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(Opposing Views)   Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse was forced to explain to his colleagues why God can't stop climate change. Next on his agenda: breaking the news about Santa Claus   (opposingviews.com) divider line 190
    More: Amusing, Sheldon Whitehouse, god, climate change, political agenda, hot stove  
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12813 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 May 2013 at 2:06 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 01:25:32 PM
Re: God and climate change

Bill McKibben's recent sermon at the Riverside Church is remarkable. Not overly science-y, not overly jesus-y, just the right blend of both, with a firm 'we cannot f*ck around on this anymore' message. Highly recommended.
 
2013-05-09 01:28:31 PM
So, that's the level of our discussion.  Great.
 
2013-05-09 01:29:33 PM
Bit of advice, courtesy of the first f*cking day in Freshman Reporting 101: don't make the reader go to Google to find out what state the senator comes from, or what party he's with.
 
2013-05-09 01:30:31 PM
Or more accurately, Senator Whitehouse tells his colleagues that they are being too silly about God and explains that the Bible tells us just how much silliness we should exhibit and the right amount we should depend on the imaginary cloud being.
 
2013-05-09 01:41:28 PM
God won't allow us to ruin our planet

Tell that to Sodom, Gommorah, and everyone not descended from Noah.
Maybe He won't let us ruin the planet, but there's nothing stopping Him.
 
2013-05-09 01:42:58 PM
The link to the original story on Raw Story and the corresponding C-Span footage:  http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/08/sen-whitehouse-destroys-colleag u e-who-said-god-wont-allow-climate-change/

But by all means, keep linking to a site of halfwit plagiarists who sprinkle trite, cliched "opinions" around words written by other people in order to generate their "content" of "opposing views."
 
2013-05-09 01:43:32 PM
i cannot believe that we're having this conversation in 2013.
 
2013-05-09 01:45:24 PM

FlashHarry: i cannot believe that we're having this conversation in 2013.


I'm taking it on faith.
 
2013-05-09 01:57:19 PM
There's an old proverb that used to be popular in Yankee territory: "Pray devoutly, but hammer stoutly".
 
2013-05-09 02:01:48 PM
FTFA: We are warned in the Bible not to plow iniquity, not to eat the fruit of lies," Whitehouse said. "Where in the Bible are we assured of safety if we do? I see no assurances of that." Whitehouse continued: "So why then, when we ignore his plain, natural laws, when we ignore the obvious conclusions to be drawn by our God-given intellect and reason, why then would God, the tidy-up God, drop in and spare us? Why would he allow an innocent child to burn its hand when it touches the hot stove but protect us from this lesson? Why would he allow a badly engineered bridge or building to fall, killing innocent people, but protect us from this mistake?"

i.imgur.com

That is precisely how you bring it. For the sake of the conversation and overarching goal you take them to task using their own assumptions and ideology, rather than simply dismissing their worldview outright. For you can dismiss them and their constituents for your own psychological satisfaction, but that does not change one iota of their actual real power to disagree with you or act to obstruct you. That is reality. It doesn't matter whether you agree with their assumptions--you have to be able to argue from theirs, and that requires you to study and actually understand and successfully articulate their views from their own point of view rather than a strawman.
 
2013-05-09 02:03:00 PM
The same God that allows genocide, war, poverty, famine, plagues, murders, rapes and so on?

That god?
 
2013-05-09 02:03:12 PM
"We are warned in the Bible not to plow iniquity, not to eat the fruit of lies," Whitehouse said. "Where in the Bible are we assured of safety if we do? I see no assurances of that."

Whitehouse continued: "So why then, when we ignore his plain, natural laws, when we ignore the obvious conclusions to be drawn by our God-given intellect and reason, why then would God, the tidy-up God, drop in and spare us? Why would he allow an innocent child to burn its hand when it touches the hot stove but protect us from this lesson? Why would he allow a badly engineered bridge or building to fall, killing innocent people, but protect us from this mistake?"


Its like a parent explaining to a 6 year old how Santa can get around the world in one night. We are trying to explain to people with the mentality of children how supernatural fairy tales effect natural phenomena.

These are people at our highest level of government, responsible for shaping the policy of the greatest nation on earth. But you can't simply say, "There is no God. And even if there is, he clearly doesn't have any intention to keep us from our own worst impulses. So shut up, you infant."

Because it might offend him, or worse, shatter his child-like, fairy tale view of how the world works. No, that would be insensitive. So you have to explain it to him like he's a little kid.
 
2013-05-09 02:05:40 PM

Somacandra: That is precisely how you bring it. For the sake of the conversation and overarching goal you take them to task using their own assumptions and ideology, rather than simply dismissing their worldview outright. For you can dismiss them and their constituents for your own psychological satisfaction, but that does not change one iota of their actual real power to disagree with you or act to obstruct you. That is reality. It doesn't matter whether you agree with their assumptions--you have to be able to argue from theirs, and that requires you to study and actually understand and successfully articulate their views from their own point of view rather than a strawman.


FWIW, despite what I just posted, I completely agree with you. Actually its consistent with what I just posted, in that I don't see the point in arguing with reality.

But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
2013-05-09 02:05:59 PM

Karac: God won't allow us to ruin our planet

Tell that to Sodom, Gommorah, and everyone not descended from Noah.
Maybe He won't let us ruin the planet, but there's nothing stopping Him.



Except His own word, which is quoted directly by sitting US Senators as the motive for their policies:

21The  Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

22"As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."

People elected to office who use mythological texts as a basis for public policy should be jailed. Yes, there should be a religious/sanity test for office.
 
2013-05-09 02:11:28 PM
FTFA: "I was recently at a Senate hearing where I heard a member of our Senate community say, 'God won't allow us to ruin our planet,'"  Whitehouse did not identify who he was talking about.

But not a single soul questions what party he is a member of.  Farking Tea Tards
 
2013-05-09 02:11:55 PM
I hope the Senator dropped the mic after this
 
2013-05-09 02:14:49 PM
"Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" sounds like an extraordinarily made up name.
 
2013-05-09 02:15:43 PM
Never heard of him, but he's obviously a Democrat.
 
2013-05-09 02:15:57 PM

Speaker2Animals: Bit of advice, courtesy of the first f*cking day in Freshman Reporting 101: don't make the reader go to Google to find out what state the senator comes from, or what party he's with.


You really have to ask?
 
2013-05-09 02:16:55 PM

Speaker2Animals: Bit of advice, courtesy of the first f*cking day in Freshman Reporting 101: don't make the reader go to Google to find out what state the senator comes from, or what party he's with.


I think it's a good thing.  This way, certain people have to read it and do a little research before deciding to dismiss it entirely and express outrage at his comments.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:03 PM
God said he wouldn't, not that we couldn't.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:11 PM

Aarontology: The same God that allows genocide, war, poverty, famine, plagues, murders, rapes and so on?

That god?


It's that "free will" again.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:26 PM
What are you implying, Jerkmitter? Santa could totally stop climate change if he wasn't so busy making toys.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:33 PM

Car_Ramrod: "Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" sounds like an extraordinarily made up name.


imagine President Whitehouse
 
2013-05-09 02:17:38 PM

PreMortem: will I destroy all living creatures


People tend to forget God really only needs a breeding population of bacteria to survive to reset the planet to defaults.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:44 PM

Car_Ramrod: "Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" sounds like an extraordinarily made up name.


He is the reason the word "dweeb" was invented.  He's such a ridiculously awkward person it's not even funny.
 
2013-05-09 02:18:29 PM
i239.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-09 02:18:41 PM

Car_Ramrod: "Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" sounds like an extraordinarily made up name.


If he became president, would that be like dividing by zero?
 
2013-05-09 02:18:51 PM

Jackson Herring: Car_Ramrod: "Senator Sheldon Whitehouse" sounds like an extraordinarily made up name.

imagine President Whitehouse


Oooh can he marry Rose Garden on the West Lawn, and name his first son West Lawn and have him born in the Rose Garden?
 
2013-05-09 02:19:27 PM

FlashHarry: i cannot believe that we're having this conversation in 2013.


you mean why isnt all religion treated as a mental illness? delusion?
 
2013-05-09 02:19:30 PM
What do God , Global Warming and Santa Clause all have in common?

(besides being Al Gores 3 most favortie things)
 
2013-05-09 02:20:22 PM
Wall of green text in 3.... 2.....
 
2013-05-09 02:20:32 PM

Somacandra: FTFA: We are warned in the Bible not to plow iniquity, not to eat the fruit of lies," Whitehouse said. "Where in the Bible are we assured of safety if we do? I see no assurances of that." Whitehouse continued: "So why then, when we ignore his plain, natural laws, when we ignore the obvious conclusions to be drawn by our God-given intellect and reason, why then would God, the tidy-up God, drop in and spare us? Why would he allow an innocent child to burn its hand when it touches the hot stove but protect us from this lesson? Why would he allow a badly engineered bridge or building to fall, killing innocent people, but protect us from this mistake?"

[i.imgur.com image 400x400]

That is precisely how you bring it. For the sake of the conversation and overarching goal you take them to task using their own assumptions and ideology, rather than simply dismissing their worldview outright. For you can dismiss them and their constituents for your own psychological satisfaction, but that does not change one iota of their actual real power to disagree with you or act to obstruct you. That is reality. It doesn't matter whether you agree with their assumptions--you have to be able to argue from theirs, and that requires you to study and actually understand and successfully articulate their views from their own point of view rather than a strawman.


Except they (conservative Christians) don't really believe in the God/Jesus of the Bible, the believe in Ronald Reagan Republican Jesus.
 
2013-05-09 02:20:41 PM

Aarontology: The same God that allows genocide, war, poverty, famine, plagues, murders, rapes and so on?

That god?


He works in mysterious ways.  Except when His work is absolutely certain - like punishing us for gays with hurricanes.
 
2013-05-09 02:20:52 PM
You know, if my car broke down, I wouldn't ask a Santaria practicitioner to shake chicken blood all over it in order to fix it. Despite his strongly held beliefs.

If I had lung cancer, I'm pretty sure that an ophthalmologist or gynecologist's opinions would be exactly that. Opinions... of the Paul family.

Now, when people are actually able to vote on things, and influence what affects you and I, maybe their nutbag opinions might be worth noticing.
 
2013-05-09 02:21:04 PM

FlashHarry


i cannot believe that we're having this conversation in 2013.


I seem to recall reading somewhere that younger generations are not into the religion thing nearly as much as their parents and grandparents were/are. If that's true, the Bible-izing influence should be greatly diminished in 20-30 years.

That doesn't help us right now, of course, but it will be nice when it does happen.
 
2013-05-09 02:21:47 PM

DrKillPatient: [i239.photobucket.com image 340x343]


no
because god is not real
santa on the other hand can make toys that no one can lift!!
 
2013-05-09 02:22:25 PM

gilgigamesh: "We are warned in the Bible not to plow iniquity, not to eat the fruit of lies," Whitehouse said. "Where in the Bible are we assured of safety if we do? I see no assurances of that."

Whitehouse continued: "So why then, when we ignore his plain, natural laws, when we ignore the obvious conclusions to be drawn by our God-given intellect and reason, why then would God, the tidy-up God, drop in and spare us? Why would he allow an innocent child to burn its hand when it touches the hot stove but protect us from this lesson? Why would he allow a badly engineered bridge or building to fall, killing innocent people, but protect us from this mistake?"

Its like a parent explaining to a 6 year old how Santa can get around the world in one night. We are trying to explain to people with the mentality of children how supernatural fairy tales effect natural phenomena.

These are people at our highest level of government, responsible for shaping the policy of the greatest nation on earth. But you can't simply say, "There is no God. And even if there is, he clearly doesn't have any intention to keep us from our own worst impulses. So shut up, you infant."

Because it might offend him, or worse, shatter his child-like, fairy tale view of how the world works. No, that would be insensitive. So you have to explain it to him like he's a little kid.


The reality is none of them believe any of that bullshiat, it's all about cash.

This was a massive waste of the guy's breath.
 
2013-05-09 02:22:30 PM

Danger Mouse: What do God , Global Warming and Santa Clause all have in common?

(besides being Al Gores 3 most favortie things)


0/10
 
2013-05-09 02:22:53 PM
God won't allow us to ruin our planet

Right. This Earth he has greater is just lousy with redundant self regulation mechanisms. It is more than capable of bouncing back from *far* more serious damage than it would take to render us extinct and halt any further damage we might cause.

Planet will be just fine.
 
2013-05-09 02:23:02 PM

PreMortem: Except His own word, which is quoted directly by sitting US Senators as the motive for their policies:

21The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

22"As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."


All I get from that is that god won't curse the ground because of us, but we can go about cursing it ourselves. Catastrophic climate change likely also won't kill EVERY living creature - I hear roaches do pretty well even in intense temperature/radiation.

And global warming won't stop the rotation of the sun, or of the Earth. Day and night will continue for the next few million years. Summer and winter may have a different feel to them, and we may have to reset the relative terms "cold" and "heat" (after all, they're both just "temperature" as subjectively interpreted by people - lukewarm tea is "cold", but lukewarm beer is "gross warm").
 
2013-05-09 02:23:19 PM

Aarontology: The same God that allows genocide, war, poverty, famine, plagues, murders, rapes and so on?

That god?


That was the senator's point.  If God allows things like tornadoes to happen, we shouldn't expect God to protect us from our own actions.  He's arguing against the "God won't let nuthin' bad happen therefore we can ignore the climate" viewpoint, which I think a few people in this thread might have missed.  TFA is amusing and sad all at the same time.

/dunno who the senator is
 
2013-05-09 02:23:31 PM

Speaker2Animals: Bit of advice, courtesy of the first f*cking day in Freshman Reporting 101: don't make the reader go to Google to find out what state the senator comes from, or what party he's with.


Sounds like someone is upset at nearly forming an opinion about someone based on their words and actions, rather than their place of residence and political affiliation.
=Smidge=
 
2013-05-09 02:23:47 PM

Danger Mouse: What do God , Global Warming and Santa Clause all have in common?

(besides being Al Gores 3 most favortie things)


Your mom?
 
2013-05-09 02:24:09 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-09 02:24:21 PM
They're our leaders. Oh fark.
 
2013-05-09 02:26:10 PM

Danger Mouse: What do God , Global Warming and Santa Clause all have in common?


Not too much. God and Santa have no evidence supporting them and AGW has mountains of evidence supporting it.

Where were you going with this?
 
2013-05-09 02:27:03 PM

over_and_done: Aarontology: The same God that allows genocide, war, poverty, famine, plagues, murders, rapes and so on?

That god?

That was the senator's point.  If God allows things like tornadoes to happen, we shouldn't expect God to protect us from our own actions.  He's arguing against the "God won't let nuthin' bad happen therefore we can ignore the climate" viewpoint, which I think a few people in this thread might have missed.  TFA is amusing and sad all at the same time.

/dunno who the senator is


Yup, we have a perfectly good planet. I am not expecting any deity to come in and protect us from ourselves. It's a specious argument.
 
2013-05-09 02:28:26 PM

Relatively Obscure: So, that's the level of our discussion.  Great.


Hey, if there is one thing I've learned over my lifetime, it's that religion can motivate people to do ANYTHING.  Things ranging from extremely good and extremely evil.

I'm getting to the point where I am not exactly going to balk at manipulating people into adapting to climate change through religion.  The physical reality of the problem might be enough to change humanity's behavior, but we've got a good chunk of our nation with their heads planted firmly in the sand.  I would worry about environmentalism becoming yet another religion though (We don't need a militant Gaia's Daughters running around).

Many have already been manipulated into not believing climate change through religion.  Maybe it's time some pastor's reverse the trend.
 
2013-05-09 02:28:38 PM

Danger Mouse: What do God , Global Warming and Santa Clause all have in common?


They're all terrible Tim Allen movies?


Just kidding, there's no such thing as a good Tim Allen movie.
=Smidge=
 
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