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(Slate)   Could you have refused to let police enter your home during the Boston lockdown?   (slate.com) divider line 403
    More: Interesting, Boston, lockdowns, search teams  
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13442 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 10:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 06:47:11 AM
Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.
 
2013-05-10 06:52:54 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops

 pretend that you have rights.

FTFY
 
2013-05-10 07:15:35 AM
Absolutely, and if I any drug paraphernalia lying around I would have.

 

Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.


I pretty sure not consenting to a search isn't probably cause.

Of course the other way to handle it is to just not answer the door.  I am fairly certain they didn't kick down all the locked doors.
 
2013-05-10 07:41:34 AM
the police were conducting a "sweep" and not a "search", a very important distinction (at least in the cop's minds).  it's the same reason they call someone a "person of interest" instead of "suspect"
 
2013-05-10 08:04:42 AM
Apologizing later is a core feature of law enforcement.
 
2013-05-10 09:00:15 AM
If Boston cops show up at my door there's gonna be trouble.
 
2013-05-10 09:20:49 AM
Exigent circumstances, they probably could have kicked in the door without a fuss from the judges.
 
2013-05-10 09:28:14 AM
I don't know if I'd have the balls to try it.
 
2013-05-10 09:36:08 AM
Absolutely. But what are the ownership laws like in Mass?
 
2013-05-10 09:39:13 AM
Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.
 
2013-05-10 10:33:14 AM

SilentStrider: Exigent circumstances, they probably could have kicked in the door without a fuss from the judges.


That likely would only work for those in the area where they had seen the guy. Someone a mile or more away? That wouldn't really work. Then again they were only searching within a very narrow area in the first place.
 
2013-05-10 10:33:17 AM
Now, I don't know what the legal framework was behind the door-to-door canvass, or how exactly outright refusals would have been (or were) processed. I'm sure they had legal counsel close at hand throughout the duration of the event.

Well, that's good to know when you're about to read a reasoned discussion of the event that occurred...
 
2013-05-10 10:33:20 AM
Pretty sure they had a number of judges standing by, 24/7, during the search, just waiting for someone to say 'no'.

At which point, the judge fills in the address info, signs his name to a warrant for a search of the premises and it's legit for the cops to kick the door down and find out why you're not being cooperative at a time like that.
 
2013-05-10 10:33:22 AM

Shostie: Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.


That's how it went down in my head too, except then I pet my miniature giraffe on the head.
 
2013-05-10 10:33:46 AM
Let's not forget that it isn't a legal search, so if some jackass cop did decide to arrest you for something they saw in your house, it is going to be thrown out of court.

OTOH, if they seized something from you during said search, you're basically farked.
 
2013-05-10 10:34:07 AM
I totally did but I don't live in watertown or whatever
Also I don't have any weed
 
2013-05-10 10:34:25 AM

Shostie: Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.


Reading shiat like this reminds me why I usually don't smoke pot in the morning.
 
2013-05-10 10:35:32 AM

Fano: Shostie: Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.

That's how it went down in my head too, except then I pet my miniature giraffe on the head.


i.ytimg.com
 
2013-05-10 10:36:27 AM

nekom: I don't know if I'd have the balls to try it.


Ya, same.
 
2013-05-10 10:36:40 AM

bongmiester: the police were conducting a "sweep" and not a "search", a very important distinction (at least in the cop's minds).  it's the same reason they call someone a "person of interest" instead of "suspect"


Sweeps are still searches. Just because people coined a phrase for a limited search doesn't mean it isn't one.
 
2013-05-10 10:36:46 AM
It'd be interesting if someone had said "no".

They'd have come in anyway of course, probably kicked in the door, probably shot the dog and made a mess of the place.

Then if they'd found anything related to the suspect or the suspect himself (hiding in the back yard in a boat) his defense lawyer could argue rightly that all the evidence collected during that search including any found on the suspect when he was taken into custody was tainted.

"Exigent circumstances" are a two edged sword.
 
2013-05-10 10:37:58 AM
If warrants were deemed required, they could be had quickly.

Then do so. "You see this car? C'mon man, buy it. I've got three other people who want to buy this thing." I understand the salesmanship but I've seen this story before.
 
2013-05-10 10:38:47 AM
they can search anything they want.  the issue is whether the search was warranted.  if it was unwarranted, then they can't use evidence they found in the search in a trial against you

(they may be able to use it against someone else though, someone who has zero expectation of privacy... i don't know the deep corners of criminal procedure, but i'd bet an intruder has no expectation of privacy, so anything they found in an illegal search of your house could still go against an uninvited intruder, maybe... could be an interesting issue.  probably a very simple legal answer, but I haven't researched it before)

generally, the home is considered one of the most private areas, granting it the most protection.  however, there are many exceptions to the requirement that searching a home requires a warrant.  a criminal in flight, especially one who may be armed with guns and bombs, pretty much fits the bill of several exceptions (criminal in flight, destruction of evidence, public safety)

not to mention, they can only lawfully search for what they're looking for, even with the exception.  (a person sized thing, can't rifle through drawers, etc) (unless another exception applies, like the plain sight rule)
 
2013-05-10 10:38:52 AM
You could have, but that isn't going to stop them.

Police statements like "can I search your.." means it will be the difference is how cooperative you want to be.
 
2013-05-10 10:38:55 AM

Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.


fark that noise. If I know he's not in my house why should I let officers search or "Sweep" my home?

/"We're searching the whole city" isn't probable cause
 
2013-05-10 10:39:37 AM
I feel they were just working the bugs out of an experiment in how effective martial law could be mandated.

/just a thought
 
2013-05-10 10:39:51 AM
tl;dr version: Yes, but then they would have gotten an emergency warrant and legally entered 20 minutes later anyway.
 
2013-05-10 10:39:53 AM

The Angry Hand of God: Shostie: Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.

Reading shiat like this reminds me why I usually don't smoke pot in the morning.


Just trying to soak up some of the internet tough guy before it gets started.
 
2013-05-10 10:40:33 AM
So the basic answer from this retired pig, aka cop, is "WHATEVA, WHATEVA, WE DO WHAT WE WANT, WE DO WHAT WE WANT!"

His answers are BS though.
"Well we did a sweep of your house, not a search so it's OK, we don't need no stinkin warrant"
THE F*CK????
You aren't getting in my house without a f*cking warrant. Call your stroll thru it whatever you want, but you're not allowed in with a warrant.
 
2013-05-10 10:41:17 AM

EvilEgg: Absolutely, and if I any drug paraphernalia lying around I would have.

 Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.

I pretty sure not consenting to a search isn't probably cause.


You're high right now, aren't you?
 
2013-05-10 10:41:26 AM
It's much easier to find a person than it is to hide drugs or other contraband.  The cops probably breezed through the properties they wanted to search with IR goggles, and didn't open any drawers or closets.  I don't think anyone was at risk of having their stash discovered.
But this is all just my idle speculation.
 
2013-05-10 10:41:49 AM
I have been wondering about this. What, really? NO ONE refused? Not one person in the thousands of homes into which they walked.

It seems unlikely...
 
2013-05-10 10:42:03 AM

ga362: /just a thought


A silly one but, yes, still, technically, a thought.

/ no, I'm not William, Shatner
// I, don't think, anyway
 
2013-05-10 10:43:25 AM

Shostie: The Angry Hand of God: Shostie: Maaaaaaaaaaan, if those cops came to my door and been like, "are you hiding something?" I would have been, like, "yeeeeeah, motherf*cker," and then karate chop, "I'm hiding my motherf*ckin' kung fu!" And then after me kicking their asses with my jeet kun do and sleeping with their girlfriends and daughters for a half hour, they would have been, like, "man, Shostie, your kung fu skills are incredible and you're a smooth motherf*cker to sleep with my girlfriend and get her pregnant. I'm going to raise that child as my own because I'm a little b*tch and maybe your child will teach me to not suck so much dick at everything I do."

And then those f*ckers would buy me some ice cream.

Reading shiat like this reminds me why I usually don't smoke pot in the morning.

Just trying to soak up some of the internet tough guy before it gets started.


I didn't even take it that way.  I was just picturing Hong Kong Phooey throwing pressure cookers at the police.
 
2013-05-10 10:43:30 AM

skozlaw: tl;dr version: Yes, but then they would have gotten an emergency warrant and legally entered 20 minutes later anyway.


With the whole house surrounded in the interim, and the occupants getting their entire house turned upside down, their selves strip searched and probably spending a few hours in custody being questioned carefully.

When the whole city is in a panic over an escaped terrorist, anyone not cooperating is going to get more than his fair share of scrutiny and unwanted attention.

Honestly, if the cops came to your door and said 'we need to search, and aside from any dead bodies or kidnapped kids, we really don't care what we find in your house as long as the terrorist isn't in there', people are going to throw the door wide and say 'have at it'.
 
2013-05-10 10:43:33 AM
Does everyone understand they were looking for bombers? Was there One. Single. Arrest. made due to anything found during these "sweeps?"

/dislikes cops
//not a republitard
 
2013-05-10 10:43:37 AM
No.
 
2013-05-10 10:43:44 AM

Voiceofreason01: Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.

fark that noise. If I know he's not in my house why should I let officers search or "Sweep" my home?

/"We're searching the whole city" isn't probable cause


The guy didn't know he was in his boat. There was a family of illegals who lived in the attic of a home for quite some time. They worked on a crew to reroof the home and built a little room in the rafters with a trap door that came out on the roof.

Let the police decide where the killer of several people--including one cop--is hiding with his bombs and guns. ( I know he was unarmed but no-one knew that at the time.)
 
2013-05-10 10:43:55 AM
Well, most people cooperated just fine because they wanted to help get the bombers. I'm sure 99% of it was the cops asking if all was well at the residence.

Not good enough for manchildren who need to live out rambo fantasies with sub-par firearms though.
 
2013-05-10 10:43:57 AM

Voiceofreason01: Elvis_Bogart: Yes.  And they would have said "Probable Cause!" and kicked your door in, slapped you in cuffs and shot your dog.  That was NOT a good night to play "Criminal Justice 101" with the cops.

fark that noise. If I know he's not in my house why should I let officers search or "Sweep" my home?

/"We're searching the whole city" isn't probable cause


Hopefully as I led the cop through my house, there'd be a lot of "could be, rabbit, could be."
 
2013-05-10 10:45:02 AM
I would not have allowed a "sweep" or "search" of my home without a warrant. I would have expected a beat down.

I live in Texas so I do not think it will happen here soon.
 
2013-05-10 10:46:16 AM
It's nice TFA has a helpful pic of northern Ireland in the 70's
 
2013-05-10 10:46:21 AM

Walker: You aren't getting in my house without a f*cking warrant.


You're awfully angry for a guy with such terrible reading comprehension skills.

Cops standing on your porch: no sweep
Cops standing in your living room because you already let them in: sweep

You have every right to deny the cops entry and unless they have a reasonable suspicion that there is an emergency going on that justified immediate entry, they cannot come in. However, once inside, the cops may sweep the residence for safety reasons but they can only look for a person in hiding, not search for whatever they feel like unless you also allow that.

However, in this situation, the odds are pretty damn good they had legal counsel and judges ready to sign off on emergency warrants so, unless you just wanted to be an obstinate prick and stand on technicality, there was no practical reason to say no if they asked.
 
2013-05-10 10:46:47 AM

Walker: So the basic answer from this retired pig, aka cop, is "WHATEVA, WHATEVA, WE DO WHAT WE WANT, WE DO WHAT WE WANT!"

His answers are BS though.
"Well we did a sweep of your house, not a search so it's OK, we don't need no stinkin warrant"
THE F*CK????
You aren't getting in my house without a f*cking warrant. Call your stroll thru it whatever you want, but you're not allowed in with a warrant.


There we go...
 
2013-05-10 10:47:12 AM
Any Farkers from Boston have a slant on this?

Did they feel safer or threatened by SWAT teams going door to door in their neighborhoods?
 
2013-05-10 10:47:23 AM

Infernalist: Pretty sure they had a number of judges standing by, 24/7, during the search, just waiting for someone to say 'no'.

At which point, the judge fills in the address info, signs his name to a warrant for a search of the premises and it's legit for the cops to kick the door down and find out why you're not being cooperative at a time like that.


The warrant would be invalid.

You can't use refusal of a search as justification for a search warrant, and without some probable cause such as a blood trail or some other evidence that a suspect is in your house, they can't claim exigent circumstances either.
 
2013-05-10 10:48:15 AM
I see the legion of internet tough guys are in full swing here. Carry on, boys. Carry on.
 
2013-05-10 10:48:33 AM
What if they find the dead hooker? Can they use the body against me as evidence?
 
2013-05-10 10:50:38 AM
The reason we do "Monday morning quarterbacking" is to have a framework in place the next time so this whole thing is not a legal clusterfark where the only hope is "I hope nobody pushes the legal limits or tries to find out where the limits are".
 
2013-05-10 10:51:30 AM
what did they do to the houses where no one was home, or refused to come to the door?  did they kick the door in?
 
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