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(WTSP)   DOT changed traffic signal timing rules to increase red light camera revenue   (wtsp.com) divider line 201
    More: Florida, red light cameras, florida, Florida Department of Transportation, National Motorists Association, direct payments, RLC, Florida Legislature, u.s. 19  
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10927 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 09:39:52 AM  
eff the DOT
 
2013-05-14 10:14:32 AM  
I think the Obvious tag would have been more appropriate here. Unfortunately, this issue isn't restricted to a single state.
 
2013-05-14 10:21:30 AM  
I like how the news calls any legislation "quiet" when they fail to report on it.
 
2013-05-14 10:29:20 AM  
Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.
 
2013-05-14 10:32:12 AM  
I've never heard of such a thing happening.  To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm
 
2013-05-14 10:33:50 AM  

Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.


You doubt the complexity in the mathematical operations of physics that determine where a dart lands on a board?
 
2013-05-14 10:42:49 AM  

labman: I've never heard of such a thing happening. To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm



But this is the government. They arn't motivated by petty things like profit.
 
2013-05-14 10:49:47 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

You doubt the complexity in the mathematical operations of physics that determine where a dart lands on a board?


Well obviously smaller side roads have longer red lights if they are opposite highways but I just can't see that much thought going into it, especially if they're farking with the timing to create a 21st century version of the speed trap.

Weren't these farking things banned in some states?
 
2013-05-14 11:03:28 AM  

Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.


What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.
 
2013-05-14 11:07:02 AM  
New York would never do something so obvious as fark with the timing on the lights.

They'd simply design the road horribly in the first place by doing something like putting three sets of lights on a half-mile downhill stretch of road, then half-assing the set-up of the light timing - and when the mistakes are brought to their attention, then they'll have a cop camp out by the malfunctioning light to pull people over who weren't expecting a 3am red light for an intersection at a strip mall where all the stores have been closed for six hours.

Bonus: putting lights on hills means the pavement gets all chattery real fast from trucks slamming on the brakes on the hills, and the asphalt contractors get extra work!
 
2013-05-14 11:22:09 AM  
Same thing happened in Georgia, the city responsible had to refund thousands of tickets.
 
2013-05-14 11:23:47 AM  

moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.


Toss a journalist a Rubik's Cube. Then discuss complexity.
 
2013-05-14 11:24:10 AM  
Hear that? That's the rumblings of a class action lawsuit.
 
2013-05-14 11:24:37 AM  
Oldsmar had a similar issue, where its intersection at Tampa Rd. and SR-580 (State St.) was improperly timed.  The yellow light was just 3.0 seconds instead of 4.3 seconds. When the problem was addressed last fall, citations plummeted by 90 percent. But no notices, or refunds, went out to ticketed drivers. for $afety
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-05-14 11:26:19 AM  
New York would never do something so obvious as fark with the timing on the lights.

New York used to have a section of its traffic control device manual describing signals specifically meant to mess with drivers. 17 NYCRR 275.5 (2001) "Speed control signals" (aka "rest on red"). They are designed to give you a red light if the control box doesn't approve of your speed. I can't find them in the current MUTCD supplement. New York may have abandoned them. California still uses them.
 
2013-05-14 11:28:04 AM  
I was nearly rear ended at the main intersection on my way to the highway to work the other day.  I got a red light camera ticket there last year... so I stopped after the car before more drove through on yellow.  The guy behind me obviously had never gotten a ticket at that intersection.  He was road-raging me pretty good after that.
 
2013-05-14 11:28:51 AM  

Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.


"Complex" to a journalist.

You know, anything that involves more than a "+" sign.
 
2013-05-14 11:28:55 AM  

moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.


I don't know what all the independent variables are, but the dependent variable ends with a dollar sign.
 
2013-05-14 11:31:47 AM  
Not to mention this will get a few people hurt possibly even killed.
 
2013-05-14 11:32:56 AM  
I personally like how the cities have raised the rates for fighting a ticket.  Goes from 158  to 406.00 if you decide to fight the ticket.

I am real interested in finding out how many have fought this and won or lost.

Red light cameras and the whole operation is a giant scam on the public.
 
2013-05-14 11:33:23 AM  
Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


stmedia.startribune.com
 
2013-05-14 11:34:52 AM  

ZAZ: New York used to have a section of its traffic control device manual describing signals specifically meant to mess with drivers. 17 NYCRR 275.5 (2001) "Speed control signals" (aka "rest on red"). They are designed to give you a red light if the control box doesn't approve of your speed. I can't find them in the current MUTCD supplement. New York may have abandoned them.


Here's one from 2008 (PDF). I've never encountered one myself in NY, driving mostly in Ulster/Dutchess/Putnam/Westchester - the messed-up signals and traffic cops waiting to pounce on every ticky-tack violation seem to take care of revenue quite nicely. Doesn't do jack shiat for safety, though.
 
2013-05-14 11:35:00 AM  
This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.
 
2013-05-14 11:35:43 AM  
It sounds to me like this should increase the safety of those intersections by at least a factor of 10. Maybe instead of whining about a few little traffic tickets, you should be thankful for FDOT's steadfast dedication to making your lives safer.
 
2013-05-14 11:36:16 AM  
D*cks
 
2013-05-14 11:37:00 AM  
Think of the children.
 
2013-05-14 11:37:04 AM  
Well I feel safer now. Cause after all its about safety!
 
2013-05-14 11:38:18 AM  

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.


While true, it's not like they need a reason beyond gouging the public.
 
2013-05-14 11:39:22 AM  

mod3072: It sounds to me like this should increase the safety of those intersections by at least a factor of 10. Maybe instead of whining about a few little traffic tickets, you should be thankful for FDOT's steadfast dedication to making your lives safer.


4/10

Obvious, but you'll get a bite.
 
2013-05-14 11:39:23 AM  
If this is all about safety, which I'm sure it is, they should put another yellow in the middle there. That way drivers will have twice as long to contemplate the eternal question. Mash the gas or slam on the brakes.
 
2013-05-14 11:39:52 AM  

Mugato: IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

You doubt the complexity in the mathematical operations of physics that determine where a dart lands on a board?

Well obviously smaller side roads have longer red lights if they are opposite highways but I just can't see that much thought going into it, especially if they're farking with the timing to create a 21st century version of the speed trap.

Weren't these farking things banned in some states?


Yeah, I mean I can understand the balance of red and green lights and the ordering being critical, complex and interrelated with traffic flows and patterns everywhere in the region in a complex and dynamic pattern that would required advanced modeling and regular real world checking to see if things are working as expected to get the optimum arrangement. But yellow lights should be virtually fixed and consistent with just adjustments for a few basic factors as far as I can tell.

Then again you do wonder if there needs to be a rethink, fundamentally the red/yellow/green setup of traffic lights still ends up with the Starman effect too much (Red: Stop. Green: Go. Yellow: Go really fast)

/obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possible
 
2013-05-14 11:40:20 AM  

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.


That's cute. Naive, but cute.
 
2013-05-14 11:41:27 AM  
This pretty much proves what most of our government thinks of us: a farking piggy bank they can bilk as much as they damn well please.
 
2013-05-14 11:42:21 AM  

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.


But, taxiz izz soshulzzmms!
 
2013-05-14 11:42:49 AM  
Oh, but if you're not doing anything wrong, then this should be okay, right?

You must blindly follow the rules that your magnanimous government has set forth to protect you.
They would NEVER trample your rights in order to control you and wring more money out of you.

Never.
 
2013-05-14 11:43:17 AM  
$afety first
 
2013-05-14 11:44:06 AM  
Red-light cameras are the electronic version of the TSA.
 
2013-05-14 11:45:52 AM  
This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?
 
2013-05-14 11:47:08 AM  
Next, counties will reduce speed limits just inside the intersections so as to "legally" decrease the yellow light timing. This is the problem when you make traffic handling profit oriented instead of safety oriented!
 
2013-05-14 11:48:21 AM  

Mytch: $afety first


Came here to say exactly this.
 
2013-05-14 11:48:54 AM  

theBigBigEye: This pretty much proves what most of our government thinks of us: a farking piggy bank they can bilk as much as they damn well please.


michiganleftblog.com

"Same as it ever was."
 
2013-05-14 11:49:17 AM  
we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.
 
msP
2013-05-14 11:49:34 AM  
"While yellow light times were reduced by mere fractions of a second..."

Sounds to me like only the people who should get caught and getting caught.. if you're getting caught because of a fraction of a second less, that's the same as getting caught before they changed it. Not that I agree with RLCs, jussayin'.
 
2013-05-14 11:50:32 AM  
Since Florida spends lots of money to attract visitors, this makes it dangerous for drivers from others states, since the driver behavior is different.

Drivers from vacation returning to others states which actually follow federal rules make be rear-ended more from panic stopping at a yellow light or speed up to get out of the intersections.

Really POed feds could declare that any ticket/fine mailed from a red light Florida camera to be mail fraud. Certainly, since Florida doesn't pay for half the damage to rear-end collisions at red light camera intersections, they should probably pay by sacrificing the local bureaucrat who OKed the deal if there is a fatality at that intersection.

Intelligent traffic lights have a countdown feature that tell the seconds before the light turns yellow. And usually the yellow light duration is quite reasonable.
 
2013-05-14 11:51:07 AM  
What does the yellow light mean?
 
2013-05-14 11:51:16 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: labman: I've never heard of such a thing happening. To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm


But this is the government. They arn't motivated by petty things like profit.

 The government has to pay for the services it provides, like your mental-health disability payments, your medicaid and so forth somehow. Since taxes are bad, it only makes sense we get revenue from people who can't be bothered to follow simple rules, like stopping at a red light.
 
2013-05-14 11:52:20 AM  

jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?


Floor it (in Florida, at least)
 
2013-05-14 11:53:22 AM  
just make everything around the Disney swamp into a toll road, and charge crazy expensive rates.

/ because they've not completely done that yet
 
2013-05-14 11:54:38 AM  

TanSau: we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.


Yeah, like they do with cross walks. How hard would that be?
 
2013-05-14 11:55:12 AM  

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


That's ricockulous. What's wrong with a green circle after the green arrow goes out? That's been "left turn yield" in all the states I've driven in.

Someone's gonna take a flashing yellow as meaning "better get through the intersection before you lose your chance" rather than "stop and yield to oncoming traffic". Do counties make money off of traffic accidents?
 
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