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(Some Girl)   Not News: Indie Author rewrites her first novel to fix plot holes and structure based on reviewers feedback. News: Instead of making you buy it again, she's offering it for free to people who have already purchased   (howmanyfrogs.com) divider line 94
    More: Hero, novels, abandonments, structures  
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3484 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 09 May 2013 at 1:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 11:58:48 AM
1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit
 
2013-05-09 12:39:25 PM
This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.
 
2013-05-09 12:40:41 PM

Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit


Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.
 
2013-05-09 01:37:27 PM

unlikely: This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.


I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are  serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

//Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm  definitely not a serious writer.
 
2013-05-09 01:39:34 PM

scottydoesntknow: Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.


Came to say this.
 
2013-05-09 01:41:04 PM

t3knomanser: unlikely: This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.

I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are  serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

//Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm  definitely not a serious writer.


The lure of self-pub is great though.  You get 70% of the proceeds from sales instead of the farking tiny amount the publisher offers.  It is a GREAT deal for authors who have already gone the publishing route with success.  They can now really begin to reap the rewards of their work.  For first timers though, it is hardly the road to riches they are envisioning.
 
2013-05-09 01:54:44 PM

t3knomanser: unlikely: This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.

I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are  serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

//Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm  definitely not a serious writer.


I assume that shopping your book to publishers has the same degree of overlap with writing.
 
2013-05-09 01:55:38 PM
Um isn't this what Bioware did with Mass Effect 3?  Like hell anybody is going to give EA the hero tag.
 
2013-05-09 01:56:37 PM

t3knomanser: //Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm definitely not a serious writer.


Cool!

What publisher?

Congratulations!
 
2013-05-09 01:57:36 PM

scottydoesntknow: Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.


Not just related to video games, any software really operates with this model. Good on her for adopting this approach I say.
 
2013-05-09 01:59:12 PM

t3knomanser: unlikely: This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.

I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are  serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

//Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm  definitely not a serious writer.


Speaking as both a self-published and a traditional published author, there's pros and cons for both which all boils down into how much work you want to do for yourself.

If you understand E-Book creation, have lots of friends for critiques and grammar, and are decent at marketing, self-publishing is the way to go since you get more of a cut from distributors. 

If you're lucky and don't mind writing tons of query letters to agents and publishers who couldn't care less about you, traditional publishing is the way to go. You have to play by their rules for things and you get less of a share for your own creation, but all that extra bullshiat is handled by them so it saves you a bit of headache.

Like I do in every fark book thread, here's a link to my latest novel:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AVRNTEQ
 
2013-05-09 02:07:43 PM

moothemagiccow: I assume that shopping your book to publishers has the same degree of overlap with writing.


That's why there are agents. The authors I know that actually make a living doing  love their agents.

unlikely: What publisher?


I um... actually don't recall. One of my co-authors is handling more of the business-side of it. It's not a technical book, but it's a publisher that usually handles technical subjects.

AdolfOliverPanties: For first timers though, it is hardly the road to riches they are envisioning.


Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

And damn, do so many self-published authors skimp on those other costs. I've seen so many books with covers that were obviously made by a friend in an hour.

What I'd like to see is a collective publishing company, where it's owned by the authors who participate.
 
2013-05-09 02:08:58 PM
This happens ALL THE TIME on Amazon.  I'm completely unsure why this is interesting...
 
2013-05-09 02:14:15 PM

t3knomanser: Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

And damn, do so many self-published authors skimp on those other costs. I've seen so many books with covers that were obviously made by a friend in an hour.

What I'd like to see is a collective publishing company, where it's owned by the authors who participate.


Hi!  Abandon author here, let me recap exactly how much I spent, and how much I gained from this novel:

I spent:

28 days writing it
4 hours of cover design myself
36 hours of figuring out how to convert to mobi and epub
$200 on a book tour by OrangeBerry Book Promotions

I was luckily and actually had another Farker edit it for me in exchange for one of her book designs, so I'll count that as another 3 hours of my time.

I have made, to date on this book roughly $20,000.

That being said, I already had a fairly established fan base since I've been blogging since I was 17.  But I really think it was the $200 investment in the book tour which was targeted to my "romance" fan base that really helped.

All and all, it's been a pretty interesting journey.   I'm actually thinking about taking the money from my second book and investing it in a publishing company to help self-published authors get off the ground.  :)
 
2013-05-09 02:15:33 PM
'Hero' tag?

Really?

Really really?
 
2013-05-09 02:19:04 PM
I have this book on papyrus
 
2013-05-09 02:22:06 PM
Must be nice. Mine is still just waiting for this sort of luck.
 
2013-05-09 02:28:39 PM

ZeroCorpse: Must be nice. Mine is still just waiting for this sort of luck.


http://www.orangeberrybooktours.com/

Seriously, make your own luck.  Pandora is really cool and she can take payment after commission too - so you can pay her out of the book earnings instead of up front.  I wouldn't have had the success I did without her.
 
2013-05-09 02:31:09 PM

t3knomanser: I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are  serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.


Replace publishing/publisher with editing/editor, and I'll agree with you.  The best books, whether traditionally or self-published, have a strong editor to make sure a story is strong. Successful authors frequently keep using the same editor, even when they move from publisher to publisher.

The publisher handles the nuts and bolts of getting the book to market, but the author/editor are responsible for how good the content is.
 
2013-05-09 02:35:14 PM

t3knomanser: Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.


You can still put out a good quality book.  My real work is in dramatic writing, but a friend made a nice chunk of change publishing a few romance novels, so I took a crack at it under an assumed name.  It was 1$ per thousand words for the editor my friend was hooked up through her publishing house (before she went the self-pub route) and she also introduced me to her cover artist (also met through her publisher).

I was charged $59 for the editing but paid $70 because I liked the work and want to be high on her to-do list if I write another book.  I was charged about $85 for the cover.  It would've been higher, but the designer provided a link to the image collection she works with and I found all the desired elements myself - she just had to pull the pieces together.  She did such a great job (in only a few days) I paid about $100.

I've also done two fiverr marketing campaigns, one with an add-on.

That's about $200 bucks total.  I've received from Amazon about $560 in royalties so far.  As this isn't my first or second main source of income and I enjoy the work, this is a nice payout for me.  I bought a new laptop with the net plus about $40 bucks which will probably come out of the next royalty payment.  I still haven't looked into Nook publishing.

Here's what I've learned:  Some genres sell themselves.  I think my nice cover, tight blurb, and low cost (3 bucks, because that's about what I figure it's worth as it was my first time in a new field) contributed to a TON of upfront sales.  When those dropped off I did a free promotional weekend and got to see myself second on the free book bestseller list in my genre, right behind Ocsar Wilde.  That was fun for me and the free days resulted in more reviews, which resulted in more sales, though still less than the original few weeks.

Per my friend's experience, if I write another book in this genre and publish under the same name (which I plan to, perhaps once a year if 'real writing' and work allows), I can look forward to a sales bump on the first book as well as a hopefully comparable experience with the second.

tl:dr:  If you want a lot of money, get a job.  If you want some extra money for sitting in your pjs at your computer and being creative, self-publishing isn't a bad way to go.
 
2013-05-09 02:35:51 PM

Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit


The EA guide to game releases.
 
2013-05-09 02:37:59 PM
Isn't that already an automatic feature with some ebook publishers, like Smashwords?
 
2013-05-09 02:41:19 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: Replace publishing/publisher with editing/editor, and I'll agree with you.


Editing is a completely different topic. Publishing is the act of getting the book out to market, and I just don't have the impression that self-published authors are serious about this (and I'm being a little more candid here on the topic than I normally would, because I have lots of friends who are self-published who believe that they're very serious, even though they're wrong). Now, you have some exceptions, like <b>skillbride</b>, who has made made $20k in 18 months or so, which isn't bad for a bottom-tier author at a traditional publishing house, and is pretty great for a self-published author. She also has shown a little more marketing effort by arranging an actual book tour, which doesn't hurt,  and isn't relying on ebook sales (although I'll guess that's been the biggest income driver).

But since we're discussing editors, there's another thing that drives me up the wall: too many writers, both amatuer and professional, believe that the story is their vision and that editors only dilute that vision. Books, like any other serious undertaking, are collaborative efforts. I  love editors who can really rip apart the moving parts of my stories and put them back together. I also love doing editing (although I'm sloppy with the technical aspects- I'm much better at ripping out the weak ideas and grafting in stronger ones).
 
2013-05-09 02:44:23 PM

K.B.O. Winston: I still haven't looked into Nook publishing.


I have a nook - so I've published mine on there - but I make WAY more on Amazon than I do on my nook so I was thinking about doing KDP select for the second novel.  (The theory being they will download it for free, and then buy the first one.)

What were your thoughts on it?  I got to number 5 on my genre without it so I didn't know if the lost royalties would be worth it.
 
2013-05-09 02:52:15 PM
My wife has published over 50 novels and is migrating away from the big publishers.
Her last book did quite well and we're thinking whether her brand is big enough to go solo.
 
2013-05-09 02:59:37 PM

skilbride: K.B.O. Winston: I still haven't looked into Nook publishing.

I have a nook - so I've published mine on there - but I make WAY more on Amazon than I do on my nook so I was thinking about doing KDP select for the second novel.  (The theory being they will download it for free, and then buy the first one.)

What were your thoughts on it?  I got to number 5 on my genre without it so I didn't know if the lost royalties would be worth it.


KDP select was good for me.  I wasn't planning on republishing again via another distributor for a bit, so it was no loss.  You mention free downloads, but remember Amazon does pay royalties for the 'borrowed' books.  They set it at a different amount per month, but it's usually about 2$ (it's supposed to be a slice of the Prime profits - like how musicians get paid for download-per-month sites such as emusic).

It may be a smaller royalty amount but you will get paid (unless you run a 'free for X days' promotion, which KDP allows for).
 
2013-05-09 03:01:01 PM
cdn5.mixrmedia.com
 
2013-05-09 03:02:49 PM

scottydoesntknow: All she did was issue a patch.


To give her a little credit, I'm sure the "fixes" she made weren't like "Ok, so Raul doesn't kill Giovanni with sword from a distance of 3 kilometers away" and other stupid sh*t you see in buggy video games.
 
2013-05-09 03:06:21 PM

Killer Cars: scottydoesntknow: All she did was issue a patch.

To give her a little credit, I'm sure the "fixes" she made weren't like "Ok, so Raul doesn't kill Giovanni with sword from a distance of 3 kilometers away" and other stupid sh*t you see in buggy video games.


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the "falls through the floor" bug is still there.
 
2013-05-09 03:10:50 PM
Not news: It still sucks
 
2013-05-09 03:13:45 PM

t3knomanser: moothemagiccow: I assume that shopping your book to publishers has the same degree of overlap with writing.

That's why there are agents. The authors I know that actually make a living doing  love their agents.

unlikely: What publisher?

I um... actually don't recall. One of my co-authors is handling more of the business-side of it. It's not a technical book, but it's a publisher that usually handles technical subjects.

AdolfOliverPanties: For first timers though, it is hardly the road to riches they are envisioning.

Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

And damn, do so many self-published authors skimp on those other costs. I've seen so many books with covers that were obviously made by a friend in an hour.

What I'd like to see is a collective publishing company, where it's owned by the authors who participate.


Let's just assume that amazon (or whatever vanity press) is advertising to these writers while agents, publishers, and editors are not.

The writers don't realize the work involved because amazon is showing its handful of success stories and the writers are assuming that this is the complete package. These are the first people who appear to give a fark about their work. They're also willing to list it in their megapopular store. It sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but then of course they get your $100 (or whatever) and nothing happens.
 
2013-05-09 03:14:04 PM

K.B.O. Winston: KDP select was good for me.  I wasn't planning on republishing again via another distributor for a bit, so it was no loss.  You mention free downloads, but remember Amazon does pay royalties for the 'borrowed' books.  They set it at a different amount per month, but it's usually about 2$ (it's supposed to be a slice of the Prime profits - like how musicians get paid for download-per-month sites such as emusic).

It may be a smaller royalty amount but you will get paid (unless you run a 'free for X days' promotion, which KDP allows for).


Interesting - yeah the free for x days was what I was looking for.  The one thing I hate about amazon is the pricing structure.  I can't put it on "sale" for a couple days without changing it like it was a new version which can get frustrating.  :(   So I was thinking about doing a gorilla campaign for launch day, making it free for that day so it topped the charts, then hoping it boosted the sales of the first one and people bought it after.
 
2013-05-09 03:19:14 PM
PS:  While I'm in here - I have a children's story complete that I need an illustrator for.  Does anyone want to do this and go halfsies with me?  You do the artwork, I'll do all the promotion and you get half the proceeds?
 
2013-05-09 03:26:21 PM

moothemagiccow: The writers don't realize the work involved because amazon is showing its handful of success stories and the writers are assuming that this is the complete package. These are the first people who appear to give a fark about their work. They're also willing to list it in their megapopular store. It sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but then of course they get your $100 (or whatever) and nothing happens.


How much money do you think it costs to self-publish on Amazon?

/hint: it's starts with 0
 
2013-05-09 03:38:03 PM

Dhusk: Isn't that already an automatic feature with some ebook publishers, like Smashwords?


Yes, all eBook publishers allow for revisions. It was only notable recently when the latest Nook program did not allow revisions
 
2013-05-09 03:41:54 PM
She writes that she took a "large hiatus." WTF? You mean a LONG hiatus? No wonder you had to rewrite your damn book. Hack.
 
2013-05-09 03:42:56 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: scottydoesntknow: Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.

Not just related to video games, any software really operates with this model. Good on her for adopting this approach I say.


Yes, good on her for not actually proofing her story. Good on developers of software releasing buggy messes to fix for later on because they need cash now.

It's a horrible approach that should be done away with. If you want me to test your game, then sell it cheaper since I'm now doing some of the work you should've been doing all along. If you want me to proofread your book for you, sell it for cheaper. When it's all done then release a full-price version. That way it rewards the people who helped and delivers a final product at full-price for everyone else.
 
2013-05-09 03:43:28 PM
SPOILER: The book still sucks.


/Have by no means read it, read plenty of bad books. There's no rehabbing a bad writer.
 
2013-05-09 03:46:32 PM
I took a glance at KDP for a youth-oriented science/experimenter book and I thought their download charges for the 70% route were a bit steep.  Since I haven't delved into making documents Kindle-ready, I don't have a feel for how big one might be that is filled with illustrations and other graphics.  Any hints out there?

I could just not be greedy and go for 35%, but I want the book to be affordable and still make enough change to pay for all the explosives science materials I've gone through.
 
2013-05-09 03:49:54 PM

scottydoesntknow: Crotchrocket Slim: scottydoesntknow: Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.

Not just related to video games, any software really operates with this model. Good on her for adopting this approach I say.

Yes, good on her for not actually proofing her story. Good on developers of software releasing buggy messes to fix for later on because they need cash now.

It's a horrible approach that should be done away with.


Tell that to the people who keep lining up to buy games on Day 1, then maybe game makers will listen.
 
2013-05-09 04:08:40 PM
VALIDATE ME PLEASE!
Look how I, the author, wrote this book, but it sucked, so I, the author, rewrote it and it still sucks, but ... VALIDATE ME!
 
2013-05-09 04:09:48 PM

K.B.O. Winston: moothemagiccow: The writers don't realize the work involved because amazon is showing its handful of success stories and the writers are assuming that this is the complete package. These are the first people who appear to give a fark about their work. They're also willing to list it in their megapopular store. It sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but then of course they get your $100 (or whatever) and nothing happens.

How much money do you think it costs to self-publish on Amazon?

/hint: it's starts with 0


Doesn't that cement the point? They want nothing but points and they advertise to writers. It certainly sounds better than the slog of finding an agent, editor and publisher. Too bad it's not.
 
2013-05-09 04:12:55 PM
So, should we have Paul McCartney go back and rewrite his songs too?  Lord knows there have been lots of critics, even of his good stuff from the 1970s.
 
2013-05-09 04:16:58 PM

moothemagiccow: K.B.O. Winston: moothemagiccow: The writers don't realize the work involved because amazon is showing its handful of success stories and the writers are assuming that this is the complete package. These are the first people who appear to give a fark about their work. They're also willing to list it in their megapopular store. It sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but then of course they get your $100 (or whatever) and nothing happens.

How much money do you think it costs to self-publish on Amazon?

/hint: it's starts with 0

Doesn't that cement the point? They want nothing but points and they advertise to writers. It certainly sounds better than the slog of finding an agent, editor and publisher. Too bad it's not.


I was referring to your comment "... then they get your $100 or whatever..."  You might be thinking of BookBaby or another such pay service.  On Amazon, you pay no money upfront for publishing.  They make money when you sell copies of your book, not before.

In some cases, yes, it is better than 'the slog of finding an agent, editor and publisher.'  For people looking not for a career but a way to make money off a hobby, it's roughly the same as selling on Etsy or Ebay.
 
2013-05-09 04:17:58 PM

skilbride: ZeroCorpse: Must be nice. Mine is still just waiting for this sort of luck.

http://www.orangeberrybooktours.com/

Seriously, make your own luck.  Pandora is really cool and she can take payment after commission too - so you can pay her out of the book earnings instead of up front.  I wouldn't have had the success I did without her.


Thanks. I really do appreciate the push in that direction!
 
2013-05-09 04:31:43 PM

RatOmeter: I took a glance at KDP for a youth-oriented science/experimenter book and I thought their download charges for the 70% route were a bit steep.  Since I haven't delved into making documents Kindle-ready, I don't have a feel for how big one might be that is filled with illustrations and other graphics.  Any hints out there?

I could just not be greedy and go for 35%, but I want the book to be affordable and still make enough change to pay for all the explosives science materials I've gone through.


Amazon just released a Kindle comic book creator... thingie.  I haven't looked at it, but I imagine it's image-file friendly.  You might want to check it out.
 
2013-05-09 04:50:09 PM
She shouldn't be a writer.
 
2013-05-09 05:10:17 PM
Hero? Really?

Too speechless to be snide.

So instead, here are my books:

www.jericlaing.com
 
2013-05-09 05:15:09 PM
Your blog sucks. I'm sure your book is of equal quality.
 
2013-05-09 05:18:59 PM
Harass your friends into proofreading for free like the rest of us.
 
2013-05-09 05:29:44 PM
Lot of whining here. I wasn't thrilled with the original Mass Effect 3 endings, for example, but BioWare fixing them and issuing a free patch turned out very well.
 
2013-05-09 05:35:31 PM

Wayne 985: Lot of whining here. I wasn't thrilled with the original Mass Effect 3 endings, for example, but BioWare fixing them and issuing a free patch turned out very well.


That's not really the same. As far as functionality is concerned, ME3 was a finished product. Sure the ending sucked, but everything worked right (I will always say I loved 99% of that game, even if the original ending was a letdown).

This is more akin to Aliens:CM or that WarZ ripoff that hit Steam a few months ago. Those were just trash games that were basically beta tests for their studios. And now they're paying the price for it.
 
2013-05-09 05:41:50 PM
I'm a book beta tester.
 
2013-05-09 05:41:57 PM

Ned Stark: Harass your friends into proofreading for free like the rest of us.


HA!  So true!  Actually, I did that.  What I changed about the story was a couple things regarding direction and fleshing one character out more so the sequel made sense.  Wasn't really proof reading type stuff because that was done by two Farkers actually :)

That's one of the reason I want to make sure that everyone get the updated version, even those on Nook - because the second one has an entire section dedicated to part of what I added in the first.
 
2013-05-09 05:51:44 PM
Is this where we pimp our own books since this is a non-story?  http://www.amazon.com/Bedtime-Stories-Insomniac-ebook/dp/B00B0S46LA
 
2013-05-09 05:59:05 PM
Owning a keyboard and being able to mash the keys does not make you an author.
 
2013-05-09 06:04:14 PM
Book pimpin':


Murder, sex, magic, and ancient Rome.

A serial killer preys upon those who are truly the most dangerous game...the gladiators. As the killer collects macabre trophies, it falls to the Prefect of the Night Watch to end the madness.

But this is Rome, where blood spills like wine, and dreams...they are all too often nightmares.
 THE NIGHT WATCH
http://www.amazon.com/The-Night-Watch-ebook/dp/B008I4J1RI/ref=sr_1_5 ?s =books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341670114&sr=1-5
 
2013-05-09 06:09:42 PM
Hero!  This is the greatest generation.
 
2013-05-09 06:24:26 PM

Rubber Biscuit: Hero!  This is the greatest generation.


I'm beginning to think that tag is for a sandwich....
 
2013-05-09 06:33:56 PM

Ernie the Fork: I'm beginning to think that tag is for a sandwich....


art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-05-09 07:05:55 PM

skilbride: Ernie the Fork: I'm beginning to think that tag is for a sandwich....

[art.penny-arcade.com image 850x425]


Oh...you're good. Very good.
 
2013-05-09 07:09:46 PM
Book Pimpin' II: Indie Bookaloo

SEEP


Inexplicable psychosis consumes a small town of isolationists, carving out a body-littered, blood-splattered journey into madness. Seep, a gruesome reminder of the fatal nature of life.

Spring, 1927. Without warning, without reason, insanity descends like a cloud of locusts upon a small town in the American Southwest. Neighbor turns on neighbor and family members on one another. The few who are not afflicted battle for their lives as the stain of madness spreads unchecked. Soon, bodies litter the dusty streets and the small town burns. Salvation, it would seem, is only for the dead.

Inspired by the true events that struck the village of Pont-Saint-Esprit, France, over the summer of 1951, when a bizarre and fast-spreading madness suddenly affected hundreds, concluding in seven deaths and leaving fifty more interned to asylums.

http://www.amazon.com/Seep-ebook/dp/B007TM7TX8/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 ?ie= UTF8&qid=1334346778&sr=8-8
 
2013-05-09 07:14:04 PM

t3knomanser: I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are serious about either writing or publishing.


I've authored or coauthored five books, four of them published by traditional publishing houses. The fifth - the fourth, actually, if you take them in order - I self-published.

Why? Because for that particular book, it made more sense to do it on my own. Relatively small but loyal niche audience and the ability to reach that audience more effectively than a distant publisher, plus more $ for me per copy sold = no-brainer as far as I was concerned.

Rest assured, I was as serious about that one as I was about the other four.
 
2013-05-09 07:22:18 PM

shoegaze99: t3knomanser: I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are serious about either writing or publishing.

I've authored or coauthored five books, four of them published by traditional publishing houses. The fifth - the fourth, actually, if you take them in order - I self-published.

Why? Because for that particular book, it made more sense to do it on my own. Relatively small but loyal niche audience and the ability to reach that audience more effectively than a distant publisher, plus more $ for me per copy sold = no-brainer as far as I was concerned.

Rest assured, I was as serious about that one as I was about the other four.


Post a link?
 
2013-05-09 07:43:01 PM
Here's an idea.  Maybe understand a little about plot and structure before you start writing fiction.  You don't instantly become a surgeon just because you're holding a scalpel.  Being a novelist requires a basic knowledge of the craft.  And if you want to be putting out more than circle-jerk fan fic, have some talent to go along with that desire.
 
2013-05-09 07:47:33 PM
K.B.O. Winston: tl:dr: If you want a lot of money, get a job. If you want some extra money for sitting in your pjs at your computer and being creative, self-publishing isn't a bad way to go.

QFT.

My stuff:  http://www.amazon.com/Fred-Anderson/e/B004WXKURE/
 
2013-05-09 08:05:19 PM

Otto_E_Rodika: Here's an idea.  Maybe understand a little about plot and structure before you start writing fiction.  You don't instantly become a surgeon just because you're holding a scalpel.  Being a novelist requires a basic knowledge of the craft.  And if you want to be putting out more than circle-jerk fan fic, have some talent to go along with that desire.


Agreed.

One of my novels, Cicada, was named "New and notable" by Kirkus Reviews and later made their "Best Indies of 2012."

Not to brag. Just trying to say that I'm not just throwing words on a page between bong hits. I spent years studying and reading and writing to get my work to a point that I thought it worthy of putting a price tag on it.
 
2013-05-09 08:10:12 PM
Indie Author?  Never heard of her.  Kind of a cool name for a writer though...
 
2013-05-09 08:13:03 PM

Fredster: K.B.O. Winston: tl:dr: If you want a lot of money, get a job. If you want some extra money for sitting in your pjs at your computer and being creative, self-publishing isn't a bad way to go.

QFT.

My stuff:  http://www.amazon.com/Fred-Anderson/e/B004WXKURE/


I just tried to buy No Limit for my kindle and was told I bought it in November!

So many books...so little time.

But I'll get to it. Promise.

By the way, on Amazon's description page for the audio book, there are some weird typos around "Daddy" you may want to have them correct. Looks like a formatting thing as the description looks fine on the Kindle page.
 
2013-05-09 08:13:25 PM

Ernie the Fork: I spent years studying and reading and writing to get my work to a point that I thought it worthy of putting a price tag on it.


I get paid for short semi-fiction (fictionalizations of factual events), but honestly, it's not because I have any love of the craft. It's because goddammit words are in my brain and need to escape. I thank the gods that I have a short attention span, lest I accidentally write an novel. I dread that day, to be honest. I don't even know what I would do with such a thing. I am a callous creator, so I would likely release it into the world without any preparation, where it would starve and fail to thrive.

In all seriousness, I'm not too shabby at writing, but I hate doing it.
 
2013-05-09 08:17:25 PM
Thanks for letting me know, Ernie the Fork (and I hope you enjoy the book!)
 
2013-05-09 08:32:08 PM

t3knomanser: Ernie the Fork: I spent years studying and reading and writing to get my work to a point that I thought it worthy of putting a price tag on it.

I get paid for short semi-fiction (fictionalizations of factual events), but honestly, it's not because I have any love of the craft. It's because goddammit words are in my brain and need to escape. I thank the gods that I have a short attention span, lest I accidentally write an novel. I dread that day, to be honest. I don't even know what I would do with such a thing. I am a callous creator, so I would likely release it into the world without any preparation, where it would starve and fail to thrive.

In all seriousness, I'm not too shabby at writing, but I hate doing it.


Somehow, I'm not buying that for a moment. You just don't enjoy ass hours in the chair, I'd guess...and who really does. I bet you do enjoy the creation and satisfaction of getting it right, though, don't you?

And since you get paid to do it, you've probably started seeing it as a chore. Especially so because you have requirements and guidelines...nooses of creativity.

Someday, if you go on to do something completely removed from writing, you may find you can't get enough time at the keys and monitor...or pen and legal pad...and then we'll see what happens!
 
2013-05-09 08:44:11 PM

t3knomanser: Ernie the Fork: I spent years studying and reading and writing to get my work to a point that I thought it worthy of putting a price tag on it.

I get paid for short semi-fiction (fictionalizations of factual events), but honestly, it's not because I have any love of the craft. It's because goddammit words are in my brain and need to escape. I thank the gods that I have a short attention span, lest I accidentally write an novel. I dread that day, to be honest. I don't even know what I would do with such a thing. I am a callous creator, so I would likely release it into the world without any preparation, where it would starve and fail to thrive.

In all seriousness, I'm not too shabby at writing, but I hate doing it.


Someday you might have a novel in your head and it will need to escape, and you've already set your sales calibrations accordingly if you do self publish.  Even if you're not shabby at writing, the whole editing and promotion aspects are a biatch.
 
2013-05-09 08:51:26 PM

Ernie the Fork: You just don't enjoy ass hours in the chair, I'd guess...and who really does


Oh, no, I like that part. I'm a programmer. That's basically my life.

Ernie the Fork: I bet you do enjoy the creation and satisfaction of getting it right, though, don't you?


That's the part I like the least. But I'm compelled, by brainmeats I don't understand. I like my short semi-fiction, because I can make words and really just hack my way through it. I take the facts of the story, rearrange them to fit my standard outline, write it once, twice, run it through AutoCrit and post! Bam, I just sold a short story.--

Lumbar Puncture: the whole editing and promotion aspects are a biatch


I think I like editing other people's work more than I like writing my own. I'm not shabby at writing, but I'm pretty good at editing (but I'm terrible at proofreading, so I edit things and add errors in the process, so maybe I'm not so great at editing, actually). But promotion- I have no interest. I'm so glad that every creative endeavor I've ever undertaken has had people willing to take the tiller for those parts.
 
2013-05-09 09:14:09 PM
Ooh ooh... can I get on this pimping our self-published works?

Here's the link to my author profile. Got a couple books on there I think are right up Farker's alleys.
 
2013-05-09 09:21:40 PM
Christopher Stasheff nods approvingly.
 
2013-05-09 09:42:08 PM

OtherLittleGuy: scottydoesntknow: Mangoose: 1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.

Came to say this.


YUP
 
2013-05-09 09:45:23 PM

t3knomanser: I think I like editing other people's work more than I like writing my own. I'm not shabby at writing, but I'm pretty good at editing (but I'm terrible at proofreading, so I edit things and add errors in the process, so maybe I'm not so great at editing, actually). But promotion- I have no interest. I'm so glad that every creative endeavor I've ever undertaken has had people willing to take the tiller for those parts.


I totally get you on this.  I feel the exact same way.  When it's my own work, I'm my own worst critic.  The story of Abandon was a good story how it was, but you get a couple months removed and I start thinking, I could have done this - or maybe that, I could have added this.  The stories inside of me grow and change as I grow and change, which is one of the coolest things about self publishing.  I can do that if I want!

But what I *love* doing is reading other peoples work, and editing THAT plot.  My ex is currently writing a novel (and he's a FAR better writer than I am) and I've torn his plot to hell and back a couple times by now.  His work is definitely better for having me involved, and I wish there was a job out there where all I got to do was read stories and point out ways to make it better.

(One of the coolest things about the second novel though that's making me really enjoy writing it?  I am learning SO much about guns - so I guess I do like writing as long as I'm learning something new.)
 
2013-05-09 10:02:17 PM

skilbride: His work is definitely better for having me involved, and I wish there was a job out there where all I got to do was read stories and point out ways to make it better.


A friend of mind does that for a living. Works for a small publisher on the East Coast. He's very good at what he does. Needless to say, I'd love to abuse the friendship and ask him to go over my stuff ... but that's his vocation, so I don't ask for freebies*. Last time he went over a book for me (an unpublished novel), I returned the favor by doing similar work for him.


*It would be hypocritical if I did, anyway. Except for very close friends asking for very small jobs, I don't do freebies, either. Work is work. I don't ask my carpenter friend to build me a deck for free, so he shouldn't ask me to edit his book for free.
 
2013-05-09 10:33:24 PM
My husband managed to quit his job and now writes full time. The key is being a good writer, spending money on good editors and decent cover art and not being a dick to anyone. Today one of his is free and was number one on the Amazon Horror list. I'll play pimp..his stuff http://www.amazon.com/J.-L.-Bryan/e/B003DWKFHK

What's funniest about him now being "A Writer" is people seem almost aggressively disinterested after they ask what he does. 98% of the time, no follow up questions such as "Oh, what does he write?" or "Anything I've read?" People used to at least say "Oh is he an accountant?" When I used to say he worked at an accounting firm.
 
2013-05-10 12:17:21 AM
What's this? An author changing plot points in a novel after it's written to suit a sequel? What sort of madness is this?

2.bp.blogspot.com

Oh, never mind, carry on then.
 
2013-05-10 12:17:58 AM
Mangoose


1) Write a crappy book
2) Let paying readers serve as editors
3) Profit

Hasn't that been stephen king's model?
http://www.stephenking.com/error-typo.php

// asshat should have retired when the van hit him. His post-van work has been crappy.
 
2013-05-10 08:52:09 AM

schubie: My husband managed to quit his job and now writes full time. The key is being a good writer, spending money on good editors and decent cover art and not being a dick to anyone. Today one of his is free and was number one on the Amazon Horror list. I'll play pimp..his stuff http://www.amazon.com/J.-L.-Bryan/e/B003DWKFHK

What's funniest about him now being "A Writer" is people seem almost aggressively disinterested after they ask what he does. 98% of the time, no follow up questions such as "Oh, what does he write?" or "Anything I've read?" People used to at least say "Oh is he an accountant?" When I used to say he worked at an accounting firm.


Just grabbed a copy. Thanks.

Might i ask how he managed to collect so many reviews?
 
2013-05-10 08:54:53 AM

chase_neal: Indie Author?  Never heard of her.  Kind of a cool name for a writer though...


We named the dog Indie Author.
 
2013-05-10 10:39:50 AM

RockofAges: schubie:

What's funniest about him now being "A Writer" is people seem almost aggressively disinterested after they ask what he does. 98% of the time, no follow up questions such as "Oh, what does he write?" or "Anything I've read?" People used to at least say "Oh is he an accountant?" When I used to say he worked at an accounting firm.

I'm a writer and this couldn't be more true. Also, this thread is awesome. I promise I'll let you farkers know when my death-metal dystopia drops late summer. Punish the Wicked. Write it down ;).


The other 2% have "an awesome idea for a book, I'll tell you about it, you can write it and then we'll split the profits." My hubs doesn't have a shortage of ideas. Will be looking for "Punish the Wicked."
 
2013-05-10 10:51:32 AM

Ernie the Fork: schubie: My husband managed to quit his job and now writes full time. The key is being a good writer, spending money on good editors and decent cover art and not being a dick to anyone. Today one of his is free and was number one on the Amazon Horror list. I'll play pimp..his stuff http://www.amazon.com/J.-L.-Bryan/e/B003DWKFHK

What's funniest about him now being "A Writer" is people seem almost aggressively disinterested after they ask what he does. 98% of the time, no follow up questions such as "Oh, what does he write?" or "Anything I've read?" People used to at least say "Oh is he an accountant?" When I used to say he worked at an accounting firm.

Just grabbed a copy. Thanks.

Might i ask how he managed to collect so many reviews?


Many of the books have been out since 2010 so that certainly helps. Also, cultivating relationships with book bloggers. Giving them review copies,  always taking time to answer questions or make appearances on their blogs. Generally not being a dick (he's a great guy, so this comes naturally) He's had a couple of contests for free books that require winners to leave a review but I'd say that's probably less than 5% of the reviews you see. He also has the first book free in all of his series. (like that mythical crack dealer we always heard about in our D.A.R.E programming.) His theory is that some people feel bad for getting something decent for nothing and leave a review b/c of that.
 
2013-05-10 11:45:51 AM

schubie: My hubs doesn't have a shortage of ideas.


Ideas are easy. I have a database of hundreds of different ideas. I'm more than happy to dig into that DB to give ideas to others.
 
2013-05-10 02:12:07 PM

schubie: Ernie the Fork: schubie: My husband managed to quit his job and now writes full time. The key is being a good writer, spending money on good editors and decent cover art and not being a dick to anyone. Today one of his is free and was number one on the Amazon Horror list. I'll play pimp..his stuff http://www.amazon.com/J.-L.-Bryan/e/B003DWKFHK

What's funniest about him now being "A Writer" is people seem almost aggressively disinterested after they ask what he does. 98% of the time, no follow up questions such as "Oh, what does he write?" or "Anything I've read?" People used to at least say "Oh is he an accountant?" When I used to say he worked at an accounting firm.

Just grabbed a copy. Thanks.

Might i ask how he managed to collect so many reviews?

Many of the books have been out since 2010 so that certainly helps. Also, cultivating relationships with book bloggers. Giving them review copies,  always taking time to answer questions or make appearances on their blogs. Generally not being a dick (he's a great guy, so this comes naturally) He's had a couple of contests for free books that require winners to leave a review but I'd say that's probably less than 5% of the reviews you see. He also has the first book free in all of his series. (like that mythical crack dealer we always heard about in our D.A.R.E programming.) His theory is that some people feel bad for getting something decent for nothing and leave a review b/c of that.


Sounds like he has a dedicated home team as well. Thanks, schubie. Good advice I'll look to follow.
 
2013-05-10 04:30:41 PM

Pentaxian: What's this? An author changing plot points in a novel after it's written to suit a sequel? What sort of madness is this?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 300x301]

Oh, never mind, carry on then.




Bards!
upload.wikimedia.org

/bards
 
2013-05-10 04:44:06 PM
Ernie the Fork:

Sounds like he has a dedicated home team as well. Thanks, schubie. Good advice I'll look to follow.

Yeah, I really do adore his writing. My favorite is the Songs of Magic Series. Teen garage band steals enchanted fairy instruments. What's not to love about that? You farkers will like his sci-fi and horror. Mr The Fork, thanks so much for checking out his books!
 
2013-05-10 05:04:43 PM
While we're hear and chatting about our books....

I'm working on a new cover and looking for feedback:

http://jericlaing.com/
 
2013-05-10 09:13:00 PM

Ernie the Fork: While we're hear and chatting about our books....

I'm working on a new cover and looking for feedback:

http://jericlaing.com/


I think the new one is definitely more eye friendly than the red and black silhouette.  Are there other options (not sure there need be)?
 
2013-05-10 09:50:54 PM

schubie: Teen garage band steals enchanted fairy instruments. What's not to love about that?


Teenagers and fairies.
 
2013-05-10 09:54:26 PM

Ernie the Fork: I'm working on a new cover and looking for feedback:


I hate it. It looks like a stock photo, and I suspect that's because it  is a stock photo. The only covers on that page that I have any positive feelings for are  The Crooked Man's Mile and  Scissors and Tweed. They have a visual style that doesn't look copied from something else (despite being obviously derivative, don't ask me how that works, but they're at least visually interesting).
 
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