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(CBS Sports)   MLB gives umpire Fieldin Culbreth a two game sabbatical to relearn rule 3.05(b)   (cbssports.com) divider line 56
    More: Followup, Fieldin Culbreth, Major League Baseball, Jon Heyman, umpire Fieldin, umpire, offensive team, Bill Welke, Mike Scioscia  
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2553 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 May 2013 at 9:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-11 08:00:13 AM  
I have to give MLB credit. I didn't think they'd do this and the punishment is just about right. I
 
2013-05-11 09:30:20 AM  
I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?
 
2013-05-11 09:49:54 AM  
Now they need to give Angel Hernandez a permanent sabbatical to relearn how to watch tv.
 
2013-05-11 09:55:33 AM  

Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?


You can't substitute a pitcher until he faces a batter. For the game in question, they made a pitching change, the other team put in a pinch hitter, and they tried to make another pitching change. Sadly, the head umpire and one team manager seemed to be unaware of this. Furthermore, none of the other 3 officials bothered to step up and correct the umpire.
 
2013-05-11 09:57:25 AM  

Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?


In the major leagues, if you put in a replacement pitcher, that pitcher HAS to throw at least one live pitch before the team is allowed to substitute in another pitcher.  The Astros switched pitchers, then the Angels put in a pinch hitter (who presumably had the same arm as the pitcher) so now the Astros want to switch pitchers again but the first guy they switched hadn't thrown a pitch yet.  The umpiring crew allowed this even though it's against the rules.
 
2013-05-11 09:58:46 AM  

kcoombs69: Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?

In the major leagues, if you put in a replacement pitcher, that pitcher HAS to throw at least one live pitch before the team is allowed to substitute in another pitcher.  The Astros switched pitchers, then the Angels put in a pinch hitter (who presumably had the same arm as the pitcher) so now the Astros want to switch pitchers again but the first guy they switched hadn't thrown a pitch yet.  The umpiring crew allowed this even though it's against the rules.


Heh, I just wrote this all out too and before posting I clicked refresh...
 
2013-05-11 10:15:47 AM  
Sitting down and actually reading through the MLB official rule book is a pretty painful exercise.
 
2013-05-11 10:16:28 AM  

TonyDanza: Now they need to give Angel Hernandez a permanent sabbatical to relearn how to watch tv.


Being Cuban, he probably missed out on this important part of a child's education: http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-tv-helps-build-valuable-looki n g-skills,626/
 
2013-05-11 10:43:44 AM  

kcoombs69: Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?

In the major leagues, if you put in a replacement pitcher, that pitcher HAS to throw at least one live pitch before the team is allowed to substitute in another pitcher...


Not the way I read it.  He can't just throw ball-1 and leave.  Unless I'm misinterpreting the rule, he must pitch to the batter until the at-bat is completed by the batter either making out, or reaching base.  The only exceptions are injury or illness (at the discretion of the umpire) or the side is retired on a pick-off or a 'caught stealing'.

"If the pitcher is replaced, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until the offensive team is put out, unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire-in-chief's judgment, incapacitates him for further play as a pitcher. "
 
2013-05-11 10:44:30 AM  
Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.
 
2013-05-11 10:50:25 AM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: completed by the batter either making out, or reaching base.


What a batter making out might look  like:
i39.tinypic.com

/isn't "making out" equivalent to first base?
 
2013-05-11 10:50:39 AM  

derpy: Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.


The problem is Culbreth committed an actual rule violation whereas the most you can (officially) blame on Hernandez is a "poor judgment call".
 
2013-05-11 10:54:52 AM  

The Bestest: derpy: Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.

The problem is Culbreth committed an actual rule violation whereas the most you can (officially) blame on Hernandez is a "poor judgment call".


I'd go with "arrogant asshole can't admit he was wrong."
 
2013-05-11 10:56:00 AM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: kcoombs69: Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?

In the major leagues, if you put in a replacement pitcher, that pitcher HAS to throw at least one live pitch before the team is allowed to substitute in another pitcher...

Not the way I read it.  He can't just throw ball-1 and leave.  Unless I'm misinterpreting the rule, he must pitch to the batter until the at-bat is completed by the batter either making out, or reaching base.  The only exceptions are injury or illness (at the discretion of the umpire) or the side is retired on a pick-off or a 'caught stealing'.

"If the pitcher is replaced, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until the offensive team is put out, unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire-in-chief's judgment, incapacitates him for further play as a pitcher. "


agreed.
 
2013-05-11 10:57:37 AM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: kcoombs69: Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?

In the major leagues, if you put in a replacement pitcher, that pitcher HAS to throw at least one live pitch before the team is allowed to substitute in another pitcher...

Not the way I read it.  He can't just throw ball-1 and leave.  Unless I'm misinterpreting the rule, he must pitch to the batter until the at-bat is completed by the batter either making out, or reaching base.  The only exceptions are injury or illness (at the discretion of the umpire) or the side is retired on a pick-off or a 'caught stealing'.

"If the pitcher is replaced, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until the offensive team is put out, unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire-in-chief's judgment, incapacitates him for further play as a pitcher. "


My apologies, you're correct.
 
2013-05-11 10:58:06 AM  

derpy: The Bestest: derpy: Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.

The problem is Culbreth committed an actual rule violation whereas the most you can (officially) blame on Hernandez is a "poor judgment call".

I'd go with "arrogant asshole can't admit he was wrong."


Even if Hernandez admits he was wrong, he still didn't break any rules. Therefore, no suspension.
 
2013-05-11 11:10:32 AM  

qorkfiend: Even if Hernandez admits he was wrong, he still didn't break any rules. Therefore, no suspension.


No suspension, fine.  Fired for being incompetent is what I was looking for.
 
2013-05-11 11:14:08 AM  

The Bestest: derpy: Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.

The problem is Culbreth committed an actual rule violation whereas the most you can (officially) blame on Hernandez is a "poor judgment call".


And the rule Culbreth failed to enforce is also a pretty basic and well-known rule; you can only substitute a pitcher who hasn't faced a batter if he suffers an injury during warm-ups that prevents him from pitching.
 
2013-05-11 11:28:51 AM  
Filing petitions from the dugout?  I thought there was no crying in baseball.  Quit whining and play ball, biatches.
 
2013-05-11 11:34:03 AM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: The Bestest: derpy: Yet Angel Hernandez is okie-dokie.

The problem is Culbreth committed an actual rule violation whereas the most you can (officially) blame on Hernandez is a "poor judgment call".

And the rule Culbreth failed to enforce is also a pretty basic and well-known rule; you can only substitute a pitcher who hasn't faced a batter if he suffers an injury during warm-ups that prevents him from pitching.


From my reading of the rule, it looks like the injury could occur while pitching to the batter as well.
 
2013-05-11 11:40:46 AM  
Is it just me or is 'Fielden Culbreth' exactly the kind of douchnozzle name an MLB umpire would have if you were writing one for a screenplay?
 
2013-05-11 11:55:38 AM  
I can't believe he didn't know. I knew it when I was twelve. Either he's trying to make some point or he has brain damage.
 
2013-05-11 11:57:15 AM  
Baseball fans are lucky, MLB admits when they make mistakes.  hockey refs always insist that they made the right call, or they didn't see it when video replay clearly shows them looking directly at whatever they are ignoring.
 
2013-05-11 12:04:29 PM  
Is it just me or has MLB officiating seemed more basketbally this year than normal? Usually we only see Yankees getting away with this nonsense.
 
2013-05-11 12:27:38 PM  
Umpire Fieldin Culbreth has been suspended by Major League Baseball for two games in addition to being fined for his crew -- he's the crew chief -- botching a rather obvious rule

I'm a huge baseball rules nerd, and while I was aware of this rule, it's not like he screwed up the infield fly rule or something. I'll bet anything he just lost track of whether a batter had intervened. You see pitchers coming in to face one batter (only to have that batter pinch-hit for) all the time.

By all means, call him into the office and scold him, but fines and suspensions seem a bit much. Baseball umps are pretty good at their jobs, relative to some sports' officiating, but there have to be worse offenses than this, if you need to fine and suspend people.
 
2013-05-11 12:50:24 PM  

semiotix: Umpire Fieldin Culbreth has been suspended by Major League Baseball for two games in addition to being fined for his crew -- he's the crew chief -- botching a rather obvious rule

I'm a huge baseball rules nerd, and while I was aware of this rule, it's not like he screwed up the infield fly rule or something. I'll bet anything he just lost track of whether a batter had intervened. You see pitchers coming in to face one batter (only to have that batter pinch-hit for) all the time.

By all means, call him into the office and scold him, but fines and suspensions seem a bit much. Baseball umps are pretty good at their jobs, relative to some sports' officiating, but there have to be worse offenses than this, if you need to fine and suspend people.


Why isn't there a copy of the rulebook available at each ballpark? It seems like something that you should have on hand for situations like these.

For me I wasn't sure whether the removal of the batter for a pinch hitter would allow another changing of the pitcher - so to me getting the rule wrong along those lines "well- the batter he was to face has been removed" seems like a reasonable mistake/misremembering of the "must face a batter until he is put out or reach 1st" rule.

...And one that could be remedied after 45 seconds consulting with the rule book (especially if Scosia could have brought it out with him).
 
2013-05-11 12:58:23 PM  
semiotix -

This is basic baseball strategy. You call up a left handed pinch hitter to compel a pitching change, then you switch to a right handed hitter to give your team a 10% better chance of getting a game-winning hit. It's only done when the game is on the line. It was a major ump screw-up.

I didn't read the specifics of this game. I hope I'm right.
 
2013-05-11 01:06:13 PM  
Both NFL and MLB need to change their replay review systems.  I have a feeling both were designed by people who secretly dislike replay and want it to fail and/or become unpopular.  The NHL does it right -- some guy at the league office, watching in real time, communicating the result quickly and efficiently, with no vested interest in saying whether the call on the field was right or wrong.
 
2013-05-11 01:10:22 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Sitting down and actually reading through the MLB official rule book is a pretty painful exercise.


Something tells me that reading in general is a painful exercise for you.
 
2013-05-11 01:16:02 PM  

Dear Jerk: It's only done when the game is on the line.


Well, it's only done when the game is on the line or one or both managers wants to look busy. I've seen teams thirty games back empty half their bullpens and benches in the sixth inning "playing the percentages" like that.

But re-reading the article myself, it's clear that Scioscia's protest happened while there was still time to do something about it. So yeah, I guess it was a pretty major screw-up.
 
2013-05-11 01:30:19 PM  
somewhat related-and I don't follow MLB closely so it may have been covered-can someone send Joe Torre dictionary?

in regards to the recent blown home run call, he said, after reviewing the video, the call made at the time was incorrect but it was a judgment call.

if you can make a definite call based on video after the fact, then it isn't a judgment call.

for example, when a fan reaches over the wall to catch a ball, and the umpire has to decide if the ball would have landed in or out of the field, that is a judgment call.

when an untouched ball clears the field of play, that is not a judgment call. it may be a close call, or a tough call, but that does not make it a judgment call.
 
2013-05-11 01:35:29 PM  
I would think even people who don't really follow baseball know that rule, damn.
 
2013-05-11 01:39:48 PM  
Well, it's not quite a tar-and-feathering, but I guess it'll suffice. >.>
 
2013-05-11 02:03:50 PM  

Super Chronic: Both NFL and MLB need to change their replay review systems.  I have a feeling both were designed by people who secretly dislike replay and want it to fail and/or become unpopular.  The NHL does it right -- some guy at the league office, watching in real time, communicating the result quickly and efficiently, with no vested interest in saying whether the call on the field was right or wrong.


The NHL replay system is not always right, it still allows incompetent people to insist that they didn't make a mistake when the obviously did.

Ask Brad May
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v0HSV6yIYQ

or another way the wings lost to the stars that same year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9pj2GNd_Zs
 
2013-05-11 02:05:53 PM  
Good to see the Potato Refs have new gigs.
 
2013-05-11 02:12:29 PM  

Endive Wombat: I do not watch sports, can someone put this in plain English to me please?


I know everyone's explained it to ya, but its also important to note that its a simple rule that almost every baseball *fan* knows.  So for the ump not to know this was absolutely crazy.

Its not some bizarre, arcane rule.  Nor is it a judgement call (i.e. was that pitch a ball or strike.)

I assume you also don't watch football, but its just like the 11 men on the field rule.  You can only have 11 men on the field.  Its simple... if you count 12 men on the field, its a penalty.  This would be like a team having 12 men on the field, a coach noticing it and yelling at a ref to call it, and the ref saying its ok to have 12 men on the field.
 
2013-05-11 02:16:01 PM  

semiotix: I'm a huge baseball rules nerd, and while I was aware of this rule, it's not like he screwed up the infield fly rule or something. I'll bet anything he just lost track of whether a batter had intervened. You see pitchers coming in to face one batter (only to have that batter pinch-hit for) all the time.


I think the issue is the opposing manager came out and argued it, and he still didn't enforce the rule.  Yes, any human being can forget stuff, lose track of stuff.  That's fair (sorta).  But once you're called on it, say "oops" and force the original pitcher to face the batter.

MLB umps, however, have paper-thin skins and feel like everything is "showing them up"
 
2013-05-11 02:18:52 PM  

mcmnky: when an untouched ball clears the field of play, that is not a judgment call. it may be a close call, or a tough call, but that does not make it a judgment call.

 
2013-05-11 02:20:14 PM  

Dear Jerk: I can't believe he didn't know. I knew it when I was twelve. Either he's trying to make some point or he has brain damage.


I thought this was a new rule 2 years ago. Maybe im wrong, maybe you're only 14
 
2013-05-11 02:26:02 PM  

thecpt: Dear Jerk: I can't believe he didn't know. I knew it when I was twelve. Either he's trying to make some point or he has brain damage.

I thought this was a new rule 2 years ago. Maybe im wrong, maybe you're only 14


I can't find anything that confirms that this is a new rule.
 
2013-05-11 02:27:45 PM  
i look forward to the umps blowing dozens of obvious calls this weekend in protest for this horrible indignity bestowed on their fallen brother.
 
2013-05-11 02:30:37 PM  

thecpt: Dear Jerk: I can't believe he didn't know. I knew it when I was twelve. Either he's trying to make some point or he has brain damage.

I thought this was a new rule 2 years ago. Maybe im wrong, maybe you're only 14


I think the rule was instituted back when Earl Weaver was managing.  He was a crazy tinker-er (is that a word?) when it came to managing.  He replaced a pitcher in a similar manner, and MLB put a stop to it.  If I'm correct, this would have been in the 70's.
 
2013-05-11 02:33:52 PM  

TonyDanza: Now they need to give Angel Hernandez a permanent sabbatical to relearn how to watch tv.


Being blind has never disqualified anyone from being an umpire.

In rebuttal of Peter Gammons' assertion that it was a deliberate error to protest replay, two words: Peter Gammons.
 
2013-05-11 02:56:00 PM  

Vance Uppercut: Super Chronic: Both NFL and MLB need to change their replay review systems.  I have a feeling both were designed by people who secretly dislike replay and want it to fail and/or become unpopular.  The NHL does it right -- some guy at the league office, watching in real time, communicating the result quickly and efficiently, with no vested interest in saying whether the call on the field was right or wrong.

The NHL replay system is not always right, it still allows incompetent people to insist that they didn't make a mistake when the obviously did.

Ask Brad May
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v0HSV6yIYQ

or another way the wings lost to the stars that same year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9pj2GNd_Zs


"Always right" isn't the standard I'm looking for.  "Not providing obvious incentives to get it wrong, and not incredibly cumbersome" would be just fine.
 
2013-05-11 03:58:16 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: WhoopAssWayne: Sitting down and actually reading through the MLB official rule book is a pretty painful exercise.

Something tells me that reading in general is a painful exercise for you.


Did I miss something? How did you jump to that conclusion?
 
2013-05-11 04:08:09 PM  
All this commotion is disturbing my nap.

/baseball, zzz
 
2013-05-11 05:07:54 PM  

SevenizGud: All this commotion is disturbing my nap.  /baseball, zzz


Feel free to return to your natural habitat, trolling the politics tab.  I suspect you won't be missed.  I manage to not post in threads I don't give a crap about, so it's possible.

Unless the common theme between the two is attempting to remedy the sad lack of attention you receive in real life.
 
2013-05-11 05:08:24 PM  
"provokation"? really?
 
2013-05-11 05:20:56 PM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: TonyDanza: Now they need to give Angel Hernandez a permanent sabbatical to relearn how to watch tv.

Being blind has never disqualified anyone from being an umpire.

In rebuttal of Peter Gammons' assertion that it was a deliberate error to protest replay, two words: Peter Gammons.


I think it was deliberate too. And the Angels suck.

/fAil.jpg
 
2013-05-11 05:31:59 PM  

mikemoto: I have to give MLB credit. I didn't think they'd do this and the punishment is just about right. I


He has been ranke d a bottom 5 ump by players and coaches the last few years yet continues to get work in division series games. No credit for the MLB.
 
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