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(The Raw Story)   Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates: Republicans have a "cartoonish impression" of US military capability. OH SNAP   (rawstory.com) divider line 596
    More: Interesting, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Benghazi, Special Forced, Bob Schieffer  
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6895 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2013 at 6:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-13 12:20:15 AM

19 Kilo: I've seen a new driver get his head torn off when he stuck it out of the driver's hole while a turret was traversing.  I've seen what was left of a 19D who was on the wrong side of a Brad round because the guy he was linking ammo with decided to use a hammer to seat it.


I saw a new Cobra pilot die after walking into his own tail rotor. He was excited after a good day of qualifying at the range. Also saw two pilots die after hitting wires while flying at night.

Is there a point you're trying to make here?
 
2013-05-13 12:21:22 AM

Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: No it's not falling back on anything. It is a legitimate question. The same thing happened several times in the past, why didn't any of those times require hearing after hearing? What is different about this time? And while you are trying to think up an answer for that, also explain exactly what was the scandal?

Did the Bush administration blatantly lie about what took place during those attacks?


I don't know, he never said much about them. But Obama never lied lied either, he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA, and later corrected it when it was realized it was incorrect information.

And answer this, what exactly did he have to gain by lying about what happened? Because that is a very important question, unless you think he just lied to be lying. So your claim that he lied and tried to coverup what happened just doesn't make sense because their wasn't any reason for him to lie in that situation..
 
2013-05-13 12:23:02 AM
Besides, this conversation is moronic.

Obama would have sent in the four seals issued with scissor grenades, limbo vapor, and tripple-blast brain spitters.  Once they secured the consulate they could have then laid mimetic cluster mines and dug trenches and filled them with acid.
 
2013-05-13 12:24:08 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The USA did lose one soldier at Medina Ridge, he was killed by friendly fire.


It could have been a lot more because we really screwed up. If it weren't for their even greater screw-ups, we could have lost a lot of guys. Three major mistakes: 1) They weren't in their tanks, thanks to our air making it an unsafe place to hang out; 2) they chose berms rather than digging in - berms just kind of polish up the depleted uranium round as it goes through; 3) strangely enough, their pickets didn't warn the main force. It's not clear why.

Fix those three things, and at those ranges, even the M1 can be toasted.

Good God we farked up and we got lucky.
 
2013-05-13 12:24:16 AM

Popcorn Johnny: 19 Kilo: I've seen a new driver get his head torn off when he stuck it out of the driver's hole while a turret was traversing.  I've seen what was left of a 19D who was on the wrong side of a Brad round because the guy he was linking ammo with decided to use a hammer to seat it.

I saw a new Cobra pilot die after walking into his own tail rotor. He was excited after a good day of qualifying at the range. Also saw two pilots die after hitting wires while flying at night.

Is there a point you're trying to make here?


Yep.  You are, apparently, incapable of distinguishing training accidents from actual combat.  But, you're a keyboard commando and shall henceforth be relegated to the Blue 1 farky reserved for trolls.  Good on ya!  I hope your imagined faux-military expertise keeps you warm at night.  I'm also glad bigger men than you put themselves in harms way, and better men than you have supported them.  Kisses.
 
2013-05-13 12:24:30 AM

SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.


Ah. Last night, you were in solid with Gates. Now you agree with someone who doesn't agree with him...and what does Gibson have to say about it? Has he said anything except the hearsay quote that Gates claims he made about Gates having more balls than most politicians?
 
2013-05-13 12:25:20 AM

dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?


Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.
 
2013-05-13 12:25:37 AM

ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,


No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.
 
2013-05-13 12:25:42 AM

ongbok: I don't know, he never said much about them. But Obama never lied lied either, he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA, and later corrected it when it was realized it was incorrect information.

And answer this, what exactly did he have to gain by lying about what happened? Because that is a very important question, unless you think he just lied to be lying. So your claim that he lied and tried to coverup what happened just doesn't make sense because their wasn't any reason for him to lie in that situation..


See, Obama spent the last four years working the fact that he personally killed EVERY Al Queda operative IN THE WORLD with his bare hands.  He would work in every conversation about how Al Queso didn't exist any more and that they were all destroyed in the Pyramid Wars.  So having to admit before the Presidential Erection that not only did terrorists still exist but they still had the power to kill Americans, it would have ruined his reelection chances.
 
2013-05-13 12:27:18 AM

19 Kilo: Popcorn Johnny: 19 Kilo: I've seen a new driver get his head torn off when he stuck it out of the driver's hole while a turret was traversing.  I've seen what was left of a 19D who was on the wrong side of a Brad round because the guy he was linking ammo with decided to use a hammer to seat it.

I saw a new Cobra pilot die after walking into his own tail rotor. He was excited after a good day of qualifying at the range. Also saw two pilots die after hitting wires while flying at night.

Is there a point you're trying to make here?

Yep.  You are, apparently, incapable of distinguishing training accidents from actual combat.  But, you're a keyboard commando and shall henceforth be relegated to the Blue 1 farky reserved for trolls.  Good on ya!  I hope your imagined faux-military expertise keeps you warm at night.  I'm also glad bigger men than you put themselves in harms way, and better men than you have supported them.  Kisses.


The idea of Johnny having been anywhere nearer combat than a live-fire round in Germany makes me laugh my ass off. He'd have been shot dead by some AK-toting camel jockey within moments of deploying into Iraq if he'd ever been there.
 
2013-05-13 12:27:43 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: 19 Kilo: That fine crunchy (hah!) upthread pointed out a couple more recent ones.  For someone who's pretending to have served, you'd think you'd be a little more up on combat actions.

I'd break track with you any day, bro.*

/*As long as I don't have to put it back together or pull those big, nasty plates out of the way.


Skirts.  The armor around the hull/roadwheels/track is called skirts.

/Tanks are totes manly tho.
 
2013-05-13 12:27:48 AM

SunsetLament: dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?

Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.


So, do you know what a quote is?
 
2013-05-13 12:27:54 AM

SunsetLament: Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane. Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order? Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out. I'm sure everyone wants to know.


And this one time, Jackie Chan told me that I was better at kung-fu then any white man alive.  And then this random huge black guy complemented me on the size of my penis.
 
2013-05-13 12:28:19 AM
As a curious observer, was serving during Medina Ridge more or less dangerous than replacing helicopter parts?
 
2013-05-13 12:28:34 AM

19 Kilo: You are, apparently, incapable of distinguishing training accidents from actual combat.


You cited some "major tank battle" and I responded by pointing out the details of the attack. It wasn't a major battle, it was shooting fish in a barrel. By the way, my former unit lost two Blackhawks full of soldiers when they were mistakenly shot down by F-15's. 26 dead.
 
2013-05-13 12:29:26 AM

Radioactive Ass: Like we said in the Navy, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. That's what this sounds like to me, a lack of prior planning. We did and had a lot of things that never got used for real life problems, that doesn't mean that it was a bad idea to do them. I've shot somewhere around 60 exercise torpedoes and countless waterslugs yet never shot a warshot at anyone in anger (nobody in the USN has in a very long time). Therefore the Navy should stop carrying torpedoes on their submarines.

The job of the military is to be ready in the event of something happening and then figuring out where those things are most likely to happen. Is Northern Italy a current hot spot or is the Middle East, especially on that date, the best place to have men and equipment available?


Did the Navy teach you that crap or did you shiat that out yourself?  Dude, that makes no sense.  And if you were in the Navy, you'd know that there is no way in hell you can keep shuttling around forces all throughout the planet to respond on a moment's notice, especially in the  Middle East.  Just basing troops there is inviting something to happen...to them.  And who the F knows where something will happen?  The intelligence services prolly come up with a 1000 credible threats a week WORLDWIDE, and where do you suppose we keep a battalion of Marines to send out a platoon or company ready to respond within a couple of hours? In orbit on the ISS?!?

This isn't Nintendo.  We don't have timewarp capabilities.  BTW, suppose shiat went down hard in Egypt and they decided to storm the embassy?  You send your react force there. Then..OOPS.  Libya jumps.  YOu are basically plum short of troops, aircraft, materiel, and plans to do anything.

Your argument doesn't make sense.  Besides, there is no way I can keep a platoon of Marines sitting on the apron ready to go on 1 hour NTM EVERYDAY.  You are seriously kidding yourself if you think that will happen.
 
2013-05-13 12:29:47 AM

dlp211: SunsetLament: dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?

Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.

So, do you know what a quote is?


And of course, there's no reason why Gates might have made up what Gibson told him, right? We know that those words are the unvarnished truth from the horse's mouth to the horse's ass.
 
2013-05-13 12:30:11 AM

Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first classified report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.


I know that's a big word and you don't understand what it means, but it is significant.
 
2013-05-13 12:30:21 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Popcorn Johnny: Bootleg: Out of interest, where in Germany where you?

Giebelstadt Army Airfield.

Clearly the front lines. I bet those hausfraus were intimidating!



I still have my purple heart from the battle of Oktoberfest 92
 
2013-05-13 12:31:39 AM

Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

Ah. Last night, you were in solid with Gates. Now you agree with someone who doesn't agree with him...and what does Gibson have to say about it? Has he said anything except the hearsay quote that Gates claims he made about Gates having more balls than most politicians?


Here's the exact about of times I can ever remember typing Robert Gates' name (or referring to something he's said or done) in the last decade before tonight ... zero.  How never mentioning him puts me "in solid" with him, I have no idea - but you're obviously a liberal and I've learned facts will never impede your narrative.  So ... sure, whatever you say.
 
2013-05-13 12:32:30 AM
One thing I do love about these threads is they let me update my "Farkers who actually served in the military" list vs. "poseurs who got their lingo from 2 years in the National Guard and a lot of video games."

For you guys who did serve and were in combat--thanks again.
 
2013-05-13 12:32:42 AM

Popcorn Johnny: 19 Kilo: You are, apparently, incapable of distinguishing training accidents from actual combat.

You cited some "major tank battle" and I responded by pointing out the details of the attack. It wasn't a major battle, it was shooting fish in a barrel. By the way, my former unit lost two Blackhawks full of soldiers when they were mistakenly shot down by F-15's. 26 dead.


And now you're marked as this:

(favorite: Chairborne Ranger Extraordinaire.)

My former units did lots of things and lost lots of people too.  Heck, the company I work for now is a multi-billion dollar company!  Clearly I should go your route and claim those billions are mine, because I was in some way associated with it.  Stop trying to be hard pogue.
 
2013-05-13 12:32:51 AM

dlp211: I know that's a big word and you don't understand what it means, but it is significant.


It has absolutely nothing to do with how the administration chose to classify the attack. Nice try but I suspect that you know you're attempting to make a point that's irrelevant to what was and wasn't disclosed about the attack.
 
2013-05-13 12:35:54 AM

19 Kilo: My former units did lots of things and lost lots of people too.


Yeah, but in your arrogance, you were implying that aviation was somehow incapable of being dangerous.
 
2013-05-13 12:36:05 AM

Gyrfalcon: dlp211: SunsetLament: dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?

Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.

So, do you know what a quote is?

And of course, there's no reason why Gates might have made up what Gibson told him, right? We know that those words are the unvarnished truth from the horse's mouth to the horse's ass.


First of all, you mean Hicks, not Gates.  Second, Hicks is a liberal Democrat who voted for Obama twice (and Hillary in the primaries).  So ... removing politics from the equation ... no, I can't think of a reasonable explanation why Hicks would perjure himself in front of Congress.  But, surely, since you believe he has ... let's get Gibson in there under oath and let him either (a) call Hicks a liar, or (b) confirm his testimony.
 
2013-05-13 12:36:36 AM

Popcorn Johnny: MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.

22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?


Yeah, 22 years and an SFC. I could have been promoted years ago. I don't want to be a MSG or 1SG. I like working directly with Soldiers, with infantrymen. I am privileged to have the distinct honor of doing so. Someone has to teach and train them what to do when shiat goes sideways.

Since you decided to make an issue of ASVAB scores, my AFQT(overall ASVAB score) is 99, my GT is 134 and my MM is 136. Why, oh why, I'm sure you'll cry, would I choose the infantry? Cuz I'm not a pussy.

I'm far happier and much prefer to work with young men who, unlike some people, have the balls to say "give me the hard job, the one with actual risk," than to play pencil-pusher in an office surrounded by PX Rangers and fobbit types whose only fears are paper cuts, a bad OER/NCOER & the mess hall not serving steak & seafood on Friday.

Now, I know that I can't possibly measure up in your eyes. I know kicking down doors and getting in firefights pales in comparison to the dangers posed by low fluid levels and using the wrong size of cotter pin. Screw up a 2404 and the war will be lost! (BTW, a 4-man stack IS NOT "a line at the shoppette that indicates the need to open a second checkout register"). I know that the Army relies heavily on the support MOS's, so much so that they created the CAB to recognize their sacrifices in combat theaters (Cotton Absorbent Badge). Without you self-appointed life-takers and heartbreakers, I'm sure us lowly grunts (AKA, the ones doing the actual fighting and making actual sacrifices) would have no one to look to as sources of inspiration when lead starts flying.

So, thanks for doing what you did while you served. I'm sure you changed the world and made the PX safe for democracy.

Or, in other words:

For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, none is possible.
 
2013-05-13 12:36:48 AM

SunsetLament: Here's the exact about of times I can ever remember typing Robert Gates' name (or referring to something he's said or done) in the last decade before tonight ... zero. How never mentioning him puts me "in solid" with him, I have no idea - but you're obviously a liberal and I've learned facts will never impede your narrative. So ... sure, whatever you say.


Shiat, you're right. I confused Gates' name with Hicks. Silly me. And it was Friday, not last night.

I bow my head in shame.
 
2013-05-13 12:37:05 AM

Gyrfalcon: dlp211: SunsetLament: dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?

Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.

So, do you know what a quote is?

And of course, there's no reason why Gates might have made up what Gibson told him, right? We know that those words are the unvarnished truth from the horse's mouth to the horse's ass.


I'm not quoting Gates quoting Gibson.  What Gates can testify to is the actual capabilities of the military.  Believe it or not, we don't just send our troops anywhere on a whim.  The amount of intelligence needed to put a Delta, SeAL, or Ranger team on the ground is huge.  The assets required to do so is beyond most civilian's and fellow military personell's comprehension

This idea, that 4 guys were going to fly in like cowboys and save the day is pure fantasy no matter who they are or what training they have.  They would have wound up dead too.
 
2013-05-13 12:37:27 AM

Gyrfalcon: One thing I do love about these threads is they let me update my "Farkers who actually served in the military" list vs. "poseurs who got their lingo from 2 years in the National Guard and a lot of video games."

For you guys who did serve and were in combat--thanks again.


That's unfair.  I was deployed on active duty and when I was in the Guard.  Can I be both?
 
2013-05-13 12:39:27 AM

Popcorn Johnny: dlp211: I know that's a big word and you don't understand what it means, but it is significant.

It has absolutely nothing to do with how the administration chose to classify the attack. Nice try but I suspect that you know you're attempting to make a point that's irrelevant to what was and wasn't disclosed about the attack.


You are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not relevant. People much smarter than you with much more important positions in the military and state department get to make those decisions. Your opinion matters very little since it is not based on fact but upon pre-existing political bias.
 
2013-05-13 12:39:51 AM

MustangFive: I could have been promoted years ago. I don't want to be a MSG or 1SG.


And with that little nugget of BS, I'm out of this thread. It's been fun trading barbs with some of you.
 
2013-05-13 12:41:21 AM

19 Kilo: Gyrfalcon: One thing I do love about these threads is they let me update my "Farkers who actually served in the military" list vs. "poseurs who got their lingo from 2 years in the National Guard and a lot of video games."

For you guys who did serve and were in combat--thanks again.

That's unfair.  I was deployed on active duty and when I was in the Guard.  Can I be both?


You....are a lunatic and I'm proud to know you.
 
2013-05-13 12:42:46 AM

Popcorn Johnny: You cited some "major tank battle" and I responded by pointing out the details of the attack. It wasn't a major battle, it was shooting fish in a barrel. By the way, my former unit lost two Blackhawks full of soldiers when they were mistakenly shot down by F-15's. 26 dead.


So you're claiming to be from 6th Battalion, 159th Aviation Regiment.
 
2013-05-13 12:44:48 AM

Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.


Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?
 
2013-05-13 12:46:03 AM

Popcorn Johnny: 19 Kilo: My former units did lots of things and lost lots of people too.

Yeah, but in your arrogance, you were implying that aviation was somehow incapable of being dangerous.


No, you, in your arrogance were downplaying a combat mission with a high ratio of kills as "not a major tank battle".  Gulf War I was incredibly important in showing that the US had armor and the tactics developed around it that were wildly successful.  You, being a dildo, intimated that training was more dangerous.  You were doing this, I suspect, because your (thank you for your service) military career as a pogue and faux-tactical expert on Fark has been  roundly shat upon by many people, from many MOSs in many posts.

And I do concede your point that aviation is dangerous.  That's what happens when you fight physics.  I would counter that you, as a ground based wrench monkey, were not exposed to the same level as say, pilots or 11B soldiers engaged in air assault training.  You know why?  Because you were a ground based wrench monkey.

Meh.  Enough with you.  Makin' my agent orange flare up.  Again, stop trying to act hard REMF.  You're just making yourself look silly.
 
2013-05-13 12:48:48 AM
Is Benghazi a scandal yet?
 
2013-05-13 12:50:07 AM

dlp211: Gyrfalcon: dlp211: SunsetLament: dlp211: SunsetLament: Gyrfalcon: SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ...

...because I know much better than the former Secretary of Defense how the military can respond to an attack! Why won't anyone listen to me?!!?!

Nope, I just agree with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson.  The problem is Lieutenant Colonel Gibson disagrees with Bob Gates.  When it comes to determining the capabilities of our members of the special forces, I'll lean towards the opinion of the Green Beret over the opinion of the IA at Langley turned career CYA risk adverse politician.  You don't like my opinion?  Take it up with the Gibson.

So can you point me to which quote you agree with Lt. Col. Gibson on?

Sure, Hicks testified that he asked Gibson why he wasn't on the plane to Tripoli and Gibson responded that two separate times he told someone higher than him in the chain of command that he and three other members of his team were leaving to go to Benghazi and both times the response was that the four men were not to get on the airplane.  Then Gibson told Hicks that this was (paraphrase - if you want the exact quote, Google is your friend) "the first time in his career that someone in the State Department (Hicks) had more balls than the military (whoever gave him the stand-down order)."

Now ... who gave him the order?  Let's get Gibson in front of Congress and find out.  I'm sure everyone wants to know.

So, do you know what a quote is?

And of course, there's no reason why Gates might have made up what Gibson told him, right? We know that those words are the unvarnished truth from the horse's mouth to the horse's ass.

I'm not quoting Gates quoting Gibson.  What Gates can testify to is the actual capabilities of the military.  Believe it or not, we don't just send our troops anywhere on a whim.  The amount of intelligence needed to put a Delta, SeAL, or Ranger team on the ground is huge.  The assets required to do so is beyond most civilian ...


That's amazing since seven guys flew in like cowboys and saved the thirty-something people in the annex.  Two of them lost their lives - Doherty and Woods.  Oh, and they killed about one hundred attacking terrorists.  So, yes, four may have made a difference.
 
2013-05-13 12:51:17 AM

tripleseven: Is Benghazi a scandal yet?


Well we've had another thread and few hundred more posts but still no explanation of what the scandal is so I'm going to with no Benghazi is not a scandal yet.
 
2013-05-13 12:54:41 AM

ongbok: Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.

Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?


Why would Obama lie?  Is that seriously your question?

The foundation of his entire campaign was "sure, the whole country's economy has been dogshiat since I took over, but at least I killed Bin Laden and took care of terrorism."  Then two months before the election, we had an Ambassador killed in the country Obama himself chose to de-stabilize.  Then you find out that we had military personnel begging to go there and try and save them and they were told "no."  If you can't tell why that makes him look like an incompetent dope and why he might want to hide it (for as long as he could, but at least until the election was over) then you're beyond help.
 
2013-05-13 12:55:08 AM

max_pooper: tripleseven: Is Benghazi a scandal yet?

Well we've had another thread and few hundred more posts but still no explanation of what the scandal is so I'm going to with no Benghazi is not a scandal yet.


Thanks for the cliff notes, these are tl;dr
 
2013-05-13 12:55:53 AM

max_pooper: tripleseven: Is Benghazi a scandal yet?

Well we've had another thread and few hundred more posts but still no explanation of what the scandal is so I'm going to with no Benghazi is not a scandal yet.


The scandal is that Obama downplayed the role of terrorism in the Benghazi attack for political purposes.

See, he had promised the world that he had defeated terrorism for good. But this attack proved that to be a lie. So he blamed it on some video, which covered his ass and opened the door for clamping down on freedom of speech. Also, he's Satan.

So...scandal. Duh.
 
2013-05-13 01:01:46 AM

SunsetLament: ongbok: Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.

Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?

Why would Obama lie?  Is that seriously your question?

The foundation of his entire campaign was "sure, the whole country's economy has been dogshiat since I took over, but at least I killed Bin Laden and took care of terrorism."  Then two months before the election, we had an Ambassador killed in the country Obama himself chose to de-stabilize.  Then you find out that we had military personnel begging to go there and try and save them and they were told "no."  If you can't tell why that makes him look like an incompetent dope and why he might want to hide it (for as long as he could, but at least until the election was over) then you're beyond help.


This is the kind of shiatty trolling that only a mother could love. Except she wouldn't. Actually she'd probably be deeply ashamed of this little game you play.

Christ man, why don't you just start posting sparkly pictures of crying bald eagles with your shiat. It would actually add to the credibility.
 
2013-05-13 01:03:17 AM

SunsetLament: ongbok: Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.

Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?

Why would Obama lie?  Is that seriously your question?

The foundation of his entire campaign was "sure, the whole country's economy has been dogshiat since I took over, but at least I killed Bin Laden and took care of terrorism."  Then two months before the election, we had an Ambassador killed in the country Obama himself chose to de-stabilize.  Then you find out that we had military personnel begging to go there and try and save them and they were told "no."  If you can't tell why that makes him look like an incompetent dope and why he might want to hide it (for as long as he could, but at least until the election was over) then you're beyond help.


I don't know how any of that makes him look like an incompetent dope when there weren't any military assets that could get there in time. Every military expert says the same thing.

Now again what did he have to gain about lying about how the attack started or who attacked like Popcorn claims?

By the way, Libya was already destabilized. They were already in the middle of a civil war. Obama had nothing to do with that.
 
2013-05-13 01:03:44 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Yeah, but in your arrogance, you were implying that aviation was somehow incapable of being dangerous.


When did he do that?

I don't mind debating politics with you - every Farker who votes in elections is entitled to their opinions. But stop trying to act like spending a whopping eight years pulling the trigger on your torque wrench has made you an expert on current Marine and JSOC capabilities or response times.

The pilots and door gunners in your time wore the same BDUs as the Army's cooks, the Air Force's band, and the clerks on a Navy Seabees base. And it looked exactly the same on servicemembers whether they voted Democrat or Republican. Your "coward" comment, combined with your political talking points, makes it pretty clear that you consider Fox News to be a source of journalistic integrity and unbiased information. Let us know when you climb down from the peak of Bullshiat Mountain and decide to see the real world.
 
2013-05-13 01:06:39 AM

Satanic_Hamster: So you're claiming to be from 6th Battalion, 159th Aviation Regiment.


The 159th didn't exist when I was in, it's the unit that was formed by my old unit when they reorganized the units at Giebelstat Army Airfield in the early 1990's.
 
2013-05-13 01:07:03 AM

GhostFish: SunsetLament: ongbok: Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.

Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?

Why would Obama lie?  Is that seriously your question?

The foundation of his entire campaign was "sure, the whole country's economy has been dogshiat since I took over, but at least I killed Bin Laden and took care of terrorism."  Then two months before the election, we had an Ambassador killed in the country Obama himself chose to de-stabilize.  Then you find out that we had military personnel begging to go there and try and save them and they were told "no."  If you can't tell why that makes him look like an incompetent dope and why he might want to hide it (for as long as he could, but at least until the election was over) then you're beyond help.

This is the kind of shiatty trolling that only a mother could love. Except she wouldn't. Actually she'd probably be deeply ashamed of this little game you play.

Christ man, why don't you just start posting sparkly pictures of crying bald eagles with your shiat. It would actually add to the credibility.


That may be the best explanation of why the Republicans' derp won't stick I've yet seen. It is the most concise collection of idiotic talking points anyone has accumulated in one place. It's got the economy, Libya (which was good, then bad, then good, then bad again even before Benghazi), the election, Obama's being a ruthless, malevolent thug and a useless dolt at the same time, AND the magical time machine--all in one tidy paragraph.

Kudos to a troll well done. He can crawl under his slimy bridge in triumph, or whatever trolls do instead. Unctiousness?
 
2013-05-13 01:09:47 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The 159th didn't exist when I was in, it's the unit that was formed by my old unit when they reorganized the units at Giebelstat Army Airfield in the early 1990's.


I should say, it didn't exist when I was at GAAF. The unit reorganized soon after I left.
 
2013-05-13 01:16:50 AM

SunsetLament: ongbok: Popcorn Johnny: ongbok: he repeated the information that was given to him by the CIA,

No he didn't, that's the entire point here. The CIA's first report on the incident indicated that it was an organized terrorist attack. The administration chose to not report that and said it was a demonstration over an internet video that got out of control.

Then why did he lie? What was the point of it?

Why would Obama lie?  Is that seriously your question?

The foundation of his entire campaign was "sure, the whole country's economy has been dogshiat since I took over, but at least I killed Bin Laden and took care of terrorism."  Then two months before the election, we had an Ambassador killed in the country Obama himself chose to de-stabilize.  Then you find out that we had military personnel begging to go there and try and save them and they were told "no."  If you can't tell why that makes him look like an incompetent dope and why he might want to hide it (for as long as he could, but at least until the election was over) then you're beyond help.


The conspiracy is so deep even the Pentagon is involved apparently since they discounted Hicks account of what happened.  Meanwhile in alternate-reality land saying our security forces couldn't handle a bunch of yahoo protesters sounds better than a well-coordinated and planned attack and Gadaffi was a stable and well-loved leader before Obama came along.
 
2013-05-13 01:19:20 AM
"No act of terror will dim the light of the values that we proudly shine on the rest of the world, and no act of violence will shake the resolve of the United States of America."
 
2013-05-13 01:25:47 AM
ongbok:

I don't know how any of that makes him look like an incompetent dope when there weren't any military assets that could get there in time. Every military expert says the same thing.


That's just factually inaccurate.  There was US military personnel in Tripoli and that's a two hour plane flight; that's how Doherty and Woods got to the annex in the first place.  A decision was made not to send military.  You're not even on the right liberal talking points anymore; the current set of talking points is that they couldn't be sent because there wasn't enough time to plan and prepare ... of course, the CIA was able to get reinforcements there from Tripoli (Doherty and Woods and five other guys), but hey that's the stupid argument they are currently going with.
 
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