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(Ars Technica)   This is your brain. This is your brain on heroin. Ha-ha, no it's not, thanks to this vaccine   (arstechnica.com) divider line 53
    More: Interesting, Scripps Research Institute, relapses, small molecule, process work, heroin, vaccines  
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8994 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 11:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 11:56:43 AM
Good.  Now put this in the water supply in Cincinnati, Seattle, New York, Baltimore, & LA.
 
2013-05-10 11:57:25 AM
So does this mean I don't have to quit?
 
2013-05-10 11:58:15 AM
Torturers dance in glee
 
2013-05-10 11:59:39 AM
Vaccinating the rats required three doses within a month, and the rats still could get a hit off the drug-it just took a lot more of it.

Best. Cure. Ever.
 
2013-05-10 11:59:57 AM
What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?
 
2013-05-10 12:00:18 PM
They need to make this for METH.

/so do you still get high or what? Oh you need 6 times MORE of the drug to get the same feeling? Yeah not so good.
 
2013-05-10 12:02:02 PM
HA! (*^▽^*)        HA!
 
2013-05-10 12:02:34 PM
In other news, every needle is now a vaccine.
 
2013-05-10 12:02:45 PM
This seems kinda awesome. Hooray science!
 
2013-05-10 12:05:39 PM
This is dangerous.

An opiate blocker that is reversible is one thing, an opiate blocker that is permanent will kill people.

Opiates are still the most effective pain treatment available, and this stops not only the high, but also the pain relief.  Pain can easily make people suicidal.

If this is used at all, and I'm not sure it ever should be, it needs to be under carefully controlled circumstances, and with a very limited number of people.
 
2013-05-10 12:09:06 PM

DarkVader: This is dangerous.

An opiate blocker that is reversible is one thing, an opiate blocker that is permanent will kill people.

Opiates are still the most effective pain treatment available, and this stops not only the high, but also the pain relief.  Pain can easily make people suicidal.

If this is used at all, and I'm not sure it ever should be, it needs to be under carefully controlled circumstances, and with a very limited number of people.


So you're saying that state-mandated vaccinations for middle-schoolers would be a bad idea?
 
2013-05-10 12:10:39 PM
What a disgusting idea.
 
2013-05-10 12:11:23 PM

DarkVader: This is dangerous.

An opiate blocker that is reversible is one thing, an opiate blocker that is permanent will kill people.

Opiates are still the most effective pain treatment available, and this stops not only the high, but also the pain relief.  Pain can easily make people suicidal.

If this is used at all, and I'm not sure it ever should be, it needs to be under carefully controlled circumstances, and with a very limited number of people.


Absolutely dead on. Also, permanently blocking a receptor whose primary functions are relieving pain and producing pleasurable sensation/euphoria? fark that. That's dystopian nightmare stuff.
 
2013-05-10 12:11:32 PM
Switch to china white and this stuff would be useless. Or oxycodone. Plus yeah, addicts may well just up the dose to overcome the stuff, which could be dangerous in a variety of other ways.

Never tried the hard opiates, never will (unless under medical direction, obviously) because of the potential to just get lost in there. Helping people get themselves back is important. Not sure how useful an aid this would be though.
 
2013-05-10 12:13:27 PM

DarkVader: This is dangerous.

An opiate blocker that is reversible is one thing, an opiate blocker that is permanent will kill people.

Opiates are still the most effective pain treatment available, and this stops not only the high, but also the pain relief.  Pain can easily make people suicidal.

If this is used at all, and I'm not sure it ever should be, it needs to be under carefully controlled circumstances, and with a very limited number of people.


I assure you, every single thing labeled a vaccine is perfectly safe, because science. You don't hate science, do you?
 
2013-05-10 12:14:34 PM
So in other words, it blocks the high but not the craving or the destructive behavior that goes along with the craving.

Yeah, that'll work...
 
2013-05-10 12:17:24 PM

StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?


Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?
 
2013-05-10 12:17:31 PM

Gothnet: Switch to china white and this stuff would be useless. Or oxycodone. Plus yeah, addicts may well just up the dose to overcome the stuff, which could be dangerous in a variety of other ways.

Never tried the hard opiates, never will (unless under medical direction, obviously) because of the potential to just get lost in there. Helping people get themselves back is important. Not sure how useful an aid this would be though.


good thing you never tried them because you're wrong about everything else you said.
 
2013-05-10 12:20:57 PM

J. Frank Parnell: DarkVader: This is dangerous.

An opiate blocker that is reversible is one thing, an opiate blocker that is permanent will kill people.

Opiates are still the most effective pain treatment available, and this stops not only the high, but also the pain relief.  Pain can easily make people suicidal.

If this is used at all, and I'm not sure it ever should be, it needs to be under carefully controlled circumstances, and with a very limited number of people.

I assure you, every single thing labeled a vaccine is perfectly safe, because science. You don't hate science, do you?


Yes, yes and harnessing fire was wonderful for the advancement of humanity, but it can still kill your whole family and burn everything you love to ashes.

Get over it. Risks of vaccines for infectious disease are astronomically outweighed by the benefits. It's a tool, a technology, just like anything else in our kit. And vaccines can certainly be used in the wrong manner. Preventing needless death is NOT the wrong manner.
 
2013-05-10 12:21:27 PM

Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?


This particular 'vaccine' sounded like it was short term (needed to be reapplied frequently) and low efficacy (could be overcome by higher doses) so this isn't so much of an issue here. It also sounded like it was keyed to the heroin and morphine molecules so it's quite likely that synthetic opiods like fentanil would sneak right past.
 
2013-05-10 12:22:33 PM

Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?


Oh, I don't know, maybe because they are chemically distinct and the antibodies would be attaching to the molecule that is distinctly heroin?
 
2013-05-10 12:23:18 PM

Gothnet: Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?

This particular 'vaccine' sounded like it was short term (needed to be reapplied frequently) and low efficacy (could be overcome by higher doses) so this isn't so much of an issue here. It also sounded like it was keyed to the heroin and morphine molecules so it's quite likely that synthetic opiods like fentanil would sneak right past.


they all hit the same receptors.
 
2013-05-10 12:23:19 PM
media.nbcmiami.com

WUT?
 
2013-05-10 12:23:31 PM

Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?


Short answer: you can't.
The stuff they give addicts comes with a bracelet letting medical folks know they're going to need a much higher dose of pain meds to get the same effect, if it can be achieved at all. Permanent blockade of this is not advisable, humane, or even sane. I say this as a doctor.
 
2013-05-10 12:25:51 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because they are chemically distinct and the antibodies would be attaching to the molecule that is distinctly heroin?


Guess I should read TFA. If its antibodies to a single specific molecule like heroin and/or isn't permanent, I could unbunch my panties.
 
2013-05-10 12:26:04 PM

ChipNASA: They need to make this for METH.

/so do you still get high or what? Oh you need 6 times MORE of the drug to get the same feeling? Yeah not so good.


Unless you plan is to make sure that all the heroin addicts OD eventually.
 
2013-05-10 12:27:16 PM

nburghmatt: Gothnet: Switch to china white and this stuff would be useless. Or oxycodone. Plus yeah, addicts may well just up the dose to overcome the stuff, which could be dangerous in a variety of other ways.

Never tried the hard opiates, never will (unless under medical direction, obviously) because of the potential to just get lost in there. Helping people get themselves back is important. Not sure how useful an aid this would be though.

good thing you never tried them because you're wrong about everything else you said.



Care to elaborate?

Did you read the article and how the vaccine provokes the body to create antibodies that bind to the heroin molecules? Heroin molecules are significantly different from synthetics like fentanyl(china white) and unlikely to be matched by the same antibodies.

Do you dispute that taking six times the dose of heroin in order to overcome these antibodies (again in the article) could have dangerous effect? For instance there are opiate/opioid receptors in the bowels too, which is how loperamide/immodium works, so having not only six times as much heroin in the blood, but a greater concentration staying in the blood, might have odd effects on the body?

Or did you just feel like being an arse?
 
2013-05-10 12:27:55 PM

nburghmatt: they all hit the same receptors.


Good thing this vaccine is nothing to do with receptors then eh!
 
2013-05-10 12:28:45 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: Get over it. Risks of vaccines for infectious disease are astronomically outweighed by the benefits. It's a tool, a technology, just like anything else in our kit. And vaccines can certainly be used in the wrong manner. Preventing needless death is NOT the wrong manner.


Not sure where you're getting all that. I'm just pointing out every vaccine someone produces is safe as much as every pill someone produces is. And this particular one is only a vaccine in name. Many people act like all vaccines are above question, and that's ridiculous. They should be held to the same standards as any other medicine, not treated like some sacred cow.
 
2013-05-10 12:35:18 PM
This isn't an opioid blocker.

Heroin is rapidly converted to morphine in the body. This is why rapid administration (IV) is needed. As heroin, it crosses the blood-brain barrier rapidly because of acetyl groups that make it more hydrophobic.

This attacks that particular feature while having little effect on morphine and other opioids.

Tricking the immune system into doing this is still incredibly dangerous.
 
2013-05-10 12:35:50 PM
ha ha ha, you think this is the real Quaid?
 
2013-05-10 12:45:13 PM
This is your brain heroin. This is your brain on heroin.

Corrected for you. Get it right.

/honestly is my pet-peeve
 
2013-05-10 12:47:32 PM

Gothnet: Switch to china white and this stuff would be useless. Or oxycodone. Plus yeah, addicts may well just up the dose to overcome the stuff, which could be dangerous in a variety of other ways.

Never tried the hard opiates, never will (unless under medical direction, obviously) because of the potential to just get lost in there. Helping people get themselves back is important. Not sure how useful an aid this would be though.


the high from opiates is awful.  it's quite a headache.  and makes you say MARRY ME JEN over and over
 
2013-05-10 12:58:36 PM

Prince George: ChipNASA: They need to make this for METH.

/so do you still get high or what? Oh you need 6 times MORE of the drug to get the same feeling? Yeah not so good.

Unless you plan is to make sure that all the heroin addicts OD eventually.


As a former heroin user I'm sorta ambivalent about this "cure"...as was said it'll make addicts more likely to OD. I finally got off the shiat six years ago with good old fashion subutex.

/currently HIV positive. Don't even think of shooting. Anything.
 
2013-05-10 01:02:48 PM
Since so few people decided to read the source here is a key quote from the abstract.

"Because the heroin vaccine does not target opioid receptors or common opioid pharmacotherapeutics, it can be used in conjunction with available treatment options. Thus, our vaccine represents a promising adjunct therapy for heroin addiction, providing continuous heroin antagonism, requiring minimal medical monitoring and patient compliance."
 
2013-05-10 01:07:28 PM
Every time I saw that, this is your brain on drugs commercial I got hungry for eggs.
 
2013-05-10 01:32:00 PM
I thought heroin was one of those drugs that actually doesn't do the body much harm, it being rather intrinsic to how the human body itself deals with muscle strain and pain an' all - it's rather the neglect of everything else that does it.
 
2013-05-10 01:37:15 PM
Ha-ha trifecta now in play.
 
2013-05-10 02:12:10 PM
addiction is a myth, proven here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Relevant quote: "In another experiment, he forced rats in ordinary lab cages to consume morphine for 57 days on end, giving them no liquid to drink other than the morphine-laced solution, then moved them into Rat Park, where he allowed them to choose between the morphine solution and plain water. They drank the plain water. He writes that they did show some signs of dependence, but no sign of addiction. There were "some minor withdrawal signs, twitching, what have you, but there were none of the mythic seizures and sweats you so often hear about"

the true vaccine is to make everyone's life good enough that chemicals aren't the option that gives them the most fulfillment
 
2013-05-10 02:24:15 PM

Hickory-smoked: This is your brain heroin. This is your brain on heroin.

Corrected for you. Get it right.

/honestly is my pet-peeve



I remember them holding up an egg and saying "This is your brain" and then they cracked it into a fying pan and said "this is your brain on drugs"

It wouldn't make any sense starting with "this is heroin" and holding up an egg...then cracking it.  Then my brain would be the skillet-which is frying the heroin?
 
2013-05-10 02:25:35 PM
 RembrandtQEinstein: addiction is a myth, proven here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Relevant quote: "In another experiment, he forced rats in ordinary lab cages to consume morphine for 57 days on end, giving them no liquid to drink other than the morphine-laced solution, then moved them into Rat Park, where he allowed them to choose between the morphine solution and plain water. They drank the plain water. He writes that they did show some signs of dependence, but no sign of addiction. There were "some minor withdrawal signs, twitching, what have you, but there were none of the mythic seizures and sweats you so often hear about"

the true vaccine is to make everyone's life good enough that chemicals aren't the option that gives them the most fulfillment


That doesn't mean addiction is a myth.  It means it's a lot more complex than mere chemical dependency, but it doesn't mean it's a myth.
 
2013-05-10 02:40:51 PM

2KanZam: I remember them holding up an egg and saying "This is your brain" and then they cracked it into a fying pan and said "this is your brain on drugs"


That's how I remember it.  This is an egg/your brain.  This is a frying pan/drugs.  This is an egg frying in a frying pan/your brain on drugs.  Any questions?

Yeah, can I get bacon with that?
 
2013-05-10 03:21:20 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: Silverstaff: StoPPeRmobile: What happens when vaccinated people need surgery?

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering.

How can you block illegal heroin, and not make somebody immune to legal painkillers that may be needed in post-surgical recovery or emergency/trauma medicine?

Short answer: you can't.
The stuff they give addicts comes with a bracelet letting medical folks know they're going to need a much higher dose of pain meds to get the same effect, if it can be achieved at all. Permanent blockade of this is not advisable, humane, or even sane. I say this as a doctor.


I am so glad that this came up today because I had an employee come to me this week wanting to know how to file a BCBS claim.  When I started questioning him on what kind of doctor did not have anyone to complete the paperwork, he said that his wife was hooked on loratabs and this doctor (who is in the middle of BFE) was the only one who would do this opiate blocker treatment but she does not file any claims - everything must be paid in cash...

He said it would take one year of treatment but this was the most effective way to break the addiction.  I knew it was a stupid idea, but I had no idea just how stupid until now.
 
2013-05-10 03:26:45 PM
Vaccine...

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-10 05:03:50 PM
.... and then when we get Cancer how will the morphine work?
Dumbest idea ever.
Free poppy seeds for everybody is a better idea than that.
 
2013-05-10 05:39:26 PM
For everyone predicting doom from opiate blockers: Did you see the part in the article that mentioned it has to be administered three times a month?
 
2013-05-10 05:57:22 PM

Cid_Highwind: For everyone predicting doom from opiate blockers: Did you see the part in the article that mentioned it has to be administered three times a month?


Better than methadone.
 
2013-05-10 06:27:08 PM

Cid_Highwind: For everyone predicting doom from opiate blockers: Did you see the part in the article that mentioned it has to be administered three times a month?


That's not what it says. Try this, "Vaccinating the rats required three doses within a month". Multiple doses are needed to make the vaccine effective, which is pretty normal for several human vaccines, as well (anthrax comes to mind).

Reading comprehension...how does it work?
 
2013-05-10 07:04:39 PM

2KanZam: Hickory-smoked: This is your brain heroin. This is your brain on heroin.

Corrected for you. Get it right.

/honestly is my pet-peeve


I remember them holding up an egg and saying "This is your brain" and then they cracked it into a fying pan and said "this is your brain on drugs"


Huh.
The first one I remember seeing is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl5gBJGnaXs

but I guess they did it this way too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_a2t0ZfTs

I guess I owe someone an appology. Or at least some drugs.

nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-10 09:50:23 PM
Stone Meadow:
Reading comprehension...how does it work?

I dunno doc, you're the expert.
 
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