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(Guardian)   The dark side of homeschooling: Creating child soldiers for the culture wars   ( guardian.co.uk) divider line
    More: Scary, child soldiers, culture war, apologetics, wars  
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4069 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 May 2013 at 8:37 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-15 02:56:16 AM  
Since that article ran a few days ago, the folks at the Homeschoolers Anonymous blog the article covers have been doing some more digging about just how bad it really is. There's really a concerted effort to do away with child protective services and to use homeschoolers as the foot soldiers in implementing a theocracy in the US. Farkers who have been here a while have probably seen me post about being homeschooled (I actually had a really good experience, personally) and growing up in the religious right, but until a few days ago I had no idea just how far and how coordinated the agenda was. It makes sense and fits in with all the bits and pieces I remember, but this is a coordinated effort by people who have a good bit of influence in the right wing.

/cue posts of the homeschooled farker's wife
 
2013-05-15 03:11:34 AM  

rynthetyn: Since that article ran a few days ago, the folks at the Homeschoolers Anonymous blog the article covers have been doing some more digging about just how bad it really is. There's really a concerted effort to do away with child protective services and to use homeschoolers as the foot soldiers in implementing a theocracy in the US. Farkers who have been here a while have probably seen me post about being homeschooled (I actually had a really good experience, personally) and growing up in the religious right, but until a few days ago I had no idea just how far and how coordinated the agenda was. It makes sense and fits in with all the bits and pieces I remember, but this is a coordinated effort by people who have a good bit of influence in the right wing.

/cue posts of the homeschooled farker's wife


Howdy, rynthetyn.
This stuff really scares me. (Yeah, I know: You got better.)
What passes for science education is only one piece of it.
The real kicker is no real exposure to other ideas, other perspectives, or critical thinking.
There's no testing of beliefs. Nor is there a real opportunity for the kids to develop a respect, no matter how grudging, for others.
After all, if your belief system is The One True Religion, there's no need to think about what you're doing and how it affects others.

/Maybe being Jewish makes me more sensitive to this. That, and the stream of people trying to proselytize me and mine.
//When one of the kidettes was younger, she told a proselytizer: "That's not what it says. It says *Hebrew*, which means *exact opposite*.
///She can hold her own: Doesn't seek out conflict, but won't run away, either.
 
2013-05-15 03:28:47 AM  
Just what I needed before bed, a tale of horror.
 
2013-05-15 03:32:04 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: rynthetyn: Since that article ran a few days ago, the folks at the Homeschoolers Anonymous blog the article covers have been doing some more digging about just how bad it really is. There's really a concerted effort to do away with child protective services and to use homeschoolers as the foot soldiers in implementing a theocracy in the US. Farkers who have been here a while have probably seen me post about being homeschooled (I actually had a really good experience, personally) and growing up in the religious right, but until a few days ago I had no idea just how far and how coordinated the agenda was. It makes sense and fits in with all the bits and pieces I remember, but this is a coordinated effort by people who have a good bit of influence in the right wing.

/cue posts of the homeschooled farker's wife

Howdy, rynthetyn.
This stuff really scares me. (Yeah, I know: You got better.)
What passes for science education is only one piece of it.
The real kicker is no real exposure to other ideas, other perspectives, or critical thinking.
There's no testing of beliefs. Nor is there a real opportunity for the kids to develop a respect, no matter how grudging, for others.
After all, if your belief system is The One True Religion, there's no need to think about what you're doing and how it affects others.

/Maybe being Jewish makes me more sensitive to this. That, and the stream of people trying to proselytize me and mine.
//When one of the kidettes was younger, she told a proselytizer: "That's not what it says. It says *Hebrew*, which means *exact opposite*.
///She can hold her own: Doesn't seek out conflict, but won't run away, either.


Yeah, it is scary. I learned math and science and how to think but there are a lot of people out there whose parents just left it out because they were told that they didn't need it to usher in the kingdom. Those kids are now trying to fill in the gaps as an adult.  On the bright side though, it turns out that most of us seem to have grown up to question everything.

WWhat really freaked me out was when it dawned on me that there's a good chance that the Homeschool Legal Defense Association has the terrible track record they do on abuse because it fits in with a legal strategy of turning homeschooling into a fundamental right, kids be damned.
 
2013-05-15 03:49:59 AM  
As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.
 
2013-05-15 03:57:22 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


Yeah, that's not how things work.
 
2013-05-15 04:01:38 AM  
I always thought that was the reason why the hyper-religious chose homeschooling.
 
2013-05-15 04:02:20 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


You forgot to mention getting pregnant and being a junkie.

2/10
 
2013-05-15 04:03:50 AM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: I always thought that was the reason why the hyper-religious chose homeschooling.


What usually happens is that mainstream evangelicals choose homeschooling and then get sucked into the hyper-religious extreme religious right views.
 
2013-05-15 06:51:48 AM  
I had to stop reading the article. It was making me ill. I think the greatest crime a parent can commit is to pass crazy on to their kids. Let your issues die with you.
 
2013-05-15 07:22:05 AM  
I think the thing that upsets me the most is that my normal, mainstream homeschooling family became pawns in the movement. Our very normalcy, and my siblings and my academic excellency was an example that caused other people to decide to homeschool. A number of those people got sucked into the crazy. Meanwhile, I come to realize that I was an unwitting tool in a movement that, among other things, is fighting hard to deny me rights. And yet by being openly, unashamedly gay former homeschooler, I'm still a pawn because now they can point to me as evidence that my parents didn't shelter me enough and should have arranged a marriage for me at 18 instead of sending me off to college.
 
2013-05-15 08:13:50 AM  

rynthetyn: Meanwhile, I come to realize that I was an unwitting tool in a movement that, among other things, is fighting hard to deny me rights. And yet by being openly, unashamedly gay former homeschooler, I'm still a pawn because now they can point to me as evidence that my parents didn't shelter me enough and should have arranged a marriage for me at 18 instead of sending me off to college.


It could have been worse:  You could have been sent to a Catholic school, where as a first grader you would have had an assignment to write a letter about how it's bad to throw babies into garbage cans.

You know when I was in first grade?   1973.

I don't think there is any one answer.  Clearly, education is too important to be the sole dominion of government, nor should it be completely privatized, and homeschooling can be appropriate in some circumstances.

I say we keep all three.  Think of each as a backstop against the others.
 
2013-05-15 08:23:19 AM  
whatever... i'm sure the kids from our inner city schools can take on these home schooled pricks.
is there already a reality tv show where home schooled kids fight ones from public school? we should get on that if there isn't.
 
2013-05-15 08:40:33 AM  
Turn on Christian radio sometime, this is not some secret.  They are gearing up for war with secular humanism.
 
2013-05-15 08:41:34 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


Because these are, literally, the only two options.

/let me guess: you routinely refer to public schools as "Marxist Indoctrination Centers" without a trace of irony, right?
 
2013-05-15 08:42:36 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


I guess it depends on where you live. I came from a GOP dominated area and there was no libby talk being espoused.
 
2013-05-15 08:44:26 AM  
Scary tag beat out Obvious tag I take it.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-15 08:45:26 AM  
I thought that was the only side of homeschooling.
 
2013-05-15 08:51:25 AM  
feliciaday.com
Homeschooled.

/So 'The Guild' is wartime propaganda?

Warrior in Training!
www.thegeekgirlproject.com


/hot
 
2013-05-15 08:52:14 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


Funny, when I was in High School I was fundie conservative. Most of the people I went to school with still are.

I got better.
 
2013-05-15 08:52:51 AM  
Too frequently, Stollar says, the consequences of putting ideology over children include anxiety, depression, distrust of authority, and issues around sexualityWait how does this differ from mine and every one of my friends experiences with mainstream schooling?
 
2013-05-15 08:53:59 AM  
I thought that was obvious.
 
2013-05-15 08:56:28 AM  
In before Toothy
 
2013-05-15 08:56:41 AM  
There are people who believe that children are  property of their parents. They cast any attempt to say, "No, they're not," as a socialist conspiracy to treat all children as wards of the state. No one is property, and as a society, we have a mandate to protect all of our members.
 
2013-05-15 08:57:39 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: /When one of the kidettes was younger, she told a proselytizer: "That's not what it says. It says *Hebrew*, which means *exact opposite*.


That must have been hysterical.
 
2013-05-15 08:59:27 AM  
Like most things in these people's lives, the notion that this is a valid plan is pure fantasy.
 
2013-05-15 08:59:56 AM  
Having a few Christian parents teaching kids is bad, because they might pick up a political orientation, but having them all taught by unionized government employees is okay?  Maybe somebody's parents should have taught them a bit of logic and critical thinking.
 
2013-05-15 09:00:23 AM  

Saiga410: Too frequently, Stollar says, the consequences of putting ideology over children include anxiety, depression, distrust of authority, and issues around sexualityWait how does this differ from mine and every one of my friends experiences with mainstream schooling?


Probably has something to do with the difference between normal teen angst and being told that if you do not submit to your parents authority or have sex for any reason other than to make a babby that you will go to hell and burn for eternity.
 
2013-05-15 09:02:20 AM  
You're not going to stop the churchies from turning their kids into ideological suicide-bombers.  At least when they keep their kids home to brainwash them they aren't completely focusing on ruining education for everyone else's students by prying schools open with a crowbar and stuffing their bullshiat mythology down everyone's throat.
 
2013-05-15 09:02:46 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


Yep, nothing brainwashes kids like the ability to do math, or to understand basic biology and chemistry. Reality certainly has a liberal bias.

Here's the thing that confuses me the most about the brainwashing/indoctrination argument... If your kid is going to get "brainwashed" by being away from you for 30-35 hours out of the 168 hours in a week - what does that really say about the strength of your own morals, ethics, and principles?
 
2013-05-15 09:03:07 AM  

theknuckler_33: Saiga410: Too frequently, Stollar says, the consequences of putting ideology over children include anxiety, depression, distrust of authority, and issues around sexualityWait how does this differ from mine and every one of my friends experiences with mainstream schooling?

Probably has something to do with the difference between normal teen angst and being told that if you do not submit to your parents authority or have sex for any reason other than to make a babby that you will go to hell and burn for eternity.


Yet again....  this differs how in a fundy household?
 
2013-05-15 09:03:28 AM  
My older brother and I went to public school and we were complete fark ups so my mom home schooled my 3 younger siblings.

They are some of the most well mannered, even tempered, responsible, non judgmental young adults you will ever meet.

They might be the exception to the rule....but you guys are sounding just as neurotic as all the fundies in this country with your conspiracy theories.

I personally think the educational system in this country has by and large failed our kids too. Some of the smartest kids I've ever met were home schooled by their parents. It's kind of amazing how well adjusted a kid can turn out when their parents actually give a damn about their education instead of just letting the state raise their kids for them.
 
2013-05-15 09:03:43 AM  
That would be public school and why homeschooling must be demonized.
 
2013-05-15 09:03:59 AM  

GeneralJim: Having a few Christian parents teaching kids is bad, because they might pick up a political orientation, but having them all taught by unionized government employees is okay?  Maybe somebody's parents should have taught them a bit of logic and critical thinking.


A lot of unionized government employees are christian. Christianity is a large union. Does this upset you?
 
2013-05-15 09:03:59 AM  

rynthetyn: jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.

Yeah, that's not how things work.


He's a sad little troll, don't bite.
 
2013-05-15 09:05:05 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.

Funny, when I was in High School I was fundie conservative. Most of the people I went to school with still are.

I got better.


And the same thing happens with home schooling, which is why I'm not to worried about their little "army."

The reason they are "fighting" a cultural war, is because they're losing.
 
2013-05-15 09:06:02 AM  

GeneralJim: Having a few Christian parents teaching kids is bad, because they might pick up a political orientation, but having them all taught by unionized government employees is okay?  Maybe somebody's parents should have taught them a bit of logic and critical thinking.


The objection is that it appears a significant portion of homeschooling parents are aiming to shape their kids politics first to the detriment of their education. You can off on any tangent about unionized government employees socializing this, feminizing that, wussifying the other thing, but you can't say with a straight face that the main objective of public schools is political polarization.
 
2013-05-15 09:06:10 AM  
Also, that is the dark side of public schools.
 
2013-05-15 09:07:17 AM  

dittybopper: It could have been worse:  You could have been sent to a Catholic school, where as a first grader you would have had an assignment to write a letter about how it's bad to throw babies into garbage cans.


I want to Catholic grade school and high school.  We were never politically indoctrinated or had any ideology pushed on us.  Catholic dogma was confined to religion class.  The science was all legitimate science.  And even in religion class, we were not taught biblical literalism - in fact, we were taught about the different authors and how their historical context influenced their writing.

Some of my teachers were quite liberal, including the Jesuit priests in my high school.
 
2013-05-15 09:07:27 AM  
I'm not to scared of this. I'm guessing as soon as most of these home "schooled" kids learn about the real world they'll realize how sheltered they were and reject their upbringing. The rest will just inbreed with each other until they resemble the family of hicks from that X-Files episode.
 
2013-05-15 09:07:58 AM  

GeneralJim: Having a few Christian parents teaching kids is bad, because they might pick up a political orientation, but having them all taught by unionized government employees is okay?  Maybe somebody's parents should have taught them a bit of logic and critical thinking.


img507.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-15 09:15:57 AM  
Maybe it's just the fascist/commie/socialist in me, but I would be in favor of a program that would force homeschooled kids out of their bubbles and have an oppurtunity to interact with other kids in the community. It wouldn't have to be a full-time deal, perhaps just a couple hours a week.
 
2013-05-15 09:16:18 AM  

thoughtless: GeneralJim: Having a few Christian parents teaching kids is bad, because they might pick up a political orientation, but having them all taught by unionized government employees is okay?  Maybe somebody's parents should have taught them a bit of logic and critical thinking.

The objection is that it appears a significant portion of homeschooling parents are aiming to shape their kids politics first to the detriment of their education. You can off on any tangent about unionized government employees socializing this, feminizing that, wussifying the other thing, but you can't say with a straight face that the main objective of public schools is political polarization.


Yes, yes you can say that. They open the day with a farking loyalty oath!
 
2013-05-15 09:16:26 AM  

Doc Daneeka: The science was all legitimate science.  And even in religion class, we were not taught biblical literalism - in fact, we were taught about the different authors and how their historical context influenced their writing.

Some of my teachers were quite liberal, including the Jesuit priests in my high school.


That is sort of what the Jesuits are know for, so this doesn't surprise me.
 
2013-05-15 09:16:28 AM  

DarnoKonrad: Turn on Christian radio sometime, this is not some secret.  They are gearing up for war with secular humanism.


That's fine.  They'll lose.  And do you know how I know?  We'll be well-rested from not having to haul our arses out of bed on Sundays to go to church.

I've got a full nights sleep a goddamned Science on my side.  Bring it on!!!!!
 
2013-05-15 09:17:00 AM  
I thought that was kind of the point of homeschooling all along.
 
2013-05-15 09:18:25 AM  
I think what happens to individuals who are home-schooled in ideology is tragic, but I don't worry about this at a social level.  The "warriors" will either be like the person mentioned, who wakes up and shakes off the indoctrination, or else they will retreat into cultural hermitages and maybe inflict the same thing on their own children.  But this impulse to cocoon and shield yourself from evil society is self-defeating by nature.  People don't, in general, come into contact with this kind of thing and think, "I want to brainwash my kids too."  In fact, they don't generally come into contact with these people at all, because they're hysterically afraid of having their children contaminated, so they stay locked up in their fortresses.

My sister and brother-in-law tried homeschooling their daughter for one year.  Not because they're Christian (they're not), or because they wanted to raise a culture warrior, but simply because they weren't satisfied with the quality of the education she was receiving.  They gave it up after a year for a variety of reasons, but one thing they found was that the "resources" available were like an infinite loop always leading, in the end, back to the ideology machine.  "Let me recommend this site to you, it will point you to some good resources," and in the end, it was always stuff like the "It Counldn't Just Happen" book mentioned in the article.  The local parent groups of homeschoolers were not strictly the culture warriors, but they were a majority, and they were determined to "spread the word" and recruit others to their way of seeing things.  If your child was not being raised to be a culture warrior, they didn't want their kids to be around yours.  So they were trying to spread, not the idea of homeschooling, but the idea of raising kids to be purist zealots.  It helped to drive my sister away from the idea of homeschooling; she realized she would be entirely on her own.

Another good example is some former neighbors.  They were homeschoolers, profoundly fundamentalist.  Or so I'm told.  I almost never even saw them.  They did not allow their children to mingle with the neighborhood children, ever.  No trick-or-treating.  No playing outside.  Nothing.  Then they moved, probably off to some derptastic utopia.  Influence they made on the people around them?  Zero.
 
2013-05-15 09:20:26 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: As opposed to going to public school and being brainwashed in to an obedient little commie liberal.


And the forced gay marriage.  You forgot about the forced gay marriage.
 
2013-05-15 09:21:17 AM  

Saiga410: theknuckler_33: Saiga410: Too frequently, Stollar says, the consequences of putting ideology over children include anxiety, depression, distrust of authority, and issues around sexualityWait how does this differ from mine and every one of my friends experiences with mainstream schooling?

Probably has something to do with the difference between normal teen angst and being told that if you do not submit to your parents authority or have sex for any reason other than to make a babby that you will go to hell and burn for eternity.

Yet again....  this differs how in a fundy household?


You didn't say you were from a fundy household.
 
2013-05-15 09:21:29 AM  
Most of kids I've met that were home schooled have trouble dealing with reality and suffer from social anxiety. They typically can't even do simple math, but could recite every hateful cherry picked verse from the Bible. A little home schooled Catholic weirdo came over to play with my daughter. He told her she was being controlled by the devil and was going to suffer in Hell eternally for not being Catholic. They were 5 years old. I politely asked him to go home because he was scaring my daughter. Of coarse, the parents then hated us for persecuting them and being mean to their kid.

I've only met one home schooled libtard. They lived on a commune and smoked weed all the time. These people were easily just as worthless and stupid, but in a different way. At least they didn't seem evil and could handle talking to people that weren't exactly like them.
 
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