If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC)   Like Germany, Japanese history books insist that the country took 1931 and 1945 off. They were on vacation in Korea. Punch was served. Check with Korea   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 267
    More: Obvious, Japan Ground Self-Defense Force, Japanese, Sacred Heart, history, Nanjing  
•       •       •

11200 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2013 at 3:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



267 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-05-13 09:52:28 PM
 
2013-05-13 10:05:08 PM
"Your mother swam out to meet the Japanese" was our favorite insult to hurl while drunk in Korea. It went over well.
 
2013-05-13 10:48:44 PM
I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.
 
2013-05-13 10:58:06 PM

NewportBarGuy: I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.


I WILL HEAR NO MORE INSINUATIONS ABOUT THE JAPANESE PEOPLE!! NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!! SIE WERDEN SICH HINSETZEN, SIE WERDEN RUHIG SEIN, SIE WERDEN NICHT BELEIDIGEN DEUTSCHLAND!!!
 
2013-05-13 11:02:34 PM
Those who fail to learn from history...
 
2013-05-13 11:39:50 PM

NewportBarGuy: I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.


Or China. Or Taiwan. Or the Philippines.

Or really any of their neighbors.
 
2013-05-13 11:48:29 PM

Shostie: NewportBarGuy: I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.

Or China. Or Taiwan. Or the Philippines.

Or really any of their neighbors.


You know, there's a lot of Japanese students who study in the US, be it college or grad school.  Wonder how they handle the US "version" of history.  Like the author said, Australia has a bit of a more...  Accurate view on history then the Japanese.
 
2013-05-13 11:50:25 PM
I spent 3 years living in China and hitting Japan twice a year for business.   The Chinese do not like the Japanese.  The Japanese, as the article notes, don't necessarily understand why the rest of Asia can't stand them.  Japan is still a very insular society, even more so than China.  It's odd if you think about it, because Japan got a 50 year head start on economic openness with the rest of the world.
 
2013-05-13 11:58:31 PM
I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.
 
2013-05-14 12:01:12 AM

Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.


To the point of paranoia.
 
2013-05-14 12:05:03 AM

Mentat: Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.

To the point of paranoia.


Would you want the French biatching at you?
 
2013-05-14 12:06:50 AM
They said rape 3,894,972 times. I think they may like rape.
 
2013-05-14 12:09:34 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mentat: Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.

To the point of paranoia.

Would you want the French biatching at you?


The French have been biatching at Germans for thousands of years.
 
2013-05-14 12:11:12 AM

Satanic_Hamster: NewportBarGuy: I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.

I WILL HEAR NO MORE INSINUATIONS ABOUT THE JAPANESE PEOPLE!! NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!! SIE WERDEN SICH HINSETZEN, SIE WERDEN RUHIG SEIN, SIE WERDEN NICHT BELEIDIGEN DEUTSCHLAND!!!


Why would the Japanese yell in German?
 
2013-05-14 12:16:21 AM

Mentat: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mentat: Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.

To the point of paranoia.

Would you want the French biatching at you?

The French have been biatching at Germans for thousands of years.


Ok... good point
 
2013-05-14 12:25:53 AM

doglover: Satanic_Hamster: NewportBarGuy: I'm PRETTY sure you really don't want to check with Korea. Either of them.

I WILL HEAR NO MORE INSINUATIONS ABOUT THE JAPANESE PEOPLE!! NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!! SIE WERDEN SICH HINSETZEN, SIE WERDEN RUHIG SEIN, SIE WERDEN NICHT BELEIDIGEN DEUTSCHLAND!!!

Why would the Japanese yell in German?


To confuse the Koreans, obviously.
 
2013-05-14 12:28:44 AM
Is this before or after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
 
2013-05-14 12:49:01 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Those who fail to learn from history...


...were shocked during the final scene of Lincoln?
 
2013-05-14 12:52:17 AM

miss diminutive: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Those who fail to learn from history...

...were shocked during the final scene of Lincoln?


Wait... does he DIE?

/crap... he dies, doesn't he? dammit
//I have the DVD in my queue on Netflix
///spoiler
 
2013-05-14 12:52:36 AM
The Germans obsess over World War II and fascism to the point of being leery of nationalism.

/probably for the best
//somewhat scared of a German version of http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyfjp3_simpsons-return-of-the-soviet - union_fun

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-14 01:17:43 AM

Satanic_Hamster: You know, there's a lot of Japanese students who study in the US, be it college or grad school. Wonder how they handle the US "version" of history. Like the author said, Australia has a bit of a more... Accurate view on history then the Japanese.


Some are shocked, and don't want to believe it. Others get all "preachy" about it and swear they're going to open eyes when they get back to Japan and spend all their time in the US making sure every other Japanese person they meet knows about it.  Others just take it in and move on.

I'm sure with the Internet so prevalent more young kids know about it now.  My old (2001) Japanese girlfriend was one who hadn't heard about it when she first came to America, and had a hard time believing it at first.  It was one of the reasons she cited for not wanting to move back to Japan.
 
2013-05-14 02:32:34 AM
I still have family in Japan. Quite a lot actually, and WWII is a hard on to talk about. Mind you, it's hard not just because of the Rape of Nanking. Or the assassination of the Empress of Korea by Yakuza of all folks, or the drug trade that they purposefully fostered to weaken their neighbors. Or even the kamikaze attacks and the Emperor worship.

It's hard, because I had family on both sides during that war. Family who were Issei, and Nisei. Who had come to America's shores, and all of my uncles who fought on the American side were killed. The branch of the family that came over here lost everything thanks to the Internment, as their neighbors happily looted their property while they were gone. While some of it was covered in reparations, by that time, they packed it all up and moved back to Japan. Said, screw this sh*t, we'll go home since by that time, America had sort of a foul taste, and Europe was where their sons went to die.

On the side that was in Japan...the war was less than kind to them as well. I had family in Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. I had family who lost most of their sons thanks to the war in the Pacific. I am, not only the last son of my father's line, I am the only male child from my mother's as well. The war effectively ended my family's name, at least in our line.

It isn't real easy to talk about such things over tea and mochi. The family who left, and then returned, they were pretty much disowned already. The branches don't really talk much. My mother's family, they were already persona non grata because they took off for Okinawa, and worse, my grandmother married an American. Of course, my grandfather was a deserter who had a "colorful" past that got him a reprieve from being hauled back to the States in irons by the MacArthur's folks, and he couldn't ever come back to the States. Then my mother married a GI, and things got even dicier, because the family who had been Americans, they didn't want anything to do with the States, and her marrying an American was sort of a slap in their faces. Then there were the branches who managed to survive after the bombing, and yeah, my hafu tochis isn't ever going to have a bright welcome in the land of the Rising Sun.

Folks in Japan know the war happened. They are more than aware of their own involvement in a lot of really sh*tty things that happened in years leading up to WWII. They don't like to talk about it with outsiders though. Any more than Germans like to discuss how they could have Dachau less than 20km from Munich and NOT know what was going on there.

The concept of face is still important in Japan. In America, it is something we're picking up from them and are quietly adopting--ours is not a smooth transition, and to be honest, if our politicians stepped down as quickly as the Japanese do when scandal hits, it might improve things. It doesn't exactly prevent scandals, because shame based societies handle things a bit differently, and our transition towards a more shame based society has a lot to do with less ostracism and public censure, as much as it has to do with presenting a reputation, and vociferously and loudly defending it. Even as we transition further into a shame based culture, we still like to fall back on the concept of "responsibility" and ours is not a smooth transition, because we don't have several hundred or even a thousand years of society to look back upon as our guides in this.  But in Japan, appearances and public manners matter, and there are things you simply don't talk about in polite company. And shaming your elders, is a big one. And at this point, there are a lot of elders who were involved in some very hinky things, and the society charged down a road for glory and "honor" and instead reaped defeat borne out of hubris. It's a hard pill to swallow.

When dealing with a shameful subject, it is preferable to feign ignorance. It is an easy dodge. "I didn't know about 'comfort women' so you can't blame me." Or, "I wasn't aware that the Yakuza assassinated the Empress of Korea, and I guess I'll have to look into that before I can give you an answer on how we deal with this issue." Sort of like how American politicians sudden develop an acute case of "I was not aware of that" when folks start to talk about their offices taking bribes or their head of staff paying prostitutes with campaign money. It's a social dodge. It is very much in effect in Asia, and not terribly surprising.

My own family...they just avoid the subject entirely. My mother's side of the family effectively doesn't exist. They just lost touch. Things were crazy after the war, and they just got busy after. Same with the family who came back to Japan--they just don't talk about what brought them back, or what made them leave Japan in the first place. I have cousins who aren't even aware that their family had ever left. They are thoroughly acculturated, and that their grandparents were Nisei who came back just isn't even talked about. They don't really have a lot of contact with the family who stayed either. Avoidance of uncomfortable topics is how the Japanese deal with a lot of things. It is their way.

Not saying it's terrible healthy, but that's how my mother's people roll.
 
2013-05-14 04:00:27 AM
Japanese American people often fail to understand why neighbouring Middle Eastern countries harbour a grudge over events that happened in the 1930s and 40s. The reason, in many cases, is that they barely learned any 20th Century history. I myself only got a full picture when I left Japan high school and went to school in Australia. college.

Rinse. Repeat. Replace.
 
2013-05-14 04:03:13 AM

hubiestubert: Avoidance of uncomfortable topics is how the Japanese deal with a lot of things.


A lot. Funny way to spell all.

Well, unless you count alcohol as "dealing with"
 
2013-05-14 04:04:23 AM
Oh well. History class in the US doesn't talk about the wars we lost. The War of 1812 is just a footnote in most text books, Korea and Vietnam are lumped together in the same week.
 
2013-05-14 04:06:06 AM

hubiestubert: When dealing with a shameful subject, it is preferable to feign ignorance. It is an easy dodge. "I didn't know about 'comfort women' so you can't blame me." Or, "I wasn't aware that the Yakuza assassinated the Empress of Korea, and I guess I'll have to look into that before I can give you an answer on how we deal with this issue." Sort of like how American politicians sudden develop an acute case of "I was not aware of that" when folks start to talk about their offices taking bribes or their head of staff paying prostitutes with campaign money. It's a social dodge. It is very much in effect in Asia, and not terribly surprising.


I've never understood--or perhaps I do--this particular dodge. "I didn't know about X, I'll have to get back to you." Really? Howabout NOW? Whether it's a Japanese individual who wasn't aware of his country's shameful history in Korea, or my own mother's ignorance of the internment camps when she was a little girl--why do they have to "get back to you"? Who do they need to check with?

In my mom's case, she was a toddler in WWII, and growing up, her history books never mentioned the internment camps--she discovered they existed when I was in middle school and we studied "Farewell to Manzanar". Lucky for me, my mom encourages learning about stuff that's uncomfortable. I know far too many people my own age that if you say "Manzanar" will look at you like you said "sfovuahv"?

Both the Japanese occupation and America's shameful behavior are explicable, though hardly excusable; but to ignore them is to ensure they happen again. And yet everyone on both sides of the Pacific Rim seem to want that. Sad, really.
 
2013-05-14 04:07:31 AM
School textbooks are notorious for sugar coating history, in any country.

Christopher Columbus: Hero
Thomas Jefferson: Hero
Pearl Harbor: Innocent USA wakes up to find the war-like Japanese bombing its fleet for no reason
World War II: America saves the world
America: Freedom! Yeah!

History, as it is taught in every country, is a means to foster a sense of cultural belonging and shared past. Whatever doesn't fit gets cut or significantly reduced.

What are you really expecting a textbook to say about Nanking? A 5 page editorial about the evils of the Japanese military? In what other country, except maybe Germany, would something like that be pondered over so deeply?
 
2013-05-14 04:11:38 AM
The only thing that isn't eventually forgotten after a war is the medical data resulting from the crimes against humanity committed by the scientists, who of course get pardons and sometimes new jobs.
 
2013-05-14 04:13:18 AM
My favorite comment about the war when I lived in Japan was that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour in retaliation for the nuclear attacks by the US.
 
2013-05-14 04:14:55 AM
History isn't just written by the victors.  The losers also get to rewrite it if they survive and recover.
 
2013-05-14 04:18:49 AM

bukijin: My favorite comment about the war when I lived in Japan was that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour in retaliation for the nuclear attacks by the US.


Did they use Obamas time machine to do it?
 
2013-05-14 04:20:47 AM

1000 Ways to Dye: Oh well. History class in the US doesn't talk about the wars we lost. The War of 1812 is just a footnote in most text books, Korea and Vietnam are lumped together in the same week.


As this article stated, the blame goes beyond the teachers.  In my case (early 2000s) a major reason why I didn't get a whole lot of post WWII history taught was simply because it wasn't covered much in the AP test.  Not sure if the AP still has that policy of not covering anything recent or not.

/got a 4 on it
 
2013-05-14 04:22:11 AM
What do they Japs have to say about tentacle porn? That's for more interesting than how they got pwned in the war.
 
2013-05-14 04:24:28 AM

bukijin: My favorite comment about the war when I lived in Japan was that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour in retaliation for the nuclear attacks by the US.


Did the chairman of the Japanese (geen) Tea Party say that?
 
2013-05-14 04:26:15 AM

1000 Ways to Dye: Oh well. History class in the US doesn't talk about the wars we lost. The War of 1812 is just a footnote in most text books, Korea and Vietnam are lumped together in the same week.


US history education definitely has its flaws, but I'd say we try to do a fairly good job at trying to be fair.

We talk about how hugely controversial Hiroshima and Nagasaki were. We talk about how totally stupid Vietnam was. Heck, usually the protests get more class time than the actual war. We talk about the trail of tears and the problems with westward expansion.

I'll admit that education on the war of 1812 usually boils down to "war with the Brits/Canadians, they burned the capitol and Francis Scot Key wrote a song" though.
 
2013-05-14 04:26:57 AM
I'd rather a culture be embarrassed of past behavior than admiring it.
 
2013-05-14 04:27:28 AM
I'm a bit confused. Based on the exchange students I've known, they've come to the country nervous about people holding a grudge, only to be surprised that no one does. Do people hold a grudge elsewhere? And do other places just happen to get ignorant exchange students?

/at UCSC and UCB
 
2013-05-14 04:27:36 AM
no - my middle aged housewife and salaryman English students.
 
2013-05-14 04:27:45 AM

1000 Ways to Dye: Oh well. History class in the US doesn't talk about the wars we lost. The War of 1812 is just a footnote in most text books, Korea and Vietnam are lumped together in the same week.


Were you home schooled?
 
2013-05-14 04:34:06 AM
Just wondering, why do American Farkers feel that the Germans are too worried about their past? E.g.,

Mentat: Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.

To the point of paranoia.

 
2013-05-14 04:38:01 AM

ansius: Just wondering, why do American Farkers feel that the Germans are too worried about their past? E.g.,

Mentat: Asa Phelps: I'm pretty sure the germans are honest about what went down.

To the point of paranoia.


Mostly due to the restrictions on hate speech and imagery. Americans (I'm generalizing) don't believe that silencing such speech is worthwhile because it creates the opportunity for the disaffected to meet and grow clandestinely. Better to let people be out in the open about their beliefs than to force them underground.
 
2013-05-14 04:38:11 AM

hubiestubert: I still have family in Japan.


Thank you for the most interesting post I have ever read on Fark.
 
2013-05-14 04:39:00 AM

orbister: hubiestubert: I still have family in Japan.

Thank you for the most interesting post I have ever read on Fark.


You must have missed the faux-Prince post a couple weeks back.
 
2013-05-14 04:40:16 AM
This has always been a real issue with Japan, ever since the days of Saburo Ienaga's textbook woes. Japan simply has problems admitting the truth of her awful past, and by "Have problems" I mean "They don't really teach anything about World War II". But what really sucks is that Japan's educational intransigence is ending up costing them dearly. When I look at the famous tumblr, "Korean Students Speak", I see so many Korean kids, under 18, who absolutely, positively, despise Japan precisely for their bullheaded nature.


24.media.tumblr.com

24.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com

Why this bothers me is that Japan has lost GENERATIONS thanks to this. And it's not just Korea, it's also China as well. Korea will not be divided forever, Korea is stabilizing to become an economic (and military) force. Same with China. With this level of resentment simmering, it won't be long before Japan will be really behind both economically and militarily. And the US won't back up Japan forever, especially if China and Korea are the bigger trade partners.

Basically, if Japan doesn't fess up and start teaching their kids what genuinely happened, as well as offer clear apologies to their neighbors, this resentment will only fester through the ages. These kids aren't wrong--Japan likes to pretend that Korea is just being willfull, not understanding the level of brutality that they put Asia and much of the world through for so long. And that's sad.
 
2013-05-14 04:43:05 AM

Mentat: To the point of paranoia.


Captain Dan: The Germans obsess over World War II and fascism to the point of being leery of nationalism.


Absolutely.   German history in schools not only cover the dark years of national socialism but brings out that Germans to this day are still guilty of the atrocities that happened under Hitler.
 
2013-05-14 04:44:04 AM

Wessoman: Basically, if Japan doesn't fess up and start teaching their kids what genuinely happened, as well as offer clear apologies to their neighbors, this resentment will only fester through the ages


What is especially scary is that they are running out of time to be able to do this. Those kids who didn't learn any of this will grow up and be the next politicians and business men, and they won't want to make things right because they won't understand.
 
2013-05-14 04:44:49 AM
So they basically handle it the same way Americans do killing the Indians and enslaving black people, right?
 
2013-05-14 04:46:17 AM
I've met Japanese tourists here in Las Vegas who have either never heard of WWII, or have thought that they and we Americans were on the same side.

As for the internment camps here, that was an invention of William Randolph Hearst's publishing empire to seize the strawberry farms around San Francisco and to hand the agricultural industry back into the hands of a bunch of good old white boys (some of whom I'm related to).
 
2013-05-14 04:50:32 AM

Hofheim: Mentat: To the point of paranoia.

Captain Dan: The Germans obsess over World War II and fascism to the point of being leery of nationalism.

Absolutely.   German history in schools not only cover the dark years of national socialism but brings out that Germans to this day are still guilty of the atrocities that happened under Hitler.


At a hobby shop I used to go to, there was this one German guy who loved to play tabletop miniatures games, but he would have an anxiety attack if anybody asked him to play a WWII themed game. He was just a kid, but he carried so much guilt.
 
2013-05-14 04:55:16 AM

Gyrfalcon: Japanese American people often fail to understand why neighbouring Middle Eastern countries harbour a grudge over events that happened in the 1930s and 40s. The reason, in many cases, is that they barely learned any 20th Century history. I myself only got a full picture when I left Japan high school and went to school in Australia. college.

Rinse. Repeat. Replace.


Sadly, history is on of the most abused subjects in education because so many people have an agenda.
 And the lies do nothing to help.
 
Displayed 50 of 267 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report