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(Slate)   Tesla is the Apple of car companies. You can tell because people are already complaining that they can't replace the batteries themselves   (slate.com) divider line 140
    More: Interesting, Apple, Model S, Elon Musk, electric cars  
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2146 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 May 2013 at 3:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 02:27:12 PM
if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.
 
2013-05-10 03:03:54 PM
I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.
 
2013-05-10 03:05:26 PM
Oh WOW excellent headline
 
2013-05-10 03:09:48 PM

vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.


Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.
 
2013-05-10 03:53:58 PM

hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.


My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want
 
2013-05-10 03:56:49 PM

sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want


I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.
 
2013-05-10 03:58:17 PM

sammyk: My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.


did you get to sit inside? how was the build quality?

one of the prime advantages of not having kids is that i get to drive a BMW (a 3-series, but still...). i used to make fun of them when i was younger (porcupines, etc.) until i actually drove one. now i'm pretty much spoiled for any other vehicle. BUT if tesla were to make a $30k car that felt like a bimmer inside... i'd buy one in a heartbeat.
 
2013-05-10 03:59:43 PM

RexTalionis: sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want

I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.


Why? Most people don't go more than 200 miles a day. They go much less. They can charge at home during that huge amount of time the car spends at home. The individual charges don't have to be fast.

The super-chargers are for those long trips, and maybe a longish charge is sub optimal there, but that doesn't really hit the vast vast majority of how people really use their cars day to day.
 
2013-05-10 04:03:16 PM

LasersHurt: RexTalionis: sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want

I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.

Why? Most people don't go more than 200 miles a day. They go much less. They can charge at home during that huge amount of time the car spends at home. The individual charges don't have to be fast.

The super-chargers are for those long trips, and maybe a longish charge is sub optimal there, but that doesn't really hit the vast vast majority of how people really use their cars day to day.


My point is that you want to make the experience of owning a car as thought-free as possible so that the owners don't have to adjust their behaviors between a regular car and a Tesla. The more of an adjustment there needs to be in moving between the two cars, the greater the psychological barriers to ownership.

Also, sometimes I drive a lot. Just saying that the vast majority of people don't use their cars that way doesn't help me if I have to take a long trip.
 
2013-05-10 04:05:50 PM
Also, why are you arguing against faster charging batteries and super-capacitors? Isn't an improvement in how fast one charges a good thing?
 
2013-05-10 04:09:12 PM

RexTalionis: Also, why are you arguing against faster charging batteries and super-capacitors? Isn't an improvement in how fast one charges a good thing?


No, I'm arguing that broad-brush "the technology isn't there yet" isn't apt when when you really mean is "it doesn't suit my personal use case yet" and it's perfectly "there" for the majority of uses.
 
2013-05-10 04:09:16 PM
Walmart has installed a battery charger pump thingy across the street from my pizza shop in Flyover County, Indiana. If they put one or two at every Walmart, they'll have a lot of the country covered if the range is good.

Stupid Walmart
 
2013-05-10 04:09:34 PM

RexTalionis: I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.


I believe it's 30 minutes at a supercharger for 150 miles more of range. If you start with a full charge at home in the morning, drive over a mountain pass for the next ~250 miles at 65 mph (4-hours of driving), you take 30-minutes at a supercharger to get another 150 miles of range.

How often do you drive over 4 hours without taking a break to eat/piss? How often do you drive over 400 miles in one day?

With superchargers along the interstates, a Tesla's range and recharge performance is a perfectly viable substitue for an internal combustion car.
 
2013-05-10 04:10:52 PM

RexTalionis: sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want

I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.


Again, we're not talking about replacing the vast majority of cars with electric -- that's not feasible even if you had fast charging batteries. We're talking about replacing the minority of second cars, commuter cars and expensive luxury cars like Porsche and high end BMW/Mercedes.

Even with the current technology, that's perfectly feasible so long as enough charging stations are built out.

In order to completely replace gas cars everywhere....the electrical infrastructure in the U.S. would need to be upgraded by 100-1000x.
 
2013-05-10 04:14:02 PM
While this doesn't match with long trips, I'm perfectly pleased with the number of level 2 chargers around my metropolitian area. There's becoming so many, that even on a highly zoomed in level, they still overlap one another many blocks.

(posted in yesterday's Tesla thread):
fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net
/for long trips, we have about 60 level III chargers now along the highways of WA and Oregon
//a pair about every 30 miles.
 
2013-05-10 04:20:12 PM

FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.


www.toplessrobot.com

Hmmm, yes... Where have I heard this before?

It'll be a bit more difficult without Dr Manhattan to synthesize vast quantities of lithium, though.
 
2013-05-10 04:20:35 PM
There is one other fly in the ointment, besides the long trip problem: taxation. Those roads don't build themselves, and all of the alternatives are unpalatable.

1. Separate metering for the car charger. This would piss off the electric car owners, not to mention the enforcement issues.
2. Per-year registration tax. Unfair to those who don't drive a lot.
3. Mileage tax. Here, let us track your every move with this GPS unit. (How about no?)
3a. Mileage tax based only on odometer reading. The states get to squabble over how to divide the revenue.
4. Every road a toll road. How about no?

I still think 1 is the most equitable and least intrusive option. We pay fuel taxes for gas and diesel, after all.

Still, I want electric cars to succeed, even if they don't yet fit every use case. Each time I fill up with $4+/gallon gas I start feeling stabby.
 
2013-05-10 04:23:43 PM

Parthenogenetic: It'll be a bit more difficult without Dr Manhattan to synthesize vast quantities of lithium, though.


University of Wyoming - April 26th 2013: Newly-discovered lithium reserve could satisfy US demand for hundreds of years

"Preliminary findings from a 25-square-mile area reveal up to 228,000 tons of lithium waiting to be harnessed - more than enough to satisfy annual US demand. Under a "best-case scenario" scientists believe the promising resource could provide a total of 18 million tons of lithium. That would match global production rates for 720 years".

It looks like we now have more than enough lithium to last for quite a while . . .
 
2013-05-10 04:25:44 PM

Fubegra: 2. Per-year registration tax. Unfair to those who don't drive a lot.


It's already being done.

Seattle Dec 24th, 2013: State to charge electric-car owners $100 a year

"A section of Washington state law that takes effect next year will require electric-car owners to pay a $100 annual fee for road and highway improvements, intended to compensate for the gas taxes they no longer pay."
 
2013-05-10 04:25:45 PM

RexTalionis: My point is that you want to make the experience of owning a car as thought-free as possible so that the owners don't have to adjust their behaviors between a regular car and a Tesla. The more of an adjustment there needs to be in moving between the two cars, the greater the psychological barriers to ownership.


The gasoline experience sucks. Every week or so I've got to take a 15 minute break to fill it up, and pay through the nose for the privilege.

The electric experience for 99% of commuters is drastically better. Take 30 seconds to plug in at the end of the day, and leave with a full "tank" every morning, pay drastically less on my electric bill once a month.

With the exception of longer trips, filling up away from home once a week isn't some magical experience people are going to want to preserve for the sake of consistency.
 
2013-05-10 04:26:09 PM
I regularly take long trips around California.

The only way for me to have one of these would be to own one for a daily driver (I live only 5 minutes from work, so the daily commute is not a problem) but then also have an internal combustion car for long weekend trips.

The total cost of ownership for both cars makes it not really attractive, when one can just get one nice IC engine car that does both.

In any case, it's way over my budget range for a car in general.   I saw a lot of them last time I was in the bay area.  It was indeed a very nice looking car.   The weird part was the giant LCD display replacing the center dash area where you'd normally find the radio and AC control, cupholders etc.

My last car cost me $13k brand new after a bunch of rebates, gets 30 MPG highway, and is paid for.

The next car will be something turbocharged and fun, perhaps the last great hurrah for the IC engine and reasonably priced gas.
 
2013-05-10 04:30:55 PM
I got to ride shotgun in a buddy's Tesla Model S a few days after he got it.  I still have an erection.
 
2013-05-10 04:31:22 PM

harlock: I regularly take long trips around California.

The only way for me to have one of these would be to own one for a daily driver (I live only 5 minutes from work, so the daily commute is not a problem) but then also have an internal combustion car for long weekend trips.

The total cost of ownership for both cars makes it not really attractive, when one can just get one nice IC engine car that does both.

In any case, it's way over my budget range for a car in general.   I saw a lot of them last time I was in the bay area.  It was indeed a very nice looking car.   The weird part was the giant LCD display replacing the center dash area where you'd normally find the radio and AC control, cupholders etc.

My last car cost me $13k brand new after a bunch of rebates, gets 30 MPG highway, and is paid for.

The next car will be something turbocharged and fun, perhaps the last great hurrah for the IC engine and reasonably priced gas.


I suspect the Nissan Leaf may be something you'll replace your commuter car with. With tax rebates, it's somewhere along ~18k, brand new. Leasing is about 250/mo with about ~2k down.
 
2013-05-10 04:46:23 PM

FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.


Because most Americans can afford $30k for a car...
 
2013-05-10 04:52:55 PM

FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.


Combine that with the advances in self driving vehicles and the faster than anyone's craziest dreams drop in the price of solar and you've got the makings of a transportation industry revolution.
 
2013-05-10 04:52:59 PM

RexTalionis: My point is that you want to make the experience of owning a car as thought-free as possible so that the owners don't have to adjust their behaviors between a regular car and a Tesla. The more of an adjustment there needs to be in moving between the two cars, the greater the psychological barriers to ownership.


Thank God you're trying to argue the point with logic here rather than the threadstorm of dumbfarkery we had to sit through in yesterday's Tesla thread.
 
2013-05-10 04:53:13 PM
I almost hate to compare them. Its obvious that the design concepts started on different planets. Also this was the model s with all the options so its a 100k car and it had that feel. The giant touchscreen dominates the front seat in a good way.

All the batteries line the floorboards. That puts the center of gravity so low its almost not fair. Didn't get to drive but the ride felt rock solid. Pretty muchwhat you exexpect from a European lux sedan. The torque is mind blowing. I drive a charger srt8 and the tesla is faster.
 
2013-05-10 04:55:39 PM

LasersHurt: RexTalionis: sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want

I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.

Why? Most people don't go more than 200 miles a day. They go much less. They can charge at home during that huge amount of time the car spends at home. The individual charges don't have to be fast.

The super-chargers are for those long trips, and maybe a longish charge is sub optimal there, but that doesn't really hit the vast vast majority of how people really use their cars day to day.


I have long commute (about 80miles total) so an electric with a range of 150miles would be plenty to get to work and back and make stops along the way if needed. In the $30k range i'd be in like Flynt.
 
2013-05-10 04:57:24 PM

FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.


Inductive charging baby. It's the way....

spectrum.ieee.org
 
2013-05-10 04:58:15 PM

indarwinsshadow: FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.

Inductive charging baby. It's the way....

[spectrum.ieee.org image 850x678]


whoa.
 
2013-05-10 04:59:03 PM

plcow: FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.

Because most Americans can afford $30k for a car...


the average price of a new car in america is $30k.
 
2013-05-10 04:59:16 PM

indarwinsshadow: Inductive charging baby. It's the way....


That's so crazy it just might work.
 
2013-05-10 05:03:47 PM

Tumunga: Walmart has installed a battery charger pump thingy across the street from my pizza shop in Flyover County, Indiana. If they put one or two at every Walmart, they'll have a lot of the country covered if the range is good.

Stupid Walmart


If they put one in every Walgreen's here they would have one on damn near every other main street in any direction
 
2013-05-10 05:05:54 PM
What I want

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

tesla model s


What I can afford

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Mitsubishi imiev
 
2013-05-10 05:08:34 PM
Put the inductive chargers into the road surface and I'm sold.   I want to hit those things at highway speeds and keep on going.

The more inductive charging road sections you have, the smaller the battery you need to get between them.
 
2013-05-10 05:15:22 PM
I can't change the gas tank in a combustion car either... I don't see the problem with that.
 
2013-05-10 05:21:38 PM

studebaker hoch: Put the inductive chargers into the road surface and I'm sold. I want to hit those things at highway speeds and keep on going.


I'm sure keener minds than mine have already worked this out, but you could have sections of highway dedicated to recharging and you could be billed through a credit card like the SpeedPass toll system. You wouldn't need to stop to recharge and the state could get their squeeze instead of a gasoline tax. That would be pretty flippin' sweet.
 
2013-05-10 05:22:08 PM

imgod2u: In order to completely replace gas cars everywhere....the electrical infrastructure in the U.S. would need to be upgraded by 100-1000x.


An interesting  premise. Let's do the math...
The peak daily gasoline consumption is about 9M bbls and that occurs in August which is also a peak for electricity.
There are 43 US gallons in a barrel, so 387M gallons.
Average US car mileage is 21 mpg - so that works out to 8.127 billion miles.
EVs get about 3-4 miles per KWh (lets call it 3.5 miles) so to replace all of that gasoline with electricity would require a daily power increase of 2.322 billion KWh or about 97 million KW of additional capacity on average (probably a little more, let's round up to 100M KW or 100GW of additional capacity.
Current US generating capacity is now over 1TW.

So replacing ALL gasoline (not diesel) automobiles with EVs would require at least a 10% increase in electricity generation. That's it.

That could be done by building 25 large nuclear reactors.
 
2013-05-10 05:22:09 PM

vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.


I saw one at the movie theater a few weeks ago, I'd drive it, if I could fit in it
 
2013-05-10 05:23:33 PM

Doogled: I got to ride shotgun in a buddy's Tesla Model S a few days after he got it. I still have an erection.


You might want to see a doctor about that
 
2013-05-10 05:25:18 PM

vernonFL: Mitsubishi imiev


that's kind of cute.
 
2013-05-10 05:27:55 PM
I do not normally drool over car design (well, not where anyone can see me, anyway,) but the Tesla Model S is so freakin' cool. It's fancy as a gay peacock threesome, yet it manages to carry seven people, has room for groceries, is by all accounts really fun to drive and it's an electric.

Someday, Tesla will make a car that I can afford and then charging-infrastructure-be-damned, I am getting one.

/now if they could kindly license the aesthetics to Revell or offer the pieces to 3D-print so I might build a tiny Model S for my desk in the meantime, that would be super.
//I might make a few of them, actually, plus some Tesla Roadsters, and some little EV-1s, Volts and Nissan Leafs just for contrast. Then I can pose them around the little Baker Electric I made with the tiny suffragette sash and Alice Paul hat resting on the seat and it will look like the electric cars are visiting their Grandma. I do not need desk space all that badly.
 
2013-05-10 05:30:28 PM
madgonad:
So replacing ALL gasoline (not diesel) automobiles with EVs would require at least a 10% increase in electricity generation. That's it.

Don't forget the other option - a 11% reduction in current use.
Or split it 50/50 between the two.

The glass isn't half empty, it's 3/4 full.
 
2013-05-10 05:30:59 PM

indarwinsshadow: FlashHarry: if they truly can make a $30k car and get charging stations everywhere, the internal combustion engine is dead.

Inductive charging baby. It's the way....

[spectrum.ieee.org image 850x678]


I thought there'd have been more, but all i found from a quick Google search was these guys
 http://www.pluglesspower.com/
 
2013-05-10 05:36:19 PM

jaybeezey: LasersHurt: RexTalionis: sammyk: hoots_toot_ochaye: vernonFL: I saw one of the new 4 door sedans on the road here yesterday - they are rare here, this is the first Tesla I've seen outside of California - and it is a beautiful car.

Saw a Model S on the road here in the Vancouver, BC, area a couple of weeks ago, and will wholeheartedly back you up on it being a beautiful car.  I traveled behind, and then beside it for a substantial distance.

My in-laws neighbor has one. He knows I am a car guy and couldn't wait to show it off. Just WOW! Get the charging infrastructure in place and BMW, Mercedes, etc are in big trouble. It's every bit as nice as a 700 series BMW and performs better than my SRT8.

/daddy want

I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.

Why? Most people don't go more than 200 miles a day. They go much less. They can charge at home during that huge amount of time the car spends at home. The individual charges don't have to be fast.

The super-chargers are for those long trips, and maybe a longish charge is sub optimal there, but that doesn't really hit the vast vast majority of how people really use their cars day to day.

I have long commute (about 80miles total) so an electric with a range of 150miles would be plenty to get to work and back and make stops along the way if needed. In the $30k range i'd be in like Flynt.


I think its an interesting decision for guys like you. You have an idea in your head on what your willing to pay for a car. but when you start doing the math on it you can afford a whole lot more car. Your driving 400 miles a week just for work, not to mention all the other misc driving most people do. I bet you do around 2000/miles/month. Now factor in that you could realisticly reduce that fuel cost to %15-25 of what it was before. That's a whole lot of extra money in your pocket.

I work from home so the mileage thing doesn't come into the equation for me. May change someday, but....

But if I knew I would be having that much more left in my pocket every month I'd probably get more car to start with. Or start drinking much better scotch.
 
2013-05-10 05:37:10 PM

fatbear: madgonad:
So replacing ALL gasoline (not diesel) automobiles with EVs would require at least a 10% increase in electricity generation. That's it.

Don't forget the other option - a 11% reduction in current use.
Or split it 50/50 between the two.

The glass isn't half empty, it's 3/4 full.


Yeah, I could have mentioned that gasoline usage has been in decline for several years now, but I didn't want to make that point. I just wanted to be crystal clear that there isn't much of a barrier to telling the Middle East, Mexico, Russia, Canada, Texas, and North Dakota to Fark Off. We could do this if we wanted to. We have plenty of Lithium. Plenty of Thorium. Loads of solar and wind to exploit. Just think how many jobs we could create and how much we could save on our trade imbalance.

We had a $539B trade deficit in 2012. $390B of that was oil. Just saying....
 
2013-05-10 05:39:20 PM

RexTalionis: I don't think the technology is there yet. It still takes far too long to charge, even if it's only an hour or so at the superchargers. There are battery technologies and super-capacitor technologies where an 80% charge can be obtained in 5-10 minutes. The electric car will be a viable substitute for the internal combustion car then, not before.


There are two other threads, one in the Business tab and one in the Geek tab, which will explain in excruciating depth why you are wrong.
 
2013-05-10 05:41:56 PM

sammyk: But if I knew I would be having that much more left in my pocket every month I'd probably get more car to start with. Or start drinking much better scotch.


Here's how the math breaks down for my personal energy expenditures.
fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net

fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net

Factoring in my $199 a month lease on the LEAF (along with ~$25 a month insurance) - it's pretty much a wash. But instead of driving a 8 year old vehicle, I get to drive a brand new one.
 
2013-05-10 05:43:52 PM
Supercapacitors are not necessary.  Inductive chargers are not necessary.  Current batteries can charge at 3C if someone just builds the chargers.  This means a 250-300 mile pack will charge faster than you can piss and eat on long trips.  For specific numbers, see my posts in the Business tab tread.
 
2013-05-10 05:45:51 PM

madgonad: Yeah, I could have mentioned that gasoline usage has been in decline for several years now, but I didn't want to make that point. I just wanted to be crystal clear that there isn't much of a barrier to telling the Middle East, Mexico, Russia, Canada, Texas, and North Dakota to Fark Off. We could do this if we wanted to. We have plenty of Lithium. Plenty of Thorium. Loads of solar and wind to exploit. Just think how many jobs we could create and how much we could save on our trade imbalance.


Don't forget the untapped geothermal at the Yellowstone hotspot. It's really annoying, if you ask me. There's absolutely no reason to ransom our energy independence to foreign nations and yet if you talk about re-engineering our grid and energy mix to fully utilize North American energy sources people start calling you an unAmerican tree-hugging commie bastard or some damn thing.
 
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