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(WTSP)   DOT changed traffic signal timing rules to increase red light camera revenue   (wtsp.com) divider line 201
    More: Florida, red light cameras, florida, Florida Department of Transportation, National Motorists Association, direct payments, RLC, Florida Legislature, u.s. 19  
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10918 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 11:17 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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msP [TotalFark]
2013-05-14 11:55:13 AM
/obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.
 
2013-05-14 11:55:36 AM

Sczi: This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?




It is probably better for everyone if you don't ask too many questions about this.
 
2013-05-14 11:55:46 AM

Sczi: This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?


I wonder how soon til someone just decides to start charging a fee to go through a light. Double if you want to make a left.
 
2013-05-14 11:56:41 AM

mod3072: It sounds to me like this should increase the safety of those intersections by at least a factor of 10. Maybe instead of whining about a few little traffic tickets, you should be thankful for FDOT's steadfast dedication to making your lives safer.


Not sure if serious. Studies show lengthening the duration of yellow leads to fewer accidents.
 
2013-05-14 11:56:55 AM

jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?


*quietly*
slow down.
 
2013-05-14 11:56:55 AM

Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.


Maybe it's counting to 3 using a ridiculous algorithm that requires modular exponentiation and then transposed to binary, then to hexadecimal and divided by π ...

Still too easy?
 
2013-05-14 11:57:30 AM

Sczi: This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?


The payola goes directly to the town/city/county where these things are installed.  The companies that manage these things guarantee revenue from them, plus the local government doesn't pay for them.
 
2013-05-14 11:57:35 AM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: The Stealth Hippopotamus: labman: I've never heard of such a thing happening. To think people would be motivated to screw others out of their money.

/sarcasm


But this is the government. They arn't motivated by petty things like profit.
 The government has to pay for the services it provides, like your mental-health disability payments, your medicaid and so forth somehow. Since taxes are bad, it only makes sense we get revenue from people who can't be bothered to follow simple rules, like stopping at a red light.


Which breaks down when they are messing with the timing of light for the sole purpose of increasing revenue from people who didn't stop, because they changed the timing.
 
2013-05-14 11:58:04 AM

jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?


It's apparently the cue for my brother to yell "Goose it, Otis!"
 
2013-05-14 11:58:11 AM

ThatBillmanGuy: I wonder how soon til someone just decides to start charging a fee to go through a light. Double if you want to make a left.


Triple if you want to make that left immediately.
 
2013-05-14 11:59:40 AM
Bottom of the article Georgia  longer yellow light reduced 80 to 90 % of revenue for RDC .  Florida has 5 of the 12 oldest by age of residence cities they need a lot more time to react.  Delaying the onset of the green light  would increase safety  but they are not talking about that. It about revenue  not safety.
 
2013-05-14 12:00:22 PM

msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.


When that happens, let me know so I can move out of the country for a decade and then come back when America has figured them out.

They installed one near me on a tiny little street in the middle of nowhere. I drive through it every day. The stuff I've seen the elderly and timid do in that roundabout boggles the mind.
 
2013-05-14 12:01:11 PM

legion_of_doo: jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?

*quietly*
slow down.


W h a t  d o e s  t h e  y e l l l l o w  l i g h t  m e a n ???
 
2013-05-14 12:02:21 PM
Keep giving us, your government, more powers and liberties. We promise to keep you safe. Your safety comes first above any interests we may have.
 
2013-05-14 12:02:31 PM

jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?


Slow Down

/Yes, I get the Taxi reference :-)
 
2013-05-14 12:02:54 PM

Mugato: TanSau: we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.

Yeah, like they do with cross walks. How hard would that be?


I usually look for the cross walk countdowns when approaching an intersection as many intersections near me tend to have them. What's crazy is that I was in the Dominican Republic a few years ago and they had count downs on the traffic lights and I've never seen one in the US. Then again by turning RLCs into ATMs governments aren't economically motivated to spend money on something that's going to drive down ticket revenue.
 
2013-05-14 12:03:55 PM
I wonder how often the cameras have been shot by the locals.
 
2013-05-14 12:04:25 PM
Nobody picked up on the Bikini Bike Wash link on the bottom left side of the page?  Really Fark?  I am disappoint.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=313981
 
2013-05-14 12:04:53 PM

msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.


Up here they've started building roundabouts all over the place. The local TeaBagger/KKK (yes, they ARE the same people) are all up in arms about them, calling them a waste of valuable taxpayer money and a horrible manipulation of people's freedumbs and liberties to drive as they please. The County based the locations for the roundabouts on the number of collisions at various intersections around the County and City. The worst intersections get priority on new construction. One in particular had three or so serious collisions every week just due to the nature of the way the curve was changed to accommodate the freeway when it was built in the mid 1960s.

They work. Quite well. Collisions at those intersections are way down. That last one hasn't seen a major wreck in months.
 
2013-05-14 12:05:09 PM
A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.
 
2013-05-14 12:05:43 PM
While short yellows may cost you out of pocket before you adjust to them, LLLOOOOOONNNNGGGG yellows, like they have in this dusty town totally sap the life out of you.
There are no 'complex formulas' administered to these lights here.  They all just go to the default of 55 second green each direction and a painfully long 5 second yellow... no matter the traffic counts either way, the width of the road... fark that shiat, it's 55 seconds here.
 
2013-05-14 12:05:46 PM

Whistling Kitty Chaser: moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.

I don't know what all the independent variables are, but the dependent variable ends with a dollar sign.


The trouble is that all those dollars go to the hucksters at American Traffic Solutions and the politicians think they're actually getting a slice
 
2013-05-14 12:05:57 PM
Why bother with the yellow light at all?
Just set up a toll at all busy intersections.

/snark off
 
2013-05-14 12:07:34 PM

sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.


Really?

No way.
 
2013-05-14 12:07:56 PM

moothemagiccow: Mugato: Yellow light times are calculated by a complex formula

I kind of doubt that.

What are there, like, 4 or 5 variables? Width of intersection, number of lanes,  a journalist probably thinks that's complex.


http://www.copradar.com/redlight/rdrform/redtyfm.html
 
2013-05-14 12:08:26 PM

Mugato: TanSau: we need a yellow light count down.

That is all.

Yeah, like they do with cross walks. How hard would that be?


I'm sure the counter argument is that it would cause drivers to punch it when they see some minimum time come up. Except now there wouldn't be the guess work of "crap, is this a long yellow or a short yellow? Hell, I'm going too fast to stop at this point, time to gun it and pray!"
 
2013-05-14 12:08:27 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: eff the DOT


Since this is Florida:  effDOT...
 
2013-05-14 12:08:31 PM

legion_of_doo: just make everything around the Disney swamp into a toll road, and charge crazy expensive rates.

/ because they've not completely done that yet


They haven't? I suppose they could put tolls on I-4, but other than that, they've pretty much got everything covered.
 
2013-05-14 12:09:08 PM

msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.


Thanks, but no thanks.  They replaced two intersections around here with those crappy things, and low and behold, traffic got worse in the area instead of better, and the number of accidents went UP.

The biggest problem is that traffic on the road coming off the highway is just about constant, and as that traffic is going through with 'the right of way' as cars are going through the intersection constantly with no breaks in the traffic, the cars on the cross streets are stuck waiting for access to the road.

If roundabouts were the only intersection option back from when we started getting motorized vehicles, then yes, it would be better.  Since we did not, you have to retrain EVERYONE on how to drive through those crappy things.  I have watched people turn left on a roundabout, because they don't want to go right, they need to go on the road to the left, which is a shorter distance to go anyway.  Why go all the way around and waste that much more gas?

Stop lights, or even stop signs at a 4 way intersection.  That's the way to go.
 
2013-05-14 12:09:26 PM
"...every electronically generated violation is reviewed by a local police officer or sheriff's deputy before a citation is validated and sent to a driver. "

Tough day scrolling through all those crappy photos I bet.
...you just know it's gonna be the fattest cop on the force.
 
2013-05-14 12:10:32 PM

jrat454: legion_of_doo: jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?

*quietly*
slow down.

W h a t  d o e s  t h e  y e l l l l o w  l i g h t  m e a n ???


Slow.

Down.
 
2013-05-14 12:12:37 PM
The whole concept of red light cameras is BS.

If a cop didn't see it, it didn't happen.

I would refuse to pay such a ticket (and I'm sure it would all work out great for me).
 
2013-05-14 12:12:57 PM

Treygreen13: msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.

When that happens, let me know so I can move out of the country for a decade and then come back when America has figured them out.

They installed one near me on a tiny little street in the middle of nowhere. I drive through it every day. The stuff I've seen the elderly and timid do in that roundabout boggles the mind.


We have one in Houston. I had to teach my wife to drive at the age of 30 (don't ask, she just never learned apparently).

A short while into training, she became a bit cocky and thought she was ready for her driver's test (she wasn't), so I took her to the roundabout. I actually felt bad about it afterwards, she was so frazzled.

But I guess I did a good job, because she thanked me the other day out of the blue for teaching her to drive. She said the stuff I had her do has helped her avoid about three accidents now from other idiot motorists.

Sometimes I had her driving in a secluded spot and then I'd randomly yell out "child", "squirrel", "stop", "go", "do you want a fish sandwich?" or whatever else randomly came to mind -Now the new baby screaming or the dog suddenly yelping while she's driving has little effect on her.
 
2013-05-14 12:13:06 PM
Got my pocket picked by a RLC in Tallahassee. Scum!
 
2013-05-14 12:13:38 PM
Memphis could singlehandedly solve all budget problems for the state of Tennessee by putting up some red light cameras on union and poplar avenues. Well, if they could solve the problem of 50% of the cars having a cardboard "tag applied for" sign in the rear window.
 
2013-05-14 12:14:06 PM

jrat454: What does the yellow light mean?


"Slow Down"

"Whaaat Doooes thhhhe yellllow liiiight meeean?"

/used to love Taxi
 
2013-05-14 12:15:51 PM
When they put those red light cameras up, I choose to simply avoid those intersections if at all possible. Even if it means going a little out of my way.


dogboy360: Why bother with the yellow light at all?
Just set up a toll at all busy intersections.

/snark off



Toll at busy intersections? I got dinged for a non-payment of a toll on a road that to my knowledge has NO tolls on it. I paid it because I'd rather not fight over $3.50 - but don't be confused, they are doing it.
 
2013-05-14 12:18:23 PM
I'm shocked, shocked!
 
2013-05-14 12:18:47 PM

freeforever: Speaking of yellow, these things are turning up everywhere in Florida now, and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed when a driver doesn't realize you may have to stop at a yellow light.


Um...hasn't that always been the rule? If this is news to you then please stop driving.
 
2013-05-14 12:19:00 PM

tuna fingers: sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.

Really?

No way.


Way. I fought it, and it was reduced to $240.00 but still found guilty.  I don't know why they reduced the fine, but they did.
 
2013-05-14 12:19:44 PM
Citizens are fighting back:

link

Double tap one today!
 
2013-05-14 12:20:49 PM
As a civil engineer I find this very wrong.  The job of an engineer is to increase public safety.

If increasing the length of yellow lights caused fewer ran red lights then that is what needs to be done.  The state should get no kick back for cameras either.
 
2013-05-14 12:20:53 PM

msP: /obviously the best solution is use roundabouts wherever possibleTHIS! I say this all the time. In my completely unscientific opinion, I guesstimate that at least 90% of traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts.


Roundabouts were designed for horse and buggies, to allow them to not lose momentum while going through an intersection. They work great, until you get into high traffic levels (like we have today), then they just clog and become horribly dangerous.

Modern cars are perfectly fine with starting from a dead stop, and we have so much more traffic now, roundabouts probably wouldn't work.
 
2013-05-14 12:21:00 PM
They have yet to put these things in where I live (Bay County, Florida), but I imagine they will get around to it eventually. Since our local politicians are predictable, we figure that when they put them in they won't put them anywhere near the gated communities but every main feeder road from the rural areas to town will have one.

I know about five people who swear that if they ever put them in that they will be hunting speed cameras in the wee hours of the morning---and knowing the folks down here I'm sure that there are more where they came from. It will be interesting to see if it actually happens or if all that big talk is just hot air.
 
2013-05-14 12:22:12 PM

Deathfrogg: calling them a waste of valuable taxpayer money and a horrible manipulation of people's freedumbs and liberties to drive as they please.


That's funny, a roundabout removes a government sign forcing you to stop and instead allows you to participate in the free market of traffic flow with your fellow citizens. You'd think they'd be all over that like white on rice.
 
2013-05-14 12:22:20 PM

sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.


My brother just got one there. Anybody fighting and winning?
 
2013-05-14 12:24:13 PM

fluffy2097: Roundabouts were designed for horse and buggies, to allow them to not lose momentum while going through an intersection. They work great, until you get into high traffic levels (like we have today), then they just clog and become horribly dangerous.


They're not removing all controlled intersections.
 
2013-05-14 12:24:15 PM

Tom_Slick: Sczi: This crap's getting real tiresome. I wonder if anybody in authority is getting actual payola style kickbacks for allowing these things to go in? I'd just about bet money on it. Personally, I'd like a thorough investigation. Some DOT guy physically typed those new numbers into the computer or turned the dial or however it works to shorten those lights. Who told them to do that, and why?

The payola goes directly to the town/city/county where these things are installed.  The companies that manage these things guarantee revenue from them, plus the local government doesn't pay for them.


Yeah but the govt splits the proceeds with the private company. While elected officials would probably like better budgets, they'll still have a job without it. What they really want is more pocket money, so I'm wondering if these private companies aren't literally bribing elected officials. If some mayor or whatever spent late nights with the bean counters and tried everything to balance the budget and hesitantly allowed this, then that sucks, but at least they're not evil. If some mf'er is getting a cash kickback, I'd like to personally slit his/her belly open and poop in the wound.
 
2013-05-14 12:25:17 PM

studs up: sandi_fish: A (first time) red light ticket here in Ventura, CA is $480.00.  What utter crap.

My brother just got one there. Anybody fighting and winning?


Nope. The yellow lights in California are set correctly.

/Your "brother" just sailed right through that red light.
//Or he's one of those "I can take a right on red without stopping" retards.
///Driven from Mendicino to LA, and everywhere all over the bay. Never seen someone get flashed by a red light cam that didn't completely and utterly deserve it in CA.
 
2013-05-14 12:26:44 PM

theorellior: ThatBillmanGuy: I wonder how soon til someone just decides to start charging a fee to go through a light. Double if you want to make a left.

Triple if you want to make that left immediately.


Ooooh, sell a sunpass to rich people with a button that turns lights green at 100$ a pop. Buffy dear, let's go take a 10k$ ride through town and piss off the poors!
 
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