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(Planet F1)   How bad are the Pirelli tires in F1 this year? Well, GP2 cars are running about 3 seconds a lap quicker. That's like a Miata beating a Veyron in a drag race   (planetf1.com) divider line 70
    More: Asinine, Pirellis, Spanish Grand Prix, Felipe Massa, Jenson Button, drag racers, Mercedes' Nico Rosberg, Kimi Raikkonen, Miata  
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2143 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 May 2013 at 8:26 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-13 08:52:53 AM
I'd love to see the Mercs on a set of Bridgestones, to see what it can do over the course of a race.
 
2013-05-13 08:59:59 AM
Paul Hembery said they got it wrong - changed for Silverstone apparently. It is a fine margin to get right - we don't want processional races either. Tough for the company to get it spot on in all temps on all surfaces on all cars
 
2013-05-13 09:02:48 AM
One tire manufacturer/one basic car/one engine provider are things that are wrong with modern motorsports.
 
2013-05-13 09:05:13 AM
how about not pulling numbers out of your ass mr. button (and subby taking them as true)

race fastest laps

f1: 1:26.217
gp2: 1:33.337

quali times

f1: 1:20.718
gp2: 1:28.706

seems like f1 times were just fine
 
2013-05-13 09:17:02 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: how about not pulling numbers out of your ass mr. button (and subby taking them as true)

race fastest laps

f1: 1:26.217
gp2: 1:33.337

quali times

f1: 1:20.718
gp2: 1:28.706

seems like f1 times were just fine


THIS.   Button was complaining his tires were off, if he's running a 1:31 in the race he should have pitted.   Same tires for all drivers.
 
2013-05-13 09:51:58 AM
Yeah, I was coming here to say submitter is an idiot about the lap times, but the tyres are still stupid.
 
2013-05-13 09:54:03 AM
The massive butthurt over having to manage tire wear again started out funny, but is getting old fast.

The best teams will adapt. Lotus has. Ferrari did by changing strategy. Redbull will throw millions of dollars at it and will be back by the end of the season. Midpack teams will continue to be a mixed bag, providing amusing highlights and lowlights. Dysfunctional groups like Mercedes and McLaren will shoot themselves in the foot all season, and wait for all the rules to get shuffled around next year.

By this time next season, even if no changes are made to the tires, everyone will be biatching about the new thing that's "ruined" F1.
 
2013-05-13 10:12:38 AM

Jensaarai: The massive butthurt over having to manage tire wear again started out funny, but is getting old fast.

The best teams will adapt. Lotus has. Ferrari did by changing strategy. Redbull will throw millions of dollars at it and will be back by the end of the season. Midpack teams will continue to be a mixed bag, providing amusing highlights and lowlights. Dysfunctional groups like Mercedes and McLaren will shoot themselves in the foot all season, and wait for all the rules to get shuffled around next year.

By this time next season, even if no changes are made to the tires, everyone will be biatching about the new thing that's "ruined" F1.


And that new thing will most likely be the switch to turbo V6 engines.

/tyres are chode-tastic
 
2013-05-13 10:16:57 AM
What a horrible editor, they spelled tire wrong so many times in that article!
 
2013-05-13 10:36:30 AM

fatalvenom: One tire manufacturer/one basic car/one engine provider are things that are wrong with modern motorsports.


I agree fully, the manufactures should not be able to pay for the exclusive use of their product.
To be honest it's kind of fascist, he with the biggest wallet gets the work.
And it punishes the working man because there are not as many companies needed thus less workers needed (at all levels and in all departments including middle management and brand management)

If you're million dollar investment is being ruined by a set of 20,000 dollar tires which do change first?
 
2013-05-13 10:45:23 AM
Do the tires interfere with the radio transmissions that are used to set the finishing order?
 
2013-05-13 10:49:42 AM

fatalvenom: One tire manufacturer/one basic car/one engine provider are things that are wrong with modern motorsports.


very interesting. i remember back in CHAMP car having to decide what engine/chassi/tire combo teams would use. then you had teams that had their own chassi design. im sure F1 has alot of different combos. but the one thing that bored me about CHAMP car or F1 for that matter is sometimes the lack of action. i like to see passing, fighting for position, good qualifying. ive seen some of it lately in F1 but would liek a little more.
 
2013-05-13 10:52:50 AM

The Muthaship: Do the tires interfere with the radio transmissions that are used to set the finishing order?


Hah.
 
2013-05-13 10:59:44 AM
I Miss The Bridgestone / Goodyear / Michelin Tyre Wars In F1.
 
2013-05-13 10:59:58 AM
Raikkonen has said he doesn't mind the tires.  Therefore, they're fine.

i.imgur.com


Now, the business of conserving tires during qualifying in order to have them usable at the start of the race is complete and utter bullshiat, and it's leading to drivers only doing two or even one fast laps in Q3.  That garbage has to stop.  It's time to give them three sets of tires to use just for FP3 and qualifying.
 
2013-05-13 11:02:32 AM
Oh, and THANKS ADMINS for not greenlighting one of the two race threads yesterday.  You know we show up for every race - why can't a race thread be greenlit late Saturday night so we know it's up in time for the lights to go out?
 
2013-05-13 11:20:42 AM
There are numerous rules and regulations built into the sport already that have no purpose other than to A) increase parity between racing teams in order to drive competitive balance; and B) reduce the speed of the cars on the track to keep people from dying.  So the tires alone aren't the only thing keeping drivers from "going as fast as they can".

But bad tires are bad tires, and quite frankly when pit-stop order is the most exciting part of the race it's a bad race.
 
2013-05-13 11:21:34 AM
Okay, 'fess up. In whose voice did you read the headline:

getlodgedinza.files.wordpress.com

/Clarkson
 
2013-05-13 11:40:01 AM

Jensaarai: By this time next season, even if no changes are made to the tires, everyone will be biatching about the new thing that's "ruined" F1.


Actually as of now there is no tire supplier for next year.
 
2013-05-13 11:41:37 AM
A good craftsman never blames his tools.
 
2013-05-13 11:42:34 AM

colinspooky: we don't want processional races either.


Right now the tires are such garbage that no one can really race anyone for too long. There's no excuse for hard compound tires being good for 15 laps. Drivers were already complaining about the tires last year, and Pirellis response seems to be to have made the tires even more delicate. When drivers are being told six laps into a stint to watch their tires, something is seriously wrong.
 
2013-05-13 11:43:33 AM

Cybernetic: A good craftsman never blames his tools.


But a good crafstman has a choice in where to get his tools, F1 teams don't have a choice in where to get tires.
 
2013-05-13 11:44:35 AM

OtherLittleGuy: /Clarkson


Is there really any other option?
 
2013-05-13 11:45:15 AM

Cybernetic: A good craftsman never blames his tools.


what about a good snap-on?
 
2013-05-13 11:48:47 AM

WhyteRaven74: colinspooky: we don't want processional races either.

When drivers are being told six laps into a stint to watch their tires, something is seriously wrong.


Yep, sure is. Shame - but as I said, tough balancing act. We've had some fine races, and now a poor one - let's just hope the tyre tweak does the job.  Also, subby didn't say that, Button did.  And I don't stick up for subbies often......

 
2013-05-13 11:49:19 AM

WhyteRaven74: Cybernetic: A good craftsman never blames his tools.

But a good crafstman has a choice in where to get his tools, F1 teams don't have a choice in where to get tires.


No, but if the tires suck, and there's only one supplier, then the tires suck for everyone. It should be a no-op. You're either good enough to win the race with that equipment, or you're not.

It's different if a car has some sort of catastrophic mechanical failure (blown engine, broken suspension, etc) that is peculiar to that vehicle. But if it's common equipment, then it should be "STFU and win the race."
 
2013-05-13 11:58:09 AM
For anyone complaining about parade races, seriously, watch some indycar this year. It's been great.
 
2013-05-13 12:12:02 PM

crotchgrabber: For anyone complaining about parade races, seriously, watch some indycar this year. It's been great.


maybe if they ran on something other than ovals and shiatty street circuits

watched part of the race at barber, and was good.  then back on street circuit, watched a few laps, no thanks

sonoma and mid-ohio are the only other real tracks they run it seems
 
2013-05-13 12:21:44 PM
If they weren't driving to a specific tire wear they'd be driving to a fuel consumption number.

Has there ever been a point in F1 where drivers were running a race like it was 55 qualifying laps?
 
2013-05-13 12:26:37 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: crotchgrabber: For anyone complaining about parade races, seriously, watch some indycar this year. It's been great.

maybe if they ran on something other than ovals and shiatty street circuits

watched part of the race at barber, and was good.  then back on street circuit, watched a few laps, no thanks

sonoma and mid-ohio are the only other real tracks they run it seems


The last ten laps last week were freaking amazing.
 
2013-05-13 12:32:51 PM
Pirelli are doing exactly what the F1 management want them to.

All the tyres are up to spec. The exessive wear is down to a combination of poor design specs, poor car design and poor driving.

Don't blame Perelli, blame Bernie and co
 
2013-05-13 12:37:57 PM

Norfolking Chance: Pirelli are doing exactly what the F1 management want them to.

All the tyres are up to spec. The exessive wear is down to a combination of poor design specs, poor car design and poor driving.

Don't blame Perelli, blame Bernie and co


You may be right, but Pirelli are famous for making great, but only in the short term, tires.
 
2013-05-13 01:23:52 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: crotchgrabber: For anyone complaining about parade races, seriously, watch some indycar this year. It's been great.

maybe if they ran on something other than ovals and shiatty street circuits

watched part of the race at barber, and was good.  then back on street circuit, watched a few laps, no thanks

sonoma and mid-ohio are the only other real tracks they run it seems


I wish they would go back to Watkin's Glen. I'd make a weekend camping trip out there for that. Good time to go stock up on a bunch of wine too!
 
2013-05-13 01:29:10 PM

Guelph35: If they weren't driving to a specific tire wear they'd be driving to a fuel consumption number.


Given they don't having refueling that's not too much of an issue.
 
2013-05-13 01:39:11 PM

Norfolking Chance: The exessive wear is down to a combination of poor design specs, poor car design and poor driving.


No it's poor tires.
 
2013-05-13 01:55:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: Given they don't having refueling that's not too much of an issue.


It seemed to be an issue for Mercedes earlier this season...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-revi ew /
 
2013-05-13 02:25:51 PM

Guelph35: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-revi ew /


That's a nice case where you can figure out if it's the equipment itself or a human issue. Given that McLaren and Force India both run Mercedes engines but didn't have the problem it's down to someone at Mercedes getting the fuel mapping wrong. Or perhaps they didn't put enough fuel in the tank, nothing says a team needs to start on a completely full tank after all. The issue with the tires is no one has any idea how well they'll do until after the fact and given the number of compounds and that which two compounds are used at a race are determined by F1, it's a very different situation. Before yesterdays race it was an open question as to how many teams, including Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes would do a three stop race. That quickly turned into something they just weren't willing to gamble with.
 
2013-05-13 02:27:12 PM
Also Pirelli has doubled down on the derp becuase of course the only alternative to teams making lots of stops and holding back on their cars lap after lap is processions http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-pirelli-can-bring-back-p r ocessions-165556987.html
 
2013-05-13 02:31:00 PM

WhyteRaven74: Also Pirelli has doubled down on the derp becuase of course the only alternative to teams making lots of stops and holding back on their cars lap after lap is processions http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-pirelli-can-bring-back-p r ocessions-165556987.html


Pirelli is acting to the instructions Bernie gave them.

Also, they are right.  With tires to support a one or two stop race, who beats Vettel?
 
2013-05-13 02:38:29 PM

PowerSlacker: WhyteRaven74: Also Pirelli has doubled down on the derp becuase of course the only alternative to teams making lots of stops and holding back on their cars lap after lap is processions http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-pirelli-can-bring-back-p r ocessions-165556987.html

Pirelli is acting to the instructions Bernie gave them.

Also, they are right.  With tires to support a one or two stop race, who beats Vettel?


Given the same car. Hamilton, Alonso, and Kimi for starters.
 
2013-05-13 02:45:14 PM

PowerSlacker: With tires to support a one or two stop race, who beats Vettel?


There are two possible answers there, one is to say well we'd have to have such a race to find out, Ferrari certainly looks capable, McLaren and Mercedes look like they might be able to do it if they sort their cars out a bit. Hell even Renault looks like they have a chance at it. Keep in mind straight line speed isn't Red Bull's strong suit, by design, so at track where going fast is at a premium, Spain is one such track, the idea that Red Bull or more specifically Vettel could just walk away with it is a bit silly. The other answer, well if the other teams can't keep up with Red Bull, then that's their own problem, why should they look to dubious tires to even things out? It's not like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes don't have the talent or budgets to get things worked out and F1 allows parts to be changed during the season, like new wing configurations etc.

And it's not like Red Bull is anything like Williams or McLaren of the late 80s and early 90s. There's really no chance of them being so far ahead of everyone that they have no real shot at competing. For one the engine supply rules are different. Back in the day Williams and McLaren could rely on being the only teams with their particular engine. Today, Red Bull is one of four teams running the Renault engine and that engine is the same for all teams that use it, no having a "works" engine that is the latest and greatest for one team and a "customer" engine that's one revision behind for others. Given what an issue horsepower is in F1, mandating that engine suppliers have to sell the same engine to everyone does a lot to even things out. It's part of why Lotus is doing so well, they have the Renault engine. Same as Red Bull. The other two teams are Williams and Caterham, which makes Williams' issues all the more disconcerting since they're obviously not wanting for good engines.
 
2013-05-13 02:46:55 PM

WhyteRaven74: . Hell even Renault looks like they have a chance at it


that would be Lotus, which has the Renault engine.
 
2013-05-13 03:06:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: OtherLittleGuy: /Clarkson

Is there really any other option?


I read it in May's voice.
 
2013-05-13 03:07:15 PM
I have Pirellis on my 2005 Scion xB
 
2013-05-13 03:24:47 PM

WhyteRaven74: Also Pirelli has doubled down on the derp becuase of course the only alternative to teams making lots of stops and holding back on their cars lap after lap is processions http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-pirelli-can-bring-back-p r ocessions-165556987.html


Well that's nice.  "You want Red Bull to win?  Ha-HA, not a chance, we were told to make crappy tyres and that's what we'll do.  Ha-HA!"
 
2013-05-13 03:26:56 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: how about not pulling numbers out of your ass mr. button (and subby taking them as true)

race fastest laps

f1: 1:26.217
gp2: 1:33.337

quali times

f1: 1:20.718
gp2: 1:28.706

seems like f1 times were just fine


Hey, it's only an EIGHT farkING SECOND DIFFERENCE, that's pretty close in racing terms, right?

/no
 
2013-05-13 03:27:23 PM

Raging Whore Moans: I have Pirellis on my 2005 Scion xB


Watching this season of F1 has taught me a few things:
1) Never buy Pirelli tires (or tyres if you will.)
2) Never buy a Mercedes.
3) Buy a Husqvarna lawn mower, they look pretty cool.
4) Get rich and buy a Rolex!
 
2013-05-13 03:54:33 PM

poughdrew: Raging Whore Moans: I have Pirellis on my 2005 Scion xB

Watching this season of F1 has taught me a few things:
1) Never buy Pirelli tires (or tyres if you will.)
2) Never buy a Mercedes.
3) Buy a Husqvarna lawn mower, they look pretty cool.
4) Get rich and buy a Rolex!


FWIW, Rolex are trashy.
 
2013-05-13 03:58:27 PM

WhyteRaven74: PowerSlacker: With tires to support a one or two stop race, who beats Vettel?

There are two possible answers there, one is to say well we'd have to have such a race to find out, Ferrari certainly looks capable, McLaren and Mercedes look like they might be able to do it if they sort their cars out a bit. Hell even Renault looks like they have a chance at it. Keep in mind straight line speed isn't Red Bull's strong suit, by design, so at track where going fast is at a premium, Spain is one such track, the idea that Red Bull or more specifically Vettel could just walk away with it is a bit silly. The other answer, well if the other teams can't keep up with Red Bull, then that's their own problem, why should they look to dubious tires to even things out? It's not like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes don't have the talent or budgets to get things worked out and F1 allows parts to be changed during the season, like new wing configurations etc.

And it's not like Red Bull is anything like Williams or McLaren of the late 80s and early 90s. There's really no chance of them being so far ahead of everyone that they have no real shot at competing. For one the engine supply rules are different. Back in the day Williams and McLaren could rely on being the only teams with their particular engine. Today, Red Bull is one of four teams running the Renault engine and that engine is the same for all teams that use it, no having a "works" engine that is the latest and greatest for one team and a "customer" engine that's one revision behind for others. Given what an issue horsepower is in F1, mandating that engine suppliers have to sell the same engine to everyone does a lot to even things out. It's part of why Lotus is doing so well, they have the Renault engine. Same as Red Bull. The other two teams are Williams and Caterham, which makes Williams' issues all the more disconcerting since they're obviously not wanting for good engines.


Red Bull has won the last three drivers' and constructors' championships - that's going to distort people's perception of how competitive the sport is.  And while in each individual race, there may be excitement, the cost of the sport has meant that team sponsorships (and therefore team wins) are more important than the results in an individual race.  We're seeing strategic driving, team orders from everyone - and that's because of the cost of the sport.  The engines are far more standardized because not every team wants to or can afford to develop their own engines.

But then there's the monkey wrench of how ridiculous Red Bull's aerodynamics have been in recent years.  They're just as good as Ferrari at stretching the rules so far they find new loopholes (hence the "you can't use exhaust as downforce" rule).  That sort of imbalance in favor of one team?  There are two solutions to the problem.  One involves time travel and sterilizing Herman Tilke's great-grandparents.  The other involves cloning and a provision in the Concorde Agreement allowing each team possession of an Adrian Newey.  Time travel and cloning, I think is feasible - getting everyone to share fairly in the Concorde Agreement, on the other hand, is complete science fiction.

Or they could introduce an all new engine and flip the whole table.  But remember what happened the last time they did a major overhaul of the engine specs?  Ross Braun was in charge of Ferrari.  So my money's on people who biatched about McLaren, then Ferrari, and now Red Bull will in four years' time be gnashing teeth over the dominance of Mercedes.
 
2013-05-13 04:22:58 PM
.

UNC_Samurai: We're seeing strategic driving, team orders from everyone - and that's because of the cost of the sport.


Team orders were illegal for a time, only when Ferrari got caught giving them was the rule changed back. It would be nice if they were made illegal again.
 
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