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(NPR)   A rise in multiracial births is confusing the Census, as children are beginning to check more than one box as they no longer identify with one particular race   (npr.org) divider line 347
    More: Spiffy, other mother, Pew Hispanic Center, racial identity, births  
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6440 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2013 at 11:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-13 02:50:49 PM

James!: I'm okay with this.


Me, too!

/biracial
 
2013-05-13 02:51:55 PM
Here in America we value diversity.  Now pick ONE BOX ONLY, citizen.
 
2013-05-13 02:52:10 PM
I was looking forward to a thread full of hot biracial women, and there were none to be found. Maybe Vonapathy can save the day.
 
2013-05-13 02:52:52 PM
J. Frank Parnell

Different colors of human only have something like 0.5% genetic variation. While humans and chimps have a 5% genetic variation. Based on that i'd consider 4-5% genetic variation to be significant...

I'm curious as to how you regard the Neandertal or Neandertal-like (depending on which theory you believe) DNA that all humans but sub-Saharan Africans share. It runs at 1-4% in most individuals. That's almost at your 5% humanzee divide, and certainly a larger distance between sub-Saharan Africans ("blacks") and everyone else than .5%.

/humanzee is a fun word
 
2013-05-13 02:53:26 PM
i have family members who want to know why Obama is always mentioned as black? They always ask...where is his mother? Is he ashamed of being half white?

Also...

Gonz- maybe...

24.media.tumblr.com

i keed...i keed...
 
2013-05-13 02:55:59 PM

YoOjo: What's it called when an orange Kurdish attention whore with sixteen buttocks worth of buttocks mates with a confused looking retarded Somali pirate lookalike?


Rule 34
 
2013-05-13 02:58:12 PM

DerAppie: Gonz: devilEther: What most of you seem to be taking lightly is no less than the genocide of the Caucasoid race.

I'm OK with this.

I am of lightly mixed race. There is mention of the "Indian blood" on my dad's side about 4 generations back. It's the type of "Indian" from late-1800s Kentucky that leads to dark, curly hair. My wife's family is English, Russian, German, and Polish... primarily.

Our kids are blonde-haired and blue-eyed. I don't pretend to understand genetics.

I always wondered, why do peoole care so much about their ancestry? Once you name 4 which are "primary" cultural backgrounds, then that would lead me to assume that the only person thinking she is actually German and English and Russian and Polish would be the person self. I doubt she has the mannerisms of even half the cultures she decended from, and that those that she does have, have been filtered through the mannerisms of her parents, the culture where the various contributors to her genetic make-up grew up, the people at school and the culture of nation where she grew up.

After the 2nd cultural background people should just accept that they only share a cultural link with their parents and the people in the place they grew up in. Claiming multiple cultures is just silly and claiming multiple races is only interesting to a doctor as medical history.


Well, I do but my grandparents from one side where born and raised in Ireland.

My Mom's been investigating her side and discovered that her great-grandpa wasn't Amish, he was a German immigrant from Prussia who during WWI lied about his ancestry to prevent discrimination.

It's a fun history project, nothing more.
 
2013-05-13 02:58:19 PM
When I'm asked to give my race/ethnicity for something, I just check the "other" box and write in "Meat Popsicle".
 
2013-05-13 02:58:29 PM

Arkanaut: There may be less phenotypical expression of the recessive genes, but they will still be there to be passed on. "Dominance" does not affect odds of inheritance, unless the feature affects survival / reproduction / child rearing. In fact I would say that blonde / red hair and blue / green eyes confer a reproductive advantage, because people find those features attractive; so even if the immediate child generation might not have those features, later generations might express them again, so there will be a floor for how much those traits might disperse.



Correct, phenotype is really what everyone is talking about as there is no real 'race' in genetics.  That's what I meant if I was not clear enough.  And in that realm, dominance will in fact determine 'race'.  And it should be clear to everyone that recessive genes can still express after equilibrium.  No one has had red hair in my family that anyone can recall for several generations.  I have a ginger beard.

Basically the pool has gotten much larger in the last few hundred years, and the more isolated genetic profiles are now all mixing.  A new balance is coming about.


BafflerMeal: One of the assumptions for Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium:

'there is no migration, mutation or selection '

While there is certainly greater migration these days, there is still a tendency for people, especially in developed countries (e.g. most of the ones with white people in them) to stay in those countries. Yes people are afraid of teh immigants but even among immigrant population, reproductive rates decline after one or two generations.

Also, I'd like to point out that "selection" part -- I think people tend to pick someone like themselves as their mate; while this is no longer restricted to "race", however you define it, there are still a lot of things that correlate with race, such as wealth and education. And of course that's not to discount people who will select based on appearance, for whatever reasons -- there will probably be a lot of them around to preserve their gene pool.



We have to disagree here.  Wealth and education correlate with socioeconomic status.  Not race.  That plays out like Victorian thinking about the 'lesser races'.

Regardless, no one said less dominant expressions would go away.  They will just become less prevalent in the mix unless they end up having a reproductive advantage.
 
2013-05-13 03:00:43 PM

shortymac: My best friend of 10+ years is black, apparently light-colored Black people are "house slaves" and look down upon the darker "field slaves".

I did notice when I visited her at a historical black college that the girls did tend to form into clique's based on how light their skin was, it was very weird.


Its pretty common in a lot of cultures, not just Italians or blacks.  In many Central and South American countries, and Asian countries, dark skin is looked upon badly, because historically those with dark complexions were dark because they had been working in the fields, while those with lighter skin were the upper class who spent most of their time inside.  Just because now skin color has more to do with genetics instead of your position in society, doesn't mean the old prejudices have gone away.

In many Asian countries there's a huge business in "skin whiteners", and you can't turn on the TV for long without seeing a commercial for them or walk into a pharmacy without seeing entire rows dedicated to them.  Also, most TV newscasters and other positions are usually given to those with very white skin, especially amongst women.
 
2013-05-13 03:04:53 PM

ShawnDoc: In many Asian countries there's a huge business in "skin whiteners", and you can't turn on the TV for long without seeing a commercial for them or walk into a pharmacy without seeing entire rows dedicated to them.  Also, most TV newscasters and other positions are usually given to those with very white skin, especially amongst women.


I gotta admit that it's REALLY Uncanny Valley seeing the girl from "Gangnam Style" with this paper-white skin and totally Asian features.  That is some really good makeup.
 
2013-05-13 03:06:31 PM

shortymac: Great Janitor: Good, now, can we drop the race question from the civil service tests, employment applications, food stamp applications, welfare applications so on and so forth.  Now, I know that legally I can't be denied for a job or a promotion because of my race, but when ever I see that page about the optional (or on some website applications, non-optional) questions about my race and gender, I can't help but to think that there is some HR manager sifting through those applications and deleting those who's race doesn't fit with what they are looking for at the time.  I only think this because I once worked for a Fortune 500 company where, during the annual off-site company meeting, the head of HR said that she was wanting to put more women into leadership positions and was looking to hire more hispanics.  What I heard was "No matter how qualified you are for any leadership position or for the job, if you are a male, or black, white, asian or middle eastern, you aren't even getting an interview."  Most asinine question I was asked there was when I was during my exit interview.  I was asked "Was there enough diversity in the company?"  and I said "I don't give a damn about diversity as long as person I'm working under got the job because they were the best person for the job who applied and a lesser choice who was picked because they happened to be the race you were looking for that day."  She didn't care for that answer.

I have always found that people who truly don't care about "diversity" (The PC type) and look for competent people tend to have the most diverse teams of people.

I work with a:

Trinidad Chinese (with some others mixed in)
Chinese guy
Chinese girl
Ethiopian girl
Ukrainian guy
Italian guy
Irish/German American girl (me)
Irish Canadian guy


My entire view point, which you helped out actually, is that employers shouldn't be passing over good people for a job because they aren't the race that they are looking to fill.  If you simply hire the best applicant, then you will get a diverse workforce.  If you say "Well, 54% of the population of the city that this store is in is black, so we should hire only blacks until 54% of the employees are black." you're doing it wrong because you aren't looking first at the qualifications, you're looking first at the race of the applicant.  And sadly, there are HR people who foolishly look at diversity first, qualifications second, and not just with job applications, but also with internal promotions.
 
2013-05-13 03:07:34 PM

devilEther: What most of you seem to be taking lightly is no less than the genocide of the Caucasoid race.


Since more and more of humanity works indoors away from direct sunlight, the evolutionary trend would be for everyone to become white.

Northern Europeans are white because the gulf current makes northern Europe warm enough to grow grains at a very high latitude.  Diets high in grains are very low in vitamin D, so when agriculture was introduced in northern Europe, the people there quickly acquired mutations to knock out melanin production.
 
2013-05-13 03:09:10 PM

Wadded Beef: simplicimus: Amongst my in-laws I have two black/white grandchildren. three Puerto Rices/white nieces/nephews, 1 Mexican/white nephew. Not really shocked by the news.

I have two Chinese nieces.  I think my sister was planning on just one, but when you adopt Chinese, an hour later you want to adopt again.


ROR!
 
2013-05-13 03:09:16 PM

SirEattonHogg: However, the instructions for the census says quite specifically Filipinos are Asians... not pacific islanders and should be recorded as such. As a side note, I think that makes far more sense anyways and the issue was idiotic in the first place.


That's because most Filipinos are descended from Malays, with some Spanish blood thrown in.  Just like how people from Taiwan or Japan aren't considered Pacific Islanders.  Pacific Islander usually refers to those of Polynesian, Melanesia or Micronesian (Chomorro) descent, as they share a non-Malay ancestry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_islander .
 
2013-05-13 03:09:24 PM

HortusMatris: When I'm asked to give my race/ethnicity for something, I just check the "other" box and write in "Meat Popsicle".


During the last census there was some door knocker who asked me about those who lived in my home.  It was just me and the wife.  I told the woman that my race was other: Time Lord, and that my wife was other: Klingon.
 
2013-05-13 03:14:30 PM

BafflerMeal: Wealth and education correlate with socioeconomic status.  Not race.  That plays out like Victorian thinking about the 'lesser races'.


Sure sure.  But they have accumulated mostly to white people in this country, and wealth tends to perpetuate itself in various ways -- wealthy people can afford better education for their children, and thus allow their children to make more money, so they can afford better education for their children, etc. etc.  And those children, to quote one of the eminent poets of our time, they ain't messin' with no broke n*gga.
 
2013-05-13 03:15:32 PM

shortymac: Well, I do but my grandparents from one side where born and raised in Ireland.

My Mom's been investigating her side and discovered that her great-grandpa wasn't Amish, he was a German immigrant from Prussia who during WWI lied about his ancestry to prevent discrimination.

It's a fun history project, nothing more.


Do what? Care about your ancestry or claim multiple cultures? If the first, good on you. Have fun with your history project. If the second, well, everyone is allowed their delusions as long as they don't hurt anyone.
 
2013-05-13 03:20:33 PM
So vote republican?
 
2013-05-13 03:22:46 PM

moothemagiccow: RACE IS A STUPID CONCEPT


Says the guy with the asian fetish
 
2013-05-13 03:25:22 PM

NittLion78: I never answer because "MURRICAN!!1" is never an option

THANKS OBAMA


CSB: in 1990, I received the "long form" census.

I checked the box under "Other" EVERY time and filled in the blank, "U.S. of American." (I, my parents AND my grandparents all were born in this country, so aren't we at least entitled to call ourselves "U.S.Americans" by now?)

Yes, filling it out made the whole thing longer, but I had plenty of time and didn't care.

/They never came by to check my race.
 
2013-05-13 03:38:33 PM

MonoChango: DerAppie: After the 2nd cultural background people should just accept that they only share a cultural link with their parents and the people in the place they grew up in. Claiming multiple cultures is just silly and claiming multiple races is only interesting to a doctor as medical history.

THIS
I was stuck on a plane with a racist old lady.  I was board and was chatting with her anyway trying to see if I could at least get her to see that people other than what she grew up with, are still humans.  Anyway she was worried that "white America was going to become extinct."  I told her.  "Don't worry about it.  In the future people may change their skin color like we change our hair color.  My kids are far darker than me but they are all suburban computer geeks, because I raised them.  It's all about culture not genetics."


My father did this to me.

TL;DR: My now-hubby is Scottish/English but with dark eyes, hair and tanned skin. When I was dating him my Black Irish Dad said "You know, you'll have dark colored babies with him, right?"

So I said "Oh! They'll look just like you Dad!" He never mentioned it again.

The back story:

He's "Black Irish", dark skin and hair, those few who are blessed with the ability to tan. Both parents born and bred in Ireland so there's no hidden black or native relative in there. Growing up people thought my Grandpa was his Puerto Rican co-worker until he opened his mouth.

Growing up he would introduce himself as Mr. "Obvious Irish Name Here" and people would always say "So your Mom's Italian?" because Irish people are all pale redheads (rolls eyes).   He got pulled in for questioning at Aussie customs because "Irish people don't get that dark" and they thought he was a Mexican.

/It's all bullshiat anyway.
 
2013-05-13 03:40:54 PM

FLMountainMan: FLMountainMan: simplicimus: Amongst my in-laws I have two black/white grandchildren. three Puerto Rices/white nieces/nephews, 1 Mexican/white nephew. Not really shocked by the news.

CSB - My best friend is 3/8 Chinese, 5/8 white.   His twin married an Armenian.  His older brother married a  half-Phillipino, half-Mexican woman and had three kids, who are 5/16 white, 3/16 Chinese, 1/4 Mexican, and 1/4 Phillipino (which itself a mix of Spanish and Asian).  Their oldest kid is about to marry a Sephardic Jew Colombian, so good luck tracking all that nonsense.

FTFM, not that anyone cares.


I kinda do, that's awesome.

Polish-German marrying a Irish boy, so if I actually had kids they'd be lily white as all get out.  My best friend is Japanese-Polish, though no progeny yet.
 
2013-05-13 03:42:25 PM

kid_icarus: How will we sort our porn in the future?


BBW ain't gonna change, man.
 
2013-05-13 03:52:08 PM
So its cool that the white race is going extinct to you people?

I guess that whole "diversity" thing everyone celebrates really was a ruse then huh? Sounds less like a celebration of diversity and more like a celebration of racial destruction.
 
2013-05-13 03:54:23 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: i have family members who want to know why Obama is always mentioned as black? They always ask...where is his mother? Is he ashamed of being half white?

Also...

Gonz- maybe...

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x267]

i keed...i keed...


Because traditionally in American culture if you have 1 drop of black blood in you, you where "black". You where barred from voting in certain US states if you had 1 black relative going back to 8 generations.

/Farking stupid
 
2013-05-13 03:54:33 PM
Spiffy!?  It's a farking shame.  In several generations we'll all look very much alike.  I prefer variety and individuality to a world of bland similarity.
 
2013-05-13 03:57:16 PM
I thought this was going to be a thread about hot multiracial women.
 
2013-05-13 03:57:50 PM

FLMountainMan: OH NOES!!!!  How can we play identity politics then?


I'm sure humans will find a way.
 
2013-05-13 03:57:53 PM

jshine: OminousAnonymous: Maybe someone can explain... aren't we all the same race?  Are we not all homo sapien?

Homo sapiens is a species designation. The word race means whatever the person using it wants it to mean, so its impossible to have any meaningful discussion about it.


As we all well know, "race" is what is used to classify proper Teutonics vs inferiors, such as the Irish Race, the Italic Race, the Iberian Race, and those other Races of Europe.
 
2013-05-13 04:01:14 PM
Will there be just one general box for us OtherKin to check? As someone who identifies himself as a gnome I would hate to be lumped in with Elves, Orcs or Furries.
 
2013-05-13 04:01:27 PM
atomicmask

So its cool that the white race is going extinct to you people?

I'm not going to say that there aren't people who cheer such a notion, I just don't understand how you get to "the white race is going extinct" from "some people have children with individuals of other races."
 
2013-05-13 04:05:58 PM

Facetious_Speciest: atomicmask

So its cool that the white race is going extinct to you people?

I'm not going to say that there aren't people who cheer such a notion, I just don't understand how you get to "the white race is going extinct" from "some people have children with individuals of other races."


How do I get that?

1. If a growing portion of individuals are no longer being one race
2. That means that said races, black, white, asian, etc...are shrinking..
3. Typically, when a species is shrinking, it means extinction is on the way..

I do not find that spiffy or great, I find that sad. It means a generic dull brown mix of person, with no individual traits is going to make up the majority of the population. Which in turn proves the racist propagandists right, it never was about equality and diversity, it was all about destruction and muddling.
 
2013-05-13 04:10:17 PM

QueenMamaBee: So you've been to Letcher County, Kentucky?

I went there for a wedding several years ago, and I was by far the darkest person in the county. It's like they all live in caves and fear the sun.


Well it makes sense since according to wiki
The racial makeup of the county was 98.71% white.

Where I live the racial makeup is 97% white.
 
2013-05-13 04:11:06 PM

atomicmask: Which in turn proves the racist propagandists right, it never was about equality and diversity, it was all about destruction and muddling.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-13 04:15:41 PM
Muggles.
 
2013-05-13 04:21:40 PM

Silly_Sot: jshine: OminousAnonymous: Maybe someone can explain... aren't we all the same race?  Are we not all homo sapien?

Homo sapiens is a species designation. The word race means whatever the person using it wants it to mean, so its impossible to have any meaningful discussion about it.

As we all well know, "race" is what is used to classify proper Teutonics vs inferiors, such as the Irish Race, the Italic Race, the Iberian Race, and those other Races of Europe.


Well, if that's what you want it to mean I suppose...

Most words surrounding politically-charged or socially "difficult" topics end up becoming ambiguous because their definitions get twisted through years or decades of arguments.  Re-defining terms is a pretty common debate tactic, so over time one just ends up with an ambiguous mess.

As an alternate example, what does the word "retarded" really mean?  Or going back farther, "idiot" was once a well-accepted and reasonably unambiguous medical term.

Similarly, the word "race" has been the center of so much vitriol acrimony that whatever usefulness the word once had in the lexicon is gone -- but that isn't to say that all humans now look alike or share the same trends in heritable physical characteristics.  We just don't have a succinct and politically correct term to describe the concept.
 
2013-05-13 04:32:23 PM

DerAppie: shortymac: Well, I do but my grandparents from one side where born and raised in Ireland.

My Mom's been investigating her side and discovered that her great-grandpa wasn't Amish, he was a German immigrant from Prussia who during WWI lied about his ancestry to prevent discrimination.

It's a fun history project, nothing more.

Do what? Care about your ancestry or claim multiple cultures? If the first, good on you. Have fun with your history project. If the second, well, everyone is allowed their delusions as long as they don't hurt anyone.


I care about my ancestry.

I'm not dumb enough to claim multiple cultures. While I may have a slightly better idea of Irish history than an American I'm not going to talk about how "Irish" I am.  Irish culture has changed a lot since they left in the 1950's.
 
2013-05-13 04:37:08 PM

mbillips: Sheesh. "Races" are pseudo-scientific constructs that consist of family resemblance, nothing more. The median difference between members of a "race" is larger than the median difference between "races," with the exception of a few superficial bits of outward appearance such as tightly curled hair or epicanthic folds. No one has ever made a scientific description that describes a "race" biologically.

Dog breeds are something entirely different, created by intensive selected breeding. Put a group of "purebred" dogs together, and eventually they'll breed back to something that resembles a coyote.


They're not really that different.  Humans in isolated geographical regions with different cultural norms are exposed to both different climates (which select for, say, darker skin to prevent cancer in brighter sun) as well as sexual preferences.  I.e., different cultures consider different traits to be attractive.  As an example, some birds (peacocks, for example) have useless plumage that they evolved simply because it was considered attractive by other birds, but provided no other benefit and may even be harmful to their survival.  The same principle is doubtless at work in humans, only for a shorter span of time: any trait that is considered attractive within a culture will be selected for over the generations.  Its not quite as direct and intentional as the way humans bred dogs to have a certain appearance, but then again, it would have been operating over a longer span of time.
 
2013-05-13 04:40:55 PM

jehovahs witness protection: I'm a German Dutch Native American American, AND PROUD OF IT


Racist!
 
2013-05-13 04:42:05 PM

clkeagle: That's great. In only seven or eight more generations, we'll finally realize that the "race" block on a form is utterly meaningless.

What a stupid way to view the world.


I always write in "Human" on any form that asks my race.
 
2013-05-13 04:44:22 PM

Jello Fever: I'm okay with this as long as they don't turk ur jrrbs.


They won't; they already did.
 
2013-05-13 04:44:35 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Spiffy!?  It's a farking shame.  In several generations we'll all look very much alike.  I prefer variety and individuality to a world of bland similarity.


But what if they all looked like this:

1.bp.blogspot.com

Bow to your Lebanese-Mexican overlords!
 
2013-05-13 04:45:40 PM
So if some white guy is born in South Africa and later becomes a US citizen, can he call himself an African-American?
 
2013-05-13 04:55:48 PM
atomicmask

1. If a growing portion of individuals are no longer being one race
2. That means that said races, black, white, asian, etc...are shrinking..
3. Typically, when a species is shrinking, it means extinction is on the way..


I disagree. The birth of a mixed-race child in no way indicates the white population is shrinking. It's not a zero-sum situation; all populations, generally speaking, are growing. There are probably more white people alive today than at any other time in history.

If you mean to suggest that white people are shrinking as a percentage of the world population, that's a different argument, but miscegenation has almost nothing to do with it; the largest ethnic group in the world (the Han) outnumber all the various "white people" put together already, unless you really stretch what the term "white people" can logically encompass...

I do not find that spiffy or great, I find that sad. It means a generic dull brown mix of person, with no individual traits is going to make up the majority of the population. Which in turn proves the racist propagandists right, it never was about equality and diversity, it was all about destruction and muddling.

Assuming for the sake of discussion this were true, I have a hard time seeing the people that invented spaceships and nukes going quietly when the final hour tolls. Maybe I just have more white pride than you, but I imagine that peoples whose oldest legends usually end in a world-shattering conflict that destroys and remakes reality could be pretty good at a final race war if their backs were against the wall.
 
2013-05-13 04:55:49 PM

DerAppie: If you start with a sufficiently large amount of gingers then you could still expect gingers to crop up after a few dozen generations. But the amount of gingers born would decrease. Assume an Irish ginger with ginger genes on both chromosomes in Asia. (S)he only passes along 1. If the partner doesn't pass along the gene (which Asian don't posses according to South Park) then you'd only have a 50% chance that the grandchild of the ginger person passes on the ginger gene to a child. 25% that the great grand child receives a ginger gene etc. Due to the fact that there are fewer people with red hair than without it would seem simple math that increased mobility threatens the red hair gene.

/I have a red beard and would like to offer my services to preserve the existence if redheads



You're assuming that the ginger only has one kid. If she has two kids, then the number of ginger genes in the population remains the same in the next generation.


If she has only one kid with another ginger, then it also results in less gingers in the world because 4 ginger genes are now only 2.

Hardy-Weinberg says that the number of genes in the population will remain the same. Yes, the number of gingers with both recessive genes will decrease but the total number of ginger genes will remain the same in the population. So, there will always be gingers - it won't be that gingers will disappear with inbreeding and we all turn into medium brown as the OP was suggesting.
 
2013-05-13 05:06:26 PM
BraveNewCheneyWorld  Spiffy!?  It's a farking shame.  In several generations we'll all look very much alike.  I prefer variety and individuality to a world of bland similarity.

Brazil is supposedly even more mixed in terms of races than the US, and their people hardly look bland and similar.
 
2013-05-13 05:08:18 PM
Time to introduce "Miscellaneous" or "Combination of some or all of the above" choices.
 
2013-05-13 05:11:35 PM

mr0x: Hardy-Weinberg says that the number of genes in the population will remain the same. Yes, the number of gingers with both recessive genes will decrease but the total number of ginger genes will remain the same in the population. So, there will always be gingers - it won't be that gingers will disappear with inbreeding and we all turn into medium brown as the OP was suggesting.


Looking at the math behind the Hardy-Weinberg principle seems to suggest that they are implicitly assuming non-integer numbers of individuals are possible.  ...that is, that its possible to have (say) 0.3333... of a person.  In a large enough population (7 billion of us), that's probably a reasonably safe assumption, since a single person is a small percentage of the population and the difference between a discrete-valued and a continuously-valued variable is tiny, but its still only approximately true.

If one considers a population with a total of (say) 10 individuals, where the difference between a continuous and discrete-valued variable is more significant, it would certainly be possible to drive a gene completely into extinction.

/one has to be very careful applying math to biological populations, since continuously-valued variables are rarely exactly appropriate -- lest one run into the "atto-fox problem"
 
2013-05-13 05:14:25 PM
Countries in the Western Hemisphere are very young.  Brazil is about 200 years old -- that's about 8 human generations -- and many of its people probably are descended from immigrants that arrived more recently than that.
 
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