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(The Raw Story)   Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates: Republicans have a "cartoonish impression" of US military capability. OH SNAP   (rawstory.com) divider line 596
    More: Interesting, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Benghazi, Special Forced, Bob Schieffer  
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6896 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2013 at 6:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-12 07:42:02 PM  

glmorrs1: Halli: Radioactive Ass: hubiestubert: Thank you for illustrating exactly the mental deficiency and willful and proud ignorance that our Congresscritters are displaying. It was a brave choice to make yourself the example, and I commend you for your selflessness...

Thanks for that bit of derpiness on your part. I hope that if your area ever holds a WTO conference that your police dept goes "Meh, so what" and does nothing to prepare for it. Lets see how that might work out for you.

WTO is a bit different from a terrorist attack. Might have something to do with a fixed date and a location.


But, but, but... it was 9/11 you guys!  We should have known terrorists were going to attack the consulate in Libya on that day... because it was 9/11!  How do you not get that?
/amidoinitright


9/11 changed everything including making sure the US military is available any place on the globe instantaneously.  Study it out.
 
2013-05-12 07:42:22 PM  

SunsetLament: Subby realizes Hicks is a liberal Democrat, right?


Well that makes his idiotic comments more intelligent...or something.
 
2013-05-12 07:42:49 PM  
Goes along well with their cartoonish view of economics, sociology, morality...pretty much everything else.
 
2013-05-12 07:43:34 PM  
look, Hicks was to busy watching tv to answer the phone the first two times Stevens called, so give him a break
 
2013-05-12 07:43:41 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.


Given that conservatives never back any of their statements with facts, you are in the clear.
 
2013-05-12 07:44:39 PM  

clkeagle: The Abrams, great system that it is, has been all but useless in the more mountainous regions of Afghanistan. It would be no different in the Balkans, Alps, Himalayas, or Taebaeks. Nor is it useful in any kind of swampy marshland. And in urban settings - which are definitely the conflicts of the future - a platoon of tanks is nothing but collateral damage that can be used as enemy propaganda.


I don't know if I'd want to find an Abrams in the Alps.
 
2013-05-12 07:47:25 PM  

Bane of Broone: Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.

[sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk image 600x700]


Huh. Back in the eighties, when I voluntarily offered to give my life to my country in the Army if needed, I was a Democrat. Tell me, Johnny, when and where did you serve, and in what branch?
 
2013-05-12 07:47:48 PM  
I blame Michael Bay.  I know that's my stock answer for a lot of things, but stick with me here.  Remember early in the first Transformers movie -- hold on, don't pretend you didn't see it.  Remember early in the movie when the soldiers are fleeing across the desert and they're attacked by Scorponok?  One of them makes a credit card call and within an minute and a half, an AC-130 begins raining fiery death and saves teh day.

I'm convinced a lot of Benghazi derpers honestly believe the military works this way.  I remember early in the Benghazi story, there was an actual Freeper conspiracy theory about an AC-130 circling overhead which Obama personally told to stand down so as not to offend Muslims, or something.

Anyway, they seem to think this is how shiat actually works.  Which is why I blame Michael Bay.
 
2013-05-12 07:48:54 PM  

buckler: Bane of Broone: Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.

[sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk image 600x700]

Huh. Back in the eighties, when I voluntarily offered to give my life to my country in the Army if needed, I was a Democrat. Tell me, Johnny, when and where did you serve, and in what branch?


Johnny doesn't even vote.
 
2013-05-12 07:48:55 PM  

buckler: Tell me, Johnny, when and where did you serve, and in what branch?


US Army 1986 to 1994. Rank: SSG MOS: 67V

Served in Korea, Germany, Texas and Iraq.

Any other questions?
 
2013-05-12 07:49:52 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I don't know if I'd want to find an Abrams in the Alps.


You definitely don't want to find a stranger in the Alps.
 
2013-05-12 07:50:04 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: clkeagle: The Abrams, great system that it is, has been all but useless in the more mountainous regions of Afghanistan. It would be no different in the Balkans, Alps, Himalayas, or Taebaeks. Nor is it useful in any kind of swampy marshland. And in urban settings - which are definitely the conflicts of the future - a platoon of tanks is nothing but collateral damage that can be used as enemy propaganda.

I don't know if I'd want to find an Abrams in the Alps.


Do you see what happens when you find an Abrams in the Alps, Larry?
 
2013-05-12 07:50:40 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: buckler: Tell me, Johnny, when and where did you serve, and in what branch?

US Army 1986 to 1994. Rank: SSG MOS: 67V

Served in Korea, Germany, Texas and Iraq.

Any other questions?


Sure. How many Democrats were in your units, ya think?
 
2013-05-12 07:51:19 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: quatchi: That all noted, why is AfriCom still based in freaking Stuttgart, Germany?

I don't think we got that many advanced military bases in Africa.    The rights to land must be obtained, it needs to be secure, the facilities built, etc.  And truth be known resources are more easily obtained in Germany.  Sure people will have to be flown were needed, but that would still be true if it was actually based in Africa.  Africa is a big place and the base is unlikely to be put in an actual trouble spot.


I get why the US can't put an advanced base in place in Israel or Egypt or SA despite being the biggest recipients of aid in that region but I still think Germany is too far away.
 
2013-05-12 07:52:01 PM  
Also, it's the bad kind of cartoon, too. Not a hip, cool cartoon like Archer, or a crude, snarky cartoon like South Park, or a classic like Loony Tunes, or even a once-great, now slowly-winding-down series like The Simpsons. No, we're talking a very, very bad cartoon, like Clutch Cargo, or one of those cut rate Japanimation pieces of crap that are more storyboard than animation and are filled with repetitive dialog like, "Now I must continue my quest to collect the seven sacred pieces of the dragon amulet because when I have collected them all I will have fulfilled my quest by finding all the pieces and then I will have the whole amulet and my quest will be completed." No, wait, it's more like the kind of cartoon a marginally talented eight-year-old would make by doodling some figures on the edge of the pages in a notebook and then flip through them really fast, only he has attention deficit disorder and gave up after only ten pages or so. Basically, what I'm saying here is that Republicans are just farking retarded, and if there's anything other than a test pattern and a monotone blaring inside their heads, I'd be pretty surprised.
 
2013-05-12 07:52:09 PM  
Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ... if an American Ambassador in a war zone says "We are under attack" you don't fark around and say "Oh, well, we don't have a plan in place so we can't help." - you farking send whatever you have available and improvise and do your best.  Gates' comments are embarrassing.  Anybody who believes what Gates said is too farking incompetent to be in a leadership position in our military (or federal law enforcement); end of story.  You don't leave people on the battlefield (where it may be) because you haven't farking gameplanned out all the scenarios.  And while we're at it; this was an consulate in the middle of one of the most dangerous places in the world ... why wasn't there a farking "Holy shiat we're under attack, we need to save a mass of people who have been driven out of the buildings IMMEDIATELY" plan?

Embarrassing.
 
2013-05-12 07:53:03 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.


Which is why during the last Republican administration, the only people with confirmed kills during the Vietnam years were a career military general and the First Lady.

Maybe we should have sent Laura over there with a '63 Chevy and a bottle of Night Train.
 
2013-05-12 07:54:53 PM  
glmorrs1: Really? 'Cause you sure are acting like ITT.

Yes really. I've been there and done that for 8 years. It's time consuming and a huge hassle which is why we stopped doing it when it was no longer needed. Now it might not have made a difference in this particular case if a few select units were on a better footing, however to apparently have nobody going through the motions just in case reeks of incompetence by someone.


Going through what motions?  Deploying half the farking military to everywhere on the goddamn planet, every goddamned year, just because the date happens to be 9/11?  I mean correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not), but that is what you areadvocating here.
 
2013-05-12 07:55:10 PM  

SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ... if an American Ambassador in a war zone says "We are under attack" you don't fark around and say "Oh, well, we don't have a plan in place so we can't help." - you farking send whatever you have available and improvise and do your best.  Gates' comments are embarrassing.  Anybody who believes what Gates said is too farking incompetent to be in a leadership position in our military (or federal law enforcement); end of story.  You don't leave people on the battlefield (where it may be) because you haven't farking gameplanned out all the scenarios.  And while we're at it; this was an consulate in the middle of one of the most dangerous places in the world ... why wasn't there a farking "Holy shiat we're under attack, we need to save a mass of people who have been driven out of the buildings IMMEDIATELY" plan?

Embarrassing.


So whose word should I value more, someone who has been in the military for decades and is the Secretary of Defense...or some guy on the internet?

Yes...let's just throw more people into the situation without thinking about it. Because evaluating the pros and cons of a situation is for pussies.
 
2013-05-12 07:56:51 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: I suggest you look at a map some time, because Turkey is as far away from Libya as Italy is. But we have military bases in the UAE, maybe they could... damn, that map ruins everything!

It is a big farking planet, and unlike your hindsight psychic abilities, we can't actually predict in advance what day terrorists will attack on (would you have predicted 9/11 prior to 2001?).


No, of course not. However I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying either. Context matters.

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Forces stationed in Turkey would've still been a thousand kilometers away, you know.


Yes, I can read a map. My point was and is that nobody thought to follow the 6 P's.

Halli: WTO is a bit different from a terrorist attack. Might have something to do with a fixed date and a location.


See above.

Philip Francis Queeg: Tell us, what deployments would have been necessary to have US forces on alert to deploy anywhere in the middle east within one hour on that day? How many planes, ships and troops deployed in what locations. Be specific about your solution to this problem that you believe to be so simple and obvious.


To deploy within an hour? Well, if you tell your people to be ready to go ahead of time they can do what it is that they know is going to be needed and have it ready to go. As to specifics that would be relative to the particular command. Again, it's not that we don't have things ready to go 24/7. it's that on that one date in particular it appears that nobody thought that maybe having at least some people ready for just that one day just in case might be a good idea.

hubiestubert: Please. Do go on. Were ALL embassies across the globe supposed to go on high alert, with air assets ready to buzz the tower? Was it just the ones where there might be some brown people, or the ones with a LOT of brown people near? What about those where there were dirty Commies? What about areas where ethnic cleansing had occurred? Was it just the ones where there were Muslim populations? Please, break down who was supposed to be on high alert, with Special Forces teams ready to extract, and which bases should have been covering who, and how the Embassies were supposed to coordinate with the military, and visa versa, especially in the face of cuts to their security staff, and likewise, please show your work on how the Department of State supersedes the command structure of the Defense Department's personnel.


Read what I replied to at first:

"We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East - despite all the turmoil that's going on - with planes on strip alert, troops ready to deploy at a moment's notice. And so, getting somebody there in a timely way would have been very difficult, if not impossible."

My question is why the hell not, at least for that one day of the year? Especially when you acknowledge that you know that there is turmoil going on at the time. I have no idea if they could have helped or not but to not have been a bit more prepared is idiotic. If I had not kept my gear ready to go and it was actually needed I would've had my ass handed to me by my CO and rightfully so.
 
2013-05-12 07:59:11 PM  

buckler: Sure. How many Democrats were in your units, ya think?


Well since we didn't sit around talking politics, I wouldn't really know. You do realize that the split of those who identify themselves as a republican or democrat is pretty much an even split, right? No idea what point you're trying to make here.
 
2013-05-12 07:59:16 PM  

Radioactive Ass: See above.


Uh huh. Clearly the US Military should get you into captain hindsight division.
 
2013-05-12 07:59:29 PM  

clkeagle: That would explain the thought behind $2.8 billion dollars allocated for improved Abrams tanks... when we have two thousand mission-capable tanks (and thousands of other tracked vehicles like these 113-series) sitting unused in the Nevada desert:

[www.tacomlcmccommunityreport.com image 580x387]

Somewhere deep in the minds of Republicans is a fantasy. In that fantasy, we are lining up divisions of tanks and storming across the fields, deserts, or woods in a major symmetrical conflict. When in reality, the future will consist of very small skirmishes in who-knows-what terrain.

The Abrams, great system that it is, has been all but useless in the more mountainous regions of Afghanistan. It would be no different in the Balkans, Alps, Himalayas, or Taebaeks. Nor is it useful in any kind of swampy marshland. And in urban settings - which are definitely the conflicts of the future - a platoon of tanks is nothing but collateral damage that can be used as enemy propaganda.


The conservatives (bless their hearts!) are still fighting the second world war with John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart. It seems like they are unwilling to know how the world has changed in the last sixty-plus years. They certainly haven't figured out this internets stuff.
 
2013-05-12 07:59:39 PM  

Fart_Machine: Four special forces guys in God Mode could have totally spawned in and pwnd that mob.


Especially with noclipping.  They could have come from every angle.
 
2013-05-12 08:00:41 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Again. That particular date is one where one would expect trouble expressly directed at US targets abroad, moreso than any other date 9/11 tops the list. The Cole date (to use an example) is nowhere near being as symbolic as 9/11 in that regard.


It's not a football play where Obama makes a call, and terrorists make a call, and they both run at the same time and see who executes better, nor is there anything that requires terrorists to put their mortar shells away for 12 months if they see increased security in Tripoli.  If the ultimate goal is "destroy American Embassy in Libya", they wait until the security levels decrease.  If the ultimate goal is do something on 9/11, they (for example) drop a bomb in the streets and hope that the security detail starts shooting civilians up.

This is Monday morning quarterbacking of the highest order.  Did people make mistakes?  Obviously.  Was it obvious the day of?  Unclear. As another poster mentioned above, it's not like there were attacks on us embassies/consolates/interests regularly on 9/11.  The night of the Boston bombing it was clearly evident to Fark that the BPD erred by not having drug sniffing dogs and removing trash cans from the marathon route, right up until the bombs weren't in garbage cans and the police had drug sniffing dogs out.  Then it was obvious that the Saudi kid who was running away was part of the plot (it's still obvious to Glenn Beck).  Then when the photos of the suspects came out it was obvious that the police needed to be looking for a Pakistani and a Turk or possibly a Libyan and an Iranian.

And now it's just obvious that the feds should have been watching the Tsarnaevs.
 
2013-05-12 08:01:03 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: buckler: Sure. How many Democrats were in your units, ya think?

Well since we didn't sit around talking politics, I wouldn't really know. You do realize that the split of those who identify themselves as a republican or democrat is pretty much an even split, right? No idea what point you're trying to make here.


Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. Any Democrat willing to actively enter a combat role is, by definition, not a coward. Your original statement fails.
 
2013-05-12 08:02:41 PM  

buckler: Any Democrat willing to actively enter a combat role is, by definition, not a coward. Your original statement fails.


My comment was directed towards the current administration, not people that serve in the military.
 
2013-05-12 08:02:56 PM  

Radioactive Ass: hubiestubert: Thank you for illustrating exactly the mental deficiency and willful and proud ignorance that our Congresscritters are displaying. It was a brave choice to make yourself the example, and I commend you for your selflessness...

Thanks for that bit of derpiness on your part. I hope that if your area ever holds a WTO conference that your police dept goes "Meh, so what" and does nothing to prepare for it. Lets see how that might work out for you.


Considering that most after-action reportage of WTO conferences shows evidence that most of the trouble during the conference is instigated by the police?  Might actually help if they schlepped off to the donut shop and let people protest.

4.bp.blogspot.com

/I'm sure all the 'violent' protestors just happen to buy the same footwear from the same place as the local police department.
//I know I do, doesn't everyone?
 
2013-05-12 08:04:02 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Well since we didn't sit around talking politics, I wouldn't really know.


Yet you "know" Demorats are cowards.
 
2013-05-12 08:04:29 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: buckler: Any Democrat willing to actively enter a combat role is, by definition, not a coward. Your original statement fails.

My comment was directed towards the current administration, not people that serve in the military.


Is next week when Obama is a blood thirsty drone tyrant?
 
2013-05-12 08:04:39 PM  

SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ... if an American Ambassador in a war zone says "We are under attack" you don't fark around and say "Oh, well, we don't have a plan in place so we can't help." - you farking send whatever you have available and improvise and do your best.  Gates' comments are embarrassing.  Anybody who believes what Gates said is too farking incompetent to be in a leadership position in our military (or federal law enforcement); end of story.  You don't leave people on the battlefield (where it may be) because you haven't farking gameplanned out all the scenarios.  And while we're at it; this was an consulate in the middle of one of the most dangerous places in the world ... why wasn't there a farking "Holy shiat we're under attack, we need to save a mass of people who have been driven out of the buildings IMMEDIATELY" plan?

Embarrassing.


so how long did it take for the first quick reaction team to arrive?
 
2013-05-12 08:07:29 PM  
Pffft Popcornn Johhny is trying to come across as some hard core warrior, dbag was a scout helicopter mechanic, probably wasn't even rated as aircrew. Must have really seen the elephant in peace time Korea, Germany,Texas and the 72 in the Gulf, huh Johnny? And after in 8 years in a technical field you only made SSgt.? Total loser by an services standards.
 
2013-05-12 08:08:17 PM  

Halli: Is next week when Obama is a blood thirsty drone tyrant?


I've never knocked Obama for taking military action, have I?
 
2013-05-12 08:08:33 PM  

BSABSVR: A Dark Evil Omen: They should have just dispatched Solid Snake. He totally would have kicked the Bengayzee's asses. Sam Fisher, Commander Shepard or Kirby would also have been acceptable choices.

Number of times my Call of Duty Clan [AKFU] was called by Obama: 0

And with an average K/D ration of 15:1, I think we know a little something about a) how to take out a mob. and B) That it only takes .8 seconds to call in an airstrike.  Don't even get me stared on how to thin out a crowd by spamming bouncing bettys.


Yes. A million times yes.
 
2013-05-12 08:11:08 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Wolf_Blitzer: I suggest you look at a map some time, because Turkey is as far away from Libya as Italy is. But we have military bases in the UAE, maybe they could... damn, that map ruins everything!

It is a big farking planet, and unlike your hindsight psychic abilities, we can't actually predict in advance what day terrorists will attack on (would you have predicted 9/11 prior to 2001?).

No, of course not. However I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying either. Context matters.

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Forces stationed in Turkey would've still been a thousand kilometers away, you know.

Yes, I can read a map. My point was and is that nobody thought to follow the 6 P's.

Halli: WTO is a bit different from a terrorist attack. Might have something to do with a fixed date and a location.

See above.

Philip Francis Queeg: Tell us, what deployments would have been necessary to have US forces on alert to deploy anywhere in the middle east within one hour on that day? How many planes, ships and troops deployed in what locations. Be specific about your solution to this problem that you believe to be so simple and obvious.

To deploy within an hour? Well, if you tell your people to be ready to go ahead of time they can do what it is that they know is going to be needed and have it ready to go. As to specifics that would be relative to the particular command. Again, it's not that we don't have things ready to go 24/7. it's that on that one date in particular it appears that nobody thought that maybe having at least some people ready for just that one day just in case might be a good idea.

hubiestubert: Please. Do go on. Were ALL embassies across the globe supposed to go on high alert, with air assets ready to buzz the tower? Was it just the ones where there might be some brown people, or the ones with a LOT of brown people near? What about those where there were dirty Commies? What about areas where ethnic cleansing had occurred? Was it just the ones where there were Muslim p ...


To be on scene within one hour so that they can actually intervene.  List every deployment needed
 
2013-05-12 08:11:56 PM  

SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ... if an American Ambassador in a war zone says "We are under attack" you don't fark around and say "Oh, well, we don't have a plan in place so we can't help." - you farking send whatever you have available and improvise and do your best.


In an alternative universe where the Obama administration sends a bunch of randoms into Libya without any planning whatsoever:

"So Obama just sends underarmed, unprepared teams into the middle of a freaking bloodbath without any regard for the fact that he is essentially sending people off to die?  And F-16s?  A fast-attack dogfighter without the turning radius to provide adequate ground support?  What, did he think that hardened terrorists were just going to run in fear at a loud noise?  What should have been a tragedy that lost us 4 people cost us dozens and did nothing but embolden terrorists all over the middle east that even the best of the best the US has are fish in a barrel so long as Zero McEars commands them"
 
2013-05-12 08:12:00 PM  

Fart_Machine: 9/11 changed everything including making sure the US military is available any place on the globe instantaneously. Study it out.


Not what I said at all. Study it out yourself.

glmorrs1: Going through what motions? Deploying half the farking military to everywhere on the goddamn planet, every goddamned year, just because the date happens to be 9/11? I mean correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not), but that is what you areadvocating here.


Not half, not even close. maybe, maybe half a dozen small units and their support who are at least prepared and aware of what may be asked of them. When it takes 24 hours to get stuff gathered up and transported less than 1,000 miles away (I'm not even talking about heavy equipment, I'm saying trained guys with standard weaponry greater than a 9mm pistol and some light body armor) then there was a problem that should be addressed.
 
2013-05-12 08:14:15 PM  
Did they mention scrambling F-16's from Aviano to get there in less than an hour while pulling off a 100ft MACH 1.5 flyby?
 
2013-05-12 08:14:23 PM  

Radioactive Ass: fusillade762: Budget cuts. And ask yourself who was responsible for those.

The men get paid the same no matter where they are. Budget cuts aren't going to change that. Nice try though.


Budget cuts don't change that, you're right. But when you cut the State Department's budget so that they can't afford to have a decent standing force of Marines at each consulate, you're sort of responsible when that lack of Marines leads to a consulate getting over run.
 
2013-05-12 08:15:13 PM  

SunsetLament: Listen, I don't give a fark what Gates said ... if an American Ambassador in a war zone says "We are under attack" you don't fark around and say "Oh, well, we don't have a plan in place so we can't help." - you farking send whatever you have available and improvise and do your best.  Gates' comments are embarrassing.  Anybody who believes what Gates said is too farking incompetent to be in a leadership position in our military (or federal law enforcement); end of story.  You don't leave people on the battlefield (where it may be) because you haven't farking gameplanned out all the scenarios.  And while we're at it; this was an consulate in the middle of one of the most dangerous places in the world ... why wasn't there a farking "Holy shiat we're under attack, we need to save a mass of people who have been driven out of the buildings IMMEDIATELY" plan?

Embarrassing.


Gates' assessment is spot on. A military response would have placed more troops in harms' way... and more importantly, placed more Libyan civilians in harms' way. If the Libyan government was unwilling to respond with their own forces, we were best to stay away.

In response to the bolded portion - there is an answer, but has nothing to do with any current administration official. The simple fact is that the State Department, Defense Department, and CIA don't coordinate their efforts. And that goes well beyond any single consulate or imminent-danger area. It's not a scandal, but a systemic problem that needs to be fixed by both Congress and the respective federal agencies up to the Cabinet.

The attacks happened. They are finished. A witch hunt isn't going to improve our response to the next attack. That will only be solved by sitting down representatives from multiple agencies with representatives from their respective Congressional committees. They need to figure out how to communicate with each other... how to coordinate their threat assessments, how to share intelligence, how to allocate security resources, and how to deal with attacks and other contingencies. Whatever it takes.

A central database of current operations, capabilities and threats - with inputs from all involved parties? I'm not saying that a Marine captain needs to know the nature of a CIA clandestine operation - but maybe he/she needs to know that the CIA are doing something in a given city, and there needs to be an efficient way to get a message from one to the other.

Security and facility resources allocated by specific threat ratings? A policy that says all consulates are temporarily closed at a specific threat level, and all personnel and assets are recalled to the closest embassy? Maybe even include the host nation on that policy... an understanding that if we say these guys are leaving the consulate right this second - you will provide us clear street and airspace, no questions asked.

It seems like the people in power could figure out how to do it, if they would only surrender their little fiefdoms and put some time and effort into it.
 
2013-05-12 08:16:01 PM  
Looks like Gates hit a nerve, Fark Benghazimongers are in a tizzy.
 
2013-05-12 08:17:15 PM  

brainiac-dumdum: Looks like Gates hit a nerve, Fark Benghazimongers are in a tizzy.


Sunset's response was hysterical.
 
2013-05-12 08:17:26 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Not what I said at all. Study it out yourself.


I was using snark but your suggestion is almost as ridiculous.
 
2013-05-12 08:17:53 PM  

VictoryCabal: I blame Michael Bay.  I know that's my stock answer for a lot of things, but stick with me here.  Remember early in the first Transformers movie -- hold on, don't pretend you didn't see it.  Remember early in the movie when the soldiers are fleeing across the desert and they're attacked by Scorponok?  One of them makes a credit card call and within an minute and a half, an AC-130 begins raining fiery death and saves teh day.

I'm convinced a lot of Benghazi derpers honestly believe the military works this way.  I remember early in the Benghazi story, there was an actual Freeper conspiracy theory about an AC-130 circling overhead which Obama personally told to stand down so as not to offend Muslims, or something.

Anyway, they seem to think this is how shiat actually works.  Which is why I blame Michael Bay.


If our schools taught science and logical thinking more gooder, then people would walk out of Michael Bay movies because they are full of plot holes and blatant physics violations.

Yes, yes, movie.  But there's suspension of disbelief, and then there is hanging it by the neck until dead and then hitting it with sticks until the candy comes out, and nobody questions why a fresh corpse is full of candy.  Then the candy explodes, for no adequately explored reason.
 
2013-05-12 08:18:53 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: buckler: Any Democrat willing to actively enter a combat role is, by definition, not a coward. Your original statement fails.

My comment was directed towards the current administration, not people that serve in the military.


OK...some examples?
 
2013-05-12 08:19:58 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Halli: Is next week when Obama is a blood thirsty drone tyrant?

I've never knocked Obama for taking military action, have I?


So your whole act consists of not making sense. Got it.
 
2013-05-12 08:20:26 PM  

Bane of Broone: buckler: Bane of Broone: Popcorn Johnny: And democrats are cowards so I guess it all evens out.

[sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk image 600x700]

Huh. Back in the eighties, when I voluntarily offered to give my life to my country in the Army if needed, I was a Democrat. Tell me, Johnny, when and where did you serve, and in what branch?

Johnny doesn't even vote.


JOHNNY DON'T SURF!
 
2013-05-12 08:20:54 PM  

Gyrfalcon: In the same way, sure, four of our Special Forces guys were willing to go to Benghazi, and there was a C-130 that could have taken them, and it's a 4-hour flight from Tripoli-


And what seldom gets mentioned is that the four Special Forces guys in Tripoli weren't equipped for combat. They were on a fact-finding mission, and armed only with 9mm sidearms.  No rifles, no body armor, no grenades, no comm equipment. Dropping off four officers armed with pistols to fight their way through a crowd armed with AKs - gee, what could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-05-12 08:22:36 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: buckler: Any Democrat willing to actively enter a combat role is, by definition, not a coward. Your original statement fails.

My comment was directed towards the current administration, not people that serve in the military.


Because that was easily identifiable in your original statement. Keep moving those goalposts.
 
2013-05-12 08:23:05 PM  

Mrtraveler01: So whose word should I value more, someone who has been in the military for decades and is the Secretary of Defense...or some guy on the internet?

Yes...let's just throw more people into the situation without thinking about it. Because evaluating the pros and cons of a situation is for pussies.


And if we did what the troll said and all the troops responding died, I'm sure he PROMISES he wouldn't freak out and call for Obama's murder trial for sending in the troops like a moron.

To the other right wingers:
To be able to cover all areas we'd need dozens of bases in every country of the world and a much larger military so they can sit around on shifts on standby.  This would cost a lot of money and piss off the world due to the hundreds/thousands of military bases we'd need for this.   Which would lead to more and more attacks.

Which would cost a huge amount of additional money.

And in the mean time, every right wing politicians, pundits, and think tank is demanding that close all overseas bases and bring those troops back to the states.
 
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