If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Huffington Post)   Not News: Students protest tuition increase. News: They take over president's office Fark: Tuition increase is $19,000   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 129
    More: PSA, Cooper Union, tuition  
•       •       •

15088 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2013 at 1:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



129 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-05-13 12:54:16 AM
And the increase doesn't even apply to the students protesting.
 
2013-05-13 01:04:39 AM

Krieghund: And the increase doesn't even apply to the students protesting.


Doesn't mean they shouldn't protest the tuition hike. In fact, that's actually related to why they're protesting:

"All the people upstairs and doing these sorts of actions to keep this school free -- we're not fighting for ourselves," senior Aaron Graham told the Village Voice. "We're fighting for future students because we're all already guaranteed the scholarship we've been given."
 
2013-05-13 01:09:50 AM
So let me get this straight, they have been getting this for free for a long time and now are mad that the next group of students, who can afford it according to the article, might have to actually pay for it?
 
2013-05-13 01:19:14 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Gutter is a tool!
 
2013-05-13 01:20:39 AM
Starting in the fall of 2014, new students with the ability to pay will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester. Current students won't be affected.

The writing has me confused as to whether this $19K is the full tuition or half; that aside, only students who can afford it will pay.
 
2013-05-13 01:21:19 AM
I'm just curious what kind of alternative solution is being proposed by the protesting students.

How come all I'm hearing is the sound of crickets?

That's what I thought... protestors without an answer.
 
2013-05-13 01:24:11 AM
Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.
 
2013-05-13 01:24:44 AM
It's cute how the students think college is about them.
 
2013-05-13 01:24:51 AM
They're locking the barn door after the horse has left.

Cooper Union financially leveraged themselves into this position years ago. The money simply isn't there, and a protest won't change that. Short of a huge donation to the endowment, I doubt the situation will change.
 
2013-05-13 01:25:11 AM

King Something: Doesn't mean they shouldn't protest the tuition hike. In fact, that's actually related to why they're protesting:


Please read my original comment in a tone of admiration. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.
 
2013-05-13 01:25:42 AM
Protest fail! 19k is a lot yeah, but nothing compared to what a lot of schools are charging.

And the school said up front that's only half the full cost, so they actually sound like they're being reasonable, since they're hurting for money.

Stupid whiny kids, get of their lawn.
 
2013-05-13 01:25:45 AM

remus: So let me get this straight, they have been getting this for free for a long time and now are mad that the next group of students, who can afford it according to the article, might have to actually pay for it?


I sort-of understand why people delegitimize protesters as greedy when those protesters have a financial stake in the outcome. However, I will never understand why people delegitimize protesters for the apparent crime of not being motivated by personal monetary gain.

A university that only accepts students it is comfortable offering full-ride scholarships to--an institution that relies on its endowment to provide education without financial burden--is a remarkable thing. Wall-street mismanagement has ended it. For students who have a personal emotional stake in their alma mater, that regrettable betrayal of the university's core principles is clearly worth raising a fuss over.
 
2013-05-13 01:30:40 AM

randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.


except that it frequently does
 
2013-05-13 01:34:40 AM
Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.
 
2013-05-13 01:35:44 AM

ds394: I'm just curious what kind of alternative solution is being proposed by the protesting students.

How come all I'm hearing is the sound of crickets?

That's what I thought... protestors without an answer.


Step one: irresponsible short-sighted management.

Step two: a fiscal catastrophe necessitating in bailouts or golden parachutes for the rich, and massive cuts to services or pension/wage/benefit cuts for everyone else.

Step three: protests over the fact that, yet again, rich dudes farked up and now everyone else has to make sacrifices on their behalf.

Step four: protests ignored. It's too late to fix this particular crisis. The horses has left the barn. The money is spent, the bills are due, and you've just got to tighten our belts. Goddamned whiners is what they are.

Step five: Step one.
 
2013-05-13 01:37:20 AM
I broke the school.
 
2013-05-13 01:37:41 AM
If the school can no longer provide an education at a price students can afford why don't they just go out of business?
 
2013-05-13 01:39:09 AM

libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.


They are. Big time. Both of them. Even before Obamacare healthcare was subsidized (Medicare/Medicaid), and student loans can be either subsidized or unsubsidized, but in either case at ages 18-22 you will NEVER get a better interest rate on a loan than you will with government money. That government money has to come from somewhere.
 
2013-05-13 01:39:32 AM

Ned Stark: randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.

except that it frequently does


When I was in college, I had several professors say that you could get whatever you wanted as long as the school continued to get your money and you yelled loud enough.
 
2013-05-13 01:40:33 AM

Ned Stark: randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.

except that it frequently does


I'm going to have to go with randomjsa on this one... if anyone knows tantrums, it's him
 
2013-05-13 01:42:21 AM

libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.


They are. And since the goals set have no upper limit we can keep expecting them to get more expensive.
 
2013-05-13 01:46:43 AM

Krieghund: King Something: Doesn't mean they shouldn't protest the tuition hike. In fact, that's actually related to why they're protesting:

Please read my original comment in a tone of admiration. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.


Same here. Good on them for not having the "I got mine, fark you" attitude.


Adolf Oliver Nipples: libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.

They are. Big time. Both of them. Even before Obamacare healthcare was subsidized (Medicare/Medicaid), and student loans can be either subsidized or unsubsidized, but in either case at ages 18-22 you will NEVER get a better interest rate on a loan than you will with government money.


Unless you're a bank.
 
2013-05-13 01:47:53 AM

Mrbogey: libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.

They are. And since the goals set have no upper limit we can keep expecting them to get more expensive.


If only we had a government that was willing to use its position as a semi-monopsonist buyer to negotiate the prices it pays.

But that is socialism.
 
2013-05-13 01:48:43 AM
Elitist people problems.................
 
2013-05-13 01:53:08 AM
College students always thing they can change the world.... until they are hit with the sledgehammer of reality.
 
2013-05-13 01:53:19 AM
$19,000?  If you take off the 1 and a 0, that takes me back to the way before when one of my roommates was complaining that tuition had just gone up to $900/quarter.

/off the lawn!
 
2013-05-13 01:56:35 AM
19k a semester? Don't think I've paid that, total, and I'm almost through a Master's...
 
2013-05-13 02:03:36 AM

libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.


Medicare and Medicaid make up around 20% of the federal budget, and education is more or less locally driven.  California spends around 40% of its budget on education(k-12 and higher ed) and 25% of its budget on medical services, which makes up about 2/3 of the state annual budget.  I don't think this is income from investments or payments for products delivered/services rendered.  Pretty sure it's funded from tax income and debt(future tax income).
 
2013-05-13 02:17:26 AM
If $19k is not a drop in the bucket to you, then you come from a stupid loser family anyway. And in that case, you aren't college material AT ALL.
 
2013-05-13 02:20:54 AM
 
2013-05-13 02:24:27 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Ned Stark: randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.

except that it frequently does

I'm going to have to go with randomjsa on this one... if anyone knows tantrums, it's him
24.media.tumblr.com

 
2013-05-13 02:49:28 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html


Without clicking that link I can tell you that since I see the word business in there this will be how investments were used incorrectly and how the free market should be trusted.
 
2013-05-13 02:52:33 AM

SevenizGud: If $19k is not a drop in the bucket to you, then you come from a stupid loser family anyway. And in that case, you aren't college material AT ALL.


thelastofthemillenniums.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-13 03:01:23 AM

libranoelrose: BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html

Without clicking that link I can tell you that since I see the word business in there this will be how investments were used incorrectly and how the free market should be trusted.


Used up all your free NYT articles for this month already?
 
2013-05-13 03:02:12 AM

SevenizGud: If $19k is not a drop in the bucket to you, then you come from a stupid loser family anyway. And in that case, you aren't college material AT ALL.


I wish you were more transparent more often.
 
2013-05-13 03:03:35 AM

BarkingUnicorn: libranoelrose: BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html

Without clicking that link I can tell you that since I see the word business in there this will be how investments were used incorrectly and how the free market should be trusted.

Used up all your free NYT articles for this month already?


haha, nope

i think it is crazy that people still don't block sites from tracking them
 
2013-05-13 03:13:39 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html


So here's the lesson for these kids: when the rich and powerful screws up, there is no accountability and no one will be held responsible, and it is up to everyone at the bottom (you) to pay the price. If you dare complain, you are afraid of hard work and is everything that is wrong with America.

What a joke; a fading republic.
 
2013-05-13 03:18:33 AM
$19,000 a semester? Do the give you a 24 carat gold diploma after you finish?

/ knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

/ I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business
 
2013-05-13 03:23:21 AM

libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.


No.  They should get good grades in HS that can be applied to private grants and work full time while taking more than 18 credit hours a semester in college like I did.  I worked/studied my ass off and still had enough time to drink and smoke dope like a pro...but I had this weird condition called motivation that seems to be scarce among the "I want it now" Veruca Salt generation.that passes for students these days.

/Second Bachelors earned in '04
//Get off my worked for lawn
 
2013-05-13 03:31:38 AM
At this point, only a certain percentage of colleges even give you a positive ROI after 30 years: http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2013

/Alum of #70
 
2013-05-13 03:41:32 AM

iheartscotch: $19,000 a semester? Do the give you a 24 carat gold diploma after you finish?

/ knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

/ I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business


That is not particularly high. The average 4-year college degree now costs $33,000 per year, while the market value of having a B.A. drops year to year, and entry-level wages are lower in real terms than at any point in the past half-century.

Of course, all this is probably just because spoiled, elitist Millennials are too lazy to figure out how to bootstrap.
 
2013-05-13 03:48:43 AM

Virtuoso80: At this point, only a certain percentage of colleges even give you a positive ROI after 30 years: http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2013

/Alum of #70


Well, then let's tell our kids to just shoot for that high school diploma, amirite? After all, employers don't really want to pay college grad wages anyway. By skipping college, the kids can get out into the workforce four years earlier.
 
2013-05-13 04:21:03 AM

SevenizGud: If $19k is not a drop in the bucket to you, then you come from a stupid loser family anyway. And in that case, you aren't college material AT ALL.


9/10  Keep up the good work.
 
2013-05-13 04:27:23 AM

ypsifly: .but I had this weird condition called motivation that seems to be scarce among the "I want it now" Veruca Salt generation.that passes for students these days.


in the case of Cooper Union you have students that could go to literally any college they want. It's a very very very selective college when it comes to admissions. The people who go there are far from lazy or lacking motivation.
 
2013-05-13 04:48:24 AM

ypsifly: libranoelrose: Health care and education should be subsidized by taxes.

No.  They should get good grades in HS that can be applied to private grants and work full time while taking more than 18 credit hours a semester in college like I did.  I worked/studied my ass off and still had enough time to drink and smoke dope like a pro...but I had this weird condition called motivation that seems to be scarce among the "I want it now" Veruca Salt generation.that passes for students these days.

/Second Bachelors earned in '04
//Get off my worked for lawn


But have you ever ridden a Buffalo?
 
2013-05-13 04:55:15 AM

sbutler: They're locking the barn door after the horse has left.

Cooper Union financially leveraged themselves into this position years ago. The money simply isn't there, and a protest won't change that. Short of a huge donation to the endowment, I doubt the situation will change.


Don't know about Cooper, but there's a LOT of colleges in trouble...despite tuition rising faster than inflation in many cases.

From friends in academia, I know THEY aren't getting raises...but there's more and more administrators and alumni development officers every budget cycle, with fancier offices.  The hilariously tragic ones are where the alumni fundraising is losing money on overhead, and management decides the solution is to hire MORE fundraisers.

Even a college kid should be able to figure that one out :)

Seems to be an iron law of organizations...those doing the actual work eventually lose out to those with time to focus on empire-building.
 
2013-05-13 05:35:10 AM

dj_bigbird: It's cute how the students think college is about them.


What does this even mean?
 
2013-05-13 05:49:55 AM
you're talking to gas pumpers and pizza delivery guys, who are of course going to be the jealous type that want everyone else to work/pay through college and end up owing ~35k for a community college experience.
The whole point of cooper union was the free scholarship and that they were extremely selective.  Sure they have a 12 million dollar shortfall, but i read somewhere that their president makes 750k which is more than double the norm.  So the problem is really a self created one.  Going from 0 tuition to 19k is a huge jump.  I wonder how much all the upper admissions executives make at that school.  I'm fairly sure by eliminating most of those positions you could probably save a few million a year.  Those protesters also have proposals for how to make up that deficit.
 
2013-05-13 05:55:34 AM

iheartscotch: / knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.


I have no idea why people are doing photography degrees. The main reason for doing a degree is to have a piece of paper that says you have knowledge in something. In photography, you just show people your photos. That's it.

And most of the theory can be learnt in a few months.

I know a guy who recently went into industrial photography. He'd been a very good amateur and decided it was what he wanted to do. He got kitted out with a reasonable camera (but only a £1500 one) and then did a load of courses, workshops and masterclasses.

A school friend of mine is a pro sports photographer. No qualifications in it.
 
2013-05-13 06:02:28 AM
FTFA: "will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester"

Even so, it's still over 9000.
 
2013-05-13 06:07:15 AM

Virtuoso80: At this point, only a certain percentage of colleges even give you a positive ROI after 30 years: http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2013

/Alum of #70


Uh, what?  It looks like all but a handful (30 ish?) have positive ROI over 30 years with aid.  And it looks like all but about 90 school beat 3% annual inflation too.  Plus the methodology and sample size seem sketchy.

/#13
 
2013-05-13 06:08:23 AM
What I am a bit confused about is how are they going to determine if you fall into the "able to pay group"?
Is it based on income? Why aren't college students treated as Independant adults?
 
2013-05-13 06:13:08 AM

Hermit Tard: What I am a bit confused about is how are they going to determine if you fall into the "able to pay group"?
Is it based on income? Why aren't college students treated as Independant adults?


Sorry, should read "is it based on parents income?"

Posting from a phone sucks
 
2013-05-13 06:25:04 AM

thamike: dj_bigbird: It's cute how the students think college is about them.

What does this even mean?


it's about making a profit? Geeez, go get educated or something
 
2013-05-13 06:59:16 AM

Ned Stark: randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.

except that it frequently does


No, it doesn't. The school is massively in debt. That's reality. They have to make a choice, no matter how tough a call it might be, that's how life works. Their tantrum won't make the debt magically vanish no matter how long they stand around in an office.

That's life and life is unfair.

Either the school has to start charging tuition or it becomes insolvent and closes its doors. Which would you prefer? Choose carefully because remember, a bunch of kids who don't have to choose are going to come sit in your office if they don't like your choice.
 
2013-05-13 07:17:31 AM

PunGent: sbutler: They're locking the barn door after the horse has left.

Cooper Union financially leveraged themselves into this position years ago. The money simply isn't there, and a protest won't change that. Short of a huge donation to the endowment, I doubt the situation will change.

Don't know about Cooper, but there's a LOT of colleges in trouble...despite tuition rising faster than inflation in many cases.

From friends in academia, I know THEY aren't getting raises...but there's more and more administrators and alumni development officers every budget cycle, with fancier offices.  The hilariously tragic ones are where the alumni fundraising is losing money on overhead, and management decides the solution is to hire MORE fundraisers.

Even a college kid should be able to figure that one out :)

Seems to be an iron law of organizations...those doing the actual work eventually lose out to those with time to focus on empire-building.


That's what happens when one uses the government as a business model.
 
2013-05-13 07:39:07 AM

pkjun: iheartscotch: $19,000 a semester? Do the give you a 24 carat gold diploma after you finish?

/ knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

/ I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business

That is not particularly high. The average 4-year college degree now costs $33,000 per year, while the market value of having a B.A. drops year to year, and entry-level wages are lower in real terms than at any point in the past half-century.

Of course, all this is probably just because spoiled, elitist Millennials are too lazy to figure out how to bootstrap.


You know how I know you don't have a degree in math, engineering, or accounting?
 
2013-05-13 07:56:12 AM
As someone who worked his ass off to pay for college, I'm getting a kick out of these responses.
 
2013-05-13 08:01:37 AM

ultraholland: Starting in the fall of 2014, new students with the ability to pay will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester. Current students won't be affected.

The writing has me confused as to whether this $19K is the full tuition or half; that aside, only students who can afford it will pay.


Another article explains it better. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/cooper-union-tuition_n_31409 6 8.html

Tuition has previously and will continue to be  $19k a semester. All students received 100% scholarships (for budgetary reasons making it simply free is difficult). In 2014 new students will only be getting a 50% scholarship, and they will need to pay 9.5k a semester or 19k a year.
 
2013-05-13 08:01:57 AM
Rice University used to be free too. So suck on it, Cooper Unioners. Suck on it long and hard.
 
2013-05-13 08:09:06 AM

jedikinkoid: FTFA: "will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester"

Even so, it's still over 9000.


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-13 08:11:41 AM
Universities aren't about education.  Hospitals aren't about medicine.  Corporations aren't about products or services.  They're about moving money around, preferably in their direction.
 
2013-05-13 08:17:53 AM
Meanwhile university presidents are retiring with a MILLION A YEAR.
Oh and $19K IS a lot, you damn brats.

/protested $600 increase
 
2013-05-13 08:19:17 AM
randomjsa:

No, it doesn't. The school is massively in debt. That's reality. They have to make a choice, no matter how tough a call it might be, that's how life works. Their tantrum won't make the debt magically vanish no matter how long they stand around in an office.

The school is massively in debt because it was poorly managed. And not by the SGA.

That's life and life is unfair.

Life is unfair because it's random. People make choices. There is no reason for PEOPLE to be unfair, except that they are selfish coonts. Someone who uses the cliche "life is unfair" has dropped all pretense of being a decent human being and just wants to shiat all over everyone else.

Either the school has to start charging tuition or it becomes insolvent and closes its doors. Which would you prefer? Choose carefully because remember, a bunch of kids who don't have to choose are going to come sit in your office if they don't like your choice.

I would prefer they listen to the concerns and suggestions of the protesters whom the school has, by accepting them as students, endorsed as the best and brightest of their generation. I would prefer if they looked at alternatives like reducing redundant staff members and exorbitant administration paychecks. I would prefer that the school shuts down entirely, if that is what is necessary to stop the trend of passing the buck to the consumer/victim.

And I wouldn't object if you were to choke on your stupid-ass tongue.
 
2013-05-13 08:21:44 AM
Seems relevent:

Salaries of public college chiefs rise, median tops $400,000

Enjoy paying off your student loans suckers.
 
2013-05-13 08:29:28 AM

MindStalker: jedikinkoid: FTFA: "will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester"

Even so, it's still over 9000.


Thank you, I was coming here to post that.
 
2013-05-13 08:35:36 AM

iheartscotch: $19,000 a semester? Do the give you a 24 carat gold diploma after you finish?

/ knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

/ I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business



10 worst majors and Likelihood of working retail
No. 10: English- 1.4 times average

No. 9: Sociology-1.4 times average

No. 8: Drama and theater arts-2.1 times average

No. 7: Liberal arts-1.8 times average

No. 6: Studio arts-2.3 times average

No. 5: Graphic design-0.6 times average

No. 4: Philosophy and religious studies-2.0 times average

No. 3: Film and photography-2.6 times average

No. 2: Fine arts-1.8 times average

No. 1: Anthropology-2.1 times average
 
2013-05-13 08:41:27 AM

Spanky McStupid: PunGent: sbutler: They're locking the barn door after the horse has left.

Cooper Union financially leveraged themselves into this position years ago. The money simply isn't there, and a protest won't change that. Short of a huge donation to the endowment, I doubt the situation will change.

Don't know about Cooper, but there's a LOT of colleges in trouble...despite tuition rising faster than inflation in many cases.

From friends in academia, I know THEY aren't getting raises...but there's more and more administrators and alumni development officers every budget cycle, with fancier offices.  The hilariously tragic ones are where the alumni fundraising is losing money on overhead, and management decides the solution is to hire MORE fundraisers.

Even a college kid should be able to figure that one out :)

Seems to be an iron law of organizations...those doing the actual work eventually lose out to those with time to focus on empire-building.

That's what happens when one uses the government as a business model.


Never worked in a corporation?

Buddy of mine just got out of a private sector situation where one of the VPs spent the last two years...and nearly ten million dollars...trashing the old computer system everyone relied on and replacing it with one his pet consultants built from scratch.

Naturally, it doesn't work as well, has fewer features and more bugs, and they've had to let people go to pay for it, and work the remaining ones harder to make up for the inefficiency.

The veep-tard, naturally, got promoted.  My buddy is glad to be out of there...the company is on a trajectory for bankruptcy inside of three years.
 
2013-05-13 08:43:36 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html


"Even so, hedge funds couldn't solve the college's dire financial problems, and many hedge funds have been far more successful at lining the pockets of their managers than beating market averages."

Hey!  you can't criticize the all-knowing private sector!
 
2013-05-13 08:48:23 AM

PunGent: Buddy of mine just got out of a private sector situation where one of the VPs spent the last two years...and nearly ten million dollars...trashing the old computer system everyone relied on and replacing it with one his pet consultants built from scratch.

Naturally, it doesn't work as well, has fewer features and more bugs, and they've had to let people go to pay for it, and work the remaining ones harder to make up for the inefficiency.


You know how, like, you'd be sitting in a bar hanging out, listening to the conversations and some guy would say "Well, you know, it's not what you know, it's who you blow"?  And you'd chuckle and say, internally. "Well, yeah, but not -really-"?  Well, yeah.  It is.  And fatassed, pigsh*t thick, well connected dullards are regularly rewarded for taking a big fat dump on stuff they don't understand because their cronies made a buck off of it.  And until we find a way to start throwing these dolts and their patrons out of the nearest 30th floor  window, college is pretty much a piss up a rope, regardless of your degree.
 
2013-05-13 08:53:59 AM
Here's how it works.

Everybody figured out that, since the Fed is printing IOUS, the only way to make money is to print your own.  Gift cards, coupons, reward cards, rebates, hedge funds, investment plans...  It's all a bookie joint.

Here's the beauty of it.  Once all this money is in YOUR hands, you put it into slush funds that create interest, rake the interest off and just set the flow up so that ALL money goes OUT three weeks faster than it comes IN.  Immediate collection of the principal, slow payout, keep the interest.

Colleges, hospitals, banks, PayPal, damn near any web service or payout platform are all in the business of collecting ever increasing fees and sitting on them long enough to collect simple interest and skimming that off the top while making sure that disbursements take ages to process.  You now have an MBA.  Blow the tuition money on a nice car.  Or they will.
 
2013-05-13 09:09:20 AM
Three weeks SLOWER, sorry.
 
2013-05-13 09:11:58 AM

remus: So let me get this straight, they have been getting this for free for a long time and now are mad that the next group of students, who can afford it according to the article, might have to actually pay for it?


We want our free stuff! It's a right!
 
2013-05-13 09:14:40 AM

bmihura: We want our free stuff! It's a right!


No, no.  It's YOUR right.  Not those other  motherf*ckers.  And as long as everybody else is getting screwed over as badly as you, all is well with the world.  That's how power rolls, yo.  Keep the plebes barking at each other, not you.  Cause, hey, as long as everybody gets the same sh*tty deal, life is fair!  See?
 
2013-05-13 09:19:29 AM

sbutler: They're locking the barn door after the horse has left.

Cooper Union financially leveraged themselves into this position years ago. The money simply isn't there, and a protest won't change that. Short of a huge donation to the endowment, I doubt the situation will change.


They could do what other colleges do, start asking their alumni for cash. They've never really have done that before. Start raising funds!
 
2013-05-13 09:24:54 AM

pkjun: iheartscotch: $19,000 a semester? Do the give you a 24 carat gold diploma after you finish?

/ knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

/ I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business

That is not particularly high. The average 4-year college degree now costs $33,000 per year, while the market value of having a B.A. drops year to year, and entry-level wages are lower in real terms than at any point in the past half-century.

Of course, all this is probably just because spoiled, elitist Millennials are too lazy to figure out how to bootstrap.


Please tell me that's including out of state tuition.

Back in my day; you could go an entire year on less then $20,000; including food, lodging, books, and booze. To a big 12 college even. Smaller, tech colleges were even cheaper
 
2013-05-13 09:26:02 AM

pkjun: That is not particularly high. The average 4-year college degree now costs $33,000 per year, while the market value of having a B.A. drops year to year, and entry-level wages are lower in real terms than at any point in the past half-century.


Therefore...
 
2013-05-13 09:33:40 AM

farkeruk: iheartscotch: / knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

I have no idea why people are doing photography degrees. The main reason for doing a degree is to have a piece of paper that says you have knowledge in something. In photography, you just show people your photos. That's it.

And most of the theory can be learnt in a few months.

I know a guy who recently went into industrial photography. He'd been a very good amateur and decided it was what he wanted to do. He got kitted out with a reasonable camera (but only a £1500 one) and then did a load of courses, workshops and masterclasses.

A school friend of mine is a pro sports photographer. No qualifications in it.


Indeed.

I told him that he made a lot of money doing the spoiled biatch prom photo thing; and he should keep doing that. That is when he said that he felt that was "a waste of his talent".

/ personally; I think he was going to NEW YORK CITY because, well, I'm pretty sure he was into guys and didn't quite know it yet.

// nttawwt
 
2013-05-13 09:39:26 AM
iheartscotch:

Back in my day; you could go an entire year on less then $20,000; including food, lodging, books, and booze. To a big 12 college even. Smaller, tech colleges were even cheaper

There's part of the issue here.  A lot of the less than sympathetic comments here show much the same attitude.  Back when we all went to college in 90's, this was true.  But unlike you guys I, who am returning to school, have actually looked at tuition again for the first time in a decade.

And it blew my hair back.

State college now costs what private schools used to cost.  I could have hit ivy league for a few bucks more way back when for the cost of what state schools are now.  I'm kicking myself like you wouldn't believe for having not been on the ball as much as I should have.  Delaying finishing my education is going to cost me many more THOUSANDS of dollars over what it would have cost me back then.  And I make about the same amount of money I did back then while everything else is much more expensive.  Yay progress!

BTW, the income of the top 1% of earners in this country has jumped by a factor of several times since back then.  I'm sure that's entirely unrelated to everything else.  I mean, you can make up wealth out of thin air and it doesn't have to come from somewhere else like being squeezed out of the earnings of the middle class, or so they tell us.  And they must be right, they're rich after all and it's not like they'd lie to us so we wouldn't get cross over them getting richer at our expense or anything.
 
2013-05-13 09:50:06 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html


Thanks for posting, great article.  They completely farked up.  I mean completely.  It's pretty surprising that they just had to do this NOW considering all the massive fark-ups in the article.  The stupid administration of the college and anyone else involved in the awful decisions in the article should be paying for these students' tuitions themselves.  It's not the students' fault that the administration was completely incompetent.
 
2013-05-13 09:52:10 AM

burning_bridge: iheartscotch:

Back in my day; you could go an entire year on less then $20,000; including food, lodging, books, and booze. To a big 12 college even. Smaller, tech colleges were even cheaper

There's part of the issue here.  A lot of the less than sympathetic comments here show much the same attitude.  Back when we all went to college in 90's, this was true.  But unlike you guys I, who am returning to school, have actually looked at tuition again for the first time in a decade.

And it blew my hair back.

State college now costs what private schools used to cost.  I could have hit ivy league for a few bucks more way back when for the cost of what state schools are now.  I'm kicking myself like you wouldn't believe for having not been on the ball as much as I should have.  Delaying finishing my education is going to cost me many more THOUSANDS of dollars over what it would have cost me back then.  And I make about the same amount of money I did back then while everything else is much more expensive.  Yay progress!

BTW, the income of the top 1% of earners in this country has jumped by a factor of several times since back then.  I'm sure that's entirely unrelated to everything else.  I mean, you can make up wealth out of thin air and it doesn't have to come from somewhere else like being squeezed out of the earnings of the middle class, or so they tell us.  And they must be right, they're rich after all and it's not like they'd lie to us so we wouldn't get cross over them getting richer at our expense or anything.


Welcome to my world. It's the reason that, while I'm keeping my certifications updated, I haven't gone back to school. I'm honestly wondering when the "college bubble" pops, when getting a degree from Bumfark U isn't worth the 150,000+ in student loans, and getting a degree from Harvard or Yale is simply impossible without wealth (which, I think, is the intent.)
 
2013-05-13 09:55:37 AM

TheSelphie: BarkingUnicorn: Here's a thorough dissection of what Cooper Union did wrong

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowme nt -failed-in-its-mission.html

Thanks for posting, great article.  They completely farked up.  I mean completely.  It's pretty surprising that they just had to do this NOW considering all the massive fark-ups in the article.  The stupid administration of the college and anyone else involved in the awful decisions in the article should be paying for these students' tuitions themselves.  It's not the students' fault that the administration was completely incompetent.


Indeed - thanks for the article. What a friggin' mess.
 
2013-05-13 10:04:06 AM

FormlessOne: getting a degree from Harvard or Yale is simply impossible without wealth (which, I think, is the intent.)


i1198.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-13 10:10:17 AM

burning_bridge: iheartscotch:

Back in my day; you could go an entire year on less then $20,000; including food, lodging, books, and booze. To a big 12 college even. Smaller, tech colleges were even cheaper

There's part of the issue here.  A lot of the less than sympathetic comments here show much the same attitude.  Back when we all went to college in 90's, this was true.  But unlike you guys I, who am returning to school, have actually looked at tuition again for the first time in a decade.

And it blew my hair back.

State college now costs what private schools used to cost.  I could have hit ivy league for a few bucks more way back when for the cost of what state schools are now.  I'm kicking myself like you wouldn't believe for having not been on the ball as much as I should have.  Delaying finishing my education is going to cost me many more THOUSANDS of dollars over what it would have cost me back then.  And I make about the same amount of money I did back then while everything else is much more expensive.  Yay progress!

BTW, the income of the top 1% of earners in this country has jumped by a factor of several times since back then.  I'm sure that's entirely unrelated to everything else.  I mean, you can make up wealth out of thin air and it doesn't have to come from somewhere else like being squeezed out of the earnings of the middle class, or so they tell us.  And they must be right, they're rich after all and it's not like they'd lie to us so we wouldn't get cross over them getting richer at our expense or anything.


Blame the government.

Why shouldn't a state school charge $25,000 per year when they know anyone can get a federal student loan for $25,000 per year?

I would be willing to bet if the feds limited student loans to $10,000 per year, state university tuition would come crashing down.
 
2013-05-13 10:46:55 AM

Virtuoso80: At this point, only a certain percentage of colleges even give you a positive ROI after 30 years: http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2013

/Alum of #70


No mention of Bovine University???
 
2013-05-13 10:47:28 AM

iheartscotch: farkeruk: iheartscotch: / knew a kid that went to some artsy fartsy art school in NEW YORK CITY; kid said he expected to have $200,000 in loan debt by the time he was done. All for a photography degree.

// He felt his talents were wasted on the biatchy, spoiled girls that pay $500 to get prom pictures. So; he was going to trade that for no guarentee of future income, a mountian of debt and even biatchier models.

I have no idea why people are doing photography degrees. The main reason for doing a degree is to have a piece of paper that says you have knowledge in something. In photography, you just show people your photos. That's it.

And most of the theory can be learnt in a few months.

I know a guy who recently went into industrial photography. He'd been a very good amateur and decided it was what he wanted to do. He got kitted out with a reasonable camera (but only a £1500 one) and then did a load of courses, workshops and masterclasses.

A school friend of mine is a pro sports photographer. No qualifications in it.

Indeed.

I told him that he made a lot of money doing the spoiled biatch prom photo thing; and he should keep doing that. That is when he said that he felt that was "a waste of his talent".

/ personally; I think he was going to NEW YORK CITY because, well, I'm pretty sure he was into guys and didn't quite know it yet.

// nttawwt


I always thought that photography was something that you take as a minor to another program or a second major. For example I have a friend who is majoring in some Business field and minoring in photography and graphic design. He has a small promotion and advertising business right now and wanted to learn how to expand it and be able to keep it viable. He is doing the photography and graphic design stuff because he creates his own flyers and promotional literature and wanted to learn the latest equipment used for that stuff and to learn all aspects of what went into it.
 
2013-05-13 10:52:16 AM

randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.


Wow, I've never heard you say anything critical of Republicans before... bravo!
 
2013-05-13 11:02:12 AM

randomjsa: Tantrum throwing in the face of reality and tough choices doesn't make things change.


And yet we wonder why countries like India and China absolutely murder us when it comes to brain power.
 
2013-05-13 11:16:31 AM

FormlessOne: getting a degree from Harvard or Yale is simply impossible without wealth (which, I think, is the intent.)


Well.. Harvard will actually let anyone go for free if they genuinely cant afford it.  They'd rather have the talent, they dont need the money.
 
2013-05-13 11:16:47 AM

thamike: dj_bigbird: It's cute how the students think college is about them.

What does this even mean?


It means that colleges don't really exist to educate students anymore. That their goals are irrelevant. What counts at college is the number of admins, professors, bigger budgets, more buildings, more benefits for the staff, sports (to raise revenue) etc. etc. The students are just the conduit of money from the federal government (student loans, grants) to the college. The students are then saddled with inescapable debt. Great blog about this mess here: http://edububble.com/dpp/
 
2013-05-13 11:31:28 AM
It's true that college in the US is turning into a for-profit industry, and yes, there are other ramifications on down the line; economic, social, and eventually even moral and ethical - not that an education itself is a moral issue like some people think, but the think of what the loss or reduction of some professionals, like doctors, would do.

However, those are the problems of the people running the colleges, of how the governments (federal, state, etc) guide them, and indirectly, by the population as a whole, who are more concerned with college sports than a college education.

These are all important questions that need solving, but have nothing to do with the direct worries of a student.

The problem a student faces today is in comparison, much more simple: Looked at as an investment, will the time and money I spend on college, on a specific degree, result in a skill set or accreditation which appears to exceed the initial investment?  Anything else, everything else leading up to that assumption of risk is unimportant in this brief investigation. If you do not do this simple analysis, and you cannot afford to lose the investment, yet press on anyway, then you are either stupid or willfully ignorant.
 
2013-05-13 11:31:35 AM

dj_bigbird: It means that colleges don't really exist to educate students anymore. That their goals are irrelevant. What counts at college is the number of admins, professors, bigger budgets, more buildings, more benefits for the staff, sports (to raise revenue) etc. etc. The students are just the conduit of money from the federal government (student loans, grants) to the college. The students are then saddled with inescapable debt.


coachotis.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-13 11:34:26 AM
America now has one industry, in case you haven't noticed.  One.  That industry is debt.  Pick an access point, bend over and sign here.
 
2013-05-13 11:51:08 AM
So a private entity, that used to give away it's product for free now decides they need to charge for it and people are upset because why?

Hey kiddies, if you feel so strongly about it, why not pledge some of your income as alumnus rather than "occupy" the presidents office and pout?

oh, you want other people to solve this problem.
 
2013-05-13 11:51:30 AM
Waah!  My school is no longer giving a free ride to their new students.  Waah!  Seriously, did they really think that the university can sustain that?  What utopia do they believe they are living in?
 
2013-05-13 11:53:25 AM

bunner: America now has one industry, in case you haven't noticed.  One.  That industry is debt.  Pick an access point, bend over and sign here.


I thought the industry was entertainment.  Be it movies, tv, music, sports, or pr0n.
 
2013-05-13 11:53:56 AM

Danger Mouse: Hey kiddies


And, that's where you sh*t the bed.   :  )
 
2013-05-13 11:56:19 AM

PsyLord: bunner: America now has one industry, in case you haven't noticed.  One.  That industry is debt.  Pick an access point, bend over and sign here.

I thought the industry was entertainment.  Be it movies, tv, music, sports, or pr0n.


And now it's time for the Filming Regular People At Work Hour, brought to you by people selling debt!
 
2013-05-13 12:16:12 PM
Ha! I graduated in 93 and paid about $1500 per semester for (arguably) the best engineering school in Canada. Suckers!
 
2013-05-13 12:37:59 PM
A simple explanation of what will happen if the rate for student loans goes down (short answer: students get screwed) http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-seen-and-unseen-of-federal- s tudent-loans#axzz2TBQosWcj
 
2013-05-13 12:40:31 PM

dj_bigbird: A simple explanation of what will happen if the rate for student loans goes down, goes up or stays the same (short answer: students get screwed)

 
2013-05-13 12:41:09 PM
They killed Ludwig II of Bavaria for building wonderful castles, too.

si.wsj.net
 
2013-05-13 12:43:18 PM

PsyLord: Waah!  My school is no longer giving a free ride to their new students.  Waah!  Seriously, did they really think that the university can sustain that?  What utopia do they believe they are living in?


They did sustain it, for decades, by operating off a generous initial endowment and restricting themselves to a tiny no-frills campus. Then a greedy idiot became president of the college and tried Unfettered Capitalism, and reduced the budget to a smoking crater. Again, go read the Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/how-cooper-unions-endowmen t -failed-in-its-mission.htm
 
2013-05-13 12:47:17 PM
"But teh sustainable endless growth and teh no hows will save us cause the eagle of freedom and oil and, sh*t look what Job guy did!".  Capitalism is a component.  It is unsustainable as a religion.  A lot of things are.  This is due to something called "physics".
 
2013-05-13 12:54:10 PM

Jument: Ha! I graduated in 93 and paid about $1500 per semester for (arguably) the best engineering school in Canada. Suckers!


Well, as long as you got yours and everybody else got screwed, I guess you win!  You've never seen the winner's circle, have you?
 
2013-05-13 01:29:16 PM
And I thought our tuition hike this Fall was bad at 18.5% increase, making our total tuition increase 24.325% in less than 12 months.

If you're not a STEM major, then really, seriously, question why you're in college, especially if you or your parents are paying out of pocket. My school's largest departments are Criminal Justice and Business, followed by Humanities. Income potential= pffffbtbbbbtbbbbtt

But as a business model- promising a future to children while knowing there aren't enough positions at Taco Bell for another acountant, or English major, seems to be working as they rake in money hand over fist.

Where the money goes is the problem: grossly inefficient administration which constantly violates Federal Law at the expense of the student body.

My school is what happens when you let the dumber college grads run things. MBA's lined up to work for $12/hr shuffling papers, and acting smug. Brilliant.
 
2013-05-13 01:46:19 PM

Meesterjojo: My school is what happens when you let the dumber college grads run things. MBA's lined up to work for $12/hr shuffling papers, and acting smug. Brilliant.


And if you think about it, all but inevitable.  Only a dolt would smugly grin at the prospect of a "career" where they get to wear a snappy suit every day and "never have to lift  anything heavier than a file storage box full of hard copies or a mouse", and assume they'll never get bored out of their skulls.  Guess which end of the bell curve can happily do incredibly numbing, repetitive bullsh*t every day without succumbing to ennui?
 
2013-05-13 02:06:11 PM

bunner: PunGent: Buddy of mine just got out of a private sector situation where one of the VPs spent the last two years...and nearly ten million dollars...trashing the old computer system everyone relied on and replacing it with one his pet consultants built from scratch.

Naturally, it doesn't work as well, has fewer features and more bugs, and they've had to let people go to pay for it, and work the remaining ones harder to make up for the inefficiency.

You know how, like, you'd be sitting in a bar hanging out, listening to the conversations and some guy would say "Well, you know, it's not what you know, it's who you blow"?  And you'd chuckle and say, internally. "Well, yeah, but not -really-"?  Well, yeah.  It is.  And fatassed, pigsh*t thick, well connected dullards are regularly rewarded for taking a big fat dump on stuff they don't understand because their cronies made a buck off of it.  And until we find a way to start throwing these dolts and their patrons out of the nearest 30th floor  window, college is pretty much a piss up a rope, regardless of your degree.


Scary thing is, an older brother of another buddy of mine, an engineer by training, found out the hard way that kind of shiat goes on inside nuclear power plants, where you'd think they'd at least try to reign in the MBA-tards out of self-preservation, if nothing else...
 
2013-05-13 02:10:30 PM

ultraholland: Starting in the fall of 2014, new students with the ability to pay will be billed for half the tuition costs, currently $19,000 per semester. Current students won't be affected.

The writing has me confused as to whether this $19K is the full tuition or half; that aside, only students who can afford it will pay.


There are two semesters in a year.
 
2013-05-13 02:12:27 PM
If they think protesting will make bills and salaries magically pay themselves, maybe the school isn't worth $19k.
 
2013-05-13 02:17:54 PM
Shame on Cooper Union's administration and board for so grossly mismanaging finances as to run the school into the ground, and now making the students pay for what they have done.  Are any of those administrators taking a pay cut?  Didn't think so.

They have violated Peter Cooper's mission.  If they are to charge tuition, then the school needs to be called something else as it is no longer Cooper Union.  Where once students were selected based on merit alone, the school will now join the mediocre ranks of any other for-profit institution.
 
2013-05-13 02:25:14 PM

cheesewheel: Shame on Cooper Union's administration and board  the entirety of corporate America and the banking industryfor so grossly mismanaging finances as to run the school economy  into the ground, and now making the students  people who actually work for a living pay for what they have done.


That IS the new business model.  Academia just decided to get in on the pork before Wall St. lapped it all up.
 
2013-05-13 02:27:07 PM

bunner: Meesterjojo: My school is what happens when you let the dumber college grads run things. MBA's lined up to work for $12/hr shuffling papers, and acting smug. Brilliant.

And if you think about it, all but inevitable.  Only a dolt would smugly grin at the prospect of a "career" where they get to wear a snappy suit every day and "never have to lift  anything heavier than a file storage box full of hard copies or a mouse", and assume they'll never get bored out of their skulls.  Guess which end of the bell curve can happily do incredibly numbing, repetitive bullsh*t every day without succumbing to ennui?


According to most studies, it's the person with the most money that is generally the happiest, regardless of the day-to-day job they do.  Managers tend to be well compensated, and are some of the more genuinely happy people.  On the other hand, some people have jobs that are nothing but manual labor, day in day out, literally leaving them covered in sweat, exhausted, and often injured - sometimes permanently - in their job, and they're happy.  Granted, we're mostly talking about sports professionals, but there you go.

As far as MBA's go, they're a pretty good ROI with manageable risk.  Most white collar jobs are like that because they focus on your intellectual skill set instead of your physical capabilities.  Manual jobs - like being an NFL quarterback - might be lucrative, but they have short durations (comparatively), and there's a high risk you won't make that goal.

Besides, what's the alternative?  I haven't heard of many dolts smugly grinning about their jobs as they wait for the timer to go off as they flip and salt the next batch of fries.  That's the lower end of the bell curve that doesn't get the choice to pick any other type of job.
 
2013-05-13 02:34:37 PM

quietwalker: Most white collar jobs are like that because they focus on your intellectual skill set


And so far these captains of industry have gotten us.. here?  I sort of doubt that Stanford Binet scores are the top shopping metric when checking the teeth on the latest crop of corporate whore wannabes.

quietwalker: Besides, what's the alternative?


Honesty?  Decency?  Value for dollar as a goal other than a nuisance to the quarterly P&L?

quietwalker: hat's the lower end of the bell curve that doesn't get the choice to pick any other type of job.


PhDs with spatulas are prolix.  It may be a comfort to assure oneself that you have the GOOD treadmill cause "I'm one of the smart ones!", but the state of the con speaks to other qualities being necessary to skin whatever cat they are handed.  I'd like to say that the debt Ponzi fandango is *tee hee* better than working for a living", but it isn't.  The false dichotomy between "works with his hands / works with his brain" is nothing more and it's losing traction in the face of stellar GPAs and 300k degrees selling stereos.
 
2013-05-13 02:39:43 PM
"Well, you can't just expect to earn the good money out of the gate."

"Really, why's that, then, sonny Jim?"

"Because then, you might actually beat the debt wheel and we won't break even on your ass by the time you're too old to work, chew or walk to the corner store and that's sort of how the game works.  We pretty much want you fitted for a granite condo by the time we steal your pension."

""Well, that explains a lot."
 
2013-05-13 03:07:01 PM

quietwalker: Most white collar jobs are like that because they focus on your intellectual skill set instead of your physical capabilities.


And in case you're interested - and from your rather long and mind profile, I assume it's a great interest to you - .7 percentile of everybody who ever sat the Stanford Binet, Accelerated Learning Program in 4th - 6th grades, turning in college level work in college level classes by 6th grade, quit the program because I got tired of self congratulatory, precious snowflake prats braying endlessly about how wonderful it is to be "special" while doing f*ck all of any use with it and dime store pedagogues taking their "stuck teaching  in public school" frustrations out on the brats they were charged with .  Regrets?  I've had a few.  But then again, too few to mention.  The point?  The window dressing and the potential is a lovely little trophy, but if your results suck fat hippo ass, so do you and so do your methods, colloquially speaking.  All the ostensibly high minded "people of promise" have, so far, manged to offer the world is nothing more than new and more gymnastic methods of sucking money's dick.  Oddly, I find this to be vastly unimpressive.
 
2013-05-13 03:57:35 PM

puddleonfire: Meanwhile university presidents are retiring with a MILLION A YEAR.
Oh and $19K IS a lot, you damn brats.

/protested $600 increase


Come on my lawn and take a tap from my keg.
 
2013-05-13 04:11:57 PM

cheesewheel: Shame on Cooper Union's administration and board for so grossly mismanaging finances as to run the school into the ground, and now making the students pay for what they have done.  Are any of those administrators taking a pay cut?  Didn't think so.

They have violated Peter Cooper's mission.  If they are to charge tuition, then the school needs to be called something else as it is no longer Cooper Union.  Where once students were selected based on merit alone, the school will now join the mediocre ranks of any other for-profit institution.


Charging money for tuition is not for-profit.  It's for-operating-costs.  There are for-profit colleges, but they are few compared to not-for-profit colleges.

Also, The California Master Plan for Higher Education, which established the UC, CSU and CCC systems, states that there shall be no tuition for students, yet I don't hear you asking for them to change all their names because they violated their establishment charter and started charging tuition decades ago because free isn't very sustainable, even with taxpayer support.
 
2013-05-13 04:43:39 PM

bunner: quietwalker: Most white collar jobs are like that because they focus on your intellectual skill set

And so far these captains of industry have gotten us.. here?  I sort of doubt that Stanford Binet scores are the top shopping metric when checking the teeth on the latest crop of corporate whore wannabes.

quietwalker: Besides, what's the alternative?

Honesty?  Decency?  Value for dollar as a goal other than a nuisance to the quarterly P&L?

quietwalker: That's the lower end of the bell curve that doesn't get the choice to pick any other type of job.

PhDs with spatulas are prolix.  It may be a comfort to assure oneself that you have the GOOD treadmill cause "I'm one of the smart ones!", but the state of the con speaks to other qualities being necessary to skin whatever cat they are handed.  I'd like to say that the debt Ponzi fandango is *tee hee* better than working for a living", but it isn't.  The false dichotomy between "works with his hands / works with his brain" is nothing more and it's losing traction in the face of stellar GPAs and 300k degrees selling stereos.


I'm not quite able to parse everything you typed, it seems like some sort of political activist-buzzword? vocabulary I'm not familiar with, so sorry in advance if I miss a point or two.

It's also hard to go point by point since you have covered such a broad range of subjects, but let me summarize my thoughts thusly:

  - I agree, IQ is not a sufficient measure of financial or career success.  Studies have shown that popularity is a better measure; intangibles such as confidence and soft people skills apparently influence interviews, promotions, bonuses, etc more than many other objective measures.  Look at our presidental elections: they prove who's most popular, not who's best suited to run a country.

  - Having a degree of any type or not, or being successful in your chosen career or job does not necessarily reflect on your ethical or moral value as a person.  Not every successful person is indecent, not every poor person is.  That's your false dichotomy.  Corporations do not automatically equal 'evil': the world is not so simple.
   - Statistically, manual labor results in lower net worth, less benefits (health, vacation, 401k, etc), higher turnover, less translatable skills, greater injury rate, greater fatigue, and results in a lower quality of life with greater chance for debt.   About the only thing going for it is that it tends to have a lower barrier to entry.


  - How much you pay for your degree has little to do with the value of your degree, rather the subject is more important.  For example, non-STEM degrees tend to result in lower net earnings, higher unemployment.   Having a degree does not guarantee employment, regardless of the cost of the degree.

... and over all of this;  purchasing something on credit which provides no reasonable return on investment, absent any other form of renumeration, is a very poor choice indeed.  It's obviously a luxury, and going into debt for a luxury you have no way to repay is hardly intelligent.
 
2013-05-13 04:52:39 PM

bunner: quietwalker: Most white collar jobs are like that because they focus on your intellectual skill set instead of your physical capabilities.

And in case you're interested - and from your rather long and mind profile, I assume it's a great interest to you - .7 percentile of everybody who ever sat the Stanford Binet, Accelerated Learning Program in 4th - 6th grades, turning in college level work in college level classes by 6th grade, quit the program because I got tired of self congratulatory, precious snowflake prats braying endlessly about how wonderful it is to be "special" while doing f*ck all of any use with it and dime store pedagogues taking their "stuck teaching  in public school" frustrations out on the brats they were charged with .  Regrets?  I've had a few.  But then again, too few to mention.  The point?  The window dressing and the potential is a lovely little trophy, but if your results suck fat hippo ass, so do you and so do your methods, colloquially speaking.  All the ostensibly high minded "people of promise" have, so far, manged to offer the world is nothing more than new and more gymnastic methods of sucking money's dick.  Oddly, I find this to be vastly unimpressive.


I do need to work on brevity :)  Lemme try here.

Perhaps your reasoning is based primarily on bias and anecdotal evidence? You apparently have your own axe to grind on the subject and your emotional involvement may be resulting in the above incoherent ... message? .... and lack of focus or rational points.
 
2013-05-13 05:00:36 PM

quietwalker: I'm not quite able to parse everything you typed, it seems like some sort of political activist-buzzword?


Oh, dear me, I must work on not being too obtuse to those with more refined academic sensibilities.   I'll pencil it for 2014.
 
2013-05-13 05:01:51 PM
Lemme ensummarizulate all dis sh*t, here

bloggingblue.com
Where it started.

i.imgur.com
Where we are


s3.amazonaws.com
Where we're heading.
 
2013-05-13 05:03:26 PM

quietwalker: Perhaps your reasoning is based primarily on bias and anecdotal evidence? You apparently have your own axe to grind on the subject and your emotional involvement may be resulting in the above incoherent ... message? .... and lack of focus or rational points.


That, or your playing prig with a broken projector and a template that probably was the jazz in Phil-102.  Who can say?
 
2013-05-13 05:14:56 PM

quietwalker: Perhaps your reasoning is based primarily on bias and anecdotal evidence?


Like a gutted economy and disingenuous business practices being normative?

You apparently have your own axe to grind on the subject

Really?  Why's that, then?

and your emotional involvement

www.frontroomcinema.com

may be resulting in the above incoherent ... message?

Really why is it... incoherent?  Like, broad scope constructs are... incoherent?  Like... that?

..... and lack of focus or rational points.

So, like, unless I've got a specific flag sewn on my coat, I'm talking complete monkey snot, OBVIOUSLY the product of a weak intellect and an overwrought EMOTIONAL reaction to blah blah blah, because you just said so?  I can do this all day, but I won't.  If the next reel is a dime store condescension fandango, I'm heading for the snack bar.
 
2013-05-13 05:23:10 PM
You see, QW, what you just handed me is called "an authority posture".  And you stink at it.  :  )  I'll bring you back some Jujubees.
 
2013-05-13 05:31:20 PM

dj_bigbird: thamike: dj_bigbird: It's cute how the students think college is about them.

What does this even mean?

It means that colleges don't really exist to educate students anymore. That their goals are irrelevant. What counts at college is the number of admins, professors, bigger budgets, more buildings, more benefits for the staff, sports (to raise revenue) etc. etc. The students are just the conduit of money from the federal government (student loans, grants) to the college. The students are then saddled with inescapable debt. Great blog about this mess here: http://edububble.com/dpp/


Oh, I see.  You mean the students think the administration has their best interests at heart.  Because college was all about me.  I couldn't care less what the college I went to thought about me, at least not beyond my professors.  Finding an adviser or administrator who is at least partly interested in being good at their jobs is like deep sea noodling.

I also have never met a student who thinks that college administrators have the students' best interests at heart.  Especially the ones with loans or even scholarships.

Still, I lucked out with the Virginia university system.  Common byzantine bullsh*t aside, it's top notch.
 
2013-05-13 09:02:32 PM

iheartscotch: I told him that he'd probably end up homeless in Central Park; giving BJs to rich business

winos.

FTFY.
 
2013-05-14 03:34:25 AM

ds394: I'm just curious what kind of alternative solution is being proposed by the protesting students.

How come all I'm hearing is the sound of crickets?

That's what I thought... protestors without an answer.


It's the entitlement culture to which Mitt Romney alluded.
They want free shiat and will hold their breath and stomp their feet until they get their way.
 
2013-05-14 08:41:28 AM

msbav8r: It's the entitlement culture to which Mitt Romney alluded.


Said Mitt Romney.  Who is probably one of the top 10 entitled white guys on the planet.  Did he borrow it from his parents?  *snort*
 
Displayed 129 of 129 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report