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(ZDNet)   Lotus 1-2-3 86'd   (zdnet.com) divider line 136
    More: Sad, Lotus 1-2-3, personal computing, Ibm PC, MS-DOS, Excel, killer app, program note, office software  
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7078 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2013 at 11:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 12:28:20 PM  

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


I remember the day we were officially off of Notes, opting for Exchange/SharePoint instead.  It was a good day...
 
2013-05-15 12:28:32 PM  

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while. (If you're really old school, you used VisiCalc instead, but Lotus had eaten its lunch by the early '80s.) I remember playing around with it on an Apple II in my junior high computer club.


Visicalc didn't interest me much back then, I was too busy playing Ultima IV and V on my Apple IIe and in between that, writing my own RPGs in 6502 assembly.
 
2013-05-15 12:28:34 PM  
Because of changes in roles over the years, I still probably have more cockpit time with Lotus 1-2-3 than any other spreadsheet.  I still find myself typing / R F to format a range of cells.

And I *still* don't miss the damn thing.
 
2013-05-15 12:29:09 PM  

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr


That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"
 
2013-05-15 12:29:19 PM  

Tax Boy: [i.imgur.com image 850x478]


I have no idea what that is, but, now I'll be in my bunk trying to figure it out.
 
2013-05-15 12:32:53 PM  
I remember one of their commercials touting how awesome their software was while a business man stared out of his office window at the city lit up at night.  If your software was so great, how come you have to be at work in the middle of the night?

/Professional Excel Developer
 
2013-05-15 12:33:43 PM  

waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).


Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.

/ Our homegrown database for customer issues/cases is being obsoleted out to use the salesforce.com which provides roughly half the functionality we had before.
 
2013-05-15 12:34:23 PM  

Myria: SuperChuck: Huh. I guess DOS is finally done.

Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software.  They even run it on XP in a DOS box,  it's sad, really.


FoxPro I think.
 
2013-05-15 12:38:31 PM  

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while.


Believe it or not, not everyone "old school" actually used spreadsheets.  I never did, except for briefly playing around with some early Atari 8-bit spreadsheet.  I don't think I used a spreadsheet again until Excel in the last decade or so.
 
2013-05-15 12:42:10 PM  

King Something: RIP Lotus


images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-15 12:43:39 PM  

2wolves: Shft + F7


I have this macro assigned to shift-f7 in OO.  Do I know how it works?  No. I had a guy go through and customize open office when we finally had to kill wordperfect 8 for stability issues 2 years ago.

sub OneInHanging
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem define variables
dim document   as object
dim dispatcher as object
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
rem get access to the document
document   = ThisComponent.CurrentController.Frame
dispatcher = createUnoService("com.sun.star.frame.DispatchHelper")
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args1(0) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args1(0).Name = "Tabstops.TabStops"
args1(0).Value = Array(Array(0,com.sun.star.style.TabAlign.DEFAULT,"."," "))
dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:Tabstops", "", 0, args1())
rem ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dim args2(7) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args2(0).Name = "LeftRightMargin.LeftMargin"
args2(0).Value = 0
args2(1).Name = "LeftRightMargin.TextLeftMargin"
args2(1).Value = 2540
args2(2).Name = "LeftRightMargin.RightMargin"
args2(2).Value = 0
args2(3).Name = "LeftRightMargin.LeftRelMargin"
args2(3).Value = 100
args2(4).Name = "LeftRightMargin.RightRelMargin"
args2(4).Value = 100
args2(5).Name = "LeftRightMargin.FirstLineIndent"
args2(5).Value = -2540
args2(6).Name = "LeftRightMargin.FirstLineRelIdent"
args2(6).Value = 100
args2(7).Name = "LeftRightMargin.AutoFirst"
args2(7).Value = false
dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:LeftRightMargin", "", 0, args2())

end sub
 
2013-05-15 12:51:48 PM  

Donnchadha


Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.
 
2013-05-15 12:57:52 PM  
RIP
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-15 01:01:57 PM  

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


Same here. I wanted them and thought they looked neat, just couldn't ever afford them.
 
2013-05-15 01:02:36 PM  

gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.


Fark Oracle.

Libre Office ftw.
 
2013-05-15 01:12:21 PM  

make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.


This.  And in other news the Lotus Suite of products still existed in 2013
 
2013-05-15 01:17:57 PM  

Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit


The best programmer I've ever met had some pretty strong opinions about user interface design - so much so, that he wrote a book about it. He once told me that "reveal codes" is proof that Word Perfect's user interface is broken.
 
2013-05-15 01:29:50 PM  
Dadoo:

The best programmer I've ever met had some pretty strong opinions about user interface design - so much so, that he wrote a book about it. He once told me that "reveal codes" is proof that Word Perfect's user interface is broken.

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?
 
2013-05-15 01:31:04 PM  

soopey: waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).

Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.


I haven't used Notes in years.  When I did, it was far easier to upgrade and manage than the "Rational" Products.

In order to install a Rational product, you have to first intall the IBM installer which in and of itself is ridiculous.  If you are lucky, ReqPro will install after only 1 failed attempt.  RSA or RAD takes an hour to install.  If you plan to upgrade to a newer version, you are better off reimaging the entire machine before starting.

IBM makes decent mainframe software.  Their PC software is worse than Adobe's.
 
2013-05-15 01:31:25 PM  

Madduck: namatad: Wordperfect

I still want reveal codes dammit


I miss having the function keys on the left.
 
2013-05-15 01:36:47 PM  

Uzzah: make me some tea: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Same here.

You can't be that old school if you never used it, because it was pretty much the only spreadsheet program around for a while. (If you're really old school, you used VisiCalc instead, but Lotus had eaten its lunch by the early '80s.) I remember playing around with it on an Apple II in my junior high computer club.


That's only true if you were using toy computers. I've never used anything from Lotus, either. I was lucky enough to have cut my programming teeth on DEC and Data General computers and, as far as I know, Lotus didn't exist for those. Unlike most people, I was using 32-bit computers in 1983, so you can get off my lawn.

Surprisingly, I've never used a spreadsheet program - ever. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
 
2013-05-15 01:38:14 PM  

Stone Meadow: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

Not so! My youngest brother will be in mourning. He was a die-hard Lotus 1-2-3 fan back in the day, and considered Excel to be a clearly inferior product. It really chapped his hide that one employer after another insisted on using the MS Office suite.

/accountants can be weird
//btw, subby...I liked the subtle double entendre about '86


It didn't exactly help Excel's reputation when Microsoft kept the same wrong formula for payment for an annuity for a half dozen years after the blunder became common knowledge.
 
2013-05-15 01:39:16 PM  

namatad: Lotus, Wordperfect and Harvard Graphics (you could add dBase later I guess too)

Good thing that they combined forces into one package to confront the MSOffice threat.
Wait, WHAT? They didnt? They each came up with their own crap substitutes rather than working together?
What kind of cretins would make that kind of a business decision?

ROFL

/Imagine how different the world would be if those companies could have changed their business models to at least confront the MS monster?


Oh man, I sold soooooo many XTs with that package! $3000 a pop with an amber monitor!
 
2013-05-15 01:41:37 PM  

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


I write on AmiPro 3.0.  Had to install WinXP on an old machine to use it; it doesn't work on Vista +

i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-15 01:44:01 PM  
Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.
 
2013-05-15 01:44:13 PM  

HeartBurnKid: gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.

Fark Oracle.

Libre Office ftw.


Can it do linear programming?

/this is important to me
 
2013-05-15 01:48:25 PM  

Vaneshi: Dadoo:

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?


If you need to say that to make yourself feel better, fine, but no, that's not true. Have you ever met someone who was so good at what he/she does, they made the person who was second-best look like a moron? That was this guy. I'd put him on par with Dennis Ritchie or Guy Steele.
 
2013-05-15 01:57:34 PM  

Dadoo: Vaneshi: Dadoo:

Which really does go to show you that even if you write a book, you can still be a moron, let me guess the guy couldn't compile code in his head or visualise UI designs without it all being drawn out for him either?

If you need to say that to make yourself feel better, fine, but no, that's not true. Have you ever met someone who was so good at what he/she does, they made the person who was second-best look like a moron? That was this guy. I'd put him on par with Dennis Ritchie or Guy Steele.


What book?
 
2013-05-15 02:08:27 PM  

bark_atda_moon: soopey: waterrockets: soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.

I used to feel the same way, until I started using IBM's Rational products (the most ironic name of any software).

Rational ClearCase, reqPro, ClearQuest, Robot. Take your pick. My company uses all of them. Notes is the worst.

I haven't used Notes in years.  When I did, it was far easier to upgrade and manage than the "Rational" Products.

In order to install a Rational product, you have to first intall the IBM installer which in and of itself is ridiculous.  If you are lucky, ReqPro will install after only 1 failed attempt.  RSA or RAD takes an hour to install.  If you plan to upgrade to a newer version, you are better off reimaging the entire machine before starting.

IBM makes decent mainframe software.  Their PC software is worse than Adobe's.


Yeah, ClearCase drove me nuts, but I didn't use it when I was using Notes, so maybe that pain would feel different side-by-side.

Config Specs for the ridiculous Boeing projects we would sub for are insane. When your best bet is to put a guy on updating a VM for two days, then image that VM, there's something wrong with your software and your version control system.
 
2013-05-15 02:16:18 PM  

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


I AM old school and still have a Lotus 1-2-3 Ver. 1.1A manual, along with other useless trash. At one job in the early 80s, our controller reluctantly allowed us to put a PC on his desk for that newfangled email. Minimum memory because he didn't want to waste money. Then he opened Lotus. By the end of the month we had maxed out the memory and added an expansion card.
 
2013-05-15 02:22:34 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.


Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Gunderson: [cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x465]

You know it's obsolete when they have a company president only making $150,000/yr

That's what he's making on the books.... you don't see anything past Column G, or "Document 2"


Right. Column G, which is labeled... Anyone? It's labeled BONUS.

And how much did the company president receive for a bonus? Anyone? One hundred... what? One hundred thousand dollars.

I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.


And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...
 
2013-05-15 02:24:27 PM  

gingerjet: gopher321: Fark Lotus and Microsoft.

Open Office ftw.

Every year I download Open Office, create a document, watch it crash, and I delete it from whatever machine I downloaded it to.  There is a lot to be said about stability and Microsoft Excel and Apples Numbers spreadsheet apps have it.


How do you manage that?  I just use the word processor and learn to hate the thing:
start:
"You saved something in a microsoft format, the horrors!  Do you want to recover it"?
No.
"how should you save the recovered file?
CANCEL!

Write document.  At some point you hit one of the magic sequences that would cause Clippie to pop up on the screen.  LibreOffice understands that you don't want to see Clippie.  Instead, they automatically do whatever Clippie would ask you to do and let you figure out the magic sequence to make it go back to normal.

Personally, I'd be happier if it just crashed.
/Posting from Linux
//Still can't stand even LibreOffice.
 
2013-05-15 02:28:01 PM  

Myria: nekom: I can't laugh.  We still use an AS/400 emulating System/36 code.  Custom in-house software that we've never been able to find a replacement for that we like.
I have a 3486 dual session terminal on my side desk, and I use it every working day.

At least System/36 is designed to be emulated like that.  I mean, that was one of its original selling points.


AS/400 was switched to being run in emulation on [customized 33-bit] PowerPCs back in the '90s.  I wouldn't be surprised if it has multiple layers now.  IBM will run software written for ENIAC forever.
 
2013-05-15 02:33:50 PM  

Donnchadha


Englebert Slaptyback: I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.

And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...


*sigh* The point - which soared majestically over your head - is that the company president had a salary of $150000 in column F and a bonus of $100000 in column G. IOW, he would have received $250000 for that year, not $150000 as stated in the post that you quoted.

Also you should note that I specified the president's "visible yearly compensation" precisely because the other columns (if any) were not visible.
 
2013-05-15 02:35:50 PM  
At one job I had to use Lotus Notes for email, calendar, and accessing internal documents.

I hated; I hated so much.
 
2013-05-15 02:36:12 PM  
Lotus: The Other Corel (TM)
 
2013-05-15 02:47:04 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Donnchadha

Englebert Slaptyback: I'll leave the president's total (visible) yearly compensation as an exercise for the reader.

And do you see what's written in Column H? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don't...


*sigh* The point - which soared majestically over your head - is that the company president had a salary of $150000 in column F and a bonus of $100000 in column G. IOW, he would have received $250000 for that year, not $150000 as stated in the post that you quoted.

Also you should note that I specified the president's "visible yearly compensation" precisely because the other columns (if any) were not visible.


My point... which sailed even more majestically over your head... is that that was his compensation *on the books*. You don't know what he was making *off the books* and maybe he total compensation was $4.5 billion.

Even more important, however, is that we're debating a screenshot of a spreadsheet tutorial.
 
2013-05-15 02:51:26 PM  

Donnchadha


Even more important, however, is that we're debating a screenshot of a spreadsheet tutorial.


... from 20 years ago, for a product that no longer exists. Yeah, I thought about that one.

*hands Donnchadha a refreshing beverage*
 
2013-05-15 03:00:39 PM  

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...
 
2013-05-15 03:00:58 PM  
Lotus was blamed for causing the S&L financial crisis in the 90's.  Many a nitwit used it to project bogus projections with bad calculations.  But because these projections were 'computerized' they were taken as gospel.  R.I.P.
i.technet.microsoft.com
 
2013-05-15 03:05:22 PM  

theurge14: Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.


That's what killed WordPerfect as well. Well, that and when they did manage to get a Windows version out it was a bloated, buggy pile of crap.
 
2013-05-15 03:06:42 PM  

RyansPrivates: nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.

By definition I don't think you are old school unless you have ever switched out program disk for the graphics disk in lotus...


I've switched out the program disk and the DOS disk.  I've saved and loaded programs on cassette tape (granted I was very young then), I used to run a BBS and had a Fidonet node.  Just never touched anything Lotus that I recall.

/slmr, dsz, frontdoor 2.02j.  press <ESC> twice for BBS, thedraw, cshow, etc.
 
2013-05-15 03:25:21 PM  

nekom: I don't think I've ever used a Lotus product in my life, and I'm fairly old school.


Sigh. You youngsters...

Started with Multiplan (for the C-64 no less) then switched to Lotus-123. Then Framework, then Quatro-Pro. Then Excel.
 
2013-05-15 03:27:10 PM  

soopey: jayhawk88: But Notes lives on. Christ, nuclear war won't destroy Notes. It'll just be cockroaches and some dude in a basement office trying to figure out how to forward a meeting request.

I hate Lotus Notes with a passion unrivaled by any other software package in my life.


Yes, it sucked.
 
2013-05-15 03:33:48 PM  

Ed Grubermann: theurge14: Lotus was king of spreadsheets briefly during the 1980s.  The big mistake they made was waiting years to make a Windows version to replace their DOS version.  To be fair, Windows wasn't exactly a mainstream product in the late 1980s but that's why they pay the upper management the big bucks to see those things coming or at least prepare for them.

That's what killed WordPerfect as well. Well, that and when they did manage to get a Windows version out it was a bloated, buggy pile of crap.


Wasn't WordPerfect 5.1 the big success?  It was....and it had FREE tech support.  That version was universally loved....until Novell bought WP in the early 90s.  First they eliminated the free tech support.  Then they spent gazillions on developing a version that EMULATED a GUI (what was the version...6 or so?)....and it tanked like gangbusters.  End of story for WP (and it didn't help Novell either).

But I do recall Lotus 123 being the big player for a while....so much so that users called 123 "Lotus" (kinda like Kleenex or Xerox).  Never did figure out who's bright idea it was to select the name Ami Pro...by the time they changed it to Word Pro it was a bit late in the game to make any difference.
 
2013-05-15 03:51:07 PM  

Myria: Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software. They even run it on XP in a DOS box, it's sad, really.


Are you sure it is DOS?  Because you can write Win32 and Win64 console programs for Windows that open in a text mode full screen.  They can look old school, but are otherwise modern under the hood.
 
2013-05-15 04:17:15 PM  
Punch cards noobz.
jk
 
2013-05-15 04:22:33 PM  

Dinjiin: Myria: Fry'd Electronics still use some kind of DOS text mode point of sale and inventory tracking software. They even run it on XP in a DOS box, it's sad, really.

Are you sure it is DOS?  Because you can write Win32 and Win64 console programs for Windows that open in a text mode full screen.  They can look old school, but are otherwise modern under the hood.


Probably DOS. I'm still supporting a DOS FoxPro 2.5 application that nobody wants to give up. Well at least until we finish our Windows 7 rollout. It does not work on Win 7 and management does not want to pay for somebody to figure out how to run it in a DOSBox on Win 7.
 
2013-05-15 04:54:38 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: management does not want to pay for somebody to figure out how to run it in a DOSBox on Win 7.


You realise there is quite a large difference between the statement you made and the statement you implied?

You're gonna get that thing working and it won't cost anyone anything extra, ain't life grand.  And if you don't, they'll find another monkey to replace you.
 
2013-05-15 04:56:45 PM  

Russ1642: Lotus 123 is the Abe Vigoda of software. I just assumed it was dead a decade ago.


Hey...
 
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