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(WTSP)   DOT changed traffic signal timing rules to increase red light camera revenue   (wtsp.com) divider line 201
    More: Florida, red light cameras, florida, Florida Department of Transportation, National Motorists Association, direct payments, RLC, Florida Legislature, u.s. 19  
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10921 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 12:27:10 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


[stmedia.startribune.com image 630x324]


Ugh those are turning up everywhere here too and my first reaction encountering one was WTF? Is it about to go red? I don't know what was wrong with the damn yield on green circle
 
2013-05-14 12:27:28 PM
This story is an obvious lie.    State Governments, in general,  would never ever do something like this.


What kind of farcical stories will the Mass Media come up with?
The IRS is targeting specific groups.... pfft.    Nonsense.
 
2013-05-14 12:28:04 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


[stmedia.startribune.com image 630x324]



You'd rather have to sit for a full cycle to make a left? Not to mention the fact that multi-phase lights destroy the throughput of the intersection. Here in WA we are finally started to get some of those and I am so very, very happy about it.
 
2013-05-14 12:28:36 PM

Warmachine999: msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.

Thanks, but no thanks.  They replaced two intersections around here with those crappy things, and low and behold, traffic got worse in the area instead of better, and the number of accidents went UP.


Maybe the minimum intelligence requirement for getting a driver's license is too low in your State.

The biggest problem is that traffic on the road coming off the highway is just about constant, and as that traffic is going through with 'the right of way' as cars are going through the intersection constantly with no breaks in the traffic, the cars on the cross streets are stuck waiting for access to the road.

If roundabouts were the only intersection option back from when we started getting motorized vehicles, then yes, it would be better.  Since we did not, you have to retrain EVERYONE on how to drive through those crappy things.  I have watched people turn left on a roundabout, because they don't want to go right, they need to go on the road to the left, which is a shorter distance to go anyway.  Why go all the way around and waste that much more gas?

Stop lights, or even stop signs at a 4 way intersection.  That's the way to go.


Why "retrain" people? Roundabouts ain't rocket surgery. Slow down the approaches, make sure they're clearly marked and brightly lit, and post a traffic cop for a few weeks at the spot to pull over and ticket the imbeciles who cannot fathom the idea of "Yield to traffic in circle" until people learn to navigate them without their heads in their asses.

Here, they put in a huge mega-mall in an old cow pasture right next to the freeway, the company that built it fought tooth and nail against having to pay for improvements to the freeway exits and widening the cross-highway to accommodate the traffic, so what you see now is no fewer than three stoplights in a half block, in all four directions. Starting at about 2 in the afternoon, it is total gridlock. Traffic circles have been suggested, and someone has already pointed out that putting three of those things in a row, two of which would be covering freeway off-ramps and on-ramps next to the Mall would be insanity. So the stoplights remain. Meanwhile, anyone who actually lives in the area has discovered that it is easier and faster to drive 30 blocks out of the way to get from point A to point B instead of trying to navigate through that flustercluck.
 
2013-05-14 12:29:45 PM

studs up: sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.

My brother just got one there. Anybody fighting and winning?


Not that I know of, but he should try to fight it, they should reduce the fine.
 
2013-05-14 12:30:46 PM
Everybody has their own opinion about the Black Plague.
We can all make up our own minds about the desirability of supermassive volcanoes.
Some people like serial murderers, some don't.
The populace is split right down the middle when it comes to nuking their own cities for no apparent reason.
Should we unleash the Kraken and bring down a thousand years of darkness?  You decide!

But if there is one thing, one issue, one inherent evil, one dark, horrible nightmare against which we all fervently align ourselves as patriotic freedom-loving Americans, it is the unutterable horror of the scourge of redlight cameras.  Any change of any kind is obviously automatic proof that they're just trying to make more money.
 
2013-05-14 12:32:06 PM

theorellior: Deathfrogg: calling them a waste of valuable taxpayer money and a horrible manipulation of people's freedumbs and liberties to drive as they please.

That's funny, a roundabout removes a government sign forcing you to stop and instead allows you to participate in the free market of traffic flow with your fellow citizens. You'd think they'd be all over that like white on rice.


One can never misunderestimate the intelligence of the folks who actively consider everything the Government does (except dropping high explosives on brown people) to be socialism. This was a Sundown town well into the middle 1960s.
 
2013-05-14 12:34:18 PM

Deathfrogg: Why "retrain" people? Roundabouts ain't rocket surgery. Slow down the approaches, make sure they're clearly marked and brightly lit, and post a traffic cop for a few weeks at the spot to pull over and ticket the imbeciles who cannot fathom the idea of "Yield to traffic in circle" until people learn to navigate them without their heads in their asses.

Here, they put in a huge mega-mall in an old cow pasture right next to the freeway, the company that built it fought tooth and nail against having to pay for improvements to the freeway exits and widening the cross-highway to accommodate the traffic, so what you see now is no fewer than three stoplights in a half block, in all four directions. Starting at about 2 in the afternoon, it is total gridlock. Traffic circles have been suggested, and someone has already pointed out that putting three of those things in a row, two of which would be covering freeway off-ramps and on-ramps next to the Mall would be insanity. So the stoplights remain. Meanwhile, anyone who actually lives in the area has discovered that it is easier and faster to drive 30 blocks out of the way to get from point A to point B instead of trying to navigate through that flustercluck.


Actually, in Ann Arbor, they had the same situation which was resolved with traffic circles:  US-23 and Geddes Road (which is near two colleges).  While it still is busy, it's nowhere near the madness as stoplights were.  While the traffic circles do slow traffic, they still allow movement and work much better.

The only reason people don't like them is because it's something new and goes against the 'hit the accelerator and slam the brakes' mentality of driving.
 
2013-05-14 12:35:26 PM
theorellior:

That's funny, a roundabout removes a government sign forcing you to stop and instead allows you to participate in the free market of traffic flow with your fellow citizens. You'd think they'd be all over that like white on rice.

They keep the YIELD sign.

And what does yield mean?

Definition:  give in, surrender

Synonyms:  abandon, abdicate, admit defeat, back down, bend, bow, break, buy, call it quits, capitulate, cave in, cede, collapse, come to terms, crumple, defer, fold, fold up, give oneself over, give up, give way, go, hand over, knuckle, knuckle under, lay down arms, leave, let go, part with, relax, relent, relinquish, resign, sag, submit, succumb, suffer defeat, throw in the towel


While stop is just a request for a moment.. YIELD is far more.. sinister.
 
2013-05-14 12:35:28 PM
I read that as:

DOJ changed traffic signal timing rules to increase red light camera revenue

This scandalgate will get out of control.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-14 12:36:12 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


[stmedia.startribune.com image 630x324]


In my experience, these are used on left turn lanes with a dedicated signal, which means no green circle. Traditionally, after the arrow turned red and the opposing traffic was given a green, those in the left turn lane were stuck waiting for the rest of the cycle, even if there was no oncoming traffic. This solves that problem.

As for accidents, it's common for lights to flash yellow on the main streets and red on the cross streets at night. Flashing red is equivalent to a stop sign, flashing yellow is equivalent to a yield sign.
 
2013-05-14 12:40:08 PM
They can't raise sales tax or property tax because they will never get re-elected but they can "punish the bad people" by screwing with the lights and no one will say anything. they actually had to change the constitution here in Miami so they could do this legally BTW. Not that they hadn't already done it regardless of the constitution.
 
2013-05-14 12:40:27 PM

Deathfrogg: This was a Sundown town well into the middle 1960s.


Urf. That's crazy.

Kristoph57: While stop is just a request for a moment.. YIELD is far more.. sinister.


Somebody better get Glenn Beck on it stat!
 
2013-05-14 12:41:24 PM
Anyone remotely surprised by this is as naive as a child. Cops and robbers have been the same thing since the invention of the automobile, and now live cops have been replaced by cameras.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-05-14 12:41:47 PM
pet peave time.. and tangentially relevant:

People... if you learn anything from Fark in your lifetime, please learn this:

Basic traffic law says that when a stoplight has lost power then the intersection turns into a four way stop.

It is *not* "biggest road gets the right of way."

It's amazing the number of middle fingers and horns I've gotten just trying to follow this most basic of laws while living in Indiana.
 
2013-05-14 12:44:23 PM
The best part about a red light camera is, if it sees you running an intersection that's full of traffic, it deploys a force bubble which slows your car and prevents you from hitting that traffic.
 
2013-05-14 12:44:30 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.



They started installing those a year or so ago here. They cause much confusion. I do not like them.
 
2013-05-14 12:47:02 PM

Detinwolf: The best part about a red light camera is, if it sees you running an intersection that's full of traffic, it deploys a force bubble which slows your car and prevents you from hitting that traffic.


If you make the yellow light the proper length, traffic cameras demonstrably decrease the number of serious accidents (t-bones) from people running red lights, with something like a 3% increase in minor rear end collisions when some dipshiat on his cell phone wasn't paying attention to the road and was tailgating at the same time.

/It's called a "you won't get away with running this red light" field.
//It becomes useless when you shorten the yellow lights.
 
2013-05-14 12:47:07 PM

d23: Basic traffic law says that when a stoplight has lost power then the intersection turns into a four way stop.

It is *not* "biggest road gets the right of way."


Try that on US19 in Pinellas county when the lights go out.  You'll get rear-ended at 65 mph.
 
2013-05-14 12:47:48 PM

Whistling Kitty Chaser: In my experience, these are used on left turn lanes with a dedicated signal, which means no green circle. Traditionally, after the arrow turned red and the opposing traffic was given a green, those in the left turn lane were stuck waiting for the rest of the cycle, even if there was no oncoming traffic. This solves that problem.


Thanks, now I understand what's happening here. I was having trouble just reading that sign (don't think I've seen one of these before) and if I had to learn in the middle of an intersection I would've been street paste.
 
2013-05-14 12:48:30 PM
Red light cameras . . . heh.

lib.store.yahoo.net
 
2013-05-14 12:50:15 PM
The bottom line is: If it was about safety, the yellows would last longer than 2.5 seconds "just because it's about safety", and also increase the time between the red and green change "because it's about safety". Anything after that and there is no question when you ran a red light.

And that means you're all thieves. (You know who you are.)
 
2013-05-14 12:52:42 PM

chewielouie: Red light cameras . . . heh.

[lib.store.yahoo.net image 550x550]


Good luck, (here anyway), they take a pic of the front (with driver), back and even video if you are going too fast to stop for the red.
 
2013-05-14 12:53:04 PM

Mugato: IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

You doubt the complexity in the mathematical operations of physics that determine where a dart lands on a board?

Well obviously smaller side roads have longer red lights if they are opposite highways but I just can't see that much thought going into it, especially if they're farking with the timing to create a 21st century version of the speed trap.

Weren't these farking things banned in some states?


In NJ, its really simple:  3 seconds of yellow for 25mph speed limit, plus .5 secs for each 5mph above that.  Passed by the state legislature in 2008.  Seems reasonable.  Of course, the red light camera companies seem to have trouble with it.
 
2013-05-14 12:53:19 PM
Can't decide between Obvious tag, and reapeat of every other place where ticket revenue was placed on a higher priority than human lives.
 
m00
2013-05-14 12:53:39 PM

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.


Taxes could be 80% and government would still claim its strapped for cash and needs to use ticketing to generate more revenue.

Taxes don't go to helping you and me. They go to lining pockets of politicians, lobbyists, and campaign contributors.
 
2013-05-14 12:55:29 PM

chewielouie: Red light cameras . . . heh.

[lib.store.yahoo.net image 550x550]


The fine for obscuring a license plate is worse then running a red light.

/you have not thought your smug all the way through.
//You have a bike. Ride it everywhere. Bikes are unregistered. You can run red lights all day on a bicycle and never get a red light camera ticket.
 
2013-05-14 12:56:29 PM

Solty Dog: If this is all about safety, which I'm sure it is, they should put another yellow in the middle there. That way drivers will have twice as long to contemplate the eternal question. Mash the gas or slam on the brakes.


much simpler solution, have a timer countdown how long the light will remain green.  There are some new pedestrian signs that do this for pedestrians walking parallel to the road which allows drivers to see the countdown as well.  I find this information very helpful in deciding if I will have enough time to make the "stale green light" or if I should start preparing to stop.

If I am 1/4 mile from the light and I see it has 20 secs left of green left, I can just plan on making it.  If it has 5 seconds left I will start to make decisions on if I can make the light or not and prepare to slow down or stop.  The more information drivers have, the better decisions they can make.
 
2013-05-14 12:56:42 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


[stmedia.startribune.com image 630x324]


What the hell is the point of the yellow arrow, when a green light on the straight lane means the exact same thing, except to confuse people?
 
2013-05-14 01:00:12 PM

fluffy2097: Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.


I can state from personal experience (driving in Europe) that roundabouts work very well, even for high-speed traffic when they're properly designed.  Specifically, they need to be BIG.  I've never seen a well-designed roundabout in the US.  Not one.
 
2013-05-14 01:01:07 PM
We need dynamic stop light systems.  Ones that analyze the traffic and adjust in real time, this would solve a lot of traffic issues.  This however costs money of course.  And would drastically reduce the income generated by red light cameras if there are fewer red lights.  So it will never happen.
 
2013-05-14 01:02:32 PM

Z-clipped: I can state from personal experience (driving in Europe) that roundabouts work very well, even for high-speed traffic when they're properly designed.  Specifically, they need to be BIG.  I've never seen a well-designed roundabout in the US.  Not one.


+1 for roundabouts!  I think the problem is, in America at least, nobody knows how they work.
 
2013-05-14 01:05:13 PM
They did this at the light at the corner of Grady Way and HWY 168 in Renton Washington. The city of Renton is run by scum.

If they aren't making money on red light cameras it's Jay Walking tickets at the transit center because people are trying to catch their bus. Jay Walking tickets for non-whites that is.


/White but still know it's wrong
 
2013-05-14 01:06:05 PM

ReverendJynxed: They did this at the light at the corner of Grady Way and HWY 168 167 in Renton Washington. The city of Renton is run by scum.

If they aren't making money on red light cameras it's Jay Walking tickets at the transit center because people are trying to catch their bus. Jay Walking tickets for non-whites that is.


/White but still know it's wrong


God damned typos.
 
2013-05-14 01:06:28 PM
There are a lot of bad things you can say about the Philippines but one thing they do right are the traffic signals.  They use a timer instead of circles so you know exactly when that light is going to turn red.
 
2013-05-14 01:08:19 PM

Mugato: IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

You doubt the complexity in the mathematical operations of physics that determine where a dart lands on a board?

Well obviously smaller side roads have longer red lights if they are opposite highways but I just can't see that much thought going into it, especially if they're farking with the timing to create a 21st century version of the speed trap.

Weren't these farking things banned in some states?


Here they aren't allowed to violate the privacy of folks so they give the car a parking ticket. Seriously, it is a non-moving violation (even though your car has to move to go through a red light) just so they can legally fine you.
 
2013-05-14 01:10:29 PM

Z-clipped: fluffy2097: Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.

I can state from personal experience (driving in Europe) that roundabouts work very well, even for high-speed traffic when they're properly designed.  Specifically, they need to be BIG.  I've never seen a well-designed roundabout in the US.  Not one.


The ones on Cape Cod aren't bad but Ive seen some horrific ones in NY and FL. The Cape Cod ones are pretty big and give ample room for people to maneuver. Its when the smaller ones have dedicated lanes that really screw things up.

I thought the light timing had changed here in FL but couldnt put my finger on what. Now I piss people off and stop at the yellow.

Jaywalking is a HUGE issue in FL and I cant fathom why. I have lived in 7 different states and never encountered the sheer number of people who waltz casually across a 5 lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 MPH.
 
2013-05-14 01:12:29 PM

Kimpak: We need dynamic stop light systems.


Many cities already have them.  That's what these are:

blog.trapster.com

Problem is, the act of getting into a car still turns most people into flaming self-centered assholes who blow red lights, block intersections, jump the green to turn left, text while driving, and fail to use their turn signals.
 
2013-05-14 01:18:50 PM
YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
 
2013-05-14 01:19:08 PM

sandi_fish: Good luck, (here anyway), they take a pic of the front (with driver), back and even video if you are going too fast to stop for the red.


20 states don't require a front plate.
 
2013-05-14 01:20:41 PM

knightmike: There are a lot of bad things you can say about the Philippines but one thing they do right are the traffic signals.  They use a timer instead of circles so you know exactly when that light is going to turn red.


This is hilarious to me, because I just lived in Visayas for a year, and never saw a single traffic light.  There was only ONE stop sign in the entire city where I lived, and no one paid it any attention.  It was all free-for-all 4-way intersections with basically no rules whatsoever.  The best part?... they totally made it work.  There was only one accident during the whole year I was there, and nobody got hurt. I know this because it made the local paper.

It really put into perspective for me the difference between a society of people that are willing to cooperate with each other, and say, the US, where no one is.
 
2013-05-14 01:24:12 PM
FLORIDA is behind!!!   Alabama's been doing that for years.  quite productively i might add.  sure beats having to tax the rich.  those folks just never get a break.

(course, it creates more crashes, but nothing is perfect, yer' know)


Freedom!!
 
2013-05-14 01:25:16 PM

labman: I've never heard of such a thing happening.  To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm



in the Greatest Country on Earth of all places!!
 
2013-05-14 01:26:12 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: labman: I've never heard of such a thing happening. To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm


But this is the government. They arn't motivated by petty things like profit.


the Government is an amature at stealing compared to Big Business, Banks, etc.
 
2013-05-14 01:27:13 PM

Twigz221: This is what happens when you keep cutting taxes and governments have to get creative to get revenue.



but our poor rich folks have to pay all the taxes!   (whimper whimper)
 
2013-05-14 01:28:21 PM

Tom_Slick: Same thing happened in Georgia, the city responsible had to refund thousands of tickets.



there is no bigger asshole than the American South.  they'll steal from you and give you a warm smile southern hospitality.
 
2013-05-14 01:29:22 PM

TanSau: we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.


We have that in Vancouver, B.C. and it's extremely useful. Almost all major intersections have them.

The "Prepare to Stop" lights will start to flash while the intersection is still Green. After maybe 5 or 10 seconds the Green will go to Yellow then Red. The flashers will keep flashing until the intersection is Green again.

The neat thing is that the Prepare to Stop sign is usually a fair distance away from the intersection or around a corner, so you have plenty of information heading into the intersection. You'll now know weather you should speed up for the green or begin to slow down.
 
2013-05-14 01:30:04 PM
 
2013-05-14 01:32:30 PM

Coastalgrl: Jaywalking is a HUGE issue in FL and I cant fathom why. I have lived in 7 different states and never encountered the sheer number of people who waltz casually across a 5 lane road with a posted speed limit of 45 MPH.


The easy explanation?
Law enforcement doesn't want to risk their lives busting people for doing this on those roads and there's no revenue from it. Jaywalking tickets don't even cover the cost of fielding an officer to write them. They're going after the speeders for their (non-existent wink wink nudge nudge) quotas for the month. If they are caught and stopped, its such a minor fine all it teaches people is not to get caught. They'll still cross without a cross-walk, they'll still go halfway across an intersection without a light, and they'll still cause traffic congestion.
 
2013-05-14 01:41:31 PM

legion_of_doo: jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?

*quietly*
slow down.


OK, I'm whispering this. What     does    a    yellow   light    mean.
 
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