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(SFGate)   Pennsylvania has some beautiful farm land, but don't take any pictures because that's about to become a felony   (sfgate.com) divider line 147
    More: Sick, Pennsylvania, Marcellus Shale, agricultural land, felony  
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19970 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2013 at 4:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-11 04:50:06 PM  
Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.
 
2013-05-11 04:50:28 PM  

kidgenius: FTA:
'Look, this guy's dragging a cow on a chain with a tractor.' Well, there aren't too many ways of moving a cow.

Is the cow alive? Then you shouldnt be dragging it.


Yep. People have been moving cattle for thousands of years without dragging them.

And of it's dead then no one will care.
 
2013-05-11 04:50:33 PM  

JeffreyScott: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

The Tennessee Attorney General has stated that the version that passed the Tennessee legislator by one vote, and is sitting on the governor's desk, is constitutionally suspect.  Given the TN Attorney General's opinion that any version would be constitutionally suspect.

Video tape was recently used to capture and expose a huge amount of animal abuse in connection with the Tennessee Walking Horse competition.  The soring and beating of walking horses is apparently nearly industry wide.  It's telling when inspectors show up at the competitions to check for horse shoring competitors pack up their horses and leave.  Horse soring is the act of placing chemicals on a horses legs then wrapping them in plastic to cause the walking horse pain and this pain causes the horses to walk with a high gait, which is called the big lick.

The trainers abuse the horses by hitting them with hammers and boards so they will not move when inspectors touch their legs after being sored.  (video link - graphic)  There were several convictions recently here in Tennessee in federal court, and other pending in state court, as a result of that linked video.  All of the federal court defendants that were charged plead guilty.  Sadly none received any jail or prison time.

It is not cheap to own, train, or show Tennessee Walking Horses, so many in Tennessee believe that the Tennessee version of the Agg-Gag bill is a result of a lot of rich people wanting to be sure that this manner of animal treatment doesn't get any more exposure and they can continue with business as usual.

The thought that after all of this that our governor is still considering this bill is pretty sick.

What is even more sick is other states are considering and appear to be ready to pass similar legislation.


o_O
 
2013-05-11 04:52:56 PM  

Oldiron_79: vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.


Cons care about the 1st amendment as well, they just interpret it a little differently. Instead of "freedom of religion", it's "freedom to be whichever flavor of Christianity you want".
 
2013-05-11 04:53:14 PM  
Oldiron_79:
Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

Both sides you say? Which should I vote for?
 
2013-05-11 04:58:12 PM  
The key issue: This ban is being proposed as a work-around of the first amendment. The line of reasoning for creating this legislation is ABSURD.

This kind of thing is why my friend's child was abused by his mother for over a decade in the state of Iowa. Photographic evidence be damned (context was not needed in those pictures), the father was the one threatened by the police for taking said photos (from the street, through an open door, in his own house [that he was NOT restrained from entering, legally]).
 
2013-05-11 04:58:28 PM  
Wow. This law is written almost as poorly and is as stupid as the law where LA tried to ban rave music.
 
2013-05-11 04:58:31 PM  
Oldiron_79:

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that we can all find common ground with videos of hot naked chicks shooting machine guns?

(I was going to google up some links for effect, but I knew that I'd just get distracted and never finish this post.)
 
2013-05-11 04:59:29 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.
#2 In Louisiana, a church was recently ordered to stop giving out waterbecause it did not have a permit to do so.
#3 In the United States it is illegal to operate a train that does not have an "F"painted on the front.  Apparently without that "F" we all might not know where the front of the train is.
#4 In many U.S. states is it now illegal to collect rain that falls from the sky on to your own property.
#5 In America today it is illegal to milk your cow and sell the milk to your neighbor.  If you do this, there is a good chance that federal agents will raid your home at the crack of dawn.
#6 In Washington D.C. it is illegal not to recycle cat litter.
#7 It is illegal to give a tour of the monuments in Washington D.C. without a license.
#8 In the United States it is illegal to sell natural cures for cancer - even if they work.
#9 In the state of Massachusetts it is illegal to deface a milk carton.
#10 In the state of Alabama, bear wrestling is completely illegal.
#11 In Fairbanks, Alaska it is illegal to give alcoholic beverages to a moose.
#12 In Lake Elmo, Minnesota it is illegal to sell pumpkins or Christmas trees that are grown outside city limits.
#13 There is a federal law that makes it illegal to be "annoying" on the Internet.
#14 If you register with a false name on MySpace or Facebook you could potentially "spend five years in federal prison".
#15 In Hazelwood, Missouri it is illegal for little girls to sell girl scout cookies in the front yards of their own homes.
#16 All over the United States lemonade stands run by children are being shut down because they do not have the proper permits.
#17 In Florida, it is illegal to bring a plastic butter knife to school.
#18 In San Juan Capistrano, California it is illegal to hold a home Bible study without a "conditional use permit".
#19 In the city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania it is illegal to make even a single dollar ...


Oh man, you mean there is a natural cure for cancer and big ole meany gubbermint shut down the honest hard working individual trying to sell it?  Those jerks, never letting cancer be cured.  They ought to put this stuff in a newsletter or some email distribution format.
 
2013-05-11 04:59:41 PM  

mcmiller: Oldiron_79:

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that we can all find common ground with videos of hot naked chicks shooting machine guns?

(I was going to google up some links for effect, but I knew that I'd just get distracted and never finish this post.)




Then I suppose you shouldn't watch this video (somewhat NSFW)
 
2013-05-11 04:59:54 PM  

99.998er: It's Pennsylvania. If you are going to abuse a goat or something, just take it into a men's locker room and nobody will say a word.


Don't you mean a kid?
 
2013-05-11 05:01:05 PM  
Oh, and this kind of thing is a start.

What about farm co-ops? What about community gardens? What about not-for-profit farms? Does one's home garden count? Can I not take a picture of a man slaughtering pets on his own property?
 
2013-05-11 05:01:42 PM  

mcmiller: Oldiron_79:

Cons only care about the 2nd and libs only care about the 1st if its for porn, otherwise they try and opress it harder than the cons do.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you're suggesting that we can all find common ground with videos of hot naked chicks shooting machine guns?

(I was going to google up some links for effect, but I knew that I'd just get distracted and never finish this post.)


Now that is some change we can all beleive in.
 
2013-05-11 05:02:25 PM  

Astorix: Just what we need more laws to create criminals. More laws to damage the First Amendment. Way to go, Pennsyltucky.


The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Ayn Rand
 
2013-05-11 05:04:31 PM  

Paintbox: Astorix: Just what we need more laws to create criminals. More laws to damage the First Amendment. Way to go, Pennsyltucky.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Ayn Rand


That is the single most insightful thing she ever wrote.
 
2013-05-11 05:05:21 PM  

make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.


Doubt it. The farms are private property after all. Here in NC our legislature already rammed through a similar bill that criminalizes any farm employee who becomes a whistleblower; this stops activists from getting hired on at a farm with the purpose of documenting the animal or safety abuses that take place there.

Of course, there's nothing stopping private citizens or the media or inspectors from visiting these farms, but don't expect to just drop in on a moment's notice and you certainly won't have the run of the place. Plus, if the media or visitors try to record anything, you'll get run off the farm pretty fast. As for the inspectors, well, defunding the state inspection agency and allowing the governor to fire anyone at will instead of giving them the right to a hearing and appeal means they aren't going to be visiting the factory farms all that often anyway (and probably schedule their 30 minute visit 2 weeks in advance too).

/Koch brothers getting their agenda advanced
//one state legislature at a time
 
2013-05-11 05:05:55 PM  

karmaceutical: Oh man, you mean there is a natural cure for cancer and big ole meany gubbermint shut down the honest hard working individual trying to sell it? Those jerks, never letting cancer be cured. They ought to put this stuff in a newsletter or some email distribution format.


ask him about vaccines, I dare yah.
 
2013-05-11 05:09:02 PM  

Astorix: Repo Man: phamwaa: FTFA:
--------------------------------
"The folks who (oppose) this legislation disagree with how animals are raised," Hurd said. "If they had their way, we'd only be eating lettuce and rice, and the animals would roam the country freely."
--------------------------------
 And lo, the gates of Hell were opened, and I did gaze upon the many afflictions there.

Animal-Rights Activists Release 71,000 Cows Into Wild

PRAIRIE DU CHIEN, WI-Members of the radical group Animal Liberation Front swept through a 900-square-mile region of Western Wisconsin Monday, freeing an estimated 71,000 cows from their human captors.

"These cows are finally free to run wild through the wilderness," said ski-masked ALF member "Brent," loosing a 200-head Guernsey herd from Milk-Rite Dairy in Reedsburg. "No creature should have to live in servitude to humans."

Within hours of the cows' release, police departments throughout the area began receiving reports of bovine fatalities.
...
The long-distance transport of the Cumberland cows was deemed necessary in light of an event last August, when 80 Milking Shorthorns were released from the Miklewski farm in Beloit, only to wander back into their pens the next day.

"It was the greatest thrill of my life to have personally broken the padlock on the gate that cruelly held these cows," Animal Liberation Front member Ross Kreutzman said. "As long as I live, I'll never forget the lazy, sluggish ...


ALF are domestic terrorists.

Repo Man, I just knew you'd catch someone. Well played! :^)
 
2013-05-11 05:09:47 PM  
Clemkadidlefark:
#1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.

This actually does make sense. California has a massive problem with forest fires; many people's "back yard" is a part of or adjacent to a forested area.

/besides, drug addicts should stay out of sight
 
2013-05-11 05:10:11 PM  
How many ways are there to move a cow?
 
2013-05-11 05:11:17 PM  

Aeonite: How many ways are there to move a cow?


southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-05-11 05:12:04 PM  
pxlboy:

mcmiller: (I was going to google up some links for effect, but I knew that I'd just get distracted and never finish this post.)

Then I suppose you shouldn't watch this video (somewhat NSFW)



That is a rediculous amount of awesome right there.
 
2013-05-11 05:12:26 PM  
The state officials who gave you Jerry Sandusky and Puppy Mills don't want you peering onto a farm where small animals or children are being raised. After all, that guy in neighboring Cleveland is spilling the beans and people might start looking at his farm.

It's a desperate attempt to lasso the lucrative sex tourism business which has recently been going offshore.
 
2013-05-11 05:12:41 PM  

mcmiller: pxlboy:

mcmiller: (I was going to google up some links for effect, but I knew that I'd just get distracted and never finish this post.)

Then I suppose you shouldn't watch this video (somewhat NSFW)

That is a rediculous amount of awesome right there.


I thought so. That is one of the best music videos ever made.
 
2013-05-11 05:12:46 PM  

Beta Tested: phamwaa: FTFA:
--------------------------------
"The folks who (oppose) this legislation disagree with how animals are raised," Hurd said. "If they had their way, we'd only be eating lettuce and rice, and the animals would roam the country freely."

--------------------------------
 And lo, the gates of Hell were opened, and I did gaze upon the many afflictions there.

Wow... that is one giant strawman.  I wonder if it is illegal to take pictures of?

/Omnivore that disagrees with how most animals in the US are raised.


It's not entirely a straw man. The people in the HSUS are crazy animal righters. They're pretty much what you'd expect PETA to be if they had money and political clout.
That being said, I'm not so trusting as to believe this bill is purely designed to protect farmers from the abuses of nutjob documentarians.
 
2013-05-11 05:14:38 PM  

Aeonite: How many ways are there to move a cow?


Lots, but I always found they'd follow me anywhere so long as I held out a handful of cow-chow for them. Place the chow on the ground and shoot the cow in the brain between the horns with a .22 while their head it down (they drop like a 1000 lb bag of jello). Butcher cow...eat tasty, tasty cow. Rinse, repeat.
 
2013-05-11 05:15:09 PM  

DON.MAC: Does the congresscritter know that rules like that can get his state's produce put on "banned for sale" lists in many countries?


[citation needed]

Not because I don't believe you, but because I'd like to see who's on one of those lists.
 
2013-05-11 05:19:17 PM  
OBEY YOUR FARMING OVERLORDS
 
2013-05-11 05:22:47 PM  
The first person prosecuted will be some tourist taking a picture of a barn.
 
2013-05-11 05:23:33 PM  

downstairs: TFA: Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

I haven't read the bill, but if the bolded part above is one of the conditions, I don't really see a problem.  I'm generally a "first ammendment above all else" guy, and animal abuse sickens me... but you still can't trespass on private property.


He didn't say it was one of the conditions, he said it could be used to prosecute those sorts of people.

That doesn't stop it from being used to prosecute other sorts of people.
 
2013-05-11 05:29:01 PM  
Pictures  = information = power.

Naturally, some people have a problem with you seizing power from them.
 
2013-05-11 05:32:53 PM  
That is quite literally the dumbest idea I've read anything about all day. Why doesn't Haluska just take the rest of this session off and let lobbyists do his entire job instead of just telling him what legislation to introduce.
 
2013-05-11 05:36:12 PM  

studebaker hoch: Pictures  = information = power.

Naturally, some people have a problem with you seizing power from them.


This is the general idea. The American multinationals (and their pet legislators) aren't interested in accountability (for themselves).
 
2013-05-11 05:36:40 PM  
I'm fairly certain the courts have already made it clear that you can take pictures of building without permission so long as you don't trespass when doing so.
 
2013-05-11 05:37:22 PM  
IIRC, a similar bill was introduced in the Florida Legislature.  Can't remember whether it passed, or not.

/Florida Tag sings, "Nobody knows, the Trouble I've Seen..."
 
2013-05-11 05:37:31 PM  

OgreMagi: I'm fairly certain the courts have already made it clear that you can take pictures of building without permission so long as you don't trespass when doing so.


Yes, but this would apply to employee whistleblowers.

That's kind of the reason people are upset about it.
 
2013-05-11 05:38:04 PM  

vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendmentabortion rights or gay marriage, it's fair game.


FTFY
 
2013-05-11 05:38:57 PM  

SoupJohnB: IIRC, a similar bill was introduced in the Florida Legislature.  Can't remember whether it passed, or not.

/Florida Tag sings, "Nobody knows, the Trouble I've Seen..."


i.ytimg.com
 
2013-05-11 05:43:01 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.
#2 In Louisiana, a church was recently ordered to stop giving out waterbecause it did not have a permit to do so.
#3 In the United States it is illegal to operate a train that does not have an "F"painted on the front.  Apparently without that "F" we all might not know where the front of the train is.
#4 In many U.S. states is it now illegal to collect rain that falls from the sky on to your own property.
#5 In America today it is illegal to milk your cow and sell the milk to your neighbor.  If you do this, there is a good chance that federal agents will raid your home at the crack of dawn.
#6 In Washington D.C. it is illegal not to recycle cat litter.
#7 It is illegal to give a tour of the monuments in Washington D.C. without a license.
#8 In the United States it is illegal to sell natural cures for cancer - even if they work.
#9 In the state of Massachusetts it is illegal to deface a milk carton.
#10 In the state of Alabama, bear wrestling is completely illegal.
#11 In Fairbanks, Alaska it is illegal to give alcoholic beverages to a moose.
#12 In Lake Elmo, Minnesota it is illegal to sell pumpkins or Christmas trees that are grown outside city limits.
#13 There is a federal law that makes it illegal to be "annoying" on the Internet.
#14 If you register with a false name on MySpace or Facebook you could potentially "spend five years in federal prison".
#15 In Hazelwood, Missouri it is illegal for little girls to sell girl scout cookies in the front yards of their own homes.
#16 All over the United States lemonade stands run by children are being shut down because they do not have the proper permits.
#17 In Florida, it is illegal to bring a plastic butter knife to school.
#18 In San Juan Capistrano, California it is illegal to hold a home Bible study without a "conditional use permit".
#19 In the city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania it is illegal to make even a single dollar from a blog unless you buy a $300 business license.

Everything Is Illegal


What was the quote "everyone is a felon" or was it something along those lines?

/people are dumb, lawmakers are dumber
//also, waiting for whistleblowers that are willing to challenge the system to come forth
///grabs popcorn
 
2013-05-11 05:45:57 PM  
meh. i'll obey OWS when they take up arms and shoot the people in power. until then i've got pizza to eat. i'm going back to my pizza and coke. pizza. pizza.
 
2013-05-11 05:46:44 PM  
If you are constantly harassed by activist filming your every activity at your farm or hunt club and filing lawsuits and keeping your business in the courts, forcing you to hire expensive lawyers to defend your business, I can see the merit of something like this.

But if I simply stop on the side of the road to take a picture of a cow or llama because I think they're cool and I get run off to jail for doing this, I can see the merit against this kind of law.

Solution: Tort reform where loser pays.   It sucks for the little guy that has to sue a big corporation with deep pockets on a legitimate injury, but stop these non-sense lawsuits that bankrupt legal businesses.

......you'll have no idea how many times I had to "Mooo, mooooo, moooo" to finally get this Longhorn to finally turn his head to look at me.
img33.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-11 05:49:05 PM  

Slappy McLongstockings: If y'all t'aint got nothin' to hide, why worry?


Is this small government in action? As in government interested in small cameras?

Or is this nanny state run amok? Whaaaaaah someone filmed my employees routinely and unnecessarily torturing animals and now I'm all butt hurt. Won't somebody please think of the farmers?

Is there some way that a woman's body can be violated in this law too? Mandatory ultrasounds for all women driving past a farm?

Okay, that last one was uncalled for. I retract it.
 
2013-05-11 05:49:50 PM  

downstairs: TFA: Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

I haven't read the bill, but if the bolded part above is one of the conditions, I don't really see a problem.  I'm generally a "first ammendment above all else" guy, and animal abuse sickens me... but you still can't trespass on private property.


The bill in question:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtT yp e=HTM&sessYr=2013&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0683&pn=0770

sub a 1 (ii) needs tweaking because it could be interpreted that any image of a farm taken from anywhere would be off-limits for posting on the internet.  But otherwise, it looks pretty constitutional to me.
 
2013-05-11 05:50:07 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: #1 One California town is actually considering making it illegal to smoke in your own backyard.


That's an urban myth. It was one dude that was pissed that his neighbor was smoking and he asked the city council to ban it. They did nothing.
 
2013-05-11 06:00:19 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Everything Is Illegal


About at the 27:10 mark a cop is being filmed and acts absolutely correct.  "My name is ---, badge number ---" etc.  If I'm going to get a ticket, that's the kind of cop I want to get it from.  We need more like that.  Good cops are far too rare.
 
2013-05-11 06:01:52 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: Ah Pennsylvania - whe it's a felony to audio/video record the police in public.

F that state.


Not any more.  Federal courts have already ruled the police have no expectation of privacy while going about their duties.
 
2013-05-11 06:03:49 PM  

Hrist: bborchar: Where's PETA when they could actually do some good?

But anyway, yeah, this won't pass muster.  You can charge someone with trespassing, and you can even sue them for libel if they publish something UNTRUE about your company- however, you CANNOT prosecute someone for publishing what goes on in your company without making them sign a contract first.  And even then, you can't get them for telling authorities that you're doing something illegal.

Sorry, but truth isn't an ultimate defense against libel/slander.  You can be found guilty of libel/slander even if what you said was true.

This whole thing came about because certain political powers that be have money in this industry and they're afraid it might not be completely clean.  The idea that it is a FELONY is absolutely retarded, because felonies were specifically meant to be for violent/dangerous/brutal people.  Like if I punch you in the face it isn't a felony.  If I take your wallet and steal your money, it may not be a felony.  If I stab you, that's a felony.  That's right...same kind of crime as taking a picture of a farm.  Yep, that's justice right there.


That's true in the UK, but in America truth is a valid defense.
 
2013-05-11 06:12:27 PM  

vudutek: make me some tea: Um, that has to be unconstitutional somewhere.

who cares? if it's not the second amendment, it's fair game.


The president has shown no regard to the constitution and the leftist sheep have proven to be ok with it.
 
2013-05-11 06:14:26 PM  

downstairs: TFA: Rep. Gary Haluska, D-Cambria, the primary sponsor of the bill, said the law would protect farmers from animal-rights activists who trespass or gain entry under false pretenses, take misleading footage, then publish it online without context.

I haven't read the bill, but if the bolded part above is one of the conditions, I don't really see a problem.  I'm generally a "first ammendment above all else" guy, and animal abuse sickens me... but you still can't trespass on private property.


If only there were existing laws on the books for tresspassing
 
2013-05-11 06:15:10 PM  

OgreMagi: Clemkadidlefark: Everything Is Illegal

About at the 27:10 mark a cop is being filmed and acts absolutely correct.  "My name is ---, badge number ---" etc.  If I'm going to get a ticket, that's the kind of cop I want to get it from.  We need more like that.  Good cops are far too rare.


that cop is in oceanside and has a phat biblical name, too.
 
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