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(BBC)   "Halal" school cafeteria burger found to be 50% pork, surprising many that it contained any actual meat at all   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 382
    More: Sick, Leicester City Council, Doncaster, halal meat  
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8558 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 1:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 04:59:32 PM  

loonatic112358: sounds like lazy meat packer just shoving whatever was handy down the grinder


That's what subbys mom said
 
2013-05-10 05:01:55 PM  
\

jackmalice: Paragon Quality Foods?

More like Renegade Quality Foods.


With a high probability of a punch to the face.
 
2013-05-10 05:02:54 PM  

ColdFusion: Tatsuma: It's not just hooves, it's having split hooves and chewing the cud. And it's a specific splitting as well, same goes for the way the cud is chewed.

Always confused me, though, that it specified rabbits as chewing the cud, when they don't. What's the deal with that?


They do something similar enough for translation between languages to account for the rest.  They pre-digest, and then re-eat and re-digest their food, which counts.
 
2013-05-10 05:07:34 PM  
It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?
 
2013-05-10 05:07:57 PM  

Raharu: I sure am glad that I'm not held back or riddled with guilt by bronze age fairy tale based dietary restrictions.

Its nice to be able to enjoy any food I wish, with no feelings of moral guilt.


I can understand why some things like pork would be verboten way back in the day before people had a complete understanding of cooking meats thoroughly and hygiene and all that jazz. Someone made some basic connection that eating or doing X increases the risk of dying from weird unknown cause Y. Nowadays it makes little sense, at least in a modern educated society.
 
2013-05-10 05:10:56 PM  

keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?


Well, it's a bit hard to slaughter something that's already dead.
 
2013-05-10 05:14:00 PM  

keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?


Religion is arbitrary. But completely off the top of my head: if it's alive when slaughtered then the meat is fresh. No chance of accidentally eating something that is "past".
 
2013-05-10 05:18:50 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Alphakronik: As an ex-Chef, rubbing pork on the meals of people who don't eat it yet complain and send back their dishes on a regular basis.


One patron ( a muslim) of the University Club in Portland, Oregon even sent back a note for me saying it was the tastiest burger he had ever had.

I love sending people to hell without their knowledge.

(BTW, in actual Halal theory, people who follow the rules aren't even allowed to eat food that has been prepared on the same surface as pork.  That shiat never happens).

I'm sure you think you make the world a better place too.


Nope, I'm an asshole.
 
2013-05-10 05:22:19 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-10 05:24:40 PM  
So their sky wizard will torment them eternally now?
 
2013-05-10 05:30:17 PM  

I Ate Shergar: keypusher: It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.

Why?

Well, it's a bit hard to slaughter something that's already dead.


Damnit!
 
2013-05-10 06:00:03 PM  
On the one hand, dick move.

On the other, I'm sure there's some sort of ritual or magic words that will make this all better.
 
2013-05-10 06:02:42 PM  
Allah will be PISSED!

(poor little deity. So easy to hurt his feelings, Awwww)
 
2013-05-10 06:33:15 PM  

nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.


In Italy, they sell horse right next to the beef. In fact, it is considered healthier than beef or pork, and Italians give it tot heir children if they think they might be anemic (high iron content apparently)

They also served it in the company cafeteria in Bologna a few times when I worked there. And you know what? It tasted like lean roast-beef. It was good. IMHO it is a slightly better meat than beef (which I love) - it seems healthier, less fatty, and still tasty. I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel. But then, I'm not a cowboy.

I still like Lamb better, but that's the whole New Zealand thing (wife is a kiwi)
 
2013-05-10 06:35:49 PM  

ISO15693: nekom: NostroZ: At least it's not Chinese rat-burgers (advertised as lamb).

It happens everywhere and that's why I'm very suspicious of where my food comes from.

It's a worldwide problem, and it makes you wonder what ELSE is in there.  Horse meat and pork may have religious or social meaning to some, but as far as a health concern meat is meat.  Neither horse nor pork will kill you.  But if you aren't getting exactly what's advertised, it raises SERIOUS questions about the food supply chain in the world.

In Italy, they sell horse right next to the beef. In fact, it is considered healthier than beef or pork, and Italians give it tot heir children if they think they might be anemic (high iron content apparently)

They also served it in the company cafeteria in Bologna a few times when I worked there. And you know what? It tasted like lean roast-beef. It was good. IMHO it is a slightly better meat than beef (which I love) - it seems healthier, less fatty, and still tasty. I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel. But then, I'm not a cowboy.

I still like Lamb better, but that's the whole New Zealand thing (wife is a kiwi)


your wife is a FRUIT?
 
2013-05-10 06:39:29 PM  
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
2013-05-10 07:42:31 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?

It's the kind of salt used in the kashering process - good at drawing out blood from proto-steaks.

// anything with any kind of blood in it ain't kosher


Also no iodine. That's kind of a big part too. Iodine can come from lots of sources - dairy, shellfish... while yogurt is a good source it complicates matters for people who don't want to mix their meat and milk. Companies who don't list where they got their iodine could be perceived as a problem.

It's one of those happy etymological things... it's for koshering and it is, itself, kosher. Good times.
 
2013-05-10 08:00:00 PM  
meridianmeats.ca

Double Jeopardy...
 
2013-05-10 08:05:02 PM  

Molavian: On the one hand, dick move.

On the other, I'm sure there's some sort of ritual or magic words that will make this all better.


Well, "I'm sorry" would be a good start, at least, that's what I learned in kindergarten.

That lesson seems to have escaped most Farkers here, though.
 
2013-05-10 08:32:09 PM  
farm4.static.flickr.com
No wonder that stuff is so tasty!
 
2013-05-10 09:31:41 PM  

iwatts: rebelyell2006: iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?

The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.

Yeah..... I get that part.

Personally, I'd reserve the "worst type of people" label for those who harm people. Such as those that knowingly serve e-coli tainted burgers. Burgers that cause no harm, other than violate some sort of Islamic or Judaic religious custom that actually predates both religions (ancient Egypt)? No. Not the "worst".


I would save the "worst" label for people who do things like kill people or lock up teenage girls in their rape dungeons for a decade. But that's just me.
 
2013-05-10 10:08:49 PM  

gshepnyc: The worst part of this story is that people still think need to eat special magically elevated food. Kosher and Halal eaters - go fark yourselves.



This is how you sound:

"I'm angry that people are different than me in any way. My arbitrary decisions are the ones that others must conform to."


This is what you said paraphrased to show how much of a numbskull you are:

Its the 21st century, and you still have people who refuse to eat dairy products because they're lactose intolerant? Fark you! You should learn to be more tolerant and join the rest of society.
 
2013-05-10 11:33:33 PM  

Tatsuma: give me doughnuts: No stunning/killing. Slit it's throat and let it bleed.

Actually kosher slaughter is a lot more humane than stunning. The blade is extremely sharp, and done in one swift motion. Basically all the arteries that feed blood to the brain are cut, and the animal loses consciousness almost instantly (1 to 3 seconds) and the rest is all nerves and automatic responses. The animal does not suffer that way

KiltedBastich: Do explain, this should be good.

This is about something a UK school and a European distributor, and you tried to make it about the evils of the Tea Party. That's why it's so farking stupid.


Not really, Tats.  And I say this as a Muslim, and one who keeps both halal and zabihah.  Kosher slaughter and halal slaughter have many similarities, to the point of being almost identical, but to suggest that the animal loses consciousness almost instantly, along with it's autonomic and nervous system responses is inaccurate.  Brain death will certainly take more than 3 seconds, sometimes even up to half a minute for larger animals.
Stunning, OTOH, if done properly, allows for autonomic nervous responses to keep the heart pumping, but dulls the mechanism of action of the afferent nociceptors.  Yes, it is essentially a blow to the head, but the animal's sensation of pain is dulled.
 
2013-05-10 11:55:36 PM  

farkeruk: Nattering Nabob: There is a scientific basis. Clean meats are at the bottom of the food chain and don't carry as many diseases. Beef, lamb, goat, etc can be cooked to a much lower temp since they don't and have a MUCH lower risk of making people sick

But none of these religions forbid eating chicken, despite chicken carrying salmonella that is far more likely to make you sick than pork.


There are a few books which argue it's more about preventing people from eating too many of their animals during times of food shortage.  That "don't eat the cows" is a meme* that evolved as part of Hinduism in India, for example, because societies that had that meme survived in times of shortages whereas societies that lacked the prohibition will slaughter all the cows for meat and then have no cows for milk or work after the immediate crisis passed.

*In the original sense of the word, not the modern lolcat usage of "meme"
 
2013-05-11 12:06:51 AM  
I Halal'd
 
2013-05-11 03:24:31 AM  

ISO15693: I don't get the aversion to it that many people seem to feel.


Horses are cute.
 
2013-05-11 03:53:58 AM  

RottNDude: Ah yes, religious dietary restrictions, a tenet of yore that has absolutely no basis in the real modern developed world where things like Rift valley fever and trichinosis and other diseases contractable through pork really don't exist all that much and the conditions are suitable for raising swine...


FTFY. :3

FWIW: It's actually strongly suspected by folks studying Abrahamic religions that the general prohibitions against pork in Judaism and Islam may well have been either a preventive measure against illnesses associated with pork consumption and/or because the Levant and Arabia are generally pretty crappy places to try to raise heat-intolerant livestock who can't sweat.

Among other things, there is not only the trichinosis risk but also the risk of diseases (Rift Valley Fever being the big one) that generally don't exist in other hog-raising areas, and yes, it IS possible to contract Rift Valley Fever from slaughtering hogs--and RVF has been in the area for a good long time, longer than measles has been around and pigs would be particularly susceptible due to needing to have a regular water source more readily than cattle or sheep.

About the closest areas to the Levant that raised swine were in Greece (which does not have a history of zoonotic illnesses transmitted by swine) and an early semidomestication event in the Tigris Basin around 11,000-13,000 BCE (which may well have served long enough by the time Judaism forked from the Old Mesopotamian Religion to show some zoonotic risks from raising pork--also, swine culture is ill suited for semi-nomadic peoples in arid and semiarid environments)--quite probably the only reason Christianity didn't adopt an equivalent to halal or kosher food regs is that (by the time it was canonised) it was not only heavily Hellenicised but Romanised (and in fact, some of the very oldest branches of Christianity--for example, the Dewahedo Orthodox churches of Ethiopia and Eritrea (which specifically prohibit pork consumption), the Coptic Church of Egypt (also generally disapproving of pork--this may be from pre-Abrahamic tradition), and particularly the Maronite Church of Lebanon and the West Bank--DO actually still have some food restrictions, with the Maronite Church in particular still keeping some kosher food laws and some early Christian writings generally condemning the consumption of food that has not been thoroughly cooked--which would also protect against foodborne illness).

The fact that pretty much every culture surrounding the Levant (aside from the Greeks) also had some very specific taboos against raising or consuming pork (Egyptians, Mesopotamians following the Old Religion in Babylon, Syrians, and Phonecians ALSO had explicit "no pork" rules in their cultures) points rather strongly and clearly to a widely recognised public health risk regarding pork in the ancient Levant and Nile Valley to the point that NOBODY wanted to touch it...and I'd not be shocked to see evidence come up of (after Christianity spread in the Levant) incidents of food-related illness linked to pork consumption rising--enough that when Abrahamic Fork 3.0 was written the "no pork" rule came back into effect along with rules generally prohibiting consumption of carnivorous animals when someone noticed that the "people of the book" NOT partaking of pig weren't coming down with those illnesses.  (There aren't prohibitions on ostrich consumption or fish in at least most Sunni interpretations of halal food laws--then again, there's also some evidence that the halachic food laws banning non-scaled, non-finned freshwater and saltwater fish came about due to incidents of algal blooms in the Mediterranean that aren't as much of a risk off the Arabian Gulf.)
 
2013-05-11 04:03:29 AM  
while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?

I've met a few people from the UK who keeps asking if certain stuff is Halal, unfortunately where I am (Thailand) most of the stuff that is not pork, even the Chicken in KFC is halal, since there are muslim community in the country and we export chickens everywhere.
I tried explaining to them that it's just like FDA, the muslim have their own people says that it's ok to eat, to no avail, well their loss, most manufacturers of food even things like bread even have halal mark on the packaging too, If you refuse halal stuff because you think muslim=evil or something you're going to have a bad time.

On the flipside of that I had arabic customers came in and asking to see halal mark on everything, even the bottled water too, so I told him the infidels water we have are tainted with pork and everything in my country is haram, even the tap water so don't try to drink that either.
 
2013-05-11 04:04:51 AM  

MooseUpNorth: farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?

Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


In this case, probably not just trichinosis, but (and this IS pretty specific to the Levant and Nile Valley as well as parts of Arabia) Rift Valley Fever and possibly also West Nile fever could have been zoonotic risks from pork butchering and consumption (the former in particular is a viral haemorrhagic fever transmitted by mosquito bites and blood and body fluids; the conditions that would be necessary to raise swine in the Levant would also make good breeding grounds for the mosquitos that transmit West Nile and Rift Valley fevers, and someone could be infected by butchering infected swine).  Trichinosis was probably also a major risk.

(Of note--almost every culture in that part of the world had some sort of food taboo involving pork--the Greeks were the weird ones out.  Phoenicians, Syrians, Israelis, Caananites, ancient (pre-Abrahamic-conversion, old-style Kemetic faith) Egyptians, Babylonians who still followed the Old Mesopotamian Religion...pretty much ALL of them had some form of "Seriously, don't have the bacon or pork chops" in their religious dietary laws.  This pretty strongly indicates that there was some kind of illness in that part of the world to which swine were susceptible and especially infamous in transmitting to humans--and that part of the world, even BEFORE the Abrahamic religions were a twinkle in Abram's eye, had probably the most religious regulations against consumption of pork that existed in the ancient world.

(This is especially interesting since one of the first known incidents of semidomestication of an animal as livestock (rather than as a hunting or companion animal) seems to have been semidomestication of boars in the Near East, specifically the Tigris Basin--apparently there were spread of Near Eastern swine flocks to Europe (where a third domestication had occurred of swine--the second was the Chinese domestication) where there was some inbreeding, but the Near Eastern domestic swine population seems to have died out around or shortly after the heyday of old Sumer.  Obviously the experiment with swiniculture in the Middle East ended badly enough that it scared EVERYONE off from considering them as food.)
 
2013-05-11 10:00:54 AM  

bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?


Pure ignorance and religious hatred, who somehow think that eating Halal food will make them Muslim or betray  Christianity or something like that.

Personally, I'm not of any Abrahamic faith, but I'd rather eat Kosher or Halal meat if it's available because I trust the quality standards involved in it over conventional meat.  Kosher hot dogs rock!
 
2013-05-11 11:17:45 AM  

bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?


I don't get that either.

Now, there's so much good food out there that you'll miss if you rule out all Halal food... let alone various cuisine that caters to a  Muslim audience. You're only harming yourself if you do that.

Of course, thinking back to my time in the Detroit area, there was also the case of the La Shish restaurant owners (at the time, not the current people) who were funneling profits to Hezbollah... so, I guess I indirectly supported acts of war against Israel. Ooooooops.

With how popular La Shish was at the time, I'm guessing the number of Jews who also did the same was a non zero sum.  This sort of thing is rare, and shouldn't dissuade people from trying other food, though... and the Chahines (who operated La Shish prior to being busted for supporting Hezbollah) are looong gone now.
 
2013-05-11 08:08:58 PM  

Silverstaff: bobbagum: while we are discussing Hala foods what's the deal with people refusing halal foods though?

Pure ignorance and religious hatred, who somehow think that eating Halal food will make them Muslim or betray  Christianity or something like that.


Sikhs are forbidden from eating any ritually-killed meat, Halal or Kosher.
 
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