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(Boing Boing)   A family with a million dollar house earning $200,000 a year but with no savings will get more student aid than someone with a modest house earning $50,000 a year and $200,000 in savings   (boingboing.net) divider line 277
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10593 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 11:43:57 AM

Iron Felix: Wait kids can actually get IN to a 4 year college with a SAT score under 700???


I saw kids at one of the campuses of the University of Nebraska who I'm sure struggled to get a 70. I'm betting every state college has their generous share of those.
 
2013-05-14 11:44:08 AM
Not sure what happened to my return key there.
 
2013-05-14 11:44:32 AM
Flip the coin and your parents are working under the table and collecting housing, welfare food stamps, medical and you get free school.

Nothing has changed since the 1950's the middle class are always the ones who fall between the cracks and get it up the butt.
 
2013-05-14 11:45:14 AM

Lawnchair: In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation. The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.


No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.
 
2013-05-14 11:49:02 AM

ArkAngel: Read the full article. The author seems to take offense to any form of academic scholarship that goes to well-off students.


Sounds good to me. Give them a plaque for good grades, charge them full rate.
 
2013-05-14 11:49:06 AM

Iron Felix: Wait kids can actually get IN to a 4 year college with a SAT score under 700???


yes, but when you get into a 4 year institution that accepts you with under a 700 on your SAT, it's spelled "kollege".
 
2013-05-14 11:49:08 AM
I am the poster child for this in a way, though over the last few years our income has done very nicely.  My son is a very good student, Eagle Scout, etc., and can't get anything but loans because of our net worth.  We live relatively simply. A nice vaca every summer but nothing over the top, two cars long since paid for and honestly a little old, house debt retired years ago by accelerating payments. Other families we know who have not saved but have a big house and big mortgage and go on extravagant vacations and buy expensive cars have done a lot better in getting scholarships.  Is it unfair? Possibly, but I would not trade situations. I have not worried much about my kids' education because i have saved for it.  As a family, we don't want for much. I have been blessed, and have made my choices and our lifestyle fits us just fine. And if scholarships dry up, I won't have to worry about my kids getting a good education.
 
2013-05-14 11:49:53 AM
jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com

It's a profit deal!
 
2013-05-14 11:50:55 AM

Tatsuma: No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.


A house worth $500,000 is not worth $1,000,000.  What are you trying to say here?  A million dollar house is way outside the norm.
 
2013-05-14 11:51:09 AM

Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.


Define "most"??? I think you meant "in certain markets, a "normal" house runs about a million dollars."

In *most* of the country, a million bucks gets you an estate, ranch, acreage, palace, mansion, or some combination of the above. In a few places (big cities, certain enclaves) it gets you a 3/2 w/ 2car garage and a back yard.
 
2013-05-14 11:51:44 AM

Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.


Tatsuma: Lawnchair: In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation. The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.

No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.


What the fark are you talking about? You went from "most of the country" to "decent neighborhoods in NY, Chicago and LA" in the span of just one post.  Just because you live in an expensive neighborhood does not mean "most of the country" lives in an expensive neighborhood.
 
2013-05-14 11:52:06 AM

Gulper Eel: I guess it's possible to sock away $200K on a 50K salary, but that's some serious Dave Ramsey devotion they've got going there.


I built up close to $100k in personal savings on a 52k salary over 4 - 5 year stretch, all from take-home salary alone. It's doable, depending on where you live, and what your priorities are. (I was saving up for a house.)

Having some knowledge of investing also helps. (Savings accounts probably won't cut it.)
 
2013-05-14 11:52:35 AM

Lawnchair: Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.

In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation.  The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.


Thank you, that was some serious nonsense right there.
 
2013-05-14 11:54:15 AM

Tatsuma: 10% of the country, or the vast majority


Whenever you look to the night sky and wonder why so many people give you shiat when all you're doing is telling the truth, I want you to know that you type shiat like this all. The goddamn. Time. It really, really hurts your credibility across the board.
 
2013-05-14 11:55:49 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: What the fark are you talking about? You went from "most of the country" to "decent neighborhoods in NY, Chicago and LA" in the span of just one post. Just because you live in an expensive neighborhood does not mean "most of the country" lives in an expensive neighborhood.


Well I guess I have a warped view of where most people live. Most of the people I know live in big cities, and those who have houses, none of them have anything under $500,000.

Seems like this is only ~12% of the country, so I guess I was wrong
 
2013-05-14 11:56:16 AM

what_now: No they won't. I don't have time for this shiat today, because my actual students have sent me actual FAFSAs to review and I've been out of the country for a week, but take it from me: I've been doing this for a decade.

FEDERAL AID DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.


DING DING DING!   Winner!  All go home now.thanks.bye.
 
2013-05-14 11:56:46 AM

Goodluckfox: Define "most"??? I think you meant "in certain markets, a "normal" house runs about a million dollars."


For example in Vancouver, BC a million dollars gets you this. A half million might get you something about the same size, between two auto body shops and across the train tracks from a rendering plant.
 
2013-05-14 11:56:54 AM

ThatGuyGreg: A family with a million dollar house earning $200,000 a year is most likely horrifically in debt, or if not, a layoff or health problem not covered by insurance away.

/just saying


Not if they own the house and have no debt.

If you want to play the financial aid game, you take all your savings and payoff as much of the mortgage as you can.
 
2013-05-14 11:57:20 AM

Lawnchair: Tatsuma: .... a million dollar house is a pretty regular (or even small-ish) house in most of the country, Subby. And a family of four living on a $200,000 is not any means rich.

In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation.  The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.


Tatsuma: No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.


Come on Tats, just admit you made a gross overstatement about how commonplace a $1 million house is in the USA.  Please, pretty please?  You'd get a lot of brownie points if you nibbled just a bit on some crow.  I think crow is kosher, too.
 
2013-05-14 11:58:24 AM
Where I live if you bought a house in 96 for $250,000 it's worth a million today.
I was fortunate but It sure sucks for the time my kids want to buy a home.
 
2013-05-14 11:59:08 AM

valkore: Come on Tats, just admit you made a gross overstatement about how commonplace a $1 million house is in the USA. Please, pretty please? You'd get a lot of brownie points if you nibbled just a bit on some crow. I think crow is kosher, too.


When I said 1m originally, I was more thinking about the $500,000 to $1,000,000 bracket, not the one over that (and that's what the $1,000,000+ is).

However, even that is only 10% so I seem to have had a warped view of just how many people own houses in big cities.
 
2013-05-14 11:59:33 AM
A long time ago, I drove my country bumpkin wife through the old part of town and she looked in horror at all the $30k homes. I remember telling her, 'this is how most of the country lives.'
 
2013-05-14 11:59:52 AM

you have pee hands: A house worth $500,000 is not worth $1,000,000. What are you trying to say here? A million dollar house is way outside the norm.


Not in NY or CT or a lot of the East Coast.  A CHEAP house is $350,000.  Average is $500,000-$750,000.  $1,000,000 isn't uncommon by any means.

...and this is why I neither own a house nor have any savings.
 
2013-05-14 11:59:59 AM

Antimatter: I'm still bitter about having my aid be tied to my parents income


Once you start to realize that aid is not an entitlement or something you inherently deserve, you will get over your bitterness.
It is a gift.  Some people get bigger gifts than others.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:06 PM

Tatsuma: Lawnchair: In the world of facts, a million dollar house is in the top 2.3% of home values in the nation. The median owner-occupied home value is $186,200.

No, those are houses that are worth more than a million dollar. If you take houses between 500,000 and 999,999, then that's 10% of the country, or the vast majority of people who have houses in decent neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, LA, or any other major city out there.


Do a search of www.har.com for Houston (just for giggles).

Because the tax structure is so different here (no state taxes, just property and sales taxes), prices are no where near what they are in New York, Chicago, or LA. Same goes for any city in Texas including Dallas and Austin.

In the grocery a few days back, I just met a new retired couple who moved here from New York. They kept going on about how nice people were here, and how cheap housing, food, etc. was. You'll have to remember, that even though Texas votes Republican, most of the large cities are primarily Democrat, so they fit in nicely.

I'm originally from Louisiana, and I think people in Houston are jerks, and the cost of living and housing is expensive, even though I live in the "best" part of Houston (so YMMV).

A million dollar home in Houston and a moderate income gets you a lot more than you'd get in New York, Chicago, or LA (don't get me wrong, as a consultant, I loved Chicago when I was there for a year). But comparing on house value alone isn't a fair comparison.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:18 PM

Mr.Man: Where I live if you bought a house in 96 for $250,000 it's worth a million today.
I was fortunate but It sure sucks for the time my kids want to buy a home.


In Israel it's pretty much the case anywhere in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem or the surrounding areas. Like, you will hardly find something decent in Jeru or TA if you put down less than $500,000.

How that can be the upper 10% in America, that just confuses me.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:18 PM

what_now: No they won't. I don't have time for this shiat today, because my actual students have sent me actual FAFSAs to review and I've been out of the country for a week, but take it from me: I've been doing this for a decade.

FEDERAL AID DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.


Apparently you do have time for this shiat today. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here at all....
 
2013-05-14 12:00:19 PM

Antimatter: I'm still bitter about having my aid be tied to my parents income, despite them not actually paying for my tuition.  I actually lost all aid my sr year because they sold a failed business and made money on the books, despite all that money going to medical bills.


This!  When I went to school in early 2000 they said I would get almost no aide because my parents would be paying for most of my school which is not the case.  You are a dependant student for way too long, almost had my parents orphan me so I could be labeled independant.

The headline can't be based on Federal Aide unless the student is over 25 years old.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:28 PM

Ivo Shandor: For example in Vancouver, BC a million dollars gets you this. A half million might get you something about the same size, between two auto body shops and across the train tracks from a rendering plant.


For a million dollars you'd think they could proofread the ad.  At least I'm not pali of a Strata.

Very rare offering - immaculately maintained Thin House in central Dunbar location! Great alternative to a townhouse yourown property without being pali of a Strata. 1 bedroom + den up, and a fully fini shed studio or g uest bedroom . Mainfloor is very spacious & bright, featuring generous room sizes. Private south facing gard en. Ample crawl space forstorage. Easy access to transit and Dunbar St. shopping.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:47 PM
Granted, this was nearly 20 years ago, but I'm going to add my name to the list of "My parents made too much money for me to get financial aid."  They were also so far in debt they couldn't even help pay for part of college, let alone all of it.  I could have gotten into a nice college, maybe even a really nice college.  I just couldn't afford to go (and not quite 'smart' enough for free rides courtesy of the colleges).
 
2013-05-14 12:02:05 PM

Gabrielmot: Do a search of www.har.com for Houston (just for giggles).

Because the tax structure is so different here (no state taxes, just property and sales taxes), prices are no where near what they are in New York, Chicago, or LA. Same goes for any city in Texas including Dallas and Austin.

In the grocery a few days back, I just met a new retired couple who moved here from New York. They kept going on about how nice people were here, and how cheap housing, food, etc. was. You'll have to remember, that even though Texas votes Republican, most of the large cities are primarily Democrat, so they fit in nicely.

I'm originally from Louisiana, and I think people in Houston are jerks, and the cost of living and housing is expensive, even though I live in the "best" part of Houston (so YMMV).

A million dollar home in Houston and a moderate income gets you a lot more than you'd get in New York, Chicago, or LA (don't get me wrong, as a consultant, I loved Chicago when I was there for a year). But comparing on house value alone isn't a fair comparison.


Yeah, I guess so. I just figured that my experience in those cities applied in other states with similar sized cities.

serpent_sky: Not in NY or CT or a lot of the East Coast. A CHEAP house is $350,000. Average is $500,000-$750,000. $1,000,000 isn't uncommon by any means.

...and this is why I neither own a house nor have any savings.


Exactly. I guess I'm really out of touch with K Street or Main street or something
 
2013-05-14 12:02:30 PM
Keep in mind that average home prices are based on sales. Most people are too poor to move and they live in dumps.
 
2013-05-14 12:02:43 PM

thurstonxhowell: community college


This.
 
2013-05-14 12:02:52 PM

what_now: No they won't. I don't have time for this shiat today, because my actual students have sent me actual FAFSAs to review and I've been out of the country for a week, but take it from me: I've been doing this for a decade.


I'm going to take the time to type this post telling you that I don't have time to post a response to the post that you didn't have time to type when you typed it.
 
2013-05-14 12:03:27 PM

ThatGuyGreg: A family with a million dollar house earning $200,000 a year is most likely horrifically in debt, or if not, a layoff or health problem not covered by insurance away.

/just saying


Then they should stop living beyond their means, by selling the house and getting one they can afford.  Then, they can use the excess proceeds to send their kids to college.
 
2013-05-14 12:03:38 PM

James!: Well yeah, use your savings.  What else are you saving it for?


retirement. rainy days. so I don't have to be a drain on the government.

/ the more I take care of my own independence, the more I try to be responsible member of society, the more I will get farked in the ass by the government and its slaves
 
2013-05-14 12:04:28 PM

Gulper Eel: Lawnchair: DubyaHater: Earn $50K a year and have $200K in savings? No one in this planet is that good with money

Gulper Eel: I guess it's possible to sock away $200K on a 50K salary, but that's some serious Dave Ramsey devotion they've got going there.

Parents (and random uncles) die all the time. It's entirely possible.

TFA says $200K in savings, not $200K in inheritances.


Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke. Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke. Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.  Has to be a joke.

/Is your plan to spend 100% of the inheritance the second it hits your bank account?  If not...that money is now sitting in your bank account.  Or stuffed under a mattress.  But whatever it is, unless you instantly spent it all, it is savings.
 
2013-05-14 12:06:03 PM

chevydeuce: And a person with a Hispanic last name will get twice as much financial aid as one with a "white" sounding name, even though the Hispanic family makes nearly three times as much as the non-Hispanic one...

/why yes, I do have personal experience with this, why do you ask


Not federal aid. Not state aid. Just a private school.

Don't like it? Don't go to a private school.
 
2013-05-14 12:07:18 PM

img826.imageshack.us


Dear Jerk: A long time ago, I drove my country bumpkin wife through the old part of town and she looked in horror at all the $30k homes. I remember telling her, 'this is how most of the country lives.'

 
2013-05-14 12:08:53 PM

LineNoise: kab: And the best interest rates are reserved for the folks who need them the least.

Capitalism, working as intended.

Because the bank is losing money on your basic checking account that you draw down to 6 bucks every 2 weeks before payday.


I used to do that. I got paid once a month, paid bills, put money into savings, and then put everything on my credit card. I kept about $100-200 in cash in my checking account, at the BEGINNING of the month.

Then I switched to a local bank that gives me interest for keeping money in my checking account, and now I keep all my money there.

If the bank wants to make money from me, they need to give me a reason to keep some money there.
 
2013-05-14 12:11:10 PM
I paid for a public college education by working - it took six years - I graduated with no debt. All these cry babies complaining about student loans can suck it. I'm not alone. I know a lot of people that ate beans and lived one grade above homeless to achieve the same. The govt is just perpetuating poverty in the poor by indebting them thru college.
 
2013-05-14 12:11:17 PM
kab: And the best interest rates are reserved for the folks who need them the leastpay their bills and are likely to repay your loan.

Capitalism, working as intended.


-----
If you want to give away your own money to people with known problems paying their bills and with little hope of  ever seeing your money back, let alone the interest, then just go ahead and change your name to Charity.

Or we can just tax other people and hand out the money we won't get back, like Barry does.
 
2013-05-14 12:11:23 PM

Tatsuma: Mr.Man: Where I live if you bought a house in 96 for $250,000 it's worth a million today.
I was fortunate but It sure sucks for the time my kids want to buy a home.

In Israel it's pretty much the case anywhere in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem or the surrounding areas. Like, you will hardly find something decent in Jeru or TA if you put down less than $500,000.

How that can be the upper 10% in America, that just confuses me.


America is a very large place, with a lot of empty space and a lot of towns that were built around industries that do not exist anymore.
 
2013-05-14 12:12:02 PM
Student loans are evil.  Getting people who are barely old enough to sign legal contracts to take out massive unsecured loans that they will never be able to discharge via bankruptcy -- if that's not predatory, I don't know what is.

/ never had any student loans, thank God -- parents & scholarships paid for school
 
2013-05-14 12:13:51 PM

chevydeuce: And a person with a Hispanic last name will get twice as much financial aid as one with a "white" sounding name, even though the Hispanic family makes nearly three times as much as the non-Hispanic one...

/why yes, I do have personal experience with this, why do you ask


If it makes you feel any better, once I got to school I was pretty lonely.
 
2013-05-14 12:14:34 PM
The policy makers in this society push debt on the citizenry.

The elites are shedding debt while the citizenry are urged to take more. It makes sense because the primary driver of economic policy around the world at this time, are central banks. And the business model they understand is a banking-based one, which makes money from debt.
 
2013-05-14 12:14:48 PM

jshine: Student loans are evil.  Getting people who are barely old enough to sign legal contracts to take out massive unsecured loans that they will never be able to discharge via bankruptcy -- if that's not predatory, I don't know what is.

/ never had any student loans, thank God -- parents & scholarships paid for school


Well, the most obscene thing is that that we as a society has decided that it isn't in our best interest to ensure post-secondary education to the nation's best and brightest. We decided that we should make higher education a consumer item.

That's pretty farked up, right there.
 
2013-05-14 12:15:33 PM
A million dollar house is not a lot of money.  Most of the guys in my fraternity have a house at least that much in value.  Look, if these people don't want to have debt then they just need to get a job.

I spent a whole summer washing cars at my Dad's dealership to pay for school and I made plenty.  When I graduate next year, I'll have the sales manager job at the dealership waiting for me.  I've earned it.
 
2013-05-14 12:15:40 PM

Sticky Hands: Tatsuma: Mr.Man: Where I live if you bought a house in 96 for $250,000 it's worth a million today.
I was fortunate but It sure sucks for the time my kids want to buy a home.

In Israel it's pretty much the case anywhere in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem or the surrounding areas. Like, you will hardly find something decent in Jeru or TA if you put down less than $500,000.

How that can be the upper 10% in America, that just confuses me.

America is a very large place, with a lot of empty space and a lot of towns that were built around industries that do not exist anymore.


Given the amount of blood that has been spilled over such a tiny speck of land (Israel), the fact that you can own a piece of it by simply coughing up the shekels is actually pretty fortunate.
 
2013-05-14 12:16:18 PM
I wonder what percentage of the populace has over $200k in the bank?
 
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