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(Boing Boing)   A family with a million dollar house earning $200,000 a year but with no savings will get more student aid than someone with a modest house earning $50,000 a year and $200,000 in savings   (boingboing.net) divider line 277
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10598 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 04:44:52 PM  
I call BS.   In 1993, when I was trying to go to college.  My parents made a combined 45K a year with a 75K house.  I got nothing!  Student loans all the way
 
2013-05-14 04:57:53 PM  

Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.


Bullshiat comment it bullshiat.
 
2013-05-14 05:45:30 PM  

The Homer Tax: Why does a family with 200k in savings need federal aid to send their kids to college?


Because little Johnny and Susie (or Jayden and Kayden, if you like) don't want to go to State U.
 
2013-05-14 05:46:43 PM  
I started at State U in the early 80s.  Tuition was about $1,600 per year.  Adjusted for inflation that works out to about $3,500 in today's money.    Tuition at my alma mater is currently around $12K per year.  In real terms, the cost of tuition has increased 3.4 times since I was a 17 year old freshman.  I actually managed to earn enough money working at minimum wage jobs over the winter/summer breaks to cover about 3/4 of the tuition bill.

/You kids are so screwed
//Get off my lawn
 
2013-05-14 05:53:32 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: brap: I like Senator Warren's plan of allowing students to borrow at the same rate as banks.

Stupid idea is stupid. The problem with the system as it currently stands is too much free money and too little competition. You want to fix the college tuition problem then go on a Federal University spending spree, Federally mandate that tuition start at 5,000 dollars a year and only rise at the rate of inflation.


This. When I was in high school in the very late 90's, all I ever heard was "if you can only pay so much, the government pays the rest!" Then schools got wise to the "if you can't pay the rest" part and started jacking rates up. In ten years, the tuition at Ohio State has increased 150% because, why not? Free money all around, fleece the masses if the government is gonna pay for it.
 
2013-05-14 06:27:58 PM  

Raptop: My oldest is starting college next year, we just did his FAFSA app.  I have ~$500k in savings (no debt, never bought a house).  I'm waiting for them to tell me that I can "afford" to pay $56k/year in cash.

Should I be buying a house to "hide" my money in?


no but you should've stashed your money in offshore accounts like what most wealthy folks do.
 
2013-05-14 06:30:34 PM  

me texan: Answer: What is "The Government supports programs that encourage the production of viable taxpayers". The student saving money?  She/he  isn't stuck in a perpetual circle of debt and certainly isn't generating as much sales tax required to keep the government Ponzi schemes going.


This.
 
2013-05-14 06:38:08 PM  

Lollipop165: Tatsuma: jshine: I have to second Tatsuma's post though -- Mrs. jshine & I are over $200k/yr and we're not rich. We've got one car (a Mazda 3), an apartment, and a dog. We're certainly not starving, but neither are we wealthy.

change 'most of the country' to 'most big cities in the country' and $1,000,000 to '$500,000 to $1,000,000' and my post is accurate.

This is also pretty much what I meant to begin with, should have been more accurate.


$200,000 a year for a family is barely middle-class unless you live in the middle of nowhere.

Um, no. I live in NYC and went to HS in one of America's wealthiest suburbs.. $200k is absolutely upper middle class. Hubby and I make a bit over $160k together and I certainly consider myself upper middle class - I can purchase a home while still saving money for my kid's college and my retirement. Now, can I afford a 3bd/2 ba in the Upper East Side? No. But I live very well in "normal" middle class Queens.


Some people really do have no clue at all about how the other "half" -- more like 90% -- lives.

Blue-collar dad working lots of overtime; stay-at-home mom occasionally doing side work but mostly dealing with PTA and, y'know, raising the kids. Graduated high school in 1987.  I learned a lot about saving and creative financial management from my mom, but we didn't live lavishly (lower middle class neighborhood with a decent school, used cars, etc.). Still, not a lot of savings to work with, and the college plan was a bunch of savings bonds in my name that barely got me through freshman year buying books and supplies and food. Their house was a rowhome in east Baltimore, just outside the city and as of last year, those homes were going for about $150-180k (though the neighborhood really went down hill). 

I had good grades (mostly As and Bs) and was courted by several good schools, but even then I graduated with debt that exceeded my first year's entire salary, and that's with plenty of grants and scholarships. I had no clue how close my folks were to the edge until much later. But it's not like I was living lavishly, either -- I worked 2-3 part time jobs for most of school.

I stayed in debt for a very long time, in fact until I bought a condo (because rents were too high in the 2000s), got a better job, and then paid off my debt.

There is a significant change in means once you start earning $50k or more; your basic needs can be met pretty well if you're not extravagant and you can actually start to save. I make decent money, no longer carry much non-mortgage debt, and am working toward having a year's salary  banked.  I didn't see the point in a lavish home though I could probably afford something more expensive now; I always bought within my means and seem to have decent instincts on when to trade up. I did buy a much nicer car but that'll be paid off soon too, and then it's mortgage and normal monthly expenses.

But it took me almost 25 years to get here, and the first ten were downright painful.
 
2013-05-14 06:42:41 PM  

tylerdurden217: logggur: Out of curiosity, what part are you calling the "best" part of Houston?

Uptown, River Oaks, Hyde Park, Montrose, West University... All pretty nice in my opinion.

Houston is a great city. Granted, I live in Katy because I have 3 kids and they will be going to public school, but it really has a bad reputation and I would take it any day over Chicago or New York. I work in Long Island, so I'm in NY every week and it's OK, but it's not worth the cost of living. IMHO.

Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the US (if not the most diverse). There's a lot of money here because of oil. There is a lot of culture. I think the museums are excellent. Lots of nice parks to take the kids to. I'm a pretty big fan of the city. I moved there in 2008 from Austin and I actually prefer Houston because the economy is substantially better. I love Austin too though.


I don't care much Houston. Dallas or Austin is waaay better It's dirty, grimy and it has a pretty high crime rate. While I do admit it is very diverse the minorities there are the 'lesser' minorities as in minorities with minimum wage jobs and no qualifications as oppose to the minorities who graduate from Ivy League schools or even H1B types.
 
2013-05-14 06:42:51 PM  

tricycleracer: Rapmaster2000: A million dollar house is not a lot of money.  Most of the guys in my fraternity have a house at least that much in value.  Look, if these people don't want to have debt then they just need to get a job.

I spent a whole summer washing cars at my Dad's dealership to pay for school and I made plenty.  When I graduate next year, I'll have the sales manager job at the dealership waiting for me.  I've earned it.

[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x480]


DP: "Bros call me DP, short for donkey-puncher, get it?"
Frylock: "Yeah.. I do."
DP: "Sometimes I'm donkey puncherelo, or D-to-the-P, or Big DP, or uh.. King Donko of Punchstania."
 
2013-05-14 07:50:24 PM  
FTFA: American private universities use poor kids' tuition to subsidize rich kids' degrees

Is Ric Romero working at Boing Boing now?
 
2013-05-14 07:52:26 PM  

tylerdurden217: logggur: Out of curiosity, what part are you calling the "best" part of Houston?

Uptown, River Oaks, Hyde Park, Montrose, West University... All pretty nice in my opinion.

Houston is a great city. Granted, I live in Katy because I have 3 kids and they will be going to public school, but it really has a bad reputation and I would take it any day over Chicago or New York. I work in Long Island, so I'm in NY every week and it's OK, but it's not worth the cost of living. IMHO.

Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the US (if not the most diverse). There's a lot of money here because of oil. There is a lot of culture. I think the museums are excellent. Lots of nice parks to take the kids to. I'm a pretty big fan of the city. I moved there in 2008 from Austin and I actually prefer Houston because the economy is substantially better. I love Austin too though.


Oh, I live in Houston.  I was just curious what specific part the other poster was referring to, since describing it as "the nice part" doesn't really narrow things down much.

Anyway, yeah I love it here, although I understand some of the complaints that people seem to have.  I'd hate having to live on the highways as most people do (my commute is against the traffic flow) and it really could use a lot more in the vein of public transportation.  It's pretty tough to beat in terms of culture, cuisine, and recreation, though.
 
2013-05-14 08:02:45 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: tylerdurden217: logggur: Out of curiosity, what part are you calling the "best" part of Houston?

Uptown, River Oaks, Hyde Park, Montrose, West University... All pretty nice in my opinion.

Houston is a great city. Granted, I live in Katy because I have 3 kids and they will be going to public school, but it really has a bad reputation and I would take it any day over Chicago or New York. I work in Long Island, so I'm in NY every week and it's OK, but it's not worth the cost of living. IMHO.

Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the US (if not the most diverse). There's a lot of money here because of oil. There is a lot of culture. I think the museums are excellent. Lots of nice parks to take the kids to. I'm a pretty big fan of the city. I moved there in 2008 from Austin and I actually prefer Houston because the economy is substantially better. I love Austin too though.

I don't care much Houston. Dallas or Austin is waaay better It's dirty, grimy and it has a pretty high crime rate. While I do admit it is very diverse the minorities there are the 'lesser' minorities as in minorities with minimum wage jobs and no qualifications as oppose to the minorities who graduate from Ivy League schools or even H1B types.


Not sure if this is just a really strange troll or just plain racist, but Houston is home to a ton of different international cultures.  Not sure what the "lesser" minorities with minimum wage jobs constitute, but Houston has a higher median income than Dallas.  Either way they're virtually identical in terms of income breakdown.

Source:  http://www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html ,  http://www.city-data.com/city/Dallas-Texas.html
 
2013-05-14 08:24:53 PM  

Hrist: It's not a function of being good with money, it's a function of being lucky. You can live on under $20k a year. It won't be glamorous, but hey. So assume you can save $20k a year ($10k breathing room). It'll take you ten years to save $200k. Assuming nothing happens. Assuming no splurges. Assuming no 'oops I'm pregnant it's yours and I'm having the kid.' Assuming no 'you parked in the wrong parking space, so here's a $500 ticket and you need to pay the impound lot $3,000 to get your car back.'


An awful lot of "luck" is being careful.
 
2013-05-14 08:36:15 PM  

Loren: Hrist: It's not a function of being good with money, it's a function of being lucky. You can live on under $20k a year. It won't be glamorous, but hey. So assume you can save $20k a year ($10k breathing room). It'll take you ten years to save $200k. Assuming nothing happens. Assuming no splurges. Assuming no 'oops I'm pregnant it's yours and I'm having the kid.' Assuming no 'you parked in the wrong parking space, so here's a $500 ticket and you need to pay the impound lot $3,000 to get your car back.'

An awful lot of "luck" is being careful.


And an awful lot of luck is luck.

I was supposed to pay off the last of my student loans this month.  But instead my landlord called up my month to month lease (state-required maintenance), and I had to drop $3100 on a new apartment (security deposit plus first months rent), plus a few MORE grand to try and get minimal furnishing in.  I get to sleep on the floor for a week and I still won't have furniture in the living room until at least July.

Luckily, I'm running around on about double my day-to-day, month-to-month needs (midwestern sense of what things 'should' cost plus software engineer salary), so I HAD $4-5K to blow.  If I was Dad ($28K, $24K after taxes, $14K after child support)... well, I've seen Dad try to save up an entire year to buy a couch.  He couldn't do this period.

/Anyone want to split a 2 BR, 1 BA just off Downtown Mountain View?  I figure I'm better off with Farkers than Craigslist.
 
2013-05-14 09:04:46 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Goodluckfox: Define "most"??? I think you meant "in certain markets, a "normal" house runs about a million dollars."

For example in Vancouver, BC a million dollars gets you this. A half million might get you something about the same size, between two auto body shops and across the train tracks from a rendering plant.


Reminds me of a two bedroom house that sold in Mar Vista, CA a couple years ago for $995,000.  The listing described it as a "starter home."

Yes, 'cause starter homes should cost one million dollars.
 
2013-05-14 09:08:18 PM  

serpent_sky: you have pee hands: A house worth $500,000 is not worth $1,000,000. What are you trying to say here? A million dollar house is way outside the norm.

Not in NY or CT or a lot of the East Coast.  A CHEAP house is $350,000.  Average is $500,000-$750,000.  $1,000,000 isn't uncommon by any means.

...and this is why I neither own a house nor have any savings.



We're buying our first home in Atlanta.  We're looking in the $400,000 range.

\I could have sworn people told me Atlanta was cheap
\\it only seems to be cheap if you don't care about schools or safety
 
2013-05-14 09:27:57 PM  
I earn $100,000 a year and have almost a million in debt that I deliberately keep adding to.

Because I know that in the very near future inflation is going to skyrocket making my million in debt the same value as a gallon of milk. Then I can send a gallon of milk to the bank and be debt free.

/kidding
//scared that second part might end up true.
 
2013-05-14 09:52:16 PM  

thurstonxhowell: inclemency: thurstonxhowell: In other words, low-income families are routinely being asked to fork over more than half of their annual income for the privilege of sending their child off to campus for a year.

They wouldn't be asked that if they looked at affordable state or community colleges instead of over-priced private schools.

So the poor should stay poor.

God bless america.

/douche
//not capitilized for a reason

I went to a state school for undergrad. I wasn't poor when I made that decision and I'm not poor now. Expensive private schools are, for the most part, status symbols for people with more money than sense. Especially for undergrad. If the name on your diploma is really going to matter to you and your career, you're probably looking at grad school, anyway. Go somewhere cheap, but respectable, for undergrad and go get that fancy degree later. All that money you didn't spend on undergrad will help a good bit in keeping you on that road.

/ Perhaps, if you had attended a university of the quality that my state provides, you would know that you misspelled capitalized.
// I know, I know, you were very excited to call me a douche. It's an exciting world full of exciting opportunities.


Perhaps I was a bit hasty to judge the intent of your post. And we both know my spelling error was inexcusable. For these things I apologize.

You're a straight up dick though. Good luck with that.
 
2013-05-14 10:23:02 PM  

meyerkev: And an awful lot of luck is luck.

I was supposed to pay off the last of my student loans this month. But instead my landlord called up my month to month lease (state-required maintenance), and I had to drop $3100 on a new apartment (security deposit plus first months rent), plus a few MORE grand to try and get minimal furnishing in. I get to sleep on the floor for a week and I still won't have furniture in the living room until at least July.

Luckily, I'm running around on about double my day-to-day, month-to-month needs (midwestern sense of what things 'should' cost plus software engineer salary), so I HAD $4-5K to blow. If I was Dad ($28K, $24K after taxes, $14K after child support)... well, I've seen Dad try to save up an entire year to buy a couch. He couldn't do this period.

/Anyone want to split a 2 BR, 1 BA just off Downtown Mountain View? I figure I'm better off with Farkers than Craigslist.


Huh?  Yeah, you have to put down a security deposit but you'll get back the deposit from the old place, that's a wash.  As for new furniture, what about a new place forces you to buy new furniture?  We certainly never have.
 
2013-05-14 11:34:34 PM  

Loren: meyerkev: And an awful lot of luck is luck.

I was supposed to pay off the last of my student loans this month. But instead my landlord called up my month to month lease (state-required maintenance), and I had to drop $3100 on a new apartment (security deposit plus first months rent), plus a few MORE grand to try and get minimal furnishing in. I get to sleep on the floor for a week and I still won't have furniture in the living room until at least July.

Luckily, I'm running around on about double my day-to-day, month-to-month needs (midwestern sense of what things 'should' cost plus software engineer salary), so I HAD $4-5K to blow. If I was Dad ($28K, $24K after taxes, $14K after child support)... well, I've seen Dad try to save up an entire year to buy a couch. He couldn't do this period.

/Anyone want to split a 2 BR, 1 BA just off Downtown Mountain View? I figure I'm better off with Farkers than Craigslist.

Huh?  Yeah, you have to put down a security deposit but you'll get back the deposit from the old place, that's a wash.  As for new furniture, what about a new place forces you to buy new furniture?  We certainly never have.


Old place was furnished.  New place isn't.  This is my first apartment that I've ever owned in my name instead of renting a room.

/And the security deposit is larger.  And more importantly, there is a period where I haven't gotten the first one back, but need to pay the second one.
 
2013-05-14 11:34:47 PM  

Loren: meyerkev: And an awful lot of luck is luck.

I was supposed to pay off the last of my student loans this month. But instead my landlord called up my month to month lease (state-required maintenance), and I had to drop $3100 on a new apartment (security deposit plus first months rent), plus a few MORE grand to try and get minimal furnishing in. I get to sleep on the floor for a week and I still won't have furniture in the living room until at least July.

Luckily, I'm running around on about double my day-to-day, month-to-month needs (midwestern sense of what things 'should' cost plus software engineer salary), so I HAD $4-5K to blow. If I was Dad ($28K, $24K after taxes, $14K after child support)... well, I've seen Dad try to save up an entire year to buy a couch. He couldn't do this period.

/Anyone want to split a 2 BR, 1 BA just off Downtown Mountain View? I figure I'm better off with Farkers than Craigslist.

Huh?  Yeah, you have to put down a security deposit but you'll get back the deposit from the old place, that's a wash.  As for new furniture, what about a new place forces you to buy new furniture?  We certainly never have.


I have never gotten 100% of my security deposit back, they always find a way to keep some of it. And maybe he was living in a furnished apartment before that, it happens.
 
2013-05-14 11:55:48 PM  

jayphat: Slaves2Darkness: brap: I like Senator Warren's plan of allowing students to borrow at the same rate as banks.

Stupid idea is stupid. The problem with the system as it currently stands is too much free money and too little competition. You want to fix the college tuition problem then go on a Federal University spending spree, Federally mandate that tuition start at 5,000 dollars a year and only rise at the rate of inflation.

This. When I was in high school in the very late 90's, all I ever heard was "if you can only pay so much, the government pays the rest!" Then schools got wise to the "if you can't pay the rest" part and started jacking rates up. In ten years, the tuition at Ohio State has increased 150% because, why not? Free money all around, fleece the masses if the government is gonna pay for it.


To be fair, OSU also went from the backup school to the backup school to a SAT/ACT score busting institution in the last 15 years.  Hell, if you don't have a HS Accum 3.8 GPA and a 1400, you might as well not even apply, because you're not getting in.
 
2013-05-15 03:11:00 AM  

FizixJunkee: We're buying our first home in Atlanta.  We're looking in the $400,000 range.

\I could have sworn people told me Atlanta was cheap


I'm guessing that's something like 2500 square feet with a two car garage for $400,000?

Cheap compared to the 750 square feet you'll get for that price in California.
 
2013-05-15 06:39:23 AM  

Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.


I feel you have over estimated "most"of the country.
 
2013-05-15 06:46:42 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.

Tatsuma: Lawnchair: In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation. The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.

No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.

What the fark are you talking about? You went from "most of the country" to "decent neighborhoods in NY, Chicago and LA" in the span of just one post.  Just because you live in an expensive neighborhood does not mean "most of the country" lives in an expensive neighborhood.


This. And 10% isn't "most" on any scale from any angle.
 
2013-05-15 06:50:45 AM  

Dear Jerk: A long time ago, I drove my country bumpkin wife through the old part of town and she looked in horror at all the $30k homes. I remember telling her, 'this is how most of the country lives.'


That's how I love and I love it! True story, the house I just moved out of is now on the market...for ten grand. The best part of starting on the bottom? Nowhere to go but up. That's the only good part, actually, unless humility counts.
 
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