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(Phys Org2)   "Sitting around for eight hours waiting for your (Nissan) Leaf to charge up is not exactly a selling point. EVs have a sitting-on-your-ass factor that conventional cars do not"   (phys.org) divider line 180
    More: Fail, conventional car, J.D. Power, Center for Automotive Research, Rebecca Lindland, Fisker Automotive, plug-in electric car, Sergio Marchionne, government-backed loan  
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3195 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 May 2013 at 10:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-12 09:24:53 AM  
<i>Lindland said her view that Americans "just don't see how an electric car can fit into their lifestyle. We continue to be risk-averse in investing in <a data-cke-saved-href="http://phys.org/tags/new+technology/" rel="tag" class="textTag">new technology in our cars." </i>

Let's see. Infrastructure isn't in place, nearest dealer to me is over 500 miles away, significantly higher cost than a standard internal combustion, lower range, no mechanics, proprietary designs with no access to blueprints or designs... oh and an 8 hour charge!

News flash! HALF of America doesn't live in urbania. If you want this, put real money into battery technology.
 
2013-05-12 09:25:57 AM  
... Wow, preview. You failed me entirely.
 
2013-05-12 10:02:31 AM  
Get a hybrid car, then. If you spend 90% of the time within 50 miles of your house, you'll still save a ton of gas.
 
2013-05-12 10:11:06 AM  
The technology exists for a specific subset of people. If you don't fit in that subset, don't buy the car.
 
2013-05-12 10:12:13 AM  
I have a different take on the lifestyle aspect:

The type of person who would buy this car is probably pretty active, out and about and wants to use it to save money/energy.

The type of person who wouldn't buy it probably likes their 12 mpg truck just fine and spends the evening on the sofa watching Duck Dynasty when it could be out there charging.

So it's just a mismatch to begin with.
 
2013-05-12 10:48:53 AM  
Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

In my case I work from home. So I get to keep my gas guzzling mid life crisis car. But the wife has an 80 mile plus commute everyday. We are seriously considering electric for her next daily commuter. If it's something that has a 300 mile range she is good to go every single day. That still leaves us with in range of the beach and mountains. As long as I have electricity on the other side I am good. In fact the only trip we do that would probably not work is the 500 mile trip we take once in a while to see her parents.

In short, no I will not be sitting around watching the car charge. It would have a full charge everytime I leave the driveway. If my destination is not in range I'm taking the hotrod.
 
2013-05-12 11:04:58 AM  
I drive about one hour a day. Rest of the time Car sits pretty much next to a electric socket. So eight hours doesn't sound too bad. Too bad it runs on gasoline and seems to like it a lot.
 
2013-05-12 11:06:40 AM  

sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.


While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).
 
2013-05-12 11:12:27 AM  

sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

In my case I work from home. So I get to keep my gas guzzling mid life crisis car. But the wife has an 80 mile plus commute everyday. We are seriously considering electric for her next daily commuter. If it's something that has a 300 mile range she is good to go every single day. That still leaves us with in range of the beach and mountains. As long as I have electricity on the other side I am good. In fact the only trip we do that would probably not work is the 500 mile trip we take once in a while to see her parents.

In short, no I will not be sitting around watching the car charge. It would have a full charge everytime I leave the driveway. If my destination is not in range I'm taking the hotrod.


It is a BS argument:  my daily commute is about 30 miles combined.  That's a tenth of the Tesla's charge right there.  And if I'm heading out somewhere, I'm not topping 200 miles for that.  I would be a prime candidate for this if I wasn't moving closer to work in the next year or so.

Having electric cars would cut our oil intake significantly.  Big Oil is just freaking because now it's a distinct possibility.
 
2013-05-12 11:12:48 AM  
Pure electric is pretty awesome, right up until someone figures out how to compress hydrogen/gets a methanol fuel cell working/etc in an economical fashion.   After which the hydrogen fuel cell will pretty much destroy both gas and electric.  DMFCs are already starting to take off in some areas like forklifts.

The battery will always be a limiting factor in that you need to sit on your ass, swap batteries, or supercharge.  You can mitigate the pain in the ass with technology, but it still remains.  That said there are many electric cars on the road that mitigate those factors through a supercharger or having a backup gasoline engine, etc.

The big problem electric cars face is no one has really been able to get a mass market electric car out the door.  You either pay a premium with the MSRP for a long range vehicle or you pay a premium in your time due to limited range and recharge needs.  Which is fine, but it limits the electric vehicle to being a vehicle sought after by people whose values align with the product, just like how performance nuts only buy Corvettes, Mustangs, Challengers, etc.  The big question of course is will we see such a car or will fuel cells mature first.
 
2013-05-12 11:12:48 AM  

born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).


In the blackout of 2003 the power outage shut down gas stations (around here anyway), so either way, you'd be screwed.  I know one guy that had to run his brand new Honda Civic on fuel injector cleaner to limp home.
 
2013-05-12 11:13:06 AM  

sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

In my case I work from home. So I get to keep my gas guzzling mid life crisis car. But the wife has an 80 mile plus commute everyday. We are seriously considering electric for her next daily commuter. If it's something that has a 300 mile range she is good to go every single day. That still leaves us with in range of the beach and mountains. As long as I have electricity on the other side I am good. In fact the only trip we do that would probably not work is the 500 mile trip we take once in a while to see her parents.

In short, no I will not be sitting around watching the car charge. It would have a full charge everytime I leave the driveway. If my destination is not in range I'm taking the hotrod.




Not that I'm going to tell you how to live your life,but if you work from home and wife has an 80-mile commute, isn't it the more environmentally friendly thing to move closer to where she works?
 
2013-05-12 11:13:52 AM  
I'll take it.

8 hours? So, I get home at night, maybe pop out again, then at 11pm, it's on charge, so by 7am, it's fully charged. I'll live with that.

Now, I know there's the whole "what about driving 500 miles?" Fine. I'll hire a car. Not enough charge occassionally? Fine, I'll pay for a cab those days.

The main downside at the moment is the damn cost of electric cars. Too expensive.
 
2013-05-12 11:16:39 AM  

born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).


You really think our power system is so unreliable that you would have an issue like that? Something like an ice storm or hurricane would give you advance warning. You would have time to make sure its fully charged.
 
2013-05-12 11:18:20 AM  
Nissan LEAF charge times, from zero:

110v = 21 hours
220v = 4 hours
480v = 25 minutes (to 80%)

With those options, here's how I use the charge stations near me: 110v= charging at home, overnight (typically I always have a 50% charge after driving home. With commuting 26 miles each way, it takes roughly 9 hours to recharge - which is perfect for charging at home and at work. 220v = charging while going on longer trips around town, especially if I'm going to see a movie at night. 480v = best while going on 100+ mile trips along the freeways.

I've gotten close to taking my car to zero, but haven't had any issues yet. I'm about to rollover 5,000 miles since buying it in January.
 
2013-05-12 11:20:55 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The technology exists for a specific subset of people. If you don't fit in that subset, don't buy the car.


It seems like many people look at if from the other side: If it doesn't work for EVERYONE, don't sell it.

Can I get a full size car with a 60 mile range for a reasonable price yet? We already have the minivan for hauling the kids and vacations, and I'm in the process of buying a hotrod, so I just need something for the 4 mile commute that won't get punted off the road by every stupid soccer mom in an Escalade or gardener with an overloaded trailer.
 
2013-05-12 11:21:43 AM  

pivazena: Not that I'm going to tell you how to live your life,but if you work from home and wife has an 80-mile commute, isn't it the more environmentally friendly thing to move closer to where she works?


yeah yeah yeah, we are house hunting closer to her work.
 
2013-05-12 11:21:58 AM  
At the same time, the analyst said, gasoline-powered cars "are improving enough to meet the needs of the consumer," without the price tag of electric cars.

This right here. I just bought a 2011 Toyota Corolla that routinely gets 35 MPG with snow tires on it. It was much, much, cheaper than the Prius we bought brand-new a few years back, and the mileage is comparable. (The Prius averaged around 45 - most of my driving is on the highway in a mountainous area.)
 
2013-05-12 11:23:23 AM  
I think many here will agree that no matter what you think of EV vs regular vehicle I think the real problem is how far a lot of people have to drive to and from work every day and that mistakes were made along the way with the development of suburbia.
 
2013-05-12 11:24:50 AM  

MrSteve007: Nissan LEAF charge times, from zero:

110v = 21 hours
220v = 4 hours
480v = 25 minutes (to 80%)

With those options, here's how I use the charge stations near me: 110v= charging at home, overnight (typically I always have a 50% charge after driving home. With commuting 26 miles each way, it takes roughly 9 hours to recharge - which is perfect for charging at home and at work. 220v = charging while going on longer trips around town, especially if I'm going to see a movie at night. 480v = best while going on 100+ mile trips along the freeways.

I've gotten close to taking my car to zero, but haven't had any issues yet. I'm about to rollover 5,000 miles since buying it in January.


Any plans to get a 220v plug available for it at home?
 
2013-05-12 11:25:45 AM  

sammyk: born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).

You really think our power system is so unreliable that you would have an issue like that? Something like an ice storm or hurricane would give you advance warning. You would have time to make sure its fully charged.


You weren't affected by the blackout of 2003 I guess.  No warning, the lights just went off and stayed off for several days (depending on where you lived).  Gas cars didn't fare any better though when the power to pumps went out.

That being said, it's easy enough to put solar panels up to charge up an EV if you're worried about the inevitable zombie apocalypse.  It's pretty hard to set up a oil well and refinery in your backyard without the neighbours complaining.
 
2013-05-12 11:26:08 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The technology exists for a specific subset of people. If you don't fit in that subset, don't buy the car.


The free market at work, in other words.
 
2013-05-12 11:33:46 AM  

sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

In my case I work from home. So I get to keep my gas guzzling mid life crisis car. But the wife has an 80 mile plus commute everyday. We are seriously considering electric for her next daily commuter. If it's something that has a 300 mile range she is good to go every single day. That still leaves us with in range of the beach and mountains. As long as I have electricity on the other side I am good. In fact the only trip we do that would probably not work is the 500 mile trip we take once in a while to see her parents.

In short, no I will not be sitting around watching the car charge. It would have a full charge everytime I leave the driveway. If my destination is not in range I'm taking the hotrod.


Pretty much what I did, I work from home and have a gas guzzling convertible, my soon to be wife has a plug-in hybid for her 50 mile daily commute, and we have a minivan for long trips, hauling etc.  We looked at the Leaf when buying her car, but I found it uncomfortable and she did not like how it drove.
 
2013-05-12 11:35:40 AM  

sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.


You're using Tesla's 300-mile range as your benchmark.  There's nothing wring with that but the Model S needs the 85kWh battery pack to achieve that so the base price is $72,400 before adding options and tax breaks.  That's a lot of cash to lay out for a daily commuter, even with tax breaks.
 
2013-05-12 11:36:42 AM  
All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.
 
2013-05-12 11:38:15 AM  
Eight hours from the comfort of my own home when I'm not planning to leave anyway, versus having to go out of my way to drive to a gas station?  I'll take the eight hours.

This is like complaining about a phone with a rechargeable battery, instead of just buying disposable batteries and burning through them at your "convenience".
 
2013-05-12 11:45:14 AM  

dobro: All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.


The Nissan Leaf battery pack weighs 660lbs.  The Tesla S would likely run about 150lbs more than that based on the type of batteries they use.  You're not going to be swapping them out without a forklift and other heavy equipment.
 
2013-05-12 11:46:55 AM  

dobro: All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.


Scaling aside,that's not as easy as you'd think. Those batteries are several thousand apiece, not many gas stations would be willing to put that kind of money up front for someone's convenience.

480V is a reasonable option, but not many homes have that option.
 
2013-05-12 11:53:11 AM  

arcas: sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

You're using Tesla's 300-mile range as your benchmark.  There's nothing wring with that but the Model S needs the 85kWh battery pack to achieve that so the base price is $72,400 before adding options and tax breaks.  That's a lot of cash to lay out for a daily commuter, even with tax breaks.


A Model S is probably a really bad example for this thread. It's built to compete with the luxury sedans. The leaf is out there for the poors people on a limited budget.
 
2013-05-12 11:55:31 AM  

ajgeek: Those batteries are several thousand apiece, not many gas stations would be willing to put that kind of money up front for someone's convenience.


Also, then suddenly you have a security problem. Think a padlock will keep the tweakers out of the battery cage? Padlocks don't keep anyone serious out of anything, but at least propane tanks aren't so valuable. So you'd need a safe, and ... yeah, fark it.
 
2013-05-12 12:09:34 PM  
I tried to get into a Smart. I almost broke the steering wheel when I closed the door and wedged my knee.

I can only imagine what the other "efficient" cars are like. I am a titan, and not a Nissan titan. I am too large for your world.
 
2013-05-12 12:09:36 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: but at least propane tanks aren't so valuable


You don't live in area where people cook a lot of meth do you?
 
2013-05-12 12:24:15 PM  

mrlewish: I think many here will agree that no matter what you think of EV vs regular vehicle I think the real problem is how far a lot of people have to drive to and from work every day and that mistakes were made along the way with the development of suburbia.


THIS.

( Although older generations would consider such an opinion un-American..)
 
2013-05-12 12:25:04 PM  

MrSteve007: Nissan LEAF charge times, from zero:

110v = 21 hours
220v = 4 hours
480v = 25 minutes (to 80%)

With those options, here's how I use the charge stations near me: 110v= charging at home, overnight (typically I always have a 50% charge after driving home. With commuting 26 miles each way, it takes roughly 9 hours to recharge - which is perfect for charging at home and at work. 220v = charging while going on longer trips around town, especially if I'm going to see a movie at night. 480v = best while going on 100+ mile trips along the freeways.

I've gotten close to taking my car to zero, but haven't had any issues yet. I'm about to rollover 5,000 miles since buying it in January.


are you stealing power from your job
 
2013-05-12 12:37:15 PM  

haywatchthis: are you stealing power from your job


Many companies are providing EV charging stations free for employees.
 
2013-05-12 12:38:17 PM  

sammyk: Something like an ice storm or hurricane would give you advance warning. You would have time to make sure its fully charged.


You'd think so, but we had a derecho wind storm hit West Virginia in June 2012, power was out here for 10 days, some parts of the state even longer. If we'd had to rely on a car that needed charged, we would have been screwed. I have no problems with an electric vehicle, but it'll only ever be an addition, not a replacement for the family car unless you live somewhere uniquely suited to deal with EV quirks.
 
2013-05-12 12:42:57 PM  

Tom_Slick: Fuggin Bizzy: but at least propane tanks aren't so valuable

You don't live in area where people cook a lot of meth do you?


No, I am, but get this - I don't cook meth myself. Nor do I buy or sell propane, so I'm really not involved with propane in any way. Every gas station has a cage full of propane tanks, though, so the risk of theft must be acceptably low for it to be such a common item.

Still, propane tanks are nowhere near as valuable as battery packs for cars.
 
2013-05-12 12:43:57 PM  
Living in northern Canada, many businesses have plugs available so that you can use a block heater in the winter. Charging at work instead of at home would be a nice benefit.
Thing is, we also deal with lots of snow and ice. I'm not sure how the cold weather would affect range, but I do know that having an adequate winter vehicle is a major necessity. All of the electric vehicles are typically low clearance and non four wheel drive.
I wonder if a small pickup (think Ranger or Tacoma) would be successful. You've got more room for batteries, and the high torque would be nice as well.
 
2013-05-12 12:45:13 PM  

mrlewish: I think many here will agree that no matter what you think of EV vs regular vehicle I think the real problem is how far a lot of people have to drive to and from work every day and that mistakes were made along the way with the development of suburbia.



That's funny because statistically in most urban centers jobs are moving out to the burbs, thus negating this issue for many.  However being one of the lucky few going the other way that's exactly why I would want an EV\Hybrid.  I have a fairly regular and easy to predict schedule and distance to drive.
 
2013-05-12 12:48:25 PM  

sammyk: Everytime I hear some car 'expert' complain about the charge times for electrics I have to wonder if it isn't being written at Exxon HQ. It's just a BS argument and everyone should know better.

The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

In my case I work from home. So I get to keep my gas guzzling mid life crisis car. But the wife has an 80 mile plus commute everyday. We are seriously considering electric for her next daily commuter. If it's something that has a 300 mile range she is good to go every single day. That still leaves us with in range of the beach and mountains. As long as I have electricity on the other side I am good. In fact the only trip we do that would probably not work is the 500 mile trip we take once in a while to see her parents.

In short, no I will not be sitting around watching the car charge. It would have a full charge everytime I leave the driveway. If my destination is not in range I'm taking the hotrod.


Unfortunately, the Tesla Model S is $62,000.
 
2013-05-12 12:56:57 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: At the same time, the analyst said, gasoline-powered cars "are improving enough to meet the needs of the consumer," without the price tag of electric cars.

This right here. I just bought a 2011 Toyota Corolla that routinely gets 35 MPG with snow tires on it. It was much, much, cheaper than the Prius we bought brand-new a few years back, and the mileage is comparable. (The Prius averaged around 45 - most of my driving is on the highway in a mountainous area.)


That said, why can't there be both?  I'm getting tired of people who think we just need one solution.  Why not have a variety of them?  That will work as well.

I'm a bit concerned about our national attitude.  We've gone from 'let'shiat the moon in X years' to 'but this will mean we have to update our power infrastructure (which needs to be done anyway), and it's sooooo haaaard.'  What the fark happened to Americans where we boast about paying for our shiat yet don't?
 
2013-05-12 01:00:00 PM  
I'd really like a cng civic. 250 mile range and less than 30k. not as green as an electric, but since we are burning the stuff off at the wellhead, might as well use it...

The problem is my 12 year old 4 cylinder sedan is paid for, only needs liability insurance and doesn't seem to want to die.

I'd like to see more cng filling stations, though there is one in the area.
 
2013-05-12 01:06:05 PM  

dobro: All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.


It is a different paradigm. With an EV, if you are "pulling into a station" more than twice a year, you're doing it wrong. Even with a relatively limited range, you would be surprised how having a full charge every morning all but eliminates the need to ever stop to charge when you are out and about.  When I bought my EV I expected to be stopping at public charging stations once a month or so. 6500 miles later, I have had to use one exactly once. And it was no big deal because I had stuff to do while it charged. And I wouldn't have ever needed one so far if I bothered to install a level 2 charger at home.  And it's not like I have a Model S.  My car has a range of 80-100 miles.

People who don't have EVs think about every time they have to stop for gas and then imagine how much it would suck if it took  several hours. But that isn't how it works. As longer ranges from 200-300 miles become more common in the next 2 or 3 years, the only time it will be necessary for anyone to charge on the go will b during cross country trips. And battery swap stations won't be necessary. If we really are going to build a bunch of new infrastructure, make chargers that can handle the capabilities of the batteries, which is 3C--fast enough to charge to 80 percent in about 15 minutes.

The only people who were supporting battery swap (Renault) have already realized that it is an unnecessary and undesirable non starter.
 
2013-05-12 01:09:24 PM  

Guntram Shatterhand: We've gone from 'let'shiat the moon in X years'


Oh, don't worry. We'll shiat the moon soon enough. We've already shiatted Mt. Everest, the oceans, etc. Just a matter of time.

/LOLfilter
 
2013-05-12 01:23:22 PM  

born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).


Of course, you are in the exact same situation if an you find yourself with a car low on gas and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).
 
2013-05-12 01:30:14 PM  

dobro: All they need is interchangeable battery packs. Like the Blue Rhino propane tanks. Pull into a station and swap the battery pack. Faster than pumping gas.


Here's a picture of the Tesla Model S platform:
static.ddmcdn.com

Basically, everything you see that isn't fenders or directly connected to wheels is part of the battery array.  There's no way that you could economically swap the batteries on that while taking a road trip.

What you could do, however, is stop at a supercharger station for 30-60 minutes and leave your car to fully recharge while you get something to eat at a nearby diner.  The battery lasts long enough that by the time I'd need to recharge it (4-5 hours for the 85kWh model), I know I'd need to recharge myself as well.
 
2013-05-12 01:33:48 PM  
The blackout argument ignores the fact that electrics and hybrids can also be set up to serve as home back-up generators/ storage cells to keep the fridge cold a few days, and enough juice for some lights and a TV or computer.
 
2013-05-12 01:37:07 PM  
If you're sitting on your ass at work for 8 hours a day, might as well use that time to let it charge.
 
2013-05-12 01:40:49 PM  

dywed88: born_yesterday: sammyk: The sweet spot for electric cars is the daily commuter. The Tesla model s has a 300 mile range. That is enough for the longest daily commute most could imagine with power to spare. Plug it in when you get home and its fully charged in the morning. Most families have more than one car as well. So you have a car that runs on gas for the long trips. Or rent one.

While I fully support the development of this technology, I would hate to find myself with a car low on charge and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).

Of course, you are in the exact same situation if an you find yourself with a car low on gas and in the middle of an emergency that shuts down the power grid (especially for an extended period).


At least for me, with ample PV panels and battery backup at home and work, when there's another oil embargo, rapid increases in gasoline costs or prolonged power outages (earthquake, large storm, etc.), I'll still be zooming around, recharging from home and work, and watching everyone else suffer with being trapped with transportation that's entirely reliant on international shipping and corporations to supply it.
 
2013-05-12 01:44:05 PM  
Pure EVs won't make it here in most of Florida. We have this thing called Hurricane Season every year. We don't get bad ones every year, but when we do, you can't be sitting on your ass for 8 hours waiting for the car to charge just to drive 200 miles and then wait for ANOTHER 8 hours to recharge. And that's only if the power is still on. Even down in the Keys, you can fill up a standard car and toss a couple 5 gallon containers of gas in the back and be able to hit Georgia or South Carolina (depending on vehicle). You can bring 'extra charge' with you. For extended power outages, gas pumps (some) can be run from generator or, if need be, hand pump. Good luck recharging a dead EV car with a portable generator while a storm with 125 MPH winds approaches. Even having one of each doesn't sound so good if you are stuck leaving the $70k car behind to get eaten by the storm.

/yeah, yeah, I know... Florida People Problems
 
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