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(ZDNet)   Lotus 1-2-3 86'd   (zdnet.com) divider line 136
    More: Sad, Lotus 1-2-3, personal computing, Ibm PC, MS-DOS, Excel, killer app, program note, office software  
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7078 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2013 at 11:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 10:02:55 AM
Lotus 123 is the Abe Vigoda of software. I just assumed it was dead a decade ago.
 
2013-05-15 10:08:28 AM
I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.
 
2013-05-15 10:40:53 AM
robson.m3rlin.org
RIP Lotus
 
2013-05-15 10:40:55 AM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


Same here.
 
2013-05-15 11:15:13 AM
Lotus, Wordperfect and Harvard Graphics (you could add dBase later I guess too)

Good thing that they combined forces into one package to confront the MSOffice threat.
Wait, WHAT? They didnt? They each came up with their own crap substitutes rather than working together?
What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?

ROFL

/Imagine how different the world would be if those companies could have changed their business models to at least confront the MS monster?
 
2013-05-15 11:21:16 AM

namatad: Wordperfect


I still want reveal codes dammit
 
2013-05-15 11:22:54 AM

namatad: Lotus, Wordperfect and Harvard Graphics (you could add dBase later I guess too)


Ah, the good old days.  I haven't thought of Harvard Graphics in oh so many years....
 
2013-05-15 11:25:29 AM
Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.
 
2013-05-15 11:27:10 AM
Lotus 1-2-3 still exists?  Er, existed?

/what an abomination of a software suite
 
2013-05-15 11:33:58 AM

xanadian: Lotus 1-2-3 still exists?  Er, existed?

/what an abomination of a software suite


1-2-3 isn't/wasn't a "Suite"... it was just a spreadsheet program
 
2013-05-15 11:36:33 AM

Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit


Goddamn, this!^^^
 
2013-05-15 11:38:44 AM

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Open Office requires me to install Java on my machine (at least it did the last time I tried it)... No thanks.
 
2013-05-15 11:39:02 AM

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Every year I download Open Office, create a document, watch it crash, and I delete it from whatever machine I downloaded it to.  There is a lot to be said about stability and Microsoft Excel and Apples Numbers spreadsheet apps have it.
 
2013-05-15 11:39:09 AM
NOOOOO, Kimi's kicking butt this year.  Go Kimi.
 
2013-05-15 11:39:20 AM

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


Off my lawn!  Learning to use their cell based programming language scored me big points at a company I worked for.  I really liked Lotus in those days.

Later I had to help construct a bridge between a Groupwise server and a Lotus Notes server and the scars left me feeling a lot less like.

OK, you kids grab a cookie and tell grandma to fetch my medicine.
 
2013-05-15 11:39:49 AM
But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.
 
2013-05-15 11:40:22 AM

studs up: Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit

Goddamn, this!^^^


When we were transitioning from WordPerfect to MS Word, we joked that instead of offering WYSIWYG, Microsoft offered WYGIWYG.  What you get is what you get.
 
2013-05-15 11:41:30 AM
Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.
 
2013-05-15 11:43:59 AM

jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.


I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.
 
2013-05-15 11:45:48 AM
WYSIWYG FTW!
 
2013-05-15 11:47:19 AM

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while. (If you're really old school, you used VisiCalc instead, but Lotus had eaten its lunch by the early '80s.) I remember playing around with it on an Apple II in my junior high computer club.
 
2013-05-15 11:48:57 AM
But we still have Lotus Symphony, right???
 
2013-05-15 11:49:07 AM

Donnchadha: xanadian: Lotus 1-2-3 still exists?  Er, existed?

/what an abomination of a software suite

1-2-3 isn't/wasn't a "Suite"... it was just a spreadsheet program


Ah, yes, that's right, it was part of a suite that was a total abomination.
 
2013-05-15 11:49:57 AM

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Uh, Lotus Symphony is basically a vendor supported version of Open Office.

//off work on a Domino server...
 
2013-05-15 11:50:06 AM
Back in 1991, my understanding of Lotus 123 helped me as a lowly summer student prove myself in a large advertising firm. I have fond memories and still some Function keys memorized, even though I haven't used it since the late 90s when I was forced to (as I worked at IBM at that time).
 
2013-05-15 11:53:30 AM

FrancoFile: studs up: Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit

Goddamn, this!^^^

When we were transitioning from WordPerfect to MS Word, we joked that instead of offering WYSIWYG, Microsoft offered WYGIWYG.  What you get is what you get.


I guess that the Word form of Reveal Codes is to open the docx file in an XML editor >.<  Sad, really.
 
2013-05-15 11:53:43 AM
Please kill Lotus Notes, too.
 
2013-05-15 11:56:51 AM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


Not so! My youngest brother will be in mourning. He was a die-hard Lotus 1-2-3 fan back in the day, and considered Excel to be a clearly inferior product. It really chapped his hide that one employer after another insisted on using the MS Office suite.

/accountants can be weird
//btw, subby...I liked the subtle double entendre about '86
 
2013-05-15 11:57:58 AM

studs up: Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit

Goddamn, this!^^^


Outlining in WP was so farking amazing.
 
2013-05-15 11:59:08 AM
Shft + F7

A number of huge law firms in DC dropped a ton of money putting all their standard documents into WP v5.1. They didn't migrate to Word until the late 2000s.
 
2013-05-15 11:59:52 AM
I was too cheap to buy lotus 1-2-3, so I went with Quattro Pro instead.  You could set it to use the lotus menus so it was the same for the most part.  (They got sued over that.  I don't remember who won.)
 
2013-05-15 12:00:02 PM

xanadian: Donnchadha: xanadian: Lotus 1-2-3 still exists?  Er, existed?

/what an abomination of a software suite

1-2-3 isn't/wasn't a "Suite"... it was just a spreadsheet program

Ah, yes, that's right, it was part of a suite that was a total abomination.


It had it's good qualities, as I recall.  I just can't recall exactly what they were....
 
2013-05-15 12:00:05 PM

SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.


Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.
 
2013-05-15 12:00:46 PM

Big_Fat_Liar: It had it's


Doh! preview preview preview
 
2013-05-15 12:02:21 PM

namatad: Good thing that they combined forces into one package to confront the MSOffice threat.
Wait, WHAT? They didnt? They each came up with their own crap substitutes rather than working together?
What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?


Yeah, there'd be no concern about restraint of trade or anti-trust issues with such collusion.
 
2013-05-15 12:03:11 PM

Stone Meadow: Not so! My youngest brother will be in mourning. He was a die-hard Lotus 1-2-3 fan back in the day, and considered Excel to be a clearly inferior product. It really chapped his hide that one employer after another insisted on using the MS Office suite.


Superior, until MS Office suite. 
Lotus never had a superior word processor. By not merging with WP, they ended up with a Word clone. YAWNNNNNNNN
Add in the pricing trap. Why should we lower the price on our SUPERIOR PRODUCT!!!!!
To increase the number of users and maintain market share. DUH.

Office might have been crappy, but they increased the size of the market, which destroyed Lotus' market share.

/so farking glad when people FINALLY stopped asking for a "version which will work on lotus". FARK you! We have an excel version. Grow up already.
 
2013-05-15 12:03:31 PM

labman: I was too cheap to buy lotus 1-2-3, so I went with Quattro Pro instead.  You could set it to use the lotus menus so it was the same for the most part.  (They got sued over that.  I don't remember who won.)


Microsoft Word for a while had a mode where it used the WordPerfect hotkeys.  Of course, F11 (reveal codes) did nothing but bring up a help dialog where you learned that reveal codes doesn't exist,
 
2013-05-15 12:07:07 PM

CheatCommando: namatad: Good thing that they combined forces into one package to confront the MSOffice threat.
Wait, WHAT? They didnt? They each came up with their own crap substitutes rather than working together?
What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?

Yeah, there'd be no concern about restraint of trade or anti-trust issues with such collusion.


LOL
no really, how would that have been antitrust?
3 separate software companies merge. they dont have competing products. so no problem there.
They continue to sell the 3 parts separately. so no problem there.
They bundle the parts and sell the suite, which is exactly what the MS competition is doing.

so yah, where is the antitrust again?
And yes, I could see MS trying to sue them to block this, but only as a stopgap until MS had taken over the world.
lol
 
2013-05-15 12:07:18 PM

Myria: SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.

Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.


I can't laugh.  We still use an AS/400 emulating System/36 code.  Custom in-house software that we've never been able to find a replacement for that we like.
I have a 3486 dual session terminal on my side desk, and I use it every working day.
 
2013-05-15 12:07:26 PM

Myria: SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.

Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.


That might actually be a terminal emulator with the actual system running on a mainframe or Unix system. There are a lot of legacy systems like that, and replacing them with something new can be ridiculously expensive.

The funny thing is, with web-based "software as a service" we are returning to that model, just with a web browser instead of a terminal. The circle of software keeps turning...
 
2013-05-15 12:14:29 PM
nekom: I can't laugh.  We still use an AS/400 emulating System/36 code.  Custom in-house software that we've never been able to find a replacement for that we like.
I have a 3486 dual session terminal on my side desk, and I use it every working day.


At least System/36 is designed to be emulated like that.  I mean, that was one of its original selling points.
 
2013-05-15 12:15:34 PM

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).
 
2013-05-15 12:17:50 PM
cdn-static.zdnet.com

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr
 
2013-05-15 12:18:14 PM

Myria: At least System/36 is designed to be emulated like that.  I mean, that was one of its original selling points.


Never mind; this is me confusing old IBM machines.
 
2013-05-15 12:18:39 PM
I thought the last Eniac that it ran on was shut down years ago.

speaking of which - are there any Eniac plans anywhere?  anyone ever build a second Eniac just for fun?
 
2013-05-15 12:24:01 PM

Myria: nekom: I can't laugh.  We still use an AS/400 emulating System/36 code.  Custom in-house software that we've never been able to find a replacement for that we like.
I have a 3486 dual session terminal on my side desk, and I use it every working day.

At least System/36 is designed to be emulated like that.  I mean, that was one of its original selling points.


Isnt this true for a LOT of IBMs mid and main systems?
Doesnt the latest version of mainframe run, well, pretty much everything these days?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_zEnterprise_System#Operating_system s
ROFL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system) yup used VM and CMS back in college
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z/OS yup - used MVS back in college and for work afterwards

sigh - I still miss REXX
 
2013-05-15 12:24:19 PM

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


I used Lotus Notes up until about 2004
 
2013-05-15 12:26:42 PM

namatad: /Imagine how different the world would be if those companies could have changed their business models to at least confront the MS monster?


Wouldn't of made any difference what so ever.  You couldn't write a word processor that'd fire up and open documents faster than Word, same for all the others really.  The reason isn't that Microsoft's programmers where shiat hot... it's that Microsoft cheat.   "Here are the complete API's for making a Windows program (except for the hidden bits we won't tell you about which are 10x faster)" doesn't really make it a fair fight.

Of course back in the day this was all supposition and Microsoft did use the fact that Office was faster than SmartSuite (and others) in its marketing material; today we know the truth of the matter: Never trust the Beast of Redmond, they lie.
 
2013-05-15 12:26:57 PM

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr


You might want to recheck that. The thing about spreadsheets, they have columns.
 
2013-05-15 12:27:04 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-15 12:28:20 PM

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


I remember the day we were officially off of Notes, opting for Exchange/SharePoint instead.  It was a good day...
 
2013-05-15 12:28:32 PM

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while. (If you're really old school, you used VisiCalc instead, but Lotus had eaten its lunch by the early '80s.) I remember playing around with it on an Apple II in my junior high computer club.


Visicalc didn't interest me much back then, I was too busy playing Ultima IV and V on my Apple IIe and in between that, writing my own RPGs in 6502 assembly.
 
2013-05-15 12:28:34 PM
Because of changes in roles over the years, I still probably have more cockpit time with Lotus 1-2-3 than any other spreadsheet.  I still find myself typing / R F to format a range of cells.

And I *still* don't miss the damn thing.
 
2013-05-15 12:29:09 PM

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr


That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"
 
2013-05-15 12:29:19 PM

Tax Boy: [i.imgur.com image 850x478]


I have no idea what that is, but, now I'll be in my bunk trying to figure it out.
 
2013-05-15 12:32:53 PM
I remember one of their commercials touting how awesome their software was while a business man stared out of his office window at the city lit up at night.  If your software was so great, how come you have to be at work in the middle of the night?

/Professional Excel Developer
 
2013-05-15 12:33:43 PM

waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).


Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.

/ Our homegrown database for customer issues/cases is being obsoleted out to use the salesforce.com which provides roughly half the functionality we had before.
 
2013-05-15 12:34:23 PM

Myria: SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.

Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.


FoxPro I think.
 
2013-05-15 12:38:31 PM

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while.


Believe it or not, not everyone "old school" actually used spreadsheets.  I never did, except for briefly playing around with some early Atari 8-bit spreadsheet.  I don't think I used a spreadsheet again until Excel in the last decade or so.
 
2013-05-15 12:42:10 PM

King Something: RIP Lotus


images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-15 12:43:39 PM

2wolves: Shft + F7


I have this macro assigned to shift-f7 in OO.  Do I know how it works?  No. I had a guy go through and customize open office when we finally had to kill wordperfect 8 for stability issues 2 years ago.

sub OneInHanging
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem define variables
dim document   as object
dim dispatcher as object
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem get access to the document
document   = ThisComponent.CurrentController.Frame
dispatcher = createUnoService("com.sun.star.frame.DispatchHelper")
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args1(0) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args1(0).Name = "Tabstops.TabStops"
args1(0).Value = Array(Array(0,com.sun.star.style.TabAlign.DEFAULT,"."," "))
dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:Tabstops", "", 0, args1())
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args2(7) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args2(0).Name = "LeftRightMargin.LeftMargin"
args2(0).Value = 0
args2(1).Name = "LeftRightMargin.TextLeftMargin"
args2(1).Value = 2540
args2(2).Name = "LeftRightMargin.RightMargin"
args2(2).Value = 0
args2(3).Name = "LeftRightMargin.LeftRelMargin"
args2(3).Value = 100
args2(4).Name = "LeftRightMargin.RightRelMargin"
args2(4).Value = 100
args2(5).Name = "LeftRightMargin.FirstLineIndent"
args2(5).Value = -2540
args2(6).Name = "LeftRightMargin.FirstLineRelIdent"
args2(6).Value = 100
args2(7).Name = "LeftRightMargin.AutoFirst"
args2(7).Value = false
dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:LeftRightMargin", "", 0, args2())

end sub
 
2013-05-15 12:51:48 PM

Donnchadha


Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.
 
2013-05-15 12:57:52 PM
RIP
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-15 01:01:57 PM

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


Same here. I wanted them and thought they looked neat, just couldn't ever afford them.
 
2013-05-15 01:02:36 PM

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Fark Oracle.

Libre Office ftw.
 
2013-05-15 01:12:21 PM

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


This.  And in other news the Lotus Suite of products still existed in 2013
 
2013-05-15 01:17:57 PM

Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit


The best programmer I've ever met had some pretty strong opinions about user interface design - so much so, that he wrote a book about it. He once told me that "reveal codes" is proof that Word Perfect's user interface is broken.
 
2013-05-15 01:29:50 PM
Dadoo:

The best programmer I've ever met had some pretty strong opinions about user interface design - so much so, that he wrote a book about it. He once told me that "reveal codes" is proof that Word Perfect's user interface is broken.

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?
 
2013-05-15 01:31:04 PM

soopey: waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).

Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.


I haven't used Notes in years.  When I did, it was far easier to upgrade and manage than the "Rational" Products.

In order to install a Rational product, you have to first intall the IBM installer which in and of itself is ridiculous.  If you are lucky, ReqPro will install after only 1 failed attempt.  RSA or RAD takes an hour to install.  If you plan to upgrade to a newer version, you are better off reimaging the entire machine before starting.

IBM makes decent mainframe software.  Their PC software is worse than Adobe's.
 
2013-05-15 01:31:25 PM

Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit


I miss having the function keys on the left.
 
2013-05-15 01:36:47 PM

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while. (If you're really old school, you used VisiCalc instead, but Lotus had eaten its lunch by the early '80s.) I remember playing around with it on an Apple II in my junior high computer club.


That's only true if you were using toy computers. I've never used anything from Lotus, either. I was lucky enough to have cut my programming teeth on DEC and Data General computers and, as far as I know, Lotus didn't exist for those. Unlike most people, I was using 32-bit computers in 1983, so you can get off my lawn.

Surprisingly, I've never used a spreadsheet program - ever. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
 
2013-05-15 01:38:14 PM

Stone Meadow: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Not so! My youngest brother will be in mourning. He was a die-hard Lotus 1-2-3 fan back in the day, and considered Excel to be a clearly inferior product. It really chapped his hide that one employer after another insisted on using the MS Office suite.

/accountants can be weird
//btw, subby...I liked the subtle double entendre about '86


It didn't exactly help Excel's reputation when Microsoft kept the same wrong formula for payment for an annuity for a half dozen years after the blunder became common knowledge.
 
2013-05-15 01:39:16 PM

namatad: Lotus, Wordperfect and Harvard Graphics (you could add dBase later I guess too)

Good thing that they combined forces into one package to confront the MSOffice threat.
Wait, WHAT? They didnt? They each came up with their own crap substitutes rather than working together?
What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?

ROFL

/Imagine how different the world would be if those companies could have changed their business models to at least confront the MS monster?


Oh man, I sold soooooo many XTs with that package! $3000 a pop with an amber monitor!
 
2013-05-15 01:41:37 PM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


I write on AmiPro 3.0.  Had to install WinXP on an old machine to use it; it doesn't work on Vista +

i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-15 01:44:01 PM
Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.
 
2013-05-15 01:44:13 PM

HeartBurnKid: gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.

Fark Oracle.

Libre Office ftw.


Can it do linear programming?

/this is important to me
 
2013-05-15 01:48:25 PM

Vaneshi: Dadoo:

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?


If you need to say that to make yourself feel better, fine, but no, that's not true. Have you ever met someone who was so good at what he/she does, they made the person who was second-best look like a moron? That was this guy. I'd put him on par with Dennis Ritchie or Guy Steele.
 
2013-05-15 01:57:34 PM

Dadoo: Vaneshi: Dadoo:

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?

If you need to say that to make yourself feel better, fine, but no, that's not true. Have you ever met someone who was so good at what he/she does, they made the person who was second-best look like a moron? That was this guy. I'd put him on par with Dennis Ritchie or Guy Steele.


What book?
 
2013-05-15 02:08:27 PM

bark_atda_moon: soopey: waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).

Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.

I haven't used Notes in years.  When I did, it was far easier to upgrade and manage than the "Rational" Products.

In order to install a Rational product, you have to first intall the IBM installer which in and of itself is ridiculous.  If you are lucky, ReqPro will install after only 1 failed attempt.  RSA or RAD takes an hour to install.  If you plan to upgrade to a newer version, you are better off reimaging the entire machine before starting.

IBM makes decent mainframe software.  Their PC software is worse than Adobe's.


Yeah, ClearCase drove me nuts, but I didn't use it when I was using Notes, so maybe that pain would feel different side-by-side.

Config Specs for the ridiculous Boeing projects we would sub for are insane. When your best bet is to put a guy on updating a VM for two days, then image that VM, there's something wrong with your software and your version control system.
 
2013-05-15 02:16:18 PM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


I AM old school and still have a Lotus 1-2-3 Ver. 1.1A manual, along with other useless trash. At one job in the early 80s, our controller reluctantly allowed us to put a PC on his desk for that newfangled email. Minimum memory because he didn't want to waste money. Then he opened Lotus. By the end of the month we had maxed out the memory and added an expansion card.
 
2013-05-15 02:22:34 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.


Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.


And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...
 
2013-05-15 02:24:27 PM

gingerjet: gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.

Every year I download Open Office, create a document, watch it crash, and I delete it from whatever machine I downloaded it to.  There is a lot to be said about stability and Microsoft Excel and Apples Numbers spreadsheet apps have it.


How do you manage that?  I just use the word processor and learn to hate the thing:
start:
"You saved something in a microsoft format, the horrors!  Do you want to recover it"?
No.
"how should you save the recovered file?
CANCEL!

Write document.  At some point you hit one of the magic sequences that would cause Clippie to pop up on the screen.  LibreOffice understands that you don't want to see Clippie.  Instead, they automatically do whatever Clippie would ask you to do and let you figure out the magic sequence to make it go back to normal.

Personally, I'd be happier if it just crashed.
/Posting from Linux
//Still can't stand even LibreOffice.
 
2013-05-15 02:28:01 PM

Myria: nekom: I can't laugh.  We still use an AS/400 emulating System/36 code.  Custom in-house software that we've never been able to find a replacement for that we like.
I have a 3486 dual session terminal on my side desk, and I use it every working day.

At least System/36 is designed to be emulated like that.  I mean, that was one of its original selling points.


AS/400 was switched to being run in emulation on [customized 33-bit] PowerPCs back in the '90s.  I wouldn't be surprised if it has multiple layers now.  IBM will run software written for ENIAC forever.
 
2013-05-15 02:33:50 PM

Donnchadha


Englebert Slaptyback: I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.

And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...


*sigh* The point - which soared majestically over your head - is that the company president had a salary of $150000 in column F and a bonus of $100000 in column G. IOW, he would have received $250000 for that year, not $150000 as stated in the post that you quoted.

Also you should note that I specified the president's "visible yearly compensation" precisely because the other columns (if any) were not visible.
 
2013-05-15 02:35:50 PM
At one job I had to use Lotus Notes for email, calendar, and accessing internal documents.

I hated; I hated so much.
 
2013-05-15 02:36:12 PM
Lotus: The Other Corel (TM)
 
2013-05-15 02:47:04 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Englebert Slaptyback: I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.

And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...


*sigh* The point - which soared majestically over your head - is that the company president had a salary of $150000 in column F and a bonus of $100000 in column G. IOW, he would have received $250000 for that year, not $150000 as stated in the post that you quoted.

Also you should note that I specified the president's "visible yearly compensation" precisely because the other columns (if any) were not visible.


My point... which sailed even more majestically over your head... is that that was his compensation *on the books*. You don't know what he was making *off the books* and maybe he total compensation was $4.5 billion.

Even more important, however, is that we're debating a screenshot of a spreadsheet tutorial.
 
2013-05-15 02:51:26 PM

Donnchadha


Even more important, however, is that we're debating a screenshot of a spreadsheet tutorial.


... from 20 years ago, for a product that no longer exists. Yeah, I thought about that one.

*hands Donnchadha a refreshing beverage*
 
2013-05-15 03:00:39 PM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...
 
2013-05-15 03:00:58 PM
Lotus was blamed for causing the S&L financial crisis in the 90's.  Many a nitwit used it to project bogus projections with bad calculations.  But because these projections were 'computerized' they were taken as gospel.  R.I.P.
i.technet.microsoft.com
 
2013-05-15 03:05:22 PM

theurge14: Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.


That's what killed WordPerfect as well. Well, that and when they did manage to get a Windows version out it was a bloated, buggy pile of crap.
 
2013-05-15 03:06:42 PM

RyansPrivates: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...


I've switched out the program disk and the DOS disk.  I've saved and loaded programs on cassette tape (granted I was very young then), I used to run a BBS and had a Fidonet node.  Just never touched anything Lotus that I recall.

/slmr, dsz, frontdoor 2.02j.  press <ESC> twice for BBS, thedraw, cshow, etc.
 
2013-05-15 03:25:21 PM

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


Sigh. You youngsters...

Started with Multiplan (for the C-64 no less) then switched to Lotus-123. Then Framework, then Quatro-Pro. Then Excel.
 
2013-05-15 03:27:10 PM

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


Yes, it sucked.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:48 PM

Ed Grubermann: theurge14: Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.

That's what killed WordPerfect as well. Well, that and when they did manage to get a Windows version out it was a bloated, buggy pile of crap.


Wasn't WordPerfect 5.1 the big success?  It was....and it had FREE tech support.  That version was universally loved....until Novell bought WP in the early 90s.  First they eliminated the free tech support.  Then they spent gazillions on developing a version that EMULATED a GUI (what was the version...6 or so?)....and it tanked like gangbusters.  End of story for WP (and it didn't help Novell either).

But I do recall Lotus 123 being the big player for a while....so much so that users called 123 "Lotus" (kinda like Kleenex or Xerox).  Never did figure out who's bright idea it was to select the name Ami Pro...by the time they changed it to Word Pro it was a bit late in the game to make any difference.
 
2013-05-15 03:51:07 PM

Myria: Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software. They even run it on XP in a DOS box, it's sad, really.


Are you sure it is DOS?  Because you can write Win32 and Win64 console programs for Windows that open in a text mode full screen.  They can look old school, but are otherwise modern under the hood.
 
2013-05-15 04:17:15 PM
Punch cards noobz.
jk
 
2013-05-15 04:22:33 PM

Dinjiin: Myria: Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software. They even run it on XP in a DOS box, it's sad, really.

Are you sure it is DOS?  Because you can write Win32 and Win64 console programs for Windows that open in a text mode full screen.  They can look old school, but are otherwise modern under the hood.


Probably DOS. I'm still supporting a DOS FoxPro 2.5 application that nobody wants to give up. Well at least until we finish our Windows 7 rollout. It does not work on Win 7 and management does not want to pay for somebody to figure out how to run it in a DOSBox on Win 7.
 
2013-05-15 04:54:38 PM

Slaves2Darkness: management does not want to pay for somebody to figure out how to run it in a DOSBox on Win 7.


You realise there is quite a large difference between the statement you made and the statement you implied?

You're gonna get that thing working and it won't cost anyone anything extra, ain't life grand.  And if you don't, they'll find another monkey to replace you.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:45 PM

Russ1642: Lotus 123 is the Abe Vigoda of software. I just assumed it was dead a decade ago.


Hey...
 
2013-05-15 04:58:19 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

Yes, it sucked.


It still sucks.
 
2013-05-15 05:01:18 PM

nekom: RyansPrivates: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...

I've switched out the program disk and the DOS disk.  I've saved and loaded programs on cassette tape (granted I was very young then), I used to run a BBS and had a Fidonet node.  Just never touched anything Lotus that I recall.

/slmr, dsz, frontdoor 2.02j.  press <ESC> twice for BBS, thedraw, cshow, etc.


touche...best friend had a VIC-20 with a cassette drive damn thing never worked like it was supposed to.  Remember many a late night trying to war dial looking for BBS connections (or anything for that matter).  Found a bank connection once but didn't do anything with it. I remember one BBS where I uploaded the game "Digger" only to figure out that it was pirated.  I went into a virtual panic and sent a message to the SYSOP.  He didn't seem to worry about it too much, but took it down anyway.

Was so excited when I went off to college and saw Kermit for the first time, only to be blown away by the first web page I saw a few years later.
 
2013-05-15 05:02:55 PM

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


So, I'll go ahead and guess you work for IBM...
 
2013-05-15 05:11:19 PM
cue grumpy cat...

good riddance. notes sucks. dominos suck. biatch to manage...
 
2013-05-15 05:35:00 PM

Vaneshi: namatad: /Imagine how different the world would be if those companies could have changed their business models to at least confront the MS monster?

Wouldn't of made any difference what so ever.  You couldn't write a word processor that'd fire up and open documents faster than Word, same for all the others really.  The reason isn't that Microsoft's programmers where shiat hot... it's that Microsoft cheat.   "Here are the complete API's for making a Windows program (except for the hidden bits we won't tell you about which are 10x faster)" doesn't really make it a fair fight.

Of course back in the day this was all supposition and Microsoft did use the fact that Office was faster than SmartSuite (and others) in its marketing material; today we know the truth of the matter: Never trust the Beast of Redmond, they lie.


Kinda like Apple with browsers on the iphone?  They are all wrappers for a slower version of safari?
 
2013-05-15 05:51:13 PM

RyansPrivates: By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...


Lotus was an IBM thing.  Commodore 64/128 users had geoCALC included with our GEOS disks.  Amiga users could get Turbo Calc.
 
2013-05-15 05:54:19 PM

Pardon Me Sultan: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

So, I'll go ahead and guess you work for IBM...


If there's one thing IBM is good at, it's vendor lock-in.  I work for a large company that still uses Lotus Notes, and as much as everyone would like to move away from it, the amount of work that would be involved in switching to anything else is terrifying.

/don't even get me started on CM Synergy
 
2013-05-15 06:19:13 PM
They never made a version of it for the Babbage Analytical Engine, so I didn't use it.

/leeks on my belt
//before we discovered onions
 
2013-05-15 06:22:04 PM

2wolves: Shft + F7

A number of huge law firms in DC dropped a ton of money putting all their standard documents into WP v5.1. They didn't migrate to Word until the late 2000s.



If it ain't broke...

As for true nightmare fuel, how about WordStar?
 
2013-05-15 06:28:23 PM

SamWaters: Lotus was blamed for causing the S&L financial crisis in the 90's.  Many a nitwit used it to project bogus projections with bad calculations.  But because these projections were 'computerized' they were taken as gospel.  R.I.P.


It's funny that we don't hear anyone blaming Microsoft for the austerity fiasco.
 
2013-05-15 06:38:52 PM
VI will never die.
 
2013-05-15 06:45:41 PM

Donnchadha: xanadian: Lotus 1-2-3 still exists?  Er, existed?

/what an abomination of a software suite

1-2-3 isn't/wasn't a "Suite"... it was just a spreadsheet program


1. Spreadsheet
2. Charting/Graphing
3. Database

At least at one point that I recall it was touted as a type of "suite" because it offered 3 distinct functions where competing programs at the time only offered one.  But that was back under DOS 3.2, so I'll have to consult the onion on my belt to be sure.
 
2013-05-15 06:52:04 PM
I don't know about 1-2-3, but Lotus Notes sucks(ed) donkey dick.
 
2013-05-15 07:03:25 PM

common sense is an oxymoron: 2wolves: Shft + F7

A number of huge law firms in DC dropped a ton of money putting all their standard documents into WP v5.1. They didn't migrate to Word until the late 2000s.

If it ain't broke...

As for true nightmare fuel, how about WordStar?


And PeachCalc. WordStar had that cool markup language going for it, though.
 
2013-05-15 07:09:37 PM

namatad: What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?


Not only that, but all three figured that Windows was just a fad.

MS Office was, early on, the only game in town for office software under windows.

Lotus, Quattro, Wordperfect, dBase never caught up.

Seequinn: But that was back under DOS 3.2, so I'll have to consult the onion on my belt to be sure.


You're onion is true, young one.  Visicalc required an add on for graphing, and lotus added a few database style functions to make it pretend to be a database... but it wasn't anywhere near as powerful as dbase... but 123 people used it instead of a database anyway...
 
2013-05-15 07:22:09 PM

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


There are many reasons why Lotus Notes makes the worst software list every year.  It looks like it was cobbled together by a bunch of monkeys.  Different parts of it behave differently than others, doesn't follow Windows standards for how buttons work, delete on the keyboard means something different than File->Delete, and on, and on, and on...
 
2013-05-15 07:36:35 PM

Donnchadha: Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Englebert Slaptyback: I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.

And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...


*sigh* The point - which soared majestically over your head - is that the company president had a salary of $150000 in column F and a bonus of $100000 in column G. IOW, he would have received $250000 for that year, not $150000 as stated in the post that you quoted.

Also you should note that I specified the president's "visible yearly compensation" precisely because the other columns (if any) were not visible.

My point... which sailed even more majestically over your head... is that that was his compensation *on the books*. You don't know what he was making *off the books* and maybe he total compensation was $4.5 billion.

Even more important, however, is that we're debating a screenshot of a spreadsheet tutorial.


Take your tinfoil hat and go home.
 
2013-05-15 07:38:03 PM

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr


Half of the employees are managers, and the other half are sales. No productive staff. No support staff. That is a silly company even if it is just a hypothetical example.
 
2013-05-15 08:07:22 PM

Myria: SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.

Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.


You'd be surprised how much old tech lurks in the shadows. A few years ago I was working on a project for a large retailer and discovered their merchandising machines all used as a critical component a piece of software published in PC Magazine in the late 80s. I often wondered if the guy who wrote it ever shopped at any of their stores, not knowing that his program from decades before was running on machines he obliviously walked past without giving them a thought.
 
2013-05-15 08:15:37 PM

Russ1642: I just assumed it was dead a decade ago.


So much this.
 
2013-05-15 08:28:12 PM

TwoHead: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

Off my lawn!  Learning to use their cell based programming language scored me big points at a company I worked for.  I really liked Lotus in those days.

Later I had to help construct a bridge between a Groupwise server and a Lotus Notes server and the scars left me feeling a lot less like.

OK, you kids grab a cookie and tell grandma to fetch my medicine.


Ha! That's nothing. Try bridging msmail and groupwise. "You can't get there from here, you gotta go somewhere else first".

Made it work though. Damn that was a pain.
 
2013-05-15 09:01:46 PM
www.sandsmuseum.com

"I don't have a 1-2-3-, I have a Super Seven!"
 
2013-05-15 09:22:24 PM

common sense is an oxymoron: 2wolves: Shft + F7

A number of huge law firms in DC dropped a ton of money putting all their standard documents into WP v5.1. They didn't migrate to Word until the late 2000s.


If it ain't broke...

As for true nightmare fuel, how about WordStar?


All those years of therapy ruined by one casual post here.

Add CalcStar and DataStar and the trifecta of sick is complete.
 
2013-05-15 09:46:36 PM

2wolves: Shft + F7

A number of huge law firms in DC dropped a ton of money putting all their standard documents into WP v5.1. They didn't migrate to Word until the late 2000s.


Same with several Federal agencies. I had one .pdf document from one agency that required WordPerfect math fonts to render correctly. Still have those fonts, just in case.
 
2013-05-15 09:47:31 PM

soopey: Notes


The large number of people expressing their hatred for Lotus Notes makes me happy. I spent six months contracting for Sprint LTD back in '97-98. God it sucked, and their use of Notes did not help matters.
 
2013-05-15 10:40:59 PM

Russ1642: Lotus 123 is the Abe Vigoda of software. I just assumed it was dead a decade ago.


Done in one
 
2013-05-15 10:53:25 PM

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Fark Open Office. Libre Office FTW

/get with the times
 
2013-05-15 11:04:12 PM
.. and yet, Notes lives on.

BURY THAT farkING THING ALREADY.

Domino sucks. Notes sucks. You are Novell - stop it. Bury it.
 
2013-05-15 11:06:32 PM

nekom: RyansPrivates: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...

I've switched out the program disk and the DOS disk.  I've saved and loaded programs on cassette tape (granted I was very young then), I used to run a BBS and had a Fidonet node.  Just never touched anything Lotus that I recall.

/slmr, dsz, frontdoor 2.02j.  press <ESC> twice for BBS, thedraw, cshow, etc.


I set up and ran a TBBS (with TDBS) system.  that shiat was high end back then.
 
2013-05-16 12:18:42 AM
For all of you WordPerfect fanbois here is a site that explains how to run 5.1 on a modern machine.
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/

Do any of you old schoolers remember this? Did my Bar Mitzvah thank you notes using it. Saved me a ton of time.
www.pcmuseum.ca
 
2013-05-16 12:40:49 AM
i41.tinypic.com

RIP LOTUS EXCEL
 
2013-05-16 01:11:33 AM

Lars The Canadian Viking: VI will never die.


Luxury.  In my day,  we had ed, and we liked it.
 
2013-05-16 06:39:45 AM
I think I learned spreadsheets on Lotus 1-2-3.  On an IBM PS/2.
 
2013-05-16 06:56:57 AM
My dad just recently moved from 1-2-3 for DOS (which dates back to the copy I 'borrowed' from my college computer lab in 1989) a month or so ago. He insisted on using it over my protests, since it was a PITA to get a DOS program to talk to a USB printer. He has all his financial records, shopping lists, etc in 1-2-3 files even today.

I've got him started (reluctantly) using Excel and Open Office... the tech support calls have been pretty scarce lately but for those first couple weeks they were very frequent. It's not easy convincing a 78 year old to try something new after he's been using the old program for 20+ years.
 
2013-05-16 09:18:56 AM
renekmueller.com
RIP Locutus
 
2013-05-16 01:11:34 PM

Pentaxian: For all of you WordPerfect fanbois here is a site that explains how to run 5.1 on a modern machine.
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/

Do any of you old schoolers remember this? Did my Bar Mitzvah thank you notes using it. Saved me a ton of time.
[www.pcmuseum.ca image 200x277]


Our middle school newspaper was composed on the Apple II version of Bankstreet Writer.

/shudders
 
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