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(Huffington Post)   Some days you're the elephant poacher, some days you're the elephant poachee   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 72
    More: Fail, Zimbabwe, wildlife trade, United Nations Permanent Representative, Botswana, potable water, WWF  
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6091 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2013 at 11:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 12:48:31 PM  

dittybopper: tripleseven: dittybopper: 
 They don't care about preservation of the species, unlike sport hunters.

What utter shiat.

Name a species that was *SPORT* hunted to extinction or near extinction.  I bet every single species you can think of was hunted to the brink or past it not through sport hunting, but through market hunting (hunting for profit) or subsistence hunting (hunting for food).


Enough of your crazy "facts".  This is FARK!
 
hej
2013-05-15 01:42:41 PM  

Ohlookabutterfly: Ftfa: Treehugger quoted as saying "elephants may be purposefully striking back at the threat of poachers"

Where do these idiots get the funds to keep functioning ferchristsake.


What do you find to be so laughable?  Elephants are pretty smart creatures.
 
2013-05-15 01:46:17 PM  

brandent: legalized sport hunting of elephants.


I understand your point, but that phrase just seems to be wrong on about 10 levels.  I can't wrap my head around how anyone would advocate that.

...And I'm an avid hunter!
 
2013-05-15 01:50:43 PM  

Highroller48: brandent: legalized sport hunting of elephants.

I understand your point, but that phrase just seems to be wrong on about 10 levels.  I can't wrap my head around how anyone would advocate that.

...And I'm an avid hunter!


Well, avids are easy to hunt.  Hell, I've got a ton in my garden if you are jonesin'.
 
2013-05-15 02:10:50 PM  

dittybopper: Highroller48: ...And I'm an avid hunter!

Well, avids are easy to hunt.  Hell, I've got a ton in my garden if you are jonesin'.


Great!  Wait till you see my new Avid Blind.  Looks just like a rosebush, only with fewer thorns and more bullets.
 
2013-05-15 02:15:25 PM  

brandent: A Terrible Human: [i.imgur.com image 750x500]

Thanks.  I was worried I'd have to dig that out.


+1
 
2013-05-15 02:26:36 PM  

Highroller48: I understand your point, but that phrase just seems to be wrong on about 10 levels. I can't wrap my head around how anyone would advocate that.


In the recent thread about rhinos being poached for their horns, one thing that was brought up was that if we allowed farming of rhinos and legal sale of the horns we'd have huge herds of them.  Unlike tusks, Rhino horns are a form of fused hair and grow back if cut properly.  Rhino's aren't the nicest or easiest of animals, but you're still looking at prices that give you profit margins of more than 10X -1 if raising a Rhino costs 10X as much as a steer($200), and I don't think raising a rhino would cost $2k.

Allow 'some' sport hunting, allow farms, and you'd have people with economic interests in preserving the species and eliminating poaching.  I think that on average you'd find it works very well.
 
2013-05-15 02:40:59 PM  

Highroller48: dittybopper: Highroller48: ...And I'm an avid hunter!

Well, avids are easy to hunt.  Hell, I've got a ton in my garden if you are jonesin'.

Great!  Wait till you see my new Avid Blind.  Looks just like a rosebush, only with fewer thorns and more bullets.


Heh.

On a more serious note, though, I have a lot of trouble understanding the "I hunt deer, but not X" view of sport hunting.
 
2013-05-15 03:14:56 PM  

dittybopper: On a more serious note, though, I have a lot of trouble understanding the "I hunt deer, but not X" view of sport hunting.


I'm not sure I understand either.  I can understand a mono-hunter, most people don't have the time to learn how to hunt many species, and it can get very expensive.  Plus, if you like venison and get enough to satisfy your wild animal cravings, why diverge?

Besides, in many areas they keep having to reduce the requirements for deer hunting because they're overpopulated.
 
2013-05-15 03:32:30 PM  

Firethorn: dittybopper: On a more serious note, though, I have a lot of trouble understanding the "I hunt deer, but not X" view of sport hunting.

I'm not sure I understand either.  I can understand a mono-hunter, most people don't have the time to learn how to hunt many species, and it can get very expensive.  Plus, if you like venison and get enough to satisfy your wild animal cravings, why diverge?

Besides, in many areas they keep having to reduce the requirements for deer hunting because they're overpopulated.


Well, what I meant was, if you're OK with hunting deer, what's the difference between a deer and an elephant?  Both evolved as prey animals for humans.   And yes, humans have been hunting loxodonts since time immemorial.
 
2013-05-15 03:35:32 PM  

dittybopper: Well, what I meant was, if you're OK with hunting deer, what's the difference between a deer and an elephant? Both evolved as prey animals for humans. And yes, humans have been hunting loxodonts since time immemorial.


I know a guy who's a militant vegan. But not because he loves animals. He hates plants!
 
2013-05-15 03:37:43 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: dittybopper: Well, what I meant was, if you're OK with hunting deer, what's the difference between a deer and an elephant? Both evolved as prey animals for humans. And yes, humans have been hunting loxodonts since time immemorial.

I know a guy who's a militant vegan. But not because he loves animals. He hates plants!


Who the fark *DOESN'T*?


/Cellulosic bastards.
 
2013-05-15 03:43:05 PM  

dittybopper: /Cellulosic bastards.


And vicious too. At least here in Arizona.
 
2013-05-15 03:48:34 PM  

dittybopper: On a more serious note, though, I have a lot of trouble understanding the "I hunt deer, but not X" view of sport hunting.


I can't really justify it but elephants seem like a more advanced animal to me than deer.  Also, the primary barrier to hunting an elephant is the money for a trip and a guide whereas with deer or rabbits or grouse or whatever it's just time.  And every small game hunter I know eats the animals whereas with an elephant there pretty much has to be at least some selling involved unless you're just going to leave the carcass to rot in the sun because no one's going to eat an 11000 lb animal.  It just sounds to me less like sport and more like paying for the privilege of shooting something, which to me seems a bit crass.  Like I said though it's more of a general feeling I get than anything I can justify all that well, sort of like the reason I'd eat a pig but not a dog, I guess.
 
2013-05-15 04:44:13 PM  

you have pee hands: I can't really justify it but elephants seem like a more advanced animal to me than deer. Also, the primary barrier to hunting an elephant is the money for a trip and a guide whereas with deer or rabbits or grouse or whatever it's just time.


Some understandable reasons from this to not hunt elephant vs deer:
1.  Elephants break some sort of intelligence level?  I can see that, they are tool users, unlike deer(which are pretty stupid).
2.  There are fewer elephants; nowhere near overpopulated compared to deer
3.  A single family is unable to use a whole elephant
4.  It's seen as elitist for somebody from Europe or North America to travel specifically to Africa to hunt them
5.  Don't like the taste of elephant as much

But that's specifically deer vs elephant.  What about deer vs moose vs bear vs rabbit, etc...?  If you're willing to hunt one thing, you should be willing to let others hunt for other things, preferably without getting too elitist about it.  Not everybody has the time or resources to bow hunt grizzly bears 10 miles from the nearest road in a ground hunt.  Some people barely have time to run out on a weekend and shoot a deer with a high power scoped rifle.
 
2013-05-15 05:04:01 PM  

you have pee hands: with an elephant there pretty much has to be at least some selling involved unless you're just going to leave the carcass to rot in the sun because no one's going to eat an 11000 lb animal


Actually, the meat generally goes to the locals, who eat it.  Graphic pictures of elephant butchery at that link.

Remember, it's friggin' Africa.  They've been eating elephants for hundreds of thousands of years.
 
2013-05-15 06:34:50 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: FTFA: Manjoro and his friend Noluck Tafuruka are said to have visited the park between April 19 and 26, armed with two rifles, for the purpose of hunting.

Sounds like the elephant got the wrong guy.


If Noluck winds up in an African prison, he may well envy his buddy, Flat Stanley...
 
2013-05-15 06:39:24 PM  

tripleseven: dittybopper:
 They don't care about preservation of the species, unlike sport hunters.

What utter shiat.


He's got a point.  I'm not a fan of canned hunts, by any means, but the fact remains:  there's a couple species of antelope that would be extinct due to habitat destruction over in Africa, if it weren't for rich people's hunting preserves in Texas.

Can't really blame the Africans, they're just trying to survive in poverty, and it's not like we did such a great job on the carrier pigeon...
 
2013-05-15 06:56:43 PM  

PunGent: If Noluck winds up in an African prison, he may well envy his buddy, Flat Stanley...


Livingston, I presume?
 
2013-05-15 08:39:57 PM  
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/so-close-g1.gif?w=260&h=4 0 0

Link goes to a gif of an elephant slobber knocking a dude.
 
2013-05-16 07:21:57 AM  

PunGent: Can't really blame the Africans, they're just trying to survive in poverty, and it's not like we did such a great job on the carrier pigeon...


Actually, carrier pigeons are doing fine, it's passenger pigeons that we wiped out.

Interestingly, passenger pigeons were slaughtered largely as a cheap source of protein for African-Americans.
 
2013-05-16 09:51:32 AM  

dittybopper: PunGent: Can't really blame the Africans, they're just trying to survive in poverty, and it's not like we did such a great job on the carrier pigeon...

Actually, carrier pigeons are doing fine, it's passenger pigeons that we wiped out.

Interestingly, passenger pigeons were slaughtered largely as a cheap source of protein for African-Americans.


D'oh, wrong pigeon :)
 
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