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(Phys Org2)   "Sitting around for eight hours waiting for your (Nissan) Leaf to charge up is not exactly a selling point. EVs have a sitting-on-your-ass factor that conventional cars do not"   (phys.org) divider line 180
    More: Fail, conventional car, J.D. Power, Center for Automotive Research, Rebecca Lindland, Fisker Automotive, plug-in electric car, Sergio Marchionne, government-backed loan  
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3195 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 May 2013 at 10:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-12 06:31:02 PM  

Electrify: Quick question: Why do so many Americans live so far away from work? Canada has plenty of sprawl as well, but even then a 30 mile commute each way is at the top end of our daily travel range, and many of those commutes are done by commuter train rather than car. Seriously, why the hell are people commuting 50, 80, even 100 miles each way? By this point you are well outside the metropolitan statistical area and approaching cross-state commuting!


Because rent is cheap out there, and their time is totally worthless, and their only car maintenance expense is gas.

/In other words, they can't do math.
 
2013-05-12 06:51:02 PM  

Shaggy_C: Batteries become less efficient with each charging cycle. Your 300 mile charge will be a 50 mile charge by year 5. Resale market for electrics cars will suck - hopefully the companies have recycling plans in place.


These are not lead acid or nickel metal hydride batteries.  The batteries they are currently putting in electric vehicles are good for 2000-3000 cycles.  I assume that you are not very good at math, but for a car with a 100 mile range like the leaf, you are good for 200,000 to 300,000 miles. For the Tesla with its 250 mile range, you are good for 500,000 to 750,000 miles.  In other words, you could not possibly be more wrong.
 
2013-05-12 07:13:41 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Chevello: so I just need something for the 4 mile commute that won't get punted off the road by every stupid soccer mom in an Escalade or gardener with an overloaded trailer.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x566]


While extremely badass, to me that thing is more terrifying to me than a roomful of Thai ladyboys on viagra.

If the road on that 4 miles was designed better, it would make sense to ride a bike; either motorized or non. I do keep thinking about building my own electric car. Unfortunately,  a pair of electric forklifts, and an Audi A8 with AWD and a blown engine haven't fallen out of the sky into my back yard yet, so... :(

I do enjoy looking at and reading about neat things though, so that was pretty cool
 
2013-05-12 07:14:23 PM  
What nobody seems to recognize is the sheer number of people that live in apartments ~25% of all americans.  I have no way to charge an electric car even though I should be in the perfect demographic.  My wife and I take a bus to work even though we have a car (because it is cheaper/easier than parking in Boston).  Even though we drive all weekend and often during the evenings we get gas once per month.  But the only way to charge an electric car would be to run an extension cord up to my second floor apartment and through a window.  It would even be difficult for my parents to charge an electric car because they don't have garages and would need to run an extension cord.
 
2013-05-12 07:16:04 PM  
I have been driving my LEAF for going on 3 years and have NEVER waited for 9 hours to get home. The most has been 1 hour at the local pub or local icecream shop enjoying an IPA or shake while I wait for charge.
 
2013-05-12 07:18:28 PM  

tzzhc4: I have been driving my LEAF for going on 3 years and have NEVER waited for 9 hours to get home. The most has been 1 hour at the local pub or local icecream shop enjoying an IPA or shake while I wait for charge.


And my daily commute is 70 miles daily. So I call shenanigans.
 
2013-05-12 07:19:14 PM  

tzzhc4: tzzhc4: I have been driving my LEAF for going on 3 years and have NEVER waited for 9 hours to get home. The most has been 1 hour at the local pub or local icecream shop enjoying an IPA or shake while I wait for charge.

And my daily commute is 70 miles daily. So I call shenanigans.


#redundant
 
2013-05-12 07:38:56 PM  

Hollie Maea: Waldo Pepper: germ78: If you're sitting on your ass at work for 8 hours a day, might as well use that time to let it charge.

Where do you plug it in?

Find a standard 110V outlet.  You will get 40 miles of range while you work. It will cost your employer 60 cents, so make sure you ask permission first!


After one of the other EV threads, I walked around the parking lot to find a 110V outlet.  Looks like I'd need a looooooooooong extension cord, plus cross the building's driveway to get to an outlet.  It would be pricey to set up and the daily traffic running over the cord means frequent replacement.

Is my suburban Atlanta office building behind the times or do most of them not have outlets in the parking lot?
 
2013-05-12 07:40:06 PM  

Dinjiin: Waldo Pepper (favorite: fundie troll): Using a higher quality bait might help you with your trolling

Says the troll himself.


I was teaching from experience ;-)
 
2013-05-12 07:49:27 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: 2 years ago, if you said you were buying an electric car, people would mostly laugh at you.
Now, some people laugh but many ask questions, as they are starting to enter the mainstream.
5 years from now electric will be a standard choice and will have a fair share of the market.
15 years from now almost nobody will make or sell internal combustion vehicles.


And I'll still be driving my 82 silverado pulling people to charging stations.
 
2013-05-12 07:50:39 PM  

wildlifer: And I'll still be driving my 82 silverado pulling people to charging stations.


Keep dreaming.
 
2013-05-12 07:52:39 PM  

RickN99: After one of the other EV threads, I walked around the parking lot to find a 110V outlet.  Looks like I'd need a looooooooooong extension cord, plus cross the building's driveway to get to an outlet.  It would be pricey to set up and the daily traffic running over the cord means frequent replacement.

Is my suburban Atlanta office building behind the times or do most of them not have outlets in the parking lot?


There are certainly buildings/parking lots that exist that don't have outdoor outlets, but far more often than not they do.  A lot of times there are outlets on lightpoles in parking lots.  Often several weatherproof outlets along the edge of buildings.  I think I am going to start taking pictures of them when I see them because this is nowhere near the last time we will have this thread.
 
2013-05-12 07:55:18 PM  

satanorsanta: What nobody seems to recognize is the sheer number of people that live in apartments ~25% of all americans.


And the sheer number of people that live in the sticks, and the number of soccer moms who swear by their minivans, and the number of people who would rather be tied to the local gas station than whether or not they remembered to plug in their car overnight, and and and...

I can get the practicality of an EV - for a certain segment of drivers. The evangelizing, however, has my head canted given that we're just not there yet to where EVs will be the next Model T, and I'm unsure if it ever will be. When you have an EV be the next F150, Caravan, or sport crossover, then we might be on to something.
 
2013-05-12 07:57:55 PM  

Hollie Maea: wildlifer: And I'll still be driving my 82 silverado pulling people to charging stations.

Keep dreaming.


332,000 miles and counting. I can fix it with a small set of tools. No computer required. Parts are even on deep discount on amazon.
 
2013-05-12 08:07:04 PM  
I wonder what the critical mass needs to be before the automobile associations put a few charging trucks online to their roadside assistance fleet?  That would give a little more comfort if you could have AAA/CAA come out and charge you up with a mobile DC fast charge system if you miscalculated your distances or were counting on topping up at a charger but found it was out of order.
 
2013-05-12 08:07:08 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: 15 years from now almost nobody will make or sell internal combustion vehicles.


The US has enough natural gas to last us 100+ years and its cheaper/emits less polution than oil.  Plus, I could gas up in my own garage.

I would so buy a CNG powered Honda Civic.  If they would only sell more than 2,000 a year in the US.
 
2013-05-12 08:09:38 PM  

Hollie Maea: Notabunny: Plug-in electric cars are a stepping stone. The future is hydrogen fuel cells.


[img.photobucket.com image 275x183]

Hydrogen is way behind EVs and falling behind every year.  In a couple of years when people finally realize that refilling speed is a non factor, no one will ever even think about hydrogen cars again.


How much carbon dioxide and fine particulate soot is put into the atmosphere when making electricity? How much for hydrogen? I don't think people are going to forget about wanting to breath clean air.
 
2013-05-12 08:09:42 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Reverend Monkeypants: SO you're suggesting we end oil subsides?

End any subsidies that are given to companies specifically because they sell/process/mine oil. Do not end general subsidies to them simply because they sell/process/mine oil.


So create subsidies for general development of future energy technology but not specific ones?
 
2013-05-12 08:16:37 PM  
Increase the federal tax credit to $15,000 and eliminate state sales tax for purchasing one of these, and see what happens.
 
2013-05-12 08:24:29 PM  
I want an electric car. Make it affordable and practical and I'll buy it.
 
2013-05-12 08:40:42 PM  

ox45tallboy: born_yesterday: While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).

Because those gasoline pumps will keep right on working with no electricity, right?


Except that gas station pumps can be run by generators.  That's what they did during Sandy in NJ for areas with no power during gas rationing.  One generator will run a pump that can fuel hundreds of cars or charge one EV vehicle, maybe.
 
2013-05-12 08:53:09 PM  

Great Janitor: Now, if you lived in a city like Chicago or New York and really wanted a car over the mass transit the city provides, then the Leaf would be a decent option


You'd have to have better charging infrastructure available. A lot of people don't have garages or dedicated parking spaces so charging your car would be a challenge when you have to park down the block.
 
2013-05-12 08:58:08 PM  

trackerbri: I wonder what the critical mass needs to be before the automobile associations put a few charging trucks online to their roadside assistance fleet?  That would give a little more comfort if you could have AAA/CAA come out and charge you up with a mobile DC fast charge system if you miscalculated your distances or were counting on topping up at a charger but found it was out of order.


They already have that service here in the Portland area.
 
2013-05-12 09:03:38 PM  

satanorsanta: What nobody seems to recognize is the sheer number of people that live in apartments ~25% of all americans.  I have no way to charge an electric car even though I should be in the perfect demographic.  My wife and I take a bus to work even though we have a car (because it is cheaper/easier than parking in Boston).  Even though we drive all weekend and often during the evenings we get gas once per month.  But the only way to charge an electric car would be to run an extension cord up to my second floor apartment and through a window.  It would even be difficult for my parents to charge an electric car because they don't have garages and would need to run an extension cord.


Same here. It's only a five mile commute each way. But no outlets available at either end of the trip.
 
2013-05-12 09:03:52 PM  

Notabunny: How much carbon dioxide and fine particulate soot is put into the atmosphere when making electricity? How much for hydrogen? I don't think people are going to forget about wanting to breath clean air.


More for hydrogen.  A lot more.  Hydrogen is either made from reforming hydrocarbons (with CO2 as the byproduct) or by electrolysis of water (uses electricity and is inefficient).  Once you have the hydrogen, your fuel cell is significantly less efficient than a battery.
 
2013-05-12 09:05:00 PM  

wildlifer: 332,000 miles and counting. I can fix it with a small set of tools. No computer required. Parts are even on deep discount on amazon.


Oh, I don't doubt that your rig is indestructable.  But I think you will find far fewer stranded EVers to play hero for than you expect.
 
2013-05-12 09:07:22 PM  

bingethinker: Same here. It's only a five mile commute each way. But no outlets available at either end of the trip.


Talk to your apartment manager.  Level 2 EVSEs are so cheap these days, I'll bet you could talk them to installing one and using it as a selling point.  Or talk to your employer.  They might do it for the green cred.  Seriously those things are cheap.  My workplace has a level 2 charger that is freely available for anyone to use.  So does the Walgreens across the street.  And the Fred Meyers down the road.  And the public library.
 
2013-05-12 09:24:02 PM  

ha-ha-guy: After which the hydrogen fuel cell will pretty much destroy both gas and electric.


Hydrogen is not a fuel. The energy cost of manufacturing, transporting and storing hydrogen makes this a total loser. The cycle is less than 18% efficient, which is worse than the gasoline cars of the 1950s.
 
2013-05-12 09:28:10 PM  

Hollie Maea: Notabunny: How much carbon dioxide and fine particulate soot is put into the atmosphere when making electricity? How much for hydrogen? I don't think people are going to forget about wanting to breath clean air.

More for hydrogen.  A lot more.  Hydrogen is either made from reforming hydrocarbons (with CO2 as the byproduct) or by electrolysis of water (uses electricity and is inefficient).  Once you have the hydrogen, your fuel cell is significantly less efficient than a battery.



That's weird. Because the hydrogen filling stations Honda built in LA are solar powered. At this point though, efficiency isn't the most important criteria. Both are young technologies and have to overcome many hurdles before becoming mainstream, while at the same time competing against a hugely profitable industry which has been receiving huge government subsidies for a century. However, I believe a form of energy which generates no pollution in its creation, and which emits only water when used, is ultimately going to win the contest. Probably not next week, but ultimately.
 
2013-05-12 09:33:27 PM  

Hollie Maea: bingethinker: Same here. It's only a five mile commute each way. But no outlets available at either end of the trip.

Talk to your apartment manager.  Level 2 EVSEs are so cheap these days, I'll bet you could talk them to installing one and using it as a selling point.  Or talk to your employer.  They might do it for the green cred.  Seriously those things are cheap.  My workplace has a level 2 charger that is freely available for anyone to use.  So does the Walgreens across the street.  And the Fred Meyers down the road.  And the public library.


Furthermore, many of the companies that sell charging equipment are more than happy to help would-be customers negotiate with skeptical landlords and HOA's.
 
2013-05-12 09:39:28 PM  

dobro: All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.


I don't see how it will ever be as convenient to winch multi-hundred-pound battery packs into and out of place as it is to pump one or two dozen gallons of liquid from tank A to tank B.

Or why gas stations would be interested in keeping racks of charged battery packs ready to go, when they're bound to be less profitable by volume than liquid gasoline.
 
2013-05-12 09:45:53 PM  

Shaggy_C: Batteries become less efficient with each charging cycle. Your 300 mile charge will be a 50 mile charge by year 5. Resale market for electrics cars will suck


I wish there were some sort of market we could look at to see if battery efficiency really does decrease over a span of about a dozen years, ultimately affecting the resale value of certain cars.

Perhaps there were some sort of half-battery-powered, half-gas-powered car that we could review the numbers for.
 
2013-05-12 09:46:49 PM  

ajgeek: <i>Lindland said her view that Americans "just don't see how an electric car can fit into their lifestyle. We continue to be risk-averse in investing in <a data-cke-saved-href="http://phys.org/tags/new+technology/" rel="tag" class="textTag">new technology in our cars." </i>

Let's see. Infrastructure isn't in place, nearest dealer to me is over 500 miles away, significantly higher cost than a standard internal combustion horse, lower range, no mechanics, proprietary designs with no access to blueprints or designs... oh and an 8 hour charge powered by gasoline!

News flash! HALF of America doesn't live in urbania. If you want this, put real money into battery gasoline technology.


Updated your comment to 1913 standards
 
2013-05-12 09:56:11 PM  

Hollie Maea: trackerbri: I wonder what the critical mass needs to be before the automobile associations put a few charging trucks online to their roadside assistance fleet?  That would give a little more comfort if you could have AAA/CAA come out and charge you up with a mobile DC fast charge system if you miscalculated your distances or were counting on topping up at a charger but found it was out of order.

They already have that service here in the Portland area.


Seattle, too.
 
2013-05-12 10:14:18 PM  

Hollie Maea: bingethinker: Same here. It's only a five mile commute each way. But no outlets available at either end of the trip.

Talk to your apartment manager.  Level 2 EVSEs are so cheap these days, I'll bet you could talk them to installing one and using it as a selling point.  Or talk to your employer.  They might do it for the green cred.  Seriously those things are cheap.  My workplace has a level 2 charger that is freely available for anyone to use.  So does the Walgreens across the street.  And the Fred Meyers down the road.  And the public library.


Oh, they installed a charging station for the president's Leaf, but nobody else can use it.
 
2013-05-12 10:35:45 PM  

Notabunny: That's weird. Because the hydrogen filling stations Honda built in LA are solar powered. At this point though, efficiency isn't the most important criteria. Both are young technologies and have to overcome many hurdles before becoming mainstream, while at the same time competing against a hugely profitable industry which has been receiving huge government subsidies for a century. However, I believe a form of energy which generates no pollution in its creation, and which emits only water when used, is ultimately going to win the contest. Probably not next week, but ultimately.


It's even easier to generate electricity straight for the car with solar than it is to go through the hydrogen middleman.   Straight EV is always going to be cleaner than hydrogen, because hydrogen is an extra unnecessary step that has associated inefficiencies.  I used to be pretty gung ho about hydrogen, but after taking some classes about it and looking closer into it, I realized that it has far more disadvantages than advantages compared to battery EVs.  Really the only "advantage" is that you can pull in to a filling station and refuel fairly rapidly.  But that is a dying paradigm.  Once people get a taste of EVs, they would never dream of going back to a system in which you regularly have to go fill up.
 
2013-05-12 10:58:46 PM  

born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).


Yeah, electric cars are the opposite of spontaneity, and that matters to a lot of people.

I am very interested, though, in a hybrid, when the day comes that my civic is ready to put to pasture. But since it's a 2006 with 125k miles on it, I think the tech will have more time to mature before I get to it.
 
2013-05-12 11:07:20 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Buy one or don't buy one, don't biatch about other people's personal decisions. Stop trying to use the government to force your ideology on everyone else


I agree.

But don't use my money (aka taxes) to pay for it
 
2013-05-12 11:37:56 PM  
Once I graduate and get a real job where I can't get away with commuting by scooter any more, I guess I'm going to have to give in and buy another car. I'm definitely going to be looking into electric, but as someone whose last two vehicles were a diesel VW and a scooter I doubt that I'm anywhere near a typical consumer.
 
2013-05-12 11:39:35 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Chevello: so I just need something for the 4 mile commute that won't get punted off the road by every stupid soccer mom in an Escalade or gardener with an overloaded trailer.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x566]


I'm still pissed that they changed their final production version from that badass design to something that looks like crap.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I sort of bring this up any time I pop into an EV thread, but the biggest problem with all-electric vehicles is that the majority of Americans don't have a garage with a convenient power outlet to plug into.  I, and many other people, live in an apartment complex with street-only, unreserved parking.  And I commute to an office with a parking garage with unreserved parking and no power outlets.  If someone can develop a power cell that I can carry into my apartment and charge overnight, or carry into the office and charge at my desk, I'll be first in line to buy an EV.
 
2013-05-12 11:52:05 PM  
Lot of talk about pure EV running out of electricity or having to sit around and wait for a charge. So why isn't the Volt more popular? Run till the batteries are dead and then switch over to gas to get you home. Is it the price?

Saw a Tesla today in Austin. I was heading up 183 doing about 70 in a 65 and he must have been doing about 80 when he went by. Pretty cool looking. Note to Tesla, you need to make the name stand out better in the chrome piece along the trunk. I couldn't read it but the guy had a license plate frame that said Tesla. Neat looking car for the fraction of time I got to gawk at it.
 
2013-05-12 11:52:47 PM  

dywed88: Electrify: Quick question: Why do so many Americans live so far away from work? Canada has plenty of sprawl as well, but even then a 30 mile commute each way is at the top end of our daily travel range, and many of those commutes are done by commuter train rather than car. Seriously, why the hell are people commuting 50, 80, even 100 miles each way? By this point you are well outside the metropolitan statistical area and approaching cross-state commuting!

I am assuming you aren't from Southern Ontario. Commuting from Kitchener or Barrie is quite common, Barrie in particular is known as a commuter city for Toronto. And people living further away aren't uncommon.


Actually I am in Toronto, Richmond Hill to be more specific. As I said, MOST people commute from about 30 miles out maximum, which forms the edges of the urban area (Hamilton, Newmarket, Oshawa). Yes there are people who commute from places further out, but many of those commutes are into Toronto's suburbs rather than into downtown. And those going into downtown are taking the GO train. Hell, even the edge cities I mentioned above, I'm willing to bet most of the travel is into another suburb or by train downtown.

Kitchener, Barrie, and even Oshawa are their own metropolitan areas, which suggests the majority of people in these areas are working within these areas rather than commuting into Toronto. I'm willing to bet that commutes between Oshawa to Brantford (100 miles) are exceedingly rare, and not just because of their local economies.
 
2013-05-12 11:58:21 PM  

ajgeek: News flash! HALF of America doesn't live in urbania. If you want this, put real money into battery technology.


NEWSFLASH: half of it does!

/we're not Communists; companies don't have to make products which are perfect for ALL the people.
 
2013-05-13 12:08:54 AM  

ghare: Electrify: Quick question: Why do so many Americans live so far away from work? Canada has plenty of sprawl as well, but even then a 30 mile commute each way is at the top end of our daily travel range, and many of those commutes are done by commuter train rather than car. Seriously, why the hell are people commuting 50, 80, even 100 miles each way? By this point you are well outside the metropolitan statistical area and approaching cross-state commuting!

Because rent is cheap out there, and their time is totally worthless, and their only car maintenance expense is gas.

/In other words, they can't do math.


yeah, i have a friend who moved over forty-five minutes away because of better schools. Keep in mind better is a difference between very good and great, not like some inner city hellhole or anything. He has to take home call, on occasion, but one of the stipulations is that you have to be thirty mins from the hospital to take the call from home. The result is that he actually has to stay overnight in the hospital.

I asked him if he ever though about how their kids would do in school if he got home 45 minutes earlier to help them with their homework or if he didnt spend so much time at the hospital he could otherwise spend at home. He had no answer, really, but I could tell he had never though about it.
 
2013-05-13 12:14:24 AM  

Hollie Maea: Notabunny: That's weird. Because the hydrogen filling stations Honda built in LA are solar powered. At this point though, efficiency isn't the most important criteria. Both are young technologies and have to overcome many hurdles before becoming mainstream, while at the same time competing against a hugely profitable industry which has been receiving huge government subsidies for a century. However, I believe a form of energy which generates no pollution in its creation, and which emits only water when used, is ultimately going to win the contest. Probably not next week, but ultimately.

It's even easier to generate electricity straight for the car with solar than it is to go through the hydrogen middleman.   Straight EV is always going to be cleaner than hydrogen, because hydrogen is an extra unnecessary step that has associated inefficiencies.  I used to be pretty gung ho about hydrogen, but after taking some classes about it and looking closer into it, I realized that it has far more disadvantages than advantages compared to battery EVs.  Really the only "advantage" is that you can pull in to a filling station and refuel fairly rapidly.  But that is a dying paradigm.  Once people get a taste of EVs, they would never dream of going back to a system in which you regularly have to go fill up.


We disagree, but I'd be happy driving either. My dad used to say, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
 
2013-05-13 12:32:36 AM  

rynthetyn: Once I graduate and get a real job where I can't get away with commuting by scooter any more, I guess I'm going to have to give in and buy another car.


Don't give up on your scooter just yet.  I had to relocate after graduation (my new job was nearly 100 miles from where I lived at the time), and I managed to find a decent, reasonably-priced apartment just two miles from work--trivial biking distance.

HotWingAgenda: If someone can develop a power cell that I can carry into my apartment and charge overnight, or carry into the office and charge at my desk, I'll be first in line to buy an EV.


Given that the battery arrays on electric cars typically weigh a minimum of 600 pounds, you'll be waiting a long time for that to happen.

Do the needful: Lot of talk about pure EV running out of electricity or having to sit around and wait for a charge. So why isn't the Volt more popular? Run till the batteries are dead and then switch over to gas to get you home. Is it the price?


Not so much the price as what you get for the price.  The Volt looks and feels pretty much like a run-of-the-mill Chevrolet vehicle, but the price point is higher than most Buicks, and the fuel efficiency isn't nearly as good as a Prius (therefore it's only a "green" vehicle if you rarely travel more than 35 miles).  The Model S is far more expensive, but it compares quite favorably to luxury cars in the same price range (Mercedes et al).
 
2013-05-13 01:00:07 AM  

Notabunny: We disagree, but I'd be happy driving either. My dad used to say, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."


Oh sure, I agree.  Hydrogen cars are WAY better than gas powered cars, in my opinion.  If they ended up being the future, I'd be fine with that.  And if battery electric vehicles weren't here I would agressively be advocating for them.  I do think that they have a lot more obstacles to overcome than battery electric vehicles, but there are certainly legitimate arguments to be made on their behalf.
 
2013-05-13 01:02:16 AM  

anfrind: Do the needful: Lot of talk about pure EV running out of electricity or having to sit around and wait for a charge. So why isn't the Volt more popular? Run till the batteries are dead and then switch over to gas to get you home. Is it the price?

Not so much the price as what you get for the price.  The Volt looks and feels pretty much like a run-of-the-mill Chevrolet vehicle, but the price point is higher than most Buicks, and the fuel efficiency isn't nearly as good as a Prius (therefore it's only a "green" vehicle if you rarely travel more than 35 miles).  The Model S is far more expensive, but it compares quite favorably to luxury cars in the same price range (Mercedes et al).


And that's where I am still confused. I get having creature comforts, but if you are truly in this to save either money, gas, or the environment (whichever you prefer) then wouldn't things like whale penis leather be less of a deciding factor? From what I have read, the Corvette has "run of the mill chevy interior" and you still have people shelling out big bucks for the muscle, not ergonomic ac vents.

It seems to quell the whole issue that it seems the majority of people who want to have an electric car but don't want to be stuck somewhere waiting for a charge have. The batteries run out, you let the gas take over and get you home or to work and charge back up. Maybe it's the weak 35 miles bit.

It's going to be a long time before I am shelling out money for a new anything so I can't even imagine what my next vehicle will be.
 
2013-05-13 01:05:26 AM  
Tesla Superchargers. Case closed.
 
2013-05-13 01:16:33 AM  
I would love to see 100% electric mandated, if only to kill Harley.
 
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