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(BBC)   Guatemalan military ruler Efrain Rios Montt becomes first former head of state to be convicted of genocide by his own country's courts   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, Guatemala's Rios Montt, Guatemalan, enemy of the state, types of rape, Guatemala, will grant, head of state, Public Enemy  
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811 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 May 2013 at 9:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-11 05:16:31 PM
Good riddance.  Check out BoingBoing where Xeni has been covering this on site.
 
2013-05-11 06:53:36 PM
Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala we used to make fresh coffee. Right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shiat, but hey... at least they got rid of this guy
 
2013-05-11 07:55:36 PM
Survivors described horrific abuses committed by the army against those suspected of aiding left-wing rebels.

Killing lefties?  He's a teabagger's dream!
 
2013-05-11 08:11:02 PM
And so ends the civil war started by the United Fruit Company. Now known as Chiquita. Not a single company employee will do a day in jail.
 
2013-05-11 08:39:36 PM
The first? Subby, read a book.
 
2013-05-11 09:38:06 PM
 
2013-05-11 09:48:34 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Survivors described horrific abuses committed by the army against those suspected of aiding left-wing rebels.

Killing lefties?  He's a teabagger's dream!


Most of the teabaggers herping and derping about "2nd amendment solutions" and how they won't let Fartbongo take their gun would probably have gladly joined death squads in Central America in the '80s.  Get to go around shooting lefties?  Hell yeah!
 
2013-05-11 09:57:22 PM
This could have been avoided if he had efrained from killing all those people.
 
2013-05-11 10:01:12 PM

Apos: I beg to differ, subby.


Sadam? Half a point.

I think a lot of the world looks at the trial and execution of Saddam Hussein as a US led initiative despite the rubber stamp of approval by the Iraqis, especially in light of the fact that he was convicted of a crime that had no tied to the US like that pesky WMD issue.

FTA: He is expected to appeal against the court's decision on the grounds of his age.

Because he's lived to a ripe old age he shouldn't have to go to jail over so many people who didn't get to?

[howaboutno?]
 
2013-05-11 10:02:10 PM
That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?
 
2013-05-11 10:21:34 PM

2wolves: And so ends the civil war started by the United Fruit Company. Now known as Chiquita. Not a single company employee will do a day in jail.


Nor will the people in the US government who funded and trained them.
 
2013-05-11 10:36:16 PM
Reagan's legacy.  The genocide, not the conviction.
 
2013-05-11 10:46:57 PM

Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?


Not prosecuted by his own state.
 
2013-05-11 10:47:36 PM
That judge don't play.
 
2013-05-11 11:23:11 PM

VictoryCabal: Reagan's legacy.  The genocide, not the conviction.


Rios Montt was Reagan's man, but the trouble in Guatemala goes back to Eisenhower.
 
2013-05-11 11:28:09 PM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: VictoryCabal: Reagan's legacy.  The genocide, not the conviction.

Rios Montt was Reagan's man, but the trouble in Guatemala goes back to Eisenhower.


How were they to know that training a psychotic madman and his forces into effective death squads, training in terror tactics and enacting mass slaughter, and then arming them to the teeth and saying go out and slaughter anyone who oppose you and we'll protect you from any retribution was going to cause legal problems later on? I tell you, I had no idea it was going to happen. Next you'll tell us Augustus Pinochet was not an outstanding civil man too, or that the Taliban are not the shining example of the US founding fathers Reagan claimed them to be. It just makes no sense at all.
 
2013-05-11 11:31:09 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-11 11:51:50 PM

coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.


Ceaucescu?
 
2013-05-11 11:58:43 PM

Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?


Not for genocide.
 
2013-05-12 12:01:19 AM

Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?


Bless you.
 
2013-05-12 12:12:14 AM

Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?


Don't think he was prosecuted for genocide.

Plus, I'd hardly call what happened to him a "trial". Won't shed a tear for the bastard, though.
 
2013-05-12 12:16:41 AM
wemeantwell.com

Did you hear that sound? Several people in that pic just shiat themselves.
 
2013-05-12 12:36:37 AM
did Guatemala have a law on the books making genocide a prosecutable offense before this guy committed his alleged genocide? 'cause he was specifically convicted of 'genocide'. was the law created specifically for this guy?

i'm actually curious, even tho i assume i already know the answers.

/legislating morality - don't do it.
 
2013-05-12 12:45:42 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: [wemeantwell.com image 337x235]

Did you hear that sound? Several people in that pic just shiat themselves.


why would they. we as a government and as the people behind that government don't have the balls to go after them.

we put it off because the economy, the politics were too hard, we had time but first .....

and it didn't get done and probably never will here or at the hague. and bush opens his liebrary and the revisionist have a field day and we biatch here on fark.
 
2013-05-12 01:38:55 AM

fusillade762: 2wolves: And so ends the civil war started by the United Fruit Company. Now known as Chiquita. Not a single company employee executive will do a day in jail.

Nor will the people in the US government who funded and soldiers who trained them, or leaders who gave the orders

.

But hey, at least we got cheap bananas, right?
 
2013-05-12 02:00:45 AM

the801: did Guatemala have a law on the books making genocide a prosecutable offense before this guy committed his alleged genocide? 'cause he was specifically convicted of 'genocide'. was the law created specifically for this guy?

i'm actually curious, even tho i assume i already know the answers.

/legislating morality - don't do it.


Hm, given that the alternative besides an ex post facto law was probably either "let the f*cker go because we don't have a law that covers his heinous crimes" or "put him up against a wall anyway because of his heinous crimes," this may be the one time an ex post facto law is the only moral alternative.
 
2013-05-12 02:19:07 AM

Gyrfalcon: the801: did Guatemala have a law on the books making genocide a prosecutable offense before this guy committed his alleged genocide? 'cause he was specifically convicted of 'genocide'. was the law created specifically for this guy?

i'm actually curious, even tho i assume i already know the answers.

/legislating morality - don't do it.

Hm, given that the alternative besides an ex post facto law was probably either "let the f*cker go because we don't have a law that covers his heinous crimes" or "put him up against a wall anyway because of his heinous crimes," this may be the one time an ex post facto law is the only moral alternative.


Would they even need to, though? Murder was likely illegal when the crimes were committed, so wouldn't tagging him with lots of murders as genocide entails lead to more or less the same punishment?
 
2013-05-12 02:21:38 AM
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."


 
2013-05-12 02:57:07 AM

the801: did Guatemala have a law on the books making genocide a prosecutable offense before this guy committed his alleged genocide? 'cause he was specifically convicted of 'genocide'. was the law created specifically for this guy?

i'm actually curious, even tho i assume i already know the answers.

/legislating morality - don't do it.




The Nuremberg and Tokyo trials pretty much settled that law. But there was a specific convention against genocide that Guatemala ratified in 1950. Also Guatemala is a party to the Rome Statute, so either they could prosecute or the International Criminal Court in The Hague could.
 
2013-05-12 03:02:58 AM

2wolves: And so ends the civil war started by the United Fruit Company. Now known as Chiquita. Not a single company employee will do a day in jail.


Given that this mess started in 1955, it's likely that most responsible are already dead.
 
2013-05-12 03:13:11 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-12 05:45:14 AM

Summoner101: Gyrfalcon: the801: did Guatemala have a law on the books making genocide a prosecutable offense before this guy committed his alleged genocide? 'cause he was specifically convicted of 'genocide'. was the law created specifically for this guy?

i'm actually curious, even tho i assume i already know the answers.

/legislating morality - don't do it.

Hm, given that the alternative besides an ex post facto law was probably either "let the f*cker go because we don't have a law that covers his heinous crimes" or "put him up against a wall anyway because of his heinous crimes," this may be the one time an ex post facto law is the only moral alternative.

Would they even need to, though? Murder was likely illegal when the crimes were committed, so wouldn't tagging him with lots of murders as genocide entails lead to more or less the same punishment?


I guess convicting someone of genocide is a lot more socially/politically/morally satisfying to the people he left behind than just convicting him of lots and lots of murders. And it's more accurate. What Hitler did was, in fact, genocide, NOT merely "mass murder."
 
2013-05-12 06:07:01 AM

limeyfellow: Lee Jackson Beauregard: VictoryCabal: Reagan's legacy.  The genocide, not the conviction.

Rios Montt was Reagan's man, but the trouble in Guatemala goes back to Eisenhower.

How were they to know that training a psychotic madman and his forces into effective death squads, training in terror tactics and enacting mass slaughter, and then arming them to the teeth and saying go out and slaughter anyone who oppose you and we'll protect you from any retribution was going to cause legal problems later on? I tell you, I had no idea it was going to happen. Next you'll tell us Augustus Pinochet was not an outstanding civil man too, or that the Taliban are not the shining example of the US founding fathers Reagan claimed them to be. It just makes no sense at all.


Umm...excuse me?  How the holy fark do you read my words as defending or excusing either St. Ronald, may he roast in hell, or Rios Montt?
 
2013-05-12 06:37:26 AM
THish remunds meh of the thyme we got hammered and you got your shotgun and started talking about how the UN was gonna prosecute the Catholic Church for Crimes Against Humanity for all they have done to harbor pedophiles worldwide....
 
2013-05-12 06:48:20 AM

Equilibrist: Check out BoingBoing


No.
 
2013-05-12 07:00:20 AM
How come I've never heard of this asshole?

Let's see. Oh, another School of the Americas graduate.

And this...from the Wiki

In 1978, he left the Roman Catholic Church and became a minister in the California-based evangelical Church of the Word. Since then Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have been personal friends.

And one more for the road.

During a meeting with Ríos Montt on December 4, Reagan declared: "President Ríos Montt is a man of great personal integrity and commitment. ... I know he wants to improve the quality of life for all Guatemalans and to promote social justice.
 
2013-05-12 07:40:25 AM
Once they start executing the people that poison the rivers for your food, incidentally killing thousands upon thousands for generations, you may understand moral alternatives.
 
2013-05-12 08:40:35 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Given that this mess started in 1955, it's likely that most responsible are already dead.


Thus the beauty of immortal corporations. They get to keep all of the benefits of their crimes and use them to build themselves into a larger entity while not being required to accept any consequences because the humans involved are long gone.
 
2013-05-12 09:14:30 AM

EngineerAU: Thus the beauty of immortal corporations. They get to keep all of the benefits of their crimes and use them to build themselves into a larger entity while not being required to accept any consequences because the humans involved are long gone.


...But ...as we all know, corporations are people, so it doesn't matter whether the little human people who were involved are still with them, right?

...right?
 
2013-05-12 11:45:39 AM

Uncle Tractor: EngineerAU: Thus the beauty of immortal corporations. They get to keep all of the benefits of their crimes and use them to build themselves into a larger entity while not being required to accept any consequences because the humans involved are long gone.

...But ...as we all know, corporations are people, so it doesn't matter whether the little human people who were involved are still with them, right?

...right?


Wrong.
 
2013-05-12 01:18:41 PM
Amateur.

www.crimesinthenameofgod.com
 
2013-05-12 03:22:49 PM
What's really messed up about this is that his Son In Law is a former US Congressman and a Lobbyist.
 
2013-05-12 04:56:20 PM

Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?


Ooh, I forgot about that one. Didn't they string him up along with his lovely and vicious wife?
 
2013-05-12 06:50:46 PM
A three-judge tribunal sentenced the 86-year-old to 80 years in prison.

So a guy with fewer than 10 years left in him has an 80-year sentence. Heh.
 
2013-05-12 07:01:12 PM

Evil High Priest: Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?

Ooh, I forgot about that one. Didn't they string him up along with his lovely and vicious wife?


Firing squad.  The gunmen didn't even wait for "ready, aim, fire".
 
2013-05-12 07:05:07 PM

Evil High Priest: Gyrfalcon: coco ebert: Gyrfalcon: That's cool, but Milosevic wasn't a head of state?

Not prosecuted by his own state.

Ceaucescu?

Ooh, I forgot about that one. Didn't they string him up along with his lovely and vicious wife?


Firing squad.
 
2013-05-12 07:12:41 PM

jake_lex: Lionel Mandrake: Survivors described horrific abuses committed by the army against those suspected of aiding left-wing rebels.

Killing lefties?  He's a teabagger's dream!

Most of the teabaggers herping and derping about "2nd amendment solutions" and how they won't let Fartbongo take their gun would probably have gladly joined death squads in Central America in the '80s.  Get to go around shooting lefties Messkins?  Hell yeah!


FTF the teabaggers
 
2013-05-12 10:52:20 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Survivors described horrific abuses committed by the army against those suspected of aiding left-wing rebels.

Killing lefties?  He's a teabagger's dream!


WTF? Ever here of Mao, Stalin, Che, Pol Pot.... How is limited government a guard against tyranny?

Leftists have mass slaughtered more then any other group in the 20th century, comrade.

You can have a one way trip to Cambodia on my dime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KTsXHXMkJA
 
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