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(Slate)   Slate: Making kids play team sports in PE is neither healthy nor educational, uses as an example: dodgeball, probably the most sociopathic "team sport" of them all   (slate.com) divider line 75
    More: Stupid, Kid 'n Play, J.V. Junior High School, physical education, nature documentary, nature programme, sick comedy, Loughborough University, educations  
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4955 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 12:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 11:04:35 AM
6 votes:
when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.
2013-05-10 01:02:35 PM
4 votes:
Screw sport.
Teach them Judo in elementary school and give classes in yoga, too.
Let them learn Aikido in Middle school and Kungfu in highschool. Also teach logic.
Of course, the GOP doesn't want people who can disarm an asshole with a box cutter and can see through a bullshait reason to tax people to vote, so that will never happen.
2013-05-10 11:57:46 AM
4 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: As I recall when I was in school, it was referred to as "murder ball"


Murder Ball was one variety of Dodge Ball, which (the way we played it) involved everybody trying to nail a person who was tagged "it." It was not usually officially sanctioned by the gym teachers, although I don't recall them ever stopping us from playing it during free time. There was also Prison Dodgeball (where team members were "taken prisoner" after being hit and could be freed to rejoin your team in what basically amounted to hostage exchanges); Pin Dodgeball (basic dodgeball with the addition of bowling that had to be protected by your team; if the pins were all knocked down, you lost, so the basic strategy was to stand your weakest players in front of the pins as human shields and do what you could to protect them from being nailed); Quad Dodge (a four-way dodgeball game where you were under threat from all sides); and many others. I loved them all.
2013-05-10 12:42:26 PM
3 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: ManateeGag: when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.

We played with tennis balls too. Nowadays I think they'd call in grief counselors to share our feelings about some of the bruising we took.

I brought this up in a conversation with a group of my old high school classmates last year. The catalyst was this article. Now, most of my classmates' kids are getting into the late teen age range but there are still a few who started late. My question was when did we become such shiatty parents where we were so overly concerned about our kids and why?


I'm almost 40. When I was a kid in the summertime, I would basically disappear, every day, between 8 AM and 10 PM, going pretty much anywhere I wanted to and I'd come home dirty, injured, and exhausted. Every day.

Now, my nieces and nephews are never, ever more than 10 feet away from their parents and are never outside. Whenever one of them somehow wanders away from their invisible umbilical cord, their parents are practically on the phone to the police.
I don't understand what happened either.
2013-05-10 11:52:24 AM
3 votes:
So, her whole argument is "I sucked at sports, so sports suck"?

I'm only moderately athletic, rowed crew in college but wasn't brilliant at it, etc. and know that my natural talents lie more in intellectual activities and so that's probably why I worked on them more, but where do you get the ego to think intellectual gifts are intrinsically better than physical?

The sheer chutzpah of acting like kids who are born 'smarter' are somehow better than kids who are born more 'athletic' is just insane, as if the two are somehow opposite ends of a spectrum.  They're completely distinct characteristics.  Kids should be praised for either or both, teaching them to love what they can do well so that they'll work to improve those things and hopefully achieve good or great things.  Telling athletic kids that they suck because they aren't smart enough is no better than telling smart kids they suck because they're not athletic enough.
2013-05-10 11:44:10 AM
3 votes:

ManateeGag: when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.


We played with tennis balls too. Nowadays I think they'd call in grief counselors to share our feelings about some of the bruising we took.

I brought this up in a conversation with a group of my old high school classmates last year. The catalyst was this article. Now, most of my classmates' kids are getting into the late teen age range but there are still a few who started late. My question was when did we become such shiatty parents where we were so overly concerned about our kids and why? When we were growing up, many of our Fathers were WWII and/or Korea vets. We were all but expected to get into fights, (get caught fighting in school you'd get hauled to the gym, put on gloves and headgear and duke it out until tired then get a swat or two and sent to class), get cuts and scrapes, break a bone or two and into mischief. You might get your ass kicked, some stitches, wince at Bactine's sting or wear a cast for a couple of months but it was all part of growing up. A standard reply when you thought you were wronged was 'life's not fair'.

I'm stunned at how parents (when they have parents but that's a whole 'nuther conversation) act towards their kids today. Everyone's a winner, there are no losers, call the cops when a couple of 13 year olds squab on the ball field after school...These parents are in their late 30s to late 40s...just about my age and down. What made them such pussies?
2013-05-10 11:17:09 AM
3 votes:
The author is a Portland hipster biatch.

Move along, nothing to see here.
2013-05-10 05:38:58 PM
2 votes:
I'm sure this horse has been beat to death already, but all phys ed and sports teams in public k-12 schools are a complete waste of student time and parent tax dollars. Trash the sports teams completely to save the money, and change phys ed to a nutrition ed and daily workout class. Make everyone be on the elliptical for 45 mins every day. that would actually get people in shape and be way better than the farce that is a new sport every week, never to be picked up again by anyone until next years PE class. Elliptical is also way better for the body than that farking retard weekly mile run.
2013-05-10 02:55:15 PM
2 votes:
I graduated high school in 1999. As a California school, mine went crazy a bit earlier than the average.
Iron-clad rule: Any two students involved in a fight are to be punished equally.
So... when a kid walked up and punched me in the face because someone told him I had hit on his girlfriend (Completely untrue, I was a library nerd), I reported it, I got suspended! Why? "You must have done something to provoke him."

And of course, when the bullies learned that, it got far worse. If you were a 'good student' you couldn't defend yourself, because you'd get in far more trouble (proportionately) than the bully who hit you.
2013-05-10 02:20:11 PM
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: ManateeGag: when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.

We played with tennis balls too. Nowadays I think they'd call in grief counselors to share our feelings about some of the bruising we took.

I brought this up in a conversation with a group of my old high school classmates last year. The catalyst was this article. Now, most of my classmates' kids are getting into the late teen age range but there are still a few who started late. My question was when did we become such shiatty parents where we were so overly concerned about our kids and why? When we were growing up, many of our Fathers were WWII and/or Korea vets. We were all but expected to get into fights, (get caught fighting in school you'd get hauled to the gym, put on gloves and headgear and duke it out until tired then get a swat or two and sent to class), get cuts and scrapes, break a bone or two and into mischief. You might get your ass kicked, some stitches, wince at Bactine's sting or wear a cast for a couple of months but it was all part of growing up. A standard reply when you thought you were wronged was 'life's not fair'.

I'm stunned at how parents (when they have parents but that's a whole 'nuther conversation) act towards their kids today. Everyone's a winner, there are no losers, call the cops when a couple of 13 year olds squab on the ball field after school...These parents are in their late 30s to late 40s...just about my age and down. What made them such pussies?


I can tell you what happened, Columbine. I was in middle school when that occurred, and the changes that took place practically overnight were huge. Prior to Columbine, I never saw a cop working security in a school, and when kids got into a fight, the worst punishment they would receive was detention. Post Columbine, there was always a cop in school, any fights would result in all participants being led out of the building in handcuffs. It just all rolled downhill from there.
2013-05-10 02:14:38 PM
2 votes:
cdn103.iofferphoto.com
2013-05-10 01:47:38 PM
2 votes:
Dodgeball was validation for bullies. I see some folks think it was all fun and that those who got pounded "deserved it". And people wonder why kids want to kill their classmates. I know I did, and I am still not exactly sure how I am not in prison for life.

Now as an adult, I would LOVE to play it. Mainly because I am rather strong and have a massive tolerance for pain. Plus, so many other factors at play, that even if you suck and become "the loser" that everyone wails on, you probably are adult enough not to care and take it in stride. Or you might get to pork your vastly hotter wife than the winners. Or have a nicer car. Or something. In school, you basically have the bullied and the bullies (at least from the perspective of one of the bullied). Not much leverage apart from that: no one cares if you are rich or smart, just if you are cool or a reject. The only time dodgeball worked out is if one of the "cool" kids became one of the losers in dodgeball. Which basically never happened.
2013-05-10 01:43:34 PM
2 votes:
I posted several times in this thread and I don't think any of my posts were tagged as funny or smart. My self-esteem is really starting to trend down. I called my mom and she said you guys have to give me some kind of trophy for participating, or, there will be lawyers.
2013-05-10 01:21:29 PM
2 votes:
I'm with her.  And I excelled at team sports.Team sports is fine though until say 6th grade at which point extra curricular sports are available in school.  I was a great soccer and volleyball player.  I would never be good at softball or basketball.  Why force basketball onto a 12 year old who will never be good at it and is quickly being outpaced by actual players.  The differentiation is less acute at earlier ages, and a good time to offer up multiple sports to kids so they can find one they like.

But truthfully, if the goal pf phys ed is to make kids more physically fit, then browbeating them into a sport for which they have no skill is likely counter productive.  You're bad at it so you hate gym, so you hate exercise, so you never develop any comfortable exercise regimen.  This isn't math or English or even science which are all part of being a well rounded citizen (and an employable one) it's freakin sports.  Your ability to send in a corner kick will never come up in a job interview.  Your weight and your general health though will definitely be noticed.
2013-05-10 01:04:36 PM
2 votes:

ManateeGag: when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.


exactly.  I was a bullied , un popular kid in 8th grade, but I farking LOVED dodgeball.  Of course I was the first one everyone threw at but I was extremely nimble and flexible for a fat kid, so they'd throw and throw, missing me time and again while I got to laugh at them and occassionaly catch the ball and peg one of them square in the head.  Yes it was all sick and sad, but very cathartic too
2013-05-10 01:01:09 PM
2 votes:

Hoban Washburne: You know, life is a little hard and a little scary at times.  If at 15 you can't handle the idea of someone throwing a soft rubber ball at you then you've got some toughening up to do.

I will say this though.  Athletes (as in currently enrolled in a sport) should not take gym.  There's a huge competitive gap between them and the general non-athlete student populace.  It hampers the athletes' experience and is unfair to the non-athletes.


Came here to say THIS. Take the athletes out of the equation and gym is fun for everyone remaining, or at least tolerable. And why should athletes out for a sport be in gym class? What a waste of time for them. It's a win/win situation for everyone if you exempt athletes, and it encourages kids to go out for a sport so they can get out of stupid gym class.
2013-05-10 12:05:33 PM
2 votes:
You know, life is a little hard and a little scary at times.  If at 15 you can't handle the idea of someone throwing a soft rubber ball at you then you've got some toughening up to do.

I will say this though.  Athletes (as in currently enrolled in a sport) should not take gym.  There's a huge competitive gap between them and the general non-athlete student populace.  It hampers the athletes' experience and is unfair to the non-athletes.
2013-05-10 11:23:12 AM
2 votes:
I sucked at team sports, but I loved dodgeball.

Kickball can go fark itself.
2013-05-10 11:06:43 AM
2 votes:

AngryPanda: This author is like my friend who says that even watching sports and enjoying it is unhealthy. Whatever, dude.


I no longer enjoy football. Whenever I see 250 lbs. men run into in each other head first all I can think about are the brain injuries that are going to cripple them down the road.

I only still watch it due to my gambling addiction.
2013-05-10 10:58:14 AM
2 votes:
This author is like my friend who says that even watching sports and enjoying it is unhealthy. Whatever, dude.
2013-05-10 06:00:28 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: Dr. Goldshnoz: Make everyone be on the elliptical for 45 mins every day.

Conjugate the verb "to be"

I be
you be
he be
she be
we be
they be


Congratulations: you just failed at English. Sometimes the infinitive form of the verb is required. This is one of those times.
2013-05-10 05:54:09 PM
1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: I'm sure this horse has been beat to death already, but all phys ed and sports teams in public k-12 schools are a complete waste of student time and parent tax dollars. Trash the sports teams completely to save the money, and change phys ed to a nutrition ed and daily workout class. Make everyone be on the elliptical for 45 mins every day. that would actually get people in shape and be way better than the farce that is a new sport every week, never to be picked up again by anyone until next years PE class. Elliptical is also way better for the body than that farking retard weekly mile run.


Oh please 20 years ago kids in HS were having notes written to excuse them from gym class all the time. You think they are gonna be ok with actually having to break a sweat on an elliptical machine ?

The kids that didn't want to do gym then are the same kind of kids who won't do it now.

The thing about gym that sucks is by the time everyone changes and is ready there was only like 30 minutes or less for a class. It is basically an exercise of changing your clothes.
2013-05-10 04:48:35 PM
1 votes:

Ant: Dancin_In_Anson: It is my mission to make sure that The Twins understand how the real world operates.

That's how the real world operates now.

I was just telling my son the other day about every job I've had in my life, starting with delivering flyers for a pizza place in Boise Idaho when I was a little kid. Suddenly I realized that when I was doing that job, I was about the same age as my son is now (8 years old). I cannot even imagine sending my 8 year old son out to deliver flyers door-to-door. Even if I could imagine it, the other parents in the neighborhood would probably report me to CPS.


This is true. While I lament how much we protect kids these days, we'd be pariahs if we didn't
Ant
2013-05-10 04:45:22 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: It is my mission to make sure that The Twins understand how the real world operates.


That's how the real world operates now.

I was just telling my son the other day about every job I've had in my life, starting with delivering flyers for a pizza place in Boise Idaho when I was a little kid. Suddenly I realized that when I was doing that job, I was about the same age as my son is now (8 years old). I cannot even imagine sending my 8 year old son out to deliver flyers door-to-door. Even if I could imagine it, the other parents in the neighborhood would probably report me to CPS.
2013-05-10 04:40:13 PM
1 votes:

NutWrench: I_Am_Weasel: As I recall when I was in school, it was referred to as "murder ball"

They called it, "smear the queer (with the ball)" when I was a kid. I have no idea why: none of us knew what a queer was.


Our neighborhood had a team hide-and-seek game where kids of all ages played, it was called "Jews and Germans" (yea, I know...read below).

The "Jews" had 2 minutes to hide virtually anywhere (accept inside) and the "Germans" had to go out and find them and then drag them back to the base...and if you broke free from the dragging, you got another 2 minutes to hide again.

I was 7 and had zero clue about the name, I just thought it was fun.  Then one day a few years later I'm in History class, learning about WWII and all of a sudden it hit me..."OMG I can't believe it was called that".

At my 20-year high school reunion I went up to a girl that lived down the street from me at that neighborhood and asked her if she remembered playing that game...her reaction was exactly the same..."OMG I can't believe that game was called that".

/Also played smear the queer...had no idea was a queer was either
//The innocence of youth
2013-05-10 04:35:07 PM
1 votes:
Me and two friends used to play The Ghost and the Darkness when we were young(named after the movie came out). One person had to get from the end of the long windowless pitch black basement to the opposite wall. The remaining two people started at the opposite wall and had to make a takedown and force him give up by any means possible(usually suffocation via a blanket or a poorly applied bullshiat WCW leglock that actually hurt). The basement had a protruding wetbar with a giant rock base, a stone fireplace that stuck out, various metal vertical support beams strewn about, a ping pong table, etc. There is no reason for all three of us to be alive or without brain damage today. But easily the best memory I have of childhood. Such a great game.
2013-05-10 04:28:37 PM
1 votes:

tlars699: In other words, if there was a system where everyone had access to healthcare, that was paid for by a single central pool, we could go on with living our lives the way they were supposed to be lived?


Slow down, there.... if you think they haven't bubble-wrapped everything in the UK in the name of "Health and Safety" then I think you'll be disappointed.  Concern-trolling IRL is pretty prevalent.
2013-05-10 03:59:11 PM
1 votes:
Said, "Pussification Of America" stems from a number of things, mostly the threat of a lawsuit when someone doesn't get their way, or is "offended" in some other way.  It also comes from the fact that parents in this day and age don't want to pay the rising cost of hospital visits after their child goes and hurts themselves.  So we encourage Little Timmy to do the best that he can, and if not, well, we have the family lawyer on retainer for these sorts of things.
2013-05-10 03:51:51 PM
1 votes:

cettin: ISubmittedThisYesterdayWithAMuchFunnierHeadline: We played a variant of dodgeball in school, and it was brutal.  It's been 35 years or so, and I don't remember what it was called (trenchball, maybe?).  There were no sides...the entire gym was in play for a massive free-for-all.  The whole class would spread out in the gym, and the coaches would throw about 10 of those heavy rubber balls onto the floor.  Since you've got multiple people scrambling for the same ball, the guy who got there second was farked, because the guy who got there first had a free head shot at a range of about 2 feet and would absolutely obliterate you.  Generally, half the class was lying on the sidelines within the first 20 seconds, and then the game settled in.  The strategy became to decide if you could make it to a loose ball before someone else, and if not head the other direction fast.  As the herd thinned more, inevitably one of the stronger players would gravitate towards the phalanx of girls cowering in the corner and commit genocide on them with extreme prejudice.  After the game, everyone would go out on the floor and pick up all the glasses, retainers, shoes, etc. that were strewn about and do it again.  When the coaches announced that we were playing trenchball, about 20 percent of the class was ecstatic, and the other 80 percent wished they were home with the flu...the fear was palpable.  God I loved that game.

This has to be where the beginning of the Hunger Games comes from...


I never thought of it, but that's EXACTLY what it was like.  30 seconds of unimaginable carnage, then 5 minutes of stalking and eluding.
Ant
2013-05-10 03:51:37 PM
1 votes:
I don't know how they do PE now, but when I was a kid, there was always a group of kids who were so competitive that they'd just ruin the whole team sport thing for everyone. The teachers never told these douche-nozzles to STFU, so PE for me was a living hell. I was poor, and had to wear glasses that I could not afford to break. Consequently, I might not have been quite as aggressive when volleyballs, baseballs, basketballs, etc. came my way.
2013-05-10 03:42:37 PM
1 votes:
I for one welcome our new pussy overlords...

It makes dominating competitors in the real world that much easier for my son (Now 24)
2013-05-10 03:33:16 PM
1 votes:

Snakeophelia: Am I the only one here who played crab soccer on rainy days?  That was sweet.  They'd herd all the PE classes into the big gymnasium and haul out this ENORMOUS ball.  Everyone had to get down on hands and feet, facing upwards like a crab.  Split the huge group into two teams, with each assigned a wall. Points were scored by moving the ball far enough to hit the opposing wall, with the only rule being that at least three limbs had to be touching the ground at all times (i.e. you could use only one foot or hand at a time to move the ball, or any other part of your body). Everyone was potentially offense or defense at any time. Much screaming and climbing over bodies ensued.


That was an epic and completely enjoyable sport in every regard. They did it once or twice a year. I wish it was every day.
2013-05-10 03:28:16 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: Our favorite game was to take off a tube sock (they were really long back on the day), put a tennis ball in it, and beat the ever-loving shiat out of each other with them.

We were beyond retarded.


I had friends that would play "nutball." You'd pretty much catch your friend off guard and throw a tennis ball at their nuts when they least suspected it. I hated it and knew it was a terrible idea. I got hit one two many times and then caught one of the worst perpetrators watching a movie with his legs open, so I chucked an orange at his crotch. We didn't play it much more after that.

I knew a couple of guys that did it back-and-forth (back-to-back, with the tennis ball) as some kind of endurance test. I will never understand why.,
2013-05-10 03:28:00 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: Our favorite game was to take off a tube sock (they were really long back on the day), put a tennis ball in it, and beat the ever-loving shiat out of each other with them.

We were beyond retarded.


It's the Chicago way.
2013-05-10 03:19:57 PM
1 votes:
I loved dodgeball, but if you don't want to play in PE, you shouldn't have to. In my gym classes, if you wanted to opt out of team games, you could outside and run, or go to the weight room and lift. I suck at/hate basketball, so I'd skip that and go run laps. As long as you were active, it was all good, which is exactly how gym should be handled.

Also, our gym coach was pretty responsible and made sure that no one got picked on.
2013-05-10 03:12:48 PM
1 votes:
Am I the only one here who played crab soccer on rainy days?  That was sweet.  They'd herd all the PE classes into the big gymnasium and haul out this ENORMOUS ball.  Everyone had to get down on hands and feet, facing upwards like a crab.  Split the huge group into two teams, with each assigned a wall. Points were scored by moving the ball far enough to hit the opposing wall, with the only rule being that at least three limbs had to be touching the ground at all times (i.e. you could use only one foot or hand at a time to move the ball, or any other part of your body). Everyone was potentially offense or defense at any time. Much screaming and climbing over bodies ensued.

If you want an aerobic sport that doesn't actually require athletic ability - in fact, it pretty much levels the playing field - and allows players to be as team-oriented or solo as they like, it's hard to beat that.  As a teenage runt with no hand-eye coordination and very little overall athletic ability, I really enjoyed that I could crab-scuttle with the best of them.

/which is to say, we all sucked equally, and the ball was pretty much in control of whether it hit the wall
2013-05-10 03:07:17 PM
1 votes:
Anyone remember Capture the Flag?

We played outrageous, engrossing games of Capture the Flag as kids/teenagers. Typically, the game started at dusk and ran an hour or two after dark.

If you're not familiar: playing "field" is divided into two sides. This could be a playground, a whole neighborhood, or, the best for me, a rural 500 acre summer camp (co-ed, 80 other kids same age). Each side has a flag, secured at the rear of the team's territory. There is a jail on each side. The goal of the game is to sneak across (or bum-rush), grab the opposing team's flag, and get the flag back across to your side without being caught. If you crossed enemy lines and got tagged, you had to go to the enemy jail. Once in jail, a member of your own team could cross the lines, and if not caught, could tag you and set you free from jail.

It is a great game for large groups. We had such a blast playing that game as kids.
2013-05-10 02:17:05 PM
1 votes:

Taoist Jedi: mattharvest: So, her whole argument is "I sucked at sports, so sports suck"?

I'm only moderately athletic, rowed crew in college but wasn't brilliant at it, etc. and know that my natural talents lie more in intellectual activities and so that's probably why I worked on them more, but where do you get the ego to think intellectual gifts are intrinsically better than physical?

The sheer chutzpah of acting like kids who are born 'smarter' are somehow better than kids who are born more 'athletic' is just insane, as if the two are somehow opposite ends of a spectrum.  They're completely distinct characteristics.  Kids should be praised for either or both, teaching them to love what they can do well so that they'll work to improve those things and hopefully achieve good or great things.  Telling athletic kids that they suck because they aren't smart enough is no better than telling smart kids they suck because they're not athletic enough.

I think you may be taking too harsh a view- I think her point is less "sports suck" than " "there are or ought to be other ways to teach phys ed than team sports".

To use an academic comparison, most high schools have different levels of math- if you suck at math, you get put in a basic class, if you excel, they place you in advanced calculus. In gym, it's one-size-fits-all, and, unfortunately, what works for an athlete can be very alienating to someone lacking in physical prowess. As one of those people (not yet thirty & I've never been able to touch my toes in my life) a good class on stretching and some kind of progressive strength &/or endurance training would have been a lot more useful than five laps around the gym, gasping, followed by half an hour of trying to avoid a puck to the balls in floor hockey,

We've tried to set different academic levels so all kids get at least a basic education, why not try the same with phys ed?


I spent my whole life doing sports; starting with pee-wee football at age 6 and was on some team until I graduated from college.  Having said that, I can't believe how bad that system was for teaching even the basics of fitness.  It was more 'some old angry guy yelling at you to beat the snot out of some other guy'.  Yeah - we spent time 'lifting weights' or 'running' but it was poorly structured and designed to be miserable.

I had no idea there was an alternative way to work out.
2013-05-10 02:15:15 PM
1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: Private_Citizen: I love these articles - all the jocks relive their glory days of abusing the little/fat/shy/weak kids, and call everyone who disagrees with them a pussy.

Ok, well how about we step it up a notch...instead of Dodge Ball, let the kids play Paint Ball. Even the little kid can pull a trigger, and being the oversized glandular freak means you make a bigger target. Of course, many of the jocks would come home covered from head to toe with bruises and crying about how all the nerds ganged up on him!

And we couldn't have the jocks looking like pussies, could we?

You got smeared and are still seething with resentment, right?


Nah, I was (and am) a martial artist, so I could catch the ball pretty well. Made it the finals in the school wide Dodge Ball tourney even - I just wouldn't target the little kids like the sociopaths did (besides, the more athletic ones are a bigger threat).

Still, if you level the playing field, and give the little kid the same chance as the big kid, I think some of the bigger kids would have to quickly develop strategies for coping with losing. And from what I saw, there was no whiny biatch quite like the uber star jock who suddenly loses to some little kid.
2013-05-10 02:06:38 PM
1 votes:

Magnanimous_J: What a dick.


I do remember getting very specific instruction on shooting basketballs and tennis racket swings, so I will give credit for that.  But throwing a baseball, softball, volleyball, or dodgeball?  Nope.  I'm making up for that with my kids.  Well, I'm dubious about my middle daughter, though she is only three.

nunyadang: Despite her lack of dodge-ball skills she looks like she made it through  life ok so far.

[www.jessicaolien.com image 418x428]


She's hot and skinny; I can see how she might have sucked at sports.

studs up: I posted several times in this thread and I don't think any of my posts were tagged as funny or smart. My self-esteem is really starting to trend down. I called my mom and she said you guys have to give me some kind of trophy for participating, or, there will be lawyers.


If it makes you feel better, I've been coaching youth sports for six seasons and we don't do trophies unless someone wins a tournament.  We'll do "attaboys" for hustle and whatnot, but it is recognition of achievement, not merely presence.  However, the coach on the baseball team gave at least 20 pitches per at-bat to this one kid yesterday (max is six) instead of just sending him along.  It was painful for everyone involved, and fortunately the kid hasn't developed a sense of shame yet.
2013-05-10 02:01:42 PM
1 votes:
Was going to come here to complain that I really don't see what people's problem with dodgeball is, but then I realized we never actually played it in high school.  In elementary school and junior high sure, and it was a blast, but in high school it was always basketball or running laps.
2013-05-10 01:55:32 PM
1 votes:

factoryconnection: What I don't like is how f*cking lazy all those games made the gym teachers out to be. I spent 13 years going to gym class and not one of those motherf*ckers ever took the time to show anyone the proper way to throw or catch sh*t. It took me an hour or two to teach my 5-year-old perfect throwing form that I learned from a YouTube video. You can't tell me all those 20-year-veteran jocks couldn't explain a bit of body mechanics.



That's so true, I never even thought about that. So after watching me miss the basket time after time after time, it never even occurred to the teacher to show me how to throw the damn thing correctly.


What a dick.
2013-05-10 01:51:20 PM
1 votes:
Despite her lack of dodge-ball skills she looks like she made it through  life ok so far.

www.jessicaolien.com
2013-05-10 01:49:55 PM
1 votes:

IAmRight: I'm hardly an internet tough guy. But if dude got his face all broken due to a volleyball being used, he has a glass face. Or was doing something really stupid.


Depends if they're using those shiatty plastic $5 volleyballs that public schools get.  Those things are hard as shiat.
2013-05-10 01:49:45 PM
1 votes:

mattharvest: So, her whole argument is "I sucked at sports, so sports suck"?

I'm only moderately athletic, rowed crew in college but wasn't brilliant at it, etc. and know that my natural talents lie more in intellectual activities and so that's probably why I worked on them more, but where do you get the ego to think intellectual gifts are intrinsically better than physical?

The sheer chutzpah of acting like kids who are born 'smarter' are somehow better than kids who are born more 'athletic' is just insane, as if the two are somehow opposite ends of a spectrum.  They're completely distinct characteristics.  Kids should be praised for either or both, teaching them to love what they can do well so that they'll work to improve those things and hopefully achieve good or great things.  Telling athletic kids that they suck because they aren't smart enough is no better than telling smart kids they suck because they're not athletic enough.


My personal issue is with sports being put on such a farking pedestal.  My highschool football team usually had the best equipment and were treated better by "others in power" in the school.  while the band program had instruments older than some of the teachers and uniforms older than the students.
2013-05-10 01:48:46 PM
1 votes:
I HATED PE.


However, kids today need exercise more than ever.
2013-05-10 01:47:58 PM
1 votes:
Looking back, my main issue with dodgeball (and some degree other sports) was wearing glasses.

Getting hit by the squishy dodgeballs we had?   Even by the biggest 8th grader... meh. I'm pretty good with minor pain.

Getting hit in the bespectacled face?  It's mostly the glasses bashed into your nose that hurts.  Plus my parents let me know that we couldn't afford to replace them often (in the days before $15 Zenni specials, very basic glasses cost $300+ in 2013 terms).

The alternative was not wearing them, which is what I did.  Might as well have been blindfolded. I stand against a wall.  Someone I can't see throws a ball I can't see at me. Zing. I shrug and go to the side and try to find my glasses.  Loads and loads of fun.
2013-05-10 01:42:10 PM
1 votes:

doubled99: Any chance that one of the points of PE was simply to get a little exercise? Games are easier to get kids involved in than just doing jumping jacks or wind sprints.


I get the feeling the author doesn't like exercise either.
2013-05-10 01:39:12 PM
1 votes:
Dear Jessica,

I am sorry you lack coordination or any other athletic ability.  I am sorry you are mad you got picked last during gym class and recess.  Finally, I am sorry none of the boys (or girls if that is your preference) liked you back.  However, your crippling insecurities and failings are your own, so kindly stfu and quit projecting.

kthnxbye.
2013-05-10 01:38:05 PM
1 votes:
In middle school while digging through a supply closet near the gym we found four pairs of boxing gloves. I mean real, old school brown leather gloves -- couldn't have been eight-ouncers.

Our gym teacher said "have at it" -- the only thing he did was make sure there were no heavyweight vs. bantamweight bouts (in relative terms). Pure lack of skill prevented any real ass-kickings and the bouts went on until inevitably someone got tagged so hard he cried -- and yes, that kid suffered for said crying for the rest of his school life.

If that happened today the teacher would be in jail, the school would be on national news, a strike force of lawyers would have airdropped in and every one of us would be in thrice-weekly counseling until the sun burned out.
2013-05-10 01:32:23 PM
1 votes:

Outlaw Thirds: AngryPanda: This author is like my friend who says that even watching sports and enjoying it is unhealthy. Whatever, dude.

Watching sports is unhealthy. Playing them, of course, is definitely healthy.


He meant psychologically unhealthy, though.
2013-05-10 01:26:59 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: ManateeGag: when I was growing up, dodge ball was hardly a team sport.  there was no team work, no helping each other out.  there was a lot of "every man for himself" on both sides of the line.

We played with tennis balls too. Nowadays I think they'd call in grief counselors to share our feelings about some of the bruising we took.

I brought this up in a conversation with a group of my old high school classmates last year. The catalyst was this article. Now, most of my classmates' kids are getting into the late teen age range but there are still a few who started late. My question was when did we become such shiatty parents where we were so overly concerned about our kids and why? When we were growing up, many of our Fathers were WWII and/or Korea vets. We were all but expected to get into fights, (get caught fighting in school you'd get hauled to the gym, put on gloves and headgear and duke it out until tired then get a swat or two and sent to class), get cuts and scrapes, break a bone or two and into mischief. You might get your ass kicked, some stitches, wince at Bactine's sting or wear a cast for a couple of months but it was all part of growing up. A standard reply when you thought you were wronged was 'life's not fair'.

I'm stunned at how parents (when they have parents but that's a whole 'nuther conversation) act towards their kids today. Everyone's a winner, there are no losers, call the cops when a couple of 13 year olds squab on the ball field after school...These parents are in their late 30s to late 40s...just about my age and down. What made them such pussies?


The media.
2013-05-10 01:26:29 PM
1 votes:

ArgusRun: I'm with her. ...


then you are alone
2013-05-10 01:26:14 PM
1 votes:

ArgusRun: I'm with her.  And I excelled at team sports.Team sports is fine though until say 6th grade at which point extra curricular sports are available in school.  I was a great soccer and volleyball player.  I would never be good at softball or basketball.  Why force basketball onto a 12 year old who will never be good at it and is quickly being outpaced by actual players.  The differentiation is less acute at earlier ages, and a good time to offer up multiple sports to kids so they can find one they like.

But truthfully, if the goal pf phys ed is to make kids more physically fit, then browbeating them into a sport for which they have no skill is likely counter productive.  You're bad at it so you hate gym, so you hate exercise, so you never develop any comfortable exercise regimen.  This isn't math or English or even science which are all part of being a well rounded citizen (and an employable one) it's freakin sports.  Your ability to send in a corner kick will never come up in a job interview.  Your weight and your general health though will definitely be noticed.


Hmm, these are fine points.  Perhaps the goal of PE is (or was) transferring some type of sports knowledge.  Seems kind of pointless though because if you're 12 years old and don't care about baseball, you're not likely to start caring.  If anything, I've become less interested in sports as I age.
2013-05-10 01:23:07 PM
1 votes:

NutWrench: I_Am_Weasel: As I recall when I was in school, it was referred to as "murder ball"

They called it, "smear the queer (with the ball)" when I was a kid. I have no idea why: none of us knew what a queer was.


We had a different smear the queer, which was when one kid would get the football and everyone else would try to tackle him.  There was no real goal besides seeing how long you could last.  The rule was you couldn't leave the yard.  This would often result in a "attractive and intelligent African-American pile" which somehow seemed like a normal thing to say at the time.
2013-05-10 01:22:24 PM
1 votes:
It's true that P.E. really isn't educational. It was just variations on "here's a ball. Go play." Everything I know about fitness and health came from learning on my own. It would be nice if P.E. actually taught kids about exercise instead of being an excuse to give coaches an extra paycheck for, essentially, babysitting.
2013-05-10 01:21:59 PM
1 votes:

Lorelle: I always viewed dodgeball as the one sport in which the weaklings could get back at the bullies for tormenting them the rest of the school day.


In my experience, the weaklings couldn't throw hard enough or accurately enough to get back at anyone, while the bullies endeavored to cause as much pain and humiliation as possible.
2013-05-10 01:19:31 PM
1 votes:
Ahh yeah, the old bullshiat line of "things were so good in the golden age". Whats really funny is that 20 years from now there will be another group of idiots pining for the good old days of today and again and again every new generation. You can find thousand year old documents biatching about the same crap in this thread, well probably not exactly the same stuff but close enough.


Speaking as a guy who just turned 40 and works with many twenty somethings, I can't tell you how often younger people make comments about how much cooler everything must have been in the 80's and 90's. And a very large number of "millenials" profess love of musical artists from before their time. When I was a teenager, almost no one "cool" listened to twenty or twenty five year old bands.
Even their own members perceive this generation sucks.
2013-05-10 01:18:32 PM
1 votes:
This thread reeks of Stockholm Syndrome.
2013-05-10 01:15:55 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: sigdiamond2000: I'm almost 40. When I was a kid in the summertime, I would basically disappear, every day, between 8 AM and 10 PM, going pretty much anywhere I wanted to and I'd come home dirty, injured, and exhausted. Every day

Heh. An when we got grounded those that were free to roam hung out at the arrestee's house until we drove his parent (usually stay at home Mom) crazy and we'd ALL get chucked including the offender. This was one of our hangouts. We would roam "the woods" as we called it and there were all kinds of scary things there...Snakes, turtles, poison ivy, hippies smoking weed or engaging in other..ahem...activities (wink wink nudge nudge). We built a ramp at the bottom of a steep  where we would jump our bikes with increasing courage. I can remember having to help at least two friends out with broken arms...The LAST thing we wanted to do was get stuck inside.


Oh god my mom would throw us out of the house in the morning in summer. There were a few "neighborhood" kids (as in they lived within a few miles of us) and we would get together and roam the forest, fields, and swamps. We had one of those big triangles on our back porch and when we heard my mom ringing that we'd come back for lunch and then go back out till dinner. And then we stayed out till the sunset which in Michigan was around 9:30-10 PM in the summer. I don't think we were inside for more than an hour at a time unless we were sleeping. And really we never wanted to be.
2013-05-10 01:14:59 PM
1 votes:
People gave a shiat about gym class?  I was good at sports and it never occurred to me that it mattered to anyone.  It's just gym.  It matters if you're at tryouts or on the team, but no one cares that you suck at gym.

I didn't even notice you sucking if that makes you feel better.
2013-05-10 01:10:35 PM
1 votes:
It's cute when Slate articles try to look like real journalism.

My younger kid starts middle school next year, she would burn and loot if we took her out of PE even though she sucks at dodgeball.  Our kids today need better coping skills.
2013-05-10 01:10:34 PM
1 votes:
Writing 1099 word long article takes the place of two 50-minute sessions with author's psychotherapist.
2013-05-10 01:06:26 PM
1 votes:
What's weird is,though I was definitely an outcast at school, I nonetheless loved dodgeball because it was a way to practice running away in a quasi-controlled environment.
2013-05-10 01:06:10 PM
1 votes:
Sissy "I wanted to play team sports but sucked so no one else should be allowed to play them either"
2013-05-10 01:02:29 PM
1 votes:
I played dodgeball for the first time when I was 30 (two years ago).

It is without a doubt the most fun I have ever had playing sports. My fat teammates had fun too. There is this unspoken loyalty in every team. The athletic dudes protect the slow pokes and some even sacrifice themselves to expose the adversaries.

I say we need more dodgeball in schools.

/serious
2013-05-10 12:42:21 PM
1 votes:
Sports suck but dodgeball is not a team sport. Sometimes there's a line on the floor, but that does not mean there are teams.
2013-05-10 12:33:13 PM
1 votes:
I used to dismiss the "pussification of America" crowd as codgers and internet tough guys, but articles like this are making it harder and harder not to agree with them.

It is un-f*cking-believable what blubbering, effort-averse weaklings this country is producing.
2013-05-10 12:09:07 PM
1 votes:
I always viewed dodgeball as the one sport in which the weaklings could get back at the bullies for tormenting them the rest of the school day.
2013-05-10 11:59:30 AM
1 votes:
Sure, ban all of the sports in gym, but then complain that kids are fat. Team sports are sometimes the only fun part of gym. ESPECIALLY dodgeball, one of the only games I was any good at.
2013-05-10 11:48:22 AM
1 votes:
As I recall when I was in school, it was referred to as "murder ball"
2013-05-10 11:42:50 AM
1 votes:

impaler: I sucked at team sports, but I loved dodgeball.

Kickball can go fark itself.


Same here. We lived for it. We had 3 PE periods a week, and if we were really good, we got to play dodge ball on Friday.
2013-05-10 11:19:20 AM
1 votes:
Team, as in "everyone target the fat, shy kid hiding in the corner so we can start a new game"
2013-05-10 11:18:52 AM
1 votes:
Here's some more of Jessica Olien's "work" in case you hate yourself.
2013-05-10 11:09:04 AM
1 votes:
You mean the most awesome team sport of all.
 
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