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(The Raw Story)   Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates: Republicans have a "cartoonish impression" of US military capability. OH SNAP   (rawstory.com) divider line 596
    More: Interesting, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Benghazi, Special Forced, Bob Schieffer  
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6893 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2013 at 6:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-12 10:41:52 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: This thread reminds me of my time in the Army, jealous grunts angry over not being able to qualify for an aviation MOS. I'll leave you guys to your growing circle jerk, much like when I was serving, we tried to keep away from the unwashed masses in combat arms.

Sir Johnny bravely ran away!


Too bad that those "jealous grunts" would have been the guys who actually carried out any rescue attempts, while the mechanics got to cheer on from the safety of the shed. I think he should keep digging. He hasn't quite hit bedrock yet, and I think that if he just pushes deeper, he can win us over with his vast reservoir of experience and daring do of battling vicious hydrolics and the vast number of hexnuts that he's personally loosened...
 
2013-05-12 10:43:26 PM

Popcorn Johnny: This thread reminds me of my time in the Army, jealous grunts angry over not being able to qualify for an aviation MOS. I'll leave you guys to your growing circle jerk, much like when I was serving, we tried to keep away from the unwashed masses in combat arms.


Wife-like typing detected.
 
2013-05-12 10:46:43 PM
67V? A friggin' helicopter mechanic??? Really out there on the sharp end, huh?

Well, I know who to turn to when I need advice on ground combat-related matters.

/11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.
//Let's not get into an ASVAB score dick measuring contest. A 105 Mechanical Maintenance sub-score ain't exactly indicative of a rocket surgeon, ITG.
///Next up, JohnnyPopcorn talks about how he's "been there and done that"
////Did what exactly? Checked that bolts were tightened to proper torque specs? What a badass!
 
2013-05-12 10:48:11 PM

hubiestubert: Too bad that those "jealous grunts" would have been the guys who actually carried out any rescue attempts, while the mechanics got to cheer on from the safety of the shed. I think he should keep digging. He hasn't quite hit bedrock yet, and I think that if he just pushes deeper, he can win us over with his vast reservoir of experience and daring do of battling vicious hydrolics and the vast number of hexnuts that he's personally loosened...


I don't think I've seen a more effective pwning on Fark for quite some time. I suppose we'll need to be on the lookout for a new login called Butterlover's Frank or something.
 
2013-05-12 10:59:04 PM

Radioactive Ass: Philip Francis Queeg: well then tell us exactly what response time you think should been in place throughout the mid east. two hours? 4? 12?

4 to 5 depending upon the location would have been reasonable in my opinion (from getting the word to go until landing).

Karac: That's, at most, an hour and 45 minutes between the beginning of the attack and the death of the ambassador. You say that the military should have had someone standing by that could have saved their lives. One hour to just get to Benghazi is consistent with your requirement since they'd still need time to fight off the attackers.

Nice of you to admit that your own criteria are cartoonish.

What? That was not what my comments are addressing at all. I'm saying that apparently nobody even thought that it might be a good idea to have some people being more prepared than what they were on that particular date. I have already said that I don't know if it would have helped or not. Nobody else could have known that at the time or a week before that either for that matter. However they knew that the date had some importance and that there was already ongoing turmoil and apparently took no steps to prepare for the increased likelihood that someone might try something violent against some of our interests in the Middle East.


So, in your head, EVERY Embassy where there are Muslims near--you do realize that Islam IS indeed a world wide religion with adherents across the globe, and even in China and Europe, we should have had teams mobilized and ready to drop boots, just in case, when they had regular security--and in fact had that security downsized a bit thanks to budget cuts--on the possibility that there might be extra trouble on that particular day, as opposed to staff trying to assess the situation on the ground?  I just want to be clear on this vision that you have. Because, as I stated from the get go: you exemplify the exact cartoonish thought process that was being discussed, and again, I congratulate you on sticking to it, because some folks might realize the enormity of the task that they figure is just "good thinking" after the fact, but you Sir, you have abandoned any pretense of rational thought process, and are hard charging of the "just asking the questions" hill. Kudos. It takes a brave man to fly in the face of facts with such reckless abandon, and still posit such ponderous "questions"...
 
2013-05-12 11:01:21 PM

Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.


fark you, asshole.

My Dad was a Democrat and he volunteered to serve in Vietnam.
 
2013-05-12 11:01:28 PM

hubiestubert: Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: This thread reminds me of my time in the Army, jealous grunts angry over not being able to qualify for an aviation MOS. I'll leave you guys to your growing circle jerk, much like when I was serving, we tried to keep away from the unwashed masses in combat arms.

Sir Johnny bravely ran away!

Too bad that those "jealous grunts" would have been the guys who actually carried out any rescue attempts, while the mechanics got to cheer on from the safety of the shed. I think he should keep digging. He hasn't quite hit bedrock yet, and I think that if he just pushes deeper, he can win us over with his vast reservoir of experience and daring do of battling vicious hydrolics and the vast number of hexnuts that he's personally loosened...


Well, in SSG Popcorn's defense, FRH (hydraulic fluid) is pretty nasty stuff.

Oh, and to your earlier point, the Army used to exist in boxes like a video game...  3ID, 1AD, 11ACR and lots of others would sit, ready for the fight to start. Or course, that was during the cold war, and the mission of a lot of those soldiers was to die in place to give everyone else a chance to get to the party.

But, you know, keeping multiple heavy divisions around, silver bullets in ready racks, machine guns mounted and nothing more than back plates and buffer springs in the armory...  Totally like today.  We should have at least a battalion deployed around EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN American presence in the world.  That KFC in Hong Kong?  At least an infantry company in the bathroom.
 
2013-05-12 11:04:53 PM

MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.


22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?
 
2013-05-12 11:06:04 PM

Popcorn Johnny: we tried to keep away from the unwashed masses in combat arms


Probably why you seem to have no idea what's possible and how to go about it.

Probably why you're getting schooled here by those that do.

/not one of those that do except for a passing interest...
 
2013-05-12 11:06:09 PM

Radioactive Ass: Philip Francis Queeg: well then tell us exactly what response time you think should been in place throughout the mid east. two hours? 4? 12?

4 to 5 depending upon the location would have been reasonable in my opinion (from getting the word to go until landing).

Karac: That's, at most, an hour and 45 minutes between the beginning of the attack and the death of the ambassador. You say that the military should have had someone standing by that could have saved their lives. One hour to just get to Benghazi is consistent with your requirement since they'd still need time to fight off the attackers.

Nice of you to admit that your own criteria are cartoonish.

What? That was not what my comments are addressing at all. I'm saying that apparently nobody even thought that it might be a good idea to have some people being more prepared than what they were on that particular date. I have already said that I don't know if it would have helped or not. Nobody else could have known that at the time or a week before that either for that matter. However they knew that the date had some importance and that there was already ongoing turmoil and apparently took no steps to prepare for the increased likelihood that someone might try something violent against some of our interests in the Middle East.


You know nothing about how the military operates even when on alert.  4-5 hours.  It can take 1-2 hours to get a QRF team on the ground in Afghanistan when the team was already stood up and briefed.  That is getting a team in country.  You think that just because we are America, we can just start sending troops in without geopolitical repercussions?

The US military does not have the capabilities to put QRF teams all over the world ready to save Americans, not today, not on 9/11, and not any day in the future.  It sucks that 4 Americans dies, but because people made tough decisions, it was only 4 Americans.  It sucks, but sending people to go die to say we did something is foolish.
 
2013-05-12 11:08:14 PM

Popcorn Johnny: MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.

22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?


I think there maybe even more epoch pwnage yet still to come.
 
2013-05-12 11:09:35 PM
19 Kilo: Well, in SSG Popcorn's defense, FRH (hydraulic fluid) is pretty nasty stuff.

I now have him farkied (in Red 3) as "Overexposed to JP-8."

Oh, and to your earlier point, the Army used to exist in boxes like a video game...  3ID, 1AD, 11ACR and lots of others would sit, ready for the fight to start. Or course, that was during the cold war, and the mission of a lot of those soldiers was to die in place to give everyone else a chance to get to the party.

Given the size, nature, and bureaucracy of the DoD... The transition from a Cold War military to an asymmetrical conflict force was bound to be slow and painful. And we've failed to transition even more spectacularly than most of us could have ever imagined.

But, you know, keeping multiple heavy divisions around, silver bullets in ready racks, machine guns mounted and nothing more than back plates and buffer springs in the armory...  Totally like today.  We should have at least a battalion deployed around EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN American presence in the world.  That KFC in Hong Kong?  At least an infantry company in the bathroom.

Wow. That bathroom would smell terrible...
 
2013-05-12 11:10:25 PM

Popcorn Johnny: MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.

22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?


Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.
 
2013-05-12 11:10:32 PM

19 Kilo: Well, in SSG Popcorn's defense, FRH (hydraulic fluid) is pretty nasty stuff.


Tell me about it.
Least fun job ever: Pumping that cherry juice out of the well by hand after the gun decided to spring a leak. You pretty much have to sit in the damned well to do it.

/Are we good, or do you need to throw a "crunchy" or two at me?
 
2013-05-12 11:13:24 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.


Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.
 
2013-05-12 11:14:02 PM
Come on, Fark libs. Is it so hard to acknowledge that we should have employed our time-travel technology to predict and preclude the attack, or at the very least used our orbital teleportation platform to zap the secret quantum brigade into Libya at exactly the decisive moment?
 
2013-05-12 11:14:35 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


Your name is amazingly appropriate, right now.

Carry on, old boy.  This is high farking entertainment for a Sunday night.
 
2013-05-12 11:14:38 PM
Oh snap?  Don't you mean, "Yo, Joe!"
 
2013-05-12 11:14:58 PM
This is my favorite thread in a long while, even though I have no idea what any of these acronyms mean.
 
2013-05-12 11:15:18 PM

Radioactive Ass: ghare: Was it a problem last year on 9/11? The year before that? How about the year before that, year before that ,year before that, year before that, year before that, year before that, year before that, and year before that ?

Did we need them? What the hell makes you think this year was going to be different?

Like we said in the Navy, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. That's what this sounds like to me, a lack of prior planning. We did and had a lot of things that never got used for real life problems, that doesn't mean that it was a bad idea to do them. I've shot somewhere around 60 exercise torpedoes and countless waterslugs yet never shot a warshot at anyone in anger (nobody in the USN has in a very long time). Therefore the Navy should stop carrying torpedoes on their submarines.

The job of the military is to be ready in the event of something happening and then figuring out where those things are most likely to happen. Is Northern Italy a current hot spot or is the Middle East, especially on that date, the best place to have men and equipment available?


Your ass. It has your head in it.
 
2013-05-12 11:15:19 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


I see you are not a smart person. I guess cameron should just sit back and watch you get your ass handed to you again. I know it's going to be entertaining.
 
2013-05-12 11:15:29 PM

Popcorn Johnny: MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.

22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?


So you served in a low-density MOS, could do a mean two miles in your gym shorts and running shoes, and had time to work on your degree between beers in Germany. Want a trophy?
 
2013-05-12 11:15:35 PM

MustangFive: 67V? A friggin' helicopter mechanic??? Really out there on the sharp end, huh?

Well, I know who to turn to when I need advice on ground combat-related matters.

/11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.
//Let's not get into an ASVAB score dick measuring contest. A 105 Mechanical Maintenance sub-score ain't exactly indicative of a rocket surgeon, ITG.
///Next up, JohnnyPopcorn talks about how he's "been there and done that"
////Did what exactly? Checked that bolts were tightened to proper torque specs? What a badass!


Hey, somebody had to be there in the days when what the Apache did best was fall over on its side.
 
2013-05-12 11:16:19 PM

Popcorn Johnny: MustangFive: 11C & 11B, 22 years (so far), SFC, CIB, EIB.

22 years and a SFC? Your career seems to have stalled a bit, wouldn't you say? I was throwing a packet together for the SFC board when I decided to get out after 8 years.

So which of your infantry badges are you more proud of, the one given to all grunts who put boots on the ground in a combat zone or the one that requires you to do some half assed course that required such challenging tasks as applying a field dressing and throwing a hand grenade?


Ok badass.  You think your such a hot shot b/c you were going to put your packet in.  Last time I checked, putting a packet in meant nothing.  No one gets picked up on they're first look, especially not in 1994.  You want to come and try and earn a EIB, why don't you come down with my to GA and I'll set you up with some Ranger buddies and let's see how easy you think getting a EIB is.  Why don't you tell us about your Combat Mechanics Badge, oh wait there's no such thing because you got to chill out in some tent.

It's always the support MOS's with the big mouths that think that we can do anything and everything.  It was always the support blabbing about how badass they are and then letting the infantry guys clean up your mess.
 
2013-05-12 11:17:24 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


I didn't know they made a Call of Duty: Helicopter Mechanic. I gotta pick that up! Is it scary?
 
2013-05-12 11:17:28 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


I'm waiting for a Fobbit to show up and start talking shiat on you soon.
 
2013-05-12 11:18:51 PM

clkeagle: So you served in a low-density MOS


Yeah, the Army only had 9 helicopters and most of those were used for beer runs.
 
2013-05-12 11:19:14 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


Out of interest, where in Germany where you?

dlp211: It's always the support MOS's with the big mouths that think that we can do anything and everything.  It was always the support blabbing about how badass they are and then letting the infantry guys clean up your mess.


Not always. Just, you know, most of the time.
 
2013-05-12 11:19:56 PM

ksdanj: Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.

fark you, asshole.

My Dad was a Democrat and he volunteered to serve in Vietnam.


yeah but he was probably one of those Swiftboat pilots and we all know what cowards there were ,what with their purple hearts and commendations of valor.

i2.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-12 11:20:23 PM

dlp211: Ok badass.  You think your such a hot shot b/c you were going to put your packet in.  Last time I checked, putting a packet in meant nothing.  No one gets picked up on they're first look, especially not in 1994.


I was sitting at the top of the potential candidates for SFC, even with my short time as a SSG. I was pretty mush a shoe in to make SFC in a couple of years. Only took me 5.5 to make SSG.
 
2013-05-12 11:21:03 PM
God damn.  I'm glad I don't have ignore turned all the way up, because this shiat is entertaining.
 
2013-05-12 11:21:04 PM

Bootleg: Out of interest, where in Germany where you?


Giebelstadt Army Airfield.
 
2013-05-12 11:21:41 PM

Clutch2013: God damn.  I'm glad I don't have ignore turned all the way up, because this shiat is entertaining.


There are days when having a light ignore list has its advantages.
 
2013-05-12 11:22:05 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Bootleg: Out of interest, where in Germany where you?

Giebelstadt Army Airfield.


Clearly the front lines. I bet those hausfraus were intimidating!
 
2013-05-12 11:22:25 PM

Popcorn Johnny: dlp211: Ok badass.  You think your such a hot shot b/c you were going to put your packet in.  Last time I checked, putting a packet in meant nothing.  No one gets picked up on they're first look, especially not in 1994.

I was sitting at the top of the potential candidates for SFC, even with my short time as a SSG. I was pretty mush a shoe in to make SFC in a couple of years. Only took me 5.5 to make SSG.


blogs.westword.com
 
2013-05-12 11:24:17 PM

Clutch2013: God damn.  I'm glad I don't have ignore turned all the way up, because this shiat is entertaining.


I don't know if Popcorn Johhny realizes that everyone is laughing at him. He probably still thinks he's a badass who would have easily killed a hundred men with his bare hands if only he was given the chance. He's like the Uncle Rico of the army.
 
2013-05-12 11:25:29 PM

Clutch2013: God damn.  I'm glad I don't have ignore turned all the way up, because this shiat is entertaining.


You're only an M85 with a GHB, so what do you know?
 
2013-05-12 11:25:46 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Clearly the front lines. I bet those hausfraus were intimidating!


Well it was a combat aviation brigade, we had those cool *pew* *pew* type whirly birds and everything.
 
2013-05-12 11:26:06 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Bootleg: Out of interest, where in Germany where you?

Giebelstadt Army Airfield.


Huh. Nice area? I mean, it was in Germany, but how was it for somewhere in Germany?
 
2013-05-12 11:26:41 PM

Popcorn Johnny: dlp211: Ok badass.  You think your such a hot shot b/c you were going to put your packet in.  Last time I checked, putting a packet in meant nothing.  No one gets picked up on they're first look, especially not in 1994.

I was sitting at the top of the potential candidates for SFC, even with my short time as a SSG. I was pretty mush a shoe in to make SFC in a couple of years. Only took me 5.5 to make SSG.


You have no clue where you sit until you put a packet in.  The scoring for E7 changes every single year and is not MOS specific.  Stop lying to yourself.  I probably know more E7 in 7's then you know E7's total.  I know how the whole thing works.
 
2013-05-12 11:28:43 PM

Bootleg: Huh. Nice area? I mean, it was in Germany, but how was it for somewhere in Germany?


It was basically an airfield in the middle of miles of wheat and other farmer's fields. The nearest main city was Wurzburg. The cool thing about Germany was that even the small towns were fun to visit so we always had somewhere cool and interesting to go.
 
2013-05-12 11:30:05 PM

dlp211: It was always the support blabbing about how badass they are and then letting the infantry guys clean up your mess.


www.liberationfrequency.co.uk
 
2013-05-12 11:30:51 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Bootleg: Huh. Nice area? I mean, it was in Germany, but how was it for somewhere in Germany?

It was basically an airfield in the middle of miles of wheat and other farmer's fields. The nearest main city was Wurzburg. The cool thing about Germany was that even the small towns were fun to visit so we always had somewhere cool and interesting to go.


So, a lot like WAAF. Yeah, I perfered the Heidelberg area, myself, but I guess the countryside can be nice.
 
2013-05-12 11:31:09 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This is my favorite thread in a long while, even though I have no idea what any of these acronyms mean.


Me and all. Enjoying the GI Joe jokes though. I get those.

cameroncrazy1984: Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Dude, a smart person should know when he should stop posting.

Get out of here son, the veterans are taking shots at each other. Perhaps a nice game of Call of Duty would be more up your alley.


I didn't know they made a Call of Duty: Helicopter Mechanic. I gotta pick that up! Is it scary?

LOL. Okay I'm just gonna kick back and enjoy the show now.

[colbertpopcorn.gif]
 
2013-05-12 11:31:47 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: 19 Kilo: Well, in SSG Popcorn's defense, FRH (hydraulic fluid) is pretty nasty stuff.

Tell me about it.
Least fun job ever: Pumping that cherry juice out of the well by hand after the gun decided to spring a leak. You pretty much have to sit in the damned well to do it.

/Are we good, or do you need to throw a "crunchy" or two at me?


We're down like two flat tires.  No worries, yo.

Popcorn Johnny: clkeagle: So you served in a low-density MOS

Yeah, the Army only had 9 helicopters and most of those were used for beer runs.


Man, for someone without the beans to serve in a front line unit, you sure do know how to dig and keep digging.
 
2013-05-12 11:34:10 PM

Bootleg: So, a lot like WAAF. Yeah, I perfered the Heidelberg area, myself, but I guess the countryside can be nice.


Germany was a great place, I'd love to go back. We'd just hop in the car on the weekend with no idea most times where we were going and would always find something cool to do or interesting place to explore. I was lucky enough to be over there when the Berlin wall was coming down. Made the drive there and got to pass through Checkpoint Charlie while it was still around. Also chipped off a bunch of pieces of the wall for friends and family.
 
2013-05-12 11:35:48 PM
clkeagle:

[www.tacomlcmccommunityreport.com image 580x387]

You can never find a parking space at that mall.
 
2013-05-12 11:35:50 PM

19 Kilo: demaL-demaL-yeH: 19 Kilo: Well, in SSG Popcorn's defense, FRH (hydraulic fluid) is pretty nasty stuff.

Tell me about it.
Least fun job ever: Pumping that cherry juice out of the well by hand after the gun decided to spring a leak. You pretty much have to sit in the damned well to do it.

/Are we good, or do you need to throw a "crunchy" or two at me?

We're down like two flat tires.  No worries, yo.

Popcorn Johnny: clkeagle: So you served in a low-density MOS

Yeah, the Army only had 9 helicopters and most of those were used for beer runs.

Man, for someone without the beans to serve in a front line unit, you sure do know how to dig and keep digging.


His chosen tool:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-12 11:36:04 PM

Popcorn Johnny: cameroncrazy1984: Clearly the front lines. I bet those hausfraus were intimidating!

Well it was a combat aviation brigade, we had those cool *pew* *pew* type whirly birds and everything.


Oh wow really? And you got to change air filters! I bet that's the DLC for Call of Duty, right? So dangerous...
 
2013-05-12 11:36:31 PM

ongbok: HK-MP5-SD: There was a Marine detachment at the embassy equipped with M-4 assault rifles, shotguns, M203 grenade launchers, hand grenades, body armor, and  possibly a SAW or two.  I think that if the President or someone in their chain of command in the pentagon had ordered the marines, they might have loaned the special forces troops some hardware, don't you?

Too bad the attack didn't happen at the embassy, it happened at the consulate which because it was a consulate, isn't as heavily guarded.


Another poster claimed the 4 special forces soldiers in Tripoli could not help because they did not have the proper equipment.  i was just pointing out that the proper equipment was available in Tripoli.

Satanic_Hamster:
I can't tell if you're trolling or just an idiot.

What do you disagree with, the fact that the equipment existed in Tripoli, or that the Marines would have followed a direct order to allow other american troops to use that equipment?

max_pooper:
So you think that when a consulate is attacked the proper response would be disarm the embassy?

You may not know this, but the Marines' mission is not to defend the embassy from attack.  Their mission is to destroy classified documents in the event the embassy is overrun.  The physical security of the embassy is the responsibility of the host nation.  In any case, would reducing the weapons available to the marines by a small amount be worth it in exchange for a chance to rescue a missing ambassador?  Personally I think so, The special forces in Tripoli also apparently thought so, they were willing to try it even without the weapons from the embassy.

Karac:
Let's see .... Would the Marine CO loan out equipment to four guys so they can head into a situation with no backup and limited intel to save a consulate that had already been evacuated.  Or would he have kept every weapon he had pointing out over the walls of the embassy he was guarding in case of an attack there?

Decisions, decisions...


If he was ordered to loan out the equipment by the pentagon?  He would have loaned them out.  The military, they frown on disobeying direct orders.

demaL-demaL-yeH:
And what, exactly, do you think those four guys could have done against an unknown number of assailants with heavy weapons in a crowded city, even assuming they got there in time to do anything? And who would have taken on the mission they had already been assigned?

They could have started the four hour flight from Tripoli to Benghazi so in case the Ambassador who was missing called the embassy on the phone and said "I'm hiding in an abandoned building in Benghazi, send help!"
he wouldn't have to wait 5 hours for someone to come and get him.  Even if he did not call in, the military had 4 hours to gather intelligence before they arrived.  If they couldn't do anything when they got to Benghazi which in retrospect would have been the case, nothing would have been lost, However if he had survived the presence of  well trained special forces troops would have been huge.

As for the special forces troops previous mission, it would have had to wait.  When the Titannic hit the Iceburg, the crew stopped rearranging the deck chairs.

dlp211:
Oh, hey, another person that has no clue about military logistics.  First of all, SF isn't hostage rescue, they aren't infantry, they aren't equipped or trained to handle this type of situation.  Those 4 guys wanted to do the right thing, but were ill equipped to do so.  Second of all, why would the Libyans have let the SF team leave when they still hadn't let the CIA/Contractor team leave?  Third, why would you shift resources away from the embassy when the embassy is on alert?

First of all you have no idea which specific special forces units they were in.  Were they Army Special forces, Seals, Delta Force?  We don't know and never will.  They may not have been infantry, but they all almost definitely had basic infantry skills.  They were not equipped for the mission, but as I pointed out earlier the required equipment was available.  Were they trained for the mission? that would have depended on which specific special forces unit they were part of.  If they were seals or Delta the answer is a resounding Yes!  If the were army special forces the answer would depend on their previous duty.  Given the state of the world today, chances are good that they would have spent some time training Iraqi or Afghan soldiers in counter insurgency and hostage rescue techniques, so once again yes they would have had the required training.

19 Kilo:
So there was a marine detachment at the "embassy" that was a consulate and they didn't/couldn't fight off the crowd?  So, you're saying Marines are pussies?

The "embassy" is an embassy, is in Tripoli, had marines, and was never attacked.  The consulate was in Benghazi, had no marines and was attacked.  You are ignorant of current events, and geography should, look to educate yourself and refrain from commenting on issues you have no knowledge of until you do .
 
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