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(WTSP)   DOT changed traffic signal timing rules to increase red light camera revenue   (wtsp.com) divider line 200
    More: Florida, red light cameras, florida, Florida Department of Transportation, National Motorists Association, direct payments, RLC, Florida Legislature, u.s. 19  
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10934 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 01:43:47 PM  
Are you trying to imply that or beneficent leaders would use all of the transportation, safety and public use infrastructure that we payed for and crafted to serve us, the body politic, into K-Mart crow bars to use to leverage our capital into their coffers?  Oh, treason and piffle.
 
2013-05-14 01:45:12 PM  

Kimpak: We need dynamic stop light systems.  Ones that analyze the traffic and adjust in real time, this would solve a lot of traffic issues.  This however costs money of course.  And would drastically reduce the income generated by red light cameras if there are fewer red lights.  So it will never happen.


They use camera controlled intersections where I live now (pretty rural area). They don't need to rip up pavement to install and they do a great job managing intersections here. Also saw a portable roadside setup managing a one-lane construction setup (instead of flaggers) being used last week in PA. Seemed to work perfectly. The induction loop and timed intersections need to go. They're an anachronism.
 
2013-05-14 01:46:29 PM  

amquelbettamin: Citizens are fighting back:
link
Double tap one today!


From that article: "Mayors and some police officers tout them as devices that reduce accidents while bringing much needed revenue to towns." It's not "bringing" money to town you idiot! It's squeezing money out of the town, basically redirecting it away from the private businesses that SHOULD have received that money. Why do red light cameras hate capitalism?
 
2013-05-14 01:48:04 PM  

Sczi: This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?


You'll never guess.
 
2013-05-14 01:56:29 PM  

new_york_monty: They use camera controlled intersections where I live now (pretty rural area). They don't need to rip up pavement to install and they do a great job managing intersections here. Also saw a portable roadside setup managing a one-lane construction setup (instead of flaggers) being used last week in PA. Seemed to work perfectly. The induction loop and timed intersections need to go. They're an anachronism.


There's better systems than the ones noted above.  That communicate with other stoplights.  So if you get a large grouping of vehicles on a major road for instance, the light system will time that group to have all green lights.  The cross streets get greens between the gaps.  There was an article on fark about it once.
 
2013-05-14 02:18:33 PM  
[Obvious] tag should win here.
 
2013-05-14 02:20:25 PM  

varmitydog: They have yet to put these things in where I live (Bay County, Florida), but I imagine they will get around to it eventually. Since our local politicians are predictable, we figure that when they put them in they won't put them anywhere near the gated communities but every main feeder road from the rural areas to town will have one.

I know about five people who swear that if they ever put them in that they will be hunting speed cameras in the wee hours of the morning---and knowing the folks down here I'm sure that there are more where they came from. It will be interesting to see if it actually happens or if all that big talk is just hot air.


I should've known you lived in a gated community... I feel safe, so gun control.
 
2013-05-14 02:20:53 PM  

Deep Contact: legion_of_doo: jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?

*quietly*
slow down.

OK, I'm whispering this. What     does    a    yellow   light    mean.


*quiet but forceful*
Slow down!
 
2013-05-14 02:21:11 PM  
 
2013-05-14 02:25:06 PM  

Edymnion: moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.

http://www.copradar.com/redlight/rdrform/redtyfm.html


The easy method would be speed limit / 10 + 1 in seconds.
40 mph should give at least a 5 second yellow.

Add time for hills and road special circumstances.
 
2013-05-14 02:25:41 PM  

moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.


Some states will give you the formula used.
Y = t + V/(2a+2Ag)
Y= Yellow clearance interval in seconds
t= reaction time (use 1 second)
V= 85%percentile approach speed in ft/sec/sec [can use speed limit]
a= deceleration rate of a vehicle(use 10 ft/sec/sec)
A= Acceleration due to gravity (32.2 ft/sec/sec)
g= percent grade in decimal form(+for upgrade,- for downgrade) this is
unknown.
*Calculate the yellow clearance interval to the nearest 0.1 second

(stolen from yahoo answers)
 
2013-05-14 02:36:45 PM  

theresnothinglft: Speaking of crosswalks a lot of lights around Princeton NJ have automated crosswalk signals with countdowns on them.  The countdown will prevent any and all attempts to gouge from yellow lights to me since they tell you exactly how long until the light changes.  These countdowns should be posted over the intersections with the normal lights.  IMO that would make things much safer than the current yellow light system.

Although.. if they did that they would lose all the revenue from the cameras.


I disagree with this.  It's an invitation to people to make up their own yellow lights.  The yellow light means, "Change to red is imminent.  Slow down now."  It doesn't mean, "Gauge for yourself whether you should accelerate to try to beat the red light."  You put a counter up there and drivers will say, "Hey that clock doesn't run right.  It said I had 8 seconds left, and that should have been plenty.  It's not my fault I t-boned somebody, it's the clock's."
 
2013-05-14 02:55:45 PM  

Lucubrationist: I think the Obvious tag would have been more appropriate here. Unfortunately, this issue isn't restricted to a single state.


Yeah, to the point that this is old news in Arizona. I think they finally admitted it 6 or 7 years ago, about the time I moved out, and other states admitted this before that. Florida is playing catch-up here, and since it isn't unique to FL this time, I agree that the 'Florida' tag is misplaced.
 
2013-05-14 02:59:52 PM  

theorellior: freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.

That's ricockulous. What's wrong with a green circle after the green arrow goes out? That's been "left turn yield" in all the states I've driven in.

Someone's gonna take a flashing yellow as meaning "better get through the intersection before you lose your chance" rather than "stop and yield to oncoming traffic". Do counties make money off of traffic accidents?


Flashing yellows are nothing but confusing. They've started installing these in Utah over the last 3 years or so, where the intersections were already the exact same, Left Turn After Yield. Now you have people who haven't encountered these stoping longer, thinking that the light is about to change, screaming through the intersection because they think it's about to change, or just sitting there trying to figure out what the fark is going on, because there are no actual signs.

The flashing yellow does NOTHING for safety and adds NOTHING to the intersection, people who turn in front of oncoming traffic are still going to have bad judgement, regardless of the presence or absence of a blinking yellow arrow.
 
2013-05-14 03:11:55 PM  

Kibbler: Everybody has their own opinion about the Black Plague.
We can all make up our own minds about the desirability of supermassive volcanoes.
Some people like serial murderers, some don't.
The populace is split right down the middle when it comes to nuking their own cities for no apparent reason.
Should we unleash the Kraken and bring down a thousand years of darkness?  You decide!

But if there is one thing, one issue, one inherent evil, one dark, horrible nightmare against which we all fervently align ourselves as patriotic freedom-loving Americans, it is the unutterable horror of the scourge of redlight cameras.  Any change of any kind is obviously automatic proof that they're just trying to make more money.


Well, we wouldn't think that if, for instance, we didn't have multiple articles showing that they place them not at the most dangerous intersections for red light running, but instead, the more trafficked ones. Or places that shut down their red light cameras when the number of red light citations went down. Or, as in this example, evidence that the yellow lights are calibrated in such a way as to insure more tickets.

Police officers, not cameras should be issuing citations. Common sense scenario that you see: a person pulls into an intersection with a green light. The person in front clears the intersection slowly, leaving the person behind to either stay in the middle of the intersection and block traffic, or trigger the camera.
 
2013-05-14 03:13:32 PM  

jrat454: legion_of_doo: jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?

*quietly*
slow down.

W h a t  d o e s  t h e  y e l l l l o w  l i g h t  m e a n ???


Came here for this, staying to point out this CSB: The law in Florida that regulated the RLCs was named after a high school classmate of mine that died in 2003 when someone ran a red light in Bradenton, though this was well after we graduated.  I mean, we were dumb, but not that dumb.
 
2013-05-14 03:17:00 PM  

Msol: TanSau: we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.

We have that in Vancouver, B.C. and it's extremely useful. Almost all major intersections have them.

The "Prepare to Stop" lights will start to flash while the intersection is still Green. After maybe 5 or 10 seconds the Green will go to Yellow then Red. The flashers will keep flashing until the intersection is Green again.

The neat thing is that the Prepare to Stop sign is usually a fair distance away from the intersection or around a corner, so you have plenty of information heading into the intersection. You'll now know weather you should speed up for the green or begin to slow down.


I appreciate those lights on route 29 in Virginia that flash yellow a distance from the intersection that the light will turn red if you are going proper speed as you reach the intersection, just as you described. It does remove the "i'm driving 55 miles an hour 10 yards short of the intersection, do I jam on the brakes or gun it. Is it a short yellow or long yellow. Do you feel lucky punk? Well do ya?
 
2013-05-14 03:19:20 PM  

Z-clipped: fluffy2097: Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.

I can state from personal experience (driving in Europe) that roundabouts work very well, even for high-speed traffic when they're properly designed.  Specifically, they need to be BIG.  I've never seen a well-designed roundabout in the US.  Not one.


Every time I hear bragging about the superiority of roundabouts I think of Dupont Circle and various other crappy intersections in Washington, D.C.
 
2013-05-14 03:31:03 PM  

Fano: Kibbler: Everybody has their own opinion about the Black Plague.
We can all make up our own minds about the desirability of supermassive volcanoes.
Some people like serial murderers, some don't.
The populace is split right down the middle when it comes to nuking their own cities for no apparent reason.
Should we unleash the Kraken and bring down a thousand years of darkness?  You decide!

But if there is one thing, one issue, one inherent evil, one dark, horrible nightmare against which we all fervently align ourselves as patriotic freedom-loving Americans, it is the unutterable horror of the scourge of redlight cameras.  Any change of any kind is obviously automatic proof that they're just trying to make more money.

Well, we wouldn't think that if, for instance, we didn't have multiple articles showing that they place them not at the most dangerous intersections for red light running, but instead, the more trafficked ones. Or places that shut down their red light cameras when the number of red light citations went down. Or, as in this example, evidence that the yellow lights are calibrated in such a way as to insure more tickets.

Police officers, not cameras should be issuing citations. Common sense scenario that you see: a person pulls into an intersection with a green light. The person in front clears the intersection slowly, leaving the person behind to either stay in the middle of the intersection and block traffic, or trigger the camera.


So there are corrupt police officers, right?  There are police officers who take bribes?  So we should get rid of them all, rather than fix the police force.

If (and the key word is if) red light cameras are abused, then the abuses should be corrected.  Concerned citizens should see to it.  But again, from what I hear, everyone is unanimously, unquestionably certain that red light cameras are just a huge scam to collect money, that's all, there is no public safety component whatsoever.  Just a money-making venture.

And when somebody does get a ticket for running a red light, all I've ever heard is, "I didn't run a red light, it was just a cop making his quota at the end of the month, it's all just a big money-making scam."

As someone who has, on more than one occasion, avoided almost certain death only by being very careful about entering intersections even when the light is green (which means that plenty of patriots behind me are blowing their horns), I prefer the money-making scam that teaches people, if you blow through this red light at 60 mph, it's going to cost you.
 
2013-05-14 03:37:46 PM  

sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.


I got hit with a $520 red light ticket here in San Diego County -- first time, even. Not cool.
 
2013-05-14 03:40:52 PM  

Kibbler: Fano: Kibbler: Everybody has their own opinion about the Black Plague.
We can all make up our own minds about the desirability of supermassive volcanoes.
Some people like serial murderers, some don't.
The populace is split right down the middle when it comes to nuking their own cities for no apparent reason.
Should we unleash the Kraken and bring down a thousand years of darkness?  You decide!

But if there is one thing, one issue, one inherent evil, one dark, horrible nightmare against which we all fervently align ourselves as patriotic freedom-loving Americans, it is the unutterable horror of the scourge of redlight cameras.  Any change of any kind is obviously automatic proof that they're just trying to make more money.

Well, we wouldn't think that if, for instance, we didn't have multiple articles showing that they place them not at the most dangerous intersections for red light running, but instead, the more trafficked ones. Or places that shut down their red light cameras when the number of red light citations went down. Or, as in this example, evidence that the yellow lights are calibrated in such a way as to insure more tickets.

Police officers, not cameras should be issuing citations. Common sense scenario that you see: a person pulls into an intersection with a green light. The person in front clears the intersection slowly, leaving the person behind to either stay in the middle of the intersection and block traffic, or trigger the camera.

So there are corrupt police officers, right?  There are police officers who take bribes?  So we should get rid of them all, rather than fix the police force.

If (and the key word is if) red light cameras are abused, then the abuses should be corrected.  Concerned citizens should see to it.  But again, from what I hear, everyone is unanimously, unquestionably certain that red light cameras are just a huge scam to collect money, that's all, there is no public safety component whatsoever.  Just a money-making venture.

...


That's fine, you install red light cameras for a living. Here is a useful collection of studies from the first page of google searches: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies

Apparently it's pretty unanimous.
 
2013-05-14 03:54:36 PM  

Shrink: sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.

I got hit with a $520 red light ticket here in San Diego County -- first time, even. Not cool.


Hey, at least we get to live in beautiful beach towns, life isn't that bad.
 
2013-05-14 04:01:17 PM  
This surprises....who?  Anyone?  Here in WI, the DOT is trying to get it's funding enshrined in the state constitution for fark's sake....
 
2013-05-14 04:10:55 PM  

fluffy2097: msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.

Roundabouts were designed for horse and buggies, to allow them to not lose momentum while going through an intersection. They work great, until you get into high traffic levels (like we have today), then they just clog and become horribly dangerous.

Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.


Personally:

They work great when you have Big road intersecting Little road (where Little is large enough to justify a stoplight) and you can count on the surrounding stoplights to create gaps for little road people. You end up with a de facto always-green for Big road, which is annoying for Little road, but usable.

They work even better (and way better than lights) at places where everyone is turning the same direction (See M-5 and Pontiac Trail).  Instead of letting everyone sit at the light waiting, they have everyone turning continuously all the time.  It's a de facto open green except for when there are (rare) people who want to go the other direction.  (Heck, if we could get one at the Rengstorff Road exit, we'd fix 101S through Silicon Valley in the evenings, because EVERYONE wants to turn left, and they can't so it backs up onto the freeway).
 
2013-05-14 04:11:20 PM  

sandi_fish: I prefer the money-making scam that teaches people, if you blow through this red light at 60 mph, it's going to cost you.


...

Which one is that, because red light cameras don't work if you go blowing through the intersection.  Funny isn't it?
You are welcome to test this, but I have the technical data.  It's simple, the system is tuned to catch people "running yellows".  If the light is solid red and you blow through at the speed limit or higher, the camera will never even take your picture.

Enjoy that false sense of security.
 
2013-05-14 04:17:46 PM  

sandi_fish: Good luck, (here anyway), they take a pic of the front (with driver), back and even video if you are going too fast to stop for the red.


I have a red light speeding ticket from maryland in my hand right now.  There are pictures of my licence and NO front view. The bike rack might not be a bad idea.
 
2013-05-14 04:48:45 PM  
Why do dumbasses do this?

Simply increase the times on the other 95% of the lights.  That way, you can simply make the true statement that you have not lowered the interval on any lights in the district.
 
2013-05-14 04:53:05 PM  

Warmachine999: Thanks, but no thanks. They replaced two intersections around here with those crappy things, and low and behold, traffic got worse in the area instead of better, and the number of accidents went UP.


Then they must be lousily engineered roundabouts.  They have a triple one in town, lowest accident area going, and the busiest.

sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.


Is it a red light ticket, as handed out by a police officer, or a 'red light citation', as handed out by automatic camera systems?  The latter is normally a lot cheaper.

fluffy2097: Roundabouts were designed for horse and buggies, to allow them to not lose momentum while going through an intersection. They work great, until you get into high traffic levels (like we have today), then they just clog and become horribly dangerous.


Depends on the traffic levels.  They have more capacity than a 4 way stop, but less than a red light system.  Starting from a dead stop costs gas mileage.

PhDemented: What the hell is the point of the yellow arrow, when a green light on the straight lane means the exact same thing, except to confuse people?


The argument is that green is MORE confusing, because people tend to think that it means a protected turn, IE  they have priority.  Not all roads today are set up where you can glance right at the straight-through next to you and tell whether or not the opposite side has a green light.

By making it yellow you make it obvious that 'turn only if a sufficient opening in traffic is present' is the rule in effect.  The old system was to have 5 lights - green arrow was protected turn, full circle was 'yield, but go if you have the opportunity'.

Fano: Every time I hear bragging about the superiority of roundabouts I think of Dupont Circle and various other crappy intersections in Washington, D.C.


Yeah, there's some crappy ones out there.  I think the problem is with cost-cutting and that US traffic engineers don't really know how to make a good one.  There are some where they actually got a European traffic engineer over here to help with the design, they aren't bad.
 
2013-05-14 04:56:39 PM  

Fano: Memphis could singlehandedly solve all budget problems for the state of Tennessee by putting up some red light cameras


In many jurisdictions, less than 20% of citations are ever paid. These cameras aren't generating revenue, they're generating work for the courts. Whether or not the jurisdiction ever sees a cent depends on whether or not the jurisdiction is effective in collecting fines. In the worst cases, the additional workload is actually decreasing revenue. In one major city I'm aware of 600 million dollars in unpaid fines. The city is considering a huge amnesty program just to get their drivers back on the road legally.
 
2013-05-14 05:10:58 PM  

Mugato: Well obviously smaller side roads have longer red lights if they are opposite highways




They should all be exactly the same, every where.
 
2013-05-14 05:20:30 PM  

msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.


But if you have roundabouts, what about the jobs of all those people that have to replace the light bulbs in the traffic signal?
 
2013-05-14 05:40:48 PM  

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


[stmedia.startribune.com image 630x324]


Wow, that seems dumb at first... but now that I think about it, the only alternative is to change the green arrow to a green globe, and extinguish the green arrow/yellow arrow.. I guess it might be a little awkward to have the flashing yellow arrow, but I guess it does make some sense. Heck, I can see that it makes more sense than just a green globe remaining.

I see that it's an optional change introduced in MUTCD 2009.
 
2013-05-14 05:47:12 PM  

Mikey1969: Lucubrationist: I think the Obvious tag would have been more appropriate here. Unfortunately, this issue isn't restricted to a single state.

Yeah, to the point that this is old news in Arizona. I think they finally admitted it 6 or 7 years ago, about the time I moved out, and other states admitted this before that. Florida is playing catch-up here, and since it isn't unique to FL this time, I agree that the 'Florida' tag is misplaced.


I still think it's because of the facial recognition fiasco that happened down here, that caused the delay.
 
2013-05-14 06:15:43 PM  

mod3072: It sounds to me like this should increase the safety of those intersections by at least a factor of 10. Maybe instead of whining about a few little traffic tickets, you should be thankful for FDOT's steadfast dedication to making your lives safer.


Are you a cop?
 
2013-05-14 06:44:08 PM  
People really think that yellow arrows are complicated? I always knew I was surrounded by retards.
 
2013-05-14 06:49:41 PM  
Obvious seems more appropriate than Florida on this one subbs
 
2013-05-14 07:00:03 PM  

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.


This is what happens when taxes are raised constantly...gotta pay off the new cronies and union bosses somehow.
 
2013-05-14 07:06:08 PM  

Oldiron_79: Obvious seems more appropriate than Florida on this one subbs




Too many assholes down here talking about how cheap it is to live down here. fark you cocks!

Transplants can't farking stand the heat and always complain. Stop driving up the taxes you farks. I know you will be gone to South Carolina or someplace cooler after you have farked it up down here.

Now we have those unconstitutional farking redlight cameras. Haha, fark you, I drive the speed limit and stop at all stop signage. I've been practicing for years. Really pisses off self-important people behind me. fark'em.

/New Yorker
 
2013-05-14 07:37:19 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: /New Yorker


I never would have guessed.
 
2013-05-14 08:07:28 PM  
There's a red light camera in Tallahassee where the yellow light is 3 secs, and they have the balls to show it to you when you watch the video. Boss's daughter got one. I told them to fight it. 3 secs is way below the minimum.
 
2013-05-14 08:30:36 PM  

karmaceutical: I was nearly rear ended at the main intersection on my way to the highway to work the other day.  I got a red light camera ticket there last year... so I stopped after the car before more drove through on yellow.  The guy behind me obviously had never gotten a ticket at that intersection.  He was road-raging me pretty good after that.


I actually DID get rear ended in that type of situation on a business trip a few years ago.  The guy behind me had enough money that I guess he didn't mind the thought of getting a ticket, whereas I didn't have that luxury at that time in my life and couldn't take chances on red light camera technology quirks.

The tow-truck company that the guy called to come out to get his car knew him by first name and seemed completely unsurprised (and seemed to find it humorous) that they were picking him up "again".  So, I dare the red light camera proponents of the world to tell me again how these things are supposedly retraining the red light runners and distracted drivers.  All they seem to do is give the fools a stationary target that's easier to hit.

Running a red light is not what I'm wanting to do... feeling safe (from glitchy technology and unskilled reviewers) to proceed under a yellow if needed is what I want to do.

I'm beginning to stop visiting cities with red light cameras.  Too bad everyone doesn't have the flexibility to simply speak with their money and stop visiting the camera cities.
 
2013-05-14 09:03:13 PM  
boarch: I should've known you lived in a gated community... I feel safe, so gun control.

No, I don't live in a gated community. About 30 years ago I moved to the end of a dirt road out in the sticks and put up a fence to keep everyone away from me. My nearest neighbor is 3/4 of a mile away.

And living in the country, I have an assortment of weapons, which I need to kill snakes, squirrels (I cultivate nut trees), rabid critters and such. Plus it takes the nearest cops 15 minutes going 90 to reach where I live, so I need them--- just in case. I reckon if they pass gun laws I will just have to make hidey-holes for the guns----it would be a hardship to be without them where I live. Although some folks do.
 
2013-05-15 12:13:50 AM  
Simply stand on the brakes and pull your emergency brake to stop in time to stay within the law. They change the stopping distance, you change your driving habits.
 
2013-05-15 01:44:13 AM  

Fano: Z-clipped: fluffy2097: Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.

I can state from personal experience (driving in Europe) that roundabouts work very well, even for high-speed traffic when they're properly designed.  Specifically, they need to be BIG.  I've never seen a well-designed roundabout in the US.  Not one.

Every time I hear bragging about the superiority of roundabouts I think of Dupont Circle and various other crappy intersections in Washington, D.C.


Dupont Circle is NOT a roundabout. It's a paved circular infernal shiatshow with something like 17 traffic lights tossed in for extra pain and suffering.

I've lived in the DC area for just over a month now, and I'm convinced that Dupont was built as a trap to keep stupid tourists off of 20th Street.

/if it's got lights, it ain't no roundabout
 
2013-05-15 01:51:43 AM  

Fano: Kibbler: Everybody has their own opinion about the Black Plague.
We can all make up our own minds about the desirability of supermassive volcanoes.
Some people like serial murderers, some don't.
The populace is split right down the middle when it comes to nuking their own cities for no apparent reason.
Should we unleash the Kraken and bring down a thousand years of darkness?  You decide!

But if there is one thing, one issue, one inherent evil, one dark, horrible nightmare against which we all fervently align ourselves as patriotic freedom-loving Americans, it is the unutterable horror of the scourge of redlight cameras.  Any change of any kind is obviously automatic proof that they're just trying to make more money.

Well, we wouldn't think that if, for instance, we didn't have multiple articles showing that they place them not at the most dangerous intersections for red light running, but instead, the more trafficked ones. Or places that shut down their red light cameras when the number of red light citations went down. Or, as in this example, evidence that the yellow lights are calibrated in such a way as to insure more tickets.

Police officers, not cameras should be issuing citations. Common sense scenario that you see: a person pulls into an intersection with a green light. The person in front clears the intersection slowly, leaving the person behind to either stay in the middle of the intersection and block traffic, or trigger the camera.


I'm pretty sure that red light cameras only pop you for ENTERING the intersection after the light turns red... not for BEING IN the intersection when the light turns red.

/just sayin', know your enemy
 
2013-05-15 02:20:05 AM  

Z-clipped: I'm pretty sure that red light cameras only pop you for ENTERING the intersection after the light turns red... not for BEING IN the intersection when the light turns red.


Eh. I have a hard time mustering outrage for someone blocking the box getting a ticket.
 
2013-05-15 02:54:34 AM  

fluffy2097: Z-clipped: I'm pretty sure that red light cameras only pop you for ENTERING the intersection after the light turns red... not for BEING IN the intersection when the light turns red.

Eh. I have a hard time mustering outrage for someone blocking the box getting a ticket.


Nor do I. I'm just saying, red light cameras do not work that way! Goodnight!
 
2013-05-15 09:50:34 AM  

greatgodyoshi: There's a red light camera in Tallahassee where the yellow light is 3 secs, and they have the balls to show it to you when you watch the video. Boss's daughter got one. I told them to fight it. 3 secs is way below the minimum.


Isn't that every red light here?
 
2013-05-15 10:33:19 AM  

Firethorn: Warmachine999: Thanks, but no thanks. They replaced two intersections around here with those crappy things, and low and behold, traffic got worse in the area instead of better, and the number of accidents went UP.

Then they must be lousily engineered roundabouts.  They have a triple one in town, lowest accident area going, and the busiest.

sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.

Is it a red light ticket, as handed out by a police officer, or a 'red light citation', as handed out by automatic camera systems?  The latter is normally a lot cheaper.

fluffy2097: Roundabouts were designed for horse and buggies, to allow them to not lose momentum while going through an intersection. They work great, until you get into high traffic levels (like we have today), then they just clog and become horribly dangerous.

Depends on the traffic levels.  They have more capacity than a 4 way stop, but less than a red light system.  Starting from a dead stop costs gas mileage.

PhDemented: What the hell is the point of the yellow arrow, when a green light on the straight lane means the exact same thing, except to confuse people?

The argument is that green is MORE confusing, because people tend to think that it means a protected turn, IE  they have priority.  Not all roads today are set up where you can glance right at the straight-through next to you and tell whether or not the opposite side has a green light.

By making it yellow you make it obvious that 'turn only if a sufficient opening in traffic is present' is the rule in effect.  The old system was to have 5 lights - green arrow was protected turn, full circle was 'yield, but go if you have the opportunity'.

Fano: Every time I hear bragging about the superiority of roundabouts I think of Dupont Circle and various other crappy intersections in Washington, D.C.

Yeah, there's some crappy ones out there.  I think the problem is with cost-cutting and that US traffic engineers ...


It was a red light ticket by a machine, not a cop.
 
2013-05-15 07:51:21 PM  
greatgodyoshi: There's a red light camera in Tallahassee where the yellow light is 3 secs, and they have the balls to show it to you when you watch the video. Boss's daughter got one. I told them to fight it. 3 secs is way below the minimum.

Isn't that every red light here?


Well, yeah. But this is the only one I've seen definitive proof of. It was Apalachee and Magnolia, by the way. The left turn onto Magnolia as you're heading toward Cap Circle SE, specifically. For future reference.
 
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