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(BBC)   "Halal" school cafeteria burger found to be 50% pork, surprising many that it contained any actual meat at all   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 382
    More: Sick, Leicester City Council, Doncaster, halal meat  
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8566 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 1:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



382 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-05-10 11:39:15 AM  
I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.
 
2013-05-10 11:40:07 AM  
People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.
 
2013-05-10 11:43:45 AM  
At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.
 
2013-05-10 11:46:07 AM  
It was all a lie!  They've been swinedled!
 
2013-05-10 11:48:32 AM  
I'm guessing Halality did not ensue.
 
2013-05-10 11:48:33 AM  
More like 'Ha! lol' burgers, amirite?
 
2013-05-10 11:59:55 AM  
i.imgur.com

You should have seen the beverages they were handing out.
 
2013-05-10 12:00:15 PM  
deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-10 12:00:50 PM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 276x260]

You should have seen the beverages they were handing out.


Soooooo glad I went with the meat, therefore, no fist hath be shaken
 
2013-05-10 12:01:22 PM  
Sure, but we're talking about one charmin' motherfarkin' pig.
 
2013-05-10 12:04:41 PM  

Sybarite: Sure, but we're talking about one charmin' motherfarkin' pig.


i.imgur.com

Musta been 10 times as charming as that Arnold on Green Acres.

/ "Arnold Ziffel's Halal Butcher" is the name of my next band.
 
2013-05-10 12:13:04 PM  

Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.


It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.
 
2013-05-10 12:22:19 PM  
Well that's just offal
 
2013-05-10 12:24:40 PM  

Notabunny: It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.


Yeah, the mistake thing I don't buy, but frankly I don't think it's out of hatred either. Usually these things happen for one reason and one reason only: more profit.

'Oh you want these specifications, sure? I'm gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'
 
2013-05-10 12:27:19 PM  

NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.


It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.
 
2013-05-10 12:33:06 PM  
UK meat that doesn't contain Horse?  WTF?
 
2013-05-10 12:34:28 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

"There's quite a bit of meat in these gym mats"
 
2013-05-10 12:39:14 PM  

Tatsuma: Notabunny: It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.

Yeah, the mistake thing I don't buy, but frankly I don't think it's out of hatred either. Usually these things happen for one reason and one reason only: more profit.

'Oh you want these specifications, sure? I'm gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'


I agree.  I think the cafeteria would have been better off with a non-prophet supplier.
 
2013-05-10 12:40:09 PM  
More testicles means more iron
 
2013-05-10 12:42:44 PM  

nekom: It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there. Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat. Neither horse nor pork will kill you. But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.


If you want to make sure that the meat you are buying is 100% beef or something similar, you just need to find a butcher that sells meat under reputable Kosher supervision. No way you will be getting horse or pork or anything like that.
 
2013-05-10 12:44:22 PM  

nekom: Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.


i.imgur.com

Does Not Approve
 
2013-05-10 12:45:06 PM  
If it was hatred, they'd just stick in a tiny, tiny amount. Something barely detectable that they'd be able to say was an error if they got caught. But until then, they'd be stickin' it to the Moose Limbs without anyone knowing.

Fully half being pork? That's gotta be either ignorance, or a farkup.
 
2013-05-10 12:48:23 PM  
FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.
 
2013-05-10 12:52:35 PM  
That's a pretty horrible thing to do your fellow human being. However:

shifty lookin bleeder: More like 'Ha! lol' burgers, amirite?


This is the funniest damn thing I've read in a week.
 
2013-05-10 12:59:24 PM  
Burgers at school? That's a good lesson to be teaching future lard-asses.
 
2013-05-10 12:59:56 PM  

SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


But mislabeling product is a crime in the UK. He's invoking the religious angle to show the consequences of the crime.
 
2013-05-10 01:01:10 PM  

SphericalTime: Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


Could easily see it fall under hate crimes, harassment, etc..
 
2013-05-10 01:06:00 PM  
When I was in school, the food was barely edible, much less halal or kosher
 
2013-05-10 01:11:18 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: When I was in school, the food was barely edible, much less halal or kosher


School lunches taught me that textured soy protein used as a filler in chili and hot dogs and hamburgers, etc. will cause me to go into anaphylactic shock. School lunches also taught me how to use an epipen. Good days. Good days.
 
2013-05-10 01:12:20 PM  

Notabunny: School lunches taught me that textured soy protein used as a filler in chili and hot dogs and hamburgers, etc. will cause me to go into anaphylactic shock. School lunches also taught me how to use an epipen. Good days. Good days.


Pam?
 
2013-05-10 01:13:33 PM  
i.imgur.com
one... last....bite.....
 
2013-05-10 01:13:54 PM  
THIS IS A SNOUTRAGE!
 
2013-05-10 01:15:03 PM  

SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


Mislabeling interstate commerce with the intent to defraud seems criminal to me.
 
2013-05-10 01:15:56 PM  
Mr Guy: interstate

Bah, It's Brits in'nit?
 
2013-05-10 01:16:30 PM  
I find Halal and Kosher chicken to be of very good quality.
 
2013-05-10 01:17:48 PM  

Tatsuma: SphericalTime: Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

Could easily see it fall under hate crimes, harassment, etc..


That's what I was thinking.
Somebody had to intentionally let this go out.
 
2013-05-10 01:18:50 PM  
Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...
 
2013-05-10 01:19:23 PM  
Might as well get the obligatory image posted...

i195.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-10 01:20:14 PM  
If god dictates your diet, then maybe you should pack your own lunch.
 
2013-05-10 01:20:55 PM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...


Therefore, fark them for wanting to abide by it while not forcing you to abide by them?

forums.watchuseek.com
 
2013-05-10 01:20:59 PM  
i3.ytimg.com
"Looks like pork, Randy!"



/Obscure?
 
2013-05-10 01:21:26 PM  

BKITU: That's a pretty horrible thing to do your fellow human being. However:

shifty lookin bleeder: More like 'Ha! lol' burgers, amirite?

This is the funniest damn thing I've read in a week.


That and This...

Diogenes: THIS IS A SNOUTRAGE!

 
2013-05-10 01:21:41 PM  
Uterbraten?
 
2013-05-10 01:22:10 PM  
I have to drive all the way to Kemah and go to Tookie's to get a burger like that and they get then in school!
 
2013-05-10 01:22:40 PM  

Tatsuma: Notabunny: It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.

Yeah, the mistake thing I don't buy, but frankly I don't think it's out of hatred either. Usually these things happen for one reason and one reason only: more profit.

'Oh you want these specifications, sure? I'm gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'


No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.
 
2013-05-10 01:23:35 PM  
Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."

What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?
 
2013-05-10 01:24:08 PM  

KiltedBastich: No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.


To clarify, yes, I know this is the UK. This was presented as a hypothetical.
 
2013-05-10 01:24:59 PM  

Nabb1: I'm guessing Halality did not ensue.


shifty lookin bleeder: More like 'Ha! lol' burgers, amirite?


I can't decided which one I like more.....
 
2013-05-10 01:25:08 PM  

KiltedBastich: No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.


... you know you're obsessed when you blame the Tea Party for something that happened in England.
 
2013-05-10 01:25:09 PM  
So if it was goat meat, nobody would care?
 
2013-05-10 01:25:16 PM  
Hog. Anus. Lamb. Anus. Lentils.  HALAL.
 
2013-05-10 01:25:30 PM  

Soygen: If god dictates your diet, then maybe you should pack your own lunch.


How dare you bring common sense into this debate

/are you new here?
 
2013-05-10 01:25:54 PM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...


I may be totally off base here.  But for some reform Jews I know it's more about fidelity to God's rules.  They don't have to make sense or be practical.

I think there's a dude in the Old Testament who tried to steady the Arc of the Covenant so it wouldn't fall during transport.  God smote him good, because you don't touch it.  His intentions were good, but he still broke the rules.

Tats would know better.
 
2013-05-10 01:25:55 PM  

NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

www.topito.com

 
2013-05-10 01:26:15 PM  

Tatsuma: If you want to make sure that the meat you are buying is 100% beef or something similar, you just need to find a butcher that sells meat under reputable Kosher supervision. No way you will be getting horse or pork or anything like that.


Yes, because kosher butchers and stores never sub in non-kosher products to make a buck....

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2013/04/04/3123556/kosher-scandals-l ik e-doheny-rare-but-not-unheard-of
 
2013-05-10 01:26:34 PM  
The products were made by Doncaster-based Paragon Quality Foods Limited, which said it had never knowingly bought or handled pork.

"That's lamb there, right? RIGHT? It looks like lamb to me. No don't show me the invoice or bill of lading, I'm sure it's lamb. Hey Phil, put this here lamb in the lamb grinder, and make lamb burgers out of it, okay?"
 
2013-05-10 01:26:54 PM  

Mr Guy: SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

Mislabeling interstate commerce with the intent to defraud seems criminal to me.


UK has interstate commerce laws?
 
2013-05-10 01:27:23 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well that's just offal


shifty lookin bleeder:

I agree.  I think the cafeteria would have been better off with a non-prophet supplier.

Y'all are killin me!!!!
 
2013-05-10 01:28:06 PM  
HaLOL
 
2013-05-10 01:28:27 PM  

special20: So if it was goat meat, nobody would care?


If it was halal goat meat, nobody would care indeed.

Diogenes: I may be totally off base here. But for some reform Jews I know it's more about fidelity to God's rules. They don't have to make sense or be practical.

I think there's a dude in the Old Testament who tried to steady the Arc of the Covenant so it wouldn't fall during transport. God smote him good, because you don't touch it. His intentions were good, but he still broke the rules.

Tats would know better.


It is said that Shlomo HaMelech (King Solomon) understood 300 different reasons for all the commandments in the Torah. Except for the Red Heifer, which just stumped him. In the end his conclusion was very simple:

We might understand many reasons for the various commandments that G-d gave us, but ultimately we do them because we were commanded to, not because it makes sense to our rational minds. Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.
 
2013-05-10 01:28:55 PM  
Couldn't just shut your halal-hole, huh?
 
2013-05-10 01:29:15 PM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...


There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick
 
2013-05-10 01:29:41 PM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Yes, because kosher butchers and stores never sub in non-kosher products to make a buck....


Notice I said 'reputable'. These things sadly do happen, but they are extremely rare.
 
2013-05-10 01:29:42 PM  
That lamb could have been sexually assaulted.
 
2013-05-10 01:30:45 PM  
Those poor children are now condemned to Hell through no fault of their own.  Since they never ate pork, how would they be able to tell it was pork?

Dietary laws are a throwback.  I have respect for the substance of most religious practices, but unless it is related to religious ceremony, it is not something I do not respect too much.
 
2013-05-10 01:31:56 PM  

Tatsuma: 'Im gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'


THIS is what it (and all the other meat 'scandals' of late, are all about. The companies outsource for cheaper supplies (especially in the wake of economic strife), and smaller, cheaper (Eastern Bloc) companies end up winning national contracts because their quotes are hundreds of thousands of dollars cheaper for the year's supply than their western-goverened competition can (who adhere to well policed EU cross-contamination laws)

The current burgeoning market for Eastern Bloc labour here in Sweden is meaning that many lo)cal, educated, traders are feeling the pinch, and many building jobs are being slapped down anyoldhow, sometimes leading to massive repairs or even demolition-and-restart projects.

/have had 2nd hand experience in the matter
 
2013-05-10 01:32:01 PM  
loopingsheep.files.wordpress.com

HALAL 9000
i'm sorry dave.  but the q'ran states that pork is not kosher
 
2013-05-10 01:32:13 PM  
May the Pork be with you. Imam gonna tell my mom
 
2013-05-10 01:32:14 PM  

rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,


For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

rev. dave: it is not something I do not respect too much.


So you do respect it?
 
2013-05-10 01:32:42 PM  
HALALALALALALALALA!
 
2013-05-10 01:33:16 PM  

cwolf20: May the Pork be with you. Imam gonna tell my mom


The second part of that I blame on decongestants and the sausage I will partake of in a few minutes
 
2013-05-10 01:33:59 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.


They're serving donkey too?
 
2013-05-10 01:34:26 PM  
Wonder how long before the first beheading?
 
2013-05-10 01:34:37 PM  

Tatsuma: Notabunny: It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.

Yeah, the mistake thing I don't buy, but frankly I don't think it's out of hatred either. Usually these things happen for one reason and one reason only: more profit.

'Oh you want these specifications, sure? I'm gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'


You're probably right in this case.

Pork price trends

Lamb price trends

In December 2012, pork was at 80 cents/pound and lamb was at 88.  In March 2013, lamb's at 98 and pork's at 76.

Somebody couldn't or wouldn't absorb the extra cost needed to keep using straight lamb.
 
2013-05-10 01:35:01 PM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...


Modern world
 
2013-05-10 01:35:14 PM  

Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.


Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.
 
2013-05-10 01:35:45 PM  
spooks and vudu.
Shut up and eat it.
there's kids starving in ethiopia.
frikking skyking wanks.
 
2013-05-10 01:35:48 PM  

special20: So if it was goat meat, nobody would care?


Mmm, goat burgers.
 
2013-05-10 01:36:04 PM  
While religious dietary restrictions are mostly silly, it doesn't mean you can do this.
 
2013-05-10 01:36:15 PM  

Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick


But none of these religions forbid eating chicken, despite chicken carrying salmonella that is far more likely to make you sick than pork.
 
2013-05-10 01:36:48 PM  
Meanwhile no one gives a shiat that just about any seafood your order at a restaurant is mislabeled, which has been documented over and over again.
 
2013-05-10 01:38:04 PM  
So how do you sue somebody for sending you to imaginary afterlife place with hot climate?
 
2013-05-10 01:38:08 PM  

Notabunny: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.


Sounds more like cutting lamb meat with pork would reduce costs. Probably the same reason why there is horse meat masquerading as beef. And why cheese manufacturers include cellulose in their cheeses. The people who make those decisions are probably too greedy to care about hate.
 
2013-05-10 01:38:35 PM  
Is Horse meat Hala?

I'll bet if the lamb burgers contained horse meat instead of pork we would not hear much outrage from the muslims.   But we wouldn't be able to hear them over the outrage of the non-muslims.
 
2013-05-10 01:38:52 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.


So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.
 
2013-05-10 01:39:17 PM  

cwolf20: Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.

They're serving donkey too?


Yes.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horse-meat-scandal-donkey-meat- 17 13934
 
2013-05-10 01:39:25 PM  

farkeruk: Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick

But none of these religions forbid eating chicken, despite chicken carrying salmonella that is far more likely to make you sick than pork.


Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.
 
2013-05-10 01:39:35 PM  

Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

rev. dave: it is not something I do not respect too much.

So you do respect it?


My tricky double negative was caught.

It depends....
Jains do not eat meat.  That is fine.
Jews -  do not eat pork, meat and cheese together, some do not use the same utensils for dairy and meat, no shellfish or fish without scales - it can go really overboard
Muslims are generally not eating pork AFAIK - seems simple enough unless they get the extended version like Jews.
Hindus do not eat beef, some don't eat pork either
Buddhists usually avoid meat depending on the sect and level of devotion
Catholics avoid meat on Fridays during lent
7th day Adventists do not eat meat

See it gets way out of hand when you avoid more than 1 kind of thing.  How can you take them all seriously?
 
2013-05-10 01:39:40 PM  

Tatsuma: KiltedBastich: No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.

... you know you're obsessed when you blame the Tea Party for something that happened in England.


Never ascribe to obsession that which can be explained by mere stupidity.
 
2013-05-10 01:40:07 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: Is Horse meat Hala?


Halal has to do not only with the animal, but how it was slaughtered. It has to be done with a special prayer and knife that qualifies according to Sharia. It's not just a question of animal swapping, beef can be halal and it can be haram (forbidden)
 
2013-05-10 01:40:27 PM  
Wait, I though that as long as it was blessed by a high priestess that they were no longer allergic to it... Is that right? I can never keep these retarded religions straight.
 
2013-05-10 01:40:34 PM  
Which makes zero sense since lambs have hooves, I know.  But some people give "That" as the reason why they don't eat pork
 
2013-05-10 01:40:43 PM  
i1180.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-10 01:40:54 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.


Why? Wasn't the meat perfectly safe?
 
2013-05-10 01:41:12 PM  

Tatsuma: RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...

Therefore, fark them for wanting to abide by it while not forcing you to abide by them?

[forums.watchuseek.com image 321x360]


Archaic religious restrictions aside, I think we can all agree that it would be nice if when we ate stuff, it was actually what we thought we were eating.

A DNA test found the burger contained between 10 and 50% pork.
Why even quote the number with a range that big? Burger also contained between 0 and 110% unicorn.
 
2013-05-10 01:41:39 PM  
No no no, let me explain. These "Halal" burgers must have come from Hungary, where the word "halal" means "death". Pork or no pork, they are just what their name implies, death burgers. Frankly, those kids are lucky if they are not dead yet.
 
2013-05-10 01:41:57 PM  

cwolf20: Which makes zero sense since lambs have hooves, I know.  But some people give "That" as the reason why they don't eat pork


It's not just hooves, it's having split hooves and chewing the cud. And it's a specific splitting as well, same goes for the way the cud is chewed.
 
2013-05-10 01:42:11 PM  
Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!
 
2013-05-10 01:42:42 PM  
i1180.photobucket.com
Yeah, way to go guys!
 
2013-05-10 01:43:18 PM  

SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


Fraud?  Misrepresenting one product for another?  Depending on the jurisdiction you might be able to call that criminal.  Not for violating a religious belief, but for willfully mislabeling a product and advertising something as having traits (such as being halal) that it doesn't have.
 
2013-05-10 01:43:22 PM  

Loucifer: Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!


You mean they won't get 72 pre-pubescent girls to rape?!
 
2013-05-10 01:43:27 PM  
So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?
 
2013-05-10 01:43:42 PM  

farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?


Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.
 
2013-05-10 01:44:24 PM  

cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.


So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:25 PM  

Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony


I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:40 PM  

Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.


Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:52 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


Kosher salt is actually just the dandruff swept up off of Boca Raton bingo hall floors.
 
2013-05-10 01:45:51 PM  

farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


Trichonosis'd be my guess.  People got seriously ill from eating undercooked pig so they took it as a sign from God that they shouldn't.

/can anyone confirm/deny?
 
2013-05-10 01:46:04 PM  

iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?


The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.
 
2013-05-10 01:46:39 PM  
Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.

Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.
 
2013-05-10 01:47:25 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


It's the kind of salt used in the kashering process - good at drawing out blood from proto-steaks.

// anything with any kind of blood in it ain't kosher
 
2013-05-10 01:47:37 PM  

Tatsuma: Therefore, fark them for wanting to abide by it while not forcing you to abide by them?


Laws on cruelty to animals should apply regardless of religion. Kosher and halal slaughtering practices would both result in prison time for anyone not dusted in magic woo-woo powder.
 
2013-05-10 01:47:58 PM  

rev. dave: Muslims are generally not eating pork AFAIK - seems simple enough unless they get the extended version like Jews.


Muslims also don't consume alcohol.   While more moderate Muslims just take that to mean not having wine, beer or liquor, there are plenty of Muslims who extend that to cooking with anything that has any alcohol in it at all in even trace amounts.  No vanilla extract.  No cooking wines.  No alcoholic beverages used for flavorings (Bourbon Chicken and beer-battered onion rings are right out).
 
2013-05-10 01:49:04 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: Is Horse meat Hala?

I'll bet if the lamb burgers contained horse meat instead of pork we would not hear much outrage from the muslims.   But we wouldn't be able to hear them over the outrage of the non-muslims.


A quick google search shows that is not Halal.

rev. dave: Those poor children are now condemned to Hell through no fault of their own.  Since they never ate pork, how would they be able to tell it was pork?

AFAIK, if someone gives you something saying its Halal, it becomes Halal to you, and if it is not, fault goes to whoever gave it to you. Whoever ate them has no responsibility. Again, AFAIK, only Hindu religion has a different perspective on this. You are doomed even if you eat beef unknowingly. You have not go through a process of repent.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:17 PM  

traylor: No no no, let me explain. These "Halal" burgers must have come from Hungary, where the word "halal" means "death". Pork or no pork, they are just what their name implies, death burgers. Frankly, those kids are lucky if they are not dead yet.


Monty Python (probably a mangling of scenes, but meh. Haven't seen it in years):  "Bring out your dead"  "I'm not dead yet"
 
2013-05-10 01:49:21 PM  
He won't eat it he hates everything. Hey Achmed!! He Likes It
 
2013-05-10 01:49:24 PM  

Silverstaff: SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

Fraud?  Misrepresenting one product for another?  Depending on the jurisdiction you might be able to call that criminal.  Not for violating a religious belief, but for willfully mislabeling a product and advertising something as having traits (such as being halal) that it doesn't have.


+1.  Definitely prosecute them for fraud.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:25 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


 I thought he spit on it. The higher the loogie arc, the greater the blessing God bestows on his creation.

/surely, Sherman my dear boy, you've heard...of...the arc of the covenant,,,
/okay....let's see...bags packed...window seat...kosher meal...okay...off to hell...
 
2013-05-10 01:49:40 PM  

MaxxLarge: If it was hatred, they'd just stick in a tiny, tiny amount. Something barely detectable that they'd be able to say was an error if they got caught. But until then, they'd be stickin' it to the Moose Limbs without anyone knowing.

Fully half being pork? That's gotta be either ignorance, or a farkup.


You assume someone assholeish enough to deliberately do something like this would think that far ahead.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:47 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


As God created the world, he could have just explained it "hey guys, there's a thing in pork that might kill you. Make sure you cook it right the way through, OK?"

There's nothing in the bible about fugu, despite the fact that god stuck it in the ocean.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:54 PM  
I don't have restrictions except the Catholic thing during Lent, and that tends to be more of a guideline in my house because we're not all that devout. I didn't flagellate myself if I forget (I'm using the word in the religious sense, you wankers).

I respect other traditions, though. in reality, anyway, and not necessarily on the internet. I wouldn't serve meat to a vegetarian, nor pork to a Jew or Muslim. just a respect thing.

over the internet? all y'all gone to hell bra.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:14 PM  

Tatsuma: We might understand many reasons for the various commandments that G-d gave us, but ultimately we do them because we were commanded to, not because it makes sense to our rational minds. Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.


That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

It's the dishonest ones who try to claim that there is any evidence.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:26 PM  
Someone is losing a head over this.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:58 PM  
Approves.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Loucifer: Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!

You mean they won't get 72 pre-pubescent girls to rape?!


Considering the alternative is "have" I'd say they probably could get 72 of them to commit the act of rape on an equal number of males just to protect themselves from the alternative.  Or did you really intend to say "You mean they won't receive"
 
2013-05-10 01:51:16 PM  
It would solve most of the world's problems if religious people would just stop eating.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:33 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


Kosher salt is called that way because it's a salt that is used for kashering meat, not because it is kosher in itself. Salt alone is kosher by default.

Dr Dreidel: I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?


More or less, yes. Not just the Tanya, either.

For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.

Dr Dreidel: // do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?


I believe in certain situations they do, but not all.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:47 PM  
farm1.static.flickr.com

Let's try that again.

Approves.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:01 PM  

MooseUpNorth: farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?

Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


Lots of other reasons for people to have banned eating pig.
- Pigs require a lot of water to raise, and for people living in the middle east and North Africa, clean freshwater was often hard to come by.
- As you mentioned trichinellosis.  Even if you don't eat the meat, the cysts from the worms will get into the water supply via pig feces, which leads to worms burrowing into your brain.
- Its real easy for pig disease to spread from pig to human, and from birds to pigs.  The flu of 1918 was originally a bird flu.  They've traced its outbreak back to a military camp in France where pigs and chickens were kept close together.  They believe the chickens got sick, the disease jumped from the chickens to the pigs, and from the pigs to soldiers heading home after fighting spreading the flu around the world.  My hunch is people who kept pigs back then tended to get sick a lot more often than non-pig keepers.  So while people might not have known about viruses, they could clearly see god liked to punish the pig keepers.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:29 PM  

farkeruk: cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.

So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?


It's all arbitrary mostly.  But even secular norms are arbitrary.  So really who cares?
 
2013-05-10 01:52:32 PM  

Munchkin City Coroner: ... lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever....


You MONSTER!!!!
 
2013-05-10 01:52:36 PM  

orbister: Tatsuma: We might understand many reasons for the various commandments that G-d gave us, but ultimately we do them because we were commanded to, not because it makes sense to our rational minds. Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.

That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

It's the dishonest ones who try to claim that there is any evidence.


You forgot religious extremists and jihadists.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:38 PM  

farkeruk: cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.

So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?


I don't know. I'm going to eat barbeque pork with pork rinds tonight.  I just wanted to say Behoove
 
2013-05-10 01:53:30 PM  

iwatts: Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?


It's illegal for you to tell me you're selling me coke when you're really selling me pepsi. How much more so this.
 
2013-05-10 01:53:36 PM  
Pork is a nice, sweet meat...
i500.listal.com
 
2013-05-10 01:53:45 PM  

farkeruk: Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."

What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


Pigs will eat all sorts of crap and can carry a ton of diseases and parasites. Same basic reason bats, mice, shellfish, etc are banned in holy texts. There were valid medical/scientific reasons for avoiding them at the time so they worked them into the religion for the sake of not drying. Time passed, we understood diseases better, quality control was imposed, and tada, no need for ancient dietary restrictions. Just take the common wisdom and morality of the era, make it absolute, and stick one or more personas behind it and you've got every religion. If you don't think people will heed the advice, you throw in a list of punishments.
 
2013-05-10 01:54:48 PM  

orbister: That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.


Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence? If you follow the laws of kashrut/halal, you don't eat pork. You can hear as many arguments extolling the virtues of bacon or prosciutto as can be, but a preference is a preference.

If you argue the universe/Earth is 6,000 years old, even if you don't care if they never mention that in the godless public school system (which is fine, you drag the kid to Mass every week) you have to willfully ignore lots and lots of science. Facts are facts.
 
2013-05-10 01:55:29 PM  
 
2013-05-10 01:55:45 PM  
Did any one die and go to Hell?
 
2013-05-10 01:56:05 PM  
mypetjawa.mu.nu
 
2013-05-10 01:56:15 PM  
LOL @ retards who won't eat certain types of foods due to retarded religious beliefs.
 
2013-05-10 01:56:21 PM  

DeathCipris: You forgot religious extremists and jihadists.


I'm sure Tats'll bring them up in due course.
 
2013-05-10 01:57:16 PM  

ShawnDoc: Lots of other reasons for people to have banned eating pig.
- Pigs require a lot of water to raise, and for people living in the middle east and North Africa, clean freshwater was often hard to come by.
- As you mentioned trichinellosis.  Even if you don't eat the meat, the cysts from the worms will get into the water supply via pig feces, which leads to worms burrowing into your brain.
- Its real easy for pig disease to spread from pig to human, and from birds to pigs.  The flu of 1918 was originally a bird flu.  They've traced its outbreak back to a military camp in France where pigs and chickens were kept close together.  They believe the chickens got sick, the disease jumped from the chickens to the pigs, and from the pigs to soldiers heading home after fighting spreading the flu around the world.  My hunch is people who kept pigs back then tended to get sick a lot more often than non-pig keepers.  So while people might not have known about viruses, they could clearly see god liked to punish the pig keepers.


So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".
 
2013-05-10 01:57:35 PM  

Tatsuma: For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.


The Mishnah Berurah starts by describing how to start your day - wake up, do the dailies, prayers, yadda yadda - down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you you put on and tie first. I don't know that there's a court in the land that would consider "shoe-wearing" a religious ceremony.

// also, the Ramah probably disagrees anyway
// farking Poles
 
2013-05-10 01:57:53 PM  
Sums up the mentality of the 'hamburger' producers neatly:
 
2013-05-10 01:58:25 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // farking Poles

Germans

How did I make that mistake?
 
2013-05-10 01:58:25 PM  
Looks like all those muslims are going straight to hell.  They may as well kill themselves now.
 
2013-05-10 01:58:39 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence?


I was referring to the chap who said "sometimes you just gotta follow the rules", not to dietary choice in particular. Generally I don't care what people eat, but I'm buggered if I can see why local authority schools should pander to a bunch of iron age superstitions, particularly when it involves significant cruelty to animals.
 
2013-05-10 01:58:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: orbister: That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence? If you follow the laws of kashrut/halal, you don't eat pork. You can hear as many arguments extolling the virtues of bacon or prosciutto as can be, but a preference is a preference.

If you argue the universe/Earth is 6,000 years old, even if you don't care if they never mention that in the godless public school system (which is fine, you drag the kid to Mass every week) you have to willfully ignore lots and lots of science. Facts are facts.


And all scientists still say they can't figure out exactly how old it is.  Carbon dating is only as exact as how long it's been since someone came up with the idea to use it.  They're still improving on it.  Does that mean I think it's 6,000 years old? Nah.  We just can't figure out the exact age.  Quit spackling earth cream into the earth maybe, and eventually the true age will show up.
 
2013-05-10 01:59:12 PM  

Dr Dreidel: down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you shoe you put on and tie first.


Sigh. At least I don't write for a living...
 
2013-05-10 01:59:19 PM  

germ78: Sums up the mentality of the 'hamburger' producers neatly:


Doh. Image was too big, so here's a link: Brick_Top.png
 
2013-05-10 01:59:34 PM  
There was a young pig from Missouri
Who found himself turned into slurry.
He wasn't halal,
So to avoid a recall,
They slathered him up with some curry.
 
2013-05-10 01:59:38 PM  

cwolf20: traylor: No no no, let me explain. These "Halal" burgers must have come from Hungary, where the word "halal" means "death". Pork or no pork, they are just what their name implies, death burgers. Frankly, those kids are lucky if they are not dead yet.

Monty Python (probably a mangling of scenes, but meh. Haven't seen it in years):  "Bring out your dead"  "I'm not dead yet"


No, really.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/halál
 
2013-05-10 01:59:46 PM  
Other then 4th grade boys, is their any religious group that don't eat vegetables?

/recently ordered a Cobb salad...couldn't find the Cobbs
 
2013-05-10 01:59:48 PM  

mayIFark: AugieDoggyDaddy:

rev. dave: Those poor children are now condemned to Hell through no fault of their own.  Since they never ate pork, how would they be able to tell it was pork?

AFAIK, if someone gives you something saying its Halal, it becomes Halal to you, and if it is not, fault goes to whoever gave it to you. Whoever ate them has no responsibility. Again, AFAIK, only Hindu religion has a different perspective on this. You are doomed even if you eat beef unknowingly. You have not go through a process of repent.


I should have told the story behind that one.
I worked in a kosher kitchen when I was in my early 20's, I learned a lot about the rules.  Check the salad for bugs, check the eggs for blood, make sure all the utensils were kosherized before bringing them into the kitchen.   My supervisor brought a non-kosherized spatula into the kitchen and I called him out on it and he replied " well I guess we just sent them all to hell"  so it stuck with me.
 
2013-05-10 02:00:19 PM  

Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.


But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.
 
2013-05-10 02:00:22 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.

The Mishnah Berurah starts by describing how to start your day - wake up, do the dailies, prayers, yadda yadda - down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you you put on and tie first. I don't know that there's a court in the land that would consider "shoe-wearing" a religious ceremony.

// also, the Ramah probably disagrees anyway
// farking Poles


Out of curiosity, why is that level of detail necessary for such a mundane routine in religious doctrine? It had to serve a purpose at some point I assume.
 
2013-05-10 02:01:48 PM  

farkeruk: So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".


Indeed. Any sane system of beliefs would say "Hey, our kids have been eating pork for years and no lightning bolts. It's obviously fine after all. Our bad. Someone gimme a bacon sammidge" but instead they just hunker down in more nonsensical outrage.
 
2013-05-10 02:01:54 PM  

Nabb1: I'm guessing Halality did not ensue.


Ooo!  Idea for the next Mortal Kombat!  Trigger a halality, your character chops the other character up into tiny pieces, packs them onto a spit and serves them as shwarma!
 
2013-05-10 02:02:32 PM  

Mock26: Hog. Anus. Lamb. Anus. Lentils.  HALAL.


You said anus twice.
 
2013-05-10 02:02:48 PM  

Dr Dreidel: How did I make that mistake?


As long as you don't bring up hungarians.
 
2013-05-10 02:03:50 PM  

rev. dave: make sure all the utensils were kosherized before bringing them into the kitchen


How do you kosherize a spatula - cut the end off or what?
 
2013-05-10 02:03:59 PM  

topcon: LOL @ retards who won't eat certain types of foods due to retarded religious beliefs.


Religion does have an interesting effect on passing on knowledge. The making of samurai swords is immersed in the Shinto religion. The various prayers and rites involved ensures that complex production procedures are followed each and every time a sword is made.

/the fact that if the customer doesn't like your blade, he could express his displeasure by lopping your head off with it might have contributed to high product quality as well.
 
2013-05-10 02:04:06 PM  
"As far as we knew, 'Halal' means 'pork' in Urdu. Who knew different? ", a company spokesperson said.
 
2013-05-10 02:05:28 PM  

Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.


More generally, Coming on a Bicycle is stating that intentionally mislabeling food products is acceptable and should not be criminally prohibited.
 
2013-05-10 02:07:16 PM  
i only drink Kosher Coke
 
2013-05-10 02:07:38 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

Kosher salt is actually just the dandruff swept up off of Boca Raton bingo hall floors.


Damn I needed that, gracias.
 
2013-05-10 02:07:49 PM  

cwolf20: And all scientists still say they can't figure out exactly how old it is


You want it to the second? Because the adjustments now are a couple of a percent or less in either direction.
 
2013-05-10 02:08:33 PM  

DeathCipris: Out of curiosity, why is that level of detail necessary for such a mundane routine in religious doctrine? It had to serve a purpose at some point I assume.


I have asked that question many times. The closest thing to a satisfactory answer I've ever gotten was that there has to be SOME way of doing things - some people like the dopamine rush of "doing god's will", so giving them the "approved" method satisfies that need.

It's not a great answer, but for the devout, no guidance would throw a null pointer error.
 
2013-05-10 02:08:49 PM  
Lisa Islam:  Is there anything here without pork in it?
Lunch Lady Fatima:  Possibly the Infidel McDonald's Ribwitch(TM).


It is sometimes tricky translating the Simpsons into Arabic. Check your boxed set commentaries for details.
 
2013-05-10 02:09:47 PM  
Let me guess, they're complaining about it being pork and not that Halal is being used in a modern country?

Because the first thing is not nearly as bad as the second thing.
 
2013-05-10 02:10:05 PM  

Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.


There's immature, and there's illegal, and there's your own qualifier of certain human beings as being 'the worst types of people'. So you tell me - what's the difference?
 
2013-05-10 02:10:25 PM  

Dimensio: More generally, Coming on a Bicycle is stating that intentionally mislabeling food products is acceptable and should not be criminally prohibited.


Mislabelling is bad, but it should be treated by the state as any worse because it infringes superstitious rules. If God feels bad about it, She can do the extra smiting Herself.
 
2013-05-10 02:11:11 PM  

MrKevvy: cwolf20: And all scientists still say they can't figure out exactly how old it is

You want it to the second? Because the adjustments now are a couple of a percent or less in either direction.


Oh good, I am behind. It's not like I have time to keep up with the latest science advancements.
 
2013-05-10 02:12:46 PM  

Munchkin City Coroner: Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.

Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.


You are correct; fraudulently mislabeling food products deserves absolutely no legal consequence.
 
2013-05-10 02:13:01 PM  

rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.


Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".
 
2013-05-10 02:13:36 PM  

Dimensio: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

More generally, Coming on a Bicycle is stating that intentionally mislabeling food products is acceptable and should not be criminally prohibited.


No, it's not acceptable. It's - in this case - just not as bad as it seems. It's worthy of a fine, and a heavy one if a lot of profit was generated from it, but it's certainly not worthy of all the religious angst.
 
2013-05-10 02:13:36 PM  
s3.amazonaws.com

Pigs are filthy animals
 
2013-05-10 02:14:14 PM  
I was going to post a Ha Ha Guy saying "Ha lal" but I'm not cool enough to have a hosting site for the image.
 
2013-05-10 02:14:36 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 240x180]

"There's quite a bit of meat in these gym mats"


Came for a gym mat reference.  Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-05-10 02:14:49 PM  

special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.


Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.
 
2013-05-10 02:14:59 PM  

Dr Dreidel: I have asked that question many times. The closest thing to a satisfactory answer I've ever gotten was that there has to be SOME way of doing things - some people like the dopamine rush of "doing god's will", so giving them the "approved" method satisfies that need.


There are also issues of power here. When you have hundreds of pages of abstruse rules about how to make and eat a meal, for example, you are handing immense power to those who (claim to) understand and interpret those rules. It's not that long since Kirk sessions (parish councils) could have you chained up outside the church in Scotland for breaking one of the petty rules which Calvinism adores. Look also at the power exerted over generally less observant societies by the religious hardliners in Iran and Israel.
 
2013-05-10 02:15:32 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?


Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
 
2013-05-10 02:15:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Dr Dreidel: // farking Poles Germans Navajos!


FTFM
 
2013-05-10 02:15:46 PM  

orbister: rev. dave: make sure all the utensils were kosherized before bringing them into the kitchen

How do you kosherize a spatula - cut the end off or what?


boil in water, blessed by a rabbi.  This is the metal bladed one not the egg flipper variety.

/yeah ..., but you need to make sure to do it in a ceremony shortly after the spatula was created with a bolt cutter
 
2013-05-10 02:15:49 PM  

Kibbler: They slathered him up with some curry.


I had an extended stay in the hospital a while back and one day the special in the cafeteria was curried pork.  I thought it was about the most unlikely dish I'd ever seen.  My fellow  loonies er, I mean inpatients didn't understand why I thought it was funny.
 
2013-05-10 02:16:10 PM  

Notabunny: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.


Yup.  People suck.
 
2013-05-10 02:16:13 PM  
AWWWW HALAL NAWWWWWWWWW!
 
2013-05-10 02:16:27 PM  

Dr Dreidel: DeathCipris: Out of curiosity, why is that level of detail necessary for such a mundane routine in religious doctrine? It had to serve a purpose at some point I assume.

I have asked that question many times. The closest thing to a satisfactory answer I've ever gotten was that there has to be SOME way of doing things - some people like the dopamine rush of "doing god's will", so giving them the "approved" method satisfies that need.

It's not a great answer, but for the devout, no guidance would throw a null pointer error.


That's...troubling that people were/are that inept they can't figure out simple tasks without divine instruction.
The "God High" as I am calling it, makes more sense than people just being that friggen clueless. But hey, as long as their respective deity is telling them how to put on their underwear as opposed to kill the unbelievers, no problem here.
 
2013-05-10 02:17:07 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.


Hahahahaha.  Won't happen.  How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers?  You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.
 
2013-05-10 02:17:28 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Loucifer: Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!

You mean they won't get 72 pre-pubescent girls to rape?!



Is the bacon and pulled pork really worth it? Tough call either way.


And in response to the situation in the article: Fark 'em if they can't take a joke. If you want to keep kosher, or halal, bring your lunch from home.
 
2013-05-10 02:18:03 PM  

rev. dave: boil in water, blessed by a rabbi.


Does the water have to be boiled by a fire lit by an observant Jew, or is that just bread baking?
 
2013-05-10 02:19:06 PM  
I am genuinely curious about the Muslim stance on Aardvark meat because I happening to be sitting on a lot of it and have few salable recourses. Some call it ground-pig.... whatever it is actually quite tasty pan fried..
 
2013-05-10 02:19:22 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.

Hahahahaha.  Won't happen.  How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers?  You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.


What if you call them steamed hams at the trial instead?
 
2013-05-10 02:19:34 PM  

Dimensio: Munchkin City Coroner: Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.

Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.

You are correct; fraudulently mislabeling food products deserves absolutely no legal consequence.


Bah, they just didn't read the back of the container.

* Real LambBurger® contains 0% lamb
 
2013-05-10 02:19:55 PM  

farkeruk: Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick

But none of these religions forbid eating chicken, despite chicken carrying salmonella that is far more likely to make you sick than pork.


We have caused many disease problems. "Clean" fowl in the wild do not have the problems we do in raising mass quantities of edible(?) animals. Feeding chickens meat and mishandling them in the killing/ cleaning process cause the problems. Same with Mad Cow. They were feeding cows feed that included ground up cows including brains.
 
2013-05-10 02:20:08 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Kosher salt is actually just the dandruff swept up off of Boca Raton bingo hall floors.


I heard it was the dried tears of Palestinians.
Or is that
Mediterranean
 sea salt?
 
2013-05-10 02:20:14 PM  

orbister: Tatsuma: Therefore, fark them for wanting to abide by it while not forcing you to abide by them?

Laws on cruelty to animals should apply regardless of religion. Kosher and halal slaughtering practices would both result in prison time for anyone not dusted in magic woo-woo powder.


I agree completely.  Peoples' right to practice cult rituals should never supersede animal rights.

As such, this story only illicits my outrage on the basis that food products were mislabeled.
 
2013-05-10 02:21:40 PM  

Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick.


That doesn't make any sense.

Herd animals are far, far more likely to have communicable diseases since germs love large numbers of potential victims in close proximity. And any diseases prey have would die out once their flesh was digested by the predators. The preys' viruses and bacteria dont just hang out inside the predator waiting to infect the next step up on the food chain.

Furthermore, look at seafood, where we tend to eat the larger predator species.
Bluefin Tuna.
Apex predator.
Frequently consumed RAW by the most long-lived ethnic group on the planet.

The only issue with eating apex predators nowadays is rhe problem of toxin concentrations, but this problem DID NOT EXIST YET when the religious dietary rules were being put in place.
 
2013-05-10 02:21:53 PM  
FTA:

A spokeswoman for Leicester City Council said: "Because it was only one burger that was tested and the findings were so wide-ranging, we have ordered further samples of more burgers

Translation:

The Council is hungry.  Bring us more burgers!
 
2013-05-10 02:22:06 PM  
I sure am glad that I'm not held back or riddled with guilt by bronze age fairy tale based dietary restrictions.

Its nice to be able to enjoy any food I wish, with no feelings of moral guilt.
 
2013-05-10 02:22:42 PM  

cc_rider: special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.

Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.


Agreed - it was wrong to serve a food product to people who do believe that consuming it obliterates their chance to enter heaven. I suppose strict adherence through guilt explains why so many kids get baptized before they even have a choice for themselves. Yup. Nice grey area there. Let's talk about politics now.
 
2013-05-10 02:23:01 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: Hahahahaha. Won't happen. How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers? You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.


... Hamburgers are called that way because they originate from Hamburg, Germany.
 
2013-05-10 02:23:50 PM  

tcaptain: FTA:

A spokeswoman for Leicester City Council said: "Because it was only one burger that was tested and the findings were so wide-ranging, we have ordered further samples of more burgers

Translation:

The Council is hungry.  Bring us more burgers!


theinfosphere.org

Silence!
I concur!
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-05-10 02:23:59 PM  
Baghdad Bob Does Corporate P.R.

scm-l3.technorati.com


Corporations need no oversight.  They ALWAYS do the right thing when your back is turned!  Believe it!  They don't pay me to say this!/
 
2013-05-10 02:24:10 PM  

cwolf20: Oh good, I am behind. It's not like I have time to keep up with the latest science advancements.


Here's the recent one I was thinking of.
 
2013-05-10 02:24:20 PM  

cwolf20: Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.

They're serving donkey too?


That stuff tastes like ass
 
2013-05-10 02:24:39 PM  
I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.
 
2013-05-10 02:25:20 PM  
SphericalTime:  FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>
No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


You're a Libertarian aren't you?
 
2013-05-10 02:25:59 PM  

farkeruk: So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".


Oh, I'm not arguing that the dietary rules still belong, just pointing out that back in the days before science there were lots of reasons to ban pork.

Although, trichinosis, including brain eating worms, is still a problem in much of the world, due to poor sanitary conditions.  There's actually been an increase in recent years due to people eating pork in Mexico while on vacation.
 
2013-05-10 02:27:54 PM  

MorePeasPlease: I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.


www4.picturepush.com
 
2013-05-10 02:28:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Dr Dreidel: // farking Poles Germans

How did I make that mistake?


Just remember that it was the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor, man.  That's how I keep them straight.

/It was Helen Keller who crash-landed in her plane in Poland
 
2013-05-10 02:28:30 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I hope the people that are manufacturing and producing these burgers get their asses handed to them.


But then they would have assburgers!
 
2013-05-10 02:28:42 PM  

give me doughnuts: And in response to the situation in the article: Fark 'em if they can't take a joke. If you want to keep kosher, or halal, bring your lunch from home.


Ditto for organic, vegan, gluten-free, unpasteurized, etc. etc.

Can an infidel kitchen even make halal food?  Public schools can't do kosher and shouldn't even try--the past history of every implement and surface in the kitchen would be important, the re-koshering can only be done by an observant jew, and lastly, there's the whole hornet's nest of which kosher authorities different jews recognize.  Far better to just say "The cafeteria is treyf" and be done with it.  Is halal any better?
 
2013-05-10 02:28:48 PM  
O.k. , who squealed?
 
2013-05-10 02:28:57 PM  

nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.


This. So much this.

Fish is even worse. Most of the fish you eat isn't what is advertised. I recall something around 3/4. (But don't take my word on it.)
 
2013-05-10 02:29:04 PM  

berylman: I am genuinely curious about the Muslim stance on Aardvark meat because I happening to be sitting on a lot of it and have few salable recourses. Some call it ground-pig.... whatever it is actually quite tasty pan fried..


Yes, aardvark is permissible.
 
2013-05-10 02:29:33 PM  

special20: cc_rider: special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.

Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.

Agreed - it was wrong to serve a food product to people who do believe that consuming it obliterates their chance to enter heaven. I suppose strict adherence through guilt explains why so many kids get baptized before they even have a choice for themselves. Yup. Nice grey area there. Let's talk about politics now.


It doesn't work like that - not all religions are like Christianity. You don't get to 'not go to heaven' because you do something that is forbidden - you're supposed to keep yourself 'clean' and the only enforcers of it are your neighbours - the clan if you will.
 
2013-05-10 02:30:15 PM  

Nattering Nabob: We have caused many disease problems. "Clean" fowl in the wild do not have the problems we do in raising mass quantities of edible(?) animals.


Nope.  Listeria exists in wild foul.

If you don't buy that, what about fugu? Why isn't fugu in there?
 
2013-05-10 02:31:04 PM  

iwatts: rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".


As outlandish as it may sound, some people might be allergic to pork (a very tiny number). And so they might eat the Jewish and Muslim foods (and anything else labeled pork-free) because those should be safe. They would definitely be physically harmed by eating those foods.

Just like nuts or shellfish or wheat being added to food without being mentioned in the ingredients or food name.
 
2013-05-10 02:32:44 PM  

Tatsuma: Big_Fat_Liar: Hahahahaha. Won't happen. How are you going to sue somebody for putting pork in hamburgers? You'd have a better chance at winning your loser lottery if it turned out to be beef or some kind of tofu crap.

... Hamburgers are called that way because they originate from Hamburg, Germany.


Really?  So they aren't necessarily made out of ham or hampsters, but could even be made out of beef?
 
2013-05-10 02:33:28 PM  

legion_of_doo: I respect other traditions, though. in reality, anyway, and not necessarily on the internet. I wouldn't serve meat to a vegetarian, nor pork to a Jew or Muslim. just a respect thing.


Amazing how that concept is lost on so many farkers.  I bet more than a few of those saying "It's a stupid tradition anyhow" would be up in arms had they been putting beef into black bean burgers.

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.
 
2013-05-10 02:33:53 PM  

flondrix: give me doughnuts: And in response to the situation in the article: Fark 'em if they can't take a joke. If you want to keep kosher, or halal, bring your lunch from home.

Ditto for organic, vegan, gluten-free, unpasteurized, etc. etc.

Can an infidel kitchen even make halal food?  Public schools can't do kosher and shouldn't even try--the past history of every implement and surface in the kitchen would be important, the re-koshering can only be done by an observant jew, and lastly, there's the whole hornet's nest of which kosher authorities different jews recognize.  Far better to just say "The cafeteria is treyf" and be done with it.  Is halal any better?


Use clean utensils and cook ware, and ensure no contamination between batches.  That is about the extent of it.  Treat the halal meat as if it were from a completely different animal, so ensure you wash the cook ware and don new gloves before handling it, and you should be good to go.
 
2013-05-10 02:34:16 PM  
The worst part of this story is that people still think need to eat special magically elevated food. Kosher and Halal eaters - go fark yourselves.
 
2013-05-10 02:34:18 PM  
Dimensio: Munchkin City Coroner: Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.
Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.
You are correct; fraudulently mislabeling food products deserves absolutely no legal consequence.


It's amazing how many people in this thread believe it's okay to deceive your customers as long as a profit is made.
 
2013-05-10 02:34:20 PM  

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

Kosher salt is called that way because it's a salt that is used for kashering meat, not because it is kosher in itself. Salt alone is kosher by default.

Dr Dreidel: I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

More or less, yes. Not just the Tanya, either.

For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.

Dr Dreidel: // do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

I believe in certain situations they do, but not all.


They do have an extreme duress clause. "If the coice is bacon, or death, then you can eat it and you won't burn for it."

But is says nothing about "cake or death."
 
2013-05-10 02:34:38 PM  

rebelyell2006: iwatts: rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".

As outlandish as it may sound, some people might be allergic to pork (a very tiny number). And so they might eat the Jewish and Muslim foods (and anything else labeled pork-free) because those should be safe. They would definitely be physically harmed by eating those foods.

Just like nuts or shellfish or wheat being added to food without being mentioned in the ingredients or food name.


Or soy. Tofu gives me runny shiat.
 
2013-05-10 02:34:46 PM  
o noes, muslims were tricked into eating delicious pig, which goes against their cult!

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-10 02:34:49 PM  
As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).
 
2013-05-10 02:34:52 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

This. So much this.

Fish is even worse. Most of the fish you eat isn't what is advertised. I recall something around 3/4. (But don't take my word on it.)


Well, with fish you also have to consider where it's from, even if it is the exact fish you think you're buying, because some areas have so much heavy metal contamination that certain seafood is considered unsafe.  For instance, the PA Fish & Game commission pamphlet recommends eating only so much catfish out of the Monongahela river, I don't recall the exact amount, and that pregnant women should avoid it entirely.  That's why I only eat farm raised catfish.
 
2013-05-10 02:37:07 PM  

Tatsuma: KiltedBastich: No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.

... you know you're obsessed when you blame the Tea Party for something that happened in England.


Stone Meadow: Never ascribe to obsession that which can be explained by mere stupidity.

Missed the follow up comment, didn't you? Good reading comprehension there. Let me help you folks out with that.

KiltedBastich: To clarify, yes, I know this is the UK. This was presented as a hypothetical.


Do you enjoy knowing you are entirely predictable? How's that working out for you?
 
2013-05-10 02:37:22 PM  

orbister: There are also issues of power here.


As far as I know, there is no punishment for violating the rules on how to get dressed - think of them more as "preferences". He presents the "god-approved" way, but that doesn't mean your way is wrong (unless you put the pants on your head). Judaism has tolerance for ranges of opinion (certain restrictions apply).

DeathCipris: That's...troubling that people were/are that inept they can't figure out simple tasks without divine instruction.


Because until the 17th Century (when the Shulchan Aruch was written - it's the book the MB was based on), no Jews wore clothing? Having a standard - any standard - creates the idea that doing something mundane (like getting dressed) connects you to the larger group, or to the culture, or to god.

Maybe it's about control or superstition, but I always figured it was more of a "fundamentals" thing. Julio Franco has a fundamentally weird batting stance, but he made a 20-year MLB career using it, so...
 
2013-05-10 02:37:53 PM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...


In fairness, the dietary restrictions were put there for a reason - at a time when it wasn't understood that if you simply cooked something, the parasites/etc get killed. The religious leaders did it for the good of their people at the time, they just don't make sense at a time when we can easily prepare things properly.
 
2013-05-10 02:38:05 PM  

darth_badger: I have to drive all the way to Kemah and go to Tookie's to get a burger like that and they get then in school!


Tookie's is my jam!
 
2013-05-10 02:38:40 PM  
I would assume that Halal meat is sold at a premium price. Adulterating the product with a cheaper type of meat is fraudulent.
All religion/voodoo/superstition aside, this is, at its core, a case of fraud.
 
2013-05-10 02:39:31 PM  

nekom: It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.


Where horse meat is illegal (wasn't it illegal in the USA until a couple years ago?) it is a certainty that any slaughterhouse or butcher shop processing it is not undergoing regular government inspections.
 
2013-05-10 02:39:36 PM  
But how much lion?
 
2013-05-10 02:39:44 PM  

Dr Dreidel: DeathCipris: Out of curiosity, why is that level of detail necessary for such a mundane routine in religious doctrine? It had to serve a purpose at some point I assume.

I have asked that question many times. The closest thing to a satisfactory answer I've ever gotten was that there has to be SOME way of doing things - some people like the dopamine rush of "doing god's will", so giving them the "approved" method satisfies that need.

It's not a great answer, but for the devout, no guidance would throw a null pointer error.


My theory is that there's a certain amount of religious one-upmanship going on.  As one of the religions with the longest history(and a tradition of lawyerism) , Judaism has collected more of it.  Roughly speaking, by following more 'rules' they prove themselves more holy/worthy of redemtion than their peers, so their peers have to come up with more rules, etc...
 
2013-05-10 02:39:47 PM  

JustGetItRight: Amazing how that concept is lost on so many farkers.  I bet more than a few of those saying "It's a stupid tradition anyhow" would be up in arms had they been putting beef into black bean burgers.

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.


I'd like to think that someone who ordered black bean burgers might be able to tell the difference.
 
2013-05-10 02:40:52 PM  

MorePeasPlease: I'll never forget the day I bit into a hamburger and my teeth hit something hard that gave way with a crack and a sudden pop, then a warm runny liquid oozed onto my lip. I slowly removed the burger from my mouth, placed it onto the table and pulled back the top bun to reveal the broken body of a tiny Bruce Willis.


I'm sure I'm supposed to get something from this.  Should I be drinking?
 
2013-05-10 02:42:26 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-10 02:42:34 PM  

nekom: That's why I only eat farm raised catfish.


Are farm raised fish necessarily less contaminated?  Just asking.
 
2013-05-10 02:43:15 PM  

fmk040: Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."


Even murder?
 
2013-05-10 02:44:04 PM  

SphericalTime: No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance. Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.


I does when it constitutes fraud in willfully mislabeled products.
 
2013-05-10 02:44:06 PM  

flondrix: nekom: That's why I only eat farm raised catfish.

Are farm raised fish necessarily less contaminated?  Just asking.



Less bio-accumulative toxins from their food, is my guess.
 
2013-05-10 02:45:11 PM  
i218.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-10 02:45:28 PM  

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

Kosher salt is called that way because it's a salt that is used for kashering meat, not because it is kosher in itself. Salt alone is kosher by default.


I have learned a thing today.

/Have you favorited as "his taste in music is awesome and we'd all better recognize"
 
2013-05-10 02:45:33 PM  

zabadu: fmk040: Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Even murder?



Murder requires intent, and therfore can't be done "in ignorance."
 
2013-05-10 02:45:38 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: While religious dietary restrictions are mostly silly, it doesn't mean you can do this.


This is one of the most sensible statements made on this matter.
 
2013-05-10 02:46:03 PM  

Boxcutta: [i.imgur.com image 400x287]


allahdammitsomuch...
 
2013-05-10 02:46:22 PM  
JustGetItRight:

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.


This is it right here.  It DOES NOT MATTER what religion, if any is involved.  It does not matter if you or I personally believe in that religion.  They do, and paid to not eat what they didn't want.   I don't know why all these farkers have to bang on religion as if it's what's wrong here.  Hell, I'm the most non religious person you may ever meet, and I think this is a serious business wrongdoing as in they paid for what they did not get.

Me, try to take my delicious, delicious bacon and I will kill you with my bare hands.
 
2013-05-10 02:46:35 PM  

farkeruk: I'd like to think that someone who ordered black bean burgers might be able to tell the difference.


Probably, but you know the point I was making.  Seems I remember Vegans threw a fit when they found out McDonald's fries were cooked in oils containing animal fat.

/And McDonald's changed oil so now their fries aren't as tasty so I hope someone's putting beef in black bean burgers right now.
//Not really.
///Well, mostly not really.
 
2013-05-10 02:47:21 PM  
Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.

Is  this true.  "The very heart of their faith"?  The Christian Bible also says not to eat pork and shellfish and don't fark your sister, etc..  Most Christians consider it a bunch of Old Testament religiously insignificant nonsense, except the sister part - something based on health standards of the time.  Why would a Muslim have a different outlook?  Isn't there rule against pork from other than the same Muslim equivalent of the Old Testament?

/this is the part where I confess to not being a religious scholar and eveyone else saying "no shiat, you're no religious scholar...."

//also, this is a good place to point out that, my previous ham jokes aside, according to wikipedia, hamburgers are not always made from beef.
 
2013-05-10 02:47:47 PM  
sounds like lazy meat packer just shoving whatever was handy down the grinder
 
2013-05-10 02:48:28 PM  

Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).


I'm sure you think you make the world a better place too.
 
2013-05-10 02:48:34 PM  

give me doughnuts: zabadu: fmk040: Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Even murder?


Murder requires intent, and therfore can't be done "in ignorance."


Sure it can.  I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.

It just seems that quote seems to cover every evil transgression - not any particular.  You forgot to wash your eating hand?  Repent, amend and you are forgiven.  All religions seem to have this out-clause.  Jews- day of atonement.  Catholics - confession.  Oops, my bad.  I repent. I am forgiven.

Yep.
 
2013-05-10 02:48:40 PM  

Dr Dreidel: orbister: There are also issues of power here.

As far as I know, there is no punishment for violating the rules on how to get dressed - think of them more as "preferences". He presents the "god-approved" way, but that doesn't mean your way is wrong (unless you put the pants on your head). Judaism has tolerance for ranges of opinion (certain restrictions apply).

DeathCipris: That's...troubling that people were/are that inept they can't figure out simple tasks without divine instruction.

Because until the 17th Century (when the Shulchan Aruch was written - it's the book the MB was based on), no Jews wore clothing? Having a standard - any standard - creates the idea that doing something mundane (like getting dressed) connects you to the larger group, or to the culture, or to god.

Maybe it's about control or superstition, but I always figured it was more of a "fundamentals" thing. Julio Franco has a fundamentally weird batting stance, but he made a 20-year MLB career using it, so...


Agreed. Humans have it in their psychology to belong to a group. It has brought together hundreds of thousands of people and accomplished crazy goals, whether good or evil. Like I said before, as long as it is something as inane as putting on a shirt and not killing people, I am cool with it.
 
2013-05-10 02:49:47 PM  

JustGetItRight: farkeruk: I'd like to think that someone who ordered black bean burgers might be able to tell the difference.

Probably, but you know the point I was making.  Seems I remember Vegans threw a fit when they found out McDonald's fries were cooked in oils containing animal fat.

/And McDonald's changed oil so now their fries aren't as tasty so I hope someone's putting beef in black bean burgers right now.
//Not really.
///Well, mostly not really.


Wrong.  Fries were dipped in beef product prior to frying.
 
2013-05-10 02:50:27 PM  

farkeruk: Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."

What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


i can tell you know next to nothing about what you eat

it just comes in a wrapper and it's all good for you

pigs and chickens can be very disgusting animals if you don't control what they eat, not to mentiuon that pigs are prone to diseases and parasites
 
2013-05-10 02:50:44 PM  
I don't know how the sick tag applies here. Silly superstitions aside, way worse stuff has been found in burgers.
 
2013-05-10 02:50:56 PM  
I guess that's better than supplying your Indian colonial troops with cartridges greased with beef or pork fat.

They can get ever so uppity and rebellious over such a silly thing.
 
2013-05-10 02:52:29 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: JustGetItRight:

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.

This is it right here.  It DOES NOT MATTER what religion, if any is involved.  It does not matter if you or I personally believe in that religion.  They do, and paid to not eat what they didn't want.   I don't know why all these farkers have to bang on religion as if it's what's wrong here.  Hell, I'm the most non religious person you may ever meet, and I think this is a serious business wrongdoing as in they paid for what they did not get.

Me, try to take my delicious, delicious bacon and I will kill you with my bare hands.



Except they didn't pay. At least not any more than any other taxpayer. They had hissy fits and threatened legal action until the local council gave in and started serving only halal food (or food alleged to be halal).
 
2013-05-10 02:52:49 PM  
legion_of_doo:

I respect other traditions, though. in reality, anyway, and not necessarily on the internet. I wouldn't serve meat to a vegetarian, nor pork to a Jew or Muslim. just a respect thing.

Yep.

I'm Jewish, but like 85%+ of Jews in America, I don't keep kosher.  I'm not religious, either.

That said, anytime we've invited any other Jews to our house for dinner, we ask if they keep kosher and to what extent that they do.  Sometimes it's as simple as, "No shellfish, but everything else is fine."  Sometimes it's "We don't mix meat and milk, but no need for separate utensils or dishes."  Many times, our Jewish friends maintain ZERO dietary restrictions.

Regardless of the level of dietary restriction (which may be none at all, it just depends on the person), we respect it.   Because respecting their dietary restrictions is part of respecting the person.
 
2013-05-10 02:52:55 PM  

zabadu: JustGetItRight: farkeruk: I'd like to think that someone who ordered black bean burgers might be able to tell the difference.

Probably, but you know the point I was making.  Seems I remember Vegans threw a fit when they found out McDonald's fries were cooked in oils containing animal fat.

/And McDonald's changed oil so now their fries aren't as tasty so I hope someone's putting beef in black bean burgers right now.
//Not really.
///Well, mostly not really.

Wrong.  Fries were dipped in beef product prior to frying.


Mmm, beef product. Even the name is delicious.
 
2013-05-10 02:53:31 PM  
Why is this "sick"? Because of some idiotic superstitious people? How about they start eating pork if they expect to live in a Christian country like the UK.
 
2013-05-10 02:53:37 PM  

Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.


It would suck if you had this guy for an employee and then got sued out of existence by some pissed off muslim lawyer.
 
2013-05-10 02:54:00 PM  

zabadu: fmk040: Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Even murder?


Is it murder if it is actually accidental?  I'm pretty sure criminal law draws a rather emphatic line in between accidental murder and accidental killing, although I'm not a lawyer.  As far as a I understand, as long as no illegal act was committed due to which the deceased passed, with the understanding that it would not cause harm, it's an accidental killing, and not murder.
On the basis of Islamic law: Free a slave and/or pay compensation to the family of the deceased.  If neither can be done (you're flat broke, you can't pay for sponsoring children who are at work in sweat shop factories, etc), they you have to fast for two months.
 
2013-05-10 02:54:30 PM  

Silverstaff: SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

Fraud?  Misrepresenting one product for another?  Depending on the jurisdiction you might be able to call that criminal.  Not for violating a religious belief, but for willfully mislabeling a product and advertising something as having traits (such as being halal) that it doesn't have.


Unless there were some sort of safety issue or a large price difference, that's a civil court issue. Especially when it's probably going to be hard to pin on one person.
 
2013-05-10 02:54:49 PM  

zabadu: Sure it can. I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.


Negligence, recklessness, depraved indifference = manslaughter.

Murder requires intent.
 
2013-05-10 02:56:21 PM  

FizixJunkee: Sometimes it's "We don't mix meat and milk,


...does that mean they can have cheese, and they can have burger... but they can't has cheezburger?
 
2013-05-10 02:56:39 PM  

fmk040: they you have to fast for two months.

FTFM
 
2013-05-10 02:57:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: zabadu: Sure it can. I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.

Negligence, recklessness, depraved indifference = manslaughter.

Murder requires intent.


Felony murder doesn't.
 
2013-05-10 02:57:21 PM  

Headso: What if you call them steamed hams at the trial instead?


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-10 02:58:17 PM  

zabadu: give me doughnuts: zabadu: fmk040: Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony

I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?

Yeah, we do.
Quran 6:54: "Peace be on you!Your Lord had inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy.Verily if any of you did evil in ignorance,and thereafter repented and amended (his conduct),Lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Even murder?


Murder requires intent, and therfore can't be done "in ignorance."

Sure it can.  I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.

It just seems that quote seems to cover every evil transgression - not any particular.  You forgot to wash your eating hand?  Repent, amend and you are forgiven.  All religions seem to have this out-clause.  Jews- day of atonement.  Catholics - confession.  Oops, my bad.  I repent. I am forgiven.

Yep.


Do you understand what it means to repent and amend?  Or are you being deliberately inflammatory?
 
2013-05-10 02:58:33 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

Kosher salt is actually just the dandruff swept up off of Boca Raton bingo hall floors.


They really need a vomit-inducing voting button on this site.
 
2013-05-10 02:59:00 PM  

Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.


Yeah, a lot of people DO think that.  "It won't hurt them, it'll be good for them!"  (Simpsons did it.)

I kind of depend on the wider market power of muslims, hindus, and jews to have stricter labelling on foods.  Don't get me wrong, it's a different class.  If I eat something that's got animal bits in it, I might get an upset stomach.  Religious person might go to hell.

/stuff like this is exactly the reason I stopped eating meat.
//I'm sure they used the highest possible grade of pork in their cheapest possible burgers
 
2013-05-10 03:01:04 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: The only issue with eating apex predators nowadays is rhe problem of toxin concentrations, but this problem DID NOT EXIST YET when the religious dietary rules were being put in place.


Actually, part of the problem is that predators, even back then, tended to collect parasites.  In addition, the prohibition against eating pork still makes sense - they're closer to humans physically, thus their diseases are more likely to cross(like the aforementioned parasites), but are still herd animals, as you put it, thus can transmit disease that way.
 
2013-05-10 03:01:07 PM  

KiltedBastich: Tatsuma: Notabunny: It's hard to imagine how this could be a mistake. It's easy to imagine how this was done to increase profit. And knowing the meat was going to be labeled halal, it's also easy to imagine this being done out of hate.

Yeah, the mistake thing I don't buy, but frankly I don't think it's out of hatred either. Usually these things happen for one reason and one reason only: more profit.

'Oh you want these specifications, sure? I'm gonna use a substitute it for something cheaper, fark your beliefs I want more profit'

No real reason it couldn't be both. I could easily see a narrow-minded real 'Murican getting his jollies knowing he was boosting his bottom line and sticking it to the Mooslins at the same time.


one place i worked at had both Arabs and filipinos, on the days we had potliuck events guess who put in the un advertised pork in the mix?

it is not just the americans who are pissed off at the arabs
 
2013-05-10 03:03:00 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?

Trichonosis'd be my guess.  People got seriously ill from eating undercooked pig so they took it as a sign from God that they shouldn't.

/can anyone confirm/deny?


Mel Brooks?
 
2013-05-10 03:03:22 PM  

Tatsuma: worst type of people


It's low down, dirty, scum bag behavior but no physical harm happens from that. Child molesters, people who kidnap girls and hold them in basements for 10 years, people who plant bombs in crowds or blow up my office with hijacked airplanes - those are the worst type of people.
 
2013-05-10 03:03:33 PM  

THX 1138: Headso: What if you call them steamed hams at the trial instead?

[25.media.tumblr.com image 400x291]


Good lord what's going on in the kitchen!
 
2013-05-10 03:05:01 PM  
I'm an atheist myself, but I respect other people's faits as long as they don't try to impose them on me.
That said, this is a clear cut case of fraud, and should be prosecuted as such. I really don't give a rat's ass about the religious aspects, if you sell me beef ("beef" on the receipt, "beef" on the packaging etc) then what I'm getting better god damn well be beef, as in from a cow.
If You're selling me meat that is labeled "halal" or "kosher", then it had better be right with my god (if I had one) or it's fraud and therefore illegal.
Not a difficult concept, people.
 
2013-05-10 03:05:05 PM  

fmk040: Yes, aardvark is permissible.

I'll take your word in that. Thankya
 
2013-05-10 03:07:19 PM  

flondrix: nekom: That's why I only eat farm raised catfish.

Are farm raised fish necessarily less contaminated?  Just asking.


Not necessarily, but usually.  You can control what sort of water and other things you put in a pond.  The river is what it is, and we're still suffering the effects of the industrial revolution here.  Lots of PCB's, mercury, lead and such in the river.  Catfish, being bottom feeders, tend to suck that right up.  It's not enough to cause any acute problems, if you ate one out of the river now and then you'd be fine, but if you eat one a week you could wind up with chronic problems.  That's what I've heard, at least.
 
2013-05-10 03:07:36 PM  

zabadu: It just seems that quote seems to cover every evil transgression - not any particular. You forgot to wash your eating hand? Repent, amend and you are forgiven. All religions seem to have this out-clause. Jews- day of atonement. Catholics - confession. Oops, my bad. I repent. I am forgiven.


You seem to be confusing the concepts of atonement and forgiveness with actual atonement and forgiveness.
 
2013-05-10 03:08:12 PM  

Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).


So you just posted to boast about how much of an asshole you are? Do you really think that makes you look cool?

KiltedBastich: Do you enjoy knowing you are entirely predictable? How's that working out for you?


Except that I started replying to your post before you made your second, and either way it was really stupid

robertus: I have learned a thing today.

/Have you favorited as "his taste in music is awesome and we'd all better recognize"


Damn right! I updated the list recently actually
 
2013-05-10 03:10:16 PM  

give me doughnuts: Satan's Bunny Slippers: JustGetItRight:

It doesn't matter why they don't want to eat pork (delicious, wonderful, pork), all that matters is they don't want to eat it, they paid someone to serve a more expensive meat that didn't contain it, and that someone served pork labeled as lamb.

That's theft by deception and it is criminal.

This is it right here.  It DOES NOT MATTER what religion, if any is involved.  It does not matter if you or I personally believe in that religion.  They do, and paid to not eat what they didn't want.   I don't know why all these farkers have to bang on religion as if it's what's wrong here.  Hell, I'm the most non religious person you may ever meet, and I think this is a serious business wrongdoing as in they paid for what they did not get.

Me, try to take my delicious, delicious bacon and I will kill you with my bare hands.


Except they didn't pay. At least not any more than any other taxpayer. They had hissy fits and threatened legal action until the local council gave in and started serving only halal food (or food alleged to be halal).


So the school/council got the product for free from the producers?  How nice.  And I see no mention of "taxpayers".  Statements from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, and the Halal Monitoring Committee, none of which threaten legal action.  Only states that there 'should be' legal action.  No one has filed anything against anyone, just voiced their displeasure.

So, who's threatening legal action, and who did not pay for the product?

Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.

"There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."
 
2013-05-10 03:10:52 PM  

Dr Dreidel: The Mishnah Berurah starts by describing how to start your day - wake up, do the dailies, prayers, yadda yadda - down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you you put on and tie first.


You can't just yadda yadda over the most important part.

yadadrop.com

/ Were you talking about sex or shoplifting?
// I keed, I keed
 
2013-05-10 03:11:06 PM  

Dr Dreidel: zabadu: It just seems that quote seems to cover every evil transgression - not any particular. You forgot to wash your eating hand? Repent, amend and you are forgiven. All religions seem to have this out-clause. Jews- day of atonement. Catholics - confession. Oops, my bad. I repent. I am forgiven.

You seem to be confusing the concepts of atonement and forgiveness with actual atonement and forgiveness.


I guess I just haven't met someone that has atoned and really meant it.  If there is a God, and he forgives you if you just ask, then what is the point?  Why be a good person if you can just say "oops" and get forgiven?
 
2013-05-10 03:12:46 PM  

zyrian: So how do you sue somebody for sending you to imaginary afterlife place with hot climate?


Simple. By stating that they sold you a product claiming that it was such and such when it wasn't.

If I am being sold meat that has been labeled as being beef from cows only to find out that it is actually horse meat, I can sue them for not giving me what I had ordered. Same rule applies here. You don't need to bring God into it.

It's funny how people are laughing over religious dietary restrictions and how these people should get over it. If I ordered an Angus beef hamburger, you better believe I expect to get an Angus beef hamburger and not something else. If I am lied to,  you should expect for me to get upset.
 
2013-05-10 03:12:47 PM  

fmk040: Do you understand what it means to repent and amend?  Or are you being deliberately inflammatory?


haven't you been here long enough to know it's the latter
 
2013-05-10 03:12:58 PM  

berylman: fmk040: Yes, aardvark is permissible.
I'll take your word in that. Thankya


They may be called ground pigs, but they're not from the family suidae.  Commonly accepted belief is that anything 'porcine' would fall into that category, although, taxonomy is not my area of expertise.
Also, where did you get aardvark?
 
2013-05-10 03:13:06 PM  
Who the hell eats lamburgers?
theinspirationroom.com
Oh.


and t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-10 03:13:25 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Good lord what's going on in the kitchen!



Ummm...  Aurora Borealis?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-10 03:13:47 PM  

Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).


At no point in time were you ever a "chef" and you have forever lost any right to call yourself one, experience aside. You were a glorified line cook and a piece of shiat, and an embarassment to the human race, and I think most every Farker agrees.
 
2013-05-10 03:15:14 PM  

loonatic112358: fmk040: Do you understand what it means to repent and amend?  Or are you being deliberately inflammatory?

haven't you been here long enough to know it's the latter


Hope spring eternal, ya know?
 
2013-05-10 03:15:26 PM  

Tatsuma: Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.


Hold the phone... don't all extremists that blow shiat up claim that they are following their particular commands of their assumed creator? Maybe they won't go wrong, but most certainly, an extremist will justify wrong-doing in the name of their deity.

Anyway... how's the weather out your way? Here, it started off raining and crappy, and has bloomed into a full court press mild summer day. I shouldn't even be here today... haha
 
2013-05-10 03:15:54 PM  
TIL if i travel to Europe, go vegetarian for the whole damned trip

though considering the stupidity of the US meat packing industry.......
 
2013-05-10 03:17:18 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: o noes, muslims were tricked into eating delicious pig, which goes against their cult!

[media.tumblr.com image 289x240]


I assume that all of the "fark 'em, who cares" types in this thread wouldn't be upset if they were told that the burger they'd just finished eating contained human semen.
 
2013-05-10 03:17:30 PM  

special20: Hold the phone... don't all extremists that blow shiat up claim that they are following their particular commands of their assumed creator? Maybe they won't go wrong, but most certainly, an extremist will justify wrong-doing in the name of their deity.


I was specifically talking about Judaism.
 
2013-05-10 03:17:48 PM  

fmk040: loonatic112358: fmk040: Do you understand what it means to repent and amend?  Or are you being deliberately inflammatory?

haven't you been here long enough to know it's the latter

Hope spring eternal, ya know?


the internet will kill your hopes

/also this thread makes me wish i went to the kabob shop for lunch instead of fast food
 
2013-05-10 03:18:38 PM  

zabadu: I guess I just haven't met someone that has atoned and really meant it. If there is a God, and he forgives you if you just ask, then what is the point? Why be a good person if you can just say "oops" and get forgiven?


Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) only deals with transgressions of a religious nature (did you follow the laws of kashrut?). To get forgiveness from your fellow people, there is no amount of prayer that can get you there.

The only way to get that forgiven - and this may seem weird to the non-religious folks - is to beg forgiveness from the people you wronged. (Of course, they shouldn't be dicks about it. If you're sincere in your apologies and have really tried to make it right and they still won't forgive you even after repeated overtures, THEY'RE in the wrong.)

You can't just say "oops" and all is forgiven (part of the reason YK services are so godsdamned long is to make sure you REALLY mean it - if not the first time, maybe the 10,054th time). Maimonedes wrote a whole treatise about what atonement really means, if you'd like to know more.
 
2013-05-10 03:18:54 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.


No, it is false advertising. Selling a product that isnt what it says it is. These folks intentionally try to eat certain foods a certain way. They read halal and believe it is lamb. What they actually got was completely different.

Nice way to open up your salvo of insults to their beliefs by the way. That being said, I agree with tatsuma here. A trace amount of pork is one thing but some of the burgers having 50 % pork sounds like they are substituting cheaper meat to keep their costs down. The consumer was being lied too.
 
2013-05-10 03:19:00 PM  
I don't mind it, religious people's beliefs are stupid and they should be punished for their stupidity. Feed them all offal from the floor of a pork plant. Jews too.
 
2013-05-10 03:20:48 PM  

Primum: I don't mind it, religious people's beliefs are stupid and they should be punished for their stupidity. Feed them all offal from the floor of a pork plant. Jews too.


4/10 just inflammatory enough to get some bites but your heart wasn't in it and the card has been played enough in this thread. Better luck next time.
 
2013-05-10 03:21:58 PM  

Dr Dreidel: The only way to get that forgiven - and this may seem weird to the non-religious folks - is to beg forgiveness from the people you wronged. (Of course, they shouldn't be dicks about it. If you're sincere in your apologies and have really tried to make it right and they still won't forgive you even after repeated overtures, THEY'RE in the wrong.)


Also, in certain situations G-d can step in and forgive you even if the other party decides not to forgive you and hold a grudge instead. You still have to try as hard as you can to rectify things, though.

Oh and also all Orthodox Jews recite the Nighttime Shema, which absolves any Jew from any transgressions done against us so they are not punished on our account by saying we forgive them.
 
2013-05-10 03:23:06 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: special20: cc_rider: special20: Tatsuma: Coming on a Bicycle: Why? Because they insult your invisible sky monster and the stuff he or she supposedly wrote up as a set of rules? Sure, it's a bit screwy of them, but they serve otherwise healthy food.

So it's alright to give product animals to vegans, because fark them and their stupid choices?

Very mature.

But bring vegan is a choice. Not dogma.

Strict adherence to religion is also a "choice", as is being an asshat and serving/selling someone a product that goes against their beliefs.

Agreed - it was wrong to serve a food product to people who do believe that consuming it obliterates their chance to enter heaven. I suppose strict adherence through guilt explains why so many kids get baptized before they even have a choice for themselves. Yup. Nice grey area there. Let's talk about politics now.

It doesn't work like that - not all religions are like Christianity. You don't get to 'not go to heaven' because you do something that is forbidden - you're supposed to keep yourself 'clean' and the only enforcers of it are your neighbors - the clan if you will.


To put it simply... If one is born into a religion, they may not have a choice but to practice that belief. It might take quite some time in a person's life when they find that nobody has any proof that any godlike being exists. By that time, if everyone in your clan is opposed to your view point, you do have a choice to move on, or be... what... stoned? So - how does it work, then? You seem to know.
 
2013-05-10 03:24:22 PM  
Unlike those who would complain for religious reasons about how this is a savage attack on their faith, I need to point out that some people are allergic to pork (me) and this could be a deadly burger (or maybe just itchy)
 
2013-05-10 03:27:04 PM  

BKITU: SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

But mislabeling product is a crime in the UK. He's invoking the religious angle to show the consequences of the crime.


There is no religious consequence. At least not for Muslims. If they eat non-halal foods either because nothing else is present or when it is "contaminated" without the knowledge of the person eating it then it is not a breach of halal rules. The people buying the burgers didn't know they weren't actually halal so there will be no divine retribution.
 
2013-05-10 03:27:47 PM  

ShawnDoc: farkeruk: So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".

Oh, I'm not arguing that the dietary rules still belong, just pointing out that back in the days before science there were lots of reasons to ban pork.

Although, trichinosis, including brain eating worms, is still a problem in much of the world, due to poor sanitary conditions.  There's actually been an increase in recent years due to people eating pork in Mexico while on vacation.


One of our neighbors was diagnosed with a "brain tumor", except it wasn't, it was pork tapeworms in his brain. Sleep tight!
 
2013-05-10 03:28:16 PM  
oh no God put meat in the burger.  what does this make God now
 
2013-05-10 03:28:45 PM  

Tatsuma: special20: Hold the phone... don't all extremists that blow shiat up claim that they are following their particular commands of their assumed creator? Maybe they won't go wrong, but most certainly, an extremist will justify wrong-doing in the name of their deity.

I was specifically talking about Judaism.


Oh, I guess I need to get with the... pogrom?

(pun)
 
2013-05-10 03:32:33 PM  

Kibbler: Dr. Goldshnoz: o noes, muslims were tricked into eating delicious pig, which goes against their cult!

[media.tumblr.com image 289x240]

I assume that all of the "fark 'em, who cares" types in this thread wouldn't be upset if they were told that the burger they'd just finished eating contained human semen.


Hell, I just assume that.
 
2013-05-10 03:32:59 PM  

special20: Tatsuma: special20: Hold the phone... don't all extremists that blow shiat up claim that they are following their particular commands of their assumed creator? Maybe they won't go wrong, but most certainly, an extremist will justify wrong-doing in the name of their deity.

I was specifically talking about Judaism.

Oh, I guess I need to get with the... pogrom?

(pun)


you trying to slay him?
 
2013-05-10 03:33:26 PM  

awalkingecho: Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).

At no point in time were you ever a "chef" and you have forever lost any right to call yourself one, experience aside. You were a glorified line cook and a piece of shiat, and an embarassment to the human race, and I think most every Farker agrees.


Don't speak for me.

He shouldn't have done it but if they never find out it's better than spitting in their food.  There is no invisible sky wizard who is going to stop them at the gates of heaven for unwittingly eating food that touched pork, grow up.
 
2013-05-10 03:35:22 PM  

ProfessorOhki: give me doughnuts: zabadu: Sure it can. I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.

Negligence, recklessness, depraved indifference = manslaughter.

Murder requires intent.

Felony murder doesn't.



Was the felonious act intentional? Or were you accidentally commiting armed robbery when your partner got killed?
 
2013-05-10 03:35:50 PM  

jaybeezey: darth_badger: I have to drive all the way to Kemah and go to Tookie's to get a burger like that and they get then in school!

Tookie's is my jam!


I need a Piggyback, order of onion rings and an order of fries with sweet tea, and then a Squealer for dessert.
 
2013-05-10 03:35:58 PM  

Firethorn: Actually, part of the problem is that predators, even back then, tended to collect parasites.


Not in any appreciable way from their prey.
They have their own personal variety.

Wolves don't get ticks from the deer they eat. They get them from the grass they brush against.
Lions don't get trypanasomes from eating wildebeast, they get them from the tsetse flies that bite lions.

And again, humans love eating large predatory fish; groupers, swordfish, tuna, etc.
If parasite accumulation in predators is a dietary concern, why is it only a dietary concern in land animals?
 
2013-05-10 03:36:20 PM  
Paragon Quality Foods?

More like Renegade Quality Foods.
 
TWX
2013-05-10 03:37:24 PM  
Occam's Razor.

Don't chock up to religious bigotry what can be attributed to non-religious profit motives.

In the horsemeat scandal it was demonstrated that meat went through many abattoirs on the way to being packaged into the final product. Unfortunately any of those slaughterhouses or processors could have made the substitution and without there being DNA testing along the way it's very unlikely that the substitution would ever be caught. Some abattoir or processor decided to make some profit by subbing in a different meat, probably with no religious motivation at all given the small number of Muslims in Europe and no way of knowing the destination of the product.
 
2013-05-10 03:39:25 PM  

Digital Communist: awalkingecho: Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).

At no point in time were you ever a "chef" and you have forever lost any right to call yourself one, experience aside. You were a glorified line cook and a piece of shiat, and an embarassment to the human race, and I think most every Farker agrees.

Don't speak for me.

He shouldn't have done it but if they never find out it's better than spitting in their food.  There is no invisible sky wizard who is going to stop them at the gates of heaven for unwittingly eating food that touched pork, grow up.


I didn't speak for you. I said most. And just because your convictions lie on one line does not mean it is acceptable to disrespect someone else's.
 
2013-05-10 03:40:12 PM  

zabadu: It just seems that quote seems to cover every evil transgression - not any particular.  You forgot to wash your eating hand?  Repent, amend and you are forgiven.  All religions seem to have this out-clause.  Jews- day of atonement.  Catholics - confession.  Oops, my bad.  I repent. I am forgiven.


That's because nobody's stupid enough to imagine that a human being who isn't stillborn could actually go through life without committing some sort of transgression. Imagine belonging to a religion that didn't have an "out-clause". "Oh dear, I have sinned, no way to take that back now, I am definitely destined for eternal torment in the fires of perdition. Ah well, might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb; I guess I'll go out and murder everyone I don't like."
 
2013-05-10 03:45:11 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: So the school/council got the product for free from the producers? How nice. And I see no mention of "taxpayers". Statements from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, and the Halal Monitoring Committee, none of which threaten legal action. Only states that there 'should be' legal action. No one has filed anything against anyone, just voiced their displeasure.

So, who's threatening legal action, and who did not pay for the product?



As I said before, these are publically financed schools, paid for the local council taxes (paid by Muslims and non-Muslims alike). Kinda like property taxes in the US paying for public schools. So everybody that pays the council taxes pays for the cafeteria food (you don't actually think the entire cost is defrayed by what is charged for lunches, do you?). The only reason they serve halal food at all is due to threats and complaints to the council by the Muslim community.
 
2013-05-10 03:48:43 PM  

Nattering Nabob: RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...

There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick


USDA Recommended Safe Minimum Internal Temperatures

Cook all raw beef, pork, lamb and veal steaks, chops, and roasts to a minimum internal temperature of 145 °F as measured with a food thermometer before removing meat from the heat source. For safety and quality, allow meat to rest for at least three minutes before carving or consuming. For reasons of personal preference, consumers may choose to cook meat to higher temperatures.
 
2013-05-10 03:50:37 PM  

loonatic112358: special20: Tatsuma: special20: Hold the phone... don't all extremists that blow shiat up claim that they are following their particular commands of their assumed creator? Maybe they won't go wrong, but most certainly, an extremist will justify wrong-doing in the name of their deity.

I was specifically talking about Judaism.

Oh, I guess I need to get with the... pogrom?

(pun)

you trying to slay him?


No, not halal.
 
2013-05-10 03:51:10 PM  
i.imgur.com
Too soon?
 
2013-05-10 03:51:41 PM  

trappedspirit: USDA Recommended Safe Minimum Internal TemperaturesCook all raw beef, pork, lamb and veal steaks, chops, and roasts to a minimum internal temperature of 145 °F as measured with a food thermometer before removing meat from the heat source. For safety and quality, allow meat to rest for at least three minutes before carving or consuming. For reasons of personal preference, consumers may choose to cook meat to higher temperatures.


cook chicken to 165  °F
 
2013-05-10 03:56:20 PM  

nekom: Neither horse nor pork will kill you.


I dunno about pork... but horse....

art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-05-10 03:57:34 PM  
No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.

I don't care if it is according to the tenets of your faith, that's just mean. Slaughterhouses are all kind of terrifying and grisly places, but at least give the animal a quick and relatively painless death.
 
2013-05-10 03:58:21 PM  

give me doughnuts: ProfessorOhki: give me doughnuts: zabadu: Sure it can. I didn't know the gun was loaded, for one.

Negligence, recklessness, depraved indifference = manslaughter.

Murder requires intent.

Felony murder doesn't.


Was the felonious act intentional? Or were you accidentally commiting armed robbery when your partner got killed?


Eh, you're arguing transfer of intent. If you rob a bank and your partner is killed by the police, you can be charged with their murder. It's a pretty safe bet neither of you intended on being caught in the first place.

I also seem to recall reading of a heart-attack death after two family members kidnapped a child from a third family member, but can't find it.
 
2013-05-10 03:58:28 PM  
Look, you cawnpore over the contents of every burger; it's just bad lucknow and again that pig meat sometimes gets into the ostensibly non-pig meat.  So you sepoys and girls just bite the bullet and eat your lunches, mkay?

24.media.tumblr.com

Because those school administrators will havelock down on any students who make trouble about this.
 
2013-05-10 03:59:30 PM  

farkeruk: Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."

What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


Yes, obviously. All religions have their arbitrary rules. Welcome to Planet Earth? ;)

Personally I think this is reprehensible. Food labeling is serious business. I don't give a rats ass about religious pork restrictions but if food makers will fark around with the religious people for profit they'll just as happily fark around with me for profit. Prison time and big bucks in civil court is completely reasonable for lying to people about what's in their food.
 
2013-05-10 03:59:43 PM  
actually, I think it's kind of funny.  monty python in real life.

/ i'm probably the only one, though.  flame away.
 
2013-05-10 04:00:44 PM  

Nattering Nabob: One of our neighbors was diagnosed with a "brain tumor", except it wasn't, it was pork tapeworms in his brain. Sleep tight!


STOP EATING PIGS FED WITH HUMAN shiat.

For god's sake, pork tapeworms should be going the way of the guinea worm at this point. Unlike trichinosis, the only carriers are humans and pigs, and the only ways the pigs can catch it is if they eat human waste.

There is no excuse for anyone in the modern world to be exposed to it.
 
2013-05-10 04:01:10 PM  

Tatsuma: KiltedBastich: Do you enjoy knowing you are entirely predictable? How's that working out for you?

Except that I started replying to your post before you made your second, and either way it was really stupid


So you're saying it's really stupid to imagine someone who might think it's worthwhile to service their profit margin and their xenophobia at the same time? Or are you saying that it's implausible to hypothesize a xenophobic American wanting to stick it to Muslims? Do explain, this should be good.
 
2013-05-10 04:04:30 PM  

Nattering Nabob: RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real world...

There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick


Of course, if it's in a burger (or ground or needle-tenderized or in any other way has had the outside surfaces come in contact with the inside), it all has to go up to 155°F.  If it's poultry, wild game, or if it has stuffing, it has to go to 165.  Pork used to have to go up to 150something, but it's recently been lowered to 145 like beef and lamb now that trichinosis in the US isn't as widespread anymore.

/culinary student
//have to be able to recite these temperatures cold
 
2013-05-10 04:06:25 PM  
A DNA test found the burger contained between 10 and 50% pork.

Well, that seems like a very precise test.
 
2013-05-10 04:12:47 PM  

give me doughnuts: Satan's Bunny Slippers: So the school/council got the product for free from the producers? How nice. And I see no mention of "taxpayers". Statements from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, and the Halal Monitoring Committee, none of which threaten legal action. Only states that there 'should be' legal action. No one has filed anything against anyone, just voiced their displeasure.

So, who's threatening legal action, and who did not pay for the product?


As I said before, these are publically financed schools, paid for the local council taxes (paid by Muslims and non-Muslims alike). Kinda like property taxes in the US paying for public schools. So everybody that pays the council taxes pays for the cafeteria food (you don't actually think the entire cost is defrayed by what is charged for lunches, do you?). The only reason they serve halal food at all is due to threats and complaints to the council by the Muslim community.


I don't think we are arguing the same thing.  The upshot is a product was not as it was represented, no matter WHO paid for it.  I did not see anything in the article stating that the only reason they serve Halal is because of complaints and threats from the Muslim community.  And of course I understand the basis of the cost of school lunches, but since it's for ALL the children (the subsidized lunch offerings) and not just Muslim kids, I don't know why that is an issue.  SOMEONE paid for lamb burgers and got pork.  Offering Halal is no different than offering vegetarian or vegan choices.

Pork is not lamb.  Lamb is not pork.  Neither is a veggie so it would be bad to offer vegetarian burgers that the school purchased to find that there was lamb or pork in them.

Religion has nothing to do with it, and farkers who are making it all about religion are being asshats.

I'm quite non religious, just to refresh.
 
2013-05-10 04:15:13 PM  
"For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith."

If the most important, most sacred part of this religion, that which defines it above all else, which represents a believer's faith to the world, the faith to the believer themselves, is the lens through which the world is described to them, and if in fact the very heart of their faith is "being picky about eating a certain type of food or not", I think the world would be a much nicer placer to live in.

If that's the case, you'd hear Holy War, and think "In-N-Out" vs. "Five Guys", or "New York Style" vs" Chicago Deep Dish", and your prophets would write up the daily scripture in the 'Social/Living' section of the newspaper.

However, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe someone was overstating the importance of a given food to this religion, like most religious extremists do about anything associated with their religion.
 
2013-05-10 04:16:30 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Wolves don't get ticks from the deer they eat. They get them from the grass they brush against.
Lions don't get trypanasomes from eating wildebeast, they get them from the tsetse flies that bite lions.


There's more parasites out there, and some do come from prey animals, such as Toxoplasma gondii.  And the bio accumulation of toxins has been around for a long time.

We eat predator fish because they're the big and available ones, and fish is alien enough from us that we generally don't have to worry about their parasites.
 
2013-05-10 04:18:22 PM  

give me doughnuts: No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.

I don't care if it is according to the tenets of your faith, that's just mean. Slaughterhouses are all kind of terrifying and grisly places, but at least give the animal a quick and relatively painless death.


It's actually not done in the same slaughterhouse conditions.  The animal must not be anesthetized or stunned, true, but care is also taken to not put the animal in undue stress or pain, right down to not sharpening the knife in front of it.

Now, do ALL Halal butchers comply?  Probably not.  But all in all, it's not any worse than what happens to a chicken, or when that stun rod crushes through a steer's head.

The slaughterer must be an adult Muslim, and holder of a current slaughtering license accorded by Meat Hygiene Service.

Zibah is the method or the act of slaughter also known as zibah-al-Ikhtiyaariy by which an animal or a bird is slaughtered by a Muslim by saying shahada or tasmiya, Bismillah Allahu Akbar. If the slaughter is not done by zibah method, any meat or derivatives from such carcasses cannot be deemed to be halal or permissible for Muslims to consume. Requirements for zibah are:

The knife to be used must be razor sharp; the blade must be straight and smooth, and free from any serration, pits, notches or damage. The length of the blade must be at least four times the width of the neck of the animal to be slaughtered. The blade must not flex noticeably whence in use.The animal must not be anaesthetised, stunned to be killed or otherwise rendered wholly insensible prior to slaughter. It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.Poultry and other birds must be restrained either in an upright or prone position for slaughter.Lamb, sheep, goats, calves (of less than 60kg dead weight) and other similar sized animals must be placed on a cradle for slaughter and if hung on shackles all efforts are made that they do not injure or bruise themselves.Larger bovines, equines, deer and similar sized animals must be restrained in a standing position for slaughter.The act of slaughter (Zibah-al-Ikhtiyaariy) must be done with a simple swipe across the neck. The cut should not be any deeper than necessary to sever the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe and must not sever the spinal cord. The slaughterer must pronounce aloud or under lip the Arabic words, Bismillah, AllahuAkbar (in the name of Allah, Allah is the greatest) in a reverential tone (if possible), when slaughtering. The Jugular vein, windpipe and carotid artery should be cut by a single swipe of a sharp knife, without damage to the spinal cord.After being slaughtered, lambs, sheep, goats and other similar sized animals must be restrained in situ for at least 20 seconds. Bovine and other similarly sized animals must be restrained in situ for 60 seconds. Poultry and other birds must not be subjected to any further processing for at least 20 seconds. During the aforementioned period they must not be further injured, nor subjected to unnecessary stress or pain. Indeed it is desirable that efforts are made to clam them during this period.The slaughterer must clean the knife after slaughter of every animal or bird and must check that the knife still conforms to above rules. If damaged, the knife must be replaced. If it is no longer razor sharp, it must be sharpened, say, on a flat stone and approved by an HFA inspector before further use. Note that the knife must not be sharpened in sight of animals awaiting slaughter.The slaughterer or supervisor must ensure that all the flowing blood has been drained from the chicken or ovine or bovine carcass.The water used during the poultry de-feathering process must be at the lowest practical temperature in vogue.No dorsal cut is allowed, since this method would slice or sever the spinal cord and the bird or the animal is rendered incapacitated to convulse to drain the flowing blood out of the carcassAt the abattoir, slaughterhouse, distribution centre and retail outlets, DEFRA (Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs), Meat Hygiene Services (MHS), European Union (EU) and local hygiene laws and regulations should always be adhered to, and strictly followed at every stage of the process.
 
2013-05-10 04:19:40 PM  

give me doughnuts: No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.


Actually kosher slaughter is a lot more humane than stunning. The blade is extremely sharp, and done in one swift motion. Basically all the arteries that feed blood to the brain are cut, and the animal loses consciousness almost instantly (1 to 3 seconds) and the rest is all nerves and automatic responses. The animal does not suffer that way

KiltedBastich: Do explain, this should be good.


This is about something a UK school and a European distributor, and you tried to make it about the evils of the Tea Party. That's why it's so farking stupid.
 
2013-05-10 04:30:35 PM  

Tatsuma: KiltedBastich: Do explain, this should be good.

This is about something a UK school and a European distributor, and you tried to make it about the evils of the Tea Party. That's why it's so farking stupid.


Except, no, I didn't. I explained that literally seconds later when I noted, obviously correctly, that I had been initially unclear about my meaning. You jumped the gun anyhow despite my clarification of my point. I offered a familiar example to illustrate my hypothesis, and when I pointed out that I had already made clear I wasn't saying it was an actual American xenophobe later on (note, you're the only person in this exchange who used the term Tea Party, I never put those words into any of my posts), you doubled down and said it's still stupid.

So, please explain why the things I actually stated, as opposed to your knee jerk projections and misinterpretations about what I stated, are actually stupid. Go on, I want to watch you paint yourself even further into a corner.
 
2013-05-10 04:34:27 PM  
Then it's halol,
...right?
 
2013-05-10 04:36:09 PM  

Tatsuma: give me doughnuts: No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.

Actually kosher slaughter is a lot more humane than stunning. The blade is extremely sharp, and done in one swift motion. Basically all the arteries that feed blood to the brain are cut, and the animal loses consciousness almost instantly (1 to 3 seconds) and the rest is all nerves and automatic responses. The animal does not suffer that way

KiltedBastich: Do explain, this should be good.

This is about something a UK school and a European distributor, and you tried to make it about the evils of the Tea Party. That's why it's so farking stupid.


FFS, the same un-sourced mumbo-jumbo in every discussion about kosher/halal slaughter.  Care to provide a source that's not from b'nai brith?

How about this one:  http://www.fve.org/news/position_papers/animal_welfare/fve_02_104_sl au ghter_prior_stunning.pdf
 
2013-05-10 04:39:56 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: The length of the blade must be at least four times the width of the neck of the animal to be slaughtered.


Cow sword!
 
2013-05-10 04:43:00 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: While religious dietary restrictions are mostly silly, it doesn't mean you can do this.


This. The wholly secular principle of "your food should be what it says on the tin" is worth defending even when it says something pointless on the tin.

If you want to label your meatballs as "whiffleblodget", which is defined as consisting solely of a 50-50 mix of salmon and beef, I might think it's silly that anyone would think it's a sin against FSM to eat spaghetti with non-whiffleblodget meatballs - but once you stick the "whiffleblodget" label on the wrapper, it damn well better be half salmon and half beef.

/in before holy war over "by weight" vs. "by volume"
 
2013-05-10 04:50:20 PM  

Tatsuma: It's not just hooves, it's having split hooves and chewing the cud. And it's a specific splitting as well, same goes for the way the cud is chewed.


Always confused me, though, that it specified rabbits as chewing the cud, when they don't. What's the deal with that?
 
2013-05-10 04:58:04 PM  

Digital Communist: FFS, the same un-sourced mumbo-jumbo in every discussion about kosher/halal slaughter. Care to provide a source that's not from b'nai brith?


Well, while "humane" has to be loosely defined, kosher/halal butchers are commanded by God to make the animal happy and comfortable, and to provide a pleasant and reassuring presence to comfort the animal while it dies, to ease it's passing as a sacrifice for our well being.  I'm sure there's people who respect animals at other slaughterhouses, as well, but I'd have trouble believing they aren't more about throughput and getting the next animal in the stall.
 
2013-05-10 04:59:08 PM  

netizencain: UK meat that doesn't contain Horse?  WTF?


Came in here for this...

farkeruk: What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


It's an interesting question I guess, but I don't have to believe in word one of any of it to still think that the issue (for the supplier) isn't about respecting some supposed god but rather respecting the feelings of his customer.

I might think your dietary rules are pointless, but I won't make you violate them unawares, that's disrespecting YOU.

orbister: Generally I don't care what people eat, but I'm buggered if I can see why local authority schools should pander to a bunch of iron age superstitions, particularly when it involves significant cruelty to animals.


The problem is that claimed they WERE pandering, when actually they weren't.

If the school says "fark you, all meals here have 50% bacon content and if you don't like it you can pack a sack lunch" at least that would be honest.

Anyway though - I find it amusing how locally to me there are plenty of people who will get all up in arms in the letters column about how religious dietary rules are pandering and stupid and lol fark the muslims or whatever it is, and then turn around full of outrage at the idea of horse slaughterhouses selling meat to willing markets.  Somehow "we don't eat horses! eat a dog? Hell no that's fighting words!" is "normal" but not wanting to eat pigs isn't...
 
2013-05-10 04:59:32 PM  

loonatic112358: sounds like lazy meat packer just shoving whatever was handy down the grinder


That's what subbys mom said
 
2013-05-10 05:01:55 PM  
\

jackmalice: Paragon Quality Foods?

More like Renegade Quality Foods.


With a high probability of a punch to the face.
 
2013-05-10 05:02:54 PM  

ColdFusion: Tatsuma: It's not just hooves, it's having split hooves and chewing the cud. And it's a specific splitting as well, same goes for the way the cud is chewed.

Always confused me, though, that it specified rabbits as chewing the cud, when they don't. What's the deal with that?


They do something similar enough for translation between languages to account for the rest.  They pre-digest, and then re-eat and re-digest their food, which counts.
 
2013-05-10 05:07:34 PM  
It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?
 
2013-05-10 05:07:57 PM  

Raharu: I sure am glad that I'm not held back or riddled with guilt by bronze age fairy tale based dietary restrictions.

Its nice to be able to enjoy any food I wish, with no feelings of moral guilt.


I can understand why some things like pork would be verboten way back in the day before people had a complete understanding of cooking meats thoroughly and hygiene and all that jazz. Someone made some basic connection that eating or doing X increases the risk of dying from weird unknown cause Y. Nowadays it makes little sense, at least in a modern educated society.
 
2013-05-10 05:10:56 PM  

keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?


Well, it's a bit hard to slaughter something that's already dead.
 
2013-05-10 05:14:00 PM  

keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?


Religion is arbitrary. But completely off the top of my head: if it's alive when slaughtered then the meat is fresh. No chance of accidentally eating something that is "past".
 
2013-05-10 05:18:50 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).

I'm sure you think you make the world a better place too.


Nope, I'm an asshole.
 
2013-05-10 05:22:19 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-10 05:24:40 PM  
So their sky wizard will torment them eternally now?
 
2013-05-10 05:30:17 PM  

I Ate Shergar: keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?

Well, it's a bit hard to slaughter something that's already dead.


Damnit!
 
2013-05-10 06:00:03 PM  
On the one hand, dick move.

On the other, I'm sure there's some sort of ritual or magic words that will make this all better.
 
2013-05-10 06:02:42 PM  
Allah will be PISSED!

(poor little deity. So easy to hurt his feelings, Awwww)
 
2013-05-10 06:33:15 PM  

nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.


In Italy, they sell horse right next to the beef. In fact, it is considered healthier than beef or pork, and Italians give it tot heir children if they think they might be anemic (high iron content apparently)

They also served it in the company cafeteria in Bologna a few times when I worked there. And you know what? It tasted like lean roast-beef. It was good. IMHO it is a slightly better meat than beef (which I love) - it seems healthier, less fatty, and still tasty. I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel. But then, I'm not a cowboy.

I still like Lamb better, but that's the whole New Zealand thing (wife is a kiwi)
 
2013-05-10 06:35:49 PM  

ISO15693: nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

In Italy, they sell horse right next to the beef. In fact, it is considered healthier than beef or pork, and Italians give it tot heir children if they think they might be anemic (high iron content apparently)

They also served it in the company cafeteria in Bologna a few times when I worked there. And you know what? It tasted like lean roast-beef. It was good. IMHO it is a slightly better meat than beef (which I love) - it seems healthier, less fatty, and still tasty. I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel. But then, I'm not a cowboy.

I still like Lamb better, but that's the whole New Zealand thing (wife is a kiwi)


your wife is a FRUIT?
 
2013-05-10 06:39:29 PM  
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
2013-05-10 07:42:31 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

It's the kind of salt used in the kashering process - good at drawing out blood from proto-steaks.

// anything with any kind of blood in it ain't kosher


Also no iodine. That's kind of a big part too. Iodine can come from lots of sources - dairy, shellfish... while yogurt is a good source it complicates matters for people who don't want to mix their meat and milk. Companies who don't list where they got their iodine could be perceived as a problem.

It's one of those happy etymological things... it's for koshering and it is, itself, kosher. Good times.
 
2013-05-10 08:00:00 PM  
meridianmeats.ca

Double Jeopardy...
 
2013-05-10 08:05:02 PM  

Molavian: On the one hand, dick move.

On the other, I'm sure there's some sort of ritual or magic words that will make this all better.


Well, "I'm sorry" would be a good start, at least, that's what I learned in kindergarten.

That lesson seems to have escaped most Farkers here, though.
 
2013-05-10 08:32:09 PM  
farm4.static.flickr.com
No wonder that stuff is so tasty!
 
2013-05-10 09:31:41 PM  

iwatts: rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".


I would save the "worst" label for people who do things like kill people or lock up teenage girls in their rape dungeons for a decade. But that's just me.
 
2013-05-10 10:08:49 PM  

gshepnyc: The worst part of this story is that people still think need to eat special magically elevated food. Kosher and Halal eaters - go fark yourselves.



This is how you sound:

"I'm angry that people are different than me in any way. My arbitrary decisions are the ones that others must conform to."


This is what you said paraphrased to show how much of a numbskull you are:

Its the 21st century, and you still have people who refuse to eat dairy products because they're lactose intolerant? Fark you! You should learn to be more tolerant and join the rest of society.
 
2013-05-10 11:33:33 PM  

Tatsuma: give me doughnuts: No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.

Actually kosher slaughter is a lot more humane than stunning. The blade is extremely sharp, and done in one swift motion. Basically all the arteries that feed blood to the brain are cut, and the animal loses consciousness almost instantly (1 to 3 seconds) and the rest is all nerves and automatic responses. The animal does not suffer that way

KiltedBastich: Do explain, this should be good.

This is about something a UK school and a European distributor, and you tried to make it about the evils of the Tea Party. That's why it's so farking stupid.


Not really, Tats.  And I say this as a Muslim, and one who keeps both halal and zabihah.  Kosher slaughter and halal slaughter have many similarities, to the point of being almost identical, but to suggest that the animal loses consciousness almost instantly, along with it's autonomic and nervous system responses is inaccurate.  Brain death will certainly take more than 3 seconds, sometimes even up to half a minute for larger animals.
Stunning, OTOH, if done properly, allows for autonomic nervous responses to keep the heart pumping, but dulls the mechanism of action of the afferent nociceptors.  Yes, it is essentially a blow to the head, but the animal's sensation of pain is dulled.
 
2013-05-10 11:55:36 PM  

farkeruk: Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick

But none of these religions forbid eating chicken, despite chicken carrying salmonella that is far more likely to make you sick than pork.


There are a few books which argue it's more about preventing people from eating too many of their animals during times of food shortage.  That "don't eat the cows" is a meme* that evolved as part of Hinduism in India, for example, because societies that had that meme survived in times of shortages whereas societies that lacked the prohibition will slaughter all the cows for meat and then have no cows for milk or work after the immediate crisis passed.

*In the original sense of the word, not the modern lolcat usage of "meme"
 
2013-05-11 12:06:51 AM  
I Halal'd
 
2013-05-11 03:24:31 AM  

ISO15693: I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel.


Horses are cute.
 
2013-05-11 03:53:58 AM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real modern developed world where things like Rift valley fever and trichinosis and other diseases contractable through pork really don't exist all that much and the conditions are suitable for raising swine...


FTFY. :3

FWIW: It's actually strongly suspected by folks studying Abrahamic religions that the general prohibitions against pork in Judaism and Islam may well have been either a preventive measure against illnesses associated with pork consumption and/or because the Levant and Arabia are generally pretty crappy places to try to raise heat-intolerant livestock who can't sweat.

Among other things, there is not only the trichinosis risk but also the risk of diseases (Rift Valley Fever being the big one) that generally don't exist in other hog-raising areas, and yes, it IS possible to contract Rift Valley Fever from slaughtering hogs--and RVF has been in the area for a good long time, longer than measles has been around and pigs would be particularly susceptible due to needing to have a regular water source more readily than cattle or sheep.

About the closest areas to the Levant that raised swine were in Greece (which does not have a history of zoonotic illnesses transmitted by swine) and an early semidomestication event in the Tigris Basin around 11,000-13,000 BCE (which may well have served long enough by the time Judaism forked from the Old Mesopotamian Religion to show some zoonotic risks from raising pork--also, swine culture is ill suited for semi-nomadic peoples in arid and semiarid environments)--quite probably the only reason Christianity didn't adopt an equivalent to halal or kosher food regs is that (by the time it was canonised) it was not only heavily Hellenicised but Romanised (and in fact, some of the very oldest branches of Christianity--for example, the Dewahedo Orthodox churches of Ethiopia and Eritrea (which specifically prohibit pork consumption), the Coptic Church of Egypt (also generally disapproving of pork--this may be from pre-Abrahamic tradition), and particularly the Maronite Church of Lebanon and the West Bank--DO actually still have some food restrictions, with the Maronite Church in particular still keeping some kosher food laws and some early Christian writings generally condemning the consumption of food that has not been thoroughly cooked--which would also protect against foodborne illness).

The fact that pretty much every culture surrounding the Levant (aside from the Greeks) also had some very specific taboos against raising or consuming pork (Egyptians, Mesopotamians following the Old Religion in Babylon, Syrians, and Phonecians ALSO had explicit "no pork" rules in their cultures) points rather strongly and clearly to a widely recognised public health risk regarding pork in the ancient Levant and Nile Valley to the point that NOBODY wanted to touch it...and I'd not be shocked to see evidence come up of (after Christianity spread in the Levant) incidents of food-related illness linked to pork consumption rising--enough that when Abrahamic Fork 3.0 was written the "no pork" rule came back into effect along with rules generally prohibiting consumption of carnivorous animals when someone noticed that the "people of the book" NOT partaking of pig weren't coming down with those illnesses.  (There aren't prohibitions on ostrich consumption or fish in at least most Sunni interpretations of halal food laws--then again, there's also some evidence that the halachic food laws banning non-scaled, non-finned freshwater and saltwater fish came about due to incidents of algal blooms in the Mediterranean that aren't as much of a risk off the Arabian Gulf.)
 
2013-05-11 04:03:29 AM  
while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?

I've met a few people from the UK who keeps asking if certain stuff is Halal, unfortunately where I am (Thailand) most of the stuff that is not pork, even the Chicken in KFC is halal, since there are muslim community in the country and we export chickens everywhere.
I tried explaining to them that it's just like FDA, the muslim have their own people says that it's ok to eat, to no avail, well their loss, most manufacturers of food even things like bread even have halal mark on the packaging too, If you refuse halal stuff because you think muslim=evil or something you're going to have a bad time.

On the flipside of that I had arabic customers came in and asking to see halal mark on everything, even the bottled water too, so I told him the infidels water we have are tainted with pork and everything in my country is haram, even the tap water so don't try to drink that either.
 
2013-05-11 04:04:51 AM  

MooseUpNorth: farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?

Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


In this case, probably not just trichinosis, but (and this IS pretty specific to the Levant and Nile Valley as well as parts of Arabia) Rift Valley Fever and possibly also West Nile fever could have been zoonotic risks from pork butchering and consumption (the former in particular is a viral haemorrhagic fever transmitted by mosquito bites and blood and body fluids; the conditions that would be necessary to raise swine in the Levant would also make good breeding grounds for the mosquitos that transmit West Nile and Rift Valley fevers, and someone could be infected by butchering infected swine).  Trichinosis was probably also a major risk.

(Of note--almost every culture in that part of the world had some sort of food taboo involving pork--the Greeks were the weird ones out.  Phoenicians, Syrians, Israelis, Caananites, ancient (pre-Abrahamic-conversion, old-style Kemetic faith) Egyptians, Babylonians who still followed the Old Mesopotamian Religion...pretty much ALL of them had some form of "Seriously, don't have the bacon or pork chops" in their religious dietary laws.  This pretty strongly indicates that there was some kind of illness in that part of the world to which swine were susceptible and especially infamous in transmitting to humans--and that part of the world, even BEFORE the Abrahamic religions were a twinkle in Abram's eye, had probably the most religious regulations against consumption of pork that existed in the ancient world.

(This is especially interesting since one of the first known incidents of semidomestication of an animal as livestock (rather than as a hunting or companion animal) seems to have been semidomestication of boars in the Near East, specifically the Tigris Basin--apparently there were spread of Near Eastern swine flocks to Europe (where a third domestication had occurred of swine--the second was the Chinese domestication) where there was some inbreeding, but the Near Eastern domestic swine population seems to have died out around or shortly after the heyday of old Sumer.  Obviously the experiment with swiniculture in the Middle East ended badly enough that it scared EVERYONE off from considering them as food.)
 
2013-05-11 10:00:54 AM  

bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?


Pure ignorance and religious hatred, who somehow think that eating Halal food will make them Muslim or betray  Christianity or something like that.

Personally, I'm not of any Abrahamic faith, but I'd rather eat Kosher or Halal meat if it's available because I trust the quality standards involved in it over conventional meat.  Kosher hot dogs rock!
 
2013-05-11 11:17:45 AM  

bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?


I don't get that either.

Now, there's so much good food out there that you'll miss if you rule out all Halal food... let alone various cuisine that caters to a  Muslim audience. You're only harming yourself if you do that.

Of course, thinking back to my time in the Detroit area, there was also the case of the La Shish restaurant owners (at the time, not the current people) who were funneling profits to Hezbollah... so, I guess I indirectly supported acts of war against Israel. Ooooooops.

With how popular La Shish was at the time, I'm guessing the number of Jews who also did the same was a non zero sum.  This sort of thing is rare, and shouldn't dissuade people from trying other food, though... and the Chahines (who operated La Shish prior to being busted for supporting Hezbollah) are looong gone now.
 
2013-05-11 08:08:58 PM  

Silverstaff: bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?

Pure ignorance and religious hatred, who somehow think that eating Halal food will make them Muslim or betray  Christianity or something like that.


Sikhs are forbidden from eating any ritually-killed meat, Halal or Kosher.
 
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