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(Talking Points Memo)   Headline: "Pediatricians go to battle against gun lobby." Subby hopes they don't bring knives   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 149
    More: Interesting, gun rights, child advocacy, pediatricians, knife, Case Western Reserve University  
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2060 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-14 09:35:31 AM
They'll just lose again, though it is nice to see the AAP finally, grudgingly admit that the Second Amendment does protect individual ownership.  For years after the Heller decision, their website claimed that the Second Amendment only applied to the National Guard.
 
2013-05-14 10:14:32 AM
Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?
 
2013-05-14 10:16:00 AM
Million things more dangerous to kids that they never seem to care about.
 
2013-05-14 10:17:34 AM
I've got two kids. I think I've been to the pediatrician more than my fair share of times. I've never seen a gun-shot victim there, or even heard the doctor or his assistants talking about one. I'd hardly think they're experts on gun violence.
 
2013-05-14 10:19:54 AM
They'll bring Lego guns

/pew pew pew
 
2013-05-14 10:19:56 AM
How many kids have been killed by an "assault weapon" since the "assault weapon" has been invented?

These doctors aren't seeing what assault weapons and high capacity magazines do to children......they are just political pawns regurgitating Diane Feinsteins and Obamas anti gun ideology.
 
2013-05-14 10:20:02 AM

Thunderpipes: Million things more dangerous to kids that they never seem to care about.


Like?  I suspect you actually have no idea what the AAP does.
 
2013-05-14 10:21:19 AM

skrame: I've got two kids. I think I've been to the pediatrician more than my fair share of times. I've never seen a gun-shot victim there, or even heard the doctor or his assistants talking about one. I'd hardly think they're experts on gun violence.


But they are authority figures that people listen to without questioning their opinion.

Thats why they are being used in the campaign against the second amendment.
 
2013-05-14 10:22:25 AM
 
2013-05-14 10:24:06 AM
They should look into kids killed by "Preventable Medical Errors".
 
2013-05-14 10:25:37 AM

Nightsweat: Thunderpipes: Million things more dangerous to kids that they never seem to care about.

Like?  I suspect you actually have no idea what the AAP does.



Shill for the gun grabbers?

Gun violence is the first tab under their federal policies folder.

Nutrition (the lack of which kills more children than firearms does) is all the way at the bottom.
 
2013-05-14 10:25:41 AM

HandsUp: They should look into kids killed by "Preventable Medical Errors".


They do - http://www2.aap.org/saferhealthcare/resources_01.html
 
2013-05-14 10:26:48 AM
Going to an antigun pediatrician on advise for gun safety is like going to a Catholic priest for tips on how to be a better lover in bed.

The NRA has more than a century of expertise in teaching youths gun safety and how to keep from gun accidents. How about we take the advice of experts?
 
2013-05-14 10:27:46 AM

Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.


Most of those deaths should be handled by OSHA. I mean most of the kids who are dying due to firearms are selling drugs or in gangs. It is an occupational hazard.
 
2013-05-14 10:27:59 AM

Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.


I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.
 
2013-05-14 10:29:01 AM
IF ONLY WE LICENSED ILLEGAL GUN OWNERS BEFORE THEY DID ILLEGAL THINGS WITH THEIR ILLEGAL GUNS.

BE AFRAID! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!


FEAR FOR YOUR CHILDREN!

BE AFRAID! BE AFRAID! WE CAN'T CONTROL YOU WHEN YOU AREN'T AFRAID!

Oh, wait you are safer in America today, in respect to every single kind of violence that exists, then you were 40 years ago.

But telling people they are safe doesn't drive page views.

In fact, the only thing that's become more dangerous is Farmers Markets.

www.jewishjournal.com

/ban assault automobiles.
//People kill dozens of people at once with them all the time.
 
2013-05-14 10:29:59 AM
List of People Conspiring Against the GOP, and therefore, America
(LOPCATGOPATA for short):

Liberals
Democrats
Socialists
Community Organizers
Geologists
Biologists
Meteorologists
Climatologists
Atheists
Muslims
Jews
Satan
ABC
NBC
CNN
CBS
PBS
All of cable news except FNC
The New York Times
The LA Times
The Washington Post
The Associated Press
Reuters
BBC
The Guardian
Black People
Mexicans
Human Rights Activists
SCOTUS
Europe
Movie Industry
Television Industry
Environmentalists
ACLU
The United Nations
Labor Unions
Colleges
Teachers (including kindergarten teachers)
Professors
ACORN
National Endowment for the Arts
Gays
Judges
NPR
Paleontologists
Astrophysicists
Museums (*except Creationism Museum)
WHO
WTO
Inflated tires
The Honolulu Advertiser
The Star Bulletin
Teletubbies
Sponge Bob and Patrick
Nobel Prize Committee
US Census Bureau
NOAA
Sesame Street
Comic Books
Little Green Footballs
Video Games
The Bible
CBO
Bruce Springsteen
Pennies
The Theory of Relativity
Comedy Central
Young People
whatever the hell a Justin Beiber is
Small Business Owners
Math
CPAC
Navy SEALs
The Economist
The Muppets
Iowa Republicans
Low-Flow Toilets
Breast Cancer Screenings
Chrysler
Clint Eastwood.
Robert Deniro
Tom Hanks
Glenn Frey
Norman Rockwell
James Cameron
Dr. Seus
Nuns
Supreme Court Justice John Roberts
Jonathan Krohn at age 17
Fact Checkers
Australia
Mitt Romney
Rasmussen
Fox News
Lockheed Martin
Bureau of Labor Statistics
Paul Ryan
Debate moderators
Soup kitchens
Hurricanes
Chris Christie
NERDS
American Academy of Pediatrics
 
2013-05-14 10:29:59 AM

Giltric: Nightsweat: Thunderpipes: Million things more dangerous to kids that they never seem to care about.

Like?  I suspect you actually have no idea what the AAP does.


Shill for the gun grabbers?

Gun violence is the first tab under their federal policies folder.

Nutrition (the lack of which kills more children than firearms does) is all the way at the bottom.


Shill for the gun manufacturers?  Note the other link - gun violence is one of the top three causes of death in American youth. And the AAP is constantly in the faces of food manufacturers, advertisers and parents on nutrition.  The AAP is one of the few remaining groups of actually good people.  When you go through medical school to become a doctor, you pretty much halve your income when you choose to be a pediatrician instead of an adult doctor. And yet, you still see plenty of Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, and Yale grads among the ranks of the pediatricians.  These are the docs who actually give a shiat.
 
2013-05-14 10:30:30 AM

ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.


They are probably using that debunked bad science Kellerman study about guns in homes.
 
2013-05-14 10:31:43 AM

Nightsweat: Shill for the gun manufacturers? Note the other link - gun violence is one of the top three causes of death in American youth.


Bullshiat.

I have a website and it says that blue waffle disease is the leading cause of dead children. That, shiat music, and being a special snowflake.
 
2013-05-14 10:34:39 AM

Nightsweat: Note the other link - gun violence is one of the top three causes of death in American youth


The only link I could find is from the CDC...and "youth" counts as 10-24 on their chart.

Prime OG crips and bloods gangbanger age.
 
2013-05-14 10:35:05 AM

Nightsweat: Giltric: Nightsweat: Thunderpipes: Million things more dangerous to kids that they never seem to care about.

Like?  I suspect you actually have no idea what the AAP does.


Shill for the gun grabbers?

Gun violence is the first tab under their federal policies folder.

Nutrition (the lack of which kills more children than firearms does) is all the way at the bottom.

Shill for the gun manufacturers?  Note the other link - gun violence is one of the top three causes of death in American youth. And the AAP is constantly in the faces of food manufacturers, advertisers and parents on nutrition.  The AAP is one of the few remaining groups of actually good people.  When you go through medical school to become a doctor, you pretty much halve your income when you choose to be a pediatrician instead of an adult doctor. And yet, you still see plenty of Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, and Yale grads among the ranks of the pediatricians.  These are the docs who actually give a shiat.


According to the CDC stats that I've found, they group 15-24 as an age range, so it's difficult to say whether or not they're correct in the assertion about top three causes.  Second point to that would be removing drug/gang-related violence from the list.  No proposal out there even touches this (which, honestly, is hugely problematic.  That's the majority of the homicides that occur and registration, background checks, restrictions, and everything else fails here.  It's already illegal for them to engage in the behavior that they're doing, yet it doesn't stop them).
 
2013-05-14 10:35:26 AM
I haven't had much time to look at the stats but I did see that a "child" is age 0-19. I don't really consider 16 - 19 children much less 18 and 19 year olds. I doubt there is a breakdown of guns deaths of millitary and/or those shot and killed by police.
 
2013-05-14 10:36:02 AM

fluffy2097: Nightsweat: Shill for the gun manufacturers? Note the other link - gun violence is one of the top three causes of death in American youth.

Bullshiat.

I have a website and it says that blue waffle disease is the leading cause of dead children. That, shiat music, and being a special snowflake.


I don't need to hear about your mother's killing spree.
 
2013-05-14 10:36:19 AM

No Time To Explain: They'll bring Lego guns

/pew pew pew


Actually, you could build a gun mostly from LEGOs.   Only metal parts would be the barrel and the nipple (as always, I'm envisioning some sort of muzzleloader), and you can get those at the local plumbing supply place. In a pinch, you can probably delete the nipple and just use paper caps taped over a touch-hole.  Spring power would be provided by rubber bands.

You'd probably want to glue the non-moving LEGO parts together, though, so it doesn't fall apart when you shoot it.
 
2013-05-14 10:36:35 AM

Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science Kellerman study about guns in homes.


Probably. They're not statisticians either. The arguments from that study are pretty ridiculous when you get past the surface.

"Omg! Having a gun in your home makes you more likely to die by someone else shooting you! Get rid of your gun to be safer!"
 
2013-05-14 10:36:44 AM
subby, instead of "knives", "scissors" would have been more rage inducing.
 
2013-05-14 10:37:05 AM

HandsUp: I haven't had much time to look at the stats but I did see that a "child" is age 0-19. I don't really consider 16 - 19 children much less 18 and 19 year olds. I doubt there is a breakdown of guns deaths of millitary and/or those shot and killed by police.


I think Obamacare sets the  range for child as 0- 26 now.
 
2013-05-14 10:38:22 AM

Mrbogey: Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science Kellerman study about guns in homes.

Probably. They're not statisticians either. The arguments from that study are pretty ridiculous when you get past the surface.

"Omg! Having a gun in your home makes you more likely to die by someone else shooting you! Get rid of your gun to be safer!"


The study probably counts the gun that the murderer broke into your home to kill you with as being a gun in your home.
 
2013-05-14 10:39:56 AM

Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science

well supported Kellerman study about guns in homes.

/FTFY
//not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry
 
2013-05-14 10:41:20 AM

Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science Kellerman study about guns in homes.


Check for yourself - I didn't see that name there.  Mostly CDC info. - http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/10/15/peds.2 0 12-2481.full.pdf e1422 is the list of sources.
 
2013-05-14 10:42:26 AM

HandsUp: They should look into kids killed by "Preventable Medical Errors".


...of course, most such errors are "preventable" by using more procedures, which cost more money.

Here, then, is where I would like to see a cost-benefit analysis: The benefits of giving slightly more expensive procedures to everyone, versus the quicker and cheaper method, which would cause, say, 10-20% more misdiagnoses than the thorough-but-expensive method, some of which could cost more than the cost of being more thorough...up to and including death.
 
2013-05-14 10:43:53 AM

Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.


Why are firearm-related deaths somehow more important than other violent deaths? As if taking away the tool will somehow cure the underlying problem. It's like arguing the problem with ax murders is their easy access to axes, not the fact that they want to kill someone.
 
2013-05-14 10:45:41 AM

IlGreven: HandsUp: They should look into kids killed by "Preventable Medical Errors".

...of course, most such errors are "preventable" by using more procedures, which cost more money.

Here, then, is where I would like to see a cost-benefit analysis: The benefits of giving slightly more expensive procedures to everyone, versus the quicker and cheaper method, which would cause, say, 10-20% more misdiagnoses than the thorough-but-expensive method, some of which could cost more than the cost of being more thorough...up to and including death.


They cut medical errors quite a bit in some places by conducting training and enforcement over such things as having every doctor and nurse use the same abbreviations and codes, and making sure that the codes aren't too similar so they could be confused. Also, simple stuff like writing on the leg or arm that needs to be operated on.  Some of that came through independent groups and councils and some through the AAP.  It's simple but clever stuff.
 
2013-05-14 10:46:48 AM

Giltric: skrame: I've got two kids. I think I've been to the pediatrician more than my fair share of times. I've never seen a gun-shot victim there, or even heard the doctor or his assistants talking about one. I'd hardly think they're experts on gun violence.

But they are authority figures that people listen to without questioning their opinion.

Thats why they are being used in the campaign against the second amendment.


Damn Pediatric Militias
 
2013-05-14 10:48:18 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

Why are firearm-related deaths somehow more important than other violent deaths? As if taking away the tool will somehow cure the underlying problem. It's like arguing the problem with ax murders is their easy access to axes, not the fact that they want to kill someone.


Why are they less important.  The AAP works on getting car safety seats used properly, why should they ignore firearm deaths?  Because you like to have a few beers on the weekend and shoot up rural Stop signs?
 
2013-05-14 10:48:39 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Why are firearm-related deaths somehow more important than other violent deaths? As if taking away the tool will somehow cure the underlying problem. It's like arguing the problem with ax murders is their easy access to axes, not the fact that they want to kill someone.


IF YOU GET RID OF THE GUNS NOBODY CAN SHOOT ANYONE AND THEN THERE WOULD BE NO VIOLENCE EVER.

WHAARRRRRRRGARBL!
 
2013-05-14 10:49:05 AM

OrangeSnapper: Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science well supported Kellerman study about guns in homes.

/FTFY
//not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry


It's on the same level as studies that suggest smokers have a higher rate of cancer to non-smokers, alcoholics have a higher risk of liver problems and/or drunk driving than non-drinkers, and mechanics have a higher chance of getting grease under their nails than non-mechanics.

That's not shilling for the gun industry, that's pointing out that the statement is a blatantly obvious one, published in a "Study" in such a way that people who don't get basic concepts like "being around X increases your chance of interactions with X" logic.

Now, me, I like guns. I like shooting them. I like owning them. I may have a higher risk of being hurt by them than if I didn't own them. But, such is life, and I could care less, since I've got a whole assortment of risk factors for injury in my home.
 
2013-05-14 10:49:53 AM

OrangeSnapper: Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science well supported Kellerman study about guns in homes.

/FTFY
//not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry



Kellermans faulty study was one of the reasons they voted to suspend federal funding of gun violence studies.

he counted rival gang members as aquaintances or friends for his study to show that you are killed by someone you know.

Go wiki it. They even provide citations and it would save me the trouble.

I don't even think Kellerman stands behind his study anymore.
 
2013-05-14 10:50:33 AM

OrangeSnapper: //not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry


Also, considering that gun manufacturers the world over do just fine selling to militias, cartels, and Militaries, it seems to me that the gun industry in the US exists at the levels it does because people want to own guns, rather than something being pushed on them. Just like a market exists for SUVs because people want to own them.

Amazingly, when there's demand, someone steps in and fills it.
 
2013-05-14 10:51:16 AM

Giltric: OrangeSnapper: Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science well supported Kellerman study about guns in homes.

/FTFY
//not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry


Kellermans faulty study was one of the reasons they voted to suspend federal funding of gun violence studies.

he counted rival gang members as aquaintances or friends for his study to show that you are killed by someone you know.

Go wiki it. They even provide citations and it would save me the trouble.

I don't even think Kellerman stands behind his study anymore.


This.
 
2013-05-14 10:51:29 AM

Bravo Two: OrangeSnapper: //not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry

Also, considering that gun manufacturers the world over do just fine selling to militias, cartels, and Militaries, it seems to me that the gun industry in the US exists at the levels it does because people want to own guns, rather than something being pushed on them. Just like a market exists for SUVs because people want to own them.

Amazingly, when there's demand, someone steps in and fills it.


* note, does not apparently apply to Australia.
 
2013-05-14 10:52:48 AM
Oh I forgot they teach 2nd Amendment studies at medical school now.
 
2013-05-14 10:53:33 AM

Nightsweat: Giltric: ronaprhys: Nightsweat: haws83: Why don't they go after something statistically significant like obesity or something?

While the rate of firearm-related deaths has declined over the past two decades, it is still one of the top three causes of death in American youth, far exceeding the rates in other high-income countries.

I'm looking for proof of that from another source.  Not sure I trust them.

They are probably using that debunked bad science Kellerman study about guns in homes.

Check for yourself - I didn't see that name there.  Mostly CDC info. - http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/10/15/peds.2 0 12-2481.full.pdf e1422 is the list of sources.


again....they do not distinguish between active gang members in the 0-19 yo range killing each other or a group of white thugs invading the home of a black child and murdering him.

Most of the gun violence deaths are from one of those groups ...you have a 50/50 chance of picking the right group.
 
2013-05-14 10:55:36 AM

Nightsweat: IlGreven: HandsUp: They should look into kids killed by "Preventable Medical Errors".

...of course, most such errors are "preventable" by using more procedures, which cost more money.

Here, then, is where I would like to see a cost-benefit analysis: The benefits of giving slightly more expensive procedures to everyone, versus the quicker and cheaper method, which would cause, say, 10-20% more misdiagnoses than the thorough-but-expensive method, some of which could cost more than the cost of being more thorough...up to and including death.

They cut medical errors quite a bit in some places by conducting training and enforcement over such things as having every doctor and nurse use the same abbreviations and codes, and making sure that the codes aren't too similar so they could be confused. Also, simple stuff like writing on the leg or arm that needs to be operated on.  Some of that came through independent groups and councils and some through the AAP.  It's simple but clever stuff.


Actually, the link that I gave separates wrong body-part surgery and errors in drug prescriptions from misdiagnoses. That's the big thing right now: Everyone running on a misdiagnosis because patients don't get a second opinon, or doctors don't get that simple but uncommon procedure that would rule their misdiagnosis out, often because the patient can't pay for it, or the doctors stress that time is of the essence in beating the diagnosis that actually isn't.
 
2013-05-14 10:56:37 AM
www.cdc.gov
Firearm homicide is the 2nd leading cause of violent death amongst those aged 15-24, right behind car accidents.
 
2013-05-14 10:56:49 AM
If the object of the fight is to kill as many kids as possible, I'm bringing a swimming pool.
 
2013-05-14 10:58:30 AM

Nightsweat: Bravo Two: OrangeSnapper: //not sure if trolling, or just shilling for the gun industry

Also, considering that gun manufacturers the world over do just fine selling to militias, cartels, and Militaries, it seems to me that the gun industry in the US exists at the levels it does because people want to own guns, rather than something being pushed on them. Just like a market exists for SUVs because people want to own them.

Amazingly, when there's demand, someone steps in and fills it.

* note, does not apparently apply to Australia.


Uhm, okay. Australia allows, albeit highly restricts gun ownership. I fail to see how that applies at all to my point. People in the US love to hunt, shoot, and own guns. That's not going away no matter how much you wish otherwise.  Sane gun owners keep pushing what we would find acceptable to try an dsolve the problem with regards to preventing the wrong people from having guns, but since the whole concept of gun ownership is so offensive to some, that'll never help.

Besides, there are myriad other changes that would also further reduce gun violence that didn't involve the types of restrictions Australia enacted, but no one wants to consider/pay for those, either.

So, until you get over yourselves and are willing to look at other approaches that don't involve you deciding that my civil liberties are less important than your right to keep screwing over the poor, mentally ill, and minority communities, then I guess there's nothing else to discuss and the battle is on.
 
2013-05-14 10:58:56 AM

freetomato: List of People Conspiring Against the GOP, and therefore, America
(LOPCATGOPATA for short):


The GOP

///FTFY
 
2013-05-14 10:59:13 AM

Giltric: group of white thugs invading the home of a black child and murdering him


This happens a lot in your town?
 
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