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(Kickstarter)   Attention Nerd Parental Units: Farker's buddy's exceedingly cool tabletop game to get kids hooked and geeked early is Kickstarter's Project of the Day. Help a brother out   (kickstarter.com) divider line 65
    More: Cool, Kickstarter, Fark, Adventure Maximus, Maximus, experience point  
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4935 clicks; posted to FarkUs » on 09 May 2013 at 12:37 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 10:59:38 AM
That actually looks really cool.  Bookmarking till payday.
 
2013-05-09 11:31:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?
 
2013-05-09 12:05:47 PM

unlikely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?


If it would get him writing faster id be tempted,
, Robert Jordan, and stephen kings gunslinger ive spent a lot of time waiting on books to come out but they finished
its time for Martin to hurry the fark up
 
2013-05-09 12:53:36 PM
Hey Subby, go shill elsewhere.

Oh, and fark YOU!!!!
 
2013-05-09 01:21:19 PM
Looks cool.  Thanks for posting.
 
2013-05-09 01:28:51 PM
8 fully illustrated race cards

I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THE RACE CARD
 
2013-05-09 01:36:52 PM

unlikely: The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"


Yeah, this. I'm not forking over donations to an established operation with existing access to capital so that they can make even more money. And f*ck you for asking.
 
2013-05-09 01:37:56 PM

unlikely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?


Id give him money if he speeds up, but if the quality went down hill I would be on his doorstep demanding my money back.
 
2013-05-09 01:41:10 PM

unlikely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?


Kickstarter should only offer these if the reward for contributing involves a share of profits.
 
2013-05-09 01:41:46 PM

romanmike_27: unlikely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?

If it would get him writing faster id be tempted,
, Robert Jordan, and stephen kings gunslinger ive spent a lot of time waiting on books to come out but they finished
its time for Martin to hurry the fark up


I'm convinced he's going to kick the bucket before finishing 6 & 7.

Oh god ... the fan fiction that would result to 'finish' the characters' stories. It'd probably involve Daenerys having kinky sex with her dragons (especially the one named after her husband) to birth more dragons.

*shudders*
 
2013-05-09 01:48:02 PM
 the fantastic, post-apocalyptic world ofEx-Machina

I think we're done here....
 
2013-05-09 01:51:26 PM
What the fark are you talking about? "Geeked early"? Yeah, perfect, because I'm pretty desperate to put my children into their high school clique while they're young and before they can even comprehend the social demands and expectations being applied to them.
 
2013-05-09 01:52:25 PM

bigbadideasinaction: Kickstarter should only offer these if the reward for contributing involves a share of profits.


Yeah, I wish more kickstarters offered a share of the profits model.  //Do any?
 
2013-05-09 01:59:47 PM

aevorea: I'm convinced he's going to kick the bucket before finishing 6 & 7.

Oh god ... the fan fiction that would result to 'finish' the characters' stories. It'd probably involve Daenerys having kinky sex with her dragons (especially the one named after her husband) to birth more dragons.


Rest easy. I know for certain they're plotted and outlined. He has an assistant who is a bestseller in his own right, and the guy who's scripting the comics for him is a close personal friend of both. We'll get the ending he intends, no matter what.
 
2013-05-09 02:13:58 PM

Cagey B: unlikely: The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

Yeah, this. I'm not forking over donations to an established operation with existing access to capital so that they can make even more money. And f*ck you for asking.


To be fair, those of us in actual need of capital don't have the capital to run a slick Kickstarter. It's kind of a catch-22.
 
2013-05-09 02:18:50 PM
Attention Nerd Parental Units: Farker's buddy's exceedingly cool tabletop game to get kids hooked and geeked early is Kickstarter's Project of the Day. Help a brother out

If that is filtered wouldn't read:

Attention Nerd Parental Units: Fu*ker's buddy's exceedingly cool tabletop game to get kids hooked and geeked early is Kickstarter's Project of the Day. Help a brother out

WTH is a "fu*ker is buddy is"?
 
2013-05-09 02:28:11 PM

MindStalker: bigbadideasinaction: Kickstarter should only offer these if the reward for contributing involves a share of profits.

Yeah, I wish more kickstarters offered a share of the profits model.  //Do any?


I think that it's actually against the TOS of kickstarter, and I can sorta understand given the legal ramifications of effectively issuing shares in a company that kickstarter doesn't want to get caught in that. Even if they had a conditional of "if we make money on this all the $5 contributors get the $10 reward, all the $10 get the $20" etc. I can at least see some sense of value. It's still a bad deal, but better than the warm fuzzy feeling of making sure people with already more money than you don't have to risk their own precious dollars.
 
2013-05-09 02:32:29 PM

Cagey B: unlikely: The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

Yeah, this. I'm not forking over donations to an established operation with existing access to capital so that they can make even more money. And f*ck you for asking.


If you're getting a license or paid access for the end product in exchange for your Kickstarter contribution, is it really a "donation" or are you really "pre-ordering" your copy? If you get extra schwag for contributing more how is this different from buying a special boxed edition or DLC from a AAA publisher?

Kickstarter isn't necessarily for nonprofit start ups here. Public crowdsourcing necessarily is not farking charity.
 
2013-05-09 02:43:28 PM
The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.
 
2013-05-09 03:01:07 PM

MindStalker: Yeah, I wish more kickstarters offered a share of the profits model.  //Do any?


There are some pretty heavy securities regulation ramifications that would come from such an arrangement. Backing a project that promises to pay you a share of the profits is indistinguishable from a company selling you stock in itself, and that triggers a lot of requirements for the company to register shares and make disclosures and so on. It's easier from a legal perspective to just give away a fixed item for a fixed contribution, and let the owner of the project take whatever profits can be made on the idea.
 
2013-05-09 03:01:34 PM

Foxxinnia: What the fark are you talking about? "Geeked early"? Yeah, perfect, because I'm pretty desperate to put my children into their high school clique while they're young and before they can even comprehend the social demands and expectations being applied to them.


My little brother is begging me to teach him how to play D&D after seeing it on Big Bang Theory.

Two problems:
1. I've never played D&D, I don't even know where to start
2. He has about a 2 min attention span

He's already got a pile of tabletop games he plays.  This might be perfect for him.
 
2013-05-09 03:02:19 PM
On topic of role-playing - anyone have a recommendation for simple (and quick starting) game for two people?  I liked most of the parts of D&D, just not the need for groups, a DM or pretending.  Most of the game websites are blocked at work.
 
2013-05-09 03:09:08 PM

medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.


They do bring up a good question, though. Why does an established company need to Kickstart? Like DoubleFine and their Kickstarter, WTF, they should have publishers courting them, not the other way around. Seems odd to me.
 
2013-05-09 03:26:13 PM
Here's another cool Kickstarter board game: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1439320213/spy-or-die-trying
 
2013-05-09 03:31:00 PM
Maybe.

There's also the Dagger RPG, which is a stripped down version of Swords & Wizardry, which is itself a very good derivative of the original White Box D&D.

It's free, or you can get the pretty covered PDF for $1.

That's what I'll be using.
 
2013-05-09 03:42:23 PM

medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.


No, we think you're a rube for throwing extra money at a company holding their own product for ransom.
 
2013-05-09 03:46:45 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: If you're getting a license or paid access for the end product in exchange for your Kickstarter contribution, is it really a "donation" or are you really "pre-ordering" your copy? If you get extra schwag for contributing more how is this different from buying a special boxed edition or DLC from a AAA publisher?


When I preorder something, I'm expecting to receive that product no matter what; sometimes the release date is fuzzy, but usually that product is expected to be delivered at a certain date. I'm not in the habit of purchasing items that maybe I'll get, if everything goes right.

Now, I might be inclined to donate for something cool that, without my assistance, would never have a chance at mainstream financing. And I don't have a problem with established operations playing with other peoples' money. That's business. But I think it's a f*cking con when a company that already has the means to move forward on a project like this is basically getting money for free from people who aren't wealthy just so they don't have to be inconvenienced by paying back investors or paying interest.

And another thing. The only reason we know that it's an established company doing this is because unlikely did a little research. I couldn't find a reference to Eden anywhere on the Kickstarter page. So they're faking the appearance of some guy doing a startup out of his garage or whatever. If people still find it worth it to put their money towards this after knowing all the facts, then whatever, but if the money they were going to donate is meant to give non-traditional ventures a chance, then they should go elsewhere.
 
2013-05-09 03:51:06 PM

medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.


I don't find it ideological in the least. Why would I give money to a company that already has no problem getting it? If I want to support their activities, I'll buy their product when it comes out. Listing yourself on Kickstarter, using its mostly undeserved reputation as a small enterprise incubator and conveniently neglecting to mention the fact that you're part of an established game company, is a scumbag move. It has nothing to do with whatever bullshiat "romanticization" of Kickstart that you're derping about, and everything to do with not wanting to be a mark for shiat like this.
 
2013-05-09 03:59:30 PM

romanmike_27: unlikely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Studios,_Inc.

The guy running this kickstarter already has a game publishing studio with several successful titles... this feels to me like someone going "hey, I have an idea, instead of having my successful studio invest all the up front money, I'll get the crowd to fund it and then I'll get 100% of the profit without that pesky 'cost' thing!"

I'm happy your buddy has a cool idea and all, but seriously, isn't this kind of exactly the opposite of what KickStarter was about?

Next up: George R. R. Martin's Kickstarter to help him write a novel?

If it would get him writing faster id be tempted,
, Robert Jordan, and stephen kings gunslinger ive spent a lot of time waiting on books to come out but they finished
its time for Martin to hurry the fark up


Did you hear George R. R. Martin has lung cancer? He is going to die, soon.
 
2013-05-09 04:01:05 PM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.

They do bring up a good question, though. Why does an established company need to Kickstart? Like DoubleFine and their Kickstarter, WTF, they should have publishers courting them, not the other way around. Seems odd to me.


Because if the crowd is willing to fund things, capitalism says that you utlilize that to reduce your own costs? No one forced anyone to donate to Double Fine, but people did.

That's like saying "I know you just sold a million copies of your CD, but your friend Ted is willing to finance the recording studio rental for your followup album!"

"Oh no thanks, I made some money so I'd rather pay out of pocket."

Kickstarter is just a platform, it isn't some morally pristine "only for those in need" system. If people will fund, why wouldn't you make use of that? Besides some flimsy emotional reason.
 
2013-05-09 04:10:15 PM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.

They do bring up a good question, though. Why does an established company need to Kickstart? Like DoubleFine and their Kickstarter, WTF, they should have publishers courting them, not the other way around. Seems odd to me.


Retain creative control of your project?

You have an awesome idea for a game. You solucit capital and a publisher and get EA.

Your vision is now blurred, but can be corrected if you get the always on DRM expansion pack!

That is why starcitizen, in part, crowd funded.
 
2013-05-09 04:13:27 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Did you hear George R. R. Martin has lung cancer? He is going to die, soon.


LOL wut?
No he does not. That's utter crap.
 
2013-05-09 04:15:07 PM

Cagey B: When I preorder something, I'm expecting to receive that product no matter what; sometimes the release date is fuzzy, but usually that product is expected to be delivered at a certain date. I'm not in the habit of purchasing items that maybe I'll get, if everything goes right.


As established AAA publishers don't routinely miss deadlines or have projects die before release. The only difference here is they generally have more saved up and can absorb that loss, whereas  start ups and/or indy publishers don't have the capital or the credit to raise that capital, so they use crowdsourcing. If one does not understand how a lot of this works one has not done one's due diligence; no matter what one would investing in or contributing to, such a person demonstrates he or she is too dumb to be making his or her own decisions.

Sounds like you're just not feeling the indy game thing as much (or at least this one). Not saying that you're wrong in feeling this way either in this particular situation or in general, but unless there is misrepresentation involved it is rather douchey to flame others for contributing to the Kickstarter of a game they hope gets made.

Now, I might be inclined to donate for something cool that, without my assistance, would never have a chance at mainstream financing. And I don't have a problem with established operations playing with other peoples' money. That's business. But I think it's a f*cking con when a company that already has the means to move forward on a project like this is basically getting money for free from people who aren't wealthy just so they don't have to be inconvenienced by paying back investors or paying interest.

You're free to do your own research and even established companies have issues preventing them from taking advantage of credit etc. that aren't necessarily related to incompetence or dishonesty etc. A lot of times investors will attempt to pull the strings of their investees and a company would rather be more beholden to their direct customers (granted this is rare and best case scenario).

Granted it would be relatively douchey for someone like Mojang to get into Kickstarter especially given their very successful experience raising capital for Minecraft, though there was a very real chance that the final product could have failed or never been completed.

And another thing. The only reason we know that it's an established company doing this is because unlikely did a little research. I couldn't find a reference to Eden anywhere on the Kickstarter page. So they're faking the appearance of some guy doing a startup out of his garage or whatever. If people still find it worth it to put their money towards this after knowing all the facts, then whatever, but if the money they were going to donate is meant to give non-traditional ventures a chance, then they should go elsewhere.

On the surface, I agree. In the very least I'm wondering why he's essentially burying his relationship with Eden; if he were more up front about it I wouldn't care as much (or at least I'd look at less developed publishers first). As for Eden, they're hardly EA, they have put out decent games in the past but are hardly industry juggernauts with cash falling out the buttocks, I don't know why they would not want to advertise that they are trying to raise capital for this game (or at least why Mr. Vasilakos is going this route).
 
2013-05-09 04:17:22 PM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.

They do bring up a good question, though. Why does an established company need to Kickstart? Like DoubleFine and their Kickstarter, WTF, they should have publishers courting them, not the other way around. Seems odd to me.


The problem is that publishers in the video game industry are only looking for multi-million seller blockbusters, and the majority of that money never makes it back to the Development Team anyway. So people like Double Fine, who know they have at least a decent sized audience for their type of game, use Kickstarter to generate the funds to keep them running and make the game they want to make, instead of being beholden to the whims of a publisher like EA.
 
2013-05-09 04:21:10 PM

TheFark5000: On topic of role-playing - anyone have a recommendation for simple (and quick starting) game for two people?  I liked most of the parts of D&D, just not the need for groups, a DM or pretending.  Most of the game websites are blocked at work.


Descent would work. There also a couple of d&d board games that play ok but expect to die on a regular basis.
 
2013-05-09 04:23:31 PM

Cagey B: medieval: The above parade of stupid comments about Kickstarter is what happens when people romanticize a web service, and think other people should refrain from using their pure, wholesome web service for purely ideological reasons, conformance to all site rules and policy be damned.

I don't find it ideological in the least. Why would I give money to a company that already has no problem getting it? If I want to support their activities, I'll buy their product when it comes out. Listing yourself on Kickstarter, using its mostly undeserved reputation as a small enterprise incubator and conveniently neglecting to mention the fact that you're part of an established game company, is a scumbag move. It has nothing to do with whatever bullshiat "romanticization" of Kickstart that you're derping about, and everything to do with not wanting to be a mark for shiat like this.


Funding anything start up or indy is always risky. Hell, I bought a pre-order license of  Blockade Runner as I'd love to make a similar game, the demo wasn't unenjoyable (despite its bugs), and even though I see potential for an enjoyable game with what they've developed so far, I'd go entirely different directions than what they'd gone with.
 
2013-05-09 04:27:42 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Funding anything start up or indy is always risky. Hell, I bought a pre-order license of Blockade Runner as I'd love to make a similar game, the demo wasn't unenjoyable (despite its bugs), and even though I see potential for an enjoyable game with what they've developed so far, I'd go entirely different directions than what they'd gone with.


I have no problem with the risk. Nowhere did I say that no one should donate to indy projects. What I don't like is when operations that aren't really independent misrepresent themselves (and as I said before, Kickstarter's "indy" rep is a part of that) in order to crowdsource.
 
2013-05-09 04:30:18 PM
Cagey B:

And another thing. The only reason we know that it's an established company doing this is because unlikely did a little research. I couldn't find a reference to Eden anywhere on the Kickstarter page. So they're faking the appearance of some guy doing a startup out of his garage or whatever. If people still find it worth it to put their money towards this after knowing all the facts, then whatever, but if the money they were going to donate is meant to give non-traditional ventures a chance, then they should go elsewhere.

Not subby, but Albany ex-pat who is a very vague acquaintance of George (met him about a decade ago through a mutual friend);

a) You couldn't be arsed to click "Full Bio" on the kickstarter page? Because it's right there in great detail. This isn't a conspiracy to hide shiat.

b) Eden Studios has ONLY done card games and pen and paper RPGs up until this point. They're book and mechanics designers. All you get is a hardcover book with some nice art and layouts, or a deck of cards. The manufacturing and delivery of a tabletop game with tokens and counters and boards and a box is just not the same thing - and the kickstarter is for $12k, which I wouldn't be shocked to find out just covers a minimum run of items.

c) Eden Studios is a garage shop. It's George and whoever he has helping out at the time. They have no online store. They distribute directly to literally 28 comic book stores, they dont run through Diamond. Their physical office is basically Zombie Planet in Albany (which is my favorite game store so far).
 
2013-05-09 04:33:04 PM
Oh, agreed, though I want to hear just what's up with why Mr.  Vasilakos isn't going through Eden. I can think of legit reasons for doing so, though were I him I'd at least link to a personal web page from the Kickstarter page if possible and mention on that page what industry experience I have.

And I do think you might be a little mistaken about how well off Eden is at the moment (the industry is not doing well at all in general these days) but I don't have any figures to back my position up, part of why I'd like to know why he's going this route.
 
2013-05-09 04:33:53 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Oh, agreed, though I want to hear just what's up with why Mr.  Vasilakos isn't going through Eden. I can think of legit reasons for doing so, though were I him I'd at least link to a personal web page from the Kickstarter page if possible and mention on that page what industry experience I have.

And I do think you might be a little mistaken about how well off Eden is at the moment (the industry is not doing well at all in general these days) but I don't have any figures to back my position up, part of why I'd like to know why he's going this route.


Directed to  Cagey B
 
2013-05-09 04:35:24 PM
It's no Kingdom Death: Monster
 
2013-05-09 04:35:35 PM

evilmrsock: Cagey B:

And another thing. The only reason we know that it's an established company doing this is because unlikely did a little research. I couldn't find a reference to Eden anywhere on the Kickstarter page. So they're faking the appearance of some guy doing a startup out of his garage or whatever. If people still find it worth it to put their money towards this after knowing all the facts, then whatever, but if the money they were going to donate is meant to give non-traditional ventures a chance, then they should go elsewhere.

Not subby, but Albany ex-pat who is a very vague acquaintance of George (met him about a decade ago through a mutual friend);

a) You couldn't be arsed to click "Full Bio" on the kickstarter page? Because it's right there in great detail. This isn't a conspiracy to hide shiat.

b) Eden Studios has ONLY done card games and pen and paper RPGs up until this point. They're book and mechanics designers. All you get is a hardcover book with some nice art and layouts, or a deck of cards. The manufacturing and delivery of a tabletop game with tokens and counters and boards and a box is just not the same thing - and the kickstarter is for $12k, which I wouldn't be shocked to find out just covers a minimum run of items.

c) Eden Studios is a garage shop. It's George and whoever he has helping out at the time. They have no online store. They distribute directly to literally 28 comic book stores, they dont run through Diamond. Their physical office is basically Zombie Planet in Albany (which is my favorite game store so far).


Just noticed that was an active link, Damn I should learn not to Fark and semi-seriously debate things while on the clock.
 
2013-05-09 04:36:14 PM
I'm going to make a generous guess. Eden doesn't appear to be publishing this - Vasilakos looks like he's doing it on his own for a friend. Sure, he's using the skills he's got from running Eden, but this doesn't appear to be a corporate thing. That said, I wish it were a little more explicit as to where the money was going. I.e., who is going to profit from this? Eden, Vasilakos, or Francis? Or some combination of the above?

Regardless, it looks interesting.
 
2013-05-09 04:37:22 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: whereas start ups and/or indy publishers don't have the capital or the credit to raise that capital, so they use crowdsourcing. If one does not understand how a lot of this works one has not done one's due diligence; no matter what one would investing in or contributing to, such a person demonstrates he or she is too dumb to be making his or her own decisions.


I'm not sure where exaclty you're going with that ad hominem. So "indy" publishers never have the ability to raise funds without resorting to crowdsourcing? No tools are ever available to them? That's news to anyone alive before Kickstarter I suppose. And anyone who disagrees is a big dumb-head. Okay then.

Crotchrocket Slim: Sounds like you're just not feeling the indy game thing as much (or at least this one). Not saying that you're wrong in feeling this way either in this particular situation or in general, but unless there is misrepresentation involved it is rather douchey to flame others for contributing to the Kickstarter of a game they hope gets made.


If I'm flaming anyone, it's the people behind this game. And they deserve it. I'll admit to being mystified as to why someone would pick this particular project to donate to, but I'm not going to be all "stop liking what I don't like" to them.

Crotchrocket Slim: You're free to do your own research and even established companies have issues preventing them from taking advantage of credit etc. that aren't necessarily related to incompetence or dishonesty etc. A lot of times investors will attempt to pull the strings of their investees and a company would rather be more beholden to their direct customers (granted this is rare and best case scenario).


Yes. I'm aware that established companies don't have unlimited access to credit. I certainly appreciate your condescending assumption that only you have done research, though. Here's the thing, though. If your aim in starting something like this is to highlight projects that would not ordinarily get made except through nontraditional means, then it's a disservice to let efforts like the one here (I guess it's the "featured kickstarter" and everything) be featured alongside other projects. It sounds like you like the idea of getting funding to ventures that ordinarily wouldn't get it; why not prioritize to get the people who have the least ability to get credit? A genuine startup is going to have even more problems with generating capital than an existing company, even a crappy one.

Crotchrocket Slim: As for Eden, they're hardly EA, they have put out decent games in the past but are hardly industry juggernauts with cash falling out the buttocks,


No, they're not an industry juggernaut. But you see they've put out board games before. Why the hell can't they do it again with this game? Is it really that radical and visionary of an idea that it needs to be preserved from the horrible meddling of banks or investors? I don't buy for a second that this is somehow a project that will only see the light of day with crowdsourcing. This is a cynical attempt to improve the bottom line.
 
2013-05-09 04:43:56 PM

Cagey B: But you see they've put out board games before.


Name one.
 
2013-05-09 04:47:15 PM

MindStalker: bigbadideasinaction: Kickstarter should only offer these if the reward for contributing involves a share of profits.

Yeah, I wish more kickstarters offered a share of the profits model.  //Do any?


If you want to deal with these folks, sure:

wallstreetlaw.typepad.com
 
2013-05-09 04:47:21 PM

evilmrsock: Not subby, but Albany ex-pat who is a very vague acquaintance of George (met him about a decade ago through a mutual friend);

a) You couldn't be arsed to click "Full Bio" on the kickstarter page? Because it's right there in great detail. This isn't a conspiracy to hide shiat.


I'll admit, I didn't see the "full bio" link on the kickstarter page. Still, it would be nice to not have to go digging for that particular piece of information.

evilmrsock: b) Eden Studios has ONLY done card games and pen and paper RPGs up until this point. They're book and mechanics designers. All you get is a hardcover book with some nice art and layouts, or a deck of cards. The manufacturing and delivery of a tabletop game with tokens and counters and boards and a box is just not the same thing - and the kickstarter is for $12k, which I wouldn't be shocked to find out just covers a minimum run of items.


Huh. I had gotten the impression they'd done board games before. That changes things a little bit.

evilmrsock: c) Eden Studios is a garage shop. It's George and whoever he has helping out at the time. They have no online store. They distribute directly to literally 28 comic book stores, they dont run through Diamond. Their physical office is basically Zombie Planet in Albany (which is my favorite game store so far).


Okay. Fair point.
 
2013-05-09 04:51:20 PM

evilmrsock: Cagey B: But you see they've put out board games before.

Name one.


On the wiki, I saw that they were the people behind All Flesh Must Be Eaten, which I erroneously remembered being a board game (I think I might have confused it with "Zombies!", "Maul of America" or some such). So yes, I've got that point wrong.
 
2013-05-09 04:53:46 PM

Tax Boy: MindStalker: bigbadideasinaction: Kickstarter should only offer these if the reward for contributing involves a share of profits.

Yeah, I wish more kickstarters offered a share of the profits model.  //Do any?

If you want to deal with these folks, sure:

[wallstreetlaw.typepad.com image 370x278]


They passed a law last year that allowed for it. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324339204578173731988591 450.html
But the SEC is still hammering out the rules, its not legal yet.
 
2013-05-09 04:55:22 PM
Cagey B:
Okay. Fair point.

Sorry for being boxy, but I've had a fair amount of side time figuring out how to properly kickstart a tabletop game myself. It's an incredible pain in the ass to realize that mailing someone a roll of pennies is literally farking cheaper than getting tokens made when you're trying to make less than 10,000 sets.

So here's a hometown guy who seems to be doing this fairly low profile, and I have no interest in the product but would like to see him succeed. I actually think it really is quite in line with Kickstarter. Does he have a personal reason for not invoking his game studio? Dunno.

It's just a weird project to see install venom in someone. If anything, I think there's a BIGGER problem having kickstarter be only for people who have NEVER delivered on anything.
 
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