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(SFGate)   Pennsylvania has some beautiful farm land, but don't take any pictures because that's about to become a felony   (sfgate.com) divider line 147
    More: Sick, Pennsylvania, Marcellus Shale, agricultural land, felony  
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19961 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2013 at 4:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-11 06:17:09 PM
Seems fine to me, provided the farm/farmer in question does not receive one f*cking penny of government subsidies.

Your place, your privacy. If we're footing any part of the bill, I think we can have a little look-see.
 
2013-05-11 06:21:02 PM

mod3072: Oldiron_79: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

Cons care about the 1st amendment as well, they just interpret it a little differently. Instead of "freedom of religion", it's "freedom to be whichever flavor of Christianity you want".


...and most libs interpret it as "freedom from religion"

/Aren't broad partisan brushes fun?
 
2013-05-11 06:22:07 PM
Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill
 
2013-05-11 06:27:12 PM

OgreMagi: EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.

Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.


i decided to do more research after my post, and you are right.  However, it looks as tho some of the Penn popo didnt get the memo, and may still be arresting folks.
http://www.aclupa.org/pressroom/aclusettleslawsuitoverarre.htm

As we know, an arrest can be as bad as a conviction
 
2013-05-11 06:30:55 PM

downstairs: TFA: Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

I haven't read the bill, but if the bolded part above is one of the conditions, I don't really see a problem.  I'm generally a "first ammendment above all else" guy, and animal abuse sickens me... but you still can't trespass on private property.


There are already laws against trespassing.
 
2013-05-11 06:36:29 PM

JesusJuice: There are already laws against trespassing.


tell that to the state swat team that stormed my compound and took my guns and drugs away.
 
2013-05-11 06:39:40 PM
sadly, I read this part in the article

"If you're not doing anything wrong, there's nothing to hide."


And I have to say fark you activists.

/shouldn't need to explain it
 
2013-05-11 06:40:19 PM

OgreMagi: EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.

Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.


People still get arrested for using their cameraphones to video police in Chicago.  Recently, even.  It happens quite often.  One case was in the news not too many months ago.

Federal justice is for rich people with the money and time to fight through layer after layer government red tape, delays, and lower courts until they reach the federal level.  The rest of us have to just pay a fine and go back to work.

In Illinois it's still illegal to audio record someone without their knowledge.  The law goes back to the old gangster days before there was any federal law enforcement with teeth.  The politicians didn't want to get recorded taking bribes.  You can tell that the law is antiquated because it only applies to audio.  To this day when Chicago TV stations do "undercover" investigations, they're video only -- no sound -- with subtitles.
 
2013-05-11 06:42:31 PM

Hrist: bborchar: Where's PETA when they could actually do some good?

But anyway, yeah, this won't pass muster.  You can charge someone with trespassing, and you can even sue them for libel if they publish something UNTRUE about your company- however, you CANNOT prosecute someone for publishing what goes on in your company without making them sign a contract first.  And even then, you can't get them for telling authorities that you're doing something illegal.

Sorry, but truth isn't an ultimate defense against libel/slander.  You can be found guilty of libel/slander even if what you said was true.

This whole thing came about because certain political powers that be have money in this industry and they're afraid it might not be completely clean.  The idea that it is a FELONY is absolutely retarded, because felonies were specifically meant to be for violent/dangerous/brutal people.  Like if I punch you in the face it isn't a felony.  If I take your wallet and steal your money, it may not be a felony.  If I stab you, that's a felony.  That's right...same kind of crime as taking a picture of a farm.  Yep, that's justice right there.


Definition of libel/slander:

Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

You can't sue someone for saying that you slept with the president for a position in the company if that person can prove that it's true.  The end.
 
2013-05-11 06:54:16 PM

reaperducer: OgreMagi: EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.

Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.

People still get arrested for using their cameraphones to video police in Chicago.  Recently, even.  It happens quite often.  One case was in the news not too many months ago.

Federal justice is for rich people with the money and time to fight through layer after layer government red tape, delays, and lower courts until they reach the federal level.  The rest of us have to just pay a fine and go back to work.

In Illinois it's still illegal to audio record someone without their knowledge.  The law goes back to the old gangster days before there was any federal law enforcement with teeth.  The politicians didn't want to get recorded taking bribes.  You can tell that the law is antiquated because it only applies to audio.  To this day when Chicago TV stations do "undercover" investigations, they're video only -- no sound -- with subtitles.


As I mentioned up-thread, Federal courts have already made it clear that the police have no expectation of privacy when going about their duties.  One of these cases applied specifically to Chicago.  You are now free to record (both audio and video) the police in Illinois. That doesn't mean the police won't harass you and possibly even arrest you.  But if they do, they open themselves up to a fat lawsuit, assuming you aren't killed when you pull out that gun you had along with that kilo of crack they found on your lifeless body.
 
2013-05-11 06:55:25 PM
Too Late.  I grew up on a PA dairy farm 10 miles from where Flight 93 went down, and I have scads of pictures of the place.

/Wish I had a way to host them so I could link to some of them here.
 
2013-05-11 06:56:52 PM

TopoGigo: It's not entirely a straw man. The people in the HSUS are crazy animal righters. They're pretty much what you'd expect PETA to be if they had money and political clout.
That being said, I'm not so trusting as to believe this bill is purely designed to protect farmers from the abuses of nutjob documentarians.


I read that as him saying anyone that opposes the bill is some hippy-dippy Vegan.  It definitely could be out of context, but that was the impression I got.  You can support the exposure of the horrible animal abuses that go on all over US farms and still think eating animals is ethical, suggesting otherwise is a false dichotomy.

I don't know much about the HSUS to be honest, My impression is that they at least do constructive work for animals unlike organizations like PETA.  I never got the impression they were crazy animal righters, but I admittedly don't follow closely.
 
2013-05-11 06:59:02 PM

JesusJuice: downstairs: TFA: Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

I haven't read the bill, but if the bolded part above is one of the conditions, I don't really see a problem.  I'm generally a "first ammendment above all else" guy, and animal abuse sickens me... but you still can't trespass on private property.

There are already laws against trespassing.


And there are already laws against using guns to commit crimes. Too bad that's not good enough any more.

/did you really think the progressives wouldn't do to the first amendment the exact same thing they're doing to the second?
//and the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up, to explain it to us once more
 
2013-05-11 06:59:24 PM
See, it's not always those wrinkled senile ol' trouts with "R" beside their names that SUCK UP to big business when they wave money under their greedy noses.

Corrupt as hell.All of 'em.
 
2013-05-11 07:17:43 PM

reaperducer: OgreMagi: EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.

Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.

People still get arrested for using their cameraphones to video police in Chicago.  Recently, even.  It happens quite often.  One case was in the news not too many months ago.

Federal justice is for rich people with the money and time to fight through layer after layer government red tape, delays, and lower courts until they reach the federal level.  The rest of us have to just pay a fine and go back to work.

In Illinois it's still illegal to audio record someone without their knowledge.  The law goes back to the old gangster days before there was any federal law enforcement with teeth.  The politicians didn't want to get recorded taking bribes.  You can tell that the law is antiquated because it only applies to audio.  To this day when Chicago TV stations do "undercover" investigations, they're video only -- no sound -- with subtitles.


The times, they have passed you by my friend. You're working with old information.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-26/news/chi-supreme-court -r ejects-plea-to-prohibit-taping-of-police-20121126_1_cook-and-crawford- counties-police-officers-enforcement
 
2013-05-11 07:27:33 PM

Nemo's Brother: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

The president has shown no regard to the constitution and the leftist sheep have proven to be ok with it.


:LOL

The President has no jurisdiction over Pennsylvania state law.
 
2013-05-11 07:32:12 PM

bborchar: Hrist: bborchar: Where's PETA when they could actually do some good?

But anyway, yeah, this won't pass muster.  You can charge someone with trespassing, and you can even sue them for libel if they publish something UNTRUE about your company- however, you CANNOT prosecute someone for publishing what goes on in your company without making them sign a contract first.  And even then, you can't get them for telling authorities that you're doing something illegal.

Sorry, but truth isn't an ultimate defense against libel/slander.  You can be found guilty of libel/slander even if what you said was true.

This whole thing came about because certain political powers that be have money in this industry and they're afraid it might not be completely clean.  The idea that it is a FELONY is absolutely retarded, because felonies were specifically meant to be for violent/dangerous/brutal people.  Like if I punch you in the face it isn't a felony.  If I take your wallet and steal your money, it may not be a felony.  If I stab you, that's a felony.  That's right...same kind of crime as taking a picture of a farm.  Yep, that's justice right there.

Definition of libel/slander:

Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

You can't sue someone for saying that you slept with the president for a position in the company if that person can prove that it's true.  The end.


It is exceedingly rare, but there have been cases where truth was not a defense to a defamation case.  Usually they involve defendants who, with extreme malice, made particularly egregious statements of an embarrassing nature about victims who weren't particularly public figures.  These situations are on the fringes next to invasion of privacy and tortuous interference with contractual rights.
 
2013-05-11 07:47:04 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: See, it's not always those wrinkled senile ol' trouts with "R" beside their names that SUCK UP to big business when they wave money under their greedy noses.

Corrupt as hell.All of 'em.


And yet some of them have been reelected decade after decade. It's as if you somehow reap what you sow...
 
2013-05-11 07:48:10 PM
I hear they're growing houses in the fields, between the towns.
 
2013-05-11 07:57:52 PM

Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.


Which town? And they can consider all the goofy laws they want, unless it's for reasons of seasonal fire problems it's pretty much a non issue.

#2 In Louisiana, a church was recently ordered to stop giving out waterbecause it did not have a permit to do so.

If this is the case I'm thinking of (and who knows because they are vague as an urban legend about who what where and when) it was due to problems with the homeless.

#3 In the United States it is illegal to operate a train that does not have an "F"painted on the front.  Apparently without that "F" we all might not know where the front of the train is.

Trains are reversible and it's not always obvious which way they're going to go when they're at a stop.

#4 In many U.S. states is it now illegal to collect rain that falls from the sky on to your own property.

Again if this is due to what I'm thinking, it's because rain water collects in public areas for all of us to use, and when hits the ground enters underground natural resivors (however the fark that's spelled). Some asshat was collecting millions of gallons and storing it on his private land. This was problematic for everyone. I think there was even an article on FARK about it.

#5 In America today it is illegal to milk your cow and sell the milk to your neighbor.  If you do this, there is a good chance that federal agents will raid your home at the crack of dawn.

Raw milk though...right? And perhaps read on the history of milk in this country and pasturization. This isn't a bad law.

#6 In Washington D.C. it is illegal not to recycle cat litter.

Never heard this one, curious as to the reasons.

#7 It is illegal to give a tour of the monuments in Washington D.C. without a license.

In public, in groups for profit. The same as it is in most cities. Biz licenses apply to all. /shrug

#8 In the United States it is illegal to sell natural cures for cancer - even if they work.

This is bullshiat :) All natural cures have to do is prove they work. You know...scientifically. Then it's medicine. But since no 'natural' cures manage this....yeah. THey're illegal and should be.

#9 In the state of Massachusetts it is illegal to deface a milk carton.

This needs more deets.

#10 In the state of Alabama, bear wrestling is completely illegal.

I'm...okay with this? Why is this here? Are some people really upset they can't wrestle bears? Or watch bears wrestle each other? We're talking actual BEARS right, and not large hairy gay men? Because I'm pretty sure that goes on during Fiesta and bear runs...


#11 In Fairbanks, Alaska it is illegal to give alcoholic beverages to a moose.

Seriously who has issues with this? Moose are also pretty dangerous sober. ;)

#12 In Lake Elmo, Minnesota it is illegal to sell pumpkins or Christmas trees that are grown outside city limits.

Don't care.

#13 There is a federal law that makes it illegal to be "annoying" on the Internet.

No, there isn't.

#14 If you register with a false name on MySpace or Facebook you could potentially "spend five years in federal prison".

Depends on the purpose, any time you use a false name with the INTENT to defraud, you can face charges. Sex workers use facebook. No one I know uses their own name in sex work, it's always a stage name. No one is in jail for this.

#15 In Hazelwood, Missouri it is illegal for little girls to sell girl scout cookies in the front yards of their own homes.

It's illegal in a lot of places to conduct a biz in a physical set location without a permit where it's not zoned for that. Girl Scouts are a biz.

#16 All over the United States lemonade stands run by children are being shut down because they do not have the proper permits.

Yeees, and this happened in MOST places because adults were having kids set up perm. stands to make money from tourists. Amish country was farking famous for this, having their kids out there in stands shilling lemonade.

#17 In Florida, it is illegal to bring a plastic butter knife to school.

Florida has bigger problems than this. Much bigger problems than this.

#18 In San Juan Capistrano, California it is illegal to hold a home Bible study without a "conditional use permit".

Dunno the reason but I do know in Southern CA in the last 10 years many locations have similar rules because private 'churches' were running services out of members homes constantly and packing WAAAAY too many people into the same homes week after week. Neighbors do not like this either.

#19 In the city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania it is illegal to make even a single dollar ...

You make money with a biz, they want you to have their permit. Why is this an issue? Might as well throw a tantrum because if you earn even a single buck doing ANYTHING...tax man wants his due. This is called life. 

I find lists where it mentions silly unenforced laws like you can't whistle while walking a pig on the sidewalk on Sundays far more entertaining.
 
2013-05-11 08:36:46 PM

Fano: I'd like to see some photos of huuuge tracts of land.


Sorry, it burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp.
 
2013-05-11 08:43:42 PM
More opacity is what we need.
 
2013-05-11 09:09:16 PM

mod3072: Oldiron_79: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

Cons care about the 1st amendment as well, they just interpret it a little differently. Instead of "freedom of religion", it's "freedom to be whichever flavor of Christianity you want".


Wait, so ... you're saying libs only care about religious porn?
 
2013-05-11 09:41:36 PM

Carousel Beast: mod3072: Oldiron_79: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

Cons care about the 1st amendment as well, they just interpret it a little differently. Instead of "freedom of religion", it's "freedom to be whichever flavor of Christianity you want".

...and most libs interpret it as "freedom from religion"



But since I've been often told that Atheism is a religion, doesn't that mean that freedom FROM religion *is* freedom OF religion?
 
2013-05-11 09:59:41 PM

Lady Indica: Clemkadidlefark:#11 In Fairbanks, Alaska it is illegal to give alcoholic beverages to a moose.


Seriously who has issues with this? Moose are also pretty dangerous sober. ;)

Absolutely.  One bit my sister once.
 
2013-05-11 11:00:56 PM

Aeonite: How many ways are there to move a cow?


Corgis were bred to do it.

/Their short legs let them avoid being kicked while herding.
 
2013-05-11 11:19:36 PM

ciberido: Lady Indica: Clemkadidlefark:#11 In Fairbanks, Alaska it is illegal to give alcoholic beverages to a moose.

Seriously who has issues with this? Moose are also pretty dangerous sober. ;)

Absolutely.  One bit my sister once.


She shouldn't have been carving her initials on it! Besides didn't you get sacked the LAST time you wrote about this? ;)
 
2013-05-11 11:33:11 PM

ciberido: Fano: I'd like to see some photos of huuuge tracts of land.

Sorry, it burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-11 11:53:28 PM

make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.


The photo law May be crap, but I could totally understand using the photos as evidence of trespassing and prosecute that offense.
 
DYI
2013-05-12 12:01:58 AM
Lady Indica: Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.

Which town? And they can consider all the goofy laws they want, unless it's for reasons of seasonal fire problems it's pretty much a non issue.


Although it is rarely enforced, San Luis Obispo Made it illegal to smoke anywhere in town except on your own property. If someone complains about about you smoking on public property, the police can give you a ticket.
 
2013-05-12 12:02:20 AM
The supporters of the bill are 100% correct, this DOES protect business owners... ...from having ANY accountability whatsoever.
 
2013-05-12 12:59:21 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Can't see this holding up in court.

Although it will cost the first victims a lot of money.


I can. 5-4. Like always.
 
2013-05-12 01:04:28 AM
Did Frank back this bill?
cdn.uproxx.com
 
2013-05-12 01:48:35 AM

Krieghund: Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.

That's an urban myth. It was one dude that was pissed that his neighbor was smoking and he asked the city council to ban it. They did nothing.


Most of that post is probably myths though some of it makes a little sense. I've never seen an F on the front of a train but it would make sense. There are often locomotives on both ends of a train for various reasons.
 
2013-05-12 01:55:48 AM
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -- Thomas Jefferson.

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -- Thomas Jefferson.

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -- Thomas Jefferson.

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -- Thomas Jefferson.

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -- Thomas Jefferson.
 
2013-05-12 02:33:35 AM

Carousel Beast: mod3072: Oldiron_79: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

Cons care about the 1st amendment as well, they just interpret it a little differently. Instead of "freedom of religion", it's "freedom to be whichever flavor of Christianity you want".

...and most libs interpret it as "freedom from religion"

/Aren't broad partisan brushes fun?


Funny, do you mean liberals or libertarians?

Because as a liberal libertarian atheist, I'm getting a kick.

/fark Christians, they're domestic terrorists
 
2013-05-12 02:50:02 AM
This another attempt to simply close our eyes and ears and go "lallalalalala I can't hear you!"

People should be concerned about their feed animals and who raises them. It doesn't cost much more to be ethical and if you are going the extra mile to be ethical you should expect a higher standard for cleanliness and other things.
 
2013-05-12 08:25:45 AM

pxlboy: Paintbox: Astorix: Just what we need more laws to create criminals. More laws to damage the First Amendment. Way to go, Pennsyltucky.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Ayn Rand

That is the single most insightful thing she ever wrote.


Broken clock, etc.
 
2013-05-12 08:58:02 AM

LadySusan: Okay, that last one was uncalled for. I retract it.


If the escort agency is located on a parcel of land zoned for agriculture, then perhaps. However as Penn St. testifies, it may be a football player working his way to A-Team.
 
2013-05-12 09:50:26 AM

Flragnararch: sadly, I read this part in the article

"If you're not doing anything wrong, there's nothing to hide."


And I have to say fark you activists.

/shouldn't need to explain it


You didn't read the article very carefully then. Because that line was also used by a farmer who opposes this legislation.

So...fark you farmers, instead?
 
2013-05-12 10:24:04 AM
Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

There are laws already on the books for this...I know it's hard to weed through the million+ we already have, but they are there.
 
2013-05-12 11:53:44 AM

CruJones: The law should be the same as it is for personal property, like your house.  So whatever those standards are should apply to businesses.   Private property is private property.


The idea that businesses are (or should be) "private" in the same sense as a domicile is naive and foolish.
 
2013-05-12 01:14:36 PM

OgreMagi: EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.

Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.


Oh, they still take cameras away from people that try to tape them. If/when they get them back, anything that was recorded is gone.
 
2013-05-12 07:44:59 PM

Krieghund: That's an urban myth. It was one dude that was pissed that his neighbor was smoking and he asked the city council to ban it. They did nothing.


When I first read a headline saying that the city of Rocklin, California was considering banning residents from smoking outside of their homes on their own property, I was outraged.

Is outraged the new I do not agree with whatever?

/needs to find something to be outraged about
//maybe cold pizza being delivered?
 
2013-05-12 08:44:08 PM

booger42: I hear they're growing houses in the fields, between the towns.


How does one grow a house?
 
2013-05-12 08:52:53 PM

Clemkadidlefark: #3 In the United States it is illegal to operate a train that does not have an "F"painted on the front. Apparently without that "F" we all might not know where the front of the train is.


antiadvertisingagency.com

www.fodors.com

Nope. No F.
 
2013-05-12 10:13:33 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

People in my state shouldn't be this stupid. You have to remember this guy was our senator at one time. We're doing better.

www.plunderbund.com
 
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