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(Huffington Post)   Zach Braff's Kickstarter goal was $2 million. Only a fraction of the $5 to $6 million budget, an "ass-ton" of which will come from his own pocket   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Zach Braff, Morgan Freeman, humans, Josh Hartnett, American Medical Association, Gavin Rossdale, Rob Thomas, Diane Kruger  
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4990 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 09 May 2013 at 11:16 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



69 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-05-09 11:04:43 AM  
And now that every other KickStarter I see is a big studio or big star trying to get suckers to fund what they could easily fund themselves, I basically consider KickStarter to be over.

I don't want to have to do an hour of diligence to figure out if the campaign I'm funding is the CW trying to bilk me.
 
2013-05-09 11:19:00 AM  
For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.
 
2013-05-09 11:21:17 AM  
My problem is the premise of the film doesn't really interest me. 

[shrug]
 
2013-05-09 11:25:48 AM  
I'm setting up a KickStarter for a film I'm working on. It will be a sort of thematic prequel to Black Swan, set on a high school pep squad, staring Ariel Winter and Annasophia Robb.
 
2013-05-09 11:29:16 AM  
Here's the thing I don't get about Kickstarter Rage: It's not like this is just a complete charity thing. You're getting stuff for your money. Either a copy of the game/movie when it comes out, or some kind of inside look at the making, or a t-shirt....something. Whether or not the something you get for the price point is a good deal is up for debate, of course, but welcome to the free market.

It's not about people being suckers. If it's something that interests you, that you want to support, that will then give you back some kind of  unique item or experience in return for your financial support...what does it matter if it's from a Hollywood studio or the crazy homeless guy in the park? Kickstarter is just a tool to enable this unique give and take between creator and consumer to occur.
 
2013-05-09 11:31:22 AM  

unlikely: And now that every other KickStarter I see is a big studio or big star trying to get suckers to fund what they could easily fund themselves, I basically consider KickStarter to be over.

I don't want to have to do an hour of diligence to figure out if the campaign I'm funding is the CW trying to bilk me.


I don't care if it's people with money or not... if Kickstarter gives us a way to tell the boardroom jackasses what we actually want made, then I'm all for it.
 
2013-05-09 11:31:56 AM  

DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.


Me neither. Do the same people get upset when other folks by oil company stock?
 
2013-05-09 11:33:28 AM  

Kyosuke: DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.

Me neither. Do the same people get upset when other folks by oil company stock?


Yes, also telling people you own tobacco company or gun company stock set some people into a rage.
 
2013-05-09 11:33:33 AM  

unlikely: And now that every other KickStarter I see is a big studio or big star trying to get suckers to fund what they could easily fund themselves, I basically consider KickStarter to be over.


Is kickstarter some zero-sum game? Is there some preset limit to the available funds? Is it not possible for other just as worthy projects to be funded?
 
2013-05-09 11:34:37 AM  

DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.


Here are a few of the arguments:
1) If Zach Braff wanted to make "his own" $6 million movie, he could have used the (estimated) $20 million he's worth to do it without begging for money from people without $20M in the bank
2) This and the Veronica Mars movie will encourage major studios to partially/wholly fund future movies this way
3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people

Take it for what it's worth... yes, contributions were voluntary, so it's not like he committed fraud.  But one could argue he's taking advantage, kinda sorta.  I don't particularly care all that much, either.
 
2013-05-09 11:35:07 AM  
The fact that Braff is a big-name actor with a bult-in fan base

He is? Ok.
 
2013-05-09 11:35:54 AM  

hp6sa: 1) If Zach Braff wanted to make "his own" $6 million movie, he could have used the (estimated) $20 million he's worth to do it without begging for money from people without $20M in the bank


So rich people can never raise money for anything? Is that a general rule now?

hp6sa: 2) This and the Veronica Mars movie will encourage major studios to partially/wholly fund future movies this way


Ok. And? If it works, what's the problem?

hp6sa: 3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people


Braff probably couldn't get money from a studio to make this movie, so he's going here.
 
2013-05-09 11:38:41 AM  

DamnYankees: So rich people can never raise money for anything? Is that a general rule now?


No, but neither is "nobody is allowed to biatch about this on the Internet if it keeps happening"
 
2013-05-09 11:39:32 AM  

BunkoSquad: DamnYankees: So rich people can never raise money for anything? Is that a general rule now?

No, but neither is "nobody is allowed to biatch about this on the Internet if it keeps happening"


I'm fine with biatching about stuff on the internet, but it should at least be for a good reason.
 
2013-05-09 11:41:11 AM  

DamnYankees: BunkoSquad: DamnYankees: So rich people can never raise money for anything? Is that a general rule now?

No, but neither is "nobody is allowed to biatch about this on the Internet if it keeps happening"

I'm fine with biatching about stuff on the internet, but it should at least be for a good reason.


NO IT SHOULDN'T, DAMN IT!
 
2013-05-09 11:48:43 AM  
hp6sa: 3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people

Braff probably couldn't get money from a studio to make this movie, so he's going here.



Or he didn't want to go to a studio. There's a certain attractiveness to having complete control over your project. I see nothing wrong with people with a higher profile using Kickstarter to get their projects made.
 
2013-05-09 11:51:16 AM  
you get stuff about the movie and what not, if you are a fan of him it is a pretty cool way to connect

I ain't even mad.

the movie is a bit more personal if you get involved with its production.
 
2013-05-09 11:57:16 AM  
Is one of the reach goals buying him a razor?
 
2013-05-09 12:00:57 PM  
Melissa Joan Hart is trying to do the same thing, but she's failing miserably:

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/318676760/darcis-walk-of-shame/

Please remember that everyone who pledges gets something in return.  Think of it more as pre-ordering the movie, or getting a special award that would not otherwise be an option.  For example, for $1,000 you get to attend the after-party with the cast and crew.  I can assure you, I would never be able to do that otherwise.
 
2013-05-09 12:01:26 PM  
The major studios could take to Kickstarter to crowdfund, say, $2 million, of their summer blockbuster budgets.  Could be an interesting marketing ploy and fan experience.
 
2013-05-09 12:02:01 PM  
And we get a Kickstarter hipster right out of the gate. Impressive; it usually takes at least a half dozen posts before we get the "I liked Kickstarter before they were popular" folks.
 
2013-05-09 12:12:32 PM  
Wait, isn't this where we hate on Zach Braff for some reason or other?
 
2013-05-09 12:20:13 PM  

Lee's_Austin: The major studios could take to Kickstarter to crowdfund, say, $2 million, of their summer blockbuster budgets.  Could be an interesting marketing ploy and fan experience.


If they had perks like letting you go to an afterparty with RDJ or being an extra they'd get a ton of press and raise at least 5 million.
 
2013-05-09 12:29:29 PM  
I really don't have a problem with celebrities worth millions using Kickstarter to fund vanity projects--at least not as much as others do. I just wish they had a little more pride than to actually DO it. You could get free food at a soup kitchen if you wanted but most of us have enough decency not to.

If celebrities want touse Kickstarter they should at least instruct potential donors not give more than $10 or so, enough to call their contribution a "preorder." Then they can use that activity to get studios to front the rest of the money like people with a bunch of money usually do. If you desperately MUST use average viewers to raise funds for your film, at least auction off your top-tier perks. You'll probably make more money that way anyway.
 
2013-05-09 12:30:49 PM  

DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.


Same, and for all the complaining people have about how Hollywood is just after the bucks and puts out garbage, this type of approach could remove the 'suits' from having any say in movies,  I like that.
 
2013-05-09 12:36:18 PM  

Kyosuke: Is it not possible for other just as worthy projects to be funded?


Absolutely possible.

But the other Kickstarter thread in the green queue is a guy who runs a successful game publishing house saying "fund this project this guy designed and I'll publish his game."

What I don't like is needing to do a half an hour of research to figure out if I'm funding a real start-up artist trying to get their first commercial success or just subsidizing another major publishing house/network/studio in their next project.
 
2013-05-09 12:38:01 PM  

space1999: Please remember that everyone who pledges gets something in return.


Yeah, also not this.

Everyone who pledges gets PROMISED something in return. In my experience, it's about 50/50 whether you actually get anything.
 
2013-05-09 12:39:15 PM  

DamnYankees: hp6sa: 1) If Zach Braff wanted to make "his own" $6 million movie, he could have used the (estimated) $20 million he's worth to do it without begging for money from people without $20M in the bank

So rich people can never raise money for anything? Is that a general rule now?

hp6sa: 2) This and the Veronica Mars movie will encourage major studios to partially/wholly fund future movies this way

Ok. And? If it works, what's the problem?

hp6sa: 3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people

Braff probably couldn't get money from a studio to make this movie, so he's going here.


Yeah, this is basically how I feel about it. Nobody makes a movie these days with their own pocket money, they get the money from someone else. Normally it's a studio (who expect a return on the box office), this time it's Zach's fans (who get to see his movie made and/or whatever other Kickstarter goodie he offers).

The only thing I can sort of see people getting upset about is that he stands to make more money than if he pitched it to a studio, since he would be getting a larger personal cut of the movie's profits. But still, he isn't lying about where the money is going and nobody is being forced to donate.

Did he pitch it to a studio and get denied? Or did he go straight to kickstarter? I honestly don't know.
 
2013-05-09 12:53:17 PM  
2 million is 1/3 of a 6 million dollar budget. And 1/3 is a fraction. He is technically correct. The best kind if correct.
 
2013-05-09 12:59:21 PM  
 
2013-05-09 01:05:01 PM  

bigbadideasinaction: A good take on the whole bullshiat of studios using kickstarter


I disagree with the way you use the term 'good'
 
2013-05-09 01:23:12 PM  

bigbadideasinaction: A good take on the whole bullshiat of studios using kickstarter


Wow, that article contains more concentrated butthurt than a week's worth of the Politics tab.
 
2013-05-09 01:53:04 PM  
It's the ideal business model: risking other people's money while taking all the reward.
 
2013-05-09 01:56:07 PM  

hp6sa: DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.

Here are a few of the arguments:
1) If Zach Braff wanted to make "his own" $6 million movie, he could have used the (estimated) $20 million he's worth to do it without begging for money from people without $20M in the bank
2) This and the Veronica Mars movie will encourage major studios to partially/wholly fund future movies this way
3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people

Take it for what it's worth... yes, contributions were voluntary, so it's not like he committed fraud.  But one could argue he's taking advantage, kinda sorta.  I don't particularly care all that much, either.


I mean I don't necessarily think you're wrong for not being interested in supporting Braff's project for the reasons you state (personally I'm just not feeling the project plus yes, I agree that he probably could score funding on his own without going to the public), but being "worth" $20 million doesn't mean he has that gathering dust in a checking account. That includes things his money is tied up in like real estate, stock, businesses he is otherwise invested in etc. Sure he might have to liquidate something if he really, really wanted this made but it's not like he's got $20 mil he can just blow a year (especially now that he's not Mr. Sitcom Star anymore).
 
2013-05-09 01:59:54 PM  
Who is up for some kickstarter chicken?
 
2013-05-09 02:13:34 PM  

hp6sa: DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.

Here are a few of the arguments:
1) If Zach Braff wanted to make "his own" $6 million movie, he could have used the (estimated) $20 million he's worth to do it without begging for money from people without $20M in the bank
2) This and the Veronica Mars movie will encourage major studios to partially/wholly fund future movies this way
3) Asking for money when you have access to major studio money isn't in the spirit of Kickstarter - funding for projects that would never get attention from major money people

Take it for what it's worth... yes, contributions were voluntary, so it's not like he committed fraud.  But one could argue he's taking advantage, kinda sorta.  I don't particularly care all that much, either.


A fool and their money are easily parted.

Or maybe Zack Braff held a gun to these people's heads.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:31 PM  

Ray_Finkle: 2 million is 1/3 of a 6 million dollar budget. And 1/3 is a fraction. He is technically correct. The best kind if correct.


He won't be able to put that entire 2 mill towards the film budget - some of it will go towards fees (kickstarter, credit cards, etc), and a chunk will go towards the items promised to each donator.

My guess is that the funds raised for this are less about funding the budget, and more about getting publicity and building a known audience.  That'll help him when he's trying to convince other actors to take a part, advertisers, etc.
 
2013-05-09 03:21:19 PM  

DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.


We live in a society where most of us derive our sense of satisfaction from getting pissed off about something.

In other words, being unhappy makes us happy.
 
2013-05-09 03:27:14 PM  
And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.
 
2013-05-09 03:33:51 PM  

EyeballKid: And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.


People who hate on Amanda Palmer because some folks willingly volunteered to play music with her and didn't get paid for it are idiots.
 
2013-05-09 03:39:04 PM  

Teufelaffe: bigbadideasinaction: A good take on the whole bullshiat of studios using kickstarter

Wow, that article contains more concentrated butthurt than a week's worth of the Politics tab.


Russky: bigbadideasinaction: A good take on the whole bullshiat of studios using kickstarter

I disagree with the way you use the term 'good'



Kristen bell won't sleep with you no matter how much you white knight her on fark, sorry.
 
2013-05-09 03:42:17 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.

People who hate on Amanda Palmer because some folks willingly volunteered to play music with her and didn't get paid for it are idiots.


She won't sleep with you, dude, even if you volunteer for free.
 
2013-05-09 03:46:00 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.

People who hate on Amanda Palmer because some folks willingly volunteered to play music with her and didn't get paid for it are idiots.


The thing about playing in Chuck Berry's band was that even with someone as terrible as Chuck Berry is they always had money in their pocket in addition to saying that they backed up Chuck Berry for a night when he came through.

When Bootsy played for James Brown and they worked out a riff it was still James' tune, but you'd better believe that at the end of the run everyone was getting paid.  They might have been fined here and there, but they was getting paid!

Which is why Amanda Palmer is such a despicable person for being willing to do what she did.  She might as well ask who wants to wash her laundry, fill up the tank on the tour van or buy her dinner.  It's predatory and disingenuous and illustrates a glaring level of arrogance and unwillingness to appreciate her fans by taking advantage of them.
 
2013-05-09 03:47:22 PM  
Either give me a cut of your profits or stfu.
 
2013-05-09 03:53:06 PM  

space1999: Melissa Joan Hart is trying to do the same thing, but she's failing miserably:

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/318676760/darcis-walk-of-shame/

Please remember that everyone who pledges gets something in return.  Think of it more as pre-ordering the movie, or getting a special award that would not otherwise be an option.  For example, for $1,000 you get to attend the after-party with the cast and crew.  I can assure you, I would never be able to do that otherwise.


...How much to rub one out in Clarissa's hair?
 
2013-05-09 03:57:53 PM  

EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.

People who hate on Amanda Palmer because some folks willingly volunteered to play music with her and didn't get paid for it are idiots.

She won't sleep with you, dude, even if you volunteer for free.


You sure about that?  She's a Crazy Artist Chick™ who gets naked and lets drunk Germans draw on her (pic is actually SFW).


bigbadideasinaction: Kristen bell won't sleep with you no matter how much you white knight her on fark, sorry.


Sorry, but that was one of the most whiny articles I've ever read.  They could have replaced the whole thing with "IT'S NOT FAAAAIIIIRRRR!!!" and it would have been about the same.
 
2013-05-09 04:03:25 PM  

EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: And the film's soundtrack will be recorded by Amanda Palmer and a bunch of schlubs who are thrilled to have the privilege of having played for Amanda Palmer.

People who hate on Amanda Palmer because some folks willingly volunteered to play music with her and didn't get paid for it are idiots.

She won't sleep with you, dude, even if you volunteer for free.


Oh look, a "white knighting" accusation.  How unexpected and original.

ProTip: If you want to get paid to do something, don't volunteer to do it for free.  Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer.  Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?
 
2013-05-09 04:15:23 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?


Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?
 
2013-05-09 04:27:11 PM  

Kyosuke: DamnYankees: For the life of me I don't understand why people are upset with him for this. No one's forcing anyone to donate anything.

Me neither. Do the same people get upset when other folks by oil company stock?


Apparently some do.

I'm pretty neutral on this. Good for him doing it but he seems just a tad defensive when he has no reason to be.

Hope it goes well regardless.

Saw him on CFerguson a few months back and it was damned funny. He and Craig acted together in an unsold pilot 20 years back.
 
2013-05-09 04:27:40 PM  

EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?


Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.
 
2013-05-09 04:52:24 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.


As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.
 
2013-05-09 05:47:40 PM  

Skarekrough: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.

As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.


Oh sorry, I was unaware that Ms. Palmer kidnapped each and every one of those musicians, held a gun to their heads, and threatened to kill them if they didn't perform.

It's very simple: They knew the score before going in.  To then turn around and act like they were owed more than what they already agreed to makes them greedy assholes.  They could have always just said "no" to begin with, so they have absolutely zero place to complain when they got exactly what they were offered and agreed to.  The overdeveloped sense of entitlement I've seen arise from that whole situation is just farking retarded.

"I agreed to do something for no pay and then I didn't get paid! WAAAAA!!"
 
2013-05-09 05:53:41 PM  
Wasn't there some rich woman who was running a kickstarter for her daughter so that she could learn how to make video games?
 
2013-05-09 05:57:52 PM  
Palmer sometimes says and does things online that make it hard to defend her, but I have to say that I would have been thrilled to play in that band. I would also be happy to play left field for The Twins or moderate a presidential debate for free. I liked the idea of saving the opportunity for fans. We don't have to agree on this, but it seems like this view is underrepresented in Kickstarter threads. I'm arguing on the internet. What could go wrong?
 
2013-05-09 06:15:41 PM  

Arthen: Either give me a cut of your profits or stfu.


Not currently legal.  He's addressed this in one of the many interviews he's done on the subject.  He would like to, but Federal law currently makes this illegal.  Was supposed to get resolved recently, but wasn't (forgetting why).
 
2013-05-09 06:15:44 PM  
Imokaywiththis.jpg

It's not like it's taxes and you have to pay.
 
2013-05-09 06:50:39 PM  
Isn't that whole thing a catch 22?

Some guy asks for 2 or 4 mil $ on kickstarter to make a movie, either:

- no one knows him or what he's capable of, chances are he's an amateur, no way you're going to spend money on something so risky/random
- you know him and perhaps liked something he did. Chances are, then, that he's famous and thus has already got money. Why give to him?

It's really amusing considering the number of game studios no one has ever heard of ever which managed to raise millions for special magic adventure games that will supposedly look better than anything done before as well as give the players free b-jobs as achievements. It never raised such a ruckus.

More seriously, one should just check the article linked on fark about the Dungeons and Dragons movie to see where the "studio money" really goes and the kind of winning team studio execs hire nowadays. If you think Braff's project really stands any kind of chance with a studio, you're 12. Only people like Mallick can pull this off after a looooong career and enough awards.
 
2013-05-09 06:52:20 PM  

Herbie555: Not currently legal.


It's perfectly legal, it just requires that you follow the rules we set up for investments. Which he doesn't want to do.

That's an unreasonable choice on his part -- there's lots of overhead involved -- but it's inaccurate to claim it would be "illegal" to accept investments in and share profits from a business enterprise.
 
2013-05-09 06:59:11 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement


She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.
 
2013-05-09 08:01:52 PM  

profplump: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement

She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.


OK, so who has the greater sense of entitlement, the person asking for others to work for free, or the people who agree to work for free then demand payment after the work is done?
 
2013-05-09 08:19:50 PM  

Skarekrough: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.

As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.


Anyone who does work that does not pay a straight guaranteed salary can sympathize with this point of view. And as easy as it is to blame her, you should really be mad at the musicians who agreed to be exploited (yes, exploited) like this.

Number 1 rule for anyone who wants a serious career in a creative field: DON'T WORK FOR FREE! I don't care if you love the artist, if you think this would be a great experience, or if you just really want to hug Amanda Palmer. If your work is good enough to get someone else paid you get yourself paid.

And you don't necessarily do it for yourself but for the other aspiring professionals trying to eke out some semblance of a living using what is usually their only marketable skill. When you undervalue yourself--especially on such a high level--you undervalue everybody else. You make it that much easier for the next greedy bastard who doesn't want to pay for work to say, "Well I can get these guys for the price of a couple of beers." It's why so many novices are afraid to or don't know how to ask for compensation, no matter how much time they sacrificed for the work.

Still, those musicians signed up for that. They only have themselves to blame if they have a hard time finding paying work in the future.
 
2013-05-10 12:30:34 AM  

unlikely: space1999: Please remember that everyone who pledges gets something in return.

Yeah, also not this.

Everyone who pledges gets PROMISED something in return. In my experience, it's about 50/50 whether you actually get anything.


Uh.. wow, seriously? I've backed about three dozen projects and have yet to be stiffed. Some stuff has taken a while, a couple have taken over a year, but I've yet to get zip. Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but if it was really 50% I think Kickstarter would already be dead.
 
2013-05-10 12:35:11 AM  
Here's the thing. Garden State cost 2.5 and made 27.  Based on that and his dedicated fans (Scrubs has a particularly loyal following, even in syndication) he could have easily secured between 5-6 in financing.  That is assuming that the script is makeable for that number, he acts as well as directs, and he can get a few B-listers to work cheap.  Those are all logical assumptions.

So why Kickstarter? It's not final cut, that's a crock of shiat. At that budgetary level giving the filmmaker creative control is the norm. As an investor you are making a bet that the artist you are backing is the real deal. Last thing you want to do is to cause the investment to fail.  No, there is an entirely different reason for kickstarter.

Ego.  It's all about Braff vampiring the money and adulation of his fans.  And that is sad both for him and his investors.
 
2013-05-10 12:44:37 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: profplump: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement

She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.

OK, so who has the greater sense of entitlement, the person asking for others to work for free, or the people who agree to work for free then demand payment after the work is done?


This is the heart of your argument, however it is flawed and dishonest.  This whole controversy had nothing at all to do with the musicians who had performed with her retroactively seeking payment.  That's a total straw man.

The issue was raised by creatives of all types across the country, people who objected to the exploitation of fans for her benefit.  Lose the straw man and make an argument on it's merits. To do otherwise is sad and pathetic.
 
2013-05-10 01:24:02 AM  
Lighten up. This is just a high tech upgrade to something indie filmmakers have done since independent films have existed. Just, instead of holding pitch parties for people they know who may have money, they do the pitch online.

I can't fault Braff for this.

For those of you complaining that he should fund the whole thing himself, look at Francis Coppola.
Sure, he put up his house as collateral to finish Apocalypse Now, but how many times has he nearly gone broke?
Godfather III only exists because he was a gnat's pube away from bankruptcy.
 
2013-05-10 08:00:15 AM  
I don't particularly care if he does this, but also do not plan to fund his kickstarter. There are HUNDREDS yea THOUSANDS of kickstarter projects I am also not funding.

Does this make me a bad person?
 
2013-05-10 10:27:05 AM  

Wellon Dowd: I'm setting up a KickStarter for a film I'm working on. It will be a sort of thematic prequel to Black Swan, set on a high school pep squad, staring Ariel Winter and Annasophia Robb.


Pledge $1 or more1,934 backers

I put that thought into your head didn't I?  Isn't that at least worth $1?

Estimated delivery: Jun 2013
 
2013-05-10 11:47:12 AM  
IMO, it's against the spirit of kickstarter or any other indie-style "investment" site. I thought it was for people that needed the money just to make the thing possible, not increase the profit margin for rich farks.
 I feel bad for any people trying to break into the biz if you're going to have people like this pushing them down.
 
2013-05-10 12:07:43 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: IMO, it's against the spirit of kickstarter or any other indie-style "investment" site. I thought it was for people that needed the money just to make the thing possible, not increase the profit margin for rich farks.
 I feel bad for any people trying to break into the biz if you're going to have people like this pushing them down.


Well, unless someone makes "Starstarter", I guess they still have to go this route.

Again, I'm not sure of what the issue is here.   He wanted to see if the fans were willing to "back" the movie.    If you look at the "perks" you get at each level, you are getting a fairly decent "deal" back for your contribution to the production.

There is also his explanation here : "  I was about to sign a typical financing deal in order to get the money to make "Wish I Was Here," my follow up to "Garden State." It would have involved making a lot of sacrifices I think would have ultimately hurt the film. "

Which makes sense... when you get money from a big studio... they are going to have all sorts of stipulations about what can be done, etc.   This way... he can make the movie his way, and people who are fans of his will trust that he'll do a good job.

IMO, I don't see this as "Taking away" from other projects on KS... if anything, it brings people to KS to look at other stuff that might not even have been too aware of KS.   I think this is just a bunch of people whining that they didn't reach their $5k level for their crappy "concept album".
 
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