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(BBC)   "Halal" school cafeteria burger found to be 50% pork, surprising many that it contained any actual meat at all   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 382
    More: Sick, Leicester City Council, Doncaster, halal meat  
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8564 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 1:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 01:43:22 PM  

Loucifer: Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!


You mean they won't get 72 pre-pubescent girls to rape?!
 
2013-05-10 01:43:27 PM  
So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?
 
2013-05-10 01:43:42 PM  

farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?


Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.
 
2013-05-10 01:44:24 PM  

cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.


So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:25 PM  

Tatsuma: rev. dave: but unless it is related to religious ceremony,

For both Muslim and Jews, eating a meal is a religious ceremony


I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?

There is ceremony (or really, observance - "grace") at every meal, yeah, but it's kind of a stretch to call handwashing and birkat hamazon (grace before/after meals) a ceremony. Friday/Saturday/holiday meals are a different beast (because of the tradition to specifically have 3 meals, the pomp of kiddush, etc).

// do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:40 PM  

Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.


Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?
 
2013-05-10 01:44:52 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


Kosher salt is actually just the dandruff swept up off of Boca Raton bingo hall floors.
 
2013-05-10 01:45:51 PM  

farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


Trichonosis'd be my guess.  People got seriously ill from eating undercooked pig so they took it as a sign from God that they shouldn't.

/can anyone confirm/deny?
 
2013-05-10 01:46:04 PM  

iwatts: Tatsuma: People who do these kinds of things (usually for profits) are the worst type of people.

Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?


The lambburgers were not actually lambburgers. Which is fraud if it was intentional.
 
2013-05-10 01:46:39 PM  
Sick tag? Really? For some yummy pork getting into their lamb burgers? Did someone take a bite and yell, "Uck! This tastes like pork! I hate pork!"? No! They couldn't tell the difference and I bet they loved those burgers. I don't particularly care for the taste of lamb (a shall we say "down to earth" concern, no worries about only getting 71 virgins in magic happy place), but if it was in a hamburger and I couldn't tell the difference then no harm, no foul. Put lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever. If there is no health risk and it tastes good then there is no problem. Just enjoy your burger.

Amusing tag should have turned left at Albuquerque for this one.
 
2013-05-10 01:47:25 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


It's the kind of salt used in the kashering process - good at drawing out blood from proto-steaks.

// anything with any kind of blood in it ain't kosher
 
2013-05-10 01:47:37 PM  

Tatsuma: Therefore, fark them for wanting to abide by it while not forcing you to abide by them?


Laws on cruelty to animals should apply regardless of religion. Kosher and halal slaughtering practices would both result in prison time for anyone not dusted in magic woo-woo powder.
 
2013-05-10 01:47:58 PM  

rev. dave: Muslims are generally not eating pork AFAIK - seems simple enough unless they get the extended version like Jews.


Muslims also don't consume alcohol.   While more moderate Muslims just take that to mean not having wine, beer or liquor, there are plenty of Muslims who extend that to cooking with anything that has any alcohol in it at all in even trace amounts.  No vanilla extract.  No cooking wines.  No alcoholic beverages used for flavorings (Bourbon Chicken and beer-battered onion rings are right out).
 
2013-05-10 01:49:04 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: Is Horse meat Hala?

I'll bet if the lamb burgers contained horse meat instead of pork we would not hear much outrage from the muslims.   But we wouldn't be able to hear them over the outrage of the non-muslims.


A quick google search shows that is not Halal.

rev. dave: Those poor children are now condemned to Hell through no fault of their own.  Since they never ate pork, how would they be able to tell it was pork?

AFAIK, if someone gives you something saying its Halal, it becomes Halal to you, and if it is not, fault goes to whoever gave it to you. Whoever ate them has no responsibility. Again, AFAIK, only Hindu religion has a different perspective on this. You are doomed even if you eat beef unknowingly. You have not go through a process of repent.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:17 PM  

traylor: No no no, let me explain. These "Halal" burgers must have come from Hungary, where the word "halal" means "death". Pork or no pork, they are just what their name implies, death burgers. Frankly, those kids are lucky if they are not dead yet.


Monty Python (probably a mangling of scenes, but meh. Haven't seen it in years):  "Bring out your dead"  "I'm not dead yet"
 
2013-05-10 01:49:21 PM  
He won't eat it he hates everything. Hey Achmed!! He Likes It
 
2013-05-10 01:49:24 PM  

Silverstaff: SphericalTime: FTA: <i>Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."</i>

No, I think civil procedure would be just fine in this instance.  Violating the tenets of a religion really doesn't strike me as ever being a criminal matter.

Fraud?  Misrepresenting one product for another?  Depending on the jurisdiction you might be able to call that criminal.  Not for violating a religious belief, but for willfully mislabeling a product and advertising something as having traits (such as being halal) that it doesn't have.


+1.  Definitely prosecute them for fraud.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:25 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


 I thought he spit on it. The higher the loogie arc, the greater the blessing God bestows on his creation.

/surely, Sherman my dear boy, you've heard...of...the arc of the covenant,,,
/okay....let's see...bags packed...window seat...kosher meal...okay...off to hell...
 
2013-05-10 01:49:40 PM  

MaxxLarge: If it was hatred, they'd just stick in a tiny, tiny amount. Something barely detectable that they'd be able to say was an error if they got caught. But until then, they'd be stickin' it to the Moose Limbs without anyone knowing.

Fully half being pork? That's gotta be either ignorance, or a farkup.


You assume someone assholeish enough to deliberately do something like this would think that far ahead.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:47 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


As God created the world, he could have just explained it "hey guys, there's a thing in pork that might kill you. Make sure you cook it right the way through, OK?"

There's nothing in the bible about fugu, despite the fact that god stuck it in the ocean.
 
2013-05-10 01:49:54 PM  
I don't have restrictions except the Catholic thing during Lent, and that tends to be more of a guideline in my house because we're not all that devout. I didn't flagellate myself if I forget (I'm using the word in the religious sense, you wankers).

I respect other traditions, though. in reality, anyway, and not necessarily on the internet. I wouldn't serve meat to a vegetarian, nor pork to a Jew or Muslim. just a respect thing.

over the internet? all y'all gone to hell bra.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:14 PM  

Tatsuma: We might understand many reasons for the various commandments that G-d gave us, but ultimately we do them because we were commanded to, not because it makes sense to our rational minds. Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.


That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

It's the dishonest ones who try to claim that there is any evidence.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:26 PM  
Someone is losing a head over this.
 
2013-05-10 01:50:58 PM  
Approves.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Loucifer: Even if you are tricked into eating pork, you're still going to hell. Ha Ha!

You mean they won't get 72 pre-pubescent girls to rape?!


Considering the alternative is "have" I'd say they probably could get 72 of them to commit the act of rape on an equal number of males just to protect themselves from the alternative.  Or did you really intend to say "You mean they won't receive"
 
2013-05-10 01:51:16 PM  
It would solve most of the world's problems if religious people would just stop eating.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:33 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So for kosher salt, does the rabbi like kill the salt in a spiritual way?


Kosher salt is called that way because it's a salt that is used for kashering meat, not because it is kosher in itself. Salt alone is kosher by default.

Dr Dreidel: I'd actually be interested to see if that holds up as a legal argument. After all, doesn't the Tanya say that EVERYTHING can be elevated to the level of "religious ceremony"?


More or less, yes. Not just the Tanya, either.

For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.

Dr Dreidel: // do Muslims have b'dieved (accidental transgression) clauses?


I believe in certain situations they do, but not all.
 
2013-05-10 01:51:47 PM  
farm1.static.flickr.com

Let's try that again.

Approves.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:01 PM  

MooseUpNorth: farkeruk: But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens?

Short answer:  http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/    It's pretty obvious that the religious prohibitions came from someone or someones (more likely) who either didn't understand the need to cook meats all the way through and weren't arsed enough to do better than come up with a new superstition.


Lots of other reasons for people to have banned eating pig.
- Pigs require a lot of water to raise, and for people living in the middle east and North Africa, clean freshwater was often hard to come by.
- As you mentioned trichinellosis.  Even if you don't eat the meat, the cysts from the worms will get into the water supply via pig feces, which leads to worms burrowing into your brain.
- Its real easy for pig disease to spread from pig to human, and from birds to pigs.  The flu of 1918 was originally a bird flu.  They've traced its outbreak back to a military camp in France where pigs and chickens were kept close together.  They believe the chickens got sick, the disease jumped from the chickens to the pigs, and from the pigs to soldiers heading home after fighting spreading the flu around the world.  My hunch is people who kept pigs back then tended to get sick a lot more often than non-pig keepers.  So while people might not have known about viruses, they could clearly see god liked to punish the pig keepers.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:29 PM  

farkeruk: cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.

So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?


It's all arbitrary mostly.  But even secular norms are arbitrary.  So really who cares?
 
2013-05-10 01:52:32 PM  

Munchkin City Coroner: ... lambs in there, sloths, carp, anchovies, orangutans, breakfast cereals, fruit bats, whatever....


You MONSTER!!!!
 
2013-05-10 01:52:36 PM  

orbister: Tatsuma: We might understand many reasons for the various commandments that G-d gave us, but ultimately we do them because we were commanded to, not because it makes sense to our rational minds. Rational minds are limited and you can be led down the wrong path by following it, while by following G-d you will not go wrong.

That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

It's the dishonest ones who try to claim that there is any evidence.


You forgot religious extremists and jihadists.
 
2013-05-10 01:52:38 PM  

farkeruk: cwolf20: Does it behoove you to consider that it's hooved animals and a chicken isn't hooved.

So what? What's wrong with hooved, split hooved or nor hooved in terms of eating or not eating? What's the reason behind one or another?


I don't know. I'm going to eat barbeque pork with pork rinds tonight.  I just wanted to say Behoove
 
2013-05-10 01:53:30 PM  

iwatts: Because the people who ate the burgers got sick? Were endangered in any way?


It's illegal for you to tell me you're selling me coke when you're really selling me pepsi. How much more so this.
 
2013-05-10 01:53:36 PM  
Pork is a nice, sweet meat...
i500.listal.com
 
2013-05-10 01:53:45 PM  

farkeruk: Suleman Nagdi, from the Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "For people, this is touching at the very tenet of their faith, the very heart of their faith.  There needs to be a criminal procedure against the company," he said. "At least it would bring some confidence into the community."

What I'd love to ask this guy is why a God cares about us eating pork? I can grasp the concept of a god that exists that judges our moral behaviour. You murder someone or fark your neighbour's wife, yeah, I can see how a god might see that as wrong, in a way that helping someone look for a lost dog isn't.

But what's wrong with pigs, as opposed to sheep or chickens? It's all a bit farking arbitrary for a superbeing, isn't it?


Pigs will eat all sorts of crap and can carry a ton of diseases and parasites. Same basic reason bats, mice, shellfish, etc are banned in holy texts. There were valid medical/scientific reasons for avoiding them at the time so they worked them into the religion for the sake of not drying. Time passed, we understood diseases better, quality control was imposed, and tada, no need for ancient dietary restrictions. Just take the common wisdom and morality of the era, make it absolute, and stick one or more personas behind it and you've got every religion. If you don't think people will heed the advice, you throw in a list of punishments.
 
2013-05-10 01:54:48 PM  

orbister: That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.


Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence? If you follow the laws of kashrut/halal, you don't eat pork. You can hear as many arguments extolling the virtues of bacon or prosciutto as can be, but a preference is a preference.

If you argue the universe/Earth is 6,000 years old, even if you don't care if they never mention that in the godless public school system (which is fine, you drag the kid to Mass every week) you have to willfully ignore lots and lots of science. Facts are facts.
 
2013-05-10 01:55:29 PM  
 
2013-05-10 01:55:45 PM  
Did any one die and go to Hell?
 
2013-05-10 01:56:05 PM  
mypetjawa.mu.nu
 
2013-05-10 01:56:15 PM  
LOL @ retards who won't eat certain types of foods due to retarded religious beliefs.
 
2013-05-10 01:56:21 PM  

DeathCipris: You forgot religious extremists and jihadists.


I'm sure Tats'll bring them up in due course.
 
2013-05-10 01:57:16 PM  

ShawnDoc: Lots of other reasons for people to have banned eating pig.
- Pigs require a lot of water to raise, and for people living in the middle east and North Africa, clean freshwater was often hard to come by.
- As you mentioned trichinellosis.  Even if you don't eat the meat, the cysts from the worms will get into the water supply via pig feces, which leads to worms burrowing into your brain.
- Its real easy for pig disease to spread from pig to human, and from birds to pigs.  The flu of 1918 was originally a bird flu.  They've traced its outbreak back to a military camp in France where pigs and chickens were kept close together.  They believe the chickens got sick, the disease jumped from the chickens to the pigs, and from the pigs to soldiers heading home after fighting spreading the flu around the world.  My hunch is people who kept pigs back then tended to get sick a lot more often than non-pig keepers.  So while people might not have known about viruses, they could clearly see god liked to punish the pig keepers.


So in which case, it might as well all be dumped, as these things hardly apply to 21st century society. We've solved the problems that God cared about through technology, therefore, God should have turned up and said "about the bacon? go right ahead now".
 
2013-05-10 01:57:35 PM  

Tatsuma: For Judaism I could seriously argue the case successfully. If you read all the halachot that go into the meal, from washing of the hands to how the meal has to be prepared to proper eating to what can be said/done during the meal and finally birkat hamazon, there are literally hundreds of pages covering this in terms of applicable halachot.


The Mishnah Berurah starts by describing how to start your day - wake up, do the dailies, prayers, yadda yadda - down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you you put on and tie first. I don't know that there's a court in the land that would consider "shoe-wearing" a religious ceremony.

// also, the Ramah probably disagrees anyway
// farking Poles
 
2013-05-10 01:57:53 PM  
Sums up the mentality of the 'hamburger' producers neatly:
 
2013-05-10 01:58:25 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // farking Poles

Germans

How did I make that mistake?
 
2013-05-10 01:58:25 PM  
Looks like all those muslims are going straight to hell.  They may as well kill themselves now.
 
2013-05-10 01:58:39 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence?


I was referring to the chap who said "sometimes you just gotta follow the rules", not to dietary choice in particular. Generally I don't care what people eat, but I'm buggered if I can see why local authority schools should pander to a bunch of iron age superstitions, particularly when it involves significant cruelty to animals.
 
2013-05-10 01:58:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: orbister: That's the same argument used by honest creationists. Yes, they say, all the evidence looks as if the earth is billions of years old and evolution took place, but the book says it isn't and it didn't, so that's that.

Because a dietary choice is exactly like ignoring factual evidence? If you follow the laws of kashrut/halal, you don't eat pork. You can hear as many arguments extolling the virtues of bacon or prosciutto as can be, but a preference is a preference.

If you argue the universe/Earth is 6,000 years old, even if you don't care if they never mention that in the godless public school system (which is fine, you drag the kid to Mass every week) you have to willfully ignore lots and lots of science. Facts are facts.


And all scientists still say they can't figure out exactly how old it is.  Carbon dating is only as exact as how long it's been since someone came up with the idea to use it.  They're still improving on it.  Does that mean I think it's 6,000 years old? Nah.  We just can't figure out the exact age.  Quit spackling earth cream into the earth maybe, and eventually the true age will show up.
 
2013-05-10 01:59:12 PM  

Dr Dreidel: down to which arm goes in your shirt first and which you shoe you put on and tie first.


Sigh. At least I don't write for a living...
 
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