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(SanDiegoUnionTribune)   Trauma surgeon concludes that Stonewall Jackson died from pneumonia in 1863. And you thought your HMO results took a long time in coming back   (utsandiego.com) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, HMOs, Stonewall Jackson, trauma surgeon, medical complications, Virginia Military Institute, pneumonia, Union Army, concierge medicine  
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908 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 May 2013 at 5:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-13 05:52:14 AM
R.I.P Stonewall Jackson

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-13 06:01:18 AM
Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.
 
2013-05-13 06:24:08 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.


The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia
 
2013-05-13 07:02:51 AM
He had a pretty good career for a zombie.

www.recordsale.de
 
2013-05-13 07:18:16 AM

GameSprocket: He had a pretty good career for a zombie.


I never knew all that time ABBA was just doing a cover.
 
2013-05-13 08:06:19 AM
So doctor concludes that the original diagnosis by the treating physician, who had the only known notes on the subject, is correct?

I am SHOCKED!
 
2013-05-13 08:08:07 AM

AtlanticCoast63: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia


I've been watching Ken Burn's The Civil War, and they said that as well.
 
2013-05-13 09:23:12 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.


In my screenplay I ask "what if he didn't?"
 
2013-05-13 09:41:34 AM
He died from being a traitor to his country.
 
2013-05-13 09:52:00 AM

AtlanticCoast63: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia


Until the pneumonia caught up with him, they were actually thinking he was making a rapid recovery.  The stump was healing nicely, he was alert, lucid, and seemed in good spirits.  His doctors were predicting an early return to duty.  Most of the contemporary accounts all seem to agree on that.  Then he caught pneumonia, worsened rapidly, and died.  I've always wondered how Gettysburg would have played out with Jackson in charge of 3rd Corps, rather than the newly promoted Hill.
 
2013-05-13 09:56:36 AM
A slow and ironic death, fit for a traitor.
 
2013-05-13 10:17:21 AM
But who infected him with pneumonia? Who would have the means, motive, and opportunity?
 
2013-05-13 10:55:30 AM
Oh, well played,  subby. I chuckled loudly enough that the guy next to me in the coffee shop edged away from me a little.
 
2013-05-13 11:34:31 AM

Fano: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

In my screenplay I ask "what if he didn't?"


Wildcat.  Rowr.
 
2013-05-13 11:50:01 AM
Q: What if Stonewall Jackson were thrown back in time to command a squadron of cavalry on the deck of a U.S. supercarrier 45 minutes after the attack on Pearl Harbor?

A: This is why they send your manuscripts back unopened.

Q: It is not!  I'm gonna report you for insults/taunts!

A: Go right ahead, little man, go right ahead.
 
2013-05-13 12:00:20 PM

Mega Steve: But who infected him with pneumonia? Who would have the means, motive, and opportunity?


media.tumblr.com
That's right, you guessed it...Frank Stallone!
 
2013-05-13 12:07:32 PM
I find this story timely and relevant.
 
2013-05-13 01:00:36 PM
...Just as we would not send any of our soldiers to march in other states, and tyrannize other people... so will we never allow the armies of others to march into our states and tyrannize our people.
 
2013-05-13 01:16:00 PM
This shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone, as roughly two-thirds of the deaths in the Civil War were attributable to disease...
 
2013-05-13 01:58:14 PM

devildog123: AtlanticCoast63: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia

Until the pneumonia caught up with him, they were actually thinking he was making a rapid recovery.  The stump was healing nicely, he was alert, lucid, and seemed in good spirits.  His doctors were predicting an early return to duty.  Most of the contemporary accounts all seem to agree on that.  Then he caught pneumonia, worsened rapidly, and died.  I've always wondered how Gettysburg would have played out with Jackson in charge of 3rd Corps, rather than the newly promoted Hill.


I have some belief that if Jackson had been there, Gettysburg largely wouldn't have happened.
 
2013-05-13 02:50:05 PM
Scholars have long questioned whether it was an infection of the wounds or pneumonia of the lungs that killed Jackson...

FTFTFA

Either way, the microbes won.
 
2013-05-13 03:53:16 PM

Spade: I have some belief that if Jackson had been there, Gettysburg largely wouldn't have happened.


There's a lot of interesting 'what ifs' of the Civil War that's for sure.
 
2013-05-13 03:59:58 PM

Spade: devildog123: AtlanticCoast63: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia

Until the pneumonia caught up with him, they were actually thinking he was making a rapid recovery.  The stump was healing nicely, he was alert, lucid, and seemed in good spirits.  His doctors were predicting an early return to duty.  Most of the contemporary accounts all seem to agree on that.  Then he caught pneumonia, worsened rapidly, and died.  I've always wondered how Gettysburg would have played out with Jackson in charge of 3rd Corps, rather than the newly promoted Hill.

I have some belief that if Jackson had been there, Gettysburg largely wouldn't have happened.


General consensus among most historians is, Jackson knew enough about avoid frontal assaults on entrenched enemy positions and Lee had enough respect for Jackson that the fight as we know it at Gettysburg would likely never have happened. 

However, simple logistics says that with or without him, the Army of Northern Virginia would likely have not been able to advance more than about 100 miles past its terminal railhead. So presuppose he was there. Here's what likely would have happened:

1, The ANV marches north. Heavy Union cavalry activity minimizes whatever advantage the somewhat friendly population of Maryland might have provided. The effect of this will be worsened by  Jeb Stuart going off on his showboating raids.

2. Instead of fighting the Army of the Potomac at Gettysburg, Lee & Jackson would have screened the Army of the Potomac and moved southeast, threatening Baltimore and DC simultaneously. Meade would give chase, but he's new, so AotP moves ineffectually.

3. Jackson uses his foot cavalry to great effect, wreaking havoc on Union infrastructure and causing panic everywhere from DC to NYC.

4. At some point, there's a pitched battle outside of DC/Baltimore. At a loose guess based on roads and rivers, somewhere in the area of Winchester seems likely, with Reisters and Fredericktown being possible alternates:

5. The battle would be a solid southern victory. ANV would be entrenched and on the high ground of their choosing. AotP would be attacking. It would be an absolute bloodbath, probably worse than Antietam, and very possibly more lopsided than Fredericksburg.

6. But Lee would have to retreat anyway. He would probably have lost 1/3 - 1/4 of his army, AotP would be battered but intact (50% of AotP = 150% ANV), and DC and Baltimore would still be impregnably ringed by fortresses and other armies. Plus, troops from all over the north would be coming in by train, and word of the defeat at Vicksburg would have just hit Richmond. Davis would be screaming for Lee to come home before he got trapped.

7. Grant comes over to take over AotP anyway. The Union wins anyway. It's just bloodier and takes maybe a year longer. 

Jackson was a skilled tactician and an oddly effective leader of men. He wasn't a profound strategist, and he wasn't a politician. His survival could have prolonged the war a bit, and would likely have provided at least one more Chancellorsville-esque victory for students of military history to marvel over. But not even he had a chance of overcoming the sheer material and manpower advantages held by the north.
 
2013-05-13 04:08:53 PM
Let's try that map again, since it got eaten by the size filter:

img51.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-13 05:28:25 PM

Spade: devildog123: AtlanticCoast63: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Really because I thought it was the freaking bullet.

The surgeons took Jackson's arm off within hours of the injury, and there was a lot of hope he'd survive.  There was no obvious sign of infection (or at least none the docs ever mentioned) and given the state of medical knowledge at the time, not catching the start of pneumonia was understandable, if tragic.  But 80 years before antibiotics, pneumonia was pretty much a death sentence.

/Researched this 8 years ago and the conventional wisdom then was pneumonia

Until the pneumonia caught up with him, they were actually thinking he was making a rapid recovery.  The stump was healing nicely, he was alert, lucid, and seemed in good spirits.  His doctors were predicting an early return to duty.  Most of the contemporary accounts all seem to agree on that.  Then he caught pneumonia, worsened rapidly, and died.  I've always wondered how Gettysburg would have played out with Jackson in charge of 3rd Corps, rather than the newly promoted Hill.

I have some belief that if Jackson had been there, Gettysburg largely wouldn't have happened.


Not that it would turn the tide. The Confederacy was to badly outnumbered and outsupplied. Their only chance was a British/French intervention.

That may have been a near thing early on. Intervention would have been a very serious undertaking for even those countries but the prize was quite large too. Divide what is soon to be a rival, secure Canada, end the Monroe doctrine, etc.

But by 1863 the emancipation proclamation has won support for the union amongst the British working class and Russia has pretty explicitly taken the unions side. A deeply unpopular two front war against the US and Russia is all kinds of Not Happening.

Left alone, the Confederacy is just too starved of men and resources no matter how good their commanders are.
 
2013-05-13 09:11:03 PM
I read this article while holding one arm in the air, and eating a lime with the other.
 
2013-05-14 01:43:25 AM
 Every farking day I've wondered if that's the way he died, now I know. I now have some closure, let's party!
 
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