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(Chicago Trib)   Wisconsin High School: "our gym is run down and doesn't have air conditioning, let's have graduation at a local church." Supreme Court: "Not so fast, Fuzzy Lumpkins"   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 24
    More: Interesting, supreme courts, Wisconsin, local churches, air conditionings, 1st amendment, Muslim Mosque, graduation, establishment of religion  
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3132 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2013 at 3:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-12 02:07:46 PM
5 votes:
My high school graduation was held in a Catholic church with Jesus prayers and a Catholic priest officiating, and nobody complained about it.

/maybe because it was a Catholic high school.
2013-05-12 01:35:46 PM
5 votes:
photos1.blogger.com

doesn't appreciate being dragged into murky legal disputes.
2013-05-12 02:01:14 PM
3 votes:
Many many years ago, when the earth was still cooling and the moons orbit had yet to stabilize, I graduated from a Wisconsin HS that had no AC in the gymnasium.  Despite stifling heat and humidity up on the stage and the beers we drank in the park before the ceremony, we somehow survived the event.

Maybe these folks should stop being such wusses.
2013-05-12 06:41:44 PM
2 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: You're comparing apples and toasters.


*whynotboth.jpg*

www.easyvegan.info
2013-05-12 04:07:09 PM
2 votes:
My friend's son graduated from high school last year, and the ceremony was held at a church.  When I asked why, he replied, "Welcome to Georgia!"
2013-05-12 02:48:46 PM
2 votes:
FTFA: They said holding school events in church buildings is common around the country, and they argue that the mere presence of religious symbols does not "establish" an official religion.

i.imgur.com

Like a source in TFA said, the Becket people would totally lose their shiat if it was held in a mosque, a temple, a gurdwara or synagogue Try rotating the religious buildings used and see if everyone is really cool with it. Its greater Milwaukee--so there are plenty of other options. Not to mention a local park or civil auditorium.
2013-05-12 02:46:21 PM
2 votes:
This will be extra convenient if a last-minute wedding is needed after the math teacher impregnates the Salutatorian
2013-05-13 01:48:20 AM
1 votes:
I am way too late to this thread for anyone to even take notice but i have been a lurker on this site for so long that when ever an article is posted here about something i have first-hand knowledge of i am compelled to respond.

my mom brought me to Elmbrook Church from the time i was too young to remember till the time i was old enough to demand an alternative. i grew up there. it is one scary and very farked up place. not in a haunted house way. in a stepford wives way.

it is a mega-church, and pridefully so, in every sense of the word. my mom sought grief counseling and was manipulated and emotionally abused by the pastoral staff into believing that my dad left her because she didn't provide a warm and wholesome enough alternative to the fast and fun lifestyle he craved (drugs and sluts. dad loved 'em).

my brother was in the middle school fellowship program run by a "popular and charismatic" youth leader (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1683&dat=19991030&id=hK caAAAAIBA J&sjid=Wy8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5584,1853698) who years later committed suicide by wrapping his head in plastic after he was found to have molested kids in his charge. as a quick google search will reveal, this was not the first or last time the youth fellowship program was corrupted by perverts.

i am not a fundie and never have been but my mom is and was, though even she wouldn't step foot in this church again.

i don't have only negative views of the place. there were plenty of other interesting kids i met who were similarly compelled to attend by their hoodwinked parents. the highlights of my spiritual upbringing include my first hit of pot, my first taste of 'tang, and a healthy cynicism of anything and everything "evangelical."

as a former taxpayer in the state of wisconsin, in no farking way would i support any money, taxpayer or otherwise, continuing to fund this cult. i can understand why people would want to rent the space. it's massive and pristine. it doesn't even have as much religious iconography as your run-of-the-mill Catholic church. but it is a blight on southeastern wisconsin and an embarrassment to any self-respecting spiritual person, Christian or otherwise.

use the farking gym, New Berlin. It might be uncomfortable in warm weather but you should be way more uncomfortable using this temple of false prophecy
2013-05-13 01:29:36 AM
1 votes:
Churches rent school space all the time somehow they are able to get Jesus in and and out before the weak-minded can be overcome with fear that Government is establishing a religion.
2013-05-12 11:41:12 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Christians should "stop and think about how it would feel if their high school graduation ceremonies were held in a Jewish temple or Muslim mosque, where diplomas were handed out beneath a looming Star of David or Islamic crescent," said Ayesha Khan, legal director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the winning plaintiffs.

I did stop and think of how that would feel, and I quite honestly would feel nothing.  It's a farking building, complain when they start preaching to you.  If you're as sensitive to the presence of crosses and "holy ground" as some b-movie vampire, then nobody should take you seriously, and you quite honestly have failed at life.

Do you speak for all two billion Christians?

There are people in America, lots of them, that boycott stores who say "happy holidays."  You bet your ass plenty of Christians would shiat a brick - f*ck, they'd shiat the Great Wall of China - if they heard graduation was going to be held at mosque.  How you feel isn't relevant.


So my opinion doesn't count, but the imaginary Christians in your head do?  Ok there, Derpy McDerptard.
2013-05-12 11:14:20 PM
1 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: Mrtraveler01: It's farking WI in springtime, how hot does it get up there?

It might be 85 and humid or 35 and windy, we're never sure.  It's more that you can't have that many people who, let's face it, aren't skinny in that amount of space.


Tonight, there is a frost warning.  Low of 32, high of like 50 tomorrow.  On tuesday, the high should be 82.

Also known as...

4/30/13 - 81 degrees
5/3/13 - 4 inches of snow
5/5/13 - 74 degrees
2013-05-12 04:12:19 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: TwoHead: Let me get this straight...you are so tough that freedom loving Americans having their rights infringed

What right is being infringed?

There is a right of freedom of religion, there is no right of freedom from seeing a religious symbol.


He's afraid if he sees a cross, he'll suddenly love Jesus, I guess.
2013-05-12 04:06:36 PM
1 votes:

DarwiOdrade: ecmoRandomNumbers: DarwiOdrade: On the other hand, why can't we have nicer schools? Do we value our children and their education so little?

Is this rhetorical, or an actual question?

A little of both - if you have a good answer I'd like to hear it.


The fact the state of WI took a hatchet to the education budget probably didn't help fix the gym that is falling apart.
2013-05-12 04:03:32 PM
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: DarwiOdrade:On the other hand, why can't we have nicer schools? Do we value our children and their education so little?

Because we cant disenfranchise the job creators and unfortunately it seems like we do unless we loan them the money for their education. Then it is valued VERY highly at 3.75% interest


Gah, I meant it was unfortunate that we value education so little. Please don't think I believe taxes on the wealthy would be unfortunate, lol.
2013-05-12 04:02:18 PM
1 votes:
DarwiOdrade:On the other hand, why can't we have nicer schools? Do we value our children and their education so little?

Because we cant disenfranchise the job creators and unfortunately it seems like we do unless we loan them the money for their education. Then it is valued VERY highly at 3.75% interest
2013-05-12 04:00:02 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: FTFA: They said holding school events in church buildings is common around the country, and they argue that the mere presence of religious symbols does not "establish" an official religion.

[i.imgur.com image 492x348]

Like a source in TFA said, the Becket people would totally lose their shiat if it was held in a mosque, a temple, a gurdwara or synagogue Try rotating the religious buildings used and see if everyone is really cool with it. Its greater Milwaukee--so there are plenty of other options. Not to mention a local park or civil auditorium.


Not to mention it's Elmbrook, you get top flight HVAC people out there like a shot just by passing the hat at a PTA meeting,
2013-05-12 03:59:31 PM
1 votes:

cman: School should have known better although I really doubt their intentions were to force people into praising Jesus.


They were going to take a page out of Carrie, and trick some Muslim kid onstage and dump a big bucket of holy water on them, while a priest ran up and baptized them.
2013-05-12 03:40:28 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: If the church and the school agreed I can't imagine why it would make the news, but then there is no shortage of hypersensitive ninnies out there who have to complain about everything.


Right.  It's easier to believe that covering up the cross was suggested and rejected than to believe no one ever thought of it.
2013-05-12 03:16:56 PM
1 votes:

remus: I'm left wondering if they could have just hung some curtains up to conceal the church symbols.  I've seen events held at various locations where they used a lot of fabrics to cover up the walls, etc. and hide the underlying facility.

Well, evangelicals have no problem covering up offensive images, like naked women.  They'll even use taxpayer money to do it, lest the Attorney General inadvertently lust after a 20' tall aluminum strumpet.


i159.photobucket.com

But I have a feeling that doing that to a cross would be a War on Christianity™ or religious persecution or something.

2013-05-12 03:14:27 PM
1 votes:

maxalt: I still wonder what 1st amendment was supposed to mean..  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. No law means leave the people alone, but the Supreme court cried in their collective beers because people were worshiping G*D and not the state.


It seemed rather clear.
No state religion.
You can be any religion that you want.
You can pray to any god you want.
Or no god at all.

If you are confused about what that means look up religious persecution and read about the Taliban, Saud Arabia, China, USSR, recent Coptic Church attacks, or any number of cases in recent history where people died because they refused to follow the state LAWS on religion.

or, even simpler
travel to saud arabia
stand in the street on a busy day and proclaim that islam is false religion, that mohammed is a false profit and that JESUS IS GOD.
write back to us with pics
we will wait here where it is safe
2013-05-12 03:08:16 PM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: So it's in good enough shape to educate kids but not enough for a ceremony. Ok, got it


THIS

TwoHead: Many many years ago, when the earth was still cooling and the moons orbit had yet to stabilize, I graduated from a Wisconsin HS that had no AC in the gymnasium.  Despite stifling heat and humidity up on the stage and the beers we drank in the park before the ceremony, we somehow survived the event.

Maybe these folks should stop being such wusses.


THIS

Saborlas: "Hey, lets make sure our gym is never suitable for graduation ceremonies! Then we can have them in a church, so we can put the unbelievers in their place!"


THIS

CruiserTwelve: My high school graduation was held in a Catholic church with Jesus prayers and a Catholic priest officiating, and nobody complained about it.

/maybe because it was a Catholic high school.


THIS!

Nabb1: The traditional graduation ceremony where I went to college is outdoors in the sweltering heat of May,


THIS

DarwiOdrade: ecmoRandomNumbers: DarwiOdrade: On the other hand, why can't we have nicer schools? Do we value our children and their education so little?

Is this rhetorical, or an actual question?

A little of both - if you have a good answer I'd like to hear it.


Because the money which should be spent on schools is being spent on churches.
Public or private, people determine where assets are allocated. They are choosing to spend money on magic sky potatoes, rather than education.
(Couldn't they have upgraded their school gym and rented the gym out to the church on the weekend? LOLOLOL)

So now for a couple of quick questions which were NOT addressed in the article:
1) how much is the school paying to rent the church?
2) if they are renting the space, then public money is being given to a private church and I have HUGE problems with this on many levels.
3) free or for a fee, do they make the space available to other groups for the same cost? why not?

shudder
It would be awesome if SCOTUS came down 9-0 against this and used one and all of the arguments presented here.
1) farkem, do it outside or in the stuffy gym like everyone used to do
2) you WANT CHURCH in your education, do like you are supposed to do, private religious schools.

HOW FARKING HARD IS THIS???

Do you notice that this is almost always protestants breaking this law and not Catholics?
Farking cheap stealing bastards.

/the final joke on those assholes would be establishing Roman Catholic as the one true faith of America!!!!!
2013-05-12 02:46:57 PM
1 votes:

Uranus Megahertz: Rent the church gym, keep the religion out of it. Sure I'm fine with it.


Giving tax payer money directly to the chuch.  Yeah, that's legal.
2013-05-12 02:25:14 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: My high school graduation was held in a Catholic church with Jesus prayers and a Catholic priest officiating, and nobody complained about it.

/maybe because it was a Catholic high school.


The courts don't really have too much of a beef with bible thumping at private schools. It's when all the Jesus pageantry is happening at a public school (paid for by taxpayer dollars) that makes the courts go full activist.

Likewise for groups like the ACLU, FRFF, etc. You can violate Matthew 6:5-6 to your heart's content and they won't even bat an eyelid at you, just so long as you don't spend so much as one penny in public funds to do so.
2013-05-12 01:45:57 PM
1 votes:
"Hey, lets make sure our gym is never suitable for graduation ceremonies! Then we can have them in a church, so we can put the unbelievers in their place!"
 
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