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(Washington Post)   ☒ $100 for a carry on bag ☒ $1.99 for coffee? ☒ $200 change fees? ☑ Fark it, let's drive   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, finance director, coffee, US Airways  
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16342 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2013 at 10:23 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



256 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-05-12 08:33:23 AM  
One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status: If you have status with most of the major airlines, you don't have to pay a checked bag fee for the first two bags. Luckily I am Gold with United for life (1 Million Miler).

So if you fly often, it pays to stick with one airline to achieve status. But often status doesn't do anything for change fees unless you are at the very top tiers - on United you would have to be 1K or Global Services for the change fees to be waived or reduced.

If you buy a non-refundable fare it is going to be $200 to change it. It is a completely arbitrary fee - they oversell most flights so if you have to cancel, it doesn't really negatively affect the airline...
 
2013-05-12 08:46:17 AM  
Drive from where to where, exactly?
 
2013-05-12 08:51:39 AM  

joshiz: One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status


Because most people don't fly enough to get that.
 
2013-05-12 08:55:41 AM  

doglover: joshiz: One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status

Because most people don't fly enough to get that.



I kind of wonder if that's part of the motivation behind all these: squeeze out the infrequent traveller who flies once a year, if that, and usually on tickets they got at a deep discount.  Or, at least, heap these extra charges on them to balance out their cheap-ass ticket.
 
2013-05-12 09:17:00 AM  
The "fat bastard" fee isn't far off now.
 
2013-05-12 09:22:08 AM  

jake_lex: doglover: joshiz: One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status

Because most people don't fly enough to get that.


I kind of wonder if that's part of the motivation behind all these: squeeze out the infrequent traveller who flies once a year, if that, and usually on tickets they got at a deep discount.  Or, at least, heap these extra charges on them to balance out their cheap-ass ticket.


What they should do is try raising the prices on the frequent fliers.

You want a blankie? The first one's free. You want blankets every time? farking show me the money.
 
2013-05-12 09:49:19 AM  
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/the-navigator-fee-h ap py-airlines-raise-the-bar-again/2013/05/09/12fa4d74-b68c-11e2-b94c -b684dda07add_story.html?tid=ts_carousel

I saw that pop up before I clicked the link, and I thought an airline was going to start charging a "navigator fee."

I hope no one from the airlines are reading this, because, you know...
 
2013-05-12 10:07:16 AM  
I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.
 
2013-05-12 10:13:27 AM  
I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!
 
2013-05-12 10:26:24 AM  

dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?


From here to there
 
2013-05-12 10:27:06 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


Can't get there from here.
 
2013-05-12 10:27:53 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


Exactly.
 
2013-05-12 10:29:04 AM  
If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.
 
2013-05-12 10:30:04 AM  
Here's a hint for the millions of morans out there: Buying something based purely on lowest price tends to be a very expensive way of doing things.
 
2013-05-12 10:30:14 AM  
Get a pilots licence and fly without the mess.

There are international treaties that cover baggage.  If they charge you and it is illegal, call the credit card company who should refund all the charges so you get a free trip.
 
2013-05-12 10:30:23 AM  
Exactly what I intend to do for a 1200 mile trip this summer.  Fark you airlines.
 
2013-05-12 10:32:05 AM  

MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.


yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.
 
2013-05-12 10:32:43 AM  
If its under a 5-6 hour drive, I drive. If its longer, I fly.
 
2013-05-12 10:33:01 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


Specifically? "♫ ♬  Over the river and through the woods, To grandmother's house we go...♫ ♬ "
 
2013-05-12 10:33:07 AM  

namegoeshere: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Can't get there from here.


Edith, you dingbat.

I'm United gold premier, and did need to pay a change fee once (I was lucky enough to be on eastern long island throughout "superstorm nemo", it was not awesome), but they also upgraded me to the front for that flight several days in advance (never saw that before). That was nice. cheers
 
2013-05-12 10:34:21 AM  

edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.


My "driving bubble" has increased dramatically.  Last year, I drove from Atlanta to Cape Cod.  This year will be Atlanta to DC.  Wifey and I make the drive part of the vacation and do touristy things along the way and not just at the destination.
 
2013-05-12 10:35:01 AM  
Self driving cars will kill airlines for flights less than 500. If the choice is you can either arrive at the airport an an hour early, get groped by the TSA have the inevitable 30 minute delay then a 90 minute flight in the middle seat between two sumo sized passengers or get in your self driving car listen to the radio or an audio book for 5-6 hours I'll choose the car every-time.
 
2013-05-12 10:35:07 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


Southwest treats you better than most airlines.
 
2013-05-12 10:35:08 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.
 
2013-05-12 10:35:13 AM  
I'm soo glad that we have high speed rail over here.
 
2013-05-12 10:36:17 AM  

iron_city_ap: If its under a 5-6 hour drive, I drive. If its longer, I fly.


8 hours is where I *start* to consider a flight.

Boston to Baltimore next week. 7 hours by car from home to hotel, 7 by plane including security, and that's just from airport to airport. Why bother?
 
2013-05-12 10:36:29 AM  
"How's the 'let's keep all the serfs out of the easy travel access loop' thing working out?"

"Excellent."

"Good.  Let me know when Monsanto patents all food sources and then we can roll the tanks on everybody taking home less than a phone number a year."

"Man, I gotta tell you, I thought this would be a lot harder."
 
2013-05-12 10:36:49 AM  
That's it, from now on I'm going to pay Maersk to put me in a box. And shipping is already so cheap I don't mind the extra fee to not lose my container overboard in the middle of the Atlantic.

I don't know what to do inside North America though... the Mississippi has shipping traffic right? Has anyone here survived in a steel box floating up the Missouri? It's something to try.
 
2013-05-12 10:37:04 AM  
Anytime I travel to where I will be visiting friends or family and there is a baggage fee I pack ahead of time and UPS or Fed-Ex my stuff to them, which typically costs $40 to $50. I can then fly with my purse only.
 
2013-05-12 10:38:03 AM  

Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.


It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.
 
2013-05-12 10:39:44 AM  
As far as $1.99 for a cup of coffee, or even a drink of water, the airline can do that.  It's a way of saying, "Fark you, we want to squeeze very last nickel out of you that we possibly can," but they can do it, however stupid.

My expectation is that next they will say you can't bring any outside beverages on board with you, because TERROR.  Even though you had to buy them inside the airport after passing security.  Then the coffee/soda/water goes to $2.99, then $5.99, then $10.99.
 
2013-05-12 10:39:56 AM  

liam76: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

Southwest treats you better than most airlines.


never had a problem with American Eagle.
 
2013-05-12 10:40:24 AM  

Carth: Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.

It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.


Lots of Youtube videos showing violent UPS deliveries.  I don't know how well my camera would take a 10 foot toss onto a porch.
 
2013-05-12 10:41:07 AM  
Amtrak or driving. Took amtrak from vermont to dallas.  4 days, one way, but you know what?  The journey was more than half the fun..  And they are adding wi-fi on most of their lines soon.

Loved it, and it was WAY cheaper.  4 bags free,  2 checked, 2 carryons.
 
2013-05-12 10:41:23 AM  
Buy suit.  Get hired as CEO.  Squeeze every last penny from the plebes from behind a stone wall.  Pay the workers sh*t.  Tank company.  Pull ripcord.  Repeat.
 
2013-05-12 10:42:36 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


I fly for buisiness...a lot. I always hear that argument about Southwest but I don't understand it. I get treated the same with SW as I do with any other airline.

If you're referring to the seating arrangements somehow, I can tell you its not the big deal some drama queens make it out to be.
 
2013-05-12 10:42:40 AM  
Domestically I don't understand why anyone flies on anything but Southwest.  Didn't seen them on the list of bilkers, did you?  Oh, you want an assigned seat and don't want to wait in line?  Get over it.  If you want to throw away hundreds to be pampered for a few hours you might as well fly first class.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:04 AM  
As someone who's soon going to fly for the first time since Nov. 2001, I am apprehensive.  Seems getting on an airplane is like going into hospital; you don't know if you'll come out alive or bankrupt.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:09 AM  
I haven't flown in 20 years and unless someone else is paying and wants me there fast that's not likely to change. Maybe I'm a cheapskate or something but it's just too expensive and I really enjoy driving. I'm a firm believer in the saying "Getting there is half the fun." and flying just sucks the fun right out of it.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:19 AM  

MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.


My last move was 2000 miles. My girlfriend and I flew Southwest. $130 after taxes and fees and we each had two giant bags of stuff that we needed while waiting for the rest of our possessions to arrive.

Driving is not a welcome alternative for me. Most of my trips are 1000+ miles and I'm alone or with one other person. I generally pay around $250 for a ticket for the destinations that I frequent. It costs much more in gas, a hotel, food, and my time than the airfare does.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:53 AM  

RickN99: Carth: Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.

It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.

Lots of Youtube videos showing violent UPS deliveries.  I don't know how well my camera would take a 10 foot toss onto a porch.


UPS offers insurance up to $50,000 if you declare the amount when you ship it. Airlines typically won't cover anything over a few hundred. If your camera equipment costs more than $50k you should consider flying private or break it up into two shipments.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:58 AM  

ajgeek: The "fat bastard" fee isn't far off now.


It's coming in about five years, is my guess. And the irony is it's going to screw the people that have been demanding it, as well as tall people. Carriers are reported to be planning to make coach aisle seats 2 inches wider, while making non-aisle seats 1 inch narrower to compensate. Coach prices will remain the same for the narrower seats, while they're increased for the wider aisle seat.
 
2013-05-12 10:43:59 AM  
I haven't flown since 2005, when I retired from my first career and started my current business. I drive or I don't go. Living in the SF Bay Area makes the entire Left Coast accessible in one (longish) day for my wife and I. We simply hop into our Golf TDi and blast up or down I-5 to family functions near Seattle or to visit the grandkids in Portland or Tucson. For less than a hundred bucks each way the two of us can go anywhere up or down the coast in one day. No airline comes anywhere close to that convenience.
 
2013-05-12 10:44:00 AM  

historycat: Amtrak or driving. Took amtrak from vermont to dallas.  4 days, one way, but you know what?  The journey was more than half the fun..  And they are adding wi-fi on most of their lines soon.

Loved it, and it was WAY cheaper.  4 bags free,  2 checked, 2 carryons.


Ain't nobody got TIME fo' dat!
 
2013-05-12 10:44:19 AM  

raerae1980: I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!


Airfares have dropped consistently since deregulation in 1978 and are now 50% cheaper.

Air travel used to be a luxury. Now it's like a flying bus.
 
2013-05-12 10:45:11 AM  
travel it its own is a luxury if you can afford it.

the public screamed for lower ticket prices, and we got them...but this is a by-product.

so either ship your clothes, bring your own coffee maker, plan accordingly, or accept the fees because you are the customer accepting this five hour coast to coast service in the first place.
 
2013-05-12 10:45:18 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


I don't really understand the 'you get treated like cattle' attitude. I have flied Southwest a lot because my hubby had their companion pass (with me as the companion flying free wherever he went) last year. Yea, you have to line up in groups. I fly other airlines for business (but not enough to get any status) and their boarding process is just a huge mob of people and whoever is the pushiest gets on first. 'Group 2' now boarding- oh great 100 people who all are supposed to get on the plane at the same moment. To make thing worse, since checking bags costs $$ everyone wants to bring two gigantic carry ons.
 
2013-05-12 10:45:44 AM  
You know how it used to be that companies went out of their way to deserve your business, and now they just figure out how  necessary their commodity is - flight, petrol, ISP access, food -  and then keep ganking you more and more for the "privilege", every year?  You know how we, as consumers, keep trying to find workarounds for this thievery?  Well, I've looked into it and as soon as you start playing chess with these motherf*ckers, you've already blown it and it will never get any better.
 
2013-05-12 10:46:32 AM  
Meh -- I'm 31 and have only flown maybe 7 or 8 times in my life so i largely don't give a crap. If you are a business traveler -- you probably don't care because you either: 1) aren't paying for it or 2) can write it off.

I do however fully support massive fees for the fat farks that weigh 350lbs and require two seat belt extenders. It's the family of 10 that's flying on some uber cheap "can barely afford the gas in their car" that needs to be pushed out as well. These are the people that cheap out on every decision, but still expect the service of a platinum level.

Last trip i took was a 1 way to pick up my Z06 in Houston - i could have flow spirit for cheap and tried to dodge an assload of fees, I opted to pay the extra 50 bucks for the ticket with American that already included everything I needed.
 
2013-05-12 10:49:34 AM  
Computer driven cars are going to really hurt the airlines business.  When you hop in the car, type in your destination and let google drive you there, there will be no reason to fly to a destination that is less than a 6 hour drive.  And the savings for a group will mean people might drive even longer distances to save money.
 
2013-05-12 10:49:35 AM  
"...change fee represents a combination of the cost to change a ticket and the missed revenue opportunity from potentially having an empty seat...."

So they don't oversell flights?

Have to take my family of 5 from PHL to Colorado Springs this summer. It's crazy that I'm having to have a debate with myself about whether we should drive or fly.
 
2013-05-12 10:50:08 AM  

spidermilk: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I don't really understand the 'you get treated like cattle' attitude. I have flied Southwest a lot because my hubby had their companion pass (with me as the companion flying free wherever he went) last year. Yea, you have to line up in groups. I fly other airlines for business (but not enough to get any status) and their boarding process is just a huge mob of people and whoever is the pushiest gets on first. 'Group 2' now boarding- oh great 100 people who all are supposed to get on the plane at the same moment. To make thing worse, since checking bags costs $$ everyone wants to bring two gigantic carry ons.


Most people who complain about Southwest have elite status on at least one airline. The change in that case is going from your elite airline where you board by yourself, get greeted by name and shown to your seat and then brought over a glass of wine or beer while the flight attended takes your coat and carry on and asks if you want a pillow or a snack while the rest of the plane boards. Then you have southwest where you stand in line for 15-20 minutes scramble for 2 seats together then look frantically for overhead space because the family of 8 that preboarded took up  half the plane with all their crap for their herd of children.
 
2013-05-12 10:50:19 AM  

liam76: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

Southwest treats you better than most airlines.


And as an added bonus their process lets them board the plane faster and in the end is a lot more logical. I flew Delta last week and a bunch of people were sitting in the wrong seats (I have no idea why, it seems they just couldn't understand how the seats were labeled but it caused a huge slowdown clusterfark in the boarding process). People who booked together didn't have seats next to each other (Yea, this is probably their fault for not understanding how to switch their seats, but maybe it also means Delta should make the process a little more logical). On both flights people asked if they could trade seats with me to sit with the person they were traveling with.
 
2013-05-12 10:50:34 AM  
My wife and I are planning on going from the Milwaukee area to Ruckersville VA. in August for a wedding, and we only plan on being there for the weekend.  Flying round trip, with tickets purchased now, is $485 per person.  We figured out that between flights (plural - no non stop available) security and other 'delays' it would take us about 10 hours to fly.  I know we can make the drive in 13 hours.

Rent a car for the trip is about $175 for a full size or luxury class car.  Gas will be about $250 for the round trip.  That makes driving there and back $425 plus food stops.  That is $60 cheaper than 1 of the 2 tickets to fly out there.

Methinks I will be driving out and back.  So what if I have to add an extra day on each side of the trip.  Its all the vacation I will get this year anyway.
 
2013-05-12 10:52:00 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


Ok, how do I get from Heathrow to JFK by car?
 
2013-05-12 10:52:06 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


Being treated like cattle is an upgrade compared to how most airlines treat you these days.  If you can get first class you get upgraded to "being treated like a household pet."
 
2013-05-12 10:52:27 AM  
One airline used to advertise 'bags fly free'.  But they still charged me full fare for my mother-in-law.

Seriously Mom, happy day today.  May I have my head back?

rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-05-12 10:52:31 AM  

Carth: RickN99: Carth: Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.

It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.

Lots of Youtube videos showing violent UPS deliveries.  I don't know how well my camera would take a 10 foot toss onto a porch.

UPS offers insurance up to $50,000 if you declare the amount when you ship it. Airlines typically won't cover anything over a few hundred. If your camera equipment costs more than $50k you should consider flying private or break it up into two shipments.


How does having insurance stop it from being stolen or broken?  Which was your point, I believe -- that those things would not happen with UPS.
 
2013-05-12 10:54:17 AM  

Chevello: "...change fee represents a combination of the cost to change a ticket and the missed revenue opportunity from potentially having an empty seat...."

So they don't oversell flights?

Have to take my family of 5 from PHL to Colorado Springs this summer. It's crazy that I'm having to have a debate with myself about whether we should drive or fly.


The part I hate is having to visit family that are 1500 miles away. Flying is the only reasonable option right now (young kids). But, I just had to shell out two grand for airfare. Next time family needs to come out to us (unlikely) or we can drive to a location halfway between the two families.

Doing round trip drives is highly unfeasible only because you will spend most of your week off driving....
 
2013-05-12 10:54:43 AM  
www.ridelust.com

/Mandatory.
 
2013-05-12 10:54:47 AM  
Gore says that the only reason airlines can charge such high fees is "because passengers are so passive about it."

Exactly why everything is so damned expensive in this country. People are passive. Remember when gas prices started going through the roof in 2003? There were some sporadic protests, including some truckers blocking a freeway somewhere, and widespread grumbling, but people soon shut up and just bought gas. After all, what's the alternative, unless you want to pony up big bucks for an electric car or plug-in hybrid? In some other countries, if gas was hiked that much, protests would bring the entire infrastructure to a standstill until some big wig did something about it. Not here, though.

The result? After enjoying a couple of decades of $1-$1.30 gas (remember, there was also a big deal because most pumps weren't even programmable to register over $1.99 a gallon?), $3.50-$4 a gallon is now considered a "normal" price for gas. Of course, this extra cost for fuel spills over into pretty much everything else we buy, including airfare. But no one complains, especially not the Gulf oil states, who are building ever more extravagant digs in places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

And ole W sits back at his Texas ranch and smirks.
 
2013-05-12 10:55:24 AM  
Carth: ... or broken by baggage throwers.

So you have flown with Northworst before I see...
 
2013-05-12 10:56:10 AM  

DON.MAC: Get a pilots licence and fly without the mess.

There are international treaties that cover baggage.  If they charge you and it is illegal, call the credit card company who should refund all the charges so you get a free trip.


This my 172 with extended 52 gallon tanks roughly 500 nautical miles depending on conditions headwind etc. costs less than $300 at $6.50 a gallon.

/Always try to have a 1 hour reserve
 
2013-05-12 10:56:18 AM  
$100 for a carry on bag

www.aerojockey.com

/passeners holding up the line so they can cram their oversized bags in the overhead bin are the most annoying thing about flying
 
2013-05-12 10:56:25 AM  

joshiz: So if you fly often, it pays to stick with one airline to achieve status. But often status doesn't do anything for change fees unless you are at the very top tiers - on United you would have to be 1K or Global Services for the change fees to be waived or reduced.


UA actually does not offer waived change fees for any elite members. There are scattered reports that people with Global Services status can get change fees waived with even a mediocre excuse, and that people with 1K status can get change fees waived with a good excuse and a sympathetic agent, but I have been about 1 for 20 on that front as a 1K.

On the other hand, if you fly 40k miles on Alaska Airlines, you become "MVP Gold" and don't have to pay their $75 change fee.
 
2013-05-12 10:56:27 AM  
don't like capitalism?

so go setup and run your own airline, comrade
 
2013-05-12 10:57:07 AM  

RickN99: edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.

My "driving bubble" has increased dramatically.  Last year, I drove from Atlanta to Cape Cod.  This year will be Atlanta to DC.  Wifey and I make the drive part of the vacation and do touristy things along the way and not just at the destination.


That's a beautiful drive too.
 
2013-05-12 10:57:23 AM  
It was better in the old days, before airlines started trying to squeeze every penny out of you.

www.aei-ideas.org

Oh.
 
2013-05-12 10:58:59 AM  

RickN99: Carth: RickN99: Carth: Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.

It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.

Lots of Youtube videos showing violent UPS deliveries.  I don't know how well my camera would take a 10 foot toss onto a porch.

UPS offers insurance up to $50,000 if you declare the amount when you ship it. Airlines typically won't cover anything over a few hundred. If your camera equipment costs more than $50k you should consider flying private or break it up into two shipments.

How does having insurance stop it from being stolen or broken?  Which was your point, I believe -- that those things would not happen with UPS.


My original statement was you don't have to worry about it getting stolen or broken, not that it never happens.

If something happens to your UPS order you buy a replacement off Amazon, get it the next day and you'll get all your money back vs an airline your SOL.  My point wasn't that it will never get stolen or broken but that it isn't a problem if it does since you are reimbursed in full value.
 
2013-05-12 10:59:15 AM  

letrole: don't like capitalism?

so go setup and run your own airline, comrade


With hookers, and blackjack.
 
2013-05-12 10:59:58 AM  

Easy Reader: RickN99: edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.

My "driving bubble" has increased dramatically.  Last year, I drove from Atlanta to Cape Cod.  This year will be Atlanta to DC.  Wifey and I make the drive part of the vacation and do touristy things along the way and not just at the destination.

That's a beautiful drive too.


The way up to DC will be through the Shenandoah -- one of my favorite drives.
The way back will be through Richmond and Petersburg to do some Civil War things.
 
2013-05-12 11:00:06 AM  

cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.


Hilarious.  So not having an assigned seat is being treated like cattle, huh?  Other than that and lack of fees they're exactly the same as flying economy on any airline.  And if you're not flying economy you're either ridiculously wealthy, flying on someone else's nickel, or probably one of those doofuses who drives a Beamer and has nothing left for his 401(k).  Whichever it is, there's not much point in talking sense to you.  Have fun with your $100 carry-on fees.

But hey, if you need to feel special that badly even Southwest lets you throw some extra money away to go to the head of the line.  Then you can look back at all the cattle in the B line and think "Ha, ha.  I'm getting on first", while they all look back at you and think, "Moron."
 
2013-05-12 11:00:23 AM  

Earguy: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/the-navigator-fee-h ap py-airlines-raise-the-bar-again/2013/05/09/12fa4d74-b68c-11e2-b94c -b684dda07add_story.html?tid=ts_carousel

I saw that pop up before I clicked the link, and I thought an airline was going to start charging a "navigator fee."

I hope no one from the airlines are reading this, because, you know...


Next:  Having-a-pilot fee.
 
2013-05-12 11:00:36 AM  
Have driven three round trips between NJ and Chicagoland on business in the last couple of years, about 13.5 hours driving time each way including stops. That's not even close to the point I'd consider flying.
 
2013-05-12 11:00:55 AM  

cookiefleck: liam76: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

Southwest treats you better than most airlines.

never had a problem with American Eagle.


This, amazingly enough. I've taken a few Eagle flights lately and the staff is always friendly, polite, and helpful.
Actually next week I have one leg with the mainline (AA) and three with Eagle. I'm kind of looking forward to it.
 
2013-05-12 11:01:12 AM  

edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.


THIS!

Although I've taken vacations with my friend who had a Ford Explorer and we did a straight overnight run from Milwaukee out to Denver, CO. It was probably one of the most fun and memorable trips I've ever done and I would recommend someone who doesn't mind sleeping in the back of a vehicle to do this some day! We both tooks turns driving/sleeping, we listened so some awesome tunes, snacked, talked about crazy stuff, had some audio books with us and overall just had a grand time during the drive! It was WAY more memorable than any air trip I've taken! (cheaper in the long-run too as we stopped at cheap places to eat and split the gas costs).
 
2013-05-12 11:01:58 AM  
A $200 fee for a seat you are going to vacate, which they will fill with someone else ?
That some serious money for nothing for the airlines isn't it ?
If I reserved a seat and chose not to fly that day, would they fill my space I reserved ?
If so, I want the money the person payed the airlines, hey, it was my reserved space wasn't it ?
Just being an ass on Mothers day
Carry on.......
 
2013-05-12 11:02:29 AM  

letrole: don't like capitalism?

so go setup and run your own airline, comrade


How about we remove the regulation letting only US owned airlines fly between domestic destinations instead? If we could have Cathay Pacific or lufthansa fly us NY to LA i bet other airlines would have to improve their service pretty quick.
 
2013-05-12 11:03:08 AM  

ajgeek: The "fat bastard" fee isn't far off now.


Good.

/bastard
//not fat
 
2013-05-12 11:03:11 AM  
Fees I would support:

Screaming baby fee
Failure to control your kids fee
Loud annoying voice fee
Drunk asshat fee
 
2013-05-12 11:03:21 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


What if I don't want to go there?
 
2013-05-12 11:03:34 AM  
Meh, I fly JetBlue and have never had a problem.

My peeve is carryons. Airlines need be enforce the rule and even reduce the acceptable size for carryons.

Oh, and women that stuff those floor length down coats in the overhead bins, filling it completely: fark you. The flight's going to Boston, not Moscow in January.
 
2013-05-12 11:03:36 AM  

letrole: don't like capitalism insufferable, bare faced greed?

so go setup and run your own airline, then I equate that with communism, comrade!

 
2013-05-12 11:04:37 AM  

bunner: letrole: don't like capitalism insufferable, bare faced greed?

so go setup and run your own airline, then I equate that with communism, comrade!


Do not feed.

/it's his surname
//really
 
2013-05-12 11:05:09 AM  

leevis: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

What if I don't want to go there?


I don't think you can get there from here.
 
2013-05-12 11:05:26 AM  

Jacob_Roberson: That's it, from now on I'm going to pay Maersk to put me in a box. And shipping is already so cheap I don't mind the extra fee to not lose my container overboard in the middle of the Atlantic.

I don't know what to do inside North America though... the Mississippi has shipping traffic right? Has anyone here survived in a steel box floating up the Missouri? It's something to try.


Sounds better than the average cruise line these days :)
 
2013-05-12 11:07:55 AM  

sethen320: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I fly for buisiness...a lot. I always hear that argument about Southwest but I don't understand it. I get treated the same with SW as I do with any other airline.

If you're referring to the seating arrangements somehow, I can tell you its not the big deal some drama queens make it out to be.


The people that are complaining about SW surely have elite status elsewhere. Elite status makes an enormous difference in the flying experience.
 
2013-05-12 11:08:48 AM  

aerojockey: $100 for a carry on bag

[www.aerojockey.com image 379x214]

/passeners holding up the line so they can cram their oversized bags in the overhead bin are the most annoying thing about flying


Perhaps a fee for taking too long to put your damn bag away?  And another fee for taking off your f'ing coat only when you get to your seat then not being able to find a place to stuff it?  Oh and another one for when you forgot to "get that thing" out of your bag which you just put away?

*grumble*

I don't understand why the flight attendants don't take your luggage and put it up for you.  They'd do it quickly and properly so things would fit better.  It would make the whole thing just go quicker.
 
2013-05-12 11:09:41 AM  
Don't expect Congress to react.

They just gave the airlines the only favored status when it came to the sequester, putting the Air Traffic cops back on. The airlines, like Congress, can do no wrong.
 
2013-05-12 11:10:44 AM  

digistil: Elite status makes an enormous difference in the flying  living in the United $tates experience

 
2013-05-12 11:11:44 AM  
Southwest doesn't fly where I travel to the most.
 
GCD
2013-05-12 11:12:16 AM  
The entire airline industry is just a dog and pony show designed to rip the customers off at every possible opportunity.

When business is good, they use it as their excuse to charge additional fees to accommodate the additional surge in passengers.

When business takes a turn for the worse, they use it as their excuse to charge additional fees to make up for their "losses".
 
2013-05-12 11:14:29 AM  
It's things like these fees that are going to make rail a viable alternative. I do understand that it takes longer, but so does driving, however, on a train you can relax, have space, walk around, and listen to the sound of the wheels going over the steel rails. This country needs to expand it's rail base, and as well through up some regulation on the airlines, and push towards better cars that use less fuel and get the same distance out of a gallon of fuel. That's the only way this country and the various travel industries can survive.
 
2013-05-12 11:15:25 AM  

GCD: When business is good, they use it as their excuse to charge additional fees to accommodate the additional surge in passengers.

When business takes a turn for the worse, they use it as their excuse to charge additional fees to make up for their "losses".


When are we going to stand up to corporate sh*tlicks who have the balls to say "we have to do whatever we need to do to assure we make more money than last year" and say "Yeah?  We'll I guess you're sh*t out of luck." ?
 
2013-05-12 11:16:53 AM  

lucksi: I'm soo glad that we have high speed rail over here.


We're getting it in California, too!  Yay!
 
2013-05-12 11:17:04 AM  
Not to be outdone, Frontier Airlines announced that for tickets booked anywhere except on its Web site, it would raise its luggage charges and impose a fee of up to $100 for certain carry-on bags

If you want to fly on Southwest, you can't book anywhere but on their website, They are not available on Travelocity, Expedia etc.

The actual fee for a carry on in the overhead bin is going to be $25, but only if you didn't buy your ticket on the flyfrontier website, buy it on the website and it is free. also a carry on that fits under the seat in front of you is free.

the $100 fee is for those that check in and decide that their carryon will fit under the seat in front of them, and discover when they get to the airplane that it will not.

/ full disclosure: Frontier Employee not in any way authorized to speak on their behalf.
 
2013-05-12 11:17:45 AM  
I'm 6'5" and my shoulders are wider than many domestic doors.

I do not fold up. I don't like the idea of flying in anything less than Virgin's upgraded class.

I also have an interest in JC Penny continuing to exist. They're the only major company making apparel my size available in quality at reasonable prices. Casual Male might carry my size but they're charging Nordstrom prices for K-Mart clothing. And farking stop telling me to shop the internet, you farking midgets are size discriminators.
 
2013-05-12 11:18:37 AM  

edflyer: It's things like these fees that are going to make rail a viable alternative. I do understand that it takes longer, but so does driving, however, on a train you can relax, have space, walk around, and listen to the sound of the wheels going over the steel rails. This country needs to expand it's rail base, and as well through up some regulation on the airlines, and push towards better cars that use less fuel and get the same distance out of a gallon of fuel. That's the only way this country and the various travel industries can survive.


Rails won't be a viable alternative while half the country believes it's a socialist takeover of the country.
 
2013-05-12 11:19:04 AM  
Just drove from Cleveland to Memphis and back. Beautiful scenery, 2500 songs on the car hard drive.  Great road trip.
 
2013-05-12 11:20:14 AM  

RickN99: Carth: RickN99: Carth: Kibbler: cookiefleck: MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.

yeah, you get treated like cattle tho.

I pay through the nose on other airlines and I'm treated like cattle.

Charging $100 for a carry-on bag should be labelled a deceptive practice.  Virtually no one flies without any luggage at all, and if you do, it's assumed you're a terrorist.  So you have to take luggage.  If an airline charges $200 for a ticket, and then $100 even for a carry-on, then they are clearly, obviously, transparently trying to deceive you about the actual price.  That should be criminal.

It is often cheaper to just UPS your clothes to your destination. Added bonus you can send your camera equipment without worrying about it getting stolen or broken by baggage throwers.

Lots of Youtube videos showing violent UPS deliveries.  I don't know how well my camera would take a 10 foot toss onto a porch.

UPS offers insurance up to $50,000 if you declare the amount when you ship it. Airlines typically won't cover anything over a few hundred. If your camera equipment costs more than $50k you should consider flying private or break it up into two shipments.

How does having insurance stop it from being stolen or broken?  Which was your point, I believe -- that those things would not happen with UPS.


Accidents (as well as malicious acts) can always happen, but if you look at the numbers (I don't remember where I saw them) UPS and FedEx have a much better track record than the airlines.

My usual travel strategy for domestic flights is to send a box of clothing and other travel items via FedEx Ground five business days in advance, using the clothing as padding for any delicate items that may also be in the box, and then carry all of my essentials and particularly valuable items (one day's worth of clothes, my laptop, my camera, and my chargers) on the plane in a backpack.  The only times I've gotten messed up by doing that were when I accidentally shipped the box a day late, or when there wasn't a FedEx location near my destination and I had to hike a bit to ship everything back.  But even so, the convenience of not having to haul so much crap through the airport and various ground connections is almost always worth it, and in many cases it's a few dollars cheaper than the checked bag fees.

/in my experience, FedEx Ground is usually cheaper than UPS
 
2013-05-12 11:20:56 AM  
I'd rather they just include it in the ticket price. Of course, they created this situation with the baggage charges in the first place. Now everyone wants to carry on, and boarding is a real hassle because of all the carry on luggage. At $100 for a carry on, I might just go to WalMart and buy some clothes when I get there, or UPS the bags ahead. Of course traveling with no luggage singles you out as a terrorist... no win situation... :-/
 
2013-05-12 11:21:04 AM  
To get from DFW to TYS in Knoxville direct, you're pretty much stuck with American Eagle. But like i've said, I haven't had any problems and they treat me great.
 
2013-05-12 11:22:15 AM  

digistil: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Ok, how do I get from Heathrow to JFK by car?


Drive onto the boat.  Sail across the ocean.  Drive off boat.
 
2013-05-12 11:22:49 AM  

joshiz: One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status: If you have status with most of the major airlines, you don't have to pay a checked bag fee for the first two bags. Luckily I am Gold with United for life (1 Million Miler).

So if you fly often, it pays to stick with one airline to achieve status. But often status doesn't do anything for change fees unless you are at the very top tiers - on United you would have to be 1K or Global Services for the change fees to be waived or reduced.

If you buy a non-refundable fare it is going to be $200 to change it. It is a completely arbitrary fee - they oversell most flights so if you have to cancel, it doesn't really negatively affect the airline...


Nope, the change fee now applies to even the most elite level flyers.   I actually told a supervisor at United their policies are "absurd and asinine" on Friday.   I have a trip to Chicago planned next weekend.   Turns out I need to fly to San  Fran next week for work, so I'm just going to fly from SF to Chicago.  So I call United to tell them I don't need the first leg of my roundtrip ticket, I just need the flight home.  I don't want a refund, just let them know I won't be on it.  Response?  They tried to charge me $258 to NOT take a flight.  They could resell my seat even, and I've already paid for the return trip, but somehow if I don't get on the first leg, they cancel my ticket home.   There was no workaround.   I ended up canceling the trip and booking a three legged flight on another airline.

As for Southwest, they're good with the change fee, but I have to fly through Houston to get anywhere (i much prefer direct flights) and they're just as expensive, or more, than other airlines now.  And they try to get fees out of you to be in boarding group A.

So I now have about 35k miles on five different airlines simply because I have to use different airlines to fly different places.    I have been told that there's a site you can use to combine them, points.com maybe? I haven't tried it but have been told it's good.
 
2013-05-12 11:23:21 AM  

Carth: letrole: don't like capitalism?

so go setup and run your own airline, comrade

How about we remove the regulation letting only US owned airlines fly between domestic destinations instead? If we could have Cathay Pacific or lufthansa fly us NY to LA i bet other airlines would have to improve their service pretty quick.




Yep, this would change all US carriers service. With the consolidation of the US carriers, there aren't many options, especially for people like me who live in a city with service from only 3 airlines. It isn't worth the drive to Milwaukee or Chicago to get access to more airlines. I might as well drive to my destination at that point.
 
2013-05-12 11:23:26 AM  

Steve 319: Not to be outdone, Frontier Airlines announced that for tickets booked anywhere except on its Web site, it would raise its luggage charges and impose a fee of up to $100 for certain carry-on bags

If you want to fly on Southwest, you can't book anywhere but on their website, They are not available on Travelocity, Expedia etc.

The actual fee for a carry on in the overhead bin is going to be $25, but only if you didn't buy your ticket on the flyfrontier website, buy it on the website and it is free. also a carry on that fits under the seat in front of you is free.

the $100 fee is for those that check in and decide that their carryon will fit under the seat in front of them, and discover when they get to the airplane that it will not.

/ full disclosure: Frontier Employee not in any way authorized to speak on their behalf.


And how will that work? Flight attendants going to maker sure no one put bags in the overhead that hadn't paid for the privilege?
 
2013-05-12 11:25:04 AM  

bighairyguy: Fees I would support:

Screaming baby fee
Failure to control your kids fee
Loud annoying voice fee
Drunk asshat fee


That last one's for the pilots, right?
 
2013-05-12 11:25:24 AM  

raerae1980: I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!


I can actually remember when no cheap airfare existed...and I am old.
 
2013-05-12 11:25:27 AM  
There should only be 2 charges on an airline:

1. A seat fee (covers all of the costs of flying an empty aircraft form point A to point B). Figure about $25 per seat that you want/need.
2. A poundage fee (covers the additional cost not covered in 1 for you and all your shiat). You and all your stuff get weighed and you pay a flat $0.75 per pound.

Normal person that needs to make a quick trip with little luggage: ~$200
Lard-ass that tried to bring the entire vacation home with him: ~$350

And the overhead bins need to be divided per seat. You get to use the space assigned to your seat and THAT'S IT! None of the 'fill the entire bin assigned to your row plus the next row forward' bullshiat. If it don't fit it gets left behind, you bin hogging asshole.
 
2013-05-12 11:26:32 AM  

dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?


I drove from Estes Park, Colorado to Cleveland, Ohio last week.  I'll be driving back on Wednesday.

I've driven my car to and thru just about every state except the Dakotas and Hawaii.
I've driven to and around Canada, and Mexico.

/hates to fly
//hound goes everywhere
///fees for carry on kayak and the like
 
2013-05-12 11:28:43 AM  
Went from Atlanta to Chicago for the day twice in the last month for interviews with different companies. Once to Midway on AirTran and the other American to O'Hare. Aside from the ungodly early flights out of Atl, I can't complain about either. And, I only had my bag which fit under the seat, so no extra fees. The only gripe I have is since changing back to my maiden name, it's a pain to get my miles.

But, I will NEVER ever book a flight with Spirit Airlines again. Not only was it the most bus-like of all the airlines out there and they nickle and dime you at every opportunity (seat, carry on, etc), I found out the hard way they have some asinine rule about arriving ungodly early for a domestic flight. I was checking in an hour before the flight, and it was closed already. A bunch of people in line (waiting for the single gate agent, I might add) got bumped. Yep, I was trying to save money, and I got what I paid for.
 
2013-05-12 11:28:45 AM  

DigitalCoffee: There should only be 2 charges on an airline:

1. A seat fee (covers all of the costs of flying an empty aircraft form point A to point B). Figure about $25 per seat that you want/need.
2. A poundage fee (covers the additional cost not covered in 1 for you and all your shiat). You and all your stuff get weighed and you pay a flat $0.75 per pound.

Normal person that needs to make a quick trip with little luggage: ~$200
Lard-ass that tried to bring the entire vacation home with him: ~$350

And the overhead bins need to be divided per seat. You get to use the space assigned to your seat and THAT'S IT! None of the 'fill the entire bin assigned to your row plus the next row forward' bullshiat. If it don't fit it gets left behind, you bin hogging asshole.


One thing that would help writhe overhead bin space is if people would orient their luggage properly. Even 737s will have enough space to put your bags in head first.
 
2013-05-12 11:28:46 AM  

kidgenius: Steve 319: Not to be outdone, Frontier Airlines announced that for tickets booked anywhere except on its Web site, it would raise its luggage charges and impose a fee of up to $100 for certain carry-on bags

If you want to fly on Southwest, you can't book anywhere but on their website, They are not available on Travelocity, Expedia etc.

The actual fee for a carry on in the overhead bin is going to be $25, but only if you didn't buy your ticket on the flyfrontier website, buy it on the website and it is free. also a carry on that fits under the seat in front of you is free.

the $100 fee is for those that check in and decide that their carryon will fit under the seat in front of them, and discover when they get to the airplane that it will not.

/ full disclosure: Frontier Employee not in any way authorized to speak on their behalf.

And how will that work? Flight attendants going to maker sure no one put bags in the overhead that hadn't paid for the privilege?


I don't have any idea, I would guess some sort of tag on the bags or bag sizer by the gate.
 
2013-05-12 11:29:18 AM  

edflyer: It's things like these fees that are going to make rail a viable alternative. I do understand that it takes longer, but so does driving, however, on a train you can relax, have space, walk around, and listen to the sound of the wheels going over the steel rails. This country needs to expand it's rail base, and as well through up some regulation on the airlines, and push towards better cars that use less fuel and get the same distance out of a gallon of fuel. That's the only way this country and the various travel industries can survive.


If I need to get from Chicago to New York or Atlanta, a better rail system will work just fine.  If I need to get from Birmingham to Syracuse or Kalamazoo, I just don't see how you are going to make it remotely competitive with an airplane.
 
2013-05-12 11:30:04 AM  

Carth: How about we remove the regulation letting only US owned airlines fly between domestic destinations instead? If we could have Cathay Pacific or lufthansa fly us NY to LA i bet other airlines would have to improve their service pretty quick.


That'd be unAmerican.

Also, awesome.
 
2013-05-12 11:30:38 AM  

edflyer: It's things like these fees that are going to make rail a viable alternative. I do understand that it takes longer, but so does driving, however, on a train you can relax, have space, walk around, and listen to the sound of the wheels going over the steel rails. This country needs to expand it's rail base, and as well through up some regulation on the airlines, and push towards better cars that use less fuel and get the same distance out of a gallon of fuel. That's the only way this country and the various travel industries can survive.


I've been debating whether I should fly or use Amtrak for a trip I'm planning this summer.  The numbers are heavily skewed in favor of flying because Amtrak would take four days each way and cost five times as much, but with Amtrak I'd have a small room to myself instead of a cramped seat, and Amtrak has no baggage fees.
 
2013-05-12 11:31:02 AM  
The Navigator

This guy?
cps-static.rovicorp.com
or this guy?
images.wikia.com
 
2013-05-12 11:31:41 AM  
Our trainz haz a sad.
 
2013-05-12 11:32:08 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: As someone who's soon going to fly for the first time since Nov. 2001, I am apprehensive.  Seems getting on an airplane is like going into hospital; you don't know if you'll come out alive or bankrupt.


You'll be fine. Lots of exaggeration going on here. Are you flying a normal, mainline carrier?

Buy a ticket. Expect $25 for a checked bag and nothing for your carry on. Put all your liquids/gels/aerosols in the checked bag. Enjoy your free drink on the plane, but some airlines have dropped the free snack. Pick your seat when you book and you won't get stuck in the middle, and consider paying the ~$45-$65 for Economy Plus on the airlines which have it, so you'll have an extra 5 inches of leg space too.

It's really not that bad. I fly at least monthly, and nobody ever fondles me going through security and I never end up in the middle seat, and there's certainly no "surprise" charges.
 
2013-05-12 11:33:41 AM  

Cataholic: raerae1980: I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!

I can actually remember when no cheap airfare existed...and I am old.


You know, I checked out that chart posted above from Sendtodave it looks like when I started to fly (2000s) airfare was decreasing and cheaper.  *shrugs*
 
2013-05-12 11:34:10 AM  

RickN99: edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.

My "driving bubble" has increased dramatically.  Last year, I drove from Atlanta to Cape Cod.  This year will be Atlanta to DC.  Wifey and I make the drive part of the vacation and do touristy things along the way and not just at the destination.


Why are you driving? A train line runs up the east coast.
 
2013-05-12 11:34:44 AM  

Steve 319:
I don't have any idea, I would guess some sort of tag on the bags or bag sizer by the gate.


Sounds like management hadn't either. The cost of implementing thus may cost more than what they bring in from it.
If the space is in the bind the FAs will say "fark it" instead of putting off pax.
 
2013-05-12 11:34:58 AM  
I admit that I haven't needed to fly anywhere since July of 2001. Back then, the only carry-on restrictions was the size limit and no fees. You had to pay cash for booze but soda & water was free.

I bet I'd be in for one helluva rude shock if I went back to the airport again, wouldn't I?
 
2013-05-12 11:34:58 AM  
Has no one brought a Sherman Act claim against these jokers yet?
 
2013-05-12 11:35:15 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

Modern day traveler having her dimensions scanned. Note, she carries no baggage. When she arrives at her destination, reusable/disposable, form fitting, stylish, washable in a sink, drip dry, tyvek clothing will be waiting. She will choose designs and colors on the aircraft.

Hah, just kidding, she's actually being measured for oxygen fee.
 
2013-05-12 11:35:29 AM  
Frontier Airlines announced that for tickets booked anywhere except on its Web site, it would raise its luggage charges and impose a fee of up to $100 for certain carry-on bags, the third U.S. carrier to o thi.

Seriously, which 3 airlines do this? Back in the 80s and 90s I'd fly 5 to 8 times a year and looking back over the past 5 years it's down to 3 flights. I, like the doctor, refuse to give money to organizations that actively torment me. It's a good thing I don't run a restaurant in NY because the mafia would have shot me by now no matter what that farktard Cuomo says.
 
2013-05-12 11:35:39 AM  

edflyer: It's things like these fees that are going to make rail a viable alternative. I do understand that it takes longer, but so does driving, however, on a train you can relax, have space, walk around, and listen to the sound of the wheels going over the steel rails. This country needs to expand it's rail base, and as well through up some regulation on the airlines, and push towards better cars that use less fuel and get the same distance out of a gallon of fuel. That's the only way this country and the various travel industries can survive.


I took the Amtrak "Cascades" line up to Seattle not too long ago. The ride was really enjoyable, even though the Wi-Fi wasn't working when I was on it...( yeah, "First-World" problems)

If they ever run it at what the train is designed for ( 90+ mph), that would be a game changer, IMHO.

/ I realize that dedicated tracks would probably have to be built for that
// GOP will do their best to block it as well...
 
2013-05-12 11:37:00 AM  

rugmannm: Of course traveling with no luggage singles you out as a terrorist... no win situation... :-/


I think the trick is to have just enough luggage to look like a light traveler.  A normal backpack as a carry-on seems to suffice whenever I fly (everything else goes in a FedEx box).

I don't fly that often, though, and I don't look like a stereotypical terrorist, so your mileage may vary.
 
2013-05-12 11:40:54 AM  

TV's Vinnie: I admit that I haven't needed to fly anywhere since July of 2001. Back then, the only carry-on restrictions was the size limit and no fees. You had to pay cash for booze but soda & water was free.

I bet I'd be in for one helluva rude shock if I went back to the airport again, wouldn't I?


Your checked bag would be $25 on the vast majority of airlines, and free on Southwest. Your carry on is still free, except you need to separate your liquids going through security. Still have to pay for booze, but other drinks are still free. It's really not that different. Unless you're flying Spirit to get a $7 fare, I don't know where people come up with these stories of horrific charges.

Shoot, if you really care that much about the $25/bag charge, get the airline's credit card. First year is usually free, and after that the annual fee pays for itself after 2 round trips with one bag each way (or ONE round trip with a companion who has a bag). Heck, if you don't even fly twice a year with a checked bag, why are you complaining so much about the $25 anyway?
 
2013-05-12 11:40:54 AM  

kidgenius: Chevello: "...change fee represents a combination of the cost to change a ticket and the missed revenue opportunity from potentially having an empty seat...."

So they don't oversell flights?

Have to take my family of 5 from PHL to Colorado Springs this summer. It's crazy that I'm having to have a debate with myself about whether we should drive or fly.

The part I hate is having to visit family that are 1500 miles away. Flying is the only reasonable option right now (young kids). But, I just had to shell out two grand for airfare. Next time family needs to come out to us (unlikely) or we can drive to a location halfway between the two families.

Doing round trip drives is highly unfeasible only because you will spend most of your week off driving....


Exactamundo. Not to mention not wanting to send my 4 and 15 year old daughters through the TSA grope-fest.
 
2013-05-12 11:40:54 AM  
I haven't flown in 11 years.  Looks like that streak is going to continue.

I don't mind being on a plane, I actually enjoy it.  It's all the hassle involved in getting on the plane that I hate.  And then all of these fees?  Meh.  I'll drive.  Seeing things from the air is neat and all, but being able to stop and gawk at things is much better on the ground.  Plus, with security hassles, flight delays, etc, I can usually drive anywhere that's 7 hours or less away quicker and cheaper than flying anyway.
 
2013-05-12 11:41:15 AM  
My wife and I are DINKS. We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly. Bought an RV and are going to visit the national parks. Yosemite this year and Yellowstone next year. Screw the airlines...

/Former Avionics Tech
 
2013-05-12 11:42:27 AM  

PsyLord: Exactly what I intend to do for a 1200 mile trip this summer.  Fark you airlines.


This summer, I'll be driving the family nearly 6,000 miles round trip to visit the in-laws. I can make the entire drive round trip for easily under $1,000, and I can get from A to B in less than 48 hours if I choose. The wife and I each have months and months of vacation, so we don't really care if we take the extra time to drive. I'm not giving airlines one more penny. Period. Ticket prices are ridiculous. I remember paying under $200 for round trip airfare to Vegas, and that INCLUDED lodging for four or five nights- and I'm not old. Screw this shiat, I'll drive.
 
2013-05-12 11:42:44 AM  

OscarTamerz: Frontier Airlines announced that for tickets booked anywhere except on its Web site, it would raise its luggage charges and impose a fee of up to $100 for certain carry-on bags, the third U.S. carrier to o thi.

Seriously, which 3 airlines do this? Back in the 80s and 90s I'd fly 5 to 8 times a year and looking back over the past 5 years it's down to 3 flights. I, like the doctor, refuse to give money to organizations that actively torment me. It's a good thing I don't run a restaurant in NY because the mafia would have shot me by now no matter what that farktard Cuomo says.


Spirit and Allegiant are the other two. Spirit is trying to be the Ryanair of the US, only less pleasant.

Allegiant wants to be a dirt cheap airline that sells vacation packages, but they will strand your ass in the terminal at HNL on your outbound for days if you fly to Hawaii with them, so don't. Fly Hawaiian if you want to to to Hawaii. They'll even give you a meal in coach (though there is a bag fee)
 
2013-05-12 11:46:19 AM  

MagicBus: If you're an infrequent flier, just fly Southwest.  No change fees, no checked bag fees, and just as good as the other airlines if you're not up front.


Southwest doesn't have a counter in my city.
 
2013-05-12 11:46:44 AM  

Pockafrusta: We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-12 11:49:02 AM  
Amtrak is pretty good and cheap when compared to airlines. Just plan for a day of travel
 
2013-05-12 11:49:03 AM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: I remember paying under $200 for round trip airfare to Vegas, and that INCLUDED lodging for four or five nights


When was this? How much has inflation and fuel prices changed since then?
 
2013-05-12 11:50:19 AM  

Aar1012: Amtrak is pretty good and cheap when compared to airlines.


What routes are you speaking of? In my experience there are VERY few routes where Amtrak is going to be price-competitive with the airlines.... really just in the Northeast Corridor.
 
2013-05-12 11:50:42 AM  
I, for one, am looking forward to all you farks getting self driving cars. When that happens, I'll program them all to ride in the right lane where they belong, leaving an open road in front of me.

The future is bright!
 
2013-05-12 11:50:59 AM  

PsyLord: Exactly what I intend to do for a 1200 mile trip this summer.  Fark you airlines.


Just drove from NJ to Missouri.  Yes it took longer than flying. It was way, way less stressful though.

I've really grown to hate the experience of flying. I have another trip in August that instead of flying I am going to drive, that's only about 800 miles each way. Easily done.

But then I love to drive.
 
2013-05-12 11:52:10 AM  
High speed rail is not a viable solution for a country this damn big.  Comparing Germany to the continental US is simply not accurate.  Within California?  From Boston to NY?  Sure.  But from San Antonio to Portland?  No way.  Even at 100mph, with zero stops it would be over 17 hours, vs. a 3.5 hour flight.  In reality, it would take probably two days.  I'm not wasting four days traveling, even as crappy as flying is.
 
2013-05-12 11:52:44 AM  

Pockafrusta: My wife and I are DINKS. We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly. Bought an RV and are going to visit the national parks. Yosemite this year and Yellowstone next year. Screw the airlines...

/Former Avionics Tech


Get your Private License sell the RV buy a light plane, the costs are about the same.  Plus you meet some of the neatest people a small airfields.

/Got a check ride in a Texan T-6 man those big radial engines really make you feel good when you fly
 
2013-05-12 11:52:46 AM  

RoyBatty: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 460x337]

Modern day traveler having her dimensions scanned. Note, she carries no baggage. When she arrives at her destination, reusable/disposable, form fitting, stylish, washable in a sink, drip dry, tyvek clothing will be waiting. She will choose designs and colors on the aircraft.

Hah, just kidding, she's actually being measured for oxygen fee.


What's really happening is that poor TSA woman is having her chest melted from all the gamma rays. I mean look at her... her chest is nearly melted down to her stomach.
 
2013-05-12 11:54:12 AM  

Tom_Slick: Pockafrusta: My wife and I are DINKS. We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly. Bought an RV and are going to visit the national parks. Yosemite this year and Yellowstone next year. Screw the airlines...

/Former Avionics Tech

Get your Private License sell the RV buy a light plane, the costs are about the same.  Plus you meet some of the neatest people a small airfields.

/Got a check ride in a Texan T-6 man those big radial engines really make you feel good when you fly


Like "sitting on the washer during a spin cycle" good?
 
2013-05-12 11:57:37 AM  

dukeblue219: BarkingUnicorn: As someone who's soon going to fly for the first time since Nov. 2001, I am apprehensive.  Seems getting on an airplane is like going into hospital; you don't know if you'll come out alive or bankrupt.

You'll be fine. Lots of exaggeration going on here. Are you flying a normal, mainline carrier?

Buy a ticket. Expect $25 for a checked bag and nothing for your carry on. Put all your liquids/gels/aerosols in the checked bag. Enjoy your free drink on the plane, but some airlines have dropped the free snack. Pick your seat when you book and you won't get stuck in the middle, and consider paying the ~$45-$65 for Economy Plus on the airlines which have it, so you'll have an extra 5 inches of leg space too.

It's really not that bad. I fly at least monthly, and nobody ever fondles me going through security and I never end up in the middle seat, and there's certainly no "surprise" charges.


Thanks for the reassurance and tips.  My only option is United Express.
 
2013-05-12 11:58:20 AM  

dukeblue219: BarkingUnicorn: As someone who's soon going to fly for the first time since Nov. 2001, I am apprehensive.  Seems getting on an airplane is like going into hospital; you don't know if you'll come out alive or bankrupt.

It's really not that bad. I fly at least monthly, and nobody ever fondles me going through security and I never end up in the middle seat, and there's certainly no "surprise" charges.


I agree- it isn't bad. I have never waited more than 30 minutes in a security line (maybe I am lucky, but I think people exaggerate how long the waits are). I have never been patted down (I have been swabbed for explosives which took about 30 seconds), and I don't pay extra fees (Flying with only a normal sized carry on is not hard people. Quit bringing so much stuff.) I actually almost always end up in a middle seat because I am extremely thrifty and book a lot of trips on short notice. If I am flying during meal time I just bring my own sandwich or snacks.
 
2013-05-12 11:59:16 AM  

TV's Vinnie: I admit that I haven't needed to fly anywhere since July of 2001. Back then, the only carry-on restrictions was the size limit and no fees. You had to pay cash for booze but soda & water was free.

I bet I'd be in for one helluva rude shock if I went back to the airport again, wouldn't I?


No. It is exactly the same on most airlines. People enjoy complaining.
 
2013-05-12 12:00:43 PM  

CruJones: High speed rail is not a viable solution for a country this damn big.  Comparing Germany to the continental US is simply not accurate.  Within California?  From Boston to NY?  Sure.  But from San Antonio to Portland?  No way.  Even at 100mph, with zero stops it would be over 17 hours, vs. a 3.5 hour flight.  In reality, it would take probably two days.  I'm not wasting four days traveling, even as crappy as flying is.


China has high speed rail and it is as big as the US. You can take a high speed train Bejiing to Shanghai (800 miles) in under 5 hours. You can also take a train from Beijing to Lhasa (3753 miles) for $150 and you get to see some great scenery on the way.
 
2013-05-12 12:00:45 PM  
God I love Porter.

/affordable fares and free drinks
//will have to do until we get high speed rail
 
2013-05-12 12:04:47 PM  

CruJones: High speed rail is not a viable solution for a country this damn big.  Comparing Germany to the continental US is simply not accurate.  Within California?  From Boston to NY?  Sure.  But from San Antonio to Portland?  No way.  Even at 100mph, with zero stops it would be over 17 hours, vs. a 3.5 hour flight.  In reality, it would take probably two days.  I'm not wasting four days traveling, even as crappy as flying is.


HSR travels about twice that fast.
 
2013-05-12 12:04:54 PM  

Nick Nostril: Like "sitting on the washer during a spin cycle" good?


Like "sitting on the washing machine during the spin cycle with Mila Kunis on your lap" good.
 
2013-05-12 12:05:46 PM  

kidgenius: Steve 319:
I don't have any idea, I would guess some sort of tag on the bags or bag sizer by the gate.

Sounds like management hadn't either. The cost of implementing thus may cost more than what they bring in from it.
If the space is in the bind the FAs will say "fark it" instead of putting off pax.


I have very little doubt that there will be some very unhappy flight attendants sorting it out, hopefully they are working on the implementation.

I believe the main motivation behind this is to drive the bookings to the website instead of the travel websites, that is a small part of why southwest is successful, they don't use the travel websites at all. It looks like Frontier is hoping to do the same. The price for the ticket is the same regardless of where you book it but the airline is charged a fee by the travel websites for the booking.
 
2013-05-12 12:06:21 PM  

Carth: CruJones: High speed rail is not a viable solution for a country this damn big.  Comparing Germany to the continental US is simply not accurate.  Within California?  From Boston to NY?  Sure.  But from San Antonio to Portland?  No way.  Even at 100mph, with zero stops it would be over 17 hours, vs. a 3.5 hour flight.  In reality, it would take probably two days.  I'm not wasting four days traveling, even as crappy as flying is.

China has high speed rail and it is as big as the US. You can take a high speed train Bejiing to Shanghai (800 miles) in under 5 hours. You can also take a train from Beijing to Lhasa (3753 miles) for $150 and you get to see some great scenery on the way.


We don't have political prisoners to use as a labor force, and we have safety regulations, and NIMBYs that need to be dealt with, rather than just moved whether they like it or not
So while China does have a system, it was orders of magnitude less expensive than it would be here, and politically much, much easier than it would be in the US.

Not saying that we shouldn't look at an try to get all of the major cities linked by high speed, I'm just saying that comparing it to China only compares the geographical distances involved, and none of the other factors.
 
2013-05-12 12:10:33 PM  
I'm not getting a kick, as I just spent about 4500 on three tickets for my deckhands and I.
I will still be on the hook for baggage fees, which should be well over 100 dollars.

/Alaska airlines can EABOD (but even that would taste better than their in flight food service)
 
2013-05-12 12:12:38 PM  

buzzcut73: Carth: CruJones: High speed rail is not a viable solution for a country this damn big.  Comparing Germany to the continental US is simply not accurate.  Within California?  From Boston to NY?  Sure.  But from San Antonio to Portland?  No way.  Even at 100mph, with zero stops it would be over 17 hours, vs. a 3.5 hour flight.  In reality, it would take probably two days.  I'm not wasting four days traveling, even as crappy as flying is.

China has high speed rail and it is as big as the US. You can take a high speed train Bejiing to Shanghai (800 miles) in under 5 hours. You can also take a train from Beijing to Lhasa (3753 miles) for $150 and you get to see some great scenery on the way.

We don't have political prisoners to use as a labor force, and we have safety regulations, and NIMBYs that need to be dealt with, rather than just moved whether they like it or not
So while China does have a system, it was orders of magnitude less expensive than it would be here, and politically much, much easier than it would be in the US.

Not saying that we shouldn't look at an try to get all of the major cities linked by high speed, I'm just saying that comparing it to China only compares the geographical distances involved, and none of the other factors.


I agree it would be more expensive and harder to do in the US with the regulations and NIMBYs (but we have more prisoners and immigrants so labor shouldn't be the problem).  There is no reason we can't do a Bos-NYC-DC high speed rail.. The one in the US would be half as long, twice as expensive and still a good deal.

If i could get from DC to NY in 90 minutes by train i wouldn't even consider flying/driving.
 
2013-05-12 12:12:49 PM  
Yep, I'll drive
s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-05-12 12:13:36 PM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: Pockafrusta: We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 152x143]


As other farkers have mentioned, the actual experience of being ona  plane is fun for them, but it's the outrageous BS that people are shoved through just to get anywhere near the damn plane that is the PITA.

Another thing I'm guessing has changed since my last flight in July 2001: The seats are probably so narrowed now that only a circus midget with no pelvis can comfortably sit in one. Amirite?

/Last flew on Midwest Express
// Misses those leather seats, champagne, and fresh choco chip cookies

www.airlinemeals.net
 
2013-05-12 12:15:19 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm 6'5" and my shoulders are wider than many domestic doors.

I do not fold up. I don't like the idea of flying in anything less than Virgin's upgraded class.

I also have an interest in JC Penny continuing to exist. They're the only major company making apparel my size available in quality at reasonable prices. Casual Male might carry my size but they're charging Nordstrom prices for K-Mart clothing. And farking stop telling me to shop the internet, you farking midgets are size discriminators.


YOU DON'T MIND IF I PUT MY SEAT BACK, DO YOU THANK YOU!
 
2013-05-12 12:15:36 PM  

dukeblue219: Aar1012: Amtrak is pretty good and cheap when compared to airlines.

What routes are you speaking of? In my experience there are VERY few routes where Amtrak is going to be price-competitive with the airlines.... really just in the Northeast Corridor.


I did Boston to Cleveland for about $160 round trip. Compare that to the $300 via airlines.
 
2013-05-12 12:16:19 PM  

cig-mkr: leevis: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

What if I don't want to go there?

I don't think you can get there from here.


I've been there; I know the way.
 
2013-05-12 12:18:42 PM  

Carth: If i could get from DC to NY in 90 minutes by train i wouldn't even consider flying/driving.


The Acela time of 2 hours 45 mins really isn't that bad, and they've got wifi.
 
2013-05-12 12:18:47 PM  
Problem is, if  as a consumer, I reject these fees, and help put the greedier airlines out of business, won't my tax money get spent to bail them out anyway?
 
2013-05-12 12:28:03 PM  
This is what they have in Europe for HSR and it's great:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV
 
2013-05-12 12:30:49 PM  
Does anyone else find it annoying when you plan a trip, and get to the seat selection all the good seats are taken. The only ones left are an additional fee. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BOOKING A MONTH IN ADVANCE?
 
2013-05-12 12:32:22 PM  

cig-mkr: Does anyone else find it annoying it to be most likely a big lie when you plan a trip, and get to the seat selection all the good seats are taken. The only ones left are an additional fee. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BOOKING A MONTH IN ADVANCE?

 
2013-05-12 12:33:39 PM  

ThighsofGlory: cig-mkr: leevis: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

What if I don't want to go there?

I don't think you can get there from here.

I've been there; I know the way.


By the way is it far away ?
 
2013-05-12 12:42:31 PM  

cig-mkr: Does anyone else find it annoying when you plan a trip, and get to the seat selection all the good seats are taken. The only ones left are an additional fee. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BOOKING A MONTH IN ADVANCE?


It really depends on the airline. Some airlines (British Airways for one) only allow elites to choose a seat prior to 24 hours pre-flight, which is a tremendous value to the infrequent flyer.
 
2013-05-12 12:46:25 PM  
I've no need to fly, so I don't. Ages ago, I flew to Mexico and back. Later I took a Greyhound Bus to another state. I took a cruise ship to the Bahamas.

Most of the long distance traveling I did when younger was by car.

I road in a train once from Florida to New Jersey but I was so young I can barely recall it.

When I flew, the airlines were much different, nicer and cheaper.

If you've ever read a National Geographic Magazine from the 60's and 70's, you'll see how Greyhound was pushing hard to become one of the main interstate passenger movers. They offered vacation packages, double decker busses with the upper deck mainly glass for viewing, stops at huge Greyhound Plaza's where you could get good food, shop in a few stores and stretch your legs for a bit.

The rise of the airlines hit them hard. Turning them into a shell of their former selves, seemingly mainly used by poor folks.

Trains used to be cool, from what I've read, heard and seen. You could get a compartment to yourself for an extra fee, there were dining cars, lounge cars, smoking cars and most pulled into big, comfortable stations. They were even working on drive on flatbed cars so you could travel with your vehicle or in it.

At their heyday, they also were working on double decker viewing cars and developing high speed versions, like in Europe.

Most folks drove, but then whole sections of the highways were designed to offer you entertainment and comfort with some pretty oddball places to stop. Back then, cars didn't always have A/C, they didn't have entertainment stations built in and no one had ever heard of an SUV.

So the Roadside Attractions could make for an interesting and unique trip.
They also used to have many more camp grounds for people with travel trailers and most were very reasonable with a lot of amenities.

Driving across the US used to be exciting and fun. Today, with the new cars and SUVs, it would seem like luxury. Today's cars are much more comfortable, less prone to breakdowns, even the tires are sturdier, meaning less flats. The SUV no longer means you have to cram all the kids in one long bench back seat, where they'll annoy each other out of boredom. GPS means the glove box full of impossible to refold, 4 foot square maps is no longer needed.

Then the big RVs make things even better. However, those buggers, being portable houses, tend to be fuel hogs and often diesel. Warranties usually do not allow you to run cheaper bio-diesel through them.

One of my brothers has one. It costs him $400 to fill up the tank when he comes down from South Carolina and $400 to go back but the thing is impressive.
I guess most folks these days are used to flying and getting someplace fast. Over the years I've seen the popularity of airlines rise and their quality drop as their prices exploded. 9/11 made getting on them a nightmare.

Twice I've read where the airlines have decreased the distance between seats to cram more passengers in and read where many do not carry FAA required emergency equipment when flying across oceans. Turns out the FAA can only suggest certain regulations be followed but can enforce others.

The rise of the airlines badly hurt travel by bus and train.

Now, they're close to a monopoly.

I've been thinking about a comfortable ride on an air conditioned train, in a private cubical, complete with fold away beds and dining in a comfortable dining car. The view at night must be spectacular traveling along the rails through cities and towns.

My mother and younger brother took a trip from Florida to Washington DC by rail some years ago when he was a kid, on vacation and they both thoroughly enjoyed it.

I still recall the family trips by car, towing a tiny travel trailer and stopping in these unique parks for the night. Us kids carried stacks of books and games to play on the long trips and it did, for us kids, get boring but we didn't have SUVs back then.

Maybe people might want to reconsider the Rt.66 era. Maybe they might want to drive again, or take the bus or the train.
 
2013-05-12 12:46:29 PM  

Aar1012: dukeblue219: Aar1012: Amtrak is pretty good and cheap when compared to airlines.

What routes are you speaking of? In my experience there are VERY few routes where Amtrak is going to be price-competitive with the airlines.... really just in the Northeast Corridor.

I did Boston to Cleveland for about $160 round trip. Compare that to the $300 via airlines.


I suppose it varies depending on what part of the country you're in.  I live in the SF bay area, and every time I've checked Amtrak has been more expensive than any alternative (e.g. driving to Reno, flying to Chicago).  The only time I've seen Amtrak comes out even is for trips to Sacramento, and that only works if your destination in Sacramento is near the station or you can get a ride.

The cost of Amtrak gets especially high if you're looking at a multi-day trip and don't want to sleep in a chair.
 
2013-05-12 12:49:19 PM  
Just got back from a three-week trip from Central Florida to Rapid City, SD, via Wichita, KS, with stops in Knoxville, and Atlanta.  Total cost:  $3500 (food, gas, lodging)

Just checked with Kayak - their price:  $4080 just for air fare (does not include any fees.)

Admittedly, the difference of $580 is not researched as well as if we had actually planned on flying but that's still a lot of money just for transportation.  Plus, we are retired so we can leave anytime we please.

Airlines can now officially fark themselves.
 
2013-05-12 12:52:42 PM  

bunner: cig-mkr: Does anyone else find it annoying it to be most likely a big lie when you plan a trip, and get to the seat selection all the good seats are taken. The only ones left are an additional fee. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE BOOKING A MONTH IN ADVANCE?


Better yet, pay for the aisle seat on a late night flight, only to find the plane a quarter full. The flight attendant then says "We have plenty of seats, sit where you want."
 
2013-05-12 12:53:27 PM  
It amazes me that no airlines can find a price point between "nickel and dimeing the cattle" and "thousands for business."
 
2013-05-12 12:54:17 PM  
I just looked at Amtrak for a trip between my home in the Southwest to a point near where my family lives in the Midwest. Takes about as long as driving, costs about as much as flying, but that's with a 4 bed sleeper compartment.

I may well do that next year. Flying with kids sucks, especially if you have to make connections, which we usually do. Driving 20 plus hours with kids is impossible, you'd have to break up the drive into two or three days, which also sucks. Getting on a train and chilling out, getting to where you're going by the next day? Sure, why not?
 
2013-05-12 12:55:43 PM  

ThighsofGlory: cig-mkr: leevis: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

What if I don't want to go there?

I don't think you can get there from here.

I've been there; I know the way.


You knew the way. If you take that way now, you end up in a lake. They changed that way and built a bypass.
 
2013-05-12 12:58:26 PM  
Why is everyone complaining?  If you'd just fly first class, you'd get your own bed.

i67.photobucket.com

/let them eat cake
 
2013-05-12 12:59:22 PM  
Addendum to my previous message: The train takes 21 hours, which equal to the time it takes to drive. However, the train does not require you to stop overnight at least twice, so it takes 21 hours while driving takes three days. Hope that clears it up

/Too much beer last night
//Not enough coffee this morning
///Three slashies for great justice.
 
2013-05-12 12:59:49 PM  

raerae1980: I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!


You're definitely not old. If you were, you'd remember that when the government ran the airlines, only the wealthy could afford it.
 
2013-05-12 01:00:06 PM  

DigitalCoffee: ThighsofGlory: cig-mkr: leevis: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

What if I don't want to go there?

I don't think you can get there from here.

I've been there; I know the way.

You knew the way. If you take that way now, you end up in a lake. They changed that way and built a bypass

toll road
FTFY
 
2013-05-12 01:05:40 PM  

He_Hate_Me: Why is everyone complaining?  If you'd just fly first class, you'd get your own bed.

[i67.photobucket.com image 470x353]

/let them eat cake


That as first class? Maybe 5-10 years ago.

www.justfares.com

is what it looks like now.
 
2013-05-12 01:11:45 PM  

Carth: He_Hate_Me: Why is everyone complaining?  If you'd just fly first class, you'd get your own bed.

[i67.photobucket.com image 470x353]

/let them eat cake

That as first class? Maybe 5-10 years ago.

[www.justfares.com image 632x474]

is what it looks like now.


Yeah, I was about to say that first one doesn't even look great compared to many TATL business class seats these days.
 
2013-05-12 01:12:27 PM  
Joel Shenker, a neurologist based in Columbia, Mo., says that the new fees reinforce his belief that it's "morally wrong" to give his business to an industry "that treats me so shabbily."

So it's morally wrong to have to pay for what you're getting. Lots of convenience store robbers out there who'll agree with that.
 
2013-05-12 01:15:41 PM  

dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?


This tends to be the problem with visiting my family, since they live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean from me. Not really a chance to do that, so occasionally I have to use a plane. Really horrid trip.
 
2013-05-12 01:16:37 PM  
Rich people problems
 
2013-05-12 01:22:38 PM  

jmsvrsn: Joel Shenker, a neurologist based in Columbia, Mo., says that the new fees reinforce his belief that it's "morally wrong" to give his business to an industry "that treats me so shabbily."

So it's morally wrong to have to pay for what you're getting. Lots of convenience store robbers out there who'll agree with that.


He's saying it's morally wrong to support a business which preys on the naive and uneducated. In other words, there are people not prepared to purchase a ticket without assistance and some airlines take great advantage of this, which he is against.
 
2013-05-12 01:24:03 PM  

Tanthalas39: raerae1980: I have to fly back East this summer and visit family.  This really sucks as airfare is already borderline unaffordable.

I can actually remember when cheap airfare existed and I'm not old!!

You're definitely not old. If you were, you'd remember that when the government ran the airlines, only the wealthy could afford it.


I remember in the 1970's, you no longer had to be a member of the "Jet Set" to afford it, but it was still kind of a big deal. People used to dress nicely to fly, and though I was a kid, I recall all the great stuff; Captain's Tour of the cockpit (cue the gladiator movie jokes), a halfway-decent meal plus snacks, pack of playing cards, pillow, blanket, various magazines, unlimited drinks for the adults, and of course the kids got pin-on Honorary Captain's wings.
 
2013-05-12 01:24:59 PM  
No references to "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" yet?

/you people are slacking off

//and by "you people," I'm only referring to Farkers
 
2013-05-12 01:27:48 PM  
Charlie checked his bags in Austin, flew to New York City,
And connected for Bangor, Maine.
When he got there the attendant told him "ninety more dollars" --
Charlie couldn't get off that plane!

But did he ever return, no, he never returned
And his fate is still unlearned.
He may fly forever in the skies of America,
He's the man who never returned.
 
2013-05-12 01:29:50 PM  
The sad thing is that Amtrak hasn't been able to use this to significantly increase ridership.  If anything, they seem to be doing as much as the airlines to fark over their potential customer base.  I'd gladly take a train if it didn't cost twice as much as a flight and take two days to reach a destination I could drive to in ten hours.
 
2013-05-12 01:38:42 PM  

TV's Vinnie: thisisyourbrainonFark: Pockafrusta: We HATE the flying experience, but both love to fly.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 152x143]

As other farkers have mentioned, the actual experience of being ona  plane is fun for them, but it's the outrageous BS that people are shoved through just to get anywhere near the damn plane that is the PITA.

Another thing I'm guessing has changed since my last flight in July 2001: The seats are probably so narrowed now that only a circus midget with no pelvis can comfortably sit in one. Amirite?

/Last flew on Midwest Express
// Misses those leather seats, champagne, and fresh choco chip cookies

[www.airlinemeals.net image 400x268]




Until they went under, Midwest was the only way to fly.
 
2013-05-12 01:39:38 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Charlie checked his bags in Austin, flew to New York City,
And connected for Bangor, Maine.
When he got there the attendant told him "ninety more dollars" --
Charlie couldn't get off that plane!

But did he ever return, no, he never returned
And his fate is still unlearned.
He may fly forever in the skies of America,
He's the man who never returned.


Showing your age now........
 
2013-05-12 01:40:53 PM  
UPS.  Ship all your clothes before you travel.  And if hotels were smart they would make a deal with UPS (or some other carrier service) and offer mail services for people sending their clothes home.
 
2013-05-12 01:42:07 PM  
Between this, the tsa gropers and the porn xray scanners it's a wonder anyone flies anymore.
 
2013-05-12 01:45:26 PM  
Also, I thought I remember reading something about this last week and they said that carry-on fee was not for things like a backpack, but it was for people who were bringing their luggage as a carry on.
 
2013-05-12 01:46:44 PM  

joshiz: One thing the article didn't mention regarding elite status: If you have status with most of the major airlines, you don't have to pay a checked bag fee for the first two bags. Luckily I am Gold with United for life (1 Million Miler).

So if you fly often, it pays to stick with one airline to achieve status. But often status doesn't do anything for change fees unless you are at the very top tiers - on United you would have to be 1K or Global Services for the change fees to be waived or reduced.

If you buy a non-refundable fare it is going to be $200 to change it. It is a completely arbitrary fee - they oversell most flights so if you have to cancel, it doesn't really negatively affect the airline...


And then they look like professional whining idiots when at the boarding process they are begging people to check their bags because they don't have any room, or to volunteer to go to another flight (which is quite possibly also already overbooked), because they can't be bothered to use all their fancy computer systems to figure out if they have enough passengers.

Delta is the worst offender I've seen of it.  Every flight I've ever taken from Delta has asked a minimum of 6 people to change.  I do Southwest now, it hardly ever happens there .. and now I get free WiFi on all flights, and i'm quite close to having a free companion pass for all my flights as well.
 
2013-05-12 01:50:36 PM  

DigitalCoffee: And the overhead bins need to be divided per seat. You get to use the space assigned to your seat and THAT'S IT! None of the 'fill the entire bin assigned to your row plus the next row forward' bullshiat. If it don't fit it gets left behind, you bin hogging asshole.


I've never actually seen anyone do this, at least since they started charging for checked bags and those bins became valuable real estate. I have seen people get held up at the gate because they're carrying six purses and backpacks in addition to their giant wheelie bag, though. And I've seen flight attendants make people hold their jackets or put their handbags under the seat to cram more wheelie bags in.

Then again, I've also seen a woman solve the problem of "not enough bin space for my giant wheelie bag" by taking out someone else's wheelie bag and putting it in an empty seat. So the real problem may be that we're letting people onto these flights in the first place, and that's harder to work around.
 
2013-05-12 01:51:08 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Charlie checked his bags in Austin, flew to New York City,
And connected for Bangor, Maine.
When he got there the attendant told him "ninety more dollars" --
Charlie couldn't get off that plane!

But did he ever return, no, he never returned
And his fate is still unlearned.
He may fly forever in the skies of America,
He's the man who never returned.


Oh crap, we've got filkers
 
2013-05-12 01:51:55 PM  

Dinkledort: Domestically I don't understand why anyone flies on anything but Southwest.  Didn't seen them on the list of bilkers, did you?  Oh, you want an assigned seat and don't want to wait in line?  Get over it.  If you want to throw away hundreds to be pampered for a few hours you might as well fly first class.


Most likely because all the travel deal sites don't work with southwest.  At least, on Expedia and Travelocity, I've never seen southwest come up.  A coworker who also flies constantly told me about them, and I've pretty much been there ever since, except when my schedule doesn't match theirs somewhere.  Then I'm stuck on Delta or US Air, which both suuuuuuuuuuuck.
 
2013-05-12 01:51:57 PM  

jake_lex: I kind of wonder if that's part of the motivation behind all these: squeeze out the infrequent traveller who flies once a year, if that, and usually on tickets they got at a deep discount.  Or, at least, heap these extra charges on them to balance out their cheap-ass ticket.


It started out as a la carte or something similar, but has morphed into a way to float to the top of cheap ticket websites. If you don't check bags then the bag fee most likely helps you because rather than spread the cost of all the bags to everyone it only applies to those that actually do. I have elite status but in the past 5 years I have never checked a bag. Also by discouraging checked bags they can sell cargo space in the holds. However a fee like the carry on fee is simple they want to post a price of $80 for the ticket but still really make $180. The increase in travel search engines are to blame for this. A colleague was traveling and some new low fee carry popped up so he tried it. The major airline would have cost $210, the ticket for the new airline was $120, but then there was $100 in various fees.

I doubt it was to squeeze out the infrequent traveler. I don't recall where but someone did a study on airline pricing and found that the most frequent travelers weren't the most profitable because the airline gave them too many perks. It was actually the least frequent who were most profitable. Even with discounts the once a year traveler may still end up spending more, like getting a changeable  or refundable tickets.
 
2013-05-12 01:54:55 PM  

tillerman35: The sad thing is that Amtrak hasn't been able to use this to significantly increase ridership.  If anything, they seem to be doing as much as the airlines to fark over their potential customer base.  I'd gladly take a train if it didn't cost twice as much as a flight and take two days to reach a destination I could drive to in ten hours.


I don't know about Amtrak's management structure, but I think one of their big problems is that they need to invest a huge amount of money in improving their trains and their lines, but they don't have the capital to do so.  And I don't know how difficult it would be to get a loan for that sort of money when a company has had the sort of chronic financial hardships that Amtrak has.

I recently read that the technology exists, for example, to build a train system in which the train rides through a vacuum tube (the train would have its own pressurized cabin) on a maglev or similar track, and would be able to achieve a top speed of about 4,000 miles per hour, easily moving people and cargo faster than any airplane.  The problem, of course, is that designing and building even a proof-of-concept is prohibitively expensive and would upset a lot of moneyed interests.

Mock26: UPS.  Ship all your clothes before you travel.  And if hotels were smart they would make a deal with UPS (or some other carrier service) and offer mail services for people sending their clothes home.


I don't know how common this is, but at least some higher-end hotels already have UPS stores built into them.  I live within near both a Mariott and a Hyatt that frequently host various conferences, and they both have their own UPS stores.  They're also less than a mile from a FedEx Office that's open 24/7.

I've also heard that FedEx will often pick up packages from an address of your choosing for a few dollars extra, but I don't know if that works well with hotels.  On the one occasion when I used FedEx for my luggage and I was staying at a large hotel, there was a FedEx Office less than a block away, so I decided to just hand-carry the package over there.
 
2013-05-12 02:01:04 PM  
sendtodave : It was better in the old days, before airlines started trying to squeeze every penny out of you.

Where in that chart do they show the increase in plane capacities and the decrease in the quality of food service.

I would gladly pay the old rates if it meant not being stuffed in like sardines, or served food that wouldn't be suitable for a high school cafeteria.
 
2013-05-12 02:02:22 PM  

ekdikeo4: Delta is the worst offender I've seen of it.  Every flight I've ever taken from Delta has asked a minimum of 6 people to change.  I do Southwest now, it hardly ever happens there


Don't stop flying Delta, please. I  like getting bumped. It's either free money or an extra subsidized vacation day or both. But it only works if the plane is full. You're part of the process!
 
2013-05-12 02:05:42 PM  

Mock26: Also, I thought I remember reading something about this last week and they said that carry-on fee was not for things like a backpack, but it was for people who were bringing their luggage as a carry on.


One of the things I used to do to fudge with carry-on rules was to wear a USAF Tactical/Survival Vest. Available online or at most Army surplus shops.

www.police-uniforms.com

So many pockets to stash stuff, and the airlines couldn't do a damn thing about it because it was more like a coat/jacket than a bag.

Probably a PITA to get through screening to empty all the pockets, but if it gets through free and drives the TSA goons nuts, all the better.
 
2013-05-12 02:08:02 PM  
If only Amtrack didn't suck. I don't mean they have bad service (having never used it), but they don't have ENOUGH service, and last I checked the cost was almost the same to fly to Indy and would have taken 24 hours with a switch in Chicago...
 
2013-05-12 02:10:50 PM  

semiotix: DigitalCoffee: And the overhead bins need to be divided per seat. You get to use the space assigned to your seat and THAT'S IT! None of the 'fill the entire bin assigned to your row plus the next row forward' bullshiat. If it don't fit it gets left behind, you bin hogging asshole.

I've never actually seen anyone do this, at least since they started charging for checked bags and those bins became valuable real estate. I have seen people get held up at the gate because they're carrying six purses and backpacks in addition to their giant wheelie bag, though. And I've seen flight attendants make people hold their jackets or put their handbags under the seat to cram more wheelie bags in.

Then again, I've also seen a woman solve the problem of "not enough bin space for my giant wheelie bag" by taking out someone else's wheelie bag and putting it in an empty seat. So the real problem may be that we're letting people onto these flights in the first place, and that's harder to work around.


More than a few times I have seen people throw their bag in the first available overhead space and then proceed to sit down towards the back of the plane.
 
2013-05-12 02:11:42 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Mock26: Also, I thought I remember reading something about this last week and they said that carry-on fee was not for things like a backpack, but it was for people who were bringing their luggage as a carry on.

One of the things I used to do to fudge with carry-on rules was to wear a USAF Tactical/Survival Vest. Available online or at most Army surplus shops.

[www.police-uniforms.com image 250x299]

So many pockets to stash stuff, and the airlines couldn't do a damn thing about it because it was more like a coat/jacket than a bag.

Probably a PITA to get through screening to empty all the pockets, but if it gets through free and drives the TSA goons nuts, all the better.


No need to empty the pockets, just take it off and pass through the x-ray machine.
 
2013-05-12 02:20:15 PM  

dukeblue219: Your Average Witty Fark User: I remember paying under $200 for round trip airfare to Vegas, and that INCLUDED lodging for four or five nights

When was this? How much has inflation and fuel prices changed since then?


During the last years of the Clinton administration.

I fully understand inflation, what I don't understand is why Southwest was the only airline to accurately forecast the rise in fuel prices. I'm not going to pay more because you can't manage your business. I'll drive instead.
 
2013-05-12 02:20:17 PM  
anfrind: I recently read that the technology exists, for example, to build a train system in which the train rides through a vacuum tube (the train would have its own pressurized cabin) on a maglev or similar track, and would be able to achieve a top speed of about 4,000 miles per hour, easily moving people and cargo faster than any airplane.  The problem, of course, is that designing and building even a proof-of-concept is prohibitively expensive and would upset a lot of moneyed interests.

Oooooh! A human bunny-tube! Will I 'ding' upon arrival?
 
2013-05-12 02:22:30 PM  

Savage Belief: Between this, the tsa gropers and the porn xray scanners it's a wonder anyone flies anymore.


I don't...

Well, that and I'm poor and started a new job and have like no vacation days right now... meh, maybe in a few years i'll take another long vacation. 5 years ago before I started my previous job, me and the hubby and a friend all took a nice 2-3 week vacation and we drove from Wisconsin all the way out to Seattle, then drove down the California coast to San Francisco, came back up and around thru Utah and hit the national parks, stopped in Colorado, etc.  It was an amazing trip and loved the entire drive! Flying to all of those places would be super expensive and you'd miss so much. I Much prefer road trips anyways!
 
2013-05-12 02:25:49 PM  
In reality, people just need to somewhat ignore the fees, or rather, don't get so worked up about them...it's really just the cost of flying being presented in a more itemized fashion, thanks in part due to internet ticket sales.  The fees are used to allow the base ticket cost to be more competitive, as it is compared side by side with other base ticket costs.

I suspect this will be short term, because it doesn't seem like it would be that hard for a travel site to include more questions prior to the search that would then allow it more accurately calculate the cost (e.g. number of checked bags, number of carry-ons).

Psychologically it's annoying, but you just have to look past it and accept that the $99 ticket price is really a $199 ticket...and just whether its still affordable from that perspective.

/no association with any airline...just tired of useless outrage
 
2013-05-12 02:34:02 PM  

eggrolls: iron_city_ap: If its under a 5-6 hour drive, I drive. If its longer, I fly.

8 hours is where I *start* to consider a flight.

Boston to Baltimore next week. 7 hours by car from home to hotel, 7 by plane including security, and that's just from airport to airport. Why bother?


That's a bit extreme.  I've done day trips from Boston to DC (BWI and National) without it being too bad for either time or money.  Driving from Boston to Baltimore can be way longer than 7 hours if you get stuck in traffic near NYC or on the NJ Turnpike.
 
2013-05-12 03:08:56 PM  

namegoeshere: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Can't get there from here.


There is no there there.
 
2013-05-12 03:15:52 PM  
I live in the Seattle area.  Vancouver, Spokane, and Portland have always been faster to reach by car than by air considering travel to and from airports and time to clear security.  Boise is borderline.

Lately the radius within which I'd prefer to drive has expanded from that representing a 6-hour drive to that representing a 2-day drive.  Salt Lake, Reno, and the Bay Area are within one long day's drive, and I can get to Denver, Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Los Angeles in 2 days.

I'd also rather spend 4 days driving to Anchorage and take as much stuff as I want than fly and pay baggage fees.
 
2013-05-12 03:26:10 PM  

Carth: He_Hate_Me: Why is everyone complaining?  If you'd just fly first class, you'd get your own bed.

[i67.photobucket.com image 470x353]

/let them eat cake

That as first class? Maybe 5-10 years ago.

[www.justfares.com image 632x474]

is what it looks like now.


www.justfares.com

Whoa hoss...if that's part of the furniture, I need to start flying more often.

/obscure?
 
2013-05-12 03:28:47 PM  
They should be charging the passengers and their baggage by weight and seat capacity.
 
2013-05-12 03:31:14 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Psychologically it's annoying, but you just have to look past it and accept that the $99 ticket price is really a $199 ticket...and just whether its still affordable from that perspective.


I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but I firmly believe this attitude summarizes concisely so much about what is wrong with this country.  That we're just supposed to accept that it's an expected part of regular daily life to be lied to by the powerful and connected, and that not only is this to be expected, but we shouldn't even care to try doing anything about it.

That's a $199 ticket, not a $99 ticket.  It's not okay to just call it a $99 ticket because that sells better, and because (almost) everyone else is doing the same thing.  It's fraud.  It's lying,  It's bullshiat.  It's wrong.
 
2013-05-12 03:35:40 PM  
United Airlines quietly raised its change fees... American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways quickly followed.

How doesn't that count as collusion?


shroom: That's a $199 ticket, not a $99 ticket. It's not okay to just call it a $99 ticket because that sells better, and because (almost) everyone else is doing the same thing. It's fraud. It's lying, It's bullshiat. It's wrong.


I agree. It's like hotels charging $25/night "resort fees".
 
2013-05-12 03:35:50 PM  

Stone Meadow: Carth: He_Hate_Me: Why is everyone complaining?  If you'd just fly first class, you'd get your own bed.

[i67.photobucket.com image 470x353]

/let them eat cake

That as first class? Maybe 5-10 years ago.

[www.justfares.com image 632x474]

is what it looks like now.

[www.justfares.com image 632x474]

Whoa hoss...if that's part of the furniture, I need to start flying more often.

/obscure?


Soylent Green is never obscure.
 
2013-05-12 03:39:12 PM  
Don't fly, kick, popcorn, etc.

The insecurity theater drove me off air travel long before 9/11, and having read of insecurity stupidity being applied to trains and buses, as far as I'm concerned, mass transit does not exist.

If I can't drive there, I don't go.

Between the intolerable insecurity conditions, and this new fees-everywhere tactic combining to drive people to drive more, I see a self-destructive circle forming.

My only complaint about people going off other forms of travel is the increased road traffic. I have no problem with long-haul driving, a 24 hour trip is two days road time for me.

Yes, it requires extra time, but as I do not have realistic alternatives to driving, I factor the time in.
 
2013-05-12 03:39:18 PM  
Haven't flown on any airlines since 1993, will DRIVE instead of putting up with being treated like cattle going to slaughter.
 
2013-05-12 03:52:55 PM  

cig-mkr: Yep, I'll drive
[s3.amazonaws.com image 600x342]


Looks like the 5 in the valley.
 
2013-05-12 03:53:02 PM  

Gig103: United Airlines quietly raised its change fees... American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways quickly followed.

How doesn't that count as collusion?



Because it is not.
 
2013-05-12 04:07:14 PM  
I make a 12 or so hour drive to Chicago every now and then, and I make it fly by.  I always bring audio books, short story collections, whatever.  I use to travel 80% of the time on business and always flew.  I seriously don't miss that crap at all.
 
2013-05-12 04:12:01 PM  

p51d007: Haven't flown on any airlines since 1993, will DRIVE instead of putting up with being treated like cattle going to slaughter.


Um... look, guy, I'm not one to defend the airlines, but if you haven't been on a plane in twenty years it's either because you've never gone anywhere in that time where it would make sense to fly, or you have a problem with flying that goes WAY beyond disappointing customer service.

Not that there's anything wrong with any of that, it's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice etc., but that's like me saying I haven't touched alcohol in twenty years because Zima was so disappointing.
 
2013-05-12 04:19:30 PM  

saturn badger: namegoeshere: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Can't get there from here.

There is no there there.


I know.  As soon as you get to there it becomes here.
 
2013-05-12 04:21:24 PM  

shroom: Nuclear Monk: Psychologically it's annoying, but you just have to look past it and accept that the $99 ticket price is really a $199 ticket...and just whether its still affordable from that perspective.

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but I firmly believe this attitude summarizes concisely so much about what is wrong with this country.  That we're just supposed to accept that it's an expected part of regular daily life to be lied to by the powerful and connected, and that not only is this to be expected, but we shouldn't even care to try doing anything about it.

That's a $199 ticket, not a $99 ticket.  It's not okay to just call it a $99 ticket because that sells better, and because (almost) everyone else is doing the same thing.  It's fraud.  It's lying,  It's bullshiat.  It's wrong.


No it's not.  It's still $99 if you don't check baggage, etc.  I fly multiple times a month and the only time I checked a bag in the last year was when I went to Buenos Aires for a week.  Have to go through customs anyway.  And no, I don't even have a huge wheelie suitcase.  I have a small soft sided suitcase with wheels, but it's pretty small and squishes smaller, and a backpack I can put under the seat in front of me.   Carries everything I need, and I don't pay any of the other extra fees either.  Except the change fee, but that's different from ticket cost.

So personally, I'd much rather have the option of not paying the baggage fee than have it built into the ticket.
 
2013-05-12 04:44:30 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there


From there to here,
funny things are everywhere.
 
2013-05-12 04:50:48 PM  
i rode on Amtrak last year a couple of times (Baltimore-DC-Harper's Ferry, Harrisburg-Philly)

say what you will about the lack of access and the woefully cheap seating system (pieces of tape)

that was a way better experience than flying, i mean you get HUGE amounts of leg room (enough for myself stretched out + my hiking gear), no check-in (you just bring it with you), there were wall outlets right there next to me so i could charge my stuff, and i could still use my phone/devices (also, free wifi!)
 
2013-05-12 04:52:16 PM  

aerojockey: $100 for a carry on bag


www.aerojockey.com 

/passeners holding up the line so they can cram their oversized bags in the overhead bin are the most annoying thing about flying

i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-12 05:00:40 PM  

anfrind: Stone Meadow: obscure?

Soylent Green is never obscure.


Yeah, there was never any hope of that. ;^)
 
2013-05-12 05:17:56 PM  

dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?


Any drive less than six hours. It takes at least 3 hours to fly ANYWHERE, door to door, and 5-8 if you have to connect. So Atlanta to New York, yeah, you have to fly. Atlanta to Nashvile? No freakin' way would I fly rather than do the four-and-a-half-hour drive.
 
2013-05-12 05:33:04 PM  
From the article "Can't Congress do something? Not really. "
I beg to differ.
Standard Oil co. and ATT didn't just decide to split up on their own.
 
2013-05-12 05:50:26 PM  

AdamK: i rode on Amtrak last year a couple of times (Baltimore-DC-Harper's Ferry, Harrisburg-Philly)

say what you will about the lack of access and the woefully cheap seating system (pieces of tape)

that was a way better experience than flying, i mean you get HUGE amounts of leg room (enough for myself stretched out + my hiking gear), no check-in (you just bring it with you), there were wall outlets right there next to me so i could charge my stuff, and i could still use my phone/devices (also, free wifi!)


I'm seriously considering doing something like that for a trip this summer.  I just did a bit of online research and came up with the following options:

1. Fly with one stop, ~$500 round trip, about 7 hours travel time each way.
2. Fly non-stop, ~$600 round trip, about 5 hours travel time each way.
2. Drive, ~$550 worth of gasoline round trip, about 24 hours travel each way time plus sleeping breaks (lodging cost not determined).
3. Take Amtrak, change trains once, ~$350, about 31 hours travel time each way.
4. Same as #3 except with a roomette for sleeping on the longer stretch, ~$825 round trip (for some reason the roomette on the return trip costs twice as much as on the trip out).

To be honest, in that particular case Amtrak seems close enough in price that it might be worth the extra cost to get some extra leg room and possibly a bed to sleep on, assuming I can get the extra time off.
 
2013-05-12 06:19:00 PM  

enry: eggrolls: iron_city_ap: If its under a 5-6 hour drive, I drive. If its longer, I fly.

8 hours is where I *start* to consider a flight.

Boston to Baltimore next week. 7 hours by car from home to hotel, 7 by plane including security, and that's just from airport to airport. Why bother?

That's a bit extreme.  I've done day trips from Boston to DC (BWI and National) without it being too bad for either time or money.  Driving from Boston to Baltimore can be way longer than 7 hours if you get stuck in traffic near NYC or on the NJ Turnpike.


Mass Turnpike to I84 to NYS Thruway - switch to 287, then pick up I-95/NJTPK in the NJ back woods after NYC mess. And I'm traveling on a Saturday
 
2013-05-12 06:38:01 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: saturn badger: namegoeshere: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Can't get there from here.

There is no there there.

I know.  As soon as you get to there it becomes here.


And then here becomes where you don't want to be.

http://members.chello.nl/smetaal/usu1.htm

So you leave there to go anywhere.
 
2013-05-12 06:45:05 PM  
It's costing the manfriend and I about $2,200 (total, roundtrip) to fly economy on BA from Atlanta to Heathrow with no stops (we paid extra for the luxury of not having to stop by about $100 per person). This is more reasonable than the $3,500 it would've cost us to take American. This is the second flight we've taken in the last six months and it was more expensive this time around than it was to go during the Christmas and New Year holidays. The hell is up with that?

I've never had to fly domestically because even the 10 hour drive from New Orleans to Orlando my family used to take annually was done via car and I'm used to driving. I'd love to see Amtrak updated with better rails, the ability to actually reach it's top speeds (12 hours from New Orleans to Atlanta on Amtrak when it takes seven hours to drive), and I would take the train in a goddamn second over the hassle of flying. Plus the train has a observation car and I can bring my own booze and stretch my legs without a twitchy flight attendant telling me I've been doing leg stretches in the aisle for two minutes and therefore need to sit down.
 
2013-05-12 06:56:37 PM  
I am mixed on the carry on bag fee.  It would suck if it applies to all carry-ons since I usually have a laptop bag and a small gym bag.  However, if it only applied to all the ass clowns who try to bring on the biggest rollaway possible then I would be all for it.  These retards slow the loading process to a crawl.
 
2013-05-12 07:08:34 PM  

Mock26: Gig103: United Airlines quietly raised its change fees... American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways quickly followed.

How doesn't that count as collusion?

Because it is not.


I was asking how, not just if it is or not. I see it as a fine line between meeting and saying "Let's make the price $200" and "Hey look, USAir raised their price so let's all do the same instead of being competitive"
 
2013-05-12 07:32:10 PM  

RocketRay: cig-mkr: Yep, I'll drive
[s3.amazonaws.com image 600x342]

Looks like the 5 in the valley.


Actually, it looks a whole lot like the 5 out near Calabasas - at about 5 PM on a weekday.  I've driven that route when going between Anaheim and Sacramento WAY too many times.

The only time my guy or I will consider flying over driving is if it's a trip one or the other of us has to make alone.  We learned that Dallas to Anaheim is about a 16-18 hour drive, depending on which route we take.  Dallas to NYC is about 22 hours.  So we have to add a couple of days to the length of a trip, which is not a big deal.

The best part: I don't have to worry about my cameras, my computers or any of my luggage getting lost.  I am not subjected to the entertainment choices of others.  I don't have to listen to screaming kids.  I can carry my full sized shampoo and body wash.  I can pack my own drinks and snacks.  I don't have to worry if, should I buy things on the trip, that I'll be forced to pony up checked bag fees.

In short, screw the airlines as long as I have car keys.
 
2013-05-12 07:47:27 PM  

Gig103: Mock26: Gig103: United Airlines quietly raised its change fees... American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways quickly followed.

How doesn't that count as collusion?

Because it is not.

I was asking how, not just if it is or not. I see it as a fine line between meeting and saying "Let's make the price $200" and "Hey look, USAir raised their price so let's all do the same instead of being competitive"


It is just businesses trying to keep up with each other.  So, United raised its change fees.  If the other airlines did not then they would suck business off of United.  But, United could then respond by dropping prices elsewhere and not only steal back its lost business but also get some more.  And everyone starts cutting prices to undercut the competition they all lose money, but the bottom line is different for all airlines and a costing cutting war will put some of them out of business.  So, the owners instead take the stance that for their own survivability it is best to keep their prices very close to that of the competitors.  There is no need for collusion when it is in their best interest to match prices.

Of course, I am probably making a hash of all of that, because it was something I read years ago in a newspaper article about airline pricing and I could very well be 100% wrong.
 
2013-05-12 08:04:30 PM  
There is only one way to fight a leviathan.  Shut of it's money, because it's money is it's air supply.  You starve it.  Difficulty, you might have to be inconvenienced.
 
2013-05-12 08:55:57 PM  

bunner: There is only one way to fight a leviathan.  Shut of it's money, because it's money is it's air supply.  You starve it.  Difficulty, you might have to be inconvenienced.


I think that's pretty much the message here...wouldn't you agree?
 
2013-05-12 08:59:00 PM  
I solved this problem a few years ago.

Anyone who travels frequently to the same place. Stay at the same hotel as often as possible, Join their club . I am a Diamond Hilton Honors member.
Get to know the front desk people. When you make your reservation, tell them they are going to receive a fed ex package the day of or before your arrival and to hold it for you. If it arrives the day of they will put it in your room for you.

Fed Ex your luggage using the corporate account make sure to insert an extra slip and ticket for the return trip.

When you leave drop the same box off at the front counter. It actually costs less in the long run when you are only shipping a few changes of clothes and minimal personal care items.

Makes getting through security a breeze, I leave my laptop at the office most of the time.
 
2013-05-12 09:02:48 PM  

dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?


Bangor Maine to Honolulu
 
2013-05-12 09:06:14 PM  

bunner: aerojockey: $100 for a carry on bag

[www.aerojockey.com image 379x214] 

/passeners holding up the line so they can cram their oversized bags in the overhead bin are the most annoying thing about flying

[i.imgur.com image 377x213]


Carry on bags contain the stuff you might want for the flight - book(s)/kindle, laptop maybe, a bottle of water, travel documents, maybe that little pillow that helps you sleep. The overhead locker then takes (mostly empty) bags, coats, hats etc.

People who take their whole farking suitcase on the plane are annoying because they take up the whole fracking locker and their enormous bag crushes my hat. Your 5 minutes wait to get your bag back out of the hold is not more important than my hat, no sir!
 
2013-05-12 09:16:29 PM  

Mock26: Of course, I am probably making a hash of all of that, because it was something I read years ago in a newspaper article about airline pricing and I could very well be 100% wrong.


It's probably at least sort of true, but then again the newspaper could have been swallowing the airlines' BS... meh. I sort of like driving cross country, but it may be a while before I get to do it again..
 
2013-05-12 09:47:22 PM  
Flying from one of Allegiantair hubs used to be great. NW Indiana to Orlando + hotel for 7 days + rental car for a family of 4 in 2011 = $1400.

Now, it's a minimum $2000.

It's a long drive, but for $900 including rental, gas, food and a cheap hotel on the way, I think we're driving this time.
 
2013-05-13 12:19:32 AM  

Gothnet: People who take their whole farking suitcase on the plane are annoying because they take up the whole fracking locker and their enormous bag crushes my hat. Your 5 minutes wait to get your bag back out of the hold is not more important than my hat, no sir!


It's not the 5 minutes, it's the $50 round trip, which you are free to cough up for me. I think the best/fairest way to do it would be "one roller bag free", whether it's in the main cabin at the normal carry-on size, or one checked in the hold up to 50lbs. Because I know I'd rather be bag-free going through TSA if it wasn't $100 for my wife and I to do so.
 
2013-05-13 12:37:37 AM  

edmo: I've taken to driving if it's 10 hours time or less for my personal travel. For business, whatever.

It's boring driving: no terrorists, food is available and prices are reasonable, no strangers fondling my nads, and once I arrive, if the driveway is full I just park on the street and walk in.


My personal rule of thumb is to drive if it is <= 18 hours drive time. I figure that once you add up the travel time to the airport, how early you "must" be there, potential waits at connections, the inconvenience of having to travel as light as possible, the fees for taking anything with you, the parking fees, the potential for lost/damaged baggage or the TSA stealing stuff from your bags (happens high % of time to me), the lack of comfort on the plane due to myriad factors, etc, etc...

I'll take my car.

In my car, I can take whatever I want (especially video game stuff when having to visit relatives), experience comfort which offers climate control, noise control, passenger control, the ability to get a beverage when I want it (and at reasonable prices), the ability to get food, not having to x-ray my xbox HDD and get it scrambled (again), not having my stuff stolen (unless my car is, and then I'm insured), and the chance to see some neat scenery!

Yes, I'll only fly if it is practically impossible to drive from point A to B (e.g. U.S. to England) or if driving would take so long that it would require a hotel stay (which I define as 18+ hrs, but could stretch to 24+ if I HAD to) OR if the ticket price is SO cheap that the cost of flying is way less than driving (hundreds of $$).

For business, I don't give a crap because I'm not paying for anything and I'm being compensated for my time. Also, I can feel free to fly from a more local and smaller airport (typically more $$) which adds to the convenience. Fortunately, I currently am only traveling in-state so I don't even have to bother with the airline headache.

Special note: You can also check into getting your own plane and pilot's license. The main cost (besides BUYING the plane) is the required maintenance on the plane, but the convenience is unparalleled, with access to many small non-commercial airports which have nice amenities, possibly including loaner cars.
 
2013-05-13 03:24:01 AM  

namegoeshere: Smeggy Smurf: dstanley: Drive from where to where, exactly?

From here to there

Can't get there from here,

Baby...And I don't care where I'm going
 
2013-05-13 05:21:27 AM  

Gig103: Gothnet: People who take their whole farking suitcase on the plane are annoying because they take up the whole fracking locker and their enormous bag crushes my hat. Your 5 minutes wait to get your bag back out of the hold is not more important than my hat, no sir!

It's not the 5 minutes, it's the $50 round trip, which you are free to cough up for me. I think the best/fairest way to do it would be "one roller bag free", whether it's in the main cabin at the normal carry-on size, or one checked in the hold up to 50lbs. Because I know I'd rather be bag-free going through TSA if it wasn't $100 for my wife and I to do so.



In fairness I didn't know that was a thing they charged for, I only ever fly international (there's little point in domestic flying in the UK). I can see why people would do that now
 
2013-05-13 07:12:54 AM  

Carth: letrole: don't like capitalism?

so go setup and run your own airline, comrade

How about we remove the regulation letting only US owned airlines fly between domestic destinations instead? If we could have Cathay Pacific or lufthansa fly us NY to LA i bet other airlines would have to improve their service pretty quick.




I would fly Virgin all day everyday. Id fly Virgin just to have something to do. They do flying farking right.
 
2013-05-13 08:28:33 AM  
Haha, even if we all stop flying, Obama will just hand your money to them and raise your taxes to do it, why? Because fark you, that's why! You'll take that dick from your corporate masters and love it whether you like it or not.
 
2013-05-13 09:04:30 AM  

Z1P2: Haha, even if we all stop flying, Obama will just hand your money to them and raise your taxes to do it,


i1197.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-13 11:36:16 AM  
The last time I flew, it was right after that idiot tried to set his shoes on fire.

At the time, my hair was long enough to be in a ponytail and I had a beard.

Guess who "randomly" got pulled aside for extra security checks?  I even got pulled aside right when I was about to board the farking plane.

I'm now short-haired and clean-shaven, but I drive everywhere now.
 
2013-05-13 01:20:43 PM  

Gothnet: Gig103: Gothnet: People who take their whole farking suitcase on the plane are annoying because they take up the whole fracking locker and their enormous bag crushes my hat. Your 5 minutes wait to get your bag back out of the hold is not more important than my hat, no sir!

It's not the 5 minutes, it's the $50 round trip, which you are free to cough up for me. I think the best/fairest way to do it would be "one roller bag free", whether it's in the main cabin at the normal carry-on size, or one checked in the hold up to 50lbs. Because I know I'd rather be bag-free going through TSA if it wasn't $100 for my wife and I to do so.


In fairness I didn't know that was a thing they charged for, I only ever fly international (there's little point in domestic flying in the UK). I can see why people would do that now


Ah, gotcha - and it's possible UK airlines don't do the same. I do have a correction, it's $25/bag each way, not $50, I was confusing the cargo hold with the cabin. But yeah.
 
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