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(CBS News)   Castro: it's not my fault I kidnapped those ladies. I was sexually abused as a kid. It's not as if people have something called free will or anything   (cbsnews.com) divider line 155
    More: Followup, Ariel Castro, Gina DeJesus, law-enforcement sources  
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4367 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2013 at 12:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 02:37:07 PM
Jesus, leave the brothers alone.  Do you really think that if there was a shred of evidence against them the police would let them go?  They arrested them only because they were with him at the time of his arrest and the family association was probably enough to warrant questioning, plus they had warrants.

And as far as the letter it's not his defense in the case he is facing now, from the sounds of it somewhere along the way he felt guilty for what he did and maybe planned to commit suicide.  Unfortunately he decided to power through that guilt and carry on.
 
2013-05-09 02:48:56 PM
Death is too good for that farker. Might I suggest an adaptation of "To the pain" from The Princess Bride?
 
2013-05-09 02:49:07 PM

cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.


I can't figure out if it's cute or sad when people force "whom" where it doesn't belong.
 
2013-05-09 02:49:07 PM

CynicalLA: Mrbogey: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

Liberals.

You never stop being a partisan douchebag.


You were free to continue the joke with "Republicans".
 
2013-05-09 02:52:21 PM

CowardlyLion: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

I can't figure out if it's cute or sad when people force "whom" where it doesn't belong.


There isn't a difference betwixt "who" and "whom"
 
2013-05-09 02:53:33 PM

Walker: OK, I didn't know the year, just saw them on the news. But since the door is already padlocked who knows who/what he had locked down there then. Why is it padlocked?


I don't have a good answer for you, but his son is quoted as saying they weren't allowed in the basement, attic or garage. Clearly he was preparing for captives...presuming he didn't already have some. (There are conflicting reports of a fourth captive who "suddenly disappeared".)
 
2013-05-09 03:03:52 PM
Clearly, anyone claiming to have been sexually abused as a child should be put to death, or at least quarantined in solitary confinement for life.

Won't somebody please think of the children?
 
2013-05-09 03:14:10 PM
Jesus, is there no tragedy where conservatives wouldn't go looking for excuses to blame the victims?
 
2013-05-09 03:23:16 PM

cman: CowardlyLion: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

I can't figure out if it's cute or sad when people force "whom" where it doesn't belong.

There isn't a difference betwixt "who" and "whom"


Good to know you feel that way. You're wrong, but don't let that bother you--language is about using words that you feel are right.
 
2013-05-09 03:25:15 PM

CowardlyLion: cman: CowardlyLion: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

I can't figure out if it's cute or sad when people force "whom" where it doesn't belong.

There isn't a difference betwixt "who" and "whom"

Good to know you feel that way. You're wrong, but don't let that bother you--language is about using words that you feel are right.


Wow, I speak differently than you! What are the odds?
 
2013-05-09 03:34:17 PM

namatad: God Is My Co-Pirate: Oh, no doubt the man would suggest there were mitigating circumstances, that he had an unhappy childhood or was driven by Compulsive Well-Poisoning Disorder. But I have a compulsion to behead cowardly murderers. - Terry Pratchett, "Jingo"

it is so sad that pratchett has oldtimers disease and is starting to lose it ... so sad


bifford: Statistical evidence suggests that the incidence of past childhood abuse among felons rose sharply around the time courts began acknowledging it as a mitigating factor.

LOL
or it could be that we are starting to recognize and report abuse more?
Do I believe that this guy was abused? hell yes.
Should he rot in prison for the rest of his life? hell yes.
Should his brothers rot with him? hell yes.

FFS, this guy went outside with his daughter from one of his raped sex-slaves. When your brother shows up with a baby you ask, WHO'S the momma and WHERE is she?

So how many more missing people are chained in a basement somewhere?
sigh


If I was mayor I would create a position of "basement inspector" or "utility inspector" and have him go around checking everyone's basement.  Not for little things like pot growing, mind you, but for the real sick bastards of the "it puts the lotion on its skin" type.
 
2013-05-09 03:34:21 PM
Free will is an illusion and your actions are merely the result of your brain's physics-obeying electrical and chemical reactions to external stimuli.
 
2013-05-09 03:34:53 PM
There was an article in the DM (yeah, I know) which quoted the son as saying that he had last been in the house two weeks ago, but that the basement and a lot of other rooms were padlocked, but that was how it had always been. It sounds like his father was a paranoid, abusive freak for the guy's entire life, and that their relationship wasn't close, to put it mildly. As for the brothers, I can't imagine the police would make such a point of "They had nothing to do with it" if there was even an iota of evidence that they did. Neither of them lived with Ariel, they may not have visited his house more than anyone else did, and most importantly, the women themselves say they never saw them. They were just with him when he was arrested and had outstanding warrants for misdemeanours.

I can't say I see anything unlikely about one man being able to hold three women captive. It's not like he kidnapped them all at the same time, and after he got them to his house he could restrain them and keep them apart if he wanted to. Sick, but hardly impossible.
 
2013-05-09 03:37:43 PM
Knight told police, according to the report, that Castro impregnated her "at least 5 times," but that each time he would starve her and then punch her in the stomach to induce a miscarriage.

Good news, apparently it wasn't "legimitate rape" because we all know a woman's body would shut that shiat down.

My favorite part of this story is that the women had to wait until the main front door was unlocked to call a neighbor to smash the glass to rescue them. Sure the windows were covered with plastic bags and shades, but what kept them from breakin the glass on the front window?

I'm going on the record right now saying that the kidnapping part of this sexual slavery story is more akin to run-away and pimp situation.
 
2013-05-09 03:52:35 PM

Broktun: HaywoodJablonski: cman: NutWrench: WhoGAS: Except there are no reports of naked women outside the interviewee's fantasy.

Not sure is serious but from the USA Today article:

Elsie Cintron, who lives three houses away, said her daughter once saw a naked woman crawling on her hands and knees in the backyard several years ago and called police. "But they didn't take it seriously," she said.

Israel Lugo said he, his family and neighbors called police three times between 2011 and 2012 after seeing disturbing things at the home of Ariel Castro. Lugo lives two houses down from Castro and grew suspicious after neighbors reported seeing naked women on leashes crawling on all fours behind Castro's house.

A third call came from neighborhood women who lived in an apartment building. Those women told Lugo they called police because they saw three young girls crawling on all fours naked with dog leashes around their necks. Three men were controlling them in the backyard. The women told Lugo they waited two hours but police never responded to the calls.

There is a serious problem with that.... the girls have said that his brothers were not involved.
Once again, the brothers are not involved.

And, the girls never said that such happened to them. I said that the girls never said such happened to them.

Please stop with the bullshiat reporting.

The girls are filthy liars

Repressed memories.

They will remember, then the other two will be held accountable for their actions.


Even if they do "remember," it has been some decades since "recovered memories" were admissible in court as evidence. The scientific validity of the concept of recovered memories is, to put it charitably, questionable. At the absolute least, no one has found a way to distinguish an actual repressed memory, now recovered, from an implanted false memory.

At this point, there are two plausible explanations (one of which is really only semi-plausible) for the brothers' release. One possibility, and the far likelier of the two, is that there is actually no evidence against them.

There is also a possibility that they struck some kind of deal: immunity from prosecution, perhaps, in exchange for testimony against the kidnapper. But frankly, this is not a very likely scenario.
 
2013-05-09 03:57:28 PM

spill_thrill: Jesus, is there no tragedy where conservatives wouldn't go looking for excuses to blame the victims?


At least they are not apologizing to the kidnapping rapist on behalf of the people they represent this time... like with the BP oil spill.
 
2013-05-09 04:23:24 PM

Private_Citizen: maachubo: Private_Citizen: No excuses, No mercy.

Sentence him to the maximum punishment allowed by law, and forget him. We should spend our energy trying to heal the victims - the perp is neither fixable or worth the effort.

But if he is also a former victim, and neither fixable nor worth the effort, doesn't that suggest that we should not in fact try to heal the victims, because they will grow up to be criminals themselves?

I'm not sure if you're serious, but on the off chance you are....
I stand by my earlier statement: No Excuses, No Mercy. Both his heinous crimes, and the unbelievable duration he continued them mark him as a true monster. His victims will need years to heal - and that's where we should focus our efforts.

If he was a true victim - and that's a big if - he had several options, just a few of which were : confront his abuser to prevent others from suffering (bravest), seek help to heal (brave), pretend it never happened (option of the broken), etc. He chose D(emon), and decided to victimize others in the most horrible way imaginable. When he made that choice, he lost my sympathy.

No Excuses, No Mercy.




THIS
I was brutally abused as a child and I would personally slit someone's throat if they touched my boys. Then I would bathe in their blood and eat their hearts.

/really, I'm a sweetheart
//but I'd do it.
/// honest I'm a sweetheart
 
2013-05-09 04:29:20 PM

cman: NutWrench: WhoGAS: Except there are no reports of naked women outside the interviewee's fantasy.

Not sure is serious but from the USA Today article:

Elsie Cintron, who lives three houses away, said her daughter once saw a naked woman crawling on her hands and knees in the backyard several years ago and called police. "But they didn't take it seriously," she said.

Israel Lugo said he, his family and neighbors called police three times between 2011 and 2012 after seeing disturbing things at the home of Ariel Castro. Lugo lives two houses down from Castro and grew suspicious after neighbors reported seeing naked women on leashes crawling on all fours behind Castro's house.

A third call came from neighborhood women who lived in an apartment building. Those women told Lugo they called police because they saw three young girls crawling on all fours naked with dog leashes around their necks. Three men were controlling them in the backyard. The women told Lugo they waited two hours but police never responded to the calls.

There is a serious problem with that.... the girls have said that his brothers were not involved.
Once again, the brothers are not involved.

And, the girls never said that such happened to them. I said that the girls never said such happened to them.

Please stop with the bullshiat reporting.


So you're the one interviewing the women and have been present for all interviews? Since you know everything the women have and have not said?
 
2013-05-09 04:35:51 PM
Some people get this whole thing ass backwards, don't they?

If a violent pervert claims that he was unable to control himself from attacking women or children because he was abused as a child, that is NOT a reason to go lightly on him and on other criminals with similar backgrounds. Rather, it is a clear sign that the authorities ignore so often it makes me mad that society needs more and better counselling services for victims of child sexual abuse while the victims are still young.

By putting greater resources into healing these abused children's souls we lessen the chances that they will grow up to become an Ariel Castro or Ted Bundy. Maybe if Ariel Castro and his brothers had gotten sufficient counselling and support as children they would not have turned out this way. At least we can lessen the chances of this happening for the next generation of child victims.
 
2013-05-09 04:54:23 PM

A Leaf in Fall: There's decent enough scientific evidence that no one actually has free will, and that time as we experience it has always existed and will always exist, and that we are just perceiving our way through it.


I got into the "free will/no free will" discussion with a friend at a bar.  We were both a bit drunk, and he was arguing that there is no free will.  I slapped him (lightly) across the face.  Then I did it again, at which point he told me to stop.  I told him "I can only choose to stop if I have free will.  If I don't have free will, then I have no choice, I'm either going to slap you again, or not, and there isn't anything I can do about it".
 
2013-05-09 04:58:10 PM

namatad: LOL
or it could be that we are starting to recognize and report abuse more?


That certainly is a factor, especially in the Oprah era where rape victims are praised for speaking out instead of shamed.  But criminals lie, and they will say or do whatever they think will help them beat the rap.  If childhood abuse is acceptable as a mitigating factor, then it must be proven.
 
2013-05-09 04:58:30 PM

Heathen: TV's Vinnie: THEN IT'S HIS OWN DAMN FAULT THAT HE'S NOW IN JAIL AND SOON TO HAVE HIS ASS POUNDED RAW BY TWENTY BLACK CONVICTS.

why no love for the latinos and skinheads?


because they'll be pounding the other end.
 
2013-05-09 05:03:05 PM
Ohio has the death penalty. I kind of hope that they can work that on him. There, I said it.
 
2013-05-09 05:11:17 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: ohdoublereally: Mrbogey: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

Liberals.

At least he didn't blame George Bush.

Well this did all start under Bush's watch, now didn't it? And he won Ohio in 2000, so you do the math. Go ahead, we'll wait.


Aren't you mister persnickety?
 
2013-05-09 05:17:54 PM

Truncks1: Walker: He also said it was their own fault because they got in the car of a stranger.

I can't believe his brothers aren't being charged with anything. They all lived there didn't they? They never asked him "Hey bro, what's with all that screaming coming from the basement and who are these women who keep coming up out of the basement?". At the very least they are accomplices.

I dont understand why they let the brothers go either. It makes no sense. The only information I've seen about it just states that they let them go


Most likely to follow them around to see if they can find any other connections in the sex slave and trafficking communities. And yes they are out there.

The two other brothers are allegedly drunkard idiots. The authorities are probably hoping they get a false sense of security, fark up, and lead them to bigger parts of the sex trafficking racket and find, a d rescue more victims and capture more offenders.

At least I HOPE that is the strategy
 
2013-05-09 05:18:05 PM

cman: CowardlyLion: cman: CowardlyLion: cman: These people aint robots

They do act on their own feelings.

Whomever invented the "ITS SOCIETIES FAULT THAT I..." needs to be beaten with a dildo.

I can't figure out if it's cute or sad when people force "whom" where it doesn't belong.

There isn't a difference betwixt "who" and "whom"

Good to know you feel that way. You're wrong, but don't let that bother you--language is about using words that you feel are right.

Wow, I speak differently than you! What are the odds?


notsureifserious.  Who/whom=he/him.
 
2013-05-09 05:21:39 PM
So he was abused as a child, so he had to abuse three other children, who will, quite obviously, have to abuse 3 other children (each). This will multiply exponetionaly until everyone on the planet is either a molestor, or sex slave. Or maybe there will even be a hiarchy of sex slaves. Like a master will have a few slaves, but those high ranking sex slaves get a few sex slaves of their own, and those mid-ranking sex slaves will get a few sex slaves. The master will be able to fark his way down the chain, but the lower ranking slaves won't be able to fark up the chain.

I imagine the president will eventualy be the top master and can fark anyone. I probably won't rank higher than maybe 20 rows from the bottom, so all my sex slaves will be fat skanks.
 
2013-05-09 05:26:52 PM

Heathen: TV's Vinnie: THEN IT'S HIS OWN DAMN FAULT THAT HE'S NOW IN JAIL AND SOON TO HAVE HIS ASS POUNDED RAW BY TWENTY BLACK CONVICTS.

why no love for the latinos and skinheads?


Yeah, why's it got to be just the black guys? Does that make it worse or something? Are you one of those types that think black people don't have souls so interatial relationships are like committig beastiality or something?

Everyone in that prison is free to ass rape this man regardless of race, creed or political affiliation.

I will thank you to stop being such a racist asshat
 
2013-05-09 06:06:40 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Yeah, why's it got to be just the black guys? Does that make it worse or something? Are you one of those types that think black people don't have souls so interatial relationships are like committig beastiality or something?


I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he is celebrating the legendary sexual endowment and prowess of the African-American male, and that to be subject to such prodigious manhood and insatiable appetite would be a fitting consequence for Mr. Castro. By no means does it diminish the cultural and scientific contributions of the African-American community, it simply calls us to focus our attention on this one thick, rigid aspect.
 
2013-05-09 07:14:12 PM

KarmicDisaster: Ohio has the death penalty. I kind of hope that they can work that on him. There, I said it.


well, they want to make it a death penalty case for the how was babby deformed beatings.

isn't Ohio a purple (red / blue) state? the murdered fetus thing is less dumb in that case. (either it is life or not, and you can't have it both ways.)

I disagree with the death penalty... but I guess I wouldn't shed a tear for this guy.
 
2013-05-09 07:33:25 PM

Stone Meadow: The brothers' story was also corroborated by cousins and neighbors, who all say Ariel never allowed anyone inside the house, with two known exceptions: a cousin was allowed into the living room (just inside the front door) in the mid-90's. He described what he saw of the house as a hovel, with a makeshift "tent" in the living room where Ariel slept in order to minimize heating costs.


Interesting. I was thinking already that one obvious answer to the "who doesn't let anyone including relatives into their house???" question is "hoarders, that's who."

If he just seemed like a hoarding recluse and the one time someone went in (long before any kidnapping was happening) they saw what pretty much seems like a hoarder house, they probably didn't ask about it and just wrote the guy off as their weird messy relative.

It's only hindsight people are thinking it couldn't possibly happen.

Walker: Bullsh*t. I have seen pictures from inside the house taken by various people who have visited it, one even showing a padlock on the basement door located in the kitchen.


All the pics in the Daily Fail have been from before this case took place.  It's weird to have a padlock on the door, but if your relative always has...?  Everyone thought he was a paranoid nut already, but that doesn't mean you just leap to "maybe he has sex slaves in the basement."  Plus, if he says no, what do you do? Report your relative for having a padlock on part of his own property? The police are not going to do anything.

/well, before this story, anyway
//now maybe people will insist on going down to the basement
 
2013-05-09 08:36:05 PM

bifford: Statistical evidence suggests that the incidence of past childhood abuse among felons rose sharply around the time courts began acknowledging it as a mitigating factor.


LOL That wouldn't surprise me. Do you have a citation for that? It isn't that I doubt you (it looks as though it would be correct) but I want to be able to point it out in the future and I'm sure someone will ask me for a citation.
 
2013-05-09 08:46:04 PM

madgonad: If the girls knew about the brothers than the brothers knew about them.


How the hell do you logic your way to that conclusion? That is mind-numbingly, almost blisteringly, dumb.

I'll give you a hint. It's called communication. The bad brother communicated to the victims that he had brothers. He didn't (from the evidence we are currently privy to) communicate information about the victims to his brothers. Why would he? They might call the cops on him.

You have strange logic. I think we should call it unlogic.
 
2013-05-09 09:04:03 PM

spill_thrill: Jesus, is there no tragedy where conservatives wouldn't go looking for excuses to blame the victims?


Err... Where are you seeing this? The only partisan comment I've seen had nothing to do with the victims unless you're calling the perpetrator the victim. They mentioned that the rise of the self-esteem era was due to the liberals and the self-esteem comment was concerning the kidnapper's expression that it wasn't their fault due to them having been abused.

Am I missing something or are you pissing yourself for no reason?
 
2013-05-09 09:42:49 PM
UnspokenVoice:  The bad brother communicated to the victims that he had brothers. He didn't (from the evidence we are currently privy to) communicate information about the victims to his brothers. Why would he? They might call the cops on him.

True, especially since they are both severe alkies they are likely to talk to *someone*, if not report him. Word would get out.
 
2013-05-09 10:29:45 PM

Walker: He also said it was their own fault because they got in the car of a stranger.

I can't believe his brothers aren't being charged with anything. They all lived there didn't they? They never asked him "Hey bro, what's with all that screaming coming from the basement and who are these women who keep coming up out of the basement?". At the very least they are accomplices.


No, they did not live there. The only reason they were arrested is because one of them was with Ariel when Ariel was arrested, who then spoke up to say if you're looking for our 3rd brother he's at mom's house, so the police went there and arrested him too. They were arrested just in case they were involved. Which they were not.
 
2013-05-09 10:43:28 PM
I've been waiting for him to claim self defense.
 
2013-05-09 10:49:45 PM

UnspokenVoice: spill_thrill: Jesus, is there no tragedy where conservatives wouldn't go looking for excuses to blame the victims?

Err... Where are you seeing this? The only partisan comment I've seen had nothing to do with the victims unless you're calling the perpetrator the victim. They mentioned that the rise of the self-esteem era was due to the liberals and the self-esteem comment was concerning the kidnapper's expression that it wasn't their fault due to them having been abused.

Am I missing something or are you pissing yourself for no reason?


You got trolled
 
2013-05-10 01:15:42 AM

UnspokenVoice: bifford: Statistical evidence suggests that the incidence of past childhood abuse among felons rose sharply around the time courts began acknowledging it as a mitigating factor.

LOL That wouldn't surprise me. Do you have a citation for that? It isn't that I doubt you (it looks as though it would be correct) but I want to be able to point it out in the future and I'm sure someone will ask me for a citation.


Eh... no, I don't have any actual statistics, so I embellished that a little (but this is Fark.com, so fark you), but I'm sure it's true, and if I ever stumble across any statistics I'll bookmark them.
 
2013-05-10 03:18:05 AM
Can anyone of you fair minded intellectuals tell me this: How is this in any way or form worse than or equally as bad as murder?
The guy kidnapped and raped three girls for a decade, robbing them of some of the best years of their lives and giving them mental scars that will probably never really fade.
But murder is the end of everything. The end of the life, of all oppertunities, love and happiness that would have come.

Surely, murder is worse, isn't it?
This is by all means horrible and he's a horrible person, but on the scale of evil this is just difficult to hide and thus a rare event. It's not like he raped and murdered a child. I get why it's garnering so much media attention; it's a rare incident. It's the freakshow of crime; you haven't seen this a bajizillion of times in the news already. But still, murder's got to be worse, and should be treated as such.
 
2013-05-10 04:28:08 AM

teenytinycornteeth: I don't understand the law (I'm not saying that in a smartassery way, I honestly don't understand it). If you are charged with one count of rape does that mean you could have raped 1 person fifty times? Is each count essentially a victim?  It seems like there should be something akin to Super Mega Rape when you're attacking a woman constantly for a decade.


Each count is one instance of rape.  Potentially hundreds of counts per victim in this case.  He'll be charged with the ones that prosecutors feel they have the best chance of proving beyond any doubt that a reasonable person would have.  That will depend on a victim's memory of a given instance and any witnesses to it.

Then they'll add up all the maximum penalties, show them to Ariel, and ask if he wants to make a deal.  Or not.  They may go for the death penalty.
 
2013-05-10 04:35:30 AM

BarkingUnicorn: They may go for the death penalty.


I don't see how they can. As long as it isn't stated somewhere that "really really really many counts equals death" there isn't an opening for the death penalty neither as a result as kidnapping OR rape. It's reserved for murder. And in this case, horrible as it might be, no murder has taken place.
 
2013-05-10 06:05:53 AM

wickedragon: Can anyone of you fair minded intellectuals tell me this: How is this in any way or form worse than or equally as bad as murder?
The guy kidnapped and raped three girls for a decade, robbing them of some of the best years of their lives and giving them mental scars that will probably never really fade.
But murder is the end of everything. The end of the life, of all oppertunities, love and happiness that would have come.

Surely, murder is worse, isn't it?
This is by all means horrible and he's a horrible person, but on the scale of evil this is just difficult to hide and thus a rare event. It's not like he raped and murdered a child. I get why it's garnering so much media attention; it's a rare incident. It's the freakshow of crime; you haven't seen this a bajizillion of times in the news already. But still, murder's got to be worse, and should be treated as such.


That is such a tough question and has less to do with intellectuals than it does emotions.

A dead person's suffering is over.  A raped person's suffering may never end.  That suffering may bleed over to another generation and create a perpetual depression.

A murderer, depending on motive, may be in more pain the rest of his or her life (murder of passion) or could be completely ambivalent, so many variables.  A rapist may do the same...a religious rapist going against his or her own religious views could cause as much emotional pain as a murderer in deep regret.  Comparisons and equivalencies are so difficult when dealing with emotions and cultural norms.

May, could, might...I don't know.

Which is "better"?  Define better.

/I'm not an intellectual, though, I'm just a guy on the internet
 
2013-05-10 07:08:30 AM

WhoGAS: wickedragon: Can anyone of you fair minded intellectuals tell me this: How is this in any way or form worse than or equally as bad as murder?
The guy kidnapped and raped three girls for a decade, robbing them of some of the best years of their lives and giving them mental scars that will probably never really fade.
But murder is the end of everything. The end of the life, of all oppertunities, love and happiness that would have come.

Surely, murder is worse, isn't it?
This is by all means horrible and he's a horrible person, but on the scale of evil this is just difficult to hide and thus a rare event. It's not like he raped and murdered a child. I get why it's garnering so much media attention; it's a rare incident. It's the freakshow of crime; you haven't seen this a bajizillion of times in the news already. But still, murder's got to be worse, and should be treated as such.

That is such a tough question and has less to do with intellectuals than it does emotions.

A dead person's suffering is over.  A raped person's suffering may never end.  That suffering may bleed over to another generation and create a perpetual depression.

A murderer, depending on motive, may be in more pain the rest of his or her life (murder of passion) or could be completely ambivalent, so many variables.  A rapist may do the same...a religious rapist going against his or her own religious views could cause as much emotional pain as a murderer in deep regret.  Comparisons and equivalencies are so difficult when dealing with emotions and cultural norms.

May, could, might...I don't know.

Which is "better"?  Define better.

/I'm not an intellectual, though, I'm just a guy on the internet


"better" is difficult. I think we're both trying to grasp at something that could be "better" when discussing someones suffering or happiness. I think we are better served (oh, there's that word again) with discussing 'more happiness' rather than 'less suffering'

Although I certainly see the need to 'factor in' suffering, having that as the main argument leads to the unfortunate consequence that the best thing to do with someone who has experienced something dreadful is to, well, end their suffering. That would be setting the meaphorical suffering gague to zero, and would be better.
Thus I think we're better (oh!) served thinking about "happiness" rather than "suffering". And the girls will hopefully find happiness. Iirc neither Seligman(2002) and Kahneman (2005) (which are the only two articles on the subject of happiness I remember enough of to find the actual names and years) can point to having an extreme crisis as having an effect on your general happiness, so the girls have statistics on their side at least.
And if happiness is the gauge and we want more of it then murder is the ultimate nullifier.
 
2013-05-10 07:09:39 AM
WhoGAS:
/I'm not an intellectual, though, I'm just a guy on the internet

Your comments and questions unfortunately places you square in the group "intellectuals". Sry :/
 
2013-05-10 07:11:03 AM
Growing up I had an alcoholic step farther and when I said something he didn't like, or did something he didn't like...I would catch a beating. Then, as I grew up and someone said something I didn't like, or did something I didn't like...I thought I was obligated to give them a beating. I honestly didn't know any better.

 
We finally left that situation when I was 10, from that point until I joined the military academy if someone said (or did) something I didn't like....they would get a good old fashion passionate ass whipping.


Once I joined the academy, I learned that there are other (and much better) ways to cope when someone says (or does) something I don't like. I learned about things like trust, and teamwork, and without that experience (the academy) I think I would have ended up in jail (or dead).

TL:DR - If farked up stuff happens to a person their whole life, and they grow up not knowing any better...a person very well might do some strange (and very, Very WRONG) shiat...unknowingly.
 
2013-05-10 07:16:02 AM

A Leaf in Fall: There's decent enough scientific evidence that no one actually has free will, and that time as we experience it has always existed and will always exist, and that we are just perceiving our way through it.


Everything that can be done...was being done, is being done, and will always continue to be done and while we do have free will...we already made all our choices.

...or I am farking nutz. (the latter is more likely)
 
2013-05-10 07:27:19 AM

wickedragon: "better" is difficult. I think we're both trying to grasp at something that could be "better" when discussing someones suffering or happiness. I think we are better served (oh, there's that word again) with discussing 'more happiness' rather than 'less suffering'

Although I certainly see the need to 'factor in' suffering, having that as the main argument leads to the unfortunate consequence that the best thing to do with someone who has experienced something dreadful is to, well, end their suffering.

That would be setting the meaphorical suffering gague to zero, and would be better.

Thus I think we're better (oh!) served thinking about "happiness" rather than "suffering".

And the girls will hopefully find happiness.

Iirc neither Seligman(2002) and Kahneman (2005) (which are the only two articles on the subject of happiness I remember enough of to find the actual names and years) can point to having an extreme crisis as having an effect on your general happiness, so the girls have statistics on their side at least.

And if happiness is the gauge and we want more of it then murder is the ultimate nullifier.


Ah. I see your point.  Yes, if we select the perspective of "more happiness", I completely agree with your view.  I mean, how could I not?  But we both must agree that the solution is an emotional one and not an intellectual one.

Maybe we could find a middle ground?  I think we could agree on "better" being defined (in this case) as the person with the least ability or desire to cause harm to others.  If not, we can revisit the definition.

Dang...I just re-read your post:

"Can anyone of you fair minded intellectuals tell me this: How is this in any way or form worse than or equally as bad as murder?"

Here we are going on about the positive side when you asked about the negative and neutral side!  Lol. I get so caught up sometimes and I concede fault in this...I'm the one who was thinking on the positive side.

You know what, if you want to actually carry on the conversation (which I'm more than willing to do...this is great!) email me and I'll send you my IM (skype, lync, whatever) to continue. 

You're actually pretty farking cool and I would love to talk to you more on this subject and others if the topics come up.
 
2013-05-10 08:24:45 AM
I look forward to his fellow prisoners explaining to him how they feel about child molesters and rapists. Then, after they whoop his ass, they can say "Hey, my old man whooped my ass, so you know, I'm the victim here."
 
2013-05-10 08:26:34 AM

muck4doo: A Leaf in Fall: There's decent enough scientific evidence that no one actually has free will, and that time as we experience it has always existed and will always exist, and that we are just perceiving our way through it.

Oh shut the fark up.


You have always said that and will always say that. You have no choice.
 
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