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(Opposing Views)   School dedicates a portion of its website to a student who just died. Fark: And that's how the parents found out their kid was dead   (opposingviews.com) divider line 134
    More: Sad, Sussex Police, students  
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25604 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2013 at 1:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-10 02:45:01 AM  

Pert: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

Because he was at boarding school and the school has legal responsibility for him and the hospitalonly have the school's contact details and it should be for the school to notify the parents?


He was at day school.  I don't know how this changes anything.
 
2013-05-10 02:46:48 AM  

ElizaDoolittle: He was at day school. I don't know how this changes anything.


loco parentis
 
2013-05-10 02:48:26 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.




Well keep in mind he is at boarding school... the school administrators have temporary guardianship over their students, since they live at the school and are the responsibility of the school. Im pretty sure you give private boarding schools permission to make medical decisions etc in the contract. So in that context, it makes sense.

I think what happened here though is the kid got splatted right off the bat, in front of half the school (or at least anyone at the athletic field). So the school went ahead and began emergency counseling and addressing the problem of traumatized students right away.

Sucks for the parents, but the only reason they are suing the school and demanding the guys resignation is because they are pissed their child is dead and they need to lash out at somebody. Which really irritates me. At least they arent calling politicians demanding laws be written yet.
 
2013-05-10 02:48:33 AM  
Here, you might have problems with that

Let me google that for you
 
2013-05-10 02:49:28 AM  
RLy THo anyone whose been through some serious stuff I bless and stay strong,
 
2013-05-10 02:50:19 AM  

impaler: HotWingAgenda: I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient.

What if that "whoever" is the loco parentis?


That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.  He wasn't a goddamn orphan.
 
2013-05-10 02:52:29 AM  

ElizaDoolittle: Pert: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

Because he was at boarding school and the school has legal responsibility for him and the hospitalonly have the school's contact details and it should be for the school to notify the parents?

He was at day school.  I don't know how this changes anything.




He was at a boarding school.. the exact opposite of a day school.

/Did I just get trolled or is this guy really that thick?
 
2013-05-10 02:56:43 AM  

HotWingAgenda: That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.


Wow. You have a hard time discerning reality from fantasy don't you? No where was it ever indicated that happened, but here you are saying it did.

Because during an extreme life threatening emergency, paramedics will pause to let secretaries pull up contact information from the office files...
 
2013-05-10 02:58:31 AM  

Alonjar: He was at a boarding school.. the exact opposite of a day school.


Lies! People are at boarding school during the day!

/now if he was at night school...
 
2013-05-10 03:07:25 AM  

Gyrfalcon: doglover: I don't think that's such a problem. They were already aware their son was in the hospital greviously hurt and they were en route. It's not like the school didn't contact them ASAP. And quite frankly, if you send your kids to boarding school, they're out of your family for the time and part of that organization. That organization has an obligation to its members when something happens to one.

Tragedy, but compared to the Syria situation and stuff like that it's a non-issue.

Yeah, mostly this. Welcome to the age where instantaneous communication is now possible. Yes, it was very sad that someone at the school jumped the gun; but would the parents be "suing the school" if one of the kid's classmates had found out and posted it on his Facebook first without the school's knowledge? Or would they now be suing the doctor for daring to pronounce the boy dead before the parents could get there first?

I now foresee a whole new era of people being kept alive on breathing machines so this doesn't happen--"Yes, your son died 14 hours ago, but we didn't dare pronounce in case you felt like suing us because his friends wanted to tell you how sorry they were ahead of your official grief?"


The whole doctor pronouncing you dead thing, that has to go in garbage.

You're dead when you're dead. We have to define what that means specifically, but it doesn't matter if there's even another human in the galaxy you're in when you die. It doesn't matter if medical science finds a way to resurrect you after you die. The fact is when your body is dead it's dead and that's it. The doctor's pronouncement is a legal formailty from the age of lawyers, which is an age whose time has come. We must reject the lawyers and those who support their dark arts like the Aztecs abandoned human sacrifice and became the Mexicans.
 
2013-05-10 03:08:20 AM  

impaler: HotWingAgenda: That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.

Wow. You have a hard time discerning reality from fantasy don't you? No where was it ever indicated that happened, but here you are saying it did.

Because during an extreme life threatening emergency, paramedics will pause to let secretaries pull up contact information from the office files...


As someone who works for a boarding school, I would have every medically useful bit of info in my hands before the paramedics arrived. And while I do have the primary responsibility while students are in our care, that in no way diminishes HIPAA which would preclude me from disseminating medical information to anyone other than the student, family, and medical persons.

What the head of school did was completely beyond the bounds of what would be acceptable in the US. But this was in the UK and while I find it to have been a terrible decision, I dont know if there are laws or regulations to which anyone was bound.
 
2013-05-10 03:11:37 AM  

INeedAName: As someone who works for a boarding school, I would have every medically useful bit of info in my hands before the paramedics arrived. And while I do have the primary responsibility while students are in our care, that in no way diminishes HIPAA which would preclude me from disseminating medical information to anyone other than the student, family, and medical persons.

What the head of school did was completely beyond the bounds of what would be acceptable in the US. But this was in the UK and while I find it to have been a terrible decision, I dont know if there are laws or regulations to which anyone was bound.


That's nice. We were discussing the hospital giving info to the school. Not the school giving info to the public.

Also, the fact you can get you students medical records before the paramedics arrive is commendable. I hope all schools are as efficient as yours.
 
2013-05-10 03:11:43 AM  

HotWingAgenda: impaler: Bender The Offender: 30k a year for tuition and the school couldn't be troubled to work in "look both ways before crossing the road" into their curriculum? I'd be pretty litigious if I were paying that kind of money and I hadn't taught my kids the basic rules of crossing the road before preschool.

PsychoLaurie: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

This.


Is "this" slang for "derp"?

Because they found out about the school first (people don't have their parent's info tattooed on their body) and the school should have had the "emergency contact" information.

I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient. Unless Mr. Whoeverthef*ck strolls in with a medical power of attorney or something.


The school is in loco parentis, ie has legal responsibility for the children in its care in situations like this. In the absence of the parents the hospital would have nobody to contact.

Who do you think authorised treatment?
 
2013-05-10 03:13:27 AM  

TheOtherMisterP: I don't care if this is "the information age". There are certain protocols, etiquettes, professional behaviors.. whatever you want to call it... that the school majorly screwed up with. If one of the kid's friends was there and tweeted about it or put it on Facebook, fine. But for the school to make a official public announcement without having even spoken to the parents is beyond irresponsible.

Not saying the school should have to do any kind of settlement, but people have been rightly fired for less.


One of those protocols, points of etiquette, or professional behaviors involves the judicious use of the phrase "The name of the victim is being withheld pending the notification of family."
 
2013-05-10 03:13:40 AM  

Alonjar: ElizaDoolittle: Pert: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

Because he was at boarding school and the school has legal responsibility for him and the hospitalonly have the school's contact details and it should be for the school to notify the parents?

He was at day school.  I don't know how this changes anything.

He was at a boarding school.. the exact opposite of a day school.

/Did I just get trolled or is this guy really that thick?


Making an ignorant or willfully ignorant post is hardly trolling. You're in the clear.

www.imageleech.net

/link is hot
 
2013-05-10 03:17:37 AM  

impaler: INeedAName: As someone who works for a boarding school, I would have every medically useful bit of info in my hands before the paramedics arrived. And while I do have the primary responsibility while students are in our care, that in no way diminishes HIPAA which would preclude me from disseminating medical information to anyone other than the student, family, and medical persons.

What the head of school did was completely beyond the bounds of what would be acceptable in the US. But this was in the UK and while I find it to have been a terrible decision, I dont know if there are laws or regulations to which anyone was bound.

That's nice. We were discussing the hospital giving info to the school. Not the school giving info to the public.

Also, the fact you can get you students medical records before the paramedics arrive is commendable. I hope all schools are as efficient as yours.




A poster said the mother already knew the son was dead. So the hospital or someone informed the mother. Assume the school found out formally, or informally, my issue is that the school had no right to release the info without family permission.
 
2013-05-10 03:18:27 AM  

INeedAName: A poster said the mother already knew the son was dead. So the hospital or someone informed the mother. Assume the school found out formally, or informally, my issue is that the school had no right to release the info without family permission.


No argument there.
 
2013-05-10 03:18:44 AM  
Dear Penthouse Forum:

I always thought these stories were made up, but this really happened to berylman: DId I ever tell you all about the time I was locked in a sauna for 72 hours with a Portugese man-o-war, Jimmy Carer, and Wilfred Brimley? Well then...
 
2013-05-10 03:19:00 AM  
Last summer, I noticed that many people were posting old pics of themselves and a friend of mine on his fb page.  I was going to make some snarky but friendly jests at some of the dorky pics when hours later one of the posts gave 2 dates like that on a gravesite.  At first I thought "did he just get engaged or something hahaha?" not realizing that he had died of a massive heart attack two days previously.  He was in his early 40's.  Didn't help that he was close to 400 lbs.
 
2013-05-10 03:22:36 AM  

Bender The Offender: 30k a year for tuition and the school couldn't be troubled to work in "look both ways before crossing the road" into their curriculum? I'd be pretty litigious if I were paying that kind of money and I hadn't taught my kids the basic rules of crossing the road before preschool.


At least he was hit by a Range Rover and not a Fiat.
 
2013-05-10 03:26:15 AM  
Unless the parents can get a change of venue to some place a little more plaintiff friendly like California or Michigan I don't really see this suit going anywhere. The only difference between finding out from the headmaster vs.their friends would have been if they'd experienced some problem on the way there because he didn't call and say, "Slow down because the kid will still be dead when you get here."
 
2013-05-10 03:33:19 AM  

ElizaDoolittle: This is much ado about lawsuits, however much the parents claim they aren't seeking to profit from the death of their son.


If they don't want to profit, tell them to drop the suit.

In fact, it should be law that if you say "I don't want to profit" you cannot be awarded more than a written apology on a torn off piece of legal pad paper.
 
2013-05-10 03:41:41 AM  

manwithplanx: Welcome to the Information Age. If it wasn't the school then it would've been someone on Twitter or Facebook.


In 1938 my grandfather was asked by a reporter over the telephone for his reaction to his son's death while training for the Army Air Corps.
It was the first he knew about it.
 
2013-05-10 03:52:43 AM  
Well, at least they didn't raped him.
 
2013-05-10 03:53:49 AM  
INeedAName:
As someone who works for a boarding school, I would have every medically useful bit of info in my hands before the paramedics arrived. And while I do have the primary responsibility while students are in our care, that in no way diminishes HIPAA which would preclude me from disseminating medical information to anyone other than the student, family, and medical persons.

What the head of school did was completely beyond the bounds of what would be acceptable in the US. But this was in the UK and while I find it to have been a terrible decision, I dont know if there are laws or regulations to which anyone was bound.


I'm not actually sure the school would be considered a "covered entity" under the privacy requirements of HIPAA, and even the school played it safe and did consider itself a covered entity, nothing prevents anyone else who witnessed a death from disclosing it publicly.  However, any school in the U.S. that posted an announcement about the death like that without the family's permission would probably get sued for emotional harm and probably privacy violation under the laws that apply to students - I don't think FERPA applies to medical info, but some other law probably does.
   I'm also curious to know what laws the UK has regarding this sort of situation.  In any case, they should have at least waited for the parents to give the ok to releae the info out of sympathy if nothing else.
 
2013-05-10 04:14:14 AM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: AMC Presents: The Awkward Dead.


The parents thought he was in the house.
 
2013-05-10 04:15:40 AM  

OscarTamerz: Unless the parents can get a change of venue to some place a little more plaintiff friendly like California or Michigan I don't really see this suit going anywhere. The only difference between finding out from the headmaster vs.their friends would have been if they'd experienced some problem on the way there because he didn't call and say, "Slow down because the kid will still be dead when you get here."


can't get much deader than dead, much like you can't overdry. you can't over-die, can't over-die.
 
2013-05-10 04:18:17 AM  

maggibond: OscarTamerz: Unless the parents can get a change of venue to some place a little more plaintiff friendly like California or Michigan I don't really see this suit going anywhere. The only difference between finding out from the headmaster vs.their friends would have been if they'd experienced some problem on the way there because he didn't call and say, "Slow down because the kid will still be dead when you get here."

can't get much deader than dead, much like you can't overdry. you can't over-die, can't over-die.


can't get much deader than dead, much like you can't overdry. you can't over-dry, can't over-die.
 
2013-05-10 04:24:14 AM  
Better than waiting until the graduation ceremony and finding out when instead of calling to walk across the stage they have a moment of silence for him.
 
2013-05-10 05:37:37 AM  
The school did nothing wrong as schools are above the law. If you don't believe me, just ask them.

/This will go on your permanent record
 
2013-05-10 05:39:34 AM  

Alonjar: He was at a boarding school.. the exact opposite of a day school.

/Did I just get trolled or is this guy really that thick?


He was a day pupil at a school that also has boarders which is completely standard for private schools.

Gyrfalcon: Bear in mind that at a BOARDING SCHOOL, the kids are family too, and likely as traumatized as the parents, especially when one of their number gets run over by a car.


Well, he was a day pupil, but that isn't really relevant.  If you're seriously saying that the other students were as traumatised as the parents then, I'm sorry to say, you're utterly incorrect.  The levels of grief are not comparable.  That's not to say his friends weren't upset, but it in no way compares to how the parents felt and still feel.  Out of interest, are you a parent?
 
2013-05-10 05:47:08 AM  

HotWingAgenda: impaler: HotWingAgenda: I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient.

What if that "whoever" is the loco parentis?

That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.  He wasn't a goddamn orphan.


Even if the school gave the paramedics that info (which they may not have) the school is still responsible until the parents arrive and take over.
 
2013-05-10 05:59:49 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: HIPPA of course does not exist in England, so while such a disclosure would be illegal in the US, it may not be there.  Without knowing how long the drive was for the parents I'm hard pressed to decide if it was "too soon" for the school to put up such a notice.  The time between when the parents were first notified to when the school posted the notice may have been hours.  Plus, if the school was already being contacted by the parents of other students (which may well have been the case) then I can see the desire to get out in front of the situation.


Even if it was in the US, the school is not a covered entity, and therefore not bound to follow HIPAA anyways.
 
2013-05-10 06:09:42 AM  

impaler: ElizaDoolittle: He was at day school. I don't know how this changes anything.

loco parentis


Alonjar: ElizaDoolittle: Pert: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

Because he was at boarding school and the school has legal responsibility for him and the hospitalonly have the school's contact details and it should be for the school to notify the parents?

He was at day school.  I don't know how this changes anything.

He was at a boarding school.. the exact opposite of a day school.

/Did I just get trolled or is this guy really that thick?



FTFA in the Express:   http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/398316/Devastated-father-learns-of-s o n-s-death-after-elite-boarding-school-posts-news-on-web

William was a day boy at Worth School .... 

Lots of public schools (meaning, private schools) in England allow day students. The term means non-boarding students.

themoreyouknow.jpg
 
2013-05-10 06:15:49 AM  
"You do not expect your child to go to school, but not come home. That is why we feel the school have to take some responsibility ... We trusted them to look after William."

ProTip: Look after your own...
 
2013-05-10 06:49:28 AM  
Is the kid dead? If so what are they going to sue for? They were telling the truth.
 
2013-05-10 07:09:51 AM  
FTFA: The notice was signed by the school's headmaster, Gino Carminati, who expressed his great disdain in making the tragic announcement.

Huh?
 
2013-05-10 07:30:48 AM  

HotWingAgenda: impaler: Bender The Offender: 30k a year for tuition and the school couldn't be troubled to work in "look both ways before crossing the road" into their curriculum? I'd be pretty litigious if I were paying that kind of money and I hadn't taught my kids the basic rules of crossing the road before preschool.

PsychoLaurie: HotWingAgenda: Why would the hospital notify the school of the death before his next of kin?  That strikes me as a bizarre violation of privacy, unless he actually died on the spot in front of everybody before the medics could scrape him off the pavement.

This.


Is "this" slang for "derp"?

Because they found out about the school first (people don't have their parent's info tattooed on their body) and the school should have had the "emergency contact" information.

I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient. Unless Mr. Whoeverthef*ck strolls in with a medical power of attorney or something.


Boarding schools get a medical consent signed by the parents it would be criminally negligent not to.
 
2013-05-10 07:35:13 AM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: INeedAName:
As someone who works for a boarding school, I would have every medically useful bit of info in my hands before the paramedics arrived. And while I do have the primary responsibility while students are in our care, that in no way diminishes HIPAA which would preclude me from disseminating medical information to anyone other than the student, family, and medical persons.

What the head of school did was completely beyond the bounds of what would be acceptable in the US. But this was in the UK and while I find it to have been a terrible decision, I dont know if there are laws or regulations to which anyone was bound.

I'm not actually sure the school would be considered a "covered entity" under the privacy requirements of HIPAA, and even the school played it safe and did consider itself a covered entity, nothing prevents anyone else who witnessed a death from disclosing it publicly.  However, any school in the U.S. that posted an announcement about the death like that without the family's permission would probably get sued for emotional harm and probably privacy violation under the laws that apply to students - I don't think FERPA applies to medical info, but some other law probably does.
   I'm also curious to know what laws the UK has regarding this sort of situation.  In any case, they should have at least waited for the parents to give the ok to releae the info out of sympathy if nothing else.


FERPA covers pretty much all student info
 
2013-05-10 07:39:52 AM  

fusillade762: RELIGION

religion/christianity/catholicism

Wat?


The website is a leftist outlet. Thus, they will use the flimsiest of excuses to put any bad behavior under the "religion" category. It's what leftists do. A government-run school administrator could have been just a stupid--or are we supposed to believe that religious school administrators are so very much better most of the time that this stupid mistake is noteworthy?
 
2013-05-10 07:42:08 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: The notice was signed by the school's headmaster, Gino Carminati, who expressed his great disdain in making the tragic announcement.

Huh?


He does not like making those sort of announcements, who would.
 
2013-05-10 07:52:45 AM  
There is definitely one person in this story that doesn't care how his parents got notified.
 
2013-05-10 08:03:00 AM  

TomD9938: FTA : On their way, the Wrights began to experience an onslaught of phone calls gushing with unexpected condolences.

I know that when an acquaintance of mine suddenly has a dead kid, I too, like to jump into their tragedy as quickly as possible.


Total narcissism. The defining attribute of social media.
 
JW
2013-05-10 08:05:32 AM  

thaylin: Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: The notice was signed by the school's headmaster, Gino Carminati, who expressed his great disdain in making the tragic announcement.

Huh?

He does not like making those sort of announcements, who would.


Words have meaning:

disdain:The feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.
 
2013-05-10 08:13:33 AM  

JW: thaylin: Barricaded Gunman: FTFA: The notice was signed by the school's headmaster, Gino Carminati, who expressed his great disdain in making the tragic announcement.

Huh?

He does not like making those sort of announcements, who would.

Words have meaning:

disdain:The feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.


Not really sure what you are trying to prove, but I think we all know what disdain means.
 
2013-05-10 08:20:58 AM  

doglover: I don't think that's such a problem. They were already aware their son was in the hospital greviously hurt and they were en route. It's not like the school didn't contact them ASAP. And quite frankly, if you send your kids to boarding school, they're out of your family for the time and part of that organization. That organization has an obligation to its members when something happens to one.

Tragedy, but compared to the Syria situation and stuff like that it's a non-issue.


Decent troll bait.  I'd be pretty sad, though, if someone actually agreed with you.

*checks*

Well, screw this Earth.
 
2013-05-10 08:36:16 AM  

HotWingAgenda: impaler: HotWingAgenda: I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient.

What if that "whoever" is the loco parentis?

That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.  He wasn't a goddamn orphan.


This. What if he was an adult and loco parentis did not even come into play? You still notify the next of kin before releasing the information publicly. Anyone here who thinks the school is not at fault has clearly never been in the parents' situation. It doesn't matter if everyone in the school saw the kid hit by the car, they don't know for sure that he is dead until the hospital releases the information. And even if they did, they wouldn't reach out to the family to offer condolences if they didn't think the family already knew, which they probably assumed was the case because the dumbass principal released the information publicly.
 
2013-05-10 08:41:58 AM  
Speaking as someone who knows(in my case, my dad), this is the kind of thing that's going to be terrible no matter how you hear it.

Yes, it would have been better to find out quietly in person, and the school should apologize for that. But in no way should this be a lawsuit.

As for the  "We trusted them to look after him", he was hit crossing the street....freak accident, could have happened anywhere...the school isn't going top handhold all the kids across the street...
 
2013-05-10 08:42:45 AM  

jpschwan: manwithplanx: Welcome to the Information Age. If it wasn't the school then it would've been someone on Twitter or Facebook.

As someone who found out through Facebook posts that their grandfather had passed away, I must concur.

Nothing like randomly surfing on Facebook only to start seeing all your cousins start posting "RIP Grandpa" all over the place.

/give it a few damn hours, geez...

Or you could NOT BE ON Facebook

 
2013-05-10 08:46:02 AM  

pseudoscience: HotWingAgenda: impaler: HotWingAgenda: I know nothing about English medical privacy, but in the US, doctors can't go around pronouncing medical diagnosis to whoever the f*ck calls to ask about a minor patient.

What if that "whoever" is the loco parentis?

That ended when the ambulance picked him up from the school and the school gave the paramedics his family's contact info.  He wasn't a goddamn orphan.

This. What if he was an adult and loco parentis did not even come into play? You still notify the next of kin before releasing the information publicly. Anyone here who thinks the school is not at fault has clearly never been in the parents' situation. It doesn't matter if everyone in the school saw the kid hit by the car, they don't know for sure that he is dead until the hospital releases the information. And even if they did, they wouldn't reach out to the family to offer condolences if they didn't think the family already knew, which they probably assumed was the case because the dumbass principal released the information publicly.


You did read where the mother already knew right?
 
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