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(Chron)   Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg says that while she supports Roe vs. Wade, she feels the ruling by her predecessors on the court was too sweeping and gave abortion opponents a symbol to target   (chron.com) divider line 219
    More: Interesting, Ginsberg, University of Chicago Law School, abortions, judicial restraint, abortion opponents, U.S. Supreme Court, same-sex marriages  
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1651 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2013 at 5:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-12 02:34:32 PM

Doom MD: You don't find it


I find it stupid that you're trolling this thread. Do you honestly think that annoying people on the internet is an effective way to advance your cause?
 
2013-05-12 02:35:40 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: Oh, come now, how often do people make fun of "pro-life" people for being pro-death-penalty? Either attacking a moniker for inconsistencies across issues is fair game or it isn't.

They're not attacking the "moniker" - pro-life people actually do make the claim that "life", in a generic sense, is sacred. You can be satisfied with their rationalizations for believing that while supporting the death penalty, perhaps, but it's nothing remotely like "Why come you want abortions to be legal but not guns?"


And the "choice" part in pro-choice isn't generalized? Why "anti-choice" rather than "anti-abortion" - which is clearly the more precise term. People use "anti-choice" because of its emotional appeal, and that appeal has entirely to do with the general implication.
 
2013-05-12 02:36:01 PM

Biological Ali: Doom MD: You don't find it

I find it stupid that you're trolling this thread. Do you honestly think that annoying people on the internet is an effective way to advance your cause?


I'm sorry your cognitive dissonance is getting your panties in a twist and ruining your Mother's Day, Shirley. Nevertheless, I am totally expecting to turn this nation around in this fark thread so let me operate.
 
2013-05-12 02:37:29 PM

Doom MD: Biological Ali: vygramul: Oh, come now, how often do people make fun of "pro-life" people for being pro-death-penalty? Either attacking a moniker for inconsistencies across issues is fair game or it isn't.

They're not attacking the "moniker" - pro-life people actually do make the claim that "life", in a generic sense, is sacred. You can be satisfied with their rationalizations for believing that while supporting the death penalty, perhaps, but it's nothing remotely like "Why come you want abortions to be legal but not guns?"

You don't find it inconsistent that some people are more comfortable with allowing people to terminate unborn children rather than use a firearm to kill someone trying to do them or their family active harm?


Practicality. Making abortions illegal leads to more deaths; making guns illegal leads to fewer.
 
2013-05-12 02:42:47 PM

vygramul: And the "choice" part in pro-choice isn't generalized?


What? Of course not. Nobody's going around claiming "choice" in and of itself to be something sacred. Everybody knows which one specific choice is being referred to here, except perhaps somebody immigrating to the US from some non-English speaking country who's learning all of this for the first time.
 Doom MD


You're well within your rights spending the rest of your day having strangers on the internet believe you're some kind of idiot. Obviously I can't stop you if you've got your heart set on it.
 
2013-05-12 02:46:21 PM

austerity101: Doom MD: Biological Ali: vygramul: Oh, come now, how often do people make fun of "pro-life" people for being pro-death-penalty? Either attacking a moniker for inconsistencies across issues is fair game or it isn't.

They're not attacking the "moniker" - pro-life people actually do make the claim that "life", in a generic sense, is sacred. You can be satisfied with their rationalizations for believing that while supporting the death penalty, perhaps, but it's nothing remotely like "Why come you want abortions to be legal but not guns?"

You don't find it inconsistent that some people are more comfortable with allowing people to terminate unborn children rather than use a firearm to kill someone trying to do them or their family active harm?

Practicality. Making abortions illegal leads to more deaths; making guns illegal leads to fewer.


According to the CDC, there have been 50 million abortions in the United States since 1973. Show me how gun violence has come even close to approaching this. Furthermore, relaxation of gun laws and the rise of concealed carry has occurred in a period where gun crime has decreased to 1950s levels.

You will retort I'm discounting the mother's safety, which is obviously improved with legalized abortion. I will retort by pointing out that a gun is a tool, not an act, and banning a simple tool is ridiculous. Furthermore, you're discounting lives saved from defensive gun uses and the positive gains from firearms being used for food acquisition and as an active physical hobby that gets people outdoors.

People should have a right with what to do with their bodies. Be it defending it or their reproductive rights.
 
2013-05-12 02:52:18 PM
 i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-12 02:54:45 PM
Dear Justice Ginsburg:

You will never be Chief Justice. So please stop campaigning for it. It's unseemly, probably unconstitutional, certainly unethical and more appropriate for the conservative members of the court.
 
2013-05-12 02:55:11 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: [i.imgur.com image 419x243]


This is so appropriate given your fark handle.

/citizenkane.gif
 
2013-05-12 03:00:55 PM

Doom MD: austerity101: Doom MD: Biological Ali: vygramul: Oh, come now, how often do people make fun of "pro-life" people for being pro-death-penalty? Either attacking a moniker for inconsistencies across issues is fair game or it isn't.

They're not attacking the "moniker" - pro-life people actually do make the claim that "life", in a generic sense, is sacred. You can be satisfied with their rationalizations for believing that while supporting the death penalty, perhaps, but it's nothing remotely like "Why come you want abortions to be legal but not guns?"

You don't find it inconsistent that some people are more comfortable with allowing people to terminate unborn children rather than use a firearm to kill someone trying to do them or their family active harm?

Practicality. Making abortions illegal leads to more deaths; making guns illegal leads to fewer.

According to the CDC, there have been 50 million abortions in the United States since 1973. Show me how gun violence has come even close to approaching this. Furthermore, relaxation of gun laws and the rise of concealed carry has occurred in a period where gun crime has decreased to 1950s levels.

You will retort I'm discounting the mother's safety, which is obviously improved with legalized abortion. I will retort by pointing out that a gun is a tool, not an act, and banning a simple tool is ridiculous. Furthermore, you're discounting lives saved from defensive gun uses and the positive gains from firearms being used for food acquisition and as an active physical hobby that gets people outdoors.

People should have a right with what to do with their bodies. Be it defending it or their reproductive rights.


That was even better than I expected. Thanks.
 
2013-05-12 03:29:33 PM
In any civil rights case that rules in favour of the victim is  "giving opponents something to target" almost by definition. That is how oppression and prejudice work.
 
2013-05-12 03:37:50 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: And the "choice" part in pro-choice isn't generalized?

What? Of course not. Nobody's going around claiming "choice" in and of itself to be something sacred. Everybody knows which one specific choice is being referred to here, except perhaps somebody immigrating to the US from some non-English speaking country who's learning all of this for the first time.


Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?
 
2013-05-12 04:07:22 PM
The states should decide their own abortion laws. Although, you do need a federal limitation such a partial birth abortion or else the Democrat states will be gosnelling their children up until their teen years. One of the Progressives, I think it was Boxer, recently said they should be able to choose death for the baby until it leaves the hospital.
 
2013-05-12 04:10:19 PM

Noam Chimpsky: The states should decide their own abortion laws. Although, you do need a federal limitation such a partial birth abortion or else the Democrat states will be gosnelling their children up until their teen years. One of the Progressives, I think it was Boxer, recently said they should be able to choose death for the baby until it leaves the hospital.


i306.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-12 04:21:32 PM
img3.joyreactor.com
 
2013-05-12 04:28:16 PM

vygramul: Biological Ali: vygramul: And the "choice" part in pro-choice isn't generalized?

What? Of course not. Nobody's going around claiming "choice" in and of itself to be something sacred. Everybody knows which one specific choice is being referred to here, except perhaps somebody immigrating to the US from some non-English speaking country who's learning all of this for the first time.

Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?


I like that one when I'm not going with "forced birthers".
 
2013-05-12 04:50:20 PM

vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?


Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.
 
2013-05-12 04:55:38 PM

Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.


Men shouldn't have to pay child support, it was the woman's choice to have the kid.
 
2013-05-12 05:01:35 PM

Jegred2: Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support, it was the woman's choice to have the kid.


Oh you poor, poor man.  Life is so unfair to you.
 
2013-05-12 05:03:59 PM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: What's missing from these scholarly arguments ?
I feel we have overlooked something .

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 164x120]

//2001 Starchild so as not to upset the delicate.

When a fetus can stand on its own two feet and offer an opinion in its own words, I'll give it consideration.  Until then, it's just a part of my body to do with as I will.  Deal with it.

Keep that crazy biatch away from me.
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 233x216]


What does Stephen Hawking have to do with this?

img.thesun.co.uk
 
2013-05-12 05:06:52 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I don't like abortion any more than I like appendectomies. They're a neutral medical procedure. Logically if the fetus isn't a human life, then you shouldn't care if a woman has one abortion or a hundred. I wouldn't really care if a person had one melanoma removed or a hundred either.

It's either human life or it's not. You can't say "Yeah this fetus has a bit of human life, but not enough to outweigh the rights of the mother over her own body, so she can kill it if she wants."


When does it transition from a little bunch of cells to a human?

Some politicians actually want to say it's when the guy blows his load, as seen by the stance on abortion even in terms of rape.

I'm all for erring on the side of caution, but if we're going to take that much care in saving a "human life" shouldn't we care about it after it's born?
 
2013-05-12 05:07:29 PM

Jegred2: Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support, it was the woman's choice to have the kid.


Decision the man had: Decision to insert his penis, unprotected, into a woman's vagina.
Second Decision the Man had: Decision to thrust himself vigorously, for the four or five seconds it takes YOU to orgasm.
Third Decision the man had: To ejactulate into an unprotected woman's vagina.

So go cry me a river, you poor, persecuted little man.
 
2013-05-12 05:08:38 PM
I'm sure this is the thread where we will settle all controversies on abortion once and for all.
 
2013-05-12 05:12:11 PM
Milo Minderbinder:  Who protests the Civil Rights Act these days, outside of Alabama?

redalertpolitics.com
 
2013-05-12 05:17:59 PM

Alphax: I don't think the people demanding control over women's bodies are going to relent soon.


NO NO NO, it has nothing to do with controlling women, it's purely about protecting the innocent child which should be obvious since once that child is born they are willing to pay any amount of taxes to make sure that child grows up healthy and educated, right?
 
2013-05-12 05:19:27 PM

hardinparamedic: Jegred2: Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support, it was the woman's choice to have the kid.

Decision the man had: Decision to insert his penis, unprotected, into a woman's vagina.
Second Decision the Man had: Decision to thrust himself vigorously, for the four or five seconds it takes YOU to orgasm.
Third Decision the man had: To ejactulate into an unprotected woman's vagina.

So go cry me a river, you poor, persecuted little man.


You guys are currently saying that fathers have no right to say squat about what a woman does with his child. I don't think men should have to pay child support if they have no say in whether or not their child gets to live.
Your 3 decision thing makes it appear as if you think women don't have anything to do with the act of sex.
 
2013-05-12 05:27:25 PM

Jegred2: You guys are currently saying that fathers have no right to say squat about what a woman does with his child.


Oh, but that's the thing. You're pretending that fathers don't have any say. They do. After the fetus is out of the woman's body. Because, at that point, the neonate no longer has the ability to cause the woman to be psychologically destroyed from a forced abortion, or die from a complication. You are more than welcome after the fact to keep your name off the birth certificate, and then go to court to either get custody, or prove you're not the baby daddy.

Don't want to pay child support? Start by not signing that certificate.

Jegred2: I don't think men should have to pay child support if they have no say in whether or not their child gets to live.


And that makes you a waste of humanity if you think you should be able to fark anything you want, without consequences, and then force that person to undergo a procedure which - if non-consensual - can be horrifically scarring on the psyche of a woman.

Jegred2: Your 3 decision thing makes it appear as if you think women don't have anything to do with the act of sex.


And you are saying that, as a man, you are too weak and easily manipulated to spend two seconds and fifty cents putting a piece of plastic on your dick. That is insulting to every other man out there.
 
2013-05-12 05:40:55 PM

hardinparamedic: Jegred2: You guys are currently saying that fathers have no right to say squat about what a woman does with his child.

Oh, but that's the thing. You're pretending that fathers don't have any say. They do. After the fetus is out of the woman's body. Because, at that point, the neonate no longer has the ability to cause the woman to be psychologically destroyed from a forced abortion, or die from a complication. You are more than welcome after the fact to keep your name off the birth certificate, and then go to court to either get custody, or prove you're not the baby daddy.

Don't want to pay child support? Start by not signing that certificate.

Jegred2: I don't think men should have to pay child support if they have no say in whether or not their child gets to live.

And that makes you a waste of humanity if you think you should be able to fark anything you want, without consequences, and then force that person to undergo a procedure which - if non-consensual - can be horrifically scarring on the psyche of a woman.

Jegred2: Your 3 decision thing makes it appear as if you think women don't have anything to do with the act of sex.

And you are saying that, as a man, you are too weak and easily manipulated to spend two seconds and fifty cents putting a piece of plastic on your dick. That is insulting to every other man out there.


You are the one advocating consequence free sex with anything for women, and I never said anything about rape. Also, women should be smart enough to either use birth control, or verify that the man is wearing a condom before they have sex. You are codling women with your attitude.

BTW, I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.

There is no need for you to get nasty and emotional because you don't agree with what I say. Act like a civilized adult.
 
2013-05-12 05:43:22 PM

vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?


I'm not the one who decided to go with something stupid like "pro-life". You'll have to take it up with them.
 
2013-05-12 05:49:21 PM

ColdFusion: What does Stephen Hawking have to do with this?

[img.thesun.co.uk image 380x574]


I guess Hawking's parents might have aborted him if they were informed of the genetic risk their foetus was carrying. You know, the same way math geniuses in general are targets for a sort of genocide because of the social stigma around autism.
 
2013-05-12 06:29:36 PM

Etchy333: I'm sure this is the thread where we will settle all controversies on abortion once and for all.


I think it's possible. My question is how much do you tip the abortion doc?
 
2013-05-12 06:38:08 PM

Delawheredad: He's completely legal, was state inspected


why the fark do people feel the need to just straight up lie about stuff like this
 
2013-05-12 06:50:01 PM

Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.


Neither side is pure, for one thing. Most of the pro-abortion crowd are ok with limiting late-term abortions to only those cases where medially necessary. I guess everyone hates choice.
 
2013-05-12 06:51:28 PM

hardinparamedic: Jegred2: Graffito: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

Because most of the anti-choice crowd are OK with abortion in certain circumstances - rape, the life of the mother, their daughter's pregnancy, etc.  It's the idea of women in general having the choice that gets their knickers in a twist.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support, it was the woman's choice to have the kid.

Decision the man had: Decision to insert his penis, unprotected, into a woman's vagina.
Second Decision the Man had: Decision to thrust himself vigorously, for the four or five seconds it takes YOU to orgasm.
Third Decision the man had: To ejactulate into an unprotected woman's vagina.

So go cry me a river, you poor, persecuted little man.


You're never going to be able to create a symmetrical decision tree for men and women when it comes to child-bearing.
 
2013-05-12 06:52:22 PM

djkutch: Etchy333: I'm sure this is the thread where we will settle all controversies on abortion once and for all.

I think it's possible. My question is how much do you tip the abortion doc?


media.zenfs.com
 
2013-05-12 06:53:49 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

I'm not the one who decided to go with something stupid like "pro-life". You'll have to take it up with them.


I'm not asking them why they call themselves pro-life rather than anti-abortion. I'm not asking you why you don't call them pro-life. I'm asking you why you don't call them anti-abortion. Your dodging the question suggests you recognize the ground upon which you stand and realize you're not entirely happy with it.
 
2013-05-12 06:56:49 PM

Etchy333: I'm sure this is the thread where we will settle all controversies on abortion once and for all.


It comes down to just one question: when does human life start? Some people believe it's at conception. Others believe it's at birth. Some people start feeling uncomfortable somewhere halfway through the process. Answer that fundamental question to everyone's satisfaction, and the debate is over.
 
2013-05-12 06:57:32 PM

Jegred2: You are the one advocating consequence free sex with anything for women


No, I'm not. Raising a child is hardly consequence free. Child support is not about what is best for the woman, at any rate It's about what is best for the child, namely not making him a ward of the state and a burden on society as a whole.

Jegred2: and I never said anything about rape.


No, you just implied a man is too stupid to take control of his own ability to procreate.

Jegred2: Also, women should be smart enough to either use birth control, or verify that the man is wearing a condom before they have sex


Yeah, they should. And a man should be smart enough to know that hormonal contraception can fail, or someone could be lying to him. If he's so desperate that he can't keep it in his damn pants, it's not a gigantic leap to put a condom on.

Jegred2: You are codling women with your attitude.


No, I'm not. It takes 46 chromosomes to make a baby. You're donating 23 of them. You have control over that 23, and keeping it away from that egg. Stop pretending to be the oppressed one.

Jegred2: BTW, I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.


Which is irrelevant to the discussion. What was addressed was your parroting of Men's Rights Activist talking points and your "strawman feminist" claims about rape apologetics and blaming a victim for their sexual assault. Irregardless, you should know better than to force your opinion onto the rights of others.

A woman has a right to self-determination for what happens in her own body. Until that point that it is out and a neonate, you have no say and rightfully so.

Jegred2: There is no need for you to get nasty and emotional because you don't agree with what I say. Act like a civilized adult.


I am acting like a civilized adult, you delicate little flower. Your talking points are blatantly offensive to me as a man and as an adult, namely inferring that I am too weak to control my own penis, and that I am easily manipulated by a woman into ejactulating inside of her unprotected vagina, and that somehow her getting pregnant is all her fault.

I despise Men's Rights cowards, and their idea of "manliness" of being able to fark anything they want without consequences, and abandoning what they create with their moment of stupidity and consensual choice.

But no, keep pretending that because I didn't use honey to catch the flies, my point is invalid.
 
2013-05-12 06:59:20 PM

vygramul: Most of the pro-abortion crowd are ok with limiting late-term abortions to only those cases where medially necessary. I guess everyone hates choice.


The problem is that late-term abortion occurs at the point where there is a medically viable, and self-aware fetus capable of feeling pain and sensation of the world around him, while most normal abortions occur before the neurological system is even developed to the point of mounting a cursory response to pain, and the fetus is not capable of survival outside of the womb.
 
2013-05-12 07:02:55 PM

hardinparamedic: vygramul: Most of the pro-abortion crowd are ok with limiting late-term abortions to only those cases where medially necessary. I guess everyone hates choice.

The problem is that late-term abortion occurs at the point where there is a medically viable, and self-aware fetus capable of feeling pain and sensation of the world around him, while most normal abortions occur before the neurological system is even developed to the point of mounting a cursory response to pain, and the fetus is not capable of survival outside of the womb.


Do you endorse a ban on late-term abortions except in the case of the life of the mother?
 
2013-05-12 07:28:55 PM

hardinparamedic: Jegred2: You are the one advocating consequence free sex with anything for women

No, I'm not. Raising a child is hardly consequence free. Child support is not about what is best for the woman, at any rate It's about what is best for the child, namely not making him a ward of the state and a burden on society as a whole.

Jegred2: and I never said anything about rape.

No, you just implied a man is too stupid to take control of his own ability to procreate.

Jegred2: Also, women should be smart enough to either use birth control, or verify that the man is wearing a condom before they have sex

Yeah, they should. And a man should be smart enough to know that hormonal contraception can fail, or someone could be lying to him. If he's so desperate that he can't keep it in his damn pants, it's not a gigantic leap to put a condom on.

Jegred2: You are codling women with your attitude.

No, I'm not. It takes 46 chromosomes to make a baby. You're donating 23 of them. You have control over that 23, and keeping it away from that egg. Stop pretending to be the oppressed one.

Jegred2: BTW, I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.

Which is irrelevant to the discussion. What was addressed was your parroting of Men's Rights Activist talking points and your "strawman feminist" claims about rape apologetics and blaming a victim for their sexual assault. Irregardless, you should know better than to force your opinion onto the rights of others.

A woman has a right to self-determination for what happens in her own body. Until that point that it is out and a neonate, you have no say and rightfully so.

Jegred2: There is no need for you to get nasty and emotional because you don't agree with what I say. Act like a civilized adult.

I am acting like a civilized adult, you delicate little flower. Your talking points are blatantly offe ...


You aren't even worth arguing with, and it doesn't even matter anyway. Those women who are going to use abortion as a form of birth control are doing the world a favor and making sure less of their genes are running around. Using abortion as birth control is irresponsible in the extreme. Good luck with your arguments and personal attacks.
 
2013-05-12 07:39:22 PM
You know who got it right?  The French. After 12 - 14 weeks you've made your choice. Plan B in gumball machines everywhere.
 
2013-05-12 07:42:46 PM

Jegred2: I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.


It should never be a first line of defense but abortion ultimately *is* the last line of birth control and should be made available and covered under everyone's basic medical plan and paid for with tax dollars if necessary.

Key word there is not "birth" so much as "control".

I believe it's morally repugnant of someone to try to control another person body and life to the degree that you advocate.

You believe that abortion is morally wrong without a medical or rape reason and that beyond those exception it should be illegal.

I doubt we'll ever change each other's minds.
 
2013-05-12 07:52:04 PM

quatchi: Jegred2: I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.

It should never be a first line of defense but abortion ultimately *is* the last line of birth control and should be made available and covered under everyone's basic medical plan and paid for with tax dollars if necessary.

Key word there is not "birth" so much as "control".

I believe it's morally repugnant of someone to try to control another person body and life to the degree that you advocate.

You believe that abortion is morally wrong without a medical or rape reason and that beyond those exception it should be illegal.

I doubt we'll ever change each other's minds.


Why should the government pay for abortion? Its not the governments job to fix a problem caused by irresponsibility. By that logic the government should provide me with free condoms and spermicidal lube on the taxpayers dime.
 
2013-05-12 07:54:45 PM

Jegred2: quatchi: Jegred2: I never said abortion should be illegal, just that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. If there aren't any medical reasons or rape reasons to get it then you shouldn't be getting it.

It should never be a first line of defense but abortion ultimately *is* the last line of birth control and should be made available and covered under everyone's basic medical plan and paid for with tax dollars if necessary.

Key word there is not "birth" so much as "control".

I believe it's morally repugnant of someone to try to control another person body and life to the degree that you advocate.

You believe that abortion is morally wrong without a medical or rape reason and that beyond those exception it should be illegal.

I doubt we'll ever change each other's minds.

Why should the government pay for abortion? Its not the governments job to fix a problem caused by irresponsibility. By that logic the government should provide me with free condoms and spermicidal lube on the taxpayers dime.


While regrettable in a philosophical sense, it would probably be a fiscal no-brainer if anyone crunched the numbers.
 
2013-05-12 08:07:47 PM

vygramul: Biological Ali: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

I'm not the one who decided to go with something stupid like "pro-life". You'll have to take it up with them.

I'm not asking them why they call themselves pro-life rather than anti-abortion. I'm not asking you why you don't call them pro-life. I'm asking you why you don't call them anti-abortion. Your dodging the question suggests you recognize the ground upon which you stand and realize you're not entirely happy with it.


I'm not "dodging the question" - I actually don't understand what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to ask me something, or are you trying to tell me something? If you're trying to make some sort of point, you might as well be up front about it rather than beating about the bush.
 
2013-05-12 08:26:51 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: Biological Ali: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

I'm not the one who decided to go with something stupid like "pro-life". You'll have to take it up with them.

I'm not asking them why they call themselves pro-life rather than anti-abortion. I'm not asking you why you don't call them pro-life. I'm asking you why you don't call them anti-abortion. Your dodging the question suggests you recognize the ground upon which you stand and realize you're not entirely happy with it.

I'm not "dodging the question" - I actually don't understand what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to ask me something, or are you trying to tell me something? If you're trying to make some sort of point, you might as well be up front about it rather than beating about the bush.


Beating around the bush is a good way to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.
 
2013-05-12 08:27:48 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: Biological Ali: vygramul: Then why not just go with "anti-abortion" which is more precise?

I'm not the one who decided to go with something stupid like "pro-life". You'll have to take it up with them.

I'm not asking them why they call themselves pro-life rather than anti-abortion. I'm not asking you why you don't call them pro-life. I'm asking you why you don't call them anti-abortion. Your dodging the question suggests you recognize the ground upon which you stand and realize you're not entirely happy with it.

I'm not "dodging the question" - I actually don't understand what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to ask me something, or are you trying to tell me something? If you're trying to make some sort of point, you might as well be up front about it rather than beating about the bush.


The question is pretty straight forward:

Why do you call them anti-choice rather than anti-abortion, which is more precise?
 
2013-05-12 08:29:53 PM

vygramul: Why do you call them anti-choice rather than anti-abortion, which is more precise?


What? I myself just call them "pro-life" because that's the stupid name they've picked out for themselves. I don't really care what other people call them.
 
2013-05-12 08:31:01 PM

Biological Ali: vygramul: Why do you call them anti-choice rather than anti-abortion, which is more precise?

What? I myself just call them "pro-life" because that's the stupid name they've picked out for themselves. I don't really care what other people call them.


OK, by why do other pro-choicers choose to call them anti-choice rather than anti-abortion?
 
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