

Magorn: YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise. Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?" The answer, of course, is yes. Justice requires it. An important part of equal treatment under the law is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated. You don't get to go "yeah that was wrong, my bad, I'll just stop doing that. So we're cool now, right?" You actually have to try to fix the thing you did wrong, and that might mean giving AD-vantages to those you previously DIS-advantaged.


First off, you are comparing apples to elephants. A more accurate way to compare your two scenarios is to punish Ariel Castro's (imaginary) grandchildren because of a crime he a committed.

Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?
 
2013-05-15 05:04:43 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

OMG, who did that to them?



James II, Charles I,  and Oliver Cromwell.
 
2013-05-15 05:06:58 PM  

Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?


Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?
 
2013-05-15 05:07:33 PM  

Infernalist: rewind2846: tlars699: Now, I've been told that any person of non-caucasoid descent is currently a minority, and that in a few decades the caucasoids will end up being the minority.

Does this mean that all the "minority" scholarships will then be given to the true minority? Or will they be rewritten?

Bullsh*t. "Less than 50% of the population" does not mean "minority", unless what you are counting are "white people" and "non-white people".

Non-Hispanic whites are 63.7% of the U.S. population as of 2010. Get back to me when that number drops to something less than either blacks, asians, hispanics or any other non-white groups. When the percentages of any one of those groups is greater than non-hispanic whites, you might have a case for being a "minority". As of today it's the other way around.

It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

To some people, a world where the non-caucasian population is larger than the caucasian population is a world where white people are a minority.


I already referenced that... it will be a "long time", but, not that long.... Latinos are expected to be the majority in the U.S. sometime by the 2040's.     As I asked... are any scholarships specifically for Latinos a "bad" or illegal thing then at that point?
 
2013-05-15 05:09:05 PM  

The Third Man: endmile: The Third Man: I know of a Catholic-run university where one of their alumni wanted to give a big scholarship which would only be available to non-Catholic students.  I'm sure that was fun to explain to the university president (who was, of course, a priest).  Apparently they were able to talk the alumnus out of that stipulation.

Along the lines of this scholarship...you know, the Rhodes Scholarship was once only available to white students, as well.  Cecil Rhodes was racist even by the fairly racist standards of his time and social class.

Calling Cecil Rhodes racist is like saying Hitler kind of disliked Jewish people.

True, but he had a better mustache, so that's got to count for something.  And I suppose he wasn't actively trying to kill them all, just wasn't particularly upset if they died in horrible ways.

/But you wonder:  how would a Hitler Scholarship be received?
//Also:  Rhodes is one of the few people you can compare to Hitler without Godwining the thread


You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. I don't like to Godwin, but I felt it was justified in this case. Thank you for your support.
 
2013-05-15 05:09:29 PM  

give me doughnuts: HotWingConspiracy: give me doughnuts: Magorn: yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country, Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

Remember the thousands of Irish that were shipped over as slaves during the Colonial period?

OMG, who did that to them?


James II, Charles I,  and Oliver Cromwell.



Forgot link.
 
2013-05-15 05:10:32 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.

What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?


Well, let's compare the two, shall we?

1) American born Tyrone.  He was born into a poverty stricken neighborhood in south central LA.  Rundown school, no jobs once he hits 15 or so, no real chance of getting to college since his grades suck because the teachers are more concerned with surviving the day than inspiring him to learn.  To him, America sucks.  He's done with school, no college, no job, so his choices are to live at home with mom on welfare, or go deal drugs or something illegal to make enough money to be on his own.  He's a willing participant in an urban culture that disdains education, hard work and playing things straight.  His most likely outcome will be prison or death or prison and then death.

2) Nigerian born Jamal.  He was born into a poverty stricken village in Niger.  No chance at college for anyone, no chance for anything really, but unlike most of his companions, he has the drive to succeed.  Enough to leave his country of birth and travel across the world to a nation completely and utterly alien to his own.  Since he's got the grades to get into college, he gets the grants he needs, thanks to black-only scholarships.  His mere presence in America is a testament of what he'll do to succeed.

You see, most Nigerians are more like Tyrone.  They don't try hard enough to survive.  But, Jamal, simply by GETTING HERE, has proven that he has more internal fortitude than most urban kids.

Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

But then, if all of us had to start off in a different country and had to immigrate to America in order to partake in its bounties, I suspect we'd be considerably below our 330 million population.
 
2013-05-15 05:13:13 PM  

Fallout Boy: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted. These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

I've always wondered if mouth-breathers like you

...


Wait, because I'm against using race in decisions, I'm a mouth-breather?

Wow.  You know, I had a dream.  It is deeply rooted in the American Dream.  I had a dream that one day we will live in a nation where my children will be judged by the color of their skin, not by the content of their character.  Turns out, if they apply for these scholarships, they can realize that dream!
 
2013-05-15 05:14:55 PM  
tlars699:
It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)


More than a century. And even when (if) that ever happens, we must still ask the question - "who will still hold the power, money and control?"
Numbers don't mean everything.

Besides, let's just assume this "catastrophic" event happens in the next 200 years or so... since hispanic populations are growing the quickest, let's assume they will be the first to outnumber whites (blacks 13%, asians 10%, non-hispanic whites 36%, hispanics 37%, others 5% in 2213 using numbers pulled out of my ass).
Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?
 
2013-05-15 05:16:38 PM  

rewind2846: Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?


tatsuma and bevets, mainly.
 
2013-05-15 05:17:29 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.

Wouldn't that mean that there is no majority race/skin color/whatever?

Nope, but it 'would' mean that the white population would theoretically have to sit up and listen when the combined minorities spoke in a single voice.

Right now, they've historically gave them all a big 'fark you' and ignored their complaints.  For the most part.

Now, should the white population succeed in courting enough minorities races into joining the social whole(Which I will henceforth call 'The Man'), then they can continue to safely ignore the 'other' minority races because they still outnumber them.

This could be part of the thought process that plays into why some part of the GOP has put forth such a strong effort for the Hispanic population and still steadfastly ignore the other, less populous, races.

I don't know what world you're living in where white people "for the most part" say fark you to differently colored people. Or where all white people (and no people of no other color) are "The Man".


No, you misunderstand me.  The social whole is 'The Man'.  That's the consumerist based capitalist culture where what you 'have' is more important than what you are or who you are.  That's the 'culture' that most White American clings to.  There are a few from other minority races who buy into that culture, but nothing to the degree that white America does.

And yeah, historically, American culture has thumbed its nose at minority concerns and told them to go shove it.  Not in words, but in actions.

It's the way our society 'demands' illegal immigrant labor in order to sustain low cost for food, but actively punishes illegal immigrants when they catch them.

It's the way our society demands illegal drugs from foreign sources and then actively wages war on those same sources.

It's the way that we've systematically ignored black concerns and problems for nearly a hundred years after the Civil War until the Civil Rights movement succeeded.
 
2013-05-15 05:18:56 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: MJMaloney187: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: How come Asians don't seem to have all these problems like blacks do? They came to this country and were abused and rose above it. Why are we still hearing about blacks? How much help do they need and how much longer will they "need" it?

That, Detective, is the right question.

Beeeecause, the Asian population in this country wasn't subjected to a few hundred years of slavery followed by 150 years of institutionalized racism?

Granted, they had their fair share of white people shiatting on them in the last hundred years or so, but never to the degree that the black population suffered.

And those that immigrated over after about 1960 or so got to enjoy the somewhat 'easier' playing field that the black-led Civil Rights movement arranged.

What about black people who are descendants of "recent" immigrants and are not descended from slaves or whose parents were not at all subject to Jim Crow or anything like that? Are they in a class or status different from other black Americans?

Well, let's compare the two, shall we?

1) American born Tyrone.  He was born into a poverty stricken neighborhood in south central LA.  Rundown school, no jobs once he hits 15 or so, no real chance of getting to college since his grades suck because the teachers are more concerned with surviving the day than inspiring him to learn.  To him, America sucks.  He's done with school, no college, no job, so his choices are to live at home with mom on welfare, or go deal drugs or something illegal to make enough money to be on his own.  He's a willing participant in an urban culture that disdains education, hard work and playing things straight.  His most likely outcome will be prison or death or prison and then death.

2) Nigerian born Jamal.  He was born into a poverty stricken village in Niger.  No chance at college for anyone, no chance for anything really, but unlike most of his companions, he has the drive to succeed.  Enough t ...


My thought process to your post: "Why is it okay for black immigrants to count and get black only scholarships, since American Whiteys didn't keep down their ancestors and waaaaaaaaaaiit.... <.< yeah I'm done here.

We do give them hella aid for their countries, though- through both public and private means.
 
2013-05-15 05:20:28 PM  

Magorn: Is it really so impossble to understand that if your great-granparents were property and had no assets to pass down to thier children, and your grandparents weren;t allowed enough schooling to be more than barely literate, adn your parents were denied access to the best jobs and professions and denied promotions and opportunities based on thier race that that might also affect YOU and where you start out in life?


Great-grandparents my ass, you don't even need that long to get out of the institutionalized discrimination.

Is it really so impossible for you to understand, that if your grandparents immigrated here with absolutely nothing, worked their asses off and made their kids go to school, that in a single generation you could have access to anything and everything?

Do you know how many stories there are of people growing up with nothing, working hard and ultimately becoming successful?  Do you know who the current POTUS is?

How long are you gonna whine?  My great-grandma experienced racism, therefore I deserve special treatment?  How about no.  Work harder jack-ass.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:03 PM  

Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: This text is now purple: Infernalist: Now, at some point, the sum 'total' of all minorities in this country, COMBINED, will be more than the Caucasian population, but that's not the same as being a minority.

It is, but don't let that stop you.

\The opposite of minority is majority, not plurality.

So, by your reasoning, once the non-white population is outnumbers the white population, then the white population is a minority.

And if that's true, then in that America where the white population is a minority race, what's the Majority race?

There is none.

Noun majority (plural majorities): More than half (50%) of some group

/Welcome to English
//Please enjoy your stay

But, the white population 'is' the majority race in this country today.  Does that change when it's no longer the majority race?

You're asking if a majority stop being a majority when it stops being a majority?

In the actual meaning of the word, yes. In the "arbitrarily defined something something social justice power levels" meaning? Doubtful. There could be one white guy left in 2090 and the people who subscribe to that sort of definition would still blame him for humanity's ills.

/Probably posthumously too

No, you're grasping the point.  As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America.  It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably.  As far as we're concerned, at least.  That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America.  The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


I can't find any published definition of 'majority' that matches what you're going with there. That word seems to universally mean >50% of the whole. It's entirely possible to have a whole that consists entirely of minorities.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:42 PM  

Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?


Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.
 
2013-05-15 05:21:46 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships.


The people who get worked up about reverse racism are entitled white folks with a persecution complex afraid that the darkies might ever benefit from the color of their skin. They're pretty much cool with the advantages that come to them by way of their own skin color (or at least deliberately unaware of them), because...that like totally doesn't count, since that's done in a mostly unspoken way. And besides, "OMG racism was solved YEARS ago! I don't/refuse to see it, therefore it doesn't exist! LALALALALALALALA...fingers in my ears!"
 
2013-05-15 05:25:38 PM  
I assume that Columbia will track down the heirs and give it back?
 
2013-05-15 05:25:39 PM  

Infernalist: No, you misunderstand me.  The social whole is 'The Man'.  That's the consumerist based capitalist culture where what you 'have' is more important than what you are or who you are.  That's the 'culture' that most White American clings to.  There are a few from other minority races who buy into that culture, but nothing to the degree that white America does.


Again, I've got to know what world you're living in. Most Americans are consumers and live in a consumerist based culture no matter what color they are.
 
2013-05-15 05:25:44 PM  

rewind2846: tlars699:
It will be a long time before white people can be considered any type of "minority", if ever.

Yes. I get that hence the few decades bit. (Like more than a generation, less than a century?)

More than a century. And even when (if) that ever happens, we must still ask the question - "who will still hold the power, money and control?"
Numbers don't mean everything.

Besides, let's just assume this "catastrophic" event happens in the next 200 years or so... since hispanic populations are growing the quickest, let's assume they will be the first to outnumber whites (blacks 13%, asians 10%, non-hispanic whites 36%, hispanics 37%, others 5% in 2213 using numbers pulled out of my ass).
Would that be a bad thing? What are you afraid of?


1. 'Catastrophic' is your word, not mine. Note my original question was intentionally neutral in both wording and tone.
2. I have previously posted that I can't wait until we all look Brazilian and race no longer matters, and that I would prefer need/merit based selection. So, afraid? Me? What?
3. Logistically, a significant number of the other Columbian scholarships are based on minority status in our country. What would they do to ensure the money goes to the intended folk who need the advantage? Change the wording back to race specifics? Disband the scholarships as they are doing now for the whitey one?
4. The largest share of money and power would be held by the 1%. Who tend to be greedy, and that's how they get there. Who cares what race they are?
 
2013-05-15 05:26:28 PM  

Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?


I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.
 
2013-05-15 05:26:35 PM  

jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.


Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically.  But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.
 
2013-05-15 05:27:23 PM  

Corvus: randomjsa: I agree.

Now do away with all scholarships based on race or gender. While you're at it, do away with all student organizations based around race or gender. I'll even go whole hog and say do away with all majors that are centered around race or gender studies.

Cool can we get rid of scholarships based on sports too and make it completely academic based and give admittance only based on merit not on ability to pay or if you parents donated money or went to the school?


Athletic ability is merit, you idiot.
 
2013-05-15 05:27:47 PM  

rewind2846: Lowest unemployment rates, lowest underemployment rates, highest incomes, etc etc etc.


Nope.
 
2013-05-15 05:27:52 PM  

SirEattonHogg: The idea that an elimination of a race-based scholarship offered by the respected university (as opposed to a private scholarship which might be acceptable) is some kind of injustice for whites is nonsense.


What sort of "private" scholarship would be acceptable? This one was started by an individual, and is administered by JP Morgan Chase.

The idea that an elimination of a race-based scholarship for whites, while similar scholarships for non-whites continue to exist, somehow represents equality and is not an injustice to whites, is nonsense.

SirEattonHogg: Any other issues or complaints you wish to note that are so unfair to whites? The existence of BET perhaps?


Ah. So you're definitely not interested in actual conversation - merely in debating your own strawmen and trivializations of your opponents' arguments. Carry on, then.

At least now I can rest assured that we whites are immune to unfair race-based policies, because "nonsense."
 
2013-05-15 05:29:35 PM  

Infernalist: Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?


That's a great point.  But you've lost yourself.  That great point directly contradicts your argument.  We're arguing against using race.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, do african-americans need an african americans-only scholarship?
 
2013-05-15 05:30:56 PM  
I guess I need to be more clever. I'm going to set up an "Ultraviolet Overexposure Award" to the student from Oregon with the worst sunburn.
 
2013-05-15 05:32:39 PM  

lennavan: Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?

I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.


What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.

Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.

You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.

Being white is awesome.  Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.
 
2013-05-15 05:32:55 PM  

Bumblefark: the money is in the banana stand: The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships.

The people who get worked up about reverse racism are entitled white folks with a persecution complex afraid that the darkies might ever benefit from the color of their skin. They're pretty much cool with the advantages that come to them by way of their own skin color (or at least deliberately unaware of them), because...that like totally doesn't count, since that's done in a mostly unspoken way. And besides, "OMG racism was solved YEARS ago! I don't/refuse to see it, therefore it doesn't exist! LALALALALALALALA...fingers in my ears!"


My problem is that as long as we keep trying to balance things out by putting our thumbs on the scales, we're never going to reach the goal (I would hope it's the goal) of a colorblind society. At some point everyone needs to get over their entitlement and butthurt and be willing to move forward, and that just can't happen as long as we're still clinging to the pseudo-scientific BS we call 'race' as a political football.
 
2013-05-15 05:34:25 PM  

lennavan: Infernalist: Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

That's a great point.  But you've lost yourself.  That great point directly contradicts your argument.  We're arguing against using race.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, do african-americans need an african americans-only scholarship?


......... When the inner city public schools get the same funding/available resources that suburban public schools do, you might have a point. Of course you could both be right and have the inner city scholarships rather than AfAm race based stuff.....
but this is Fark.
/sigh.
 
2013-05-15 05:35:14 PM  

lennavan: Infernalist: Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

That's a great point.  But you've lost yourself.  That great point directly contradicts your argument.  We're arguing against using race.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, do african-americans need an african americans-only scholarship?


Yep.  Because institutionalized racism still exists.  People are still rejected, daily, for things that they would otherwise get easily IF WHITE.

Because society and the bureaucracy is full of people who routinely treat people differently because of race.

When THAT problem is fixed, then we can stop trying to make up for their misdeeds with Affirmative action and black-only scholarships and the whole lot.

Until then, blame them for making it necessary.
 
2013-05-15 05:35:24 PM  
Same Columbia that has a convicted Cop Killer as a professor teaching social services?
 
2013-05-15 05:35:27 PM  

What in The: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.


You know Peg?
 
2013-05-15 05:37:00 PM  

PunGent: What in The: Wendy's Chili: Do they even have black people in Iowa?

Yes, we do. There's a black woman who lives down the street from me. Also, she's a one-legged lesbian.

You know Peg?


Peg is great. Have you seen her harmonica trick yet?
 
2013-05-15 05:37:29 PM  

jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?


So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?
 
2013-05-15 05:38:36 PM  

Infernalist: Because society and the bureaucracy is full of people who routinely treat people differently because of race.


Can you really fix that by forcing society and bureaucracy to treat people differently because of race?
 
2013-05-15 05:38:56 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically.  But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.


Name one.
 
2013-05-15 05:39:06 PM  

Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?


People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others.  And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.
 
2013-05-15 05:39:06 PM  

Infernalist: What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.


Wow.  While I await your citations on that first claim, it seems you're implying black people do get pulled over because they vaguely resemble a suspect.  I'd really like to know how often that occurs.  I mean, does every black person everywhere get pulled over?  Do they get pulled over multiple times?  How often do black people get pulled over merely for being black?

Infernalist: Being white is awesome. Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.


Ah, yeah, that's a great idea.  I'll look to Chris Rock for some valuable information.  Seems reliable.

Infernalist: Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.


I don't get it.  Again, you're saying because some individuals are racist for whites, we need to enact racist laws against whites to counteract those individuals.  Somehow that doesn't make sense to me yet seems great to you.  It's one of those "two wrongs don't make a right" sorta deals.

Infernalist: You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.


Hehe yeah, or like when white people used to apply to the University of Michigan, the minorities started with a 20 point bonus.  It's like the white people were already at third base!  Of course, that practice was deemed bad.  Not the racist bit, just the giving it an exact number bit.
 
2013-05-15 05:40:56 PM  

Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?


Do you really think people should be treated equally?

And "you" was the generic "you," the same way you used "you."
 
2013-05-15 05:41:29 PM  

tlars699: ......... When the inner city public schools get the same funding/available resources that suburban public schools do, you might have a point.


...........  If there were no white kids at inner city public schools, you would have a point.

I'm okay with increasing funding to inner city schools.  Hell, I'm even okay with changing standards for kids who come from inner city schools.  But why are you excluding the white kids who grew up in poverty and went to inner city schools?

When you can answer that, you might have a point.
 
2013-05-15 05:41:51 PM  

Highroller48: Walker: But Black only, Hispanic only, and Asian only are perfectly fine? Ohhhhhh I see. It's not racism when you are racist against whites.

Please, won't somebody think of us poor, disadvantaged, persecuted white people!

There are only two types of people that refer to programs designed to give systemically disadvantaged minorities an edge to overcome those hurdles as "reverse discrimination" or "racism":  Racists and people who failed History class.


Just to play devil's advocate, do you think affirmative action statutes should have some sort of sunset clause? or some mechanism to determine when they're no longer needed?

Because some of them do in fact, operate through 'reverse racism'.  White guys applying for certain city jobs DO get passed over for minorities with lower test scores...that's a fact.  Now, you can argue that makes up for generations of straight-up racism, and I'd even agree...but that doesn't really help the white guy who just lost out on that job, does it?

Personally, I view those statutes like cancer medications, which are often quite poisonous, but necessary...the trick is determining the correct dose.
 
2013-05-15 05:42:07 PM  

Infernalist: JohnnyRebel88: F it.  If they are allowed to have "minority" scholarships, they should be allowed to have a "whites only" one.  May I remind you that this is a free country, and since Columbia is a private institution, they should be to do whatever they want.

However, the most most logical act would not give aide to people because of the color of their skin, gender, religious beliefs nor sexual orientation, it should be given to a person with the best vision for a better tomorrow and actually deserve the grant or scholarship.

Truly, spoken like someone living in an ideal world.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.  We live in a world where people get rejected for things that they've earned/deserve because of their skin/ethnicity/religion/sex.

So, until we achieve that ideal world, we have to somehow make up for the assholes in the system who don't like treating people equally.

If you want to blame someone, blame Bob in Human Relations who won't hire a black man/woman.


I blame the "Good Ole' Boys Network" and it is about time we have a Kennedy-like person in office, not one that screws other women, but one with vision.

I took an African American Psychology course on time and it pissed me off that they didn't mention thee most important person of that race, MLK.  However we had a guest speaker, a former black panther, in which went over like a fart in church after he went off about whitey and shooting at police.  It truly showed that the views of the professor, who went to Grambling may I add.  I believe that Grambling has a "group" that will make it very uncomfortable for white people to enroll have a delightful college experience.  There was a name I heard once as what they were regarded as, and it wasn't the welcoming committee.

People just don't understand that once they dissect a person, they will find more difference, and as more difference is found, the more separation we will have.  If we were all deaf, who would we elect?  The person that we see doing the most for the people that need help, if we were all blind, we would elect the person we hear the most truth from...  Just never believe what you read, there will always be bias in the piece.
 
2013-05-15 05:42:45 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Because society and the bureaucracy is full of people who routinely treat people differently because of race.

Can you really fix that by forcing society and bureaucracy to treat people differently because of race?


It's the only choice we have.  Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.

The alternative is to say "We know that racism is a reality in our culture and society and there are many people out there who won't hire you because you're black(or whatever), and who won't rent/sell a home to you for the same reason, and treat you with suspicion because of how you look and insult and deride you because you stand out....But, we can't give you a helping hand because then we're being racist, too.  Or something."

When the system stops actively working to shiat on them, then we can stop giving them advantages.  Until that happens, I can't see how we can do anything other than actively work to even out their racist actions with those advantages.
 
2013-05-15 05:43:07 PM  

tlars699: Of course you could both be right and have the inner city scholarships rather than AfAm race based stuff.....


Oh wait, I think I misread this part the first time.  I think we agree.

tlars699: but this is Fark.
/sigh.


But since this is Fark, I missed it.
/sigh
/sorry
 
2013-05-15 05:43:12 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically.  But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.


Okay let's see if I got them:
1. Public Schools- our system for funding sucks- inner city schools don't do as well due to violence and lack of resources.
Solution: Either provide more funding/resources to these schools, so everyone gets a fair deal(gerrymandering school districts), or desegregate living areas so that everyone of all income stripes are equally distributed.

2. Generational Poverty- this is a bunch of crap as an argument. Most white people also have a hard time with this, and either live with it, grow out of it, or fall back into it. (See: Middle Class is shrinking)

3. Advantages while job hunting- ???? I didn't see it, and if you're having that much trouble because of your name- dude, change it, or list a nickname, or just your last name. Chances are it's not due to race, but Shawnaneagan is just too.... unique for the business world, no matter your background. Nobody will take you seriously.
 
2013-05-15 05:43:50 PM  
Infernalist:

There is nothing wring with wanting to live in an ideal world, Plato called it his Utopia, I call it John's Nirvana.
 
2013-05-15 05:47:37 PM  

Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.


What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.
 
2013-05-15 05:48:27 PM  

Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically. But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.


Only an idiot with the brain of a dead flash light battery would say this. If being born white "automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages", then the white supremacist are right and you should take your white people hating, disingenuous nincompoopery and STFU.
 
2013-05-15 05:48:58 PM  

jigger: Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?

Do you really think people should be treated equally?

And "you" was the generic "you," the same way you used "you."


Yes, I do. I think giving someone a "helping hand" just because they were born black, or asian, or white, is no better than declining to give a helping hand to everyone who isn't black, or asian, or white. It's just another form of discrimination

.

Infernalist: People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others. And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.


All races have the same rights under the law. In fact, we have laws in place to specifically punish those who would discriminate based on race. Except when it comes to scholarships it seems everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate based on race.
 
2013-05-15 05:49:19 PM  

tlars699: Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically.  But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.

Okay let's see if I got them:
1. Public Schools- our system for funding sucks- inner city schools don't do as well due to violence and lack of resources.
Solution: Either provide more funding/resources to these schools, so everyone gets a fair deal(gerrymandering school districts), or desegregate living areas so that everyone of all income stripes are equally distributed.

2. Generational Poverty- this is a bunch of crap as an argument. Most white people also have a hard time with this, and either live with it, grow out of it, or ...


I'm a big ol' white boy, and I've lived a good portion of my life in the south and in 'every' job that I've had an opportunity to witness the hiring process behind the scenes, it's always been a case of the hiring person's prejudices.

One of them wouldn't hire black people.  At all.  And joked about it to me, cause..well, I'm white, and I guess she thought it was 'safe' to laugh about it with me.

A few of them wouldn't hire Hispanics.  Same deal.

One of them wouldn't hire someone he 'thought' was a lesbian.  Don't know if she was or not, but that was his motivation.

It always came down to the interview process.

That ingrained racism still exists, boys and girls.  And no one can say otherwise, no matter what color the President is.
 
2013-05-15 05:49:28 PM  

Snarfangel: I assume that Columbia will track down the heirs and give it back?


Legally, Columbia is doing the right thing and going to the courts.

Now, the court MIGHT decide that the money has to go to any surviving heirs, if the 'substantial purpose' of the grant can no longer be met, but my money would be on the court dropping the racial requirement, and leaving it an Iowa-only scholarship fund.

More problematic, actually, could be the long period where NO money was granted...the court might yank control and hand it to a more-active trustee.  Of course, there could also be quite legitimate reasons for that gap.
 
2013-05-15 05:51:25 PM  

lennavan: Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.

What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.


I'm pretending like the problem doesn't exist?  That's what whitewashing means, after all.

I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.

But, whatever, this is fark.
 
2013-05-15 05:53:01 PM  

lennavan: tlars699: ......... When the inner city public schools get the same funding/available resources that suburban public schools do, you might have a point.

...........  If there were no white kids at inner city public schools, you would have a point.

I'm okay with increasing funding to inner city schools.  Hell, I'm even okay with changing standards for kids who come from inner city schools.  But why are you excluding the white kids who grew up in poverty and went to inner city schools?

When you can answer that, you might have a point.


There are a lot of majority-white areas that are steeped in poverty too. I would know, I grew up in one. And because of it, I am a little farking tired of being told "how good I have had it" by other white people who were born with a silver spoon stuck in their ass. Not all of us have mommy and daddy taking care of our every need.
 
2013-05-15 05:53:03 PM  

Infernalist: Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?

People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others.  And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.


And then the very instant that stops, balance is achieved, everything has been corrected, then we can abolish the concept of race?

Sorry, I think there are too many people who will abuse any system that officially condones any kind of racial favoritism and actively work to perpetuate it; regardless of the purity of your intentions.

I think we'll get to a more just society a lot faster in with a lot less conflict if we just do our best to eliminate any recognition of any race except 'human', teach children of all colors that melanin levels don't have any more significance than how much sunscreen they'll need, and let all flavors of racism die out.
 
2013-05-15 05:53:23 PM  

MJMaloney187: Infernalist: jigger: Infernalist: Now, does that help explain why recent immigrants tend to fare better than our own native-born population?

Oh, I was asking if they too should get special treatment, scholarships only for them, etc. It looks like you think they should.

I've met at least a few african immigrants and children of immigrants and worked with a few here or there. I also live in a neighborhood with tons of immigrants from Africa, mostly Somalia and Ethiopia, but some from Francophone countries. The ones I've worked with had immigrant parents who were rather well off and sent their kids to nice colleges. Recently I knew a guy whose parents immigrated from Ghana. They lived in NY and had plenty of money. Sent him to George Washington University (not exactly cheap) and then when he graduated he got into a special internship for minorities.

I wonder if some white kid that immigrated from Albania or some other shiathole of a country could get some special scholarship or internship. Maybe, but it wouldn't be one reserved for white people.

Considering the vast number of scholarships that are out there that aren't focused on race, does your theoretical Albanian 'need' a whites-only scholarship?

Besides, him being white automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages that not even the richest minority gets automatically. But, very few white people see those advantages.  Very few white people WANT to see those advantages.

Only an idiot with the brain of a dead flash light battery would say this. If being born white "automatically confers upon him a huge number of advantages", then the white supremacist are right and you should take your white people hating, disingenuous nincompoopery and STFU.


Lovely rebuttal that not only combines silly insults and internet slang, but also completely misses the point. Well done, good sir.  That's not easy to accomplish.
 
2013-05-15 05:55:40 PM  

Infernalist: I'm a big ol' white boy, and I've lived a good portion of my life in the south and in 'every' job that I've had an opportunity to witness the hiring process behind the scenes, it's always been a case of the hiring person's prejudices.

One of them wouldn't hire black people. At all. And joked about it to me, cause..well, I'm white, and I guess she thought it was 'safe' to laugh about it with me.

A few of them wouldn't hire Hispanics. Same deal.

One of them wouldn't hire someone he 'thought' was a lesbian. Don't know if she was or not, but that was his motivation.

It always came down to the interview process.

That ingrained racism still exists, boys and girls. And no one can say otherwise, no matter what color the President is.


I hope you told them all what shiatbags they are.

That would do a whole lot more than any continuing institutionalized racism.
 
2013-05-15 05:55:42 PM  

beer4breakfast: rewind2846: Lowest unemployment rates, lowest underemployment rates, highest incomes, etc etc etc.

Nope.


I should have said "correcting for education level".
Asian americans do send more of their kids to college.
Still doesn't answer why the African Americans on that list are at the bottom, even behind Native Americans. That's the real question.
 
2013-05-15 05:55:47 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Mattyb710: jigger: Mattyb710: Should you be punished because your parents obviously failed to educate you properly?

Should others be "punished" because your parents failed to educate you properly?

So because I think everyone should be treated equally 100% of the time you think I wasn't educated properly?

People 'should' be treated equally without regards to race or anything else.

But, they're not.

Some races are treated worse than others.  And until that stops, the rest of us have to try and balance their racism with a bit of a helping hand.

And then the very instant that stops, balance is achieved, everything has been corrected, then we can abolish the concept of race?

Sorry, I think there are too many people who will abuse any system that officially condones any kind of racial favoritism and actively work to perpetuate it; regardless of the purity of your intentions.

I think we'll get to a more just society a lot faster in with a lot less conflict if we just do our best to eliminate any recognition of any race except 'human', teach children of all colors that melanin levels don't have any more significance than how much sunscreen they'll need, and let all flavors of racism die out.


Except people have consistently shown that they'll discriminate against people, regardless as to whether or not it it's legal to do so.

They just stop being open about it around most people.

When 'that' racism stops in society, then we can stop trying to minimize its impact on those being discriminated against.

So, really, it's not in our hands. It's in the hands of the racists.
 
2013-05-15 05:56:04 PM  

Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.

What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.

I'm pretending like the problem doesn't exist?  That's what whitewashing means, after all.

I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.

But, whatever, this is fark.


The way in which you are advocating we "actively try and negate its impact" simply gives the racists more ammunition. If we actually treated every single person the same, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or anything else, eventually more and more people would think the same way.

There will always be racist douchebags in the world. We can't fight them by using a form of racism ourselves. That's plain idiotic.
 
2013-05-15 05:56:42 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: I'm a big ol' white boy, and I've lived a good portion of my life in the south and in 'every' job that I've had an opportunity to witness the hiring process behind the scenes, it's always been a case of the hiring person's prejudices.

One of them wouldn't hire black people. At all. And joked about it to me, cause..well, I'm white, and I guess she thought it was 'safe' to laugh about it with me.

A few of them wouldn't hire Hispanics. Same deal.

One of them wouldn't hire someone he 'thought' was a lesbian. Don't know if she was or not, but that was his motivation.

It always came down to the interview process.

That ingrained racism still exists, boys and girls. And no one can say otherwise, no matter what color the President is.

I hope you told them all what shiatbags they are.

That would do a whole lot more than any continuing institutionalized racism.


Oh, I reported most of them.  Quietly.  A few of them were demoted.

Mostly, though, I'd end up being fired after a couple of weeks for something stupid.

but, hey, at least I can look myself in the mirror in the morning.
 
2013-05-15 05:59:34 PM  

JesseL: Bumblefark: the money is in the banana stand: The people that get "worked up" about reverse racism are more so those that do not want discrimination of ANY kind, be it white only, black only, etc. events/scholarships.

The people who get worked up about reverse racism are entitled white folks with a persecution complex afraid that the darkies might ever benefit from the color of their skin. They're pretty much cool with the advantages that come to them by way of their own skin color (or at least deliberately unaware of them), because...that like totally doesn't count, since that's done in a mostly unspoken way. And besides, "OMG racism was solved YEARS ago! I don't/refuse to see it, therefore it doesn't exist! LALALALALALALALA...fingers in my ears!"

My problem is that as long as we keep trying to balance things out by putting our thumbs on the scales, we're never going to reach the goal (I would hope it's the goal) of a colorblind society. At some point everyone needs to get over their entitlement and butthurt and be willing to move forward, and that just can't happen as long as we're still clinging to the pseudo-scientific BS we call 'race' as a political football.


I'm really not sure what a colorblind society would look like, since I don't think one can be found anywhere in human history. So, I'm not sure that's really the most useful goal to be shooting for. And, I really wasn't debating the merits of affirmative action policies -- just making fun of the "reverse racism" concern trolls. But, for what it's worth:

I'd suggest the best way for "everyone...to get over their entitlement and butthurt," the sort that might linger from a few centuries of repression, would be to address the lingering social and economic inequalities that those people have been saddled with.

Now, if you've got other idea (i.e., something more substantial than vaguely patronizing happy-talk about how you think those people ought to feel), I'd be happy to hear it.

Otherwise, Plan A just might be the least-worst remedy for a shiatty situation..
 
2013-05-15 06:01:28 PM  

Infernalist: I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.


I don't have anything against that.  I just dislike that your solution is racist.

I got no beef with helping out inner city school kids.  But you're only helping out the minorities who went to inner city schools.

Give me a form of discrimination and I will happily detail you how I would like to see it addressed.  But there isn't a single one that we should address with another form of discrimination.  You see, I have this dream...
 
2013-05-15 06:01:49 PM  

Mattyb710: Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: It's the only choice we have. Until the quiet racism is expunged from the system by time and education, we 'have' to try and balance out their racism and suppression with a helping hand.

What you're doing is ignoring the problem and merely attempting to cover up the negative results of the problem.  Whitewashing if you will.

I'm pretending like the problem doesn't exist?  That's what whitewashing means, after all.

I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.

But, whatever, this is fark.

The way in which you are advocating we "actively try and negate its impact" simply gives the racists more ammunition. If we actually treated every single person the same, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or anything else, eventually more and more people would think the same way.

There will always be racist douchebags in the world. We can't fight them by using a form of racism ourselves. That's plain idiotic.


We spent 100 years after the Civil War 'hoping' that the examples set by the abolitionists and men like Abraham Lincoln would convince the racists to...lighten up.

That didn't work out.  Active effort is what caused the Civil Rights movement to succeed, by meeting that institutional racism head-on.  Not by having some white people just 'treat everyone the same'.  By insisting and 'demanding' that even racists had to treat people equally.

That process 'race blindness' will NEVER work as long as there are active racists who simply refuse to abandon their race-based views and their actions to discriminate because of those views.  And we can't let their actions be the only actions influencing that struggle.
 
2013-05-15 06:02:55 PM  

Infernalist: Oh, I reported most of them. Quietly. A few of them were demoted.

Mostly, though, I'd end up being fired after a couple of weeks for something stupid.

but, hey, at least I can look myself in the mirror in the morning.


Why would you do it quietly? That shiat needs to be loudly and publicly stomped on. People like that need to be exposed and shamed. Racism is like fungus, it grows in the dark and where it has plenty of BS to feed it. Your style of action will only keep it going.



Mattyb710:
The way in which you are advocating we "actively try and negate its impact" simply gives the racists more ammunition. If we actually treated every single person the same, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or anything else, eventually more and more people would think the same way.

There will always be racist douchebags in the world. We can't fight them by using a form of racism ourselves. That's plain idiotic.


^^^THAT^^^
 
2013-05-15 06:05:18 PM  
tlars699:
4. The largest share of money and power would be held by the 1%. Who tend to be greedy, and that's how they get there. Who cares what race they are?

The 1% became the 1% because of their greed, and because of that greed they will do whatever is necessary to keep that money and power. They will pass these traits and that power to their descendants. So those people with their hands on the controls then will continue to be the same as the people with their hands on the controls now.
 
2013-05-15 06:08:15 PM  

lennavan: Infernalist: I'm actually not only admitting that the problem exists, but that we have to actively try and negate its impact on society and those people being discriminated against.

I don't have anything against that.  I just dislike that your solution is racist.

I got no beef with helping out inner city school kids.  But you're only helping out the minorities who went to inner city schools.

Give me a form of discrimination and I will happily detail you how I would like to see it addressed.  But there isn't a single one that we should address with another form of discrimination.  You see, I have this dream...


Oh, the 'solutions' to that discrimination and racism already exist.  They have had these solutions for years, the only problem is, people find a way to get around them, bypass them, ignore them.

Don't like black people?  Refuse to hire them because they lack enough experience.  Or they're overqualified.  Or the position's already filled.

Don't want certain races in your apartments?  Tell them that they don't make enough to qualify.  Or their references didn't check out.

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore.  It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

Now, is my solution racist?  Maybe.  I don't really 'care' what it's called.  As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others.  I'm pretty sure that most minorities don't 'like' having to rely on Affirmative Action and would much rather make their way in the world on their own merits, but too many people exist in this country that would simply ignore those merits and reward other less deserving men because of irrational hatred based on race.

And as long as those racists exist, then I see the need for that balancing hand to try and minimize their impact.
 
2013-05-15 06:09:53 PM  
Justice > Equality

Hey, it could be worse. You could be Asian.
 
2013-05-15 06:11:11 PM  

abhorrent1: Why? Black people have their own, as well as Hispanics.  Once again, it's only wrong/racist if white people do it.


Hush now...this is the point where you're supposed to smile and nod, secure in the knowledge that only the lesser breeds are in need of such handouts.
 
2013-05-15 06:11:56 PM  

Infernalist: That process 'race blindness' will NEVER work as long as there are active racists who simply refuse to abandon their race-based views and their actions to discriminate because of those views.


Like raaaaaain....
 
2013-05-15 06:11:57 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Oh, I reported most of them. Quietly. A few of them were demoted.

Mostly, though, I'd end up being fired after a couple of weeks for something stupid.

but, hey, at least I can look myself in the mirror in the morning.

Why would you do it quietly? That shiat needs to be loudly and publicly stomped on. People like that need to be exposed and shamed. Racism is like fungus, it grows in the dark and where it has plenty of BS to feed it. Your style of action will only keep it going.

Mattyb710: The way in which you are advocating we "actively try and negate its impact" simply gives the racists more ammunition. If we actually treated every single person the same, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation or anything else, eventually more and more people would think the same way.

There will always be racist douchebags in the world. We can't fight them by using a form of racism ourselves. That's plain idiotic.

^^^THAT^^^


Why did I do it quietly?  Because I have kids and I like being able to feed on my own without having to rely on food assistance because I got fired for doing the right thing.

Didn't help much, I still got fired on a number of occasions, but again, I have my dignity and self respect.

Besides, in the business world, you don't rage at your boss over their misdeeds, you complain to 'their' boss.  Or to an HR officer.  Raging at your boss for his racism is a guaranteed firing, no matter what happens to 'him'.  It's not just suggested, but 'required' in most businesses to handle such matters quietly.

As for using racism to fight racism...Show me something else that works and isn't racist and I'll support 'that' instead.

But it has to work.  Not just feel good.
 
2013-05-15 06:14:43 PM  

Infernalist: Oh, the 'solutions' to that discrimination and racism already exist. They have had these solutions for years, the only problem is, people find a way to get around them, bypass them, ignore them.

Don't like black people? Refuse to hire them because they lack enough experience. Or they're overqualified. Or the position's already filled.

Don't want certain races in your apartments? Tell them that they don't make enough to qualify. Or their references didn't check out.

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore. It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others. I'm pretty sure that most minorities don't 'like' having to rely on Affirmative Action and would much rather make their way in the world on their own merits, but too many people exist in this country that would simply ignore those merits and reward other less deserving men because of irrational hatred based on race.

And as long as those racists exist, then I see the need for that balancing hand to try and minimize their impact.


And you still don't see that racism begets more racism?

If existing racists have to keep quiet and operate subtly that's bad, but at least they're not spreading their ideas and if they try they can be subject to shame and ridicule. Eventually there will be very few of them left.

If institutional racism continues to exist, it's a constant reminder that people can be treated differently based on their skin color. That guarantees that it will continue to feed entitlement, resentment, and the notion that our skin makes us different.
 
2013-05-15 06:20:07 PM  

Infernalist: I still got fired on a number of occasions


I have news for you cupcake. You weren't fired "on a number of occasions" because you are a "good guy." After reading the thread, I am positive that you are the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for your mistakes and sweeps them under the rug. Nobody wants to employ people like you since little problems tend to become big problems when you are around.
 
2013-05-15 06:20:35 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Oh, the 'solutions' to that discrimination and racism already exist. They have had these solutions for years, the only problem is, people find a way to get around them, bypass them, ignore them.

Don't like black people? Refuse to hire them because they lack enough experience. Or they're overqualified. Or the position's already filled.

Don't want certain races in your apartments? Tell them that they don't make enough to qualify. Or their references didn't check out.

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore. It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others. I'm pretty sure that most minorities don't 'like' having to rely on Affirmative Action and would much rather make their way in the world on their own merits, but too many people exist in this country that would simply ignore those merits and reward other less deserving men because of irrational hatred based on race.

And as long as those racists exist, then I see the need for that balancing hand to try and minimize their impact.

And you still don't see that racism begets more racism?

If existing racists have to keep quiet and operate subtly that's bad, but at least they're not spreading their ideas and if they try they can be subject to shame and ridicule. Eventually there will be very few of them left.

If institutional racism continues to exist, it's a constant reminder that people can be treated differently based on their skin color. That guarantees that it will continue to feed entitlement, resentment, and the notion that our skin makes us different.


Except they're not shamed and ridiculed.  They work quietly and efficiently and nothing ever happens to most of them.

Some of them even get powerful enough to run for the Republican nomination for the Presidency.

See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself.  Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea.  History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.

So, ignoring the problem is basically the same as endorsing it.  Are we creating some resentment with white people by using Affirmative Action and black-only scholarships and stuff like that?  Probably, some, yeah.

I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.

All in all, again, if you show me a solution that works and isn't based around racial preference, then lemme see it.

But it has to work.  And saying 'ignore them long enough and they'll stop' is not a solution.
 
2013-05-15 06:21:25 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Oh, the 'solutions' to that discrimination and racism already exist. They have had these solutions for years, the only problem is, people find a way to get around them, bypass them, ignore them.

Don't like black people? Refuse to hire them because they lack enough experience. Or they're overqualified. Or the position's already filled.

Don't want certain races in your apartments? Tell them that they don't make enough to qualify. Or their references didn't check out.

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore. It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others. I'm pretty sure that most minorities don't 'like' having to rely on Affirmative Action and would much rather make their way in the world on their own merits, but too many people exist in this country that would simply ignore those merits and reward other less deserving men because of irrational hatred based on race.

And as long as those racists exist, then I see the need for that balancing hand to try and minimize their impact.

And you still don't see that racism begets more racism?

If existing racists have to keep quiet and operate subtly that's bad, but at least they're not spreading their ideas and if they try they can be subject to shame and ridicule. Eventually there will be very few of them left.

If institutional racism continues to exist, it's a constant reminder that people can be treated differently based on their skin color. That guarantees that it will continue to feed entitlement, resentment, and the notion that our skin makes us different.


Two wrongs do make a right.

And it's not wrong, because it's used to balance out another wrong.

It makes perfect sense.
 
2013-05-15 06:21:33 PM  

umad: Infernalist: I still got fired on a number of occasions

I have news for you cupcake. You weren't fired "on a number of occasions" because you are a "good guy." After reading the thread, I am positive that you are the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for your mistakes and sweeps them under the rug. Nobody wants to employ people like you since little problems tend to become big problems when you are around.


No u.
 
2013-05-15 06:21:49 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: Oh, I reported most of them. Quietly. A few of them were demoted.

Mostly, though, I'd end up being fired after a couple of weeks for something stupid.

but, hey, at least I can look myself in the mirror in the morning.

Why would you do it quietly? That shiat needs to be loudly and publicly stomped on. People like that need to be exposed and shamed. Racism is like fungus, it grows in the dark and where it has plenty of BS to feed it. Your style of action will only keep it going.


The dude got fired for doing the right thing...I think you might cut him a LITTLE slack.  He's not the problem.
 
2013-05-15 06:23:08 PM  

Infernalist: umad: Infernalist: I still got fired on a number of occasions

I have news for you cupcake. You weren't fired "on a number of occasions" because you are a "good guy." After reading the thread, I am positive that you are the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for your mistakes and sweeps them under the rug. Nobody wants to employ people like you since little problems tend to become big problems when you are around.

No u.


I own up to my mistakes. I have also never been fired.
 
2013-05-15 06:24:17 PM  

PunGent: The dude got fired for doing the right thing


Bullshiat.
 
2013-05-15 06:24:24 PM  

umad: Infernalist: umad: Infernalist: I still got fired on a number of occasions

I have news for you cupcake. You weren't fired "on a number of occasions" because you are a "good guy." After reading the thread, I am positive that you are the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for your mistakes and sweeps them under the rug. Nobody wants to employ people like you since little problems tend to become big problems when you are around.

No u.

I own up to my mistakes. I have also never been fired.


okay
 
2013-05-15 06:25:45 PM  

Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.


FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?
 
2013-05-15 06:26:02 PM  

Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?

I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.

What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.

Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.

You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.

Being white is awesome.  Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.


Being white is never a cause for being pulled over? As a white person who has been cuffed and put in the back of a police car not once but twice for being in the ghetto after dark, that's bullshiat.

White people are never arrested on vague descriptions? As someone whose neighbor and good friend was arrested for rape because he fit the description (5'10" scraggly white guy) of the perp and was out on his porch at the wrong time - that's bullshiat.

And as someone who has not gotten jobs for my political beliefs (you're not a good fit) and personal appearance (your hair is too long), the idea that whites can't be passed over for bullshiat reasons is itself bullshiat.

Note that I'm NOT saying that black people can't experience these things. And I'm NOT saying that when black people do experience racism it is somehow unimportant because I have also experienced racism.

I'm saying that your strawman that white people have perfect lives where they never experience the sharp end of discrimination is just that - a strawman composed of bullshiat.
 
2013-05-15 06:28:54 PM  

JesseL: Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.

FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?


I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.
 
2013-05-15 06:30:16 PM  

Elegy: Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?

I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.

What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.

Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.

You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.

Being white is awesome.  Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.

Being white is never a cause for being pulled over? As a white person who has been cuffed and put in the back of a police car not once but twice for being in the ghetto after dark, that's bullshiat.

White people are never arrested on vague descriptions? As someone whose neighbor and good friend was arrested for rape because he fit the description (5'10" scraggly white guy) of the perp and was out on his porch at the wrong time - that's bullshiat.

And as someone who has not gotten jobs for my political beliefs (you're not a good fit) and personal appearance (your hair is too long), the idea that whites can't be passed over for bullshiat reasons is itself bullshiat ...


You can cut your hair and not talk about politics.

What do you suggest black people do about people who refuse hire them because they're....black?
 
2013-05-15 06:30:18 PM  

Infernalist: We spent 100 years after the Civil War 'hoping' that the examples set by the abolitionists and men like Abraham Lincoln would convince the racists to...lighten up.

That didn't work out. Active effort is what caused the Civil Rights movement to succeed, by meeting that institutional racism head-on. Not by having some white people just 'treat everyone the same'. By insisting and 'demanding' that even racists had to treat people equally.

That process 'race blindness' will NEVER work as long as there are active racists who simply refuse to abandon their race-based views and their actions to discriminate because of those views. And we can't let their actions be the only actions influencing that struggle.


I've bolded the important part of your post. I've also italicized the key part of that part. You're right, it wasn't just by having white people treat everyone the same, it was by the civil rights movement treating the racist white people as equals and giving them no more authority than they would anyone else. It's not a matter of 'making' other people treat you as a equal, it's a matter treating them as if they're not even in a position to make such a choice.

Planck was talking about science, but the sentiment works just as well for social issues, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

If you make it X vs. Y, you're making it worse for everyone and keeping racism around for longer. If you go, "people who judge based on race are backwards arseholes," society irons itself out in a few generations. Nope, but we're Americans - we figure if one side just yells juuuust louder enough than the other side their opinion will become the cultural conscience tomorrow. Disdain for racists is a much more powerful tool in the long run than, "X gets a bonus because history." I mean, unless your goal is to alienate people and maintain the status quo of racial tension. if that's what you're out for, good job.

If you want to level the playing field, strip the names, race, gender off the scholarships and and do it based on economic need. If a black kid has been at a disadvantage all his life, his economic standing would reflect that, would it not? By taking that approach you catch anyone who was a victim of a hard life coming from systematic discrimination AND those who were the victim of a hard life steaming from pretty much every other cause. Given two identical GPAs, you cannot go, "well the white kid must have worked less for it," but the kids who's household income is $8k a year? I don't care what color that kid is, they did a hell of a job graduating.

/rant
 
2013-05-15 06:30:55 PM  
I suppose it was already italicized, but "equal."
 
2013-05-15 06:31:57 PM  

Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.


Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!
 
2013-05-15 06:34:13 PM  
Reading through this thread is hilarious. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THOSE POOR OPPRESSED WHITE AMERICAN MALES!?
 
2013-05-15 06:35:30 PM  

Infernalist: JesseL: Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.

FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?

I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.


Much better to then shackle someone else's legs and call it "fair."
 
2013-05-15 06:35:58 PM  

BigNumber12: Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.

Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!


Yes they will. Because of all the privilege that every single white person will have and the countless hypothetical injustices that the minority student will have faced as opposed to the white student.

I mean, we can make it income/class based but then the Indian/Arab/Chinese students will completely fill our halls (not Jews though, that's antisemitic), so racial preference are the only way to go.
 
2013-05-15 06:36:03 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Infernalist: We spent 100 years after the Civil War 'hoping' that the examples set by the abolitionists and men like Abraham Lincoln would convince the racists to...lighten up.

That didn't work out. Active effort is what caused the Civil Rights movement to succeed, by meeting that institutional racism head-on. Not by having some white people just 'treat everyone the same'. By insisting and 'demanding' that even racists had to treat people equally.

That process 'race blindness' will NEVER work as long as there are active racists who simply refuse to abandon their race-based views and their actions to discriminate because of those views. And we can't let their actions be the only actions influencing that struggle.

I've bolded the important part of your post. I've also italicized the key part of that part. You're right, it wasn't just by having white people treat everyone the same, it was by the civil rights movement treating the racist white people as equals and giving them no more authority than they would anyone else. It's not a matter of 'making' other people treat you as a equal, it's a matter treating them as if they're not even in a position to make such a choice.

Planck was talking about science, but the sentiment works just as well for social issues, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

If you make it X vs. Y, you're making it worse for everyone and keeping racism around for longer. If you go, "people who judge based on race are backwards arseholes," society irons itself out in a few generations. Nope, but we're Americans - we figure if one side just yells juuuust louder enough than the other side their opinion will become the cultural conscience tomorrow. Disdain for racists is a much more powerful tool in the long run than, "X gets a bonus because history." I mean, unless your ...


In the long run, and in an ideal world where people actually change their attitudes based on scorning, and that scorning actually 'happens'...Maybe you'd be right.

But we have a world where Republican would-be nominees for the Presidency do everything shy of calling him a 'ni**er' on national TV and nothing ever happens to him.  Where the Republican nominee puts on TANNER to appear browner so as to appeal to Hispanics and his party and companions don't scorn him over it.

We live in a world where racism exists, alive and well and barely veiled most of the time.  And simply having people call them 'dumb racists' doesn't work when they don't 'care' what us liberal bleeding heart idiots think of them.  They take pride in scorning 'us' for our beliefs in equality.

So, no.  Simply scorning them verbally doesn't work.  At all.

So, find me a solution that 'works'.
 
2013-05-15 06:36:57 PM  

Infernalist: I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.


That's a stupid metaphor and LBJ was a douchebag of epic proportions.

There is no contest, there is no "half-way point", and there is no undoing the past. The situation can't be forced into fairness at this point.
 
2013-05-15 06:38:29 PM  

BigNumber12: Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.

Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!


Now do the one about how the black guys are gonna take our white women away.
 
2013-05-15 06:38:38 PM  
Infernalist:

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore.  It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

THIS. My nephew just turned eighteen this year, and is finishing up his first year of college. When he entered his teens, just before he started junior high school, his father and I sat down with him and told him about being a black man in the world, and about this country in particular.

About keeping his hands on the steering wheel when pulled over by a cop, about how to make sure you take your hood off whenever you enter a store and how they will watch your every move, about how much harder he will have to work in school and afterward than his white classmates just to stay on par with them, about all the ins and outs and etiquette that he must navigate if he wants to stay safe and out of prison in this country. It helped that his father was a cop and later a corrections officer.

As we spoke to him I found myself wishing that we did not have to do this, to talk to him about these things. I'm sure this is not a conversation that white parents have with their children, and I wished that this were so with him. But it isn't, and so as my father told me, we told him.

He is doing well now, and is heeding our advice... he did get one traffic ticket (rolling stop on campus), but that's about the extent of any "trouble" he's ever been in.

No one "likes" thinking that they got the job because of some special program, or an apartment or house because there was a law that made it happen, or that their hard work would be negated by a system of quotas or set-asides. But a realist realizes that there are still people out there who will succumb to their prejudices and biases, be they racial, economic, sexual or gender, and they will do what they can to prevent your success "just because".
 
2013-05-15 06:38:48 PM  

BigNumber12: Infernalist: JesseL: Infernalist: See, you think if we don't act with racial motivations in mind, that eventually the problem will fix itself. Well, the post-Civil War era until the 1960s says that's a bad idea. History shows that if you ignore racism, it spreads and becomes standard and accepted and simply 'the way things are done around here, boy'.

FFS. You know there's a world of difference between outlawing segregation (which is what the civil rights movement was about) and making it official policy (which is what affirmative action and race base scholarships are about), right?

I'll refer to you to the LBJ quote above in the thread about unshackling someone's legs halfway through the race.

Much better to then shackle someone else's legs and call it "fair."


Until the guy behind catches up?  Yeah, that 'is' fair.

If you're angry, blame our older generations for being retarded.
 
2013-05-15 06:42:33 PM  

Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.

Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!

Now do the one about how the black guys are gonna take our white women away.


Do the one where you say something stupid and irrelev... ah, you're on it.
 
2013-05-15 06:44:07 PM  

rewind2846: Infernalist:

The racism isn't open and obvious anymore.  It's quiet and subtle and hidden behind smiles and apologetic words.

THIS. My nephew just turned eighteen this year, and is finishing up his first year of college. When he entered his teens, just before he started junior high school, his father and I sat down with him and told him about being a black man in the world, and about this country in particular.

About keeping his hands on the steering wheel when pulled over by a cop, about how to make sure you take your hood off whenever you enter a store and how they will watch your every move, about how much harder he will have to work in school and afterward than his white classmates just to stay on par with them, about all the ins and outs and etiquette that he must navigate if he wants to stay safe and out of prison in this country. It helped that his father was a cop and later a corrections officer.

As we spoke to him I found myself wishing that we did not have to do this, to talk to him about these things. I'm sure this is not a conversation that white parents have with their children, and I wished that this were so with him. But it isn't, and so as my father told me, we told him.

He is doing well now, and is heeding our advice... he did get one traffic ticket (rolling stop on campus), but that's about the extent of any "trouble" he's ever been in.

No one "likes" thinking that they got the job because of some special program, or an apartment or house because there was a law that made it happen, or that their hard work would be negated by a system of quotas or set-asides. But a realist realizes that there are still people out there who will succumb to their prejudices and biases, be they racial, economic, sexual or gender, and they will do what they can to prevent your success "just because".


A lot of minds were just blown by your referring to having to have to have a 'talk' with your kid about how the world works and the extra stuff he has to do just to be treated equally.

They think if we just 'ignore' the racism and scorn the openly racist ones, that it'll all go away in a few generations on its own.
 
2013-05-15 06:46:41 PM  

umad: PunGent: The dude got fired for doing the right thing

Bullshiat.


Are...umad?  :)
 
2013-05-15 06:50:48 PM  

special20: boarch: Lucky you, I paid my way in full even after making the dean's list twice. If I were a little less white... it would of been free.

You sound "aggie"


Agricultural?
 
2013-05-15 06:51:16 PM  

Infernalist: No, you're grasping the point. As of right 'now', the white population is the majority race in America. It's going to 'stay' the majority race for...ever, probably. As far as we're concerned, at least. That certainly won't change for a few hundred years, so it's a moot point for our discussion.

Now, at some point in the somewhat near future, the sum total of the minority races in America will outnumber the white population.

But that doesn't mean that the white population is suddenly a minority in America. The white race will STILL be the majority race in America.


No, it won't. It will be a plurality.

Consider parliamentary governments, with the various disparate minor parties. You'll often see "coalition" or "minority" governments. Those are ones run by a party that has less than 50% of the seats. No one party has a majority. But the largest single party has a plurality. But that plurality is not necessarily the governing party.

Hell, even the largest demographic group may not have political power. Consider pretty much any colonial government ever, or South Africa pre-Mandela. Or Syria. Or Norman England. Or, strangely, Sparta.
 
2013-05-15 06:51:17 PM  

BigNumber12: Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Infernalist: I'd bet good money that they'll all get over it and most will complain about something else in a few days after fuming over 'hand outs' and silly shiat like that.

Yep - nothing says "petty, transient grievance" like watching years and years of your kid's disciplined study habits, wise prioritization of time, and academic performance amount to nothing when their scholarship opportunities and enrollment slots are given, by law, to lower-performing students because of the color of their skin.

Oh well! They'll get over it in a day or two!

Now do the one about how the black guys are gonna take our white women away.

Do the one where you say something stupid and irrelev... ah, you're on it.


I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?
 
2013-05-15 06:52:55 PM  

Infernalist: So, find me a solution that 'works'.


How is your favored solution working? As far as I can tell it's not.

Meanwhile; how long did we try desegregation and equal rights before we jumped back into favoring institutional racism again? Maybe a year?
 
2013-05-15 06:53:33 PM  
Negro Please!
s10.postimg.org
 
2013-05-15 06:53:41 PM  

keepitcherry: Reading through this thread is hilarious. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THOSE POOR OPPRESSED WHITE AMERICAN MALES!?


The poorest, least healthy people in the country, at the time of the WWI draft, were poor Appalachian whites.
 
2013-05-15 06:54:42 PM  

Infernalist: Until the guy behind catches up?  Yeah, that 'is' fair.


The metaphor is simplistic. How do you measure "catching up?"

Infernalist: If you're angry, blame our older generations for being retarded.


I do. You, however, seem much happier to blame, and punish, a 17-year-old college applicant who had nothing to do with the problem. Not to mention happily handicapping our country's development and competitiveness against the rest of the world by denying opportunities to more qualified applicants because it "feels good" and it's "doing something."
 
2013-05-15 06:55:55 PM  

Bumblefark: Now do the one about how the black guys are gonna take our white women away.


But only the fat ones, it seems.
 
2013-05-15 06:56:58 PM  

Infernalist: In the long run, and in an ideal world where people actually change their attitudes based on scorning, and that scorning actually 'happens'...Maybe you'd be right.

But we have a world where Republican would-be nominees for the Presidency do everything shy of calling him a 'ni**er' on national TV and nothing ever happens to him. Where the Republican nominee puts on TANNER to appear browner so as to appeal to Hispanics and his party and companions don't scorn him over it.

We live in a world where racism exists, alive and well and barely veiled most of the time. And simply having people call them 'dumb racists' doesn't work when they don't 'care' what us liberal bleeding heart idiots think of them. They take pride in scorning 'us' for our beliefs in equality.

So, no. Simply scorning them verbally doesn't work. At all.

So, find me a solution that 'works'.


Is your generation more or less racist than your parents'? Is the generation after yours more or less racist than yours? Sweeping cultural changes take time. I realize that doesn't help the people in the mean-time, but pretending there's anything that's going to lead to a solution now is reckless. And honestly, going, "it's your job to make up for what white people" when your ancestors weren't even in the US until the 50s... you see how that could create a creeping adversarial feeling where none would have existed otherwise?

I'm not saying that telling of some racist douche is going to fix them. I'm saying if the general consensus of society is "that's not acceptable" will eventually fade it out. No, I have no idea how many generations it'll take, but I still think it'll succeed quicker than a constant us v. them mentality.
 
2013-05-15 06:59:21 PM  

Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?


That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.
 
2013-05-15 07:03:35 PM  

BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.


Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.
 
2013-05-15 07:03:47 PM  

rewind2846: About keeping his hands on the steering wheel when pulled over by a cop, about how to make sure you take your hood off whenever you enter a store and how they will watch your every move, about how much harder he will have to work in school and afterward than his white classmates just to stay on par with them, about all the ins and outs and etiquette that he must navigate if he wants to stay safe and out of prison in this country. It helped that his father was a cop and later a corrections officer.

As we spoke to him I found myself wishing that we did not have to do this, to talk to him about these things. I'm sure this is not a conversation that white parents have with their children, and I wished that this were so with him. But it isn't, and so as my father told me, we told him.


Funny, I heard both, "keep hands on the steering wheel when pulled over, don't reach for registration until asked" and "don't obscure your face in a bank" as a kid. Maybe it just a matter of having parents who don't want you to end up in potentially dangerous and wholly avoidable situations? Never got the "you'll have to work harder in school" one though. Got the "you're a smart kid, go do a good job" one instead... Which is good; the former would have probably put me in a depressed mindset and made me question if school was even worth it.
 
2013-05-15 07:08:03 PM  

ikanreed: Wow, there are sure a lot of "victims" of "reverse-racism" in here.  At least it's totally apparent none of them are the slightest bit educated, thus validating their premise.


Oh? Here's a challenge: Find a scholarship for caucasions only that pays more than half their tuition as long as their GPA stays above 2.8. No other real restrictions.
 
2013-05-15 07:21:47 PM  

Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.


There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-15 07:28:10 PM  

Bumblefark: Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.


Your careful wording is technically accurate - because of pushback like that in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, Universities, supported by the Supreme Court (Grutter v. Bollinger), have been very careful to obfuscate and portray their selection methods as "complex," so as to avoid providing physical evidence of a quota system. So, I'll give you that.

Not calling it that, however, does not change the fact that race-based admissions processes like that challenged in Grutter do in fact exist, with the goal of promoting diversity. The very existence of such a program, by definition, is evidence that racial factors are being used to manually alter the recipients of enrollment slots.
 
2013-05-15 07:28:54 PM  

super_grass: Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.

There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

[freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com image 405x271]


Why, yes, I *do* think the goal posts look better back there.

Nice jerb.

/should I explain why that chart doesn't prove what you think it does?
 
2013-05-15 07:30:14 PM  

xmasbaby: I have some GREAT news for you! I just did a highly scientific study of pulling up Google, entering the phrase "percent women in ______ school " and quickly substituted "law" "medical" and "journalism." Looks like women are currently over represented in journalism school and roughly equally represented in medical and law school. When I substituted simply "college" the numbers jumped even higher. Apparently MEN are now underrepresented in US colleges and it may be time for us to start getting some of that exclusive, no womenz allowed, free money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?pagewanted=a ll &_r=0

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/aug/18/women-dominate-j-school-enr ol lment/

Anyway, I think we can safely do away with these silly, "women only" scholarships. Don't you?


The numbers are even worse when you compare advanced degrees.  Fewer men are going for their masters degree.  One theory is that's because the men end up having to find work to provide for a new family while the women have the luxury of staying in school.
 
2013-05-15 07:36:10 PM  

PunGent: umad: PunGent: The dude got fired for doing the right thing

Bullshiat.

Are...umad?  :)


Nope. Just not gullible.
 
2013-05-15 07:36:41 PM  

Magorn: Mattyb710: Magorn: lennavan: Well yeah, a white's only scholarship is bigoted.  These however, are not:

Dr. Robert E. Campbell Memorial Scholarship for an American minority student in journalism
Gruner + Jahr Magazine Scholarship for female students interested in magazine writing
Phyllis and William Michelfelder Scholarship for a female print student
Trudi Stamm Scholarship, for a woman from New York State
Westinghouse Broadcasting Co Scholarship in memory of the late LaRue Heard Johnson ('68) for minority students
Jacobo Timerman Scholarship in memory of Jacobo Timerman (for a Latin American student)
Sylvia L. Wilson ('85) Memorial Scholarship, for an African-American woman specializing in print journalism

That's just the Columbia University Journalism school.
/there were no "whites only" journalism school scholarships, that's bigoted, remember?

yeah, I mean both Whites AND Blacks were an oppressed minority who suffered from YEARS of institutionalized discrimination in this country,  Remember those horrible "James Croworthington III" laws in the deep south that deprived blacks of their rights to vote and forced them to attend ridiculously underfunded schools, sit in the back of buses and use the back door at lunch counters?

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but your post is forcing me to reply.

Are you actually making that argument that because a certain group of people have been discriminated against in the past that it is acceptable for them to discriminate against others now?

YES, and I can't understand why you would think otherwise.  Your argument could be re-phrased as "are you actually making the argument that because Ariel Castro, forcibly imprisoned 3 women for 20 years that he should now be forcibly imprisoned for the rest of his life?"   The answer, of course, is yes.  Justice requires it.   An important part of equal treatment under the law  is that there be a repairative remedy when it is found to have been violated.   You don't get to ...


Bad logic.  In one case a specific person committed a crime, will be convicted in a court, and sentenced for "fark you forever, asshole" prison. In the other case, you are automatically punishing an entire group of people because of something their ancestors may or may not have done.
 
2013-05-15 07:42:48 PM  

Bumblefark: super_grass: Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.

There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

[freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com image 405x271]

Why, yes, I *do* think the goal posts look better back there.

Nice jerb.

/should I explain why that chart doesn't prove what you think it does?


Are you implying that policies don't have side-effects that are not written down? There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

By the way, passive aggressive dismissal of contradictory data isn't going to prove you any more right either. If you think there's more to the argument, explain it through instead of being wry.
 
2013-05-15 07:50:07 PM  

Infernalist: Elegy: Infernalist: lennavan: Infernalist: Your mere existence as a member of the social majority in this country has given you advantages that you've plainly never even considered.

For example: When was the last time you were stopped because you resembled a suspected perpetrator of a nearby crime?

I don't follow what you're arguing here.  Minorities get stopped by cops more often, therefore they deserve special treatment in college admissions, scholarships, hiring practices and so on?

Wait, that's not it.  Are you saying "some cops are racist against minorities, therefore it's okay to allow  societal racism against whites?"

Because I'll tell you what, I bet a few white people would be more than happy to drop by the local PD a few times a year if it gets their kids access to the same college scholarships and lower college admissions requirements.

What I'm saying, very plainly and very simply, is that being white means never getting pulled over because you vaguely resemble a suspect in a nearby crime.

Being white means, you never get automatically and quietly rejected for employment or from qualifying for a house/apartment because you're white.

You start off at first base, while everyone else has to successfully hit to get on base.

Being white is awesome.  Go check out the Chris Rock skit on being white.

Being white is never a cause for being pulled over? As a white person who has been cuffed and put in the back of a police car not once but twice for being in the ghetto after dark, that's bullshiat.

White people are never arrested on vague descriptions? As someone whose neighbor and good friend was arrested for rape because he fit the description (5'10" scraggly white guy) of the perp and was out on his porch at the wrong time - that's bullshiat.

And as someone who has not gotten jobs for my political beliefs (you're not a good fit) and personal appearance (your hair is too long), the idea that whites can't be passed over for bullshiat reasons is itself bullshiat ...

You can cut your hair and not talk about politics.

What do you suggest black people do about people who refuse hire them because they're....black?


Did you miss the part where I fully recognized that black people do in fact experience racism and that my own experience does not lessen that?

We were actually talking about your bullshiat comment that white people will never experience discrimination.

It's ok, I think I found your problem sport. Your cited authority on the life of white people is.... Chris Rock. LOL oh wait you're serious let me laugh harder.

You should probably get to know some white people at some point in your life, else you'll always be the racist that you are now.
 
2013-05-15 07:52:40 PM  

Infernalist: Now, is my solution racist? Maybe. I don't really 'care' what it's called. As far as I see, it's a necessary evil, required because of the actions of others.


At least you admit it.  We're not gonna get any further on this, I know.
 
2013-05-15 07:58:46 PM  

ProfessorOhki: rewind2846: About keeping his hands on the steering wheel when pulled over by a cop, about how to make sure you take your hood off whenever you enter a store and how they will watch your every move, about how much harder he will have to work in school and afterward than his white classmates just to stay on par with them, about all the ins and outs and etiquette that he must navigate if he wants to stay safe and out of prison in this country. It helped that his father was a cop and later a corrections officer.

As we spoke to him I found myself wishing that we did not have to do this, to talk to him about these things. I'm sure this is not a conversation that white parents have with their children, and I wished that this were so with him. But it isn't, and so as my father told me, we told him.

Funny, I heard both, "keep hands on the steering wheel when pulled over, don't reach for registration until asked" and "don't obscure your face in a bank" as a kid. Maybe it just a matter of having parents who don't want you to end up in potentially dangerous and wholly avoidable situations? Never got the "you'll have to work harder in school" one though. Got the "you're a smart kid, go do a good job" one instead... Which is good; the former would have probably put me in a depressed mindset and made me question if school was even worth it.


Yeah, that's funny. I'm white and my parents had talks with me about the steering wheel thing and the no hats in banks thing. They also went for heavy lectures on the etiquette for dealing with cops and staying out of jail, as well as the fact that if it ever came down to my word against a girl's, I was going the be the one in all the trouble.

Now granted, I never got the "people will look at you like you're stealing because of your race" talk. But I did get the "you can't go onto this side of town, or there, or there, because people will rob and/or assault you because you are white" talk.

What I'm saying is that I thought talks like these were what parenting is all about - letting you child know about the specific social dangers inherent to their biology they they won't even think about as children.

Maybe I just had exceptional parents, but I thought most parents did this for their kids at some point.
 
2013-05-15 08:02:06 PM  

Infernalist: If you're angry, blame our older generations for being retarded.


i do, by blasting NWA into the windows of old folks homes.
 
2013-05-15 08:02:10 PM  

Bumblefark: Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.


Don't be silly, it's not a law, it's a check box.  Look at the enrollment statistics for any college you like and there's your evidence.

I'll tell you what, I'll even make it easy on you.  I bet you can't find a single University program, undergraduate, MD, JD, PhD, etc., where it doesn't matter what race or sex you are, the statistics (GPA, SAT, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the same.  I bet you can't find one.
 
2013-05-15 08:04:14 PM  
When I see black CEO's running the world i'll get upset. This is a non story.
 
2013-05-15 08:06:26 PM  

lennavan: I'll tell you what, I'll even make it easy on you.  I bet you can't find a single University program, undergraduate, MD, JD, PhD, etc., where it doesn't matter what race or sex you are, the statistics (GPA, SAT, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the same.  I bet you can't find one.


uh... pull the analysis down to just the bachelor's degree and include 'chinese nationals' and similar in your grad. school analysis/argument. then, hand your fellowship to the chinese kid next to you who's getting 10kUSD a year more than you from his government. then blame someone else for the fact that the US is slipping in STEM'ish jobs.

poor whites and black need to bumrush da system.
 
2013-05-15 08:07:24 PM  

utah dude: uh... pull the analysis down to just the bachelor's degree and include 'chinese nationals' and similar in your grad. school analysis/argument. then, hand your fellowship to the chinese kid next to you who's getting 10kUSD a year more than you from his government. then blame someone else for the fact that the US is slipping in STEM'ish jobs.

poor whites and black need to bumrush da system.


grr. s/his/his or her/
s/black/blacks/
 
2013-05-15 08:08:10 PM  

Mr.Man: When I see black CEO's running the world i'll get upset. This is a non story.


It used to be "president" and "free world".

Time are-a-changin.
 
2013-05-15 08:11:24 PM  

super_grass: Mr.Man: When I see black CEO's running the world i'll get upset. This is a non story.

It used to be "president" and "free world".

Time are-a-changin.


i don't care what color/sexual orientation my CEO is as long as we're all kicking ass together tryin' to squash china, etc. forsure. people, it's not about skin color or sex or age or money, it's about america and trying to kick some ass. stop being weenies and get on the ball.
 
2013-05-15 08:33:57 PM  
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-05-15 08:34:09 PM  

TigersorHawksorBoth: As someone who holds degrees from both Iowa and Columbia, I'm getting a kick out of...


So did you apply for the scholarship?

/also from Iowa
 
2013-05-15 08:38:08 PM  

The Angry Hand of God:


Wrong thread?

[checks the china goo thread]

Wrong thread.
 
2013-05-15 08:39:25 PM  

BigNumber12: Bumblefark: Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

Your careful wording is technically accurate - because of pushback like that in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, Universities, supported by the Supreme Court (Grutter v. Bollinger), have been very careful to obfuscate and portray their selection methods as "complex," so as to avoid providing physical evidence of a quota system. So, I'll give you that.

Not calling it that, however, does not change the fact that race-based admissions processes like that challenged in Grutter do in fact exist, with the goal of promoting diversity. The very existence of such a program, by definition, is evidence that racial factors are being used to manually alter the recipients of enrollment slots.


Who said that race isn't considered in admissions decisions? Of course it is.

I just said that practice looks nothing like the scenario you painted above. What you implied is a legally mandated system of racial preference for otherwise unqualified candidates. In short, a quota system. No such beast exists.

(Likewise, I don't think you're going to find much empirical evidence for the assertion that such race-sensitive admission policies have had any appreciable impact on white university enrollment rates -- the second, and more troubling, assertion in your nightmare scenario. But, I'll let you have a look at the research yourself, and come to your own conclusions.)

You can suggest that there still is a quota system, and it's just hidden really well with a more complex set of entrance criteria. But, at a certain point, you're just abusing the plain meaning of the term, "quota." Most schools, to include the one I worked at, were pretty transparent about the fact that promoting minority student enrollment was a goal for them. They were also quite transparent about they go about doing that in terms of their entrance policies. (They have to: university admissions are a highly regulated affair, by law.) And what they're doing amounts to: not all that much, at all.

And a great many of them have pretty much thrown in the towel after Grutter, which has had a real effect on minority enrollment rates, so the suggestion that the case is simply a passive witness to "what universities are doing anyway" just doesn't hold up well in the face of empirical evidence.
 
2013-05-15 08:45:20 PM  
ProfessorOhki:
Funny, I heard both, "keep hands on the steering wheel when pulled over, don't reach for registration until asked" and "don't obscure your face in a bank" as a kid. Maybe it just a matter of having parents who don't want you to end up in potentially dangerous and wholly avoidable situations?

Store, not bank. Bank is obvious, no matter what shade you are. I told him about a little experiment I and three of my shipmates tried when I was in my early 20's and in the Navy. Two black guys, an Filipino and a white guy from Georgia who couldn't believe that racism was still prevalent in the mid 80's.
We all went down to the mall in Norfolk, Virginia dressed in jeans and jackets and tshirts and athletic shoes, and I handed him my new digital watch. It had a stopwatch function, and I told him to start it when I entered a store chosen at random and stop it when the first employee came up to me and asked "may I help you?" (code for "I'm watching your ass").

I walked into the store. The employee came up to me, as promised, and asked "may I help you". I said "no thank you" and left. Total time = 17 seconds. Didn't even have time to pick up anything.
The Filipino walked into the same store. His time was almost three minutes.
The other black guy walked in, as soon as he picked an item up the employee popped the question. Time = 36 seconds.
Then the white guy strolled in. Looked around, up and down the aisles, picked stuff up, put it down, looked around some more. No employees. He had to go find one. Total time = 5 minutes 22 seconds.
If we had wanted to steal that store blind, all I and the other black guy would have to do was walk around the store and make noise, with the Filipno as a backup diversion, while the white guy took everything that wasn't nailed down.

Now I realize the plural of anecdote is not data. but if you ask any of the black people, especially black males that frequent FARK, you will get similar stories. There's a difference between "dangerous and avoidable situations" in general, and "dangerous and avoidable situations that happen because you're black".

The second takes special care. It's also why black males die more often than white males from stress related illnesses. A lifetime of worrying about sh*t like this can take it's toll on a person.
 
2013-05-15 08:45:29 PM  

ChrisDe: JerseyTim: Heck, I would have gotten rid of it just based on the Iowa thing.

In addition, potential recipients are not allowed to study law, medicine, dentistry, veterinary surgery or theology, and must move back to Iowa for at least two years after graduating.

[cf2s1.cbncdn.com image 280x280]


Eh, what ever.  Des Moines is a great place to live.
 
2013-05-15 08:47:36 PM  

Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.


I don't know about students, but it's definitely a factor in things like police and fire department hirings in many urban areas.  In Boston, it came about through federal court rulings and subsequent departmental hiring regulations, rather than a single statute I can point to, for instance.  You want a citation, you're going to have to dig it out yourself; I get $250 an hour for legal research.

A good start for a layman is Common Ground:  http://www.amazon.com/Common-Ground-Turbulent-American-Families/dp/03 9 4746163

I'm not saying that means we should do away with affirmative action today, but pretending the side effect doesn't exist, and doesn't hurt a small but measurable number of white applicants each year...not to mention depriving tax payers of better candidates...is factually incorrect.

I happen to think it's a price we have to pay now for past injustice.  But it's not a price we have to pay indefinitely.

Note that my analysis doesn't change with the color of whoever happens to be in the minority at the moment.
 
2013-05-15 08:47:49 PM  

super_grass: Bumblefark: super_grass: Bumblefark: BigNumber12: Bumblefark: I see you're among the irony impaired. Ok -- I'll try to speak in literal terms, and slowly enough that you might be able to follow what I am saying:

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are depicting a practice that essentially has no bearing on reality, and exists mostly as the fevered nightmare of closeted bigots everywhere. I think you are a closeted bigot. You sound like a closeted bigot.

Any of this getting through, sport?

That's sweet - things don't exist because you say they don't.

Also, congratulations on the fashionable use of the insult "bigot." It seems to be all the rage these days when attempting to shut down dialogue and intimidate one's opposition into silence.

Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

It's cool. I'll wait.

There's no law saying that people must discriminate against minorities as well, so clearly discrimination against them do not exist.

[freemarketmojo.files.wordpress.com image 405x271]

Why, yes, I *do* think the goal posts look better back there.

Nice jerb.

/should I explain why that chart doesn't prove what you think it does?

Are you implying that policies don't have side-effects that are not written down? There's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

By the way, passive aggressive dismissal of contradictory data isn't going to prove you any more right either. If you think there's more to the argument, explain it through instead of being wry.


The exchange you stepped into was about the existence or non-existence of quota systems. I interpreted your remark as an attempt to preempt that, maybe because you knew how that argument was going to have to play out. Clearly, I over-read. Dick move on my part.

Yes, of course there is a difference between practice and policy. I just don't think it is all that great of one. So, the chart you showed, for example: to really know if we are looking at significant differences between the racial groups, we'd need to know something about the base rate for applications as well as the within-group variances. We'd also need to know exactly how the different formal criteria (those itemized in the graph, as well as those that are not) are measured and weighted. I personally have no clue in that case. I just know that the information isn't available in the graph, and that it is therefore prone to misinterpretation.
 
2013-05-15 08:57:45 PM  

lennavan: Bumblefark: Well, then let's keep the conversation going. Please point me to the law that apportions enrollment slots to less capable students, based on their skin color.

Don't be silly, it's not a law, it's a check box.  Look at the enrollment statistics for any college you like and there's your evidence.

I'll tell you what, I'll even make it easy on you.  I bet you can't find a single University program, undergraduate, MD, JD, PhD, etc., where it doesn't matter what race or sex you are, the statistics (GPA, SAT, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the same.  I bet you can't find one.


Context -- how does it work?

M